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(Guardian)   American wine producers banned from using the word "Chateau" on their wines unless they can actually see a castle from their vineyard   (guardian.co.uk ) divider line
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11848 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Sep 2005 at 10:53 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-09-16 11:59:33 AM  
my people?

the French'll be thrilled to hear that
 
2005-09-16 12:01:25 PM  
Pass me that bag of that toilet wine
 
2005-09-16 12:03:12 PM  
alexanderplatz

You cracked me up with that one.

I think there's a number of housing subdivisions that need to get some "quiet springs" and forested "groves."
 
2005-09-16 12:03:52 PM  
Tirdun's Castle Corporation, incorporating TODAY! Get in on the ground floor of this new enterprise. We specialize in building full-size castles in record time using only the cheapest and most widely available materials!

TCC: Hell, its a castle if we say it is!
 
2005-09-16 12:03:52 PM  
Words facing curbs on US bottles: chteau, classic, clos, cream, crusted, fine, late bottled vintage, vintage, vintage character, noble, ruby, superior, sur lie, tawny

vintage:
n. 1. The yield of wine or grapes from a vineyard or district during one season.
2. Wine, usually of high quality, identified as to year and vineyard or district of origin.
3. The year or place in which a wine is bottled.

adj.
1. Of or relating to a vintage.
2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.

WTF?
 
2005-09-16 12:03:58 PM  
Most of the people here are misinterperating this rule out of ignorance.

I know why certain terms are used. I do think it is silly to outlaw terms that have been in use for years. People who know their wine aren't going to drink Chablis from California anyway, because there's a good chance it'll suck. But a lot of table wines use those terms because they are blends of different types of grapes.

You are welcome to research where your wine came from, I'm smart enough to know a wine labeled Burgundy made in Oregon is not from Burgundy, France. As it stands my supermarket's wine section knows enough to label wines by Geography anyway, and it says 'Imported from France'.

If the Europeans are too stupid to realize where a California Chablis is coming from, fark em.

The world would be a lot better off if people didn't get their panties in a knot about this kind of shiat. Frankly I think that wine snobs will love this because it allows them to talk down to people about what 'technically constitutes a madeira'.

Just enjoy the farking wine. Don't be a goddamn term nazi about it.
 
2005-09-16 12:04:51 PM  
SacriliciousBeerSwiller-

Actually, the "Champaigne" thing is about the method used as much as the region where it's produced. (Google "methode champagnoise" if you're interested.) It was invented there, and it's reasonable that they would want to lay claim to it.

You can't call whisky "Bourbon" unless it's made in the US, you can't call it "Scotch" unless it's made in Scotland. You can't even spell it "WhiskEy" unless it comes from Ireland or Canada. I don't see why everyone is in a tizzy over this "Chateau" thing.
 
2005-09-16 12:06:09 PM  
Crown Of Negativity: Hush now, I'm enjoying some fine Chateau Le Budweiser.


I am not a beer drinker but there is a beer in Canada called Pillsner (sp?) that people call Prairie champagne. Its what all the white trash/farming folk drink I guess.
 
2005-09-16 12:07:16 PM  
[image from bullyhill.com too old to be available]
 
2005-09-16 12:09:03 PM  
[image from us.st5.yimg.com too old to be available]

Seriously though, I really do love French wine and think this is a good step forward. Now if the US would get rid of their retarded laws governing the shipping of wine from state to state.
 
2005-09-16 12:09:47 PM  
This is a good thing, not to mention you probably don't want wine from a producer who misuses these terms in the first place. The vineyards who are putting out good wine are already using names of their own without borrowing some term that means jackshiat to their product.

some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac: You can't call whisky "Bourbon" unless it's made in the US, you can't call it "Scotch" unless it's made in Scotland. You can't even spell it "WhiskEy" unless it comes from Ireland or Canada.

Technically you can't call it "Bourbon" unless it's made in Bourbon County, Kentucky. And "Whisky" is Scotch.
 
2005-09-16 12:09:51 PM  
On second thought, let's NOT go to the Chateau. 'Tis a silly place.

