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(The Local)   America is all talk when it comes to "family values", could learn a thing or two from those godless heathens in Sweden   (thelocal.se) divider line 269
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21369 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Sep 2005 at 8:18 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-09-16 09:47:09 PM
swahnhennessy

A whole hell of a lot more than 3%.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sweden is 90% Swedish, 2% Finnish.

http://www.sos-childrensvillages.org/cgi-bin/sos/jsp/wherewehelp.do?ct=14142&l ang=en&nav=2.3&site=ZZ

The rest of the population is made up of the following groups, in decreasing order of size:

Finns, Yugoslavs, Danes, Norwegians, Greeks, Turks

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sw.html

Any way you cut it, it's a shiatLOAD of Scandinavian people.
 
2005-09-16 09:49:59 PM
 
2005-09-16 09:50:33 PM
WIth all this nonsense about 'mothers' and 'children' distracting from tax rates and extra spending money to piss away on pull tabs and beer -- how the hell is the human race going to survive?!?
 
2005-09-16 09:51:12 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito: Any way you cut it, it's a shiatLOAD of Scandinavian people.


I suggest you take a look at the link I provided and stop trying to argue with a guy who lives in Sweden. I think I might know a little bit about the country I live in.
 
cot
2005-09-16 09:53:26 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito: This still fails to address the main problem with America and childbirth: parents who want to enroll their 3-year-old in "school" early so the state can basically babysit their kids.

If you're gonna have a kid, raise your damn kid. Spend time with it. Don't expect taxpayers to look after it until kindergarten.


I don't know if I'd call this the "main" problem, but it's certainly annoying. people at the grocery store were looking for signatures to get free preschool for kids. Screw that. We already pay too much in tax money for inferior schooling, not gonna extend that failing program further.
 
2005-09-16 09:55:13 PM
swahnhennessy: I suggest you take a look at the link I provided and stop trying to argue with a guy who lives in Sweden.

The link you provded shows that you have a whole lot of White people.
 
2005-09-16 09:55:56 PM
COT
\I agree you're a genius.

We'll all become waiters and janitors and Americans host=pitals will get the doctors from rich countries like Pakistan that can afford to educate people
 
2005-09-16 09:56:08 PM
2005-09-16 09:51:12 PM swahnhennessy

I suggest you take a look at the link I provided and stop trying to argue with a guy who lives in Sweden. I think I might know a little bit about the country I live in.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --

Uh, that site actually has duplicate information to what I .

Just because you saw several Asian people the other day in Stockholm doesn't mean that a) they weren't tourists, or b) there are a lot of them there.

Bottom line: Sweden is WAY more homogeneous than America. There's no denial of this fact, whether it's 3%, 5%, or 15% non-ethnic Scandinavians.
 
2005-09-16 09:58:23 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito:
Any way you cut it, it's a shiatLOAD of Scandinavian people.

Quelle suprise. I suppose people would be shocked to find out that 91% of China is, gasp, Chinese.
 
2005-09-16 09:58:57 PM
2005-09-16 09:58:23 PM equusdc

Quelle suprise. I suppose people would be shocked to find out that 91% of China is, gasp, Chinese.
---------------------------------------------------------------

And that would be in line with my point too. Do you even know what we were talking about?
 
2005-09-16 09:59:29 PM
Why do some people have such hostility to the thought that somewhere in rest of the world, there may be a country that does some little thing better than the U.S. Read "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire", Rome was all powerful but collapsed internally to the point where the Huns could over-run them.
 
2005-09-16 09:59:57 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito:
Do you even know what we were talking about?

Yes, I just find it amazing that so much space has been devoted to talking about it.
 
cot
2005-09-16 10:00:41 PM
MinnesotaJack: We'll all become waiters and janitors and Americans host=pitals will get the doctors from rich countries like Pakistan that can afford to educate people

This is a little unclear to me but whatever.

I don't know why people are so down on the voucher system. At least hold schools accountable by allowing people to choose. Private schools demonstrably do more with less.

If you're worried about sucking all the money out of shiatty schools, that's the whole point. If you're worried about poor neighborhoods having all their schools degrade or shut down, then only allow vouchers to be used in your local geographical area. If you want to send your kids to school outside of the area, go ahead but you pay out of pocket and the voucher money goes to the local schools.

I don't know why teachers and school administrators are so afraid of accountability. Actually, that's not true, it's clear why they are. I just don't know why they think they should be above it.
 
2005-09-16 10:01:13 PM
Attractive and sexually liberated blond women, no Christian fundamentalists, easygoing lifestyle, free healthcare, and no warmongering government that sucks corporate cock. That's it, I'm buying some warm clothes and moving!
 
