Much stupidity and denial abounding then later STDs and teen pregenancies.
-typical fundy mindset.

Anyone mentioned the new reality TV show just started in the the UK (BBC)?

It's called "no sex please we are teenagers" and it is a documentary of the lives of 12 teenagers between the ages of 15 /16 who agree not to have sex for 6 months.

Check it out-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4185498.stm

Bonus_Eruptus says vasectomies are better than condoms and silver pledge rings combined.

feta

...who agree not to have sex for 6 months.

What a sacrifice. Man the teen years have changed since I was among their number.

IS THAT A PLEDGE RING???!!!!!!!

/Nedermeyer

Jesus Christ!

What?

Get the Escalade, we're out of here!

I really hate the way religions/cultures warp kid's
sense of sexuality.

So what if I'd taken one of these pledges in high school. . .
I'm now 28 and still not married (was engaged briefly once).
But that would mean I'd still be a virgin at 28. . .

I've learned alot about myself and my body that frankly I'm
glad I learned young. Farking is something that you want
to be good at/ understand while you're young and horny as
hell.

Besides, I think this only pushes people into marriages that
wouldn't normally commit to because otherwise they will die
sad horny virgins. I'd rather make sure I marry a woman I
care about that I'm sure will work, not because I'm horny
as hell.

/until then there's always that friend with benifits to
tide you over
//eyeing my phone

Red Donkey

I have to agree with the others who have said (variations of)...

1. Teach abstinence. It IS the only 100% effective method.
2. Teach condoms too. So that if they fall off the wagon, they have a backup plan.

I dunno. I think I'll be a bit radical here and suggest that responsibility is taught. You know, teaching them enough about what the potential outcome of a course of action is, how to mitigate any bad effects, how to maximise any good effects. Instill a rational and informed decision making ethos, in other words.

So many people prefer dogma and ignorance, and I really don't know why: witless and brainwashed is no way to go through life.

I keep coming back to "teach abstinence". Weird concept -

Teacher: Today, I am going to teach you abstinence - don't do it, even if you really feel like it. Thank you. That is all.

I wonder how many abstinance-until-marriage advocates actually were virgins until they married....

me.

Yeah it would be sooo stupid to teach abstinance to teenagers... because all those relationships in middle school and highschool were soooo worth having sex for. Your a better person from it right? morons.

mtylerjr

I think it's a great article.

Monogamy, fidelity, marriage are institutions worth preserving.

Make up your mind.

Oh, God, wait. Don't tell me you think the crap outlined in the article would actually work??!?!

Nobody is forcing -you- to take a vow of abstinence. I think its great.

Since you seem to have forgotten, allow me to ask: what is the road to Hell paved with?

feta

Anyone mentioned the new reality TV show just started in the the UK (BBC)?


I saw some of that. They took the kids to one of these abstinance seminars in the US. The guy that was lecturing was telling them that every time they had sex they were giving away a bit of their heart, so it was best for them to save all of their heart to give to their partner on their wedding night. I almost vomited and couldn't watch any more.

birth control. it's your friend. Yeah, I've read reports where kids who "abstain" are having a lot more unprotected oral sex, which is leading to lots of kids with "clap throat"... ugh. Because some parents aren't doing their jobs, and teaching their kids about sexually transmitted diseases, and forcing schools to drop much needed education for health classes, because they think that no one will EVER need birth control information, or std information.

My 17 year old buys his own condoms. When and if he gets married, He'll still be using birth control, because he's not insane, and planning on forcing his wife to pound a new one out every year.

My other two sons are too young to worry about yet, but when they hit puberty, they will also be getting the "condoms are your friends, they protect you from disease and getting someone pregnant better than anything except not having sex in the first place" lecture from either their father or me.

