I had a VW Rabbit "L" in high school. It taught me a lot of mechanical stuff that I wouldn't have learned on a reliable car. So, I guess they're good for something.

New VWs? Ask someone about window regulators and coilpacks.

Also, all VW owners are emo fags. Sorry, it's just a fact. Bring on the flamage.

/drives a Subaru, passes a lot of emo fag VW drivers.

Have owned 4 veedubs in my life, including my current. Never had any mechanical issues outside of a window regulator (holds up windows in doors) being replaced under warranty. Plan on buying another later this month to replace the wife's POS camry. The key to a VW and any other german car... DO NOT ignore the scheduled maintenance (whether you do it or have a mechanic do it). Everyone has a horror story based on whatever make/model, cars are pretty complex machines that we generally beat the snot out of.

bubbaprog:

Fram filters are made by Mann. I bought a Fram at Walmart and opened it up, right on top says Made in Germany with Mann as the manufacturer.

Fram filters are made by Mann. I bought a Fram at Walmart and opened it up, right on top says Made in Germany with Mann as the manufacturer
This does not mean they are the same filter. Mann is a huge company, they make filters for different companies and applications. Just because Fram contracts Mann to make their oil filters, does not mean they are produced to the same standards as the Mann labelled filter.

Anybody complaining about VWs reliability doesn't understand maintenence.

Yes, there were problems with coilpacks and window regulators in the 2000-2003 models, but if you go to a VW dealer with either of these problems (regardless of how long ago your warranty expired) they'll fix it for free.

VW engines will last forever if properly maintained. I just got my new(to me) 1986 8v Golf back up and running after the previous owner had neglected it... it has 213k on the clock with the odometer broken for the previous two owners. I bought it for $350.

/is building a hybrid 16v ABA turbo for it
//will run 11s

Well the tdi's are really reliable, the only people that really hate them are people that don't do required matainence (do the timing belt every 80k) or have half assed techs work on them. The TDI do require a special castrol oil for the newer pumpe duse engines (diesel injectors are in the heads). My friend that is a vw mechanic hates touraegs, to do anything like starter, o2 sensor or transmission work, the WHOLE subframe, suspension, transmission, engine has to come out at once. Also they are spendy for oil changes because they require alot of oil. Around his shop they have a saying called a "touraeg bath". They have a huge drain plug and since they have a lot of oil in it, your gaurenteed to get drenched changing it. My roomates gf just bough a 98 jetter with a 2.0 and a stick, excellent gas mileage and even easier than my friends honda accord to work on.

I have a 2000 Jetta GLX. Bought it new because I loved the look, and we had an '84 that lasted forever. Consumer reports said VW reliability sucked, but I was hell-bent and had money. I actually got lucky- I didn't get a lemon.

However, windows did fall into the doors 3x (2 replaced under recall, VW repaid me for the other one), once even after it had been "fixed". Sucks to have no window in the rain and snow. A couple other things were recalled by VW.

Had the same coil pack problem mentioned above. Actually, it was coil pack+wires. Replaced the wires, and plastidipped the pack, which surprisingly worked.

As I said, I got lucky. But I'll only buy a VW again if I have enough money for expensive repairs. And a backup car.

VWs are some of the least expensive cars to maintain and service.

For example, my sister has a 2000 Civic and she had to get a replacement rear-view mirror. Even a USED one cost $45. On the other hand, a replacement rear-view mirror (With motor) for VW Jetta costs about $25.

One reason for this is that the Mk3 Jetta was produced for 6.5 years, whereas the average Honda is produced for 1-2 years. This means that there are a wide range of replacement parts available for Mk3 VWs.


VWs are also some of the easiest cars to work on.

I have replaced my own shocks/struts/springs, cleaned the throttle body, install sway bars, changed belts, etc. Everything on my Jetta seems to be laid-out in a straightforward way which is easy to service.

Both VWs I've owned have been farking incredible cars. If your VW didn't perform as expected, then it's likely you're a sorority girl driving a stupid-ass Jetta who thinks "tune-up" is a euphemism for what the GDX house did all over your back at last week's homecoming party.

derekste, I'm not even talking about preventable problems, tell me why dead coilpacks and window regulators aren't really a problem? If it has to go to the dealer, that's a problem. It's time out of your day, and just adds to the general hassle of everyday life. Who needs it?