2005-09-16 10:02:23 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito: Sweden is WAY more homogeneous than America. There's no denial of this fact, whether it's 3%, 5%, or 15% non-ethnic Scandinavians.

Are you talking about immigrants or white people? Because America has an immigrant population of 10%. That doesn't seem to be any higher than Sweden's, whichever figures you choose to use.
 
2005-09-16 10:02:31 PM
Poutine Breath

Wow, greatest name ever...gotta go heat up some McCain's now.
 
2005-09-16 10:06:10 PM
2005-09-16 10:02:23 PM swahnhennessy

Are you talking about immigrants or white people? Because America has an immigrant population of 10%. That doesn't seem to be any higher than Sweden's, whichever figures you choose to use.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------

Both. If you use both as factors, the picture you end up with is that Sweden is VERY homogeneous, especially compared to the US.
 
2005-09-16 10:07:33 PM
equusdc

Yes, I just find it amazing that so much space has been devoted to talking about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I know. swahnhennessy just HAD to contest the obvious fact that Sweden is way more homogeneous than America.
 
2005-09-16 10:12:33 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito: Both. If you use both as factors, the picture you end up with is that Sweden is VERY homogeneous, especially compared to the US.

But what does homogeny have to do with social programs? Either someone is a citizen or they are not. Do black or hispanic people think differently than white people? Do Polish-Americans have wildly diverse opinions compared to Irish-Americans? Do Turkish Swedes behave differently than Scandinavian Swedes? I fail to see how a person's point of orgin has any bearing on why a system such as the one in Sweden would work in a given country or not.
 
2005-09-16 10:12:51 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito: Yeah, I know. swahnhennessy just HAD to contest the obvious fact that Sweden is way more homogeneous than America.

That's my favorite part about the whole thing: "golly, that's nice for Sweden, but it could never work here -- because I don't want to support people who aren't just like me." Really reveals a great deal about how americans really collectively think.
 
2005-09-16 10:14:29 PM
krazydiamond

80% of Canadians are of European origin. This does not include Americans, although "Americans" are not necessarily white people.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761563379_6/Canada.html

Just under 70% of Americans call themselves "white."

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

You would be right, however, that the numbers aren't all that different. But they are different.
 
2005-09-16 10:16:38 PM
I like how people pretend to compare ethnic diversity between Sweden and the US while what they really want to say is that socialism wouldn't work here because the blacks and latinos would bankrupt the country.
 
2005-09-16 10:17:26 PM
Nice to know that someone has their priorities straight.
There would be grumbles about Communists and leaches if that was ever tried in the states.
 
2005-09-16 10:18:31 PM
equusdc

That's my favorite part about the whole thing: "golly, that's nice for Sweden, but it could never work here -- because I don't want to support people who aren't just like me." Really reveals a great deal about how americans really collectively think.
--------------------------------------------------------------

It's more complicated than that (although this should be obvious, I have no idea why you don't get it). What's harder--coming to some kind of agreement among 3 friends, or among 30 people, not all of whom know each other?

More diversity means more heterogeneity in values, needs, opinions, and talents. Yes, they clash sometimes, but in the end things are better for it, even if it means stymied or stunted social programs.

Some of it IS definitely just plain bigotry, as you suggest. But this reason doesn't even tell most of the story.
 
2005-09-16 10:19:25 PM
cot

Private schools demonstrably do more with less.

No, they really don't. Statistics for private schools appear to be better, but only because the kids that attend private school are disproportionately from higher income families.

http://www.nea.org/goodnews/index.html

Some highlights:

Sixty-seven percent (67%) of the nation's public high schools offer Advanced Placement courses, through which students can earn college credit. Just 44% of the nation's private high schools offer these advanced courses.

Research clearly shows that when you control for the social economic status of the student's family, public school students outperform private school students on national standardized tests.

Private schools are 44% more likely to have a teacher with 3 or fewer years of teaching experience than are public schools

Public Schools Lead Private Schools in Attracting and Retaining Qualified Teachers: Although keeping teachers in the profession is a serious problem for our public schools, public schools are much more likely to keep teachers than private schools are. Private school teachers are 64% more likely to leave the profession than public school teachers are
 
2005-09-16 10:19:40 PM
The problem is, for the most part, the folks who are good parents and will use that time to the advantage of the development of their child already plan for this and are able to do it. Many families go single income for a while when a kid comes along, plus many companies do offer forms of leave, some of it even paid.

If you tell everyone that you get a year off work every time you pop out a kid, do you really think you will rein in welfare?

As it stands now, the people having the most kids nowdays are the ones who can least afford it.
 
2005-09-16 10:20:16 PM
koan,

which is funny, cause some of the hardest working folks I know are Hispanic.

How many whiteys do you know who work 3 jobs, one full time and two part time? [rhetorical]
 
2005-09-16 10:20:23 PM
EQUUSDC

You mean 'how *some* Americans think'?

