As far as rights of others goes.. I say if it don't hurt me go for it but the women here were the ones hurt. Rights of ONE person (two if you count the cousin) is more important than the other women who were there?
As for CtrlAltDelete. IT seems that if it isn't HER experss topic that she wants defended it really doesn't mattter to her..
/Go Fat People Haters
//Fat people arent human
///God knows I like me a fat woman.

WelakaWombat: As far as rights of others goes.. I say if it don't hurt me go for it but the women here were the ones hurt. Rights of ONE person (two if you count the cousin) is more important than the other women who were there?
As for CtrlAltDelete. IT seems that if it isn't HER experss topic that she wants defended it really doesn't mattter to her..
/Go Fat People Haters
//Fat people arent human
///God knows I like me a fat woman.

Just like how your right to swing your fists wildly in the air ends at my nose, his right to pretend to be a woman ends at their privacy.

Oh, I don't hit people and I don't do anything that I am aware of that would hurt anyone. If someone has a body image issue and wants to live as a woman, ain't like it's my business. I know a lady that is TG in Lauderdale and two that are Post Op in Austin, Tx.. They are women as far as I care. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck.. Hell, to me I call it a duck.
Lables are for soup cans.

CtrlAltDelete, I agree that they should have made accomidations for this lady. There is no reason for her to be arrested. There is a major difference from a cross dresser and a TG person. At least there is from what I have been taught by the 3 that I know.

woah, I was just reading your blog.. I have not said a bad word about you. I joked a little way up there but I have not or would not threaten you, wish you harm, or even try to make you have a bad day. Please rething that last name mentioned there

CtrlAltDelete: Xanthan Gum, Inflatable Jesus, Oracle, Wombat, etc.,.. I'm not asking you to change your opinion anymore, I'm not blaming you for the death threats, either. shiat, man- this is Fark; where else could I have a decent conversation? I just want you to see, to recognize, that there are people who would like nothing more than to see people like Arpollo Vicks dead.

Even though I disagree with you, my heart honestly goes out for you, no one deserves that kind of treatment.

I appologise if anything I said caused someone to threaten you, that's just not accpetable.

How sad. Some of you farkers reading this are really messed up.

For those of you insisting that this is simple, and this poor person deserves to be abused and treated as an outcast ,I'm reminded of my favorite Bertrand Russell quote: "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are full of doubt."

Wow... I'm really glad I decided to go to bed last night, and didn't stay up to follow this thread... and I'm amazed by the number of transgendered people on Fark! It's nice to know I'm not alone.

To those who have been standing up for us: thanks!

To those who are offended by us: I'm really sorry that the world isn't the way you want it to be. Honestly, I wish the world was that way, too... it just isn't. We're just doing the best we can in a society that doesn't really have a place for us. But we do exist, and most of us are not, in fact, mentally ill. And we're really quite harmless, once you get to know us.

Just to add my .02 - THAT'S FUKD UP.
If the responsible asshats are still reading here please feel free to go die at your earliest possible convenience. Feel free to send your lame threats to me (addy in profile), I could use the entertainment.

Well here we are, 24 plus hours later, and not one supporter of Mr. Arpollo has posted a soapy, wet, and nekkid picture of himself/herself/itself for casual perusal by persons of the opposite gend... transgend... well no nekkid pics for whatever reason. This has to be one of the most hypocritical events on Fark since the last time the libertards came out in force and brayed their support for something in principle that they wouldn't touch with an eleven foot pole in practice. For shame libertards, for shame. Turn off your computers and no Fark for 3 days. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Strangely enough, this article has nothing to do with Michael Jackson....

2005-09-11 07:50:41 PM CtrlAltDelete

Alright. Here it is. You want to talk about animosity? You want to understand the fear and hatred over this issue? My profile links to my website, my site has my e-mail address. Because of this thread, I have recieved 10 pieces of hate mail and 2 death threats, one of which mentioned my family. It stops here.
========================================================

Sadly - I'm not at all surprised. Please take these threats seriously & report them. As I'm sure you know - transgender people are subject to disproprotionate levels of hate violence. The Southern Poverty Law Center study notes more hate murders of this small minority than for those motivated by race, religion & sexual orientation COMBINED. And most municipalities don't even count anti-transgender hate violence in there stats. I know this as I'm a member of the Philadelphia Police Advisory Commission and Philly doesn't.

Can anyone wonder why many transgender people are reluctant to identify themselves? Especially in situations where violence is already reported?