OK, I agree that the engine in my Rabbit was still running well when I dumped it, but that's after 4 new shocks & struts, all four wheel bearings, a new alternator (left me stranded), and a master cylinder that locked up all four brakes at once. My perforated accelerator pump couldn't be replaced because apparently Germany didn't bother to send them to the States, ever. Piece of junk, I tell ya!

Never before has a submitter been more deserving of a "golf" clap. Bravo.

derekste
They don't always replace coilpacks free. My 2000 appeared to have the same problems/symptoms (and was fixed with the same hack). Dealership (and website) said mine wasn't covered.

I think a problem is that people are confusing decent 80s models (like our old one) with crappy 99-0whatever ones.

MyrnaMinkoff: you're a sorority girl driving a stupid-ass Jetta who thinks "tune-up" is a euphemism for what the GDX house did all over your back at last week's homecoming party.


Now that's hot.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I thought the autonomous driving bit was quite interesting.

2005-10-10 02:27:49 PM bubbaprog


dan86turbo: I think German cars get a bad rap for reliability as they're not as tolerant of ignorant owners ignoring maintenance schedules as are other makes.

Well, that and there's a huge difference between the OEM German parts and the crap you get at a local lube place. OEM German oil filters are rated at 15,000 km. Fram or whatever crap you get here in the States last about 5,000.

Thus I keep a stack of MANN oil filters and a bag of those copper plug washers in my garage at all times.


Nice... you and me both. Just got a stack of oversized Mann filters in the mail from ECS Tuning (awesome source for cheap OEM Audi/VW parts for those of you who work on your own cars). All parts in my 60k were OEM as well. Tired of people biatching about the quality of a product when they refuse to pay money for a good one. Gee... I wonder why your $5 portable CD player broke... maybe because it cost $5?

/steps off soapbox... again

Oh, I forgot about the dry rotted speakers, and leaky window seals.

The springs actually broke (how does that happen, anyway?) and consequently the shocks were blown from riding too low.

The heater was a complete joke.

It needed 4 new CV joints (replaced both axles, it's easier that way).

But, yeah, it sure was easy to work on, and I got lots of practice.

This little fella's just been dying to get his picture in the thread...

Is this the same race that that guy with 2 Hummers was in?

PWNED

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I haven't heard anyone mention the crap that had a tendency to leak out of late '90s and early '00s door panels and all over unhappy driveways everywhere. I had a couple friends (one with a New Beetle and the other with a Jetta) that had what was supposedly goo from sound deadening material leaking out of the doors and onto the ground.

When shopping for new cars a couple years ago, I looked into VW, but found them underpowered, overpriced, and hyped almost as hard as my Mac. Got leather, more ponies, and LONG warranty out of a new Hundai at a price a VW dealer would have laughed at me for suggesting for anything other than a bone-stock car. Have no buyer's remorse for my Hyundai and I even have the trendy blue dashboard lights. IMO, VW is just another quasi-luxury carmaker (like Subaru and Nissan) riding the wave of yuppie love.

Also, nothing is funnier than watching my neighbor leave, late for work, in his Jetta TDI on a cold morning and listening to the Mini-Me equivalent of a real diesel sputter to life and belch black smoke out of the parking lot.

VW = Germany's equivalent of Saturn -- Meh.

BTW... this is my first. Fark. post. ever.

/insert obligatory Sarah Connor kitten killing while asking for forgiveness from the FSM here

I have a '91 Honda Accord SE. Power Windows, Leather Seats, Sun/Moon roof etc.. The thing has 275,000 miles on it and it's still running strong!

Honda > everything else.

Visit http://www.GasGouging.com and find out what the petroleum companies don't want you to know!

@ clevershark

Fiero, a lemon? The '84s were unreliable (first year of production), but I know people with Fieros from 85-88 with 200k-300k miles with nothing but routine maintenance. The body is plastic so it doesn't rust. My '88 Fiero GT runs perfect today, it has 40,000 miles on it and its had the rotor cap, ignition coil, ignition module, and the shocks replaced (replaced shocks with Koni adjustables). Everything that has been changed has been routine maintenance.

The people that complain VWs are bad cars, also probly think AOL is a great ISP. Or INternet Explorer is fine compared to Firefox or Opera. They only hear the complains of VW owners and thier problems, yet never have owned one themselves and taken car of it.

"Let see how far I can drive without an oil change... 30,000? THese cars suck!"

I have owned or driven a VW all of my life. From Diesel Rabbits, Sirracco's, Jetta's and Passats. One thing most people dont realise is that VW uses the same engine block for both thier diesal cars and unleaded cars (if you don't understand the point of that last fact, Diesal engine blocks are put under a lot more pressure during operation.

