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(Yahoo)   California Supreme Court allows local bans on gun shows   (story.news.yahoo.com) divider line 560
    More: Hero  
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2921 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Apr 2002 at 11:56 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-04-23 02:00:24 PM  
GunBoy

"So you prefer higher crime rates to lower crime rates, or were you unaware of the fact that crime rates routinely fall in areas that liberalize their conceal carry policies?"

I'd be interested in seeing where your statistics come from.

Living in a country which bans concealed weapons and has a considerably lower crime rate than the US, I find that difficult to swallow.
 
2002-04-23 02:00:27 PM  

THE LIBERAL AGENDA:

Site statistics to convince Americans gun ownership/shows are inherently e-vil™. Trust the only in the Government! Phase out guns.Site statistics to convince Americans car ownership/operation is inherently e-vil™. Trust only in the Government! Phase out cars.Site statitics to convince Americans individual property rights are inherently e-vil™ Trust only in the Government! Phase out individual property rights.Site statistics to convince Americans organized religion is inherently e-vil™. Thou shalt have no other gods before the Government! Phase out religion.Site statistics independent thought more often than not ends badly and leads to e-vil&trad;. Government double-plus good! Phase out double-plus-un-dependant mind-crime.
Welcome to your new country!

CCCP ver. ][
 
2002-04-23 02:00:39 PM  
Actually I could give a rip what laws the govt passes against guns. I won't register any of my guns (other than the ones that already are and I have several that aren't) and I won't give any up even if a law is passed outlawing any of the ones I already have. I have reloading equipment and supplies and can keep myself in lots of ammo. Now if I'm saying that, what are all the bad guys thinking? "Oh gee, they passed another law. I guess I'll give myself up."? Yeah, sure they will. With over 10,000 law gun laws on the books, can anyone show me where any law has prevented the bad guys from breaking it? All gun laws do is restrict the honest citizen and nothing for preventing crime.
 
2002-04-23 02:00:47 PM  
Jebus, (wipes a tear) I'll engrave a plaque for you.
 
2002-04-23 02:01:57 PM  
04-23-02 01:56:37 PM Exploitedclass
(snip)
All of you can say that it is a violation of basic rights, when you admit that New York posting zoning laws on Adult Bookstores was also a violation of basix rights.


I agree with that one. Zoning laws like this are ways of restricting free speech.

Not all right wingers are under the Republican party ... There are also libertarians. (which are not grouped with the christian viewpoint)
 
2002-04-23 02:02:05 PM  
Somebody give me a call when Manassas VA passes a similar law, because until my local government makes the same potentially stupid move, why would I give a poo poo? Why would any of you? And frankly, I'm a fan of the whole "localities can make some of their own rules" idea. Northern VA and Farmville VA are completely different worlds, why would we even try to press the same rules on everyone?
 
2002-04-23 02:02:20 PM  
Freddiemiles1 never said it had to be used to protect someone/something. He just asked when anyone used it. :)
 
2002-04-23 02:02:24 PM  
Shuh tup.

Site statistics to convince Americans organized religion is inherently e-vil

you obviously missed the memo on the catholic church.
 
2002-04-23 02:03:45 PM  
I'm not against guns. I just think less people need them then actually have them.
 
2002-04-23 02:04:45 PM  
who the hell are you guys? where's Odietamo or Chemnuts?
 
2002-04-23 02:04:52 PM  
Exploitedclass: All of you can say that it is a violation of basic rights, when you admit that New York posting zoning laws on Adult Bookstores was also a violation of basix rights.


? I think it is a violation. The others who are upset here would probably agree. Whats your point, exactly?

 
2002-04-23 02:05:12 PM  
Half of you tards don't understand there's a second half to the second amendment. The other half don't understand it.
 
2002-04-23 02:07:22 PM  
Marantz310 wrote "I'd be interested in seeing where your statistics come from."

How much information do you want? Here is as good as place as any to start: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Like many subjects, you will find "experts" on both sides pointing fingers at each other and trying to pick apart each other's data. Ultimately, you have to go read the source material to judge for yourself who is lying.
 
2002-04-23 02:07:25 PM  
Kuta?, exactly.

GunBoy yes and it also used to be legal to own slaves and women were legally prohibited from voting...the past is not necessarily a barrometer for what is valid and just. Luckily for you there seems little chance of a prohibition on tin foil any time soon.
 