Good Godz, those particular christians are stupid. We'll have to add "stay away from girls with 'promise rings', they probably have ghonoreah or worse in the throat, 'cause they don't use condoms and you don't want to be fathering any kids on insane people" to the lecture.

troykent misses the point.
teaching ONLY abstinence and demonizing the use of condoms or other birth control/STD prevention methods is not so fun.
and in middle school and high school it wasnt about "the woman of my dreams forever and ever" because even if we found it back then we wouldnt know it. It was about getting a piece and loving it.
I for one had a great time tooling out underage girls with perky lil boobs when i could do so without being labelled a statutory rapist. In fact, a few women statutorily raped me.
but you dont see my parents screaming "LOCK EM UP!"
kids are gonna bang bang bang. Too bad, get over it.

Let's gaze a year into the future

um... I thought the success rate of condoms was 99% ? More successful in fact than the contraceptive pill, and with the added bonus of protecting you against nasties.

/going to hell
//in a handcart
///love that phrase

i wore the ring and i caught the clap.

stupid fundies lied to me again!

If I was young and reading this I would think "What a great idea... I am more likely to get a B.J from one of the other cute Ring Thing chicks..."

Silver c*ck rings for all...

\Absolutely the biggest, warmest steaming pile I have read recently
\\Natural selection and disease should wipe them out soon
\\\I am worry for my kids (but they shall have open access to information and ideas)

hotwingconspiracy is my new friend.

Well, at least ye won`t lose yer bloody eye if ye wear a condom, silly Christians! ARRRRR!!

Got a 16 and a 17 year old son. Bought 'em a each a pack of condoms when they turned 14 and told them how they're properly used. I was sexually active at 14 and know that I would have lied and worn a silver ring to trick the folks then farked like a rabbit. I would also have taken full advantage of the technicality clause as well.

My younger son's girlfriend got herpes from oral sex. She also had no proper sex ed training (was taught "just say no" in a religious school). Boy, it SURE helped HER...

Abstinence doesn't work.

Condoms work.

In all honesty, sex is over rated. It ins't that great.

and DaShredda is doing it wrong.. appearently.
my experiences with sex have always been... underrated.
sex is AWE-SOME.

forgot to add: Part of that lecture will include the fact that condoms should be used for ALL sex- bj's are sex, anal is sex, anything that includes the genitals is "sex" so put on that freaking condom already. and put it on right.

Too many kids think they are "abstaining" when they have oral or anal sex, and spread disease all over the damn place. they cry "but I'm a virgin" just 'cause they never had vaginal/penile intercourse.

I'm sick of morons lying to our nation's kids, telling them that "condoms are ineffective."

keep the "abstinence only sex ed" (now there's an oxymoron) classes in the christian schools where they belong, along with creationism, and the claim that all the founding fathers were christian.


Red Donkey you're making too much sense.


/glad I didn't marry the first guy I had sex with, when I was 18
//he was a drug abusing alkie.
///REALLY glad I waited till I was 29 to get married
////REALLY REALLY glad I didn't wait till I was 29 to have sex
/////SLASHIES!!!!

Markoff_Cheney

Amen brother! At least, what I can recall...

/Married
//Old and busted
///Really hopes there's reincarnation
////Enjoys the internets until then...

Excuse the nerd reference, but I think it would convey it best on this forum...

I'm a lot like Darth Vader. I'd rather kick the shiat outof stuff, explore, be evil etc. than get laid.

well, as much as i second that, i would like to do those things to a vagina.
but, to each his own.

What pisses me off is my tax dollars support this crap through Bushes new "support the fundies with our tax dollars" initiative....

Markoff_Cheney

Too Shay

I think more teens should sign up for this. You could probably get five bucks for the silver in one of those rings.

maffick: good follow up, seems even BUSH cant handle the cock rings.

JessicaRaven

I saw the television program one of my more favourite things I noticed

"condoms have a 15% failure rate, means that condoms are worthless and should not be used at all"

(later when asked about the statistic that 80% of teens who enter these abstinence programs end up having sex anyway)

"well if there is a 20% success rate then it means it works, because 20% is better than nothing"


ok so evidently to these guys 15% failure rate is a complete and utter failure and a 20% success rate is a total success

my head asplode

Far be it from me to defend fundies, but I just can't let this one slide. Your head asplode because you are bad at math. Over the course of your life you'll use many condoms. The chance of getting an STD therefore is not the failure rate of one condom, as your post implies, but the failure rate to the N power (where N is the number of condoms you use during your life) times the probability that any one partner has an STD (I've heard 50% quoted but I don't know for sure) times the probability of contracting and STD.

