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(CBS News)   Christian group says silver pledge rings better than condoms. Logic goes insane and jumps off cliff   (cbsnews.com) divider line 601
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23846 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Sep 2005 at 3:47 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-09-19 11:08:11 AM
Geotpf said: "No, actually, that's wrong. If they are having unprotected sex and believe that abortion is a sin, it will (sadly) actually work the other way. More babies born to fundies = more fundies."


well, that's supposing that nurture overrides nature in every instance. or that one is a "clean slate" when born, willing to accept whatever knowledge parents bestow upon them. while i agree that escaping from a strictly fundamentalist xian family can be difficult, it can be done. afterall, parents aren't the ONLY influence we have growing up...and surprisingly i actually do have faith that logic will prevail over some of these "abstinence only" teens given time and real life experience.
 
2005-09-19 11:08:15 AM
stpikrell: My biggest fear is that these pledges are the modern-day version (or something like it) of the tassels of phylacteries worn proudly by the Pharisees of 1st-century Palestine.

My biggest fear is nuclear holocaust.
 
2005-09-19 11:08:26 AM
If my Ctrl-F skills haven't failed me, no one has yet to post a link to the video piece made by CBS that the article summarizes:

http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/002132.html. It's even scarier to see people keep straight faces while speaking the quotes above.

Quicktime required. The site onegoodmove.org also hosts clips from far-left leaning late night shows for non-night owls and those without cable, if anyone is interested.
 
2005-09-19 11:08:51 AM
Fundies are funny.

But if I remember correctly, church was a great place to get ass when I was younger. And the girls' parents were never a problem, after all, they knew me from church.

Maybe we'll get lucky with the next progressive president and they will implement a mandatory "common sense sex education" class for 6th graders or something, in order to counteract the fundies retardedness.
 
2005-09-19 11:13:41 AM
Peanut M&M's and Abstinence; the two greatest roadblocks to good sex.
 
2005-09-19 11:14:49 AM
Man, if i was president, i'd completely overhaul the school system. Remove age related "grades" and just test every kid once a year to see what level they are at reading, math, etc. Some move up faster, some move up slower. You'd end up with some mixed ages in a classroom, which might help the weird social dynamic of the average high school. Also, everyone gets taught logic and critical thinking as a required course. And sex ed on an optional basis available at any time. Oh, it would be glorious.
 
2005-09-19 11:14:49 AM
Boy, this makes me mad. I just read that Uganda, one of the few African countries that was successfully combating AIDS through increased condom usage, is again on the downward slope. Why? The U.S. government ties its aid money in with preaching abstinence only. But it seems the new policy hasn't convinced Ugandans to stop having sex -- it's only stopped them from using condoms.

The U.S. administration bases its policy in this, as in the drug war, on an imprecise moral code, rather than on statistics. The rules defining moral behavior are open to interpretation in any situation, and no two situations are ever exactly alike -- if a kidnapper extracts a promise from me to pay him $100,000, am I afterwards obliged to honor that promise? A lie is a sin, after all (even more so than wearing a condom). To avoid sin, I should pay him the money. If the kidnapper then uses the money to buy guns to arm 100 more kidnappers, it isn't my concern. This seems to be our government's attitude -- an inconsistently applied, one-size-fits-all moral code that in some cases leads to actual harm, all to protect the soul of the administration.

The Evangelical movement, exported by America, is taking over in Africa, and so in a few years, when Africa has perhaps gotten over its ethnic violence, it'll be ready to start up sectarian violence.

But, somehow triggering all this doesn't rate as a sin to the Bush administration.

/sorry for the thread-jack. Arrrgh.
 
2005-09-19 11:15:25 AM
AAArgh: I'd hook it, Matey!
 
2005-09-19 11:15:44 AM
My biggest fear is nuclear holocaust.

What about Nuclear Arms? You can't hug your children with nuclear arms!
 
2005-09-19 11:16:09 AM
But wouldn't his daughter be more protected with a condom than without? "Not long term," says Pattyn.

"See, cuz when she dies from pneumonia after living with AIDS for 5 or 6 years, she'll at least go to heaven for being virginal. That's the kind of long term I'M talkin bout."
 
2005-09-19 11:18:56 AM
Quackedtheduck: Man, if i was president, i'd completely overhaul the school system.

Yeah, me too - by getting the federal government uninvolved.
 
2005-09-19 11:20:05 AM
The Evangelical movement, exported by America, is taking over in Africa, and so in a few years, when Africa has perhaps gotten over its ethnic violence, it'll be ready to start up sectarian violence.