2002-04-23 02:10:12 PM  
04-23-02 02:04:45 PM Freddiemiles1

"who the hell are you guys?"

i think we are called "the people" freddie.
 
2002-04-23 02:10:56 PM  

Thanks, Freddiemiles1 ;-).

Puffy999: I think Freddie was getting at the reasons for gun ownership. Weren't you, Freddie?

For me, the reasons are personal protection and fun. For protection, well, I've never had to use it. For fun, I shoot at least every other week, year round. Its a hobby.

 
2002-04-23 02:12:10 PM  
Hero? Man. I didn't know there were communists here on Fark. That's really kind of sad. Alakaheem's a Liberal, and HE thinks this is bullshiat. I'm serious, this makes me sad. How soon before some cretin starts burning our Constitution because it's a "statement?" First that sick-ass cat video thing, and now this. fark I'm depressed.
 
2002-04-23 02:12:43 PM  
C is for California
C is for Commie.
 
2002-04-23 02:13:35 PM  
People who are all into guns have small penises.

/*Reaches for amyl nitrate*/
 
2002-04-23 02:15:27 PM  
Gunboy,

The author himself admits that he has only taken into account the US. Nowhere does he implicitly state that countries with gun control have higher crime rates.

On a national level, it only makes sense that people are free to move from place to place and if they are looking for a victim, they will go to somewhere that makes it easier. That is a given and no I'm not arguing your point for you.

The fact of the matter is I guarantee that if you started focusing your efforts on determining the reason behind the crime itself instead of arming yourself to defend against it, you wouldn't need the guns in the first place.

I live in a safe place where carrying a weapon is illegal. Anyone who does is automatically a criminal. I much perfer it this way.
 
2002-04-23 02:15:47 PM  
By allowing counties to ban events on public property b/c some idiots consider gun shows to "promote violence", you're opening up a wide berth to give them the power to ban anything they want.

We'll see how much you like this HERO tag when counties ban rock concerts b/c they "promote violence", or when they ban the WWF. After all, they promote violence. How about football and boxing? What'll you do when some jerk uses this ruling to ban a beer festival in your area cos they say alcohol "promotes violence"?

You can't pick and choose who/what gets covered under the Constitution.
 
2002-04-23 02:16:46 PM  
04-23-02 01:54:07 PM Bitplayer
04-23-02 01:48:34 PM Christian Bale

Well, there it is in a nutshell isn't it? You "doubt it".


maybe I should have been clearer about the possibility of defeating the UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES with SMALL ARMS:

When I said, "Doubt It" read: No farking way in hell even in the most-convoluted, "Red Dawn"-watching right-wing fantasy.

If you have a differing opinion on this, fine. I wish you luck in your boxing match against Mike Tyson, too.
 
2002-04-23 02:17:29 PM  
i keep forgetting, what is fascism?
 
2002-04-23 02:18:34 PM  
Anybody ever see the documentary "Memorial Day 2000"?
 
2002-04-23 02:21:08 PM  
This is perfect. The lawsuits have failed, maybe this will work. The Jews arm themselves to the teeth; this requires the lives of many more martyrs but we will win. When we fully disarm the Americans, we will make North America our colony with little spilling of martyr's blood (this will save the Saudi's a wad), just like we are now making France our colony. Praise Allah.
 
2002-04-23 02:23:12 PM  
04-23-02 01:18:45 PM Stevarooni
There's also the constitutional right to freedom of speech, Ironbar. Isn't a gun show an exploration of the issue of guns?


Excellent point, Steverooni.
 
2002-04-23 02:26:53 PM  
Blair wrote "Half of you tards don't understand there's a second half to the second amendment. The other half don't understand it."

Hear! Hear! Well said! Most people don't like to think about the first half of the second amendment, or what it means.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the
security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.


First, what does "well regulated" mean? It means properly trained, equipped, and functioning. The meaning of the word "regulated" at the time was akin to when you hear of a "well regulated clock", meaning a properly functioning timepiece. As another example of how this phrases was used in political documents, consider "..a well-regulated Government, which shall establish justice..."

Next, what is the militia? That is a simple one, historical quotes abound:

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." - George Mason

"The militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... all men capable of bearing arms" - Richard Henry Lee

If you don't like history, we can just read what the law says today. 10 USC 311 says the militia is all able bodied men between 18 and 45 years of age.