Whatever that number is, I promise you it's way higher than 15%. On the other side we have these stupid abstinence pledges. If 20% keep to the pledge, there is a 0% chance that that 20% has an STD. Of the remaining 80%, they have the same chance of infection as the general population. Therefore, the abstinence programs do actually produce higher numbers of uninfected adults. QED

I'm not particularly in favor of them though. I don't really care either way to be perfectly honest. I just hate it when someone criticizes without understanding what it is they are criticizing.

I think my post should have said, "(1/failure rate)^N"

It's too early for this stuff.

What teachers like Laurie Sponsler cant do, if they follow the curricula [(Choosing The Best, whose publisher has been awarded $4 million in federal assistance)], is tell students that when condoms are used correctly, they are nearly always effective. And if a student asks how to use a condom, Sponsler's not supposed to tell.

Common sense, seperation of church and state, religious freedom all surrender.

Xaxor: See? The Christian Right wants America to go backwards. Same thing with the teaching of ID. I think I'll move to the UK ASAP.

Good dude, that would be great for me, take all of your stupid friends with you. Have fun living your arrogant socialist European life. Me? I'll be riding this shiat out until the election. It'll be back to the good old days. After the tax laws are changed again, and people can get back to work, and all of the fundies get upset with this government instead of running it, it's going to be a farking party in America. Then we can just make fun of your local Senator for being a fundie douche instead of the farking President.

Clinton years were so good precisely because the economics of living under Reaganomics for 12 years changed so radically so quickly. Leaving at the end of Bush is like abandoning your house when the rain finally subsides.

Go away. Things are going to get radically better in two years. TRUST ME. The only way that the Republicans are going to win this cycle is if they run McCain, which would be worse for them than a Democrat.

Honestly people, you've made it through this, it's all roses from here on out. Hell, even the rest of the world doesn't hate us. They want to give us a big hug and say "we're sorry we fought," because the farking drunken frat boy was in charge over there.

Trust me. Things will be good.

All of you "The only sure way to prevent teen pregnancy is absitnence" croud are forgetting one thing:

Abortion!!!

It doesn't get more "sure" than that. I say, teach kids how to get tested, use condoms, and get on the Pill. If that fails, then you can always just abort the little parasite.

barjockey: So much animosity toward those who don't want to be cool like you.

Shut up Barjockey, you cock!

/Oblig.

I just remember laughing my balls off when our chaplain told us back in Georgia that condoms wont protect you at all from HIV because the HIV cells can sneak inbetween the pores in the latex.

"So sir, you're saying, that a water-tight seal, will let the HIV cells through?"

"Yes private, they can creep through the pores in the latex."

"But water cant?"

"No, the HIV is trying to get through to attack you, the water is just floating around."

"...So just to confirm what you said sir... The cell, which is made up of a whole tun of molecules... can fit through, because its trying to 'attack me', but water, which is individual molecules, cant, because its just 'floating around'?"

"Yes private."

"(insert laughter here)"

/knows some water gets through too
//Was just the idea of the attack HIV (pronounced, not read as an acronym) that struck me as funny

DaShredda: In all honesty, sex is over rated. It ins't that great.

Jeez.

I can see this thread already hit the wall...

However, here's my two cents.

1) If you can wait til marriage, that's your call--whatever else I say here. It doesn't make you a better or worse person for having waited. Having sex is a choice, not having sex is an equally valid choice.

2) I've known people who have waited, I've known people who told everyone else they waited but didn't, I've known people who had oral, mutually masturbated but didn't engage in vaginal penetration and claimed to be virgins. If you didn't wait and hear your friends talk about how they waited like they are somehow morally superior, do not feel guilty. There is a good chance they didn't "wait" as long as they said they did, and at any rate, they are not superior to you, whatever some well-intentioned youth minister told you.