Don't mean to correct ya, but I like helping my fellow man, wether they be Norskies, Krauts, or even Polacks. Lutherans or Catholics. I love all gods children.

More people shopuld try this approach, the high road works even better when you're surrounded by ststes competing with each other to see who can build the most wal-marts and pay the lowest wages.
 
2005-09-16 10:21:16 PM
Do black or hispanic people think differently than white people?

Did you watch any of the early hurricane coverage?
 
2005-09-16 10:21:53 PM
Johnny Golgotha


Attractive and sexually liberated blond women, no Christian fundamentalists, easygoing lifestyle, free healthcare, and no warmongering government that sucks corporate cock. That's it, I'm buying some warm clothes and moving!

I'm waving goodby
//glad to be an American
 
2005-09-16 10:22:58 PM
Well this whole business of maternity and paternity leave is all fine and dandy, but I cannot get over the 7 weeks of paid vacation I get here in UK. This is in addition to unlimited sick days (with a personal declaration) and bank holidays.

What's amazing is that if a holiday (like new years or christmas) falls on a weekend, you get the next working day off. And, and, and no-one works between Christmas and New Years and everyone HAS to take atleast 14 days off in a row atleast once every year, and on and on. Tell you what, I have never been more productive in my life than I am these days with all these days off.
 
2005-09-16 10:23:33 PM
2005-09-16 10:16:38 PM koan

I like how people pretend to compare ethnic diversity between Sweden and the US while what they really want to say is that socialism wouldn't work here because the blacks and latinos would bankrupt the country.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Socialism wouldn't work in the US not because "the blacks and latinos would bankrupt the country" (I wonder where or how you came up with that). It wouldn't work because nobody could agree on how to implement anything, even if everyone agreed that we should have this or that social program. (And by nobody agreeing, this could include disagreement among blacks, whites, and latinos. Or among the self-employed and the non-self-employed, or any groups you could possibly think of.) People can agree on an end, but not the means, and thus the whole thing goes down the shiatter. Look at Bush--he spends a ton of government money for the "good of society," which in a sense is a socialist tendency. That's what government is, implementing social programs.
 
2005-09-16 10:23:35 PM
MrBelvedere: Did you watch any of the early hurricane coverage?

And that is my signal to make good my earlier promise to go to bed.
 
2005-09-16 10:23:41 PM
MrBelvedere

ohhhh man.... there is always someone who wants to go there. I am stepping out of the line of fire.
 
2005-09-16 10:24:40 PM
Sounds about right to me
 
2005-09-16 10:25:15 PM
2005-09-16 10:12:33 PM swahnhennessy

Guy In Guy Incognito: Both. If you use both as factors, the picture you end up with is that Sweden is VERY homogeneous, especially compared to the US.

But what does homogeny have to do with social programs? Either someone is a citizen or they are not. Do black or hispanic people think differently than white people? Do Polish-Americans have wildly diverse opinions compared to Irish-Americans? Do Turkish Swedes behave differently than Scandinavian Swedes? I fail to see how a person's point of orgin has any bearing on why a system such as the one in Sweden would work in a given country or not.
------------------------------------------------------------

Then you fail to recognize or comprehend ethnic diversity. Read some of my later posts.
 
2005-09-16 10:25:22 PM
MinnesotaJack:
You mean 'how *some* Americans think'?

...no, I mean "collectively," which means "the sum of all of it." That's a far cry different statement than saying "all X think this way." Sort of a riff on "none of us is as stupid as all of us."

This is why at most points in time 50% of this country can't understand what the fark the country as a whole is thinking.
 
2005-09-16 10:26:25 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito
Bottom line: Sweden is WAY more homogeneous than America. There's no denial of this fact, whether it's 3%, 5%, or 15% non-ethnic Scandinavians.

Hey, when I was in Sweden, I saw a black guy.

Yeah, only one.

Spent some time there, and yeah, there are immigrants, and non-ethnic scandinavians, but it's nowhere like here. For example I could ride a bus in the city and not be the only white person there.

cot
I don't know why people are so down on the voucher system. At least hold schools accountable by allowing people to choose. Private schools demonstrably do more with less.

Well, my dislike of vouchers comes from a private school background. As a religious school, one of their key tenets was every family had to sacrifice something. For families that had the money, it was tuition. For families without, they had to contribute in the form of service. Students and parents together had to do a certain number of hours of volunteer work for the school, and tuition was waved, either in part or full depending on the situation. The school prided itself on never turning down anyone on basis of money.
 
2005-09-16 10:27:39 PM
About the military service: Women can apply for military service if they want to, but its mandatory for men. Due to budgetcuts only about 50% actually do the military service. Military service is like a 7 month daycare for those in the late teens...
 