So, what the first part of the 2nd amendment points out is that it is necessary to have a well armed population at large in order to guarantee the liberty of the nation.

Thanks for point that out, Blair.
 
2002-04-23 02:27:07 PM  
back from lunch--

Gunboy: I agree with the ACLU in that they make this argument.

1) We *all* agree that *some* weapons are too dangerous for anyone to have. That makes us all in favor of arms regulation of some sort, constitution or no.
2) Beyond that, fight it out in congress. Or leave it to the locals. Assault rifles pose a decidedly different risk for people downtown L.A. than they do in the middle of Montana.

There's no way that either extreme end will ever occur in America (total ban on firearms or a total non-ban on projectile weapons)..
 
2002-04-23 02:27:28 PM  
Pro-gun, pro-abortion = pro=choice
 
2002-04-23 02:27:36 PM  
04-23-02 02:16:46 PM Christian Bale

my, panties in a wad now? Why is that, I'm curious. Just can't stand that someone may think you're an idiot? If I read you right you should be used to that by now. Your position that no populace outgunned by it's government has ever prevailed speaks more toward your ideology than you education.....excuse me, your lack thereof.

i·de·ol·o·gy Pronunciation Key (d-l-j, d-)
n. pl. i·de·ol·o·gies
1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.
 
2002-04-23 02:31:09 PM  
I'm tired of this "well regulated militia" crap.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It says a well regulated Militia is necessary for the security of a free state. So because of that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It does not say anywhere that, the right to keep and bear arms is restricted to the Militia. It says "the people." I am one of "the people", and therefore my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If what you said was true it would say.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to a well regulated Militia, shall not be infringed.
 
2002-04-23 02:35:20 PM  
Marantz310 wrote "The author himself admits that he has only taken into account the US. Nowhere does he implicitly state that countries with gun control have higher crime rates. "

I never meant to imply that his studies reached outside of the United States, and upon rereading your original statement I see that you were comparing the US with other locales, and not locales within the US.

The fact is, making comparison between different cultures is difficult. The United States is a violent society. With or without guns, we glorify violence and promote it in our youth. You could argue that without the presence of guns, you wouldn't have 18 year olds killing each other. But without the presence of guns, my 75 year old grandmother couldn't defend herself against that same 18 year old.

If America has a problem with firearm violence, it is because we have a problem with violence, not that we have a problem with firearms.

"I live in a safe place where carrying a weapon is illegal. Anyone who does is automatically a criminal. I much perfer it this way."

And I live in a very safe place where carrying a weapon is legal. In my wallet I have a permit to carry a gun. People like me are one reason this is a safe place to live.
 
2002-04-23 02:35:53 PM  
Since a lot of people have thrown abortion into the mix. I don't think anyone is Pro-abortion ie. 04-23-02 02:27:28 PM Red99: Pro-gun, pro-abortion = pro=choice saying that means that one would want everyone to have one.

There are common sense aspects on that also.

I consider myself pro-choice until the point in which the fetus (notice I said fetus) is viable or able to live on its own. After that its murder.
But thats an opinion.
 
2002-04-23 02:37:21 PM  
Jakal, you ARE the militia.
 
2002-04-23 02:37:47 PM  

From: http://www.attrition.org/technical/firearms/chimp.html

Behold the Idiocy of the Gun-Grabbing Chimp.

Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:54:02 -0600 (MDT)

From: Cancer Omega <co­me­ga­[nospam-﹫-backwards]n­o­i­tirtta*o­rg>

To: "Aphrazel ." <aph­raz­el[nospam-﹫-backwards]x­oben­o*com>
Cc: staff­[nospam-﹫-backwards]noitirtta*o­rg

Subject: Re: still waiting

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Aphrazel . wrote:

Also, before you go spouting off in your articles remember that the second ammendment only applies to those in state-recognized militias. The average civilian doesn't have a constitutional right to carry a gun.



Let me see if I understand you here:

1. "the people" in the First Amendment means *the people*;

2. "the people" in the Fourth Amendment means *the people*;

3. "the people" in the Ninth Amendment means, *the people*;

4. ...but "the people" in the Second Amendment (ratified in 1787) means the National Guard (which was created by an Act of Congress in *1917*).

God, you are one stupid farking chimp.