I've known 3 transgender people who were murdered in hate crimes. I wouldn't identify myself as someone with a history of transsexuality on this list if I were - I applaud your bravery. But do take precautions. The anger and denigration people express isn'talways limited to the verbal variety.

Good Luck kiddo!

========================================================
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=149
'Disposable People'
A wave of violence engulfs the transgendered, whose murder rate may outpace that of all other hate killings
By Bob Moser

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Don't make fun of her. She/he/it has already been traumatized.
Ctrl-Alt_Del: [posts picture of Jesus with caption]'Jesus Hates Homophobes. Don't piss off Jesus'

What about all the people you just offended by using Jesus as a joke?

2005-09-11 10:29:30 PM OscarTamerz


Well here we are, 24 plus hours later, and not one supporter of Mr. Arpollo has posted a soapy, wet, and nekkid picture of himself/herself/itself for casual perusal by persons of the opposite gend... transgend... well no nekkid pics for whatever reason. This has to be one of the most hypocritical events on Fark since the last time the libertards came out in force and brayed their support for something in principle that they wouldn't touch with an eleven foot pole in practice. For shame libertards, for shame.
==================================================

Don't be asking of others what you're not willing to do yourself Ms. Ouss-Car. Let's see some soapy wet nekkid pictures of yerself - so we can judge wether we should support your rights. Include some of your mother while you're at it. Come on - we know you took them.

Whatever you were born with, thats what you are. FACT.
People who want to be transexuals need mental help, just like people who are crazy.

xen0blue Whatever you were born with, thats what you are. FACT. People who want to be transexuals need mental help, just like people who are crazy.

Yeah, if God wanted me to be transgendered, I would have been born transgendered!

Uh... guess what sweetie? I was born with this! Honest! I even have the scars to prove it! (wanna see... giggle!)

/If you're ever in Texas in 1972, see if you can find my uterus, ok?
//They didn't ask my opinion when I had surgery at age 3.
///If any farkers have a tardis, let me know...

2005-09-11 10:57:51 PM xen0blue


Whatever you were born with, thats what you are. FACT.
People who want to be transexuals need mental help, just like people who are crazy.
============================================

Indeed - people shouldn't question God's judgement in making transsexuals. God don't make junk!

Who can know God's purpose? Ineffable as God may be; I wouldn't be surprized if God did this for your benefit - to provide you an opportunity to grow in compassion.

OscarTamerz Well here we are, 24 plus hours later, and not one supporter of Mr. Arpollo has posted a soapy, wet, and nekkid picture of himself/herself/itself for casual perusal

Actually, I don't know if I count as a supporter of Ms. Arpollo; for all I know she was rude an exercised very poor judgement. I wasn't there, so it's not for me to say. But the scenario is very scary for someone like me.

As for the pictures...

Every time I stare at my soft, pendulous, soapy wet boobies in the shower, I say to myself, "Gee, I should really take a picture and post it to Fark..."

Then I giggle myself silly!

/Your imagination is better anyway...
//... but they're defintely NOT man-boobs!

Wow. I'm actually surprised at teh amount of compassion I'm seeing here on Fark. Especially when it comes to issues of sexuality. I expected the thread to go to infinity (do they do that anymore? I see higher numbers than ever now) with criticism, but I've actually seen a disproportionately high number of posts asking for understanding and compassion. Is this is Bizarro world?

/if so, don't send me home

I'm not going to read the whole forum because it will just make me mad.

1. An amazinly large portion of posters here are insensative arsehats! Just because someone is different doesn't make them WRONG.

2. This thread reaffirmed my lack of faith on people's ability for compassion when it isn't demanded by political correctness.

3. With the hate, and even just the "ewws" and dumb tuck it or duct tape jokes, I am NOT surprised Bush was elected. With this forum (by and large it seems to be left leaning) still "grossed out" by someone's life choices it makes perfect sense that the super-conservatives got pretty much everyone worked up about the "gay" issues.