Typically, since I am poor, Have driving VWs taht were more then 10 years old, and often had in excess of 125,000 miles on them. These things are cheap and easy to repair compared to more anything out there in the market. Just resently i replaced all four shocks in my car and the parts only cost $80 total. THe timing belt went out on my passat and I ended up replacing the engine with a used one for under $3000. (including labor.. i did't do that one myself)

These are cars you can run into the ground, put back together, and run them into the ground some more. In fact I am driving a 1988 VW Jetta right now with 150,000 miles on it. and the only thing wrong with it right now is there is a valve that is stuck and won't blow air thruogh the heater.

Oh and as far as taht link to a Consumers report about reliabilityof cars, they only convered 1997-2004 cars, and were done by phone interveiws with owners. No offense, but wouldn't mechanics be the best judge of problems with cars?

Fiero, a lemon?

Lemon or not, they look cool. So do Triumph TR's.

FARTHEST

I had a 1990 VW Jetta that lived forever. Exhuast rusted through, but that's normal after 173k, right?

My dad bought a new 2004 Passat Wagon that had a hole in the windshield washer fluid reservoir when he got it. And it took the damn dealer three times to get the clutch adjusted correctly.

In short: Quality has gone down, because most of them are made in Mexico.

But still, they're the only cars that, until recently, you could get with a diesel in America.

I thought of this video first:

i think it's funny how the vw people are saying "mine had 125k miles and no problems... vw is awesome!"

my old POS subaru loyale was still running when i sold it. it had 275k miles on it. replaced the clutch once at 260k miles. all it had wrong when i sold it was a wheel bearing was starting to go, gummed up fuel pump, and an exhaust leak (the results of a little unplanned offroading)

quarterback_punk

Say what you will about VW, but they make some fantastic engines. I have a 2001 GTI with the 1.8T engine. I've had the windows fall down more times than I can count, crap ooze out of the door on warm days, windshield wipers stop moving, just to name a few things. And the service at my dealership is the worst I've ever experienced (www.vincentsucks.com).

Having said all that, the car is an absolute blast to drive. It's pretty good stock, with a very torque-y turbo program that gives you a plenty of kick throughout the RPM band. I've gone the extra mile and added an aftermarket chip as well as a few other bolt-on enhancements, so it's putting out well over 200HP and 240 ft-lbs. It's loads of fun. The only things comparable in size, price, and power would be a WRX or Neon SRT-4. I'll never own a Neon again, and my wife has a WRX, so until something else comes along, I'm going to stick with the pocket rocket.

Tinton: Fiero, a lemon? The '84s were unreliable (first year of production)

Well then my uncle must have had an 84 model. That's why I wouldn't even think of buying a first-year GM product, to a much greater extent than for another manufacturer.

I love how everyone is like;

"My (fill in name of <$1000 car) ran perfect all I had to was replace the timing belt, brakes, clutch, motor, wheels, seats, water pump, fetzer valve (ball-bearing), crankshaft, fuel pump radiator...But other than that, it RAN PERFECT!"

cars are like kids, when they are our own, they're great, no matter what.

I think Volkswagen is German for "Can you give me a ride to work?"

I think the Jettas are made in Mexico. My 2001 GTI is from Brazil. Some of the other models and special editions are still made in Germany. In any case, I think it's still debatable whether or not that has any bearing on the quality of the vehicle itself.

fatladysings: I also don't envy you Touareg owners...$90 for an oil change?!?

$90? Do they have to remove the engine to get to the oil filter, or what?

2006 Passat

I think 'Passat' means "Chick Car" in German.

Touareg

Taureg means "You can sleep in it" in German. Which is good since you'll probably have to.

What could possibly go wrong?

/Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet!
//Boobies!

Touareg actually is the name of some African tribe, I believe.

kerosene: Touareg actually is the name of some African tribe, I believe.

It's true. I saw it in the movie "Sahara". They must be right, right?

improvius
I may not have clearly made my point about shopping for cars. I was talking about comparing their the bottom-end cars (base Golf, Jetta, New Beetle) to others I'd researched, not $20k sports-sedans or hatchbacks which were frankly outside of my budget at the time. The GTI is an orange in the bushel of apples I'm talking about. Given the option, there are better cars for the money.