[image from moviemail-online.co.uk too old to be available]
 
2005-09-16 12:10:29 PM  
miscreant-

Way to see the bright side. More good wine moving around is best for everyone. Let's get rid of the BS winemakers who all jumped on the California bandwagon back in the 70's, 80's and 90's.
 
2005-09-16 12:11:15 PM  
some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac

Fark you snob.

Oh and Vi is way better than Emacs.
 
2005-09-16 12:13:50 PM  
Nightsweat-

Best American wines? I'm no expert, but I'm a big fan of Napa German-style wines and Oregon Pinots.

Congratulations on knowing your shiat about American wine. Kudos to you, Sir. I wish more people would take the time to listen and learn (and drink) like you have.
 
2005-09-16 12:16:37 PM  
No chateau for you!

[image from movieprop.com too old to be available]
 
2005-09-16 12:19:07 PM  
swahnhennessy, I think that's only for Kentucky Bourbon. You can make bourbon any place in the US, it's the percent of corn mash.

/emacs is better
 
2005-09-16 12:21:04 PM  
OK, Frenchy. You can have your wine names. But if I'm ever in Paris and I see "Texas Chili" on the menu, you'd better have the shipping papers as proof that it's genuine or I'm kicking some French ass.

/because that situation is pretty farkin likely.
 
2005-09-16 12:21:18 PM  
joedredd: we have "Chicago town pizza" in the uk, in fine print on the ad it says "made in Ireland"

Eh, that's nitpicking, Chicago is full of their cousins anyway.
 
2005-09-16 12:22:25 PM  
This is just another last-ditch effort on the part of the French wineries. They've been going down the tubes for a while now.
 
2005-09-16 12:23:06 PM  
bdub77-

You missed my point. It's better for everyone if things are labelled accurately. If you want to label wine from Oregon "Burgundy style", that's great. It reduces confusion. But calling wine from Califoria, "Bordeaux" confuses the market about what "Bordeaux" means. Most americans don't even know that Chablis is a place.

The term "Meritage" is a fine substitute for "Bordeaux" in California. It conveys which grapes were used, the style, and where it comes from. What's wrong with the US vinyards coming up with a few more standardizations of their own? Why steal and destroy the meaning of "Chablis"?

What I'm trying to say is that it's not about snobbery, it's about helping more people get the wines they want. That's in everyone's best interest.
 
2005-09-16 12:24:45 PM  
No pics from the movie `Sideways'? Come on, people.

/too old, stupid, lazy to post images
 
2005-09-16 12:26:18 PM  
There is only one kind of wine I care about, and it is port wine. The rest of you port wine lovers know what I'm talking about.

[image from svguide.com too old to be available]
 
2005-09-16 12:27:08 PM  
justanotherfarkinfarker: t's the percent of corn mash.


You are correct:

There are strict laws governing just what a Bourbon must be to be labeled as such. For example, at least 51 percent of the grain used in making the whiskey must be corn (most distillers use 65 to 75 percent corn). Bourbon must be aged for a minimum of two years in new, white oak barrels that have been charred. Nothing can be added at bottling to enhance flavor, add sweetness or alter color.

Bourbon can be made anywhere in the United States. All but a couple of brands are made in Kentucky, and Kentucky is the only state allowed to put its name on the bottle. And as Kentucky distillers are quick to point out, Bourbon is not Bourbon unless the label says so.


Taken from here.
 
2005-09-16 12:27:49 PM  
Mr. Anon-

Blow me, Nerd.

Oh and Chassagne Montrachet is far superior to Puligny Montrachet.
 
2005-09-16 12:31:32 PM  
I can't decide who is worse in this thread:

The dumbasses who think there aren't world-class wines made in the U.S. or the idiots who think it's OK to call sparkling wine "Champagne" when it wasn't made there.
 
2005-09-16 12:31:45 PM  
Here in housing-boom-addled California we need a similar restriction on the asinine names they give to housing developments.

You shouldn't be able to call a place Mont/monte/mountain/heights when you're on the floor of a valley.
 