3) Telling someone that they must: a) wait until they are married; b) put off marriage until they are finished with school; c) go to college and finish, and get established before contemplating marriage; means that realistically you are asking men and women to wait until they are in their mid-20s for sex. In doing so, you raise the bar on behavior expectations above that even for the ancient Hebrews, who routinely married in their mid to late teens. Doing so sets up your children for a life of guilt and shame and a standard that will rarely be properly met.

4) Waiting for sex at no point guarantees a successful marriage. Sex is only one portion of a relationship, and not even half of the job. I say 'job', because a marriage is *work*. Once the "newness" of sex wears off, you realize this. To the degree that waiting helps you concentrate on getting the other 3/2 to 3/4 of the relationship right, I think it's a wonderful thing--indeed many, many couples who've had sex before they got involved with each other find that waiting for a time for sex and not just jumping each other from the word 'go' actually helped their relationship.

5) My advise to anyone under 18 is this: wait for love. Note I didn't say wait for marriage, I said wait for love. Having sex to "get it over with" is no reason to have it. Indeed, it cheapens the experience. Sex with someone you love is 100x better than sex with someone you met hours before, take from someone who's been there.

6) Use a condom. People forget to take pills. Use a condom. People find out that people have STDs after the fact not before, typically about the time they find out the person isn't who they made themselves out to be. Use a condom. Abortion is not birth control. Use a condom. If I haven't made my point strongly enough yet, remember to use a condom. Condoms are no guarantee, but they don't hurt. Discouraging their use because they encourage sex is, point blank and forgive the colorful language, farking stupid.

That's the view from the heretic in the back row of the church...good luck to you.

--h

El_camino:....what does that have to do with anything?
did i miss something?

I don't think I have read any po$ts more ignorant the po$ts by Flipper the Dolphin.

Abstinence only programs are not effective they have a 80% failure rate. That is all that needs to be said.

enave:

Far be it from me to defend fundies, but I just can't let this one slide. Your head asplode because you are bad at math. Over the course of your life you'll use many condoms. The chance of getting an STD therefore is not the failure rate of one condom, as your post implies, but the failure rate to the N power (where N is the number of condoms you use during your life) times the probability that any one partner has an STD (I've heard 50% quoted but I don't know for sure) times the probability of contracting and STD.

Whatever that number is, I promise you it's way higher than 15%. On the other side we have these stupid abstinence pledges. If 20% keep to the pledge, there is a 0% chance that that 20% has an STD. Of the remaining 80%, they have the same chance of infection as the general population. Therefore, the abstinence programs do actually produce higher numbers of uninfected adults. QED

I'm not particularly in favor of them though. I don't really care either way to be perfectly honest. I just hate it when someone criticizes without understanding what it is they are criticizing.

You forgot that of those 80%, they are less likely to use a condom (because they think it's worthless), making them more likely to contract an STD.

I think I'm simply too smart to enjoy sex.

Thanks science! You ruined something for me yet again!!!

AgeOfReason writes:

Abstinence only programs are not effective they have a 80% failure rate. That is all that needs to be said.

Except that abstinence is more successful for teens who have already had sex. Ironicoontil you think about it.

--h

hdhale: 5) My advise to anyone under 18 is this: wait for love.

Or, just wait until you have the chance to have some sex. Really, people, what's the logic behind making sex out to be a bigger deal than it is?

It's as purely animal an act as eating, defication, and sleeping. In all liklihood, humans are not genetically predisposed to be monogamous for life, so claiming that there's some deep-seeded psychological need for sex and emotional intimacy to be intertwined is nonsense.

Sex is a physical act, if there are emotions involved, then it can be an emotional act as well, but it can very easily be just physical. Make sure that she's taking the pill correctly, make sure that you've both been tested and wear a condom, that's all that we should be teaching teens about sex.

Donald_McRonald: On the other side we have these stupid abstinence pledges. If 20% keep to the pledge, there is a 0% chance that that 20% has an STD. Of the remaining 80%, they have the same chance of infection as the general population.

No, they don't, because they don't know how have safe sex, because nobody taught them.