Thank you all (most) for further weakening my faith in other people, thank god this is America where your ignoramus views will eventually change and your hate will not last forever. God bless America. (<NOT sarcastic)


//rant follows///

It is sad that people in America of all places have the audacity to think that other people should not be allowed to live the way they want. Its amazing that people here still think that NOT EVERYONE is entitled to the same rights. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm talking about being an American. What you are ideally gonna be as an American is someone who is tolerant of all persons and lifestyles. The reason that American is such a great country is because we were founded on the idea that ALL people were equal and that ALL people deserved freedom. I may not be a transgendered individual but I know one thing for sure, I am more of an American patriot than quite a few of the people out there! I believe in freedom for all and rights to be given to all people no matter what. I HATE certain religious groups, in particular that F'n Phelps guy, I hate ultraconservative religious people of all kinds because I think they try and push their views on other people even though those people should be free to live as they wish. Despite all of that I would not for a second wish that those people that I hate be silenced in ANY way, I want them to have the complete right to offend me to no end...and you know why? Because THAT IS WHY AMERICA IS SO GREAT, they can live in the same country as ultra-liberals and social progressives and such and we all make it work.
The problem comes when people start beliving that there should be restrictions placed on people's freedoms simply because their existing offends their beliefs! This is at the root of tyrrany. And if you haven't made the connection, the reason most of the Jihad groups have declared war on the US is because they either hate or envy our freedom. They hate the fact that Americans are able to do whatever they want...so by you trying to force upon other people a certain mindset, and here I personally mean a conservative mindset, you are doing just what terrorist want. They want us to stop being us, either by death or by a change in our country so extreme that we are not even recognized as the same country. The way to beat these terrorist is not by invading countrys our killing thousands of innocent people, or even a few. The way to win is to be what our founding fathers envisioned us to be, a haven for free thinking people who are not lead blindly by bureaucracy, and a land where all were free to lead the life they wished.

So to finish my rant, BE A PATRIOT BY EMBRACING FREEDOM FOR ALL PEOPLE,AND PISS OFF OSAMA BIN LADEN BY DOING SO!


////i just need an outlet for my frustration with conservative people

///// (you will probably think me nutz after this next part)

i find it interesting that before WW2(godwin I hope)there was a terrorist attack that provoked the people of Germany into raising the powers of the police forces. They were all consolidated (!) into one department that was called the Reichssicherheitshauptamt. If you translate that it comes to Reich Main Security Office...sounds suspiciously like "homeland security department". If you never have heard the term Zeitgeist maybe you should find out what it means, we are in a similar one to pre WW2 and if we are not careful we as a society will definately regret some of the things that will/have happened!!!!!
(one last thing, I hate Bush but am not afraid because it is said that the second embodiment of the devil will be someone EVERYONE loves! so this definately ain't Bush! yay!)

This thread is one of the most entertaining threads in a while. Keep up the good work.
/did you see the size of her farking hands?
//why would you wanna cut off your penis anyway, makes no sense
///my two cents.

Ok, so whats next? NAMBLA supporter showers in elementary school gym bathroom, and we're all supposed to "respect" his way of life?

You supporters of this he/she/it and it's cohorts make me want to vomit. I will continue to have compassion for REAL HUMAN ISSUES, not for this type of udder garbage that is ruining this once great society.

How about this...I feel like punching you all in the face. I DEMAND you tolerate that, and accept it by allowing it to happen.

Sorry not to have read the entire board, but its past my bedtime :). Despite this, I hope that anyone who responds to me takes the time to at least read this all the way through.

Basically, I just want to say that, in my opinion, intersexed individuals have the right to choose their sexual identity. However, Pat off the street should probably be tested, both psychologically and physically before reassignment. It is my opinion that a lot of transexual individuals have not had this done, or, at least, done well.

That said, I also know that we live in an imperfect world where not everyone fits into my opinion. So to answer the main question presented by this thread: this woman should not have been arrested. Or for Xanthan et al.: this man should not have been arrested. Whatever. The validity of transexuality is not the point.

I have no idea why some people get so ridiculously bent out of shape over this, and the fact that CtrlAltDelete is getting death threats blows my goddamn mind.

Someone born with an abnormality (in this case, the entirely wrong physical gender), has done nothing to you, does not pose a threat to you, and has done nothing to deserve your little threats. Would you make the same threats against someone with albinism or dwarfism, or are you just hung up on the sexual nature of this particular disorder?

If it's blowing your mind, your mind probably needs to be blown. Gender isn't always a clear-cut, either/or issue. All the screaming, crying, and threatening in the world isn't going to make it so, either. Get an education and grow the fark up.

Lots of pointless arguing about the validity of transexuals, next to no discussion about how to best practically handle this particular situation.

Assuming this person had a penis, I'd make the call they have to use the mens' room. I'd say the feelings of the women using the womens' showers would far outweigh what made this one person more comfortable. As for the feelings of the guys, commonsense about our society generally says that the guys would less likely consider it criminal activity for somebody womanesque to shower in the mens' room, especially if they had a penis.