2005-09-16 12:32:44 PM  
We'll stop calling are wines "chateau" if they quit referring to their defenses as an "Army" or "Military Force". Can anyone say 'I surrender' in French ??
 
2005-09-16 12:34:54 PM  
SocrapticMethod: But if I'm ever in Paris and I see "Texas Chili" on the menu

I hope to god I never see Texas chili on a menu in Paris.
/from TX
//likes chili
 
2005-09-16 12:35:30 PM  
Yee haw. Confront wine drinking with patriotism, throw in some Jesus, and you guys can start a war over it!

/Freedom wine!
// Idiots.
 
2005-09-16 12:35:49 PM  
CornFedIowan-

Words facing curbs on US bottles: chteau, classic, clos, cream, crusted, fine, late bottled vintage, vintage, vintage character, noble, ruby, superior, sur lie, tawny

vintage:n. 1. The yield of wine or grapes from a vineyard or district during one season.
2. Wine, usually of high quality, identified as to year and vineyard or district of origin.
3. The year or place in which a wine is bottled.

adj.
1. Of or relating to a vintage.
2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.

WTF?


If you really care, this probably refers to its use as #3, specifically in the case of port-style wines. Calling a Porto "vintage 1997" is a claim that all of the grapes in that particuala bottle came only from the 1997 crop, and is also an indicator of high quality. This is as opposed to many lower quality ports that are made from a blend of many years. Recently, the term LBV (late bottle vintage) was also introduced to indicate a high-quality blended port.

This is yet another term that has been adopted and misused by the american market, causing confusion among less educated buyers.
 
2005-09-16 12:35:55 PM  
some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac:

What's wrong with the US vinyards coming up with a few more standardizations of their own? Why steal and destroy the meaning of "Chablis"?

It's not "stealing" for "destroying", it's changing. It's just a word (well, a name, but whatever). If the meaning changes because it starts commonly being used in another way, so be it.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not about snobbery, it's about helping more people get the wines they want. That's in everyone's best interest.

It's not about helping people buy wine. It's about helping ignorant (not used in a derogatory manner) people buy French wine instead of American wine. The people who are choosing their wines based on the "French-ness" of the name probably aren't the ones who want something particular.
 
2005-09-16 12:36:38 PM  
good. americans have been bootlegging french wine for years. i've always thought of american champagnes as the beverage equivalent of those Bruce Li movies from the 80s.
 
2005-09-16 12:37:07 PM  
2005-09-16 11:35:42 AM SacriliciousBeerSwiller


This would be like making it illegal to sell a "Chicago style" hot dog that had ketchup on it (which I've seen outside of Chicago).

But while I feel that such a farkup is disgusting and worthy of the most heinous of physical violations, I'm not about to say that it's worth passing a stupid ass law for.


Agreed. I think this is the only hot dog I'll ever again eat. Nothing can match it (pops).

Oh, and 2005-09-16 11:47:28 AM h2oincfs wins the thread!
 
2005-09-16 12:37:58 PM  
some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac: confusion among less educated buyers.

I like the way those words sound together.
Sounds like an album title.
 
2005-09-16 12:38:02 PM  
bgodot

wherehouse

I cannot believe you typed that. Smoking crack in the boiler room again?
 
2005-09-16 12:38:19 PM  
OK.. showing my ignorance, I realize, but...
Does the Pope own 'Chateauneuf du Pape'? Or however they spell it.
 
2005-09-16 12:39:57 PM  
2005-09-16 12:36:38 PM flavor of the month


good. americans have been bootlegging french wine for years. i've always thought of american champagnes as the beverage equivalent of those Bruce Li movies from the 80s.


Obviously the reason it passed for so many years is because French wine is no better....
 
2005-09-16 12:41:12 PM  
flavor of the month - Come on, you can't honestly be claiming that Bruce Lee Fights Back from the Grave, starring Bruce Lea, is anything but a fantastic piece of cinema!
 
2005-09-16 12:43:05 PM  
The only reason these protectionist laws exist is because the Italians and French fear our wine. We have just as good a product as anything they can muster, and they want to somehow produce a false rift in the mindset of the consumer, so they can say, "See? Our wine is a vintage from a castle. You Americans suck."