I'd hit it like Yafet Koto in "Raid on Entebbe".
 
2005-09-19 11:22:17 AM
But wouldn't his daughter be more protected with a condom than without? "Not long term," says Pattyn.

"Rest assured Mr. Pattyn, I never use condoms"

"Atta boy, Dan'l"
 
2005-09-19 11:24:20 AM


I'm sorry, but I require my nutjobs to have good formatting and layout skills.
 
2005-09-19 11:24:56 AM
Sloth_DC: Yeah, me too - by getting the federal government uninvolved.

..and the Kansas Board of uneducation
 
2005-09-19 11:25:46 AM
Whatever. If men want to lose control over their own lives by getting a woman pregnant without planning it, or by contracting a disease, then treat yourselves and rue the day for a lifetime. If women want to lose control of their lives by getting pregnant without planning it, or by contracting a disease, treat yourselves, and rue the day for a lifetime. Just don't milk the taxpayers for BS like multi-children welfare programs and medical programs. You want to screw? Great. But if you get screwed in the process, you screwed yourself.
 
2005-09-19 11:26:26 AM
Flipper the Dolphin:

So lets work on keeping our kids safe by keeping them on the straight and level.


Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the child George Bush left behind.
 
2005-09-19 11:28:00 AM
There is nothing wrong with the Federal Government spending its money preaching abstinence only to the teenagers of America. This country is going to hell in a handbasket and living by God's Rules is the only way to salvation. Sex without love and outside of marriage is ruining this country and its citizens. The people trying to do the right thing should be thanked and praised instead of criticisized for being Christians.
 
2005-09-19 11:29:53 AM
GREAT!!! The next generation of closed minded fark-wads.

Could this be the end of blowjobs!!!
 
2005-09-19 11:31:22 AM
Sloth_DC I disagree. Privatizing the school system would lead to very uneven education and make class mobility a thing of the past. It needs to be managed much better and more efficiently than it is, certainly.
 
2005-09-19 11:31:35 AM
mindbuzz

Well said. Very well said.
 
2005-09-19 11:32:17 AM
mindbuzz That was a joke, right?
 
2005-09-19 11:33:27 AM
mindbuzz:

The people trying to do the right thing should be thanked and praised instead of criticisized for being Christians.

While I can respect your desire for a youth with strong moral foundation, you have to understand that ignoring education on the use of condoms is dangerous.
When kids eventually do mess around,and they will, then they will not bother with a condom as a result of this ignorance.
The you will have yourself a nice plate of pregant teens or worse yet death by AIDS.

Oh and by the way Christians do not, I repeat do not have a monopoly on moral fiber.
 
2005-09-19 11:33:28 AM
mhcranberry
But teenagers hate being lied to. They need to be able to trust us with these issues.

Marvelous post. Spectacular.
 
2005-09-19 11:34:32 AM
smeegle: ..and the Kansas Board of uneducation

Hey, if Kansas wants to create uneducated citizens, it's a damn shame, but it's not a federal issue. *shrug* Part of what makes this country great is that each State is free to pursue their own unique forms of idiocy without interference from the others (within certain limits, of course).
 
2005-09-19 11:35:09 AM
mindbuzz:

giving us an example of the beautiful double-speak christians are so fond of. to sum up:

"tolerate us and our views! but we won't tolerate you and your views because 'God's Rules are the ONLY way to salvation'."
 
2005-09-19 11:35:54 AM
So, let's see if I got this right...
They're teaching no sex before marriage. (They say it's a sin and all this time I thought it was heaven.)

They also say that no man is without sin.

They aren't gonna teach people what to do when they do sin. Is this because it's better to not only have the sin but also the unwanted pregnancy and/or STD?

/ Using "They" is fun.
// Of course, this "they" was related to the article so it wasn't as much fun as generally demonizing.
/// They won't let me get married except in Massachussetts so I had to have pre-marital sex
//// These slashies are kinda fun too
 
2005-09-19 11:36:05 AM
RTFA
DRFT

This is absurd. Sure, go ahead and teach abstinence, it's a pretty good thing, 14 y/o's should be goin around having sex (imo) but don't preach ignorance to the people your trying to "protect" (because if you were really trying to protect them you'd help them to become adults who can make their own decisions)
I'm not anti-christian (though I am bias) and I have met plenty of intelligent, respectable christians but shiat like this just gives you all a bad name, you should speak out against this type of crap.
 
2005-09-19 11:36:18 AM
Sloth_DC: Part of what makes this country great is that each State is free to pursue their own unique forms of idiocy without interference from the others (within certain limits, of course).