.c

 
fj
2002-04-23 02:38:38 PM  
EatMeat:
Speak for yourself. I personally am pro-abortion, not pro-choice. I think we need many more abortions and fewer births. Maybe that would stop urban sprawl and ease up the strain on the welfare system.
 
2002-04-23 02:39:53 PM  
Woo hoo! Yay! Thank you, CA Justices! Keep the Fairplex safe, and increase the peace in California.

And God Bless and Keep all you gun owners FAR AWAY FROM MY FAMILY.

"For every case in which an individual used a firearm kept in the home in a self-defense homicide, there were 1.3 unintentional deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms."

Hmm...that's what...43 to 1? The faster you gun nuts blow yourselves away the better as far as I'm concerned. Go for it!

You just can't buy you f*cking gun at the facility where I take my kids to the fair, the place I support with my f*cking property taxes.

Go be an idiot, but not on my dime, and not near my kids.

Stats: http://www.vpc.org/studies/wher2con.htm
 
2002-04-23 02:42:48 PM  
04-23-02 02:27:36 PM Bitplayer
04-23-02 02:16:46 PM Christian Bale

my, panties in a wad now? Why is that, I'm curious.


Good God, this coming from you? Look at my first several responses to you. Then look at yours:

then why didn't the british, brainiac?

goverments are often beaten with small arms.....get out more.

Just can't stand that someone may think you're an idiot?

you education.....excuse me, your lack thereof.


In addition to your personal insults, which I offered none of, you misrepresent my positions:

Your position that no populace outgunned by it's government has ever prevailed

I never said anything of the sort. And what ideology holds a bias against the underdog? Not Left-wing: A main tenet of communism is that the people will overthrown the government and install Communism in its place.

I've argued reasonably, without name-calling and all that shiat. Why are your panties so in a bunch?
 
2002-04-23 02:43:44 PM  
GunBoy, I absolutely agree with you. I suppose this inherently violent nature is where I fail to understand. I grew up as close to the US as you can be without entering it. The has given me a unique perspective.

Your society which as you say glorifies violence is really a double edged sword. It is rooted in a sence of extreme pride and competition. It is what has brought the United States to be likely the most powerful nation in the world today. It also however causes a great deal of strife within your country.
 
2002-04-23 02:44:19 PM  
California sucks. Avoid it at all costs.
 
2002-04-23 02:44:38 PM  
Ralph, you are an idiot. For every self-defense homocide there are 100,000 cases where guns are used in self-defense, but the person isn't killed. Go live in China you, "doing it for the children"-farker.
 
2002-04-23 02:44:47 PM  
Ohhh ... Violence Policy Center stats (www.vpc.org) ... now there is an unbiased source.
 
fj
2002-04-23 02:44:54 PM  
Ralph Spoilsport:
Nice statistics, but they leave alot out. How many homes have firearms that are never used in self defense or in a crime? Probably close to 99%. Your stats count only self-defense homicides, but leave out cases where brandishing the firearm was enough to deter a criminal as well as cases where a gun was pulled and used, but without fatalities.
 
2002-04-23 02:46:07 PM  
04-23-02 02:38:38 PM Fj
EatMeat:
Speak for yourself. I personally am pro-abortion, not pro-choice. I think we need many more abortions and fewer births. Maybe that would stop urban sprawl and ease up the strain on the welfare system.


Good point, but Urban Sprawl is an Urban Myth.
 
2002-04-23 02:47:30 PM  
Oh goody! It's time for another.....
 
2002-04-23 02:48:00 PM  
Most "children" killed by guns are gang-bangers between the age of 16 and 23. Good riddance I say. Also, I don't think gang members buy guns through legal channels.
 
fj
2002-04-23 02:48:59 PM  
Urban Sprawl is an uban myth?

I've seen the results. Hell, I'm living in the results. It's no myth.
 
2002-04-23 02:51:10 PM  
Poor, poor brainwashed Ralph.
 
2002-04-23 02:52:13 PM  
I think this is great. Next, I want public-property bans on environmental activism, abortion promotion, and union organizing. As long as it's ok for government to exclude lawful activity that it doesn't like, then I want the activities that I oppose to be suppressed as well.
 
2002-04-23 02:52:15 PM  
the right to be regular with the eating of salads and grains, the right to keep and arm bears, the need of the populace to form city-states and fight with other city-states for pork products and icecream.
 
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