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(Herald Sun)   Rather than giving them to the Palestinians, Israeli bulldozers are leveling Gaza houses   (heraldsun.com) divider line 243
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10076 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2005 at 6:48 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-08-21 09:18:31 PM
We'll have plenty of time to have Israel/Palestine flamewars in a year or two when the Israeli government makes official its plans to hang on to virtually all of the West Bank, anyway.
 
2005-08-21 09:19:44 PM
Hey submitter, the muslims want the houses torn down. They want to start with a clean slate. Also, the destruction/construction industry creates jobs.

idiot.
 
2005-08-21 09:28:43 PM
Why not, the Isreali's bulldoze Palestinian houses, they may as well bulldoze Jewish houses as well. Par for the course.
 
2005-08-21 09:41:03 PM
-------------------------------------------------------
2005-08-21 09:07:58 PM Joey Jeremiah


There's an old saying: "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

I guarantee that this new opportunity in Gaza will be no different.
-------------------------------------------------------

You mean like, the opportunity in 2000 to accept a nation that included parts of Jerusalem, but wasn't a contiguous piece of land and didn't have its own drinking water supply?

Or the opportunity NOT to assassinate their leader who was forwarding the peace process? Oh wait, that wasn't the Palestinians.

Don't get me wrong, for every hypocritical, fundamentalist, or otherwise irrational thing the Israelis have done, I can come up with two from the Palestinian side. But one-sided generalizations like yours are retarded.
 
2005-08-21 09:45:21 PM


^^^
Thats the Gaza strip and Israel's "occupied" land right side by side right there.

You wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off about their land being taken from them in the first place? They live in overpopulated desolate shiatheaps that breed hatred and terrorism.
 
2005-08-21 09:47:47 PM
We should just stay out of it and let them work it out as they will. I don't think the resell value for them would be that high anyway.
 
2005-08-21 09:49:39 PM
There are definitely leftist Israeli groups who advocate tolerance and all that nice shiat, but I challenge you to find a genuine leftist Palestinian group.

You mean the "Zionist sympathizers" that Hamas have sworn to execute? Well, they must exist or why else would Hamas have sworn to kill them?

There was a time before the current intifadah when Palestinians and Israelis actually got along and even went to school together. I have to admit, Hamas has done an excellent job of ****ing over their own people. They've brainwashed an entire generation and have established a culture of death. However, there are still plenty of Palestinians who are moral and ethical people who recognize that strapping bombs to children is wrong and those who do such a thing are inherently evil.
 
2005-08-21 09:55:57 PM
You wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off about their land being taken from them in the first place?

Their land in Jordan or their land in Lebanon?
 
2005-08-21 10:04:53 PM
worst.headline.ever.
 
2005-08-21 10:08:36 PM
This was being discussed most of the morning on NPR this past Friday.

The homes in the settlements are being bulldozed-

1. This was by the mutual decision between the Palestinian Authority and Israel, because..

A. Due to cultural differences, Iraelis tend to live in single family dwellings similar to suburban homes in the U.S. The Palestinians are interested in high-rise condos partitioned into large apartments capable of holding 2-3 generations of a family in each unit, as is their custom. The settlement housing was unsuitable. Mutually agreed.

B. Unemployment in Palestine is crushing. It's catastrophic. Much of it is what economists call "structural" unemployment, meaning the culture lacks key technical and/or professional skills. How high is Palestinian unemployment? 50%. By demolishing the settlement housing and leaving it, the Israelis create thousands of low-skill construction jobs for the Palestinians to remove the rubble and rebuild housing as they see fit. Mutually agreed.

C. Bulldozing the houses to the ground and leaving them as rubble would prove to the Palestinian people that the Isralis were really, really gone and would not come back. Mutually agreed.
 
2005-08-21 10:12:57 PM
I also hope they take a dump on each pile of debris as they leave.
 
2005-08-21 10:14:25 PM
Seems someone is still mad at Santa for not getting them that pony.
 
2005-08-21 10:17:40 PM
ChemRat54B

all i know concerning the 6 day war is that isreal attacked a us navy ship and nearly destoryed it. so isreal can kiss my ass.

And the US has fired on allies before too. Friendly fire happens in a war, particularly when your the little guy swinging at anything that moves cause they are all out to get you.

If thats your only beef with them then your reaching.
 
2005-08-21 10:29:02 PM
I guess it's not surprising that the terrorist apologists still won't concede that Israel is the good guy in this conflict even as they're handing over land. Oh! Oh!..but they're not giving the Palestinians their houses! You know what? Fark the Palestinians. They supported these terrorist groups all these years and should be on their hands and knees thanking Israel for not killing every last one of em.
 
2005-08-21 10:29:53 PM
Why are the Israelis destroying bulldozers, instead of simply giving them to the Palestinians?
 
2005-08-21 10:31:41 PM
MrNeutron

You really need to do just a little bit more research on the Six Day War.
 
2005-08-21 10:31:53 PM
Where's the pic of Peter commenting on Jews and Arabs?
 
2005-08-21 10:33:07 PM
Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully. --Bob Dylan
 
2005-08-21 10:34:23 PM
electric squid carpet

You wonder why the Palestinians are pissed off about their land being taken from them in the first place?

You, as well as MrNeutron are in dire need of actually learning what you're talking about. You might want to take your issue up with Egpyt.
 