Part of what MADE the country great.
That doesnt happen as much anymore....
 
2005-09-19 11:36:21 AM
Quackedtheduck:

I disagree. Privatizing the school system would lead to very uneven education and make class mobility a thing of the past. It needs to be managed much better and more efficiently than it is, certainly.

Neat - do you always invent both sides of the argument? I said nothing about privatizing - I said getting the _federal_ government uninvolved. The federal government is not the sum of all government in this country, and it has no authority in most of the areas of government authority.
 
2005-09-19 11:36:29 AM
Sloth_DC: each State is free to pursue their own unique forms of idiocy



Yeah I know. Scary though. Some states should be avoided and not taken seriously.
 
2005-09-19 11:37:14 AM
mindbuzz
There is nothing wrong with the Federal Government spending its money preaching abstinence only to the teenagers of America.

Yes there is. For starters: it doesn't work.

This country is going to hell in a handbasket and living by God's Rules is the only way to salvation.

Which fundies, in my experience, don't even try to do. Have you read the gospels? And you really, honestly believe that the modern american fundamentalist movement is a pure or even valid expression of the philosophy presented by Christ? Puh-leeze.

Sex without love and outside of marriage is ruining this country and its citizens.

Upon what do you base that? I don't disagree that there are forces at work rotting this country from within, but sex out of wedlock is quite simply not one of those.

The people trying to do the right thing should be thanked and praised instead of criticisized for being Christians.

Being a Christian doesn't at all mean what you think it does.
 
2005-09-19 11:37:55 AM
Sloth_DC Don't be rude, I just made an assumption. I was wrong, yeesh. Would you limit it to state or local authorities? Because either way you're going to have the same problems,what with some states being much poorer than others.
 
2005-09-19 11:37:57 AM
annie_fannie:

"tolerate us and our views! but we won't tolerate you and your views because 'God's Rules are the ONLY way to salvation'."

touche!
 
2005-09-19 11:38:22 AM
ShadezofDis:

Sure, go ahead and teach abstinence, it's a pretty good thing, 14 y/o's should be goin around having sex (imo)

Apparently you disagree with the Creator - She's the one who decided to make us become sexual beings at such a young age :-)
 
2005-09-19 11:39:27 AM
smeegle: Yeah I know. Scary though. Some states should be avoided and not taken seriously.

Yeah, I know - I've spent enough time in some of those States to realize I don't want those people having *any* say over what I do.
 
2005-09-19 11:40:01 AM
Sloth_DC:

Creator - She's the one who decided to make us become sexual beings at such a young age :-)

That was when she blesses us with a shorter lifespan:P
 
2005-09-19 11:40:45 AM
*Would like to state that the church he grew up in, a UCC church, hosted sex ed seminars in the buildins. And yes, they taught about proper usage of prophal.. pr... .. damnit. Condoms.*

mr excess
And I agree with you. I think may of the people in the modern american fundamentalist movement actually worship their country far, far more than their god. They are unwilling to call out their own country when it performs acts that the bible would consider 'evil.' (Such as, say, killing/dissapearing civillians of other countries to make their own country 'safer'.)
 
2005-09-19 11:41:24 AM
Sloth_DC: I don't want those people having *any* say over what I do.



Imagine this:
Senator Fred Phelps head of the Judical Committee or majority whip. Ahhhhh run away run away.
 
2005-09-19 11:41:28 AM
mindbuzz:

There is nothing wrong with the Federal Government spending its money preaching abstinence only to the teenagers of America. This country is going to hell in a handbasket and living by God's Rules is the only way to salvation. Sex without love and outside of marriage is ruining this country and its citizens. The people trying to do the right thing should be thanked and praised instead of criticisized for being Christians.

Thank you mindbuzz. I think we should just let all the ungodly satan children catch their STDs and refuse to treat them. That'll teach 'em [in such a loving way]! (Hint: there might be sarcasm in play here...]

What is the "right thing"? Is it preventing STDs, teen pregnancies, etc.? Or is it preventing sex outside of marriage? I can only see the sacredness of marriage goin even further downhill. All these kids making all their pledges will marry on whim... have their sex... then divorce! Awesome!
 
2005-09-19 11:42:08 AM
smeegle
That was when she blesses us with a shorter lifespan:P

I gotta disagree here. Nothing that's happened to us so far has changed the fact that we're biologically intended to begin pair bonding at the arrival of mensus.

Find me another animal in nature that doesn't mate the first season after sexual maturity.
 