Two words: fark Europe.
 
2005-09-16 12:44:39 PM  
Well to be perfectly honest I'm under the impression they don't want wine producers to allow the name 'Burgundy' on the label anywhere, even though 'Burgundy style' to me is fine as it describes a method of making something.

It's not the naming convention that bothers me as much as it's another stupid law the US doesn't particularly need.

People who know their wine probably won't buy a wine labeled Chablis from California.

People who don't know their wine won't care and will buy probably the cheapest wine or randomly choose one regardless of locale. The law changes nothing, it's just another law on the record.
 
2005-09-16 12:47:37 PM  
Crime against humanity:

[image from home.comcast.net too old to be available]
 
2005-09-16 12:49:24 PM  
Bucephalus-

It's just a word (well, a name, but whatever).

Therein lies the difference. If you name you kid "John", and he gets called "Bob" by a bunch of people, his name doesn't change to "Bob".

As someone that used to work in the wine business, I can tell you that for the last 10 years, the american market has been going through a lot of changes. In the 70's and 80's, no one here knew jack about wine. They drank Martini and Rossi, and Gallo Chablis. These days, people are beginning to realize that there's a BIG difference between good wine and bad wine, and, more importantly, they're willing to pay for good wine. This created an initial bubble as many, many people tried to make a quick buck with some inferior product and a little good marketing. Disinformation helped those types of businessmen remain on equal footing, becuase there was no standard to adhere to, and no cogent information being passed around, except by wine "snobs". People are finally educating themselves, and getting over their fear of ignorance, and that's a great thing. It means more wine, and better wine. Oregon has been making some killer pinots and kicking ass in Burgundy-style competitions for quite a few years now. We're ready to get our asses out of the kiddie pool, and join France, Italy, and some other countries in the deep end.

As such, it's about time we started calling things what they are. Let the French have "Chateau". We're Americans. I'm sure we can innovate and come up with our own branding. No need to emulate a country that so many of us seem to want to bash, right?
 
2005-09-16 12:50:48 PM  
In italy if it isn't made with just grapes (and nothing else), legally you are not allowed to call it wine.
 
2005-09-16 12:51:39 PM  
I predict the sale of these will increase.

[image from rhcheney.com too old to be available]
 
2005-09-16 12:51:39 PM  
I_Attack_People: Crime against humanity:


I though that stuff was specifically for Brunch Momosas.
You know, Like Andre's 'champaign' style sparkling beverage.
 
2005-09-16 12:54:08 PM  
fj:
What a bunch of snobbish crap.

The snobbish crap here is pretentious American wine producers using French words to sell their wine.

Personally, I say Frak 'em. The US should in turn place restrictions on European wines. I am quite certain that more European wines are sold in the US than the other way around.

I don't know, personally I drink more Californian than French wine. And none of the Californian wines I buy have the word "Chateau" in their names; they're good wines, and the producers don't need stupid tricks or fake names to sell them.
 
2005-09-16 12:54:30 PM  
bdub77

These are also prohibited:
burgundy, chablis, champagne, chianti, claret, haut-sauterne, hock, madeira, mlaga, marsala, Moselle, port, retsina, Rhine, sauternes, sherry and tokay.

They can't use port? What BS.


American wineries can't call their products "port" now. They have to label them "American port." The only difference will be that, from now on, they'll have to call it something entirely different, like "Taylor Lakes Sweet Dessert Wine" or "Livingston Cellars Crap in a Bottle."
 
2005-09-16 12:54:47 PM  
CornFedIowan: WTF?

They mean "vintage" in terms of port. Makes some sense in context of "crusted, late bottled vintage, vintage character, ruby".
 
2005-09-16 12:55:35 PM  
some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac: As someone that used to work in the wine business


How do you feel about Georgian wines?
There is a place near me that sells them, but I have not yet tried them. I ask because I'm kind of a wine noob. Mostly like lots of body, but dry at the same time. Chainti or some Spanish wines for example. The French ones that I have tried were too acidic for me, specifically, Cotes du Rhone.
 
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