You'd have this guy showering in the mens shower?

drunk_puppy: the reason most of the Jihad groups have declared war on the US is because they either hate or envy our freedom.

I agree with most of what you've posted, but unfortunately have to disagree with this sentence. They hate American foreign policy, not the rights of Americans within US borders. And sadly, they have many good reasons for it. This country has farked up a lot of shiat around the world for its own gain but then we expect everyone who we messed with to be benevolent toward us once we've withdrawn.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, this guy/girl has suffered a helluvalot and the farkers above who say "this sicko should live with what they were given because i believe it and it therefore is right" are just compounding the problems in our society

/rant

FarkerReef: why would you wanna cut off your penis anyway, makes no sense

Because I swear chicks have way better orgasms than we do, and I wish I could find out. This guy was obviously brave enough to do so.

RadioGuy2k: Ok, so whats next? NAMBLA supporter showers in elementary school gym bathroom, and we're all supposed to "respect" his way of life?

Hey, look, it's the Slippery Slope argument! We weren't talking about sexual abuse of minors, try to focus, mmmkay?

You supporters of this he/she/it and it's cohorts make me want to vomit. I will continue to have compassion for REAL HUMAN ISSUES, not for this type of udder garbage that is ruining this once great society.

Udder garbage? Why are you bringing cows into this?

Transgenderism is a "real human issue". The only thing it's ruining, however, is your cut-and-dried black-and-white worldview. The rest of society isn't terribly harmed by RuPaul.

How about this...I feel like punching you all in the face. I DEMAND you tolerate that, and accept it by allowing it to happen.

Something tells me that an explanation of why your analogy sucks would be beyond you. Try not to punch anything.

At least it sounds like she got a lot of nice support from people in the end.

considering it's a pre-op, that's the only place available

CtrlAltDelete: I have recieved 10 pieces of hate mail and 2 death threats, one of which mentioned my family.
Xanthan Gum: It'd be great if you posted them here.

first things first.. you were ignored by CtrlAltDel a long time ago.. secondly, you shouldnt make it sound like youre proud of your work..

personally, im a pretty rational, logical and empathetic guy. now, being a penised individual, i do take a little offense to everyone saying "if the transgender in question wouldve used the mens shower, they would have gotten the shiat kicked out of them".. maybe im just not a violent male, though..

the whole transgender thing kinda makes me uncomfortable.. and im glad i didnt touch this thread until now as i probably wouldve ended up with all my limbs in my mouth by now..

/CtrlAltDel: thats pretty farked up about people spamming hate on you.. i would recommend looking into tracing the said emails and evaluating your legal options.. maybe some site like >> http://emaildetective.com/ << could help..

SfK: personally, im a pretty rational, logical and empathetic guy. now, being a penised individual, i do take a little offense to everyone saying "if the transgender in question wouldve used the mens shower, they would have gotten the shiat kicked out of them".. maybe im just not a violent male, though..


Sadly, transgendered women who use men's restrooms have been met with violence on many occasions. Best for them to use the facilities for the gender they're presenting as.

So that's how one gets into the ladies shower at the shelter. I guess my only hope of looking at scabby overweight grandmothers from New Orleans who haven't bathed in days and who have been sleeping on the floor of sports arenas is to call myself Kim and wear a tube top and a mini-skirt. On second thought, perhaps the tranny ought to get some sort of award for even looking at those ladies in the shower.

dramaticpause: Sadly, transgendered women who use men's restrooms have been met with violence on many occasions. Best for them to use the facilities for the gender they're presenting as.

that is sad..

/"I think I could love you people.. I think I could love some of you people if you weren't so afraid of what you don't know.. Sometimes you're so afraid of what you don't know, but you'll say that that's not so..."

Dear I'm_a_moron,

While I doubt you are still on this thread, I'd like to clear up what I'm saying. Having lived in College Station for 19 years of my life while growing up there I worry that this woman/man whatever you prefer is in danger. When I say the townspeople are crazy don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good people in that city and in this state, but there are a LOT of people who don't respect other's lifestyles. I happen to think that a person is a person no matter what they look like, what they wear or who the like to fark.

I lived in that town all those years and I NEVER saw a male couple holding hands or looking anymore than buddy/buddy. Only once did I see female couple holding hands, it was at an outdoor concert, and I remember thinking "damn that's ballsy".

What we think of people being gay is not important, it's the treatment of people, ALL people that matters.

Yours Truly,
Christine

Musicology101: Nudity and sex are not the same thing.