I've driven a Passat with the 1.8T engine and have to say it was quite fun -- probably quicker in a GTI. I've also spent some seat time in a mildly-rodded WRX and have done things in that car that would make a sorority girl moist. I'd agree that the 1.8T is a ton of fun, but the SRT-4, WRX, GTI are all $20k+ can't be compared with base-model cars that are underpowered and overly trendy when stacked up against like cars from Asia or the US.

You don't have to defend your car to me or anyone else. Living in a yuppie paradise, I see plenty of Jettas, GTIs and I'm sure the local dealer's service department isn't hurting for business. Having seen that, I went in another direction and won't ever regret NOT wasting my money on a "cheap" Volkswagen.

Cripes, this thread is getting way too serious.

@ clevershark

I'll NEVER buy a first year car, EVER. First year is basically beta testing the car on the public, letting them find the problems.

Here's a pic of my cars. The Camaro and Fiero are mine.

I owned a 2001 Jetta GLX.
I was damn near religious with the service checks. Oil changes every 3K miles. Religious, I tell you.
Doesn't change the fact that it was still a bona fide POS.
Glad I sold that turdster when I did.
I will never buy another VW again.

It's funny how everyone seems to have a heap of problems, yet they never say what they are.

My mom owns an American car, the tranny has went, interior bits are falling off, it is making a very loud squeaking noise from the suspension bits, and the fuel pump went bad.

NTF: Sorry for the rudeness but i'm really sick of that shiat.

amen ... ANY MAKE WILL HAVE HAPPY CUSTOMERS AND DISSATISFIED ONES. I stay out of stupid "my make is better than your make" catfights because of this fact. I'm happy with the car I have, the car I had before that, and the two cars before the VWs (which were a different make).

That said, my experience has been good.

I drive a Golf. I had a different Golf before that. Neither of them has had any crippling problems. I'm in the local VW club. Nobody I know has had anything abnormally serious. Just your typical minor glitches, which we fix. My last check engine light? A vacuum hose broke. The exact same sort of vacuum hose that is in every car under the sun.

Fixed for free (and diagnostic codes cleared for free) by another member who had spare vacuum hoses that fit and one of our floating scan tools. My current problem? Alignment is off. Because I hit a pothole. Big freakin' deal. Potholes tend to cause that. So I'll have a shop fix it. It's not the car's fault for being a VW. It's the city's fault for not fixing it in a timely fashion or marking it to make it visible at night (I have excellent headlights, and I still didn't see it, and it was really damn big).

improvius: I think the Jettas are made in Mexico. My 2001 GTI is from Brazil. Some of the other models and special editions are still made in Germany. In any case, I think it's still debatable whether or not that has any bearing on the quality of the vehicle itself.

You are entirely correct. Jettas/Boras come from Mexico, some Golfs are from Brazil, some (mostly 2001 and earlier) from Germany, Passats, Eurovans, Jetta wagons, from Germany, the Golf R32 is from Bavaria (I think), the New Beetle is from Mexico.

How to tell? Look at the first digit of the VIN. W=Germany, 9=Brazil, 3=Mexico. (A few common ones you see on other makes: 1=USA, 2=Canada, J=Japan, S=England, etc. Walk around a carshow sometime and pay attention to VINs and window sticker final assembly locations).

All the factories use the same parts and it's hard to prove that the build site is a factor.

I've had the windows fall down more times than I can count

That's under recall and fixed with a new, sturdier part. If you paid for it, get your money back, if it breaks again they'll fix it for free. So are the coil packs.

The Icelander: I had a 1990 VW Jetta that lived forever. Exhuast rusted through, but that's normal after 173k, right?

Happened on the family '88 Honda Accord when it got to about 140K. Big deal, didn't cost much to fix. Fix it for good if you want with an aftermarket stainless-steel exhaust that won't ever rust. Don't want to bother, fix it for another bunch of years with a standard exhaust pipe for a lot less.

All that said, I really am sick of the stupid VW-bashing. I guess it's the "in thing" to bash anything that you don't personally use these days.

Yeah, I went through 2 Fords before going Asian but didn't feel like stating the obvious by saying they were both towed away. I loved them both and almost shed a tear when my Escort and Taurus got hauled off to get turned into donations or art projects or whatever they are doing today.

FYI, you can drive an '87 Escort for about 50 miles on a bad water pump before you have a couple gallons of fluid draining into the parking spaces next to you. And for the person who mentioned the Subaru Loyale, I had to drive mine into an incoming Alaskan tide before it finally did weird things.

...but I'm much better now