2005-09-16 10:28:22 PM
Submitter is an asshat

Article mentions that somewhat suggested expanding maternity leave, yes thats right no American has ever suggested that before. dumbass
 
2005-09-16 10:31:57 PM
swahnhennessy

I lived in Japan for 5 years and upon return to the states - my brain is almost destroyed! don't come back! stay where you like it! Your name is similar to a guy I work with at MFC
 
2005-09-16 10:33:05 PM
cot

I don't know why people are so down on the voucher system. At least hold schools accountable by allowing people to choose. Private schools demonstrably do more with less.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Social programs exist to fulfill the need offered by the blank in this sentence:

Everybody in this country is entitled to ___blank___

If you don't think "a decent education up through secondary school" belongs in that blank, then my ensuing argument doesn't apply to you (although I think you have other issues).

If you do, then think about what happens with privatization. Sure, schools that suck will shrivel up and die, while new ones will pop up, but at any given time, there will ALWAYS be a bunch of shiatty schools on the brink of elimination. Just like there are always a bunch of shiatty businesses on the brink of elimination. Thus, the social program known as "education" fails to keep its promise because it's automatically letting down a bunch of kids at any given time.

Now you might say, well, the "bunch" will still be a whole lot smaller than the number of kids right now getting a shiatty education. This might be true, but it just means we need to rework the system in a way that doesn't involve privatization. Educating every single person without resorting to communism is probably unrealistic, but at least we can try. Privatization means giving up.
 
2005-09-16 10:36:25 PM
Article mentions that somewhat suggested expanding maternity leave, yes thats right no American has ever suggested that before. dumbass

You read this part, right?

At the moment, parents get paid benefits for thirteen months of parental leave. Two of these months are reserved for the mother, and two for the father. In addition, parents can take out a further 90 days leave paid at 60 kronor per day.


They're suggesting a bit more, but already have (I suspect) more than America ever will.
 
2005-09-16 10:36:25 PM
Lunger perentel leefe-a prupused

Perents shuoold be-a eble-a tu teke-a oooot feeffteee munths perentel leefe-a, ooff vheech feefe-a munths shuoold be-a reserfed fur iech perent.

Thees is zee prupusel frum zee Kerl-Petter Thurveldssun, vhu hes cerreeed oooot a gufernment inqooury intu zee issooe-a, und vhu presented hees feendings oon Thoorsdey.

In eddeeshun, he-a sooggests thet muzeers shuoold get 30 deys peeed leefe-a beffure-a zeey ere-a ixpected tu geefe-a burt, und thet bot perents shuoold be-a eble-a tu teke-a 30 deys ooffff effter zeeur cheeld is born.

"I em fery pleesed veet zee prupusels thet I hefe-a poot furverd," seeed Thurveldssun.

"Tekee es a vhule-a, zeey plece-a a greet imphesees oon vhet is best fur zee cheeld, es vell es geefing un incentife-a fur bot zee muzeer und zee fezeer tu teke-a sooffffeecient time-a ooffff tu defelup cluse-a coontect veet zeeur cheeld."

Et zee mument, perents get peeed beneffeets fur thurteee munths ooff perentel leefe-a. Tvu ooff zeese-a munths ere-a reserfed fur zee muzeer, und tvu fur zee fezeer. In eddeeshun, perents coonteke-a oooot a foorzeer 90 deys leefe-a peeed et 60 krunur per dey.
 
2005-09-16 10:39:20 PM


Oh Cletus, tonight you can knock me up again!
 
2005-09-16 10:39:34 PM
Health coverage is pricey here in the states too.
 
2005-09-16 10:40:03 PM
Jesus Christ, why would anyone need that much time off just because they spawned? Guess what, we don't need any more people on the planet. If you must reproduce, do it on your own time and don't drag your employer into your nightmare.
 
2005-09-16 10:41:01 PM
kaikara

I was getting bored with all the hemming and hawing. lol

Canada has a much more strict immigration policy than we do. It IS harder for blacks and hispanics to integrate into American society than for your average Polish or Hungarian guy. Its not neccessarily their fault, but to deny it is to deny reality. And the blacks that DO integrate well usually get called Uncle Toms by their tolerant brethren on the Left side of the aisle.
 
2005-09-16 10:42:52 PM
Jesus Christ, why would anyone need that much time off just because they spawned? Guess what, we don't need any more people on the planet. If you must reproduce, do it on your own time and don't drag your employer into your nightmare.

Wow, I bet the ladies think you're a real catch.
 
2005-09-16 10:45:53 PM
MUGATO
Exactly.
These American employees need to 'get over' their irrational and probably harmful obsession with their famies and get on with what makes the world go around -- enough production to pay for the new swimming pool for the boss' lakeside home!
 
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