2005-09-19 11:42:22 AM
The vast majority of "uneducated" (or just too cool and hip) children are in the urban centers, in the major metropolitan areas. Those same areas are the bastions of liberalism. The message - don't take responsibility for your own conduct kiddies - we'll just shove another welfare/healthcare issue on the taxpayers of America.
 
2005-09-19 11:42:29 AM
Those free Health Department condoms would be more appetizing if they gave out the chocolate flavored ones. Women can't resist chocolate.

Anyway, since when does the fact that you're married mean you can't get STDs? What if you marry a chick with AIDS? I don't have any statistics, but I would hazard a guess that out of every 100 teenage fundies, maybe 10 have ever gotten screened for STDs, and only 1 or 2 go regularly. On top of that, I live in Mississippi now, having moved here from Jersey, and let me just say that despite being in the bible-belt, it is almost impossible to find a virgin over the age of 15 here. I knew plenty of chicks in Jersey who were in their 20s and had never gone all the way. Here, I know 10 chicks in their late teens or early 20s who have been boned on many an occasion. And guess what....THEY ALL HAVE KIDS! And also keep in mind that I am now a shut-in who barely socializes, whereas in jersey I knew just about everyone in my town and the surrounding towns. So, teens with kids I knew in Jersey where Sex-Ed taught me to use condoms and ask chicks if they're on the pill: 0 (wait, actually 2, but those were some messed up chicks). Teens I know with kids in Mississippi: 10 (those are just the ones I know well because they're friends of my wife). Teens I saw taking care of babies in Jersey: umm...a very low number. Teens I saw taking care of babies in Mississippi: Just about everyone. Single mothers I knew in jersey(any age): 4 (all over the age of 25 and with stable careers). Single mothers I know in Mississippi: I only know 2 girls here that are married of with a steady boyfriend (and the single mothers either work as waitresses making 2.10 an hour or sell meth).

This is not a scientific inquiry, but I think it's fairly indicative of how well the bible-belt "abstinance only education" is working. And on top of that, the social stigma that goes with buying condoms is like a billion times worse than the social stigma ofhaving a child at the age of 16 and not being married. I was buying condoms for me and my wife (because we can't afford to raise children right now and I know it), and I got more evil looks from old people than when I had a mohawk. The cashier asked me for my ID, before admiting that they used to have a law that said you couldn't buy condoms if you were under 18 but it had only recently gotten repealed, but she still asked anyway.

Does anybody even still wonder why the south is farked up?
 
2005-09-19 11:43:32 AM
 
2005-09-19 11:44:27 AM
mrexcess:

Find me another animal in nature that doesn't mate the first season after sexual maturity.

You mistook my bantor as fact.
 
2005-09-19 11:45:24 AM
What always cracks me up is when the teenage abstaining couples say in interviews "we're saving ourselves so that our wedding night is really special".

No, they're saving themselves so that their wedding night is awkward, uncomfortable, quite likely painful and almost certainly no fun for the woman. But then, that doesn't make such a catchy soundbite, does it?

Quackedtheduck

The USA already has the lowest social mobility of all western-style societies, so don't think the current system is all that great either.
 
2005-09-19 11:45:56 AM
Felgraf
And I agree with you. I think may of the people in the modern american fundamentalist movement actually worship their country far, far more than their god. They are unwilling to call out their own country when it performs acts that the bible would consider 'evil.' (Such as, say, killing/dissapearing civillians of other countries to make their own country 'safer'.)

Therefor I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn, and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Luke 12:22-25

Show me a fundie who follows this, and I'll show you someone who isn't a fundie.
 
2005-09-19 11:46:06 AM
Rtikuleight:

The vast majority of "uneducated" (or just too cool and hip) children are in the urban centers, in the major metropolitan areas. Those same areas are the bastions of liberalism. The message - don't take responsibility for your own conduct kiddies - we'll just shove another welfare/healthcare issue on the taxpayers of America.

Rural areas have higher rates of teen pregnancy than urban ones. But, why start letting facts influence your arguments, eh?
 
2005-09-19 11:46:16 AM
what is marriage to the average american these days, really? a piece of paper signed by some religious and/or government officials? an extravagent party to show off to their friends and family how wealthy they are/will be? what has it ever really meant? we all know there's some unattainable ideal of what it's SUPPOSED to mean...but how many of us actually live it? how many of our ancestors did? it's been a horribly dysfunctional institution right from the start...it's just now divorce is slightly more acceptable.

if you think our society is "going to hell in a handbasket", why not really examine the things that are bringing it down?
 
2005-09-19 11:46:18 AM
BenR Hence why I originally said it needs a massive overhaul.
 
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