OMG blasphemer! You'll make the Christian Right's head asplode.

hanna2056
OscarTamerz Well here we are, 24 plus hours later, and not one supporter of Mr. Arpollo has posted a soapy, wet, and nekkid picture of himself/herself/itself for casual perusal

Actually, I don't know if I count as a supporter of Ms. Arpollo

Since you changed the correct Mr. to the incorrect Ms. that would make you a supporter and since you didn't post any of those nekkid pictures of yourself that would make you a hypocrite.

Musicology101
That whole "I don't wanna' see it" crap is funny. You do not have a right to not be offended.

Actually you do have a right to be offended, it's codified in law just like any other right like the right not to be verbally threatened or aurally assaulted by loud noises or being forced to view porn displayed on a billboard. The direness of the emergency didn't require any other male to shower with the women. So try to go wienie wagging at your local city building/police station/court house and when the cops drag your nakedass out of the ladies room tell the judge your cogent argument and I'm sure the prosecutor and judge will agree and let you walk. Or possibly not.

CtrlAltDelete:
HE was arrested because HE should not have been in a female shower. HE was a blithering idiot for not waiting until the shower was vacant.

How should a dad react when some perv guy gets into the shower with his little girl? He should knock his head off. But wait! HE says he's a female, though with XY chromosomes and a penis. So, let the perv stay, by all means, because the lunacy and mental disorder that says a man is a woman if he says he is has subverted legal common sense.

benmcapson

You win. That's it, we give up, you're right. All transgendered people have actually been faking it for years upon years, just to get glimpses of opposite-sex naked flesh in showers and bathrooms. The jig is up, and the world should thank you for clarifying it.



(wait for it...wait for it...)

/sarcasm

Let me just say, yes I did go off the other day. So that being said I can safely say that anyone STILL reading this thread has a serious lack of priorities! (yes, myself included).

It all comes down to ONE issue: Respect. From both sides of the issue. If you don't agree with me fine, but its true.

What did that Xanthan Gum write? His post seems to have been deleted.

You know, most of the time humans have spent on the planet nudity has not been a taboo. In many countries around the world it isn't at the present time.

The violence that some of these poor people experience is senseless. What have they ever done to you? Why is it any of your business? Some face the possibility of being arrested for using either bathroom!

Here is a sad story that happened here in California recently.

Gwen lived in Newark, California, USA. Family members knew Gwen as a happy and energetic child who was always laughing and quite active. Gwen, who had originally been given the name Edward, expressed the desire to be female from an early age and just prior to her death she had started to cross live. Gwen Araujo attended public school and a local church with family members until the controversy surrounding her lifestyle grew, at which time she began to withdraw socially. She stopped attending Newark Memorial High School prior to her graduation and began to look for work. She was unable to find a job which her mother believed was the result of intolerance created by her child's gradual transition between genders.

Death

Gwen, who was going by the name "Lida" at the time, was introduced to a circle of friends whom she met during a chance encounter while walking down a local street. The group of young adults enjoyed passing the evening hours with party activities that included playing dominos and consuming drugs and alcohol at the home of Gwen's to-be assailants. Gwen was reported to have engaged in sexual activities with several of the men from the group. She was later invited back to the house where a party was planned a few weeks after she and the men had first met. She wore her mother's peasant blouse to the party. Gwen's mother had asked her not to wear the clothing she had picked out for that evening and expressed her discomfort with Gwen's appearance. Gwen told her mother that she was just being jealous of her. This was the last time Sylvia Guerrero would see her child alive.

At the party on (October 3, 2002) it was discovered, by forced inspection (conducted by one of her assailants and his girlfriend), that Gwen had male genitalia. As rumors circulated, the men that she had sexual relations with became extremely agitated. The men, who had already begun to question Gwen's sex the previous week, revisited the idea of killing her. Once it was discovered that Gwen Araujo was biologically male, she was struck on the head with a soup can and then struck again with a frying pan causing a gash to her head. The blow was so forceful that her head broke a hole through an adjacent wall. Gwen was then taken to the garage of the home, where she was strangled by rope and severely beaten again with a shovel. She was then hog-tied, wrapped in a blanket and placed in the bed of a pick-up truck. Two of the men drove her body to parkland in El Dorado County, California, a wooded area in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, where she was finally buried in a shallow grave.
Wikipedia on Gwen Araujo

Xanthan was a troll who evidently stepped over the line. Good riddance.

Say that one day I wake up and decide that I think like a cat. That I am, in fact, a cat in a human's body.



Wouldn't it be easier to decide that you're a giant beetle?


/Kafka