2005-08-21 10:37:05 PM
Don't let terrorism win - bulldoze the whole area. Then the Palestinians can point to the rubble for the next hundred years and complain "see what the Jews did!"

Hope they eat sand .....
 
2005-08-21 10:38:34 PM
Mayhem_King

Shockingly, there are Palestinians and Israelis who just want to get along and support each other's civil rights and right to their religous beliefs. (Which are actually tenets of both the Torah and Al Qu'ran. Go figure that there are actually some moral people living in the region.

The right to differing religious beliefs is a tenet of the Torah and the Koran? Try reading them sometime.
 
2005-08-21 10:47:20 PM
-------------------------------------------------------
2005-08-21 10:38:34 PM CaesarSneezy


The right to differing religious beliefs is a tenet of the Torah and the Koran? Try reading them sometime.
-------------------------------------------------------

Actually, odds are that both say something to the tune of "Strike down the men, women, and children of the nonbelievers" in a couple places, and "Respect they whose spirits drink from a different gourd" in a couple other places. The real moral is to disregard both books altogether.
 
2005-08-21 10:47:54 PM
Okay can we just agree that before any of you open up your shiat holes you at least go take an hour and go read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories

I mean honestly people, how hard is it to try and maybe read up on a subject before you spout off about it?

Just because fat balding white men debate on TV with no clue doesn't mean we have to follow suit.
 
2005-08-21 10:53:23 PM
I think a lot of people here need to do a little more reading and research before they rant.

There-was-no-Palstine-stolen-by-Jews!

There was the Ottoman Empire, who were defeated in WWI, which gave contol of that area to the British decades before Israel was founded on that land. The last time there was actually a "Palastine" it was before Mohammed, and the Romans ruled it.

If the Palistinians want to complain about not having thier own homeland, they need to complain to several dozen dead countries and empires, as well as a few existing ones, before they get to Israel.
 
2005-08-21 10:59:56 PM
zxjim
If the Palistinians want to complain about not having thier own homeland, they need to complain to several dozen dead countries and empires, as well as a few existing ones, before they get to Israel.

Slight flaw in your logic: in every case of stolen property I've ever heard of, if the authorities know where the item is, they retreive it first, and work backwards. I think that would also prove a more effective tactic in this case, at least compared to pursuing their case with the League of Nations or the Ottoman Empire.
 
2005-08-21 11:04:19 PM
zxjim

Not that I disagree with you, but you're not including Zionists (the hardcore pre-Israel ones) in there.

It's debatable whether or not America and Britain paved the way for the Jewish homeland, or Zionist Jews themselves. Oddly, Zionists say that the Jews did it mostly on their own, DESPITE what they call setbacks and obstacles placed BY the Americans and British. I find that kind of strange because (aside from some historical documents and events to the contrary) it portrays Jews as kind of an imperialist people, which all throughout history has never been the case. (Not truly imperialist in the building-an-empire sense, but in the land-seizure-with-little-regard-for-existing-inhabitants sense.)
 
2005-08-21 11:12:33 PM
Palestinians are the "attractive and successful African-Americans of the world".

John Lennon R.I.P.
 
2005-08-21 11:15:03 PM
anti-zionism = anti-semitism. flame on.
 
2005-08-21 11:16:47 PM
 
2005-08-21 11:19:38 PM
O.K. A lot of bad shiat has gone down in the last 50+ years between Israel and its neighbors. If we assume that ceding Jerusalem is a deal-breaker for both sides, then we more or less assume that the problem is unsolvable except by the total victory of one side over the other. Hence, as people with a political interest/dog-in-the-fight whether we want to be or not, the simple question is this: who's side are you going to back?

I'll go first: Israel.
 
2005-08-21 11:23:35 PM
Jewish, Christian, any religion. When it comes down to it, it's hypocrisy. These are the last people that would give something to their neighbour. They preach about Jesus giving to the less fortunate, but in the end, they are all a bunch of farking hypocrites. They would rather destroy something in your face, property that they were reimbursed for, than give it to someone in need. Religous people make me puke.
 
2005-08-21 11:24:08 PM
so fark is as bad as fox now with trying to incite strong feelings in people wether they are correct or not.


makes me wonder when we will get all the white people vs. black people news articles....

cant wait.

my days on fark are numbered with the greenlighting of propaganda becoming more and more...
 
2005-08-21 11:25:04 PM
The right to differing religious beliefs is a tenet of the Torah and the Koran? Try reading them sometime.

Great argument. You got me beat. No countering that logic.
 
2005-08-21 11:26:51 PM
I blame boobies for all this ruckus thats a goin on..
 
2005-08-21 11:28:30 PM
kjwulff

How about backing neither of those asshats? I'll bet on the outcome, though: there are just too many Arabs in the area with a high birthrate, so the Jews smarten up, give up that POS piece of land, and move to America. Thus they "lose" although in fact it's really winning.
 
2005-08-21 11:28:51 PM
I thought palestinians lived in mud huts and trees.
 
2005-08-21 11:32:33 PM
Cant Think Of A Good Long Name
my days on fark are numbered with the greenlighting of propaganda becoming more and more...

It's hardly a Fark-specific phenomina. The din of propaganda is virtually deafening throughout the major (American) media these days. Bread & circuses ain't cutting it.
 
2005-08-21 11:33:01 PM
You expect less form the retards that live over there in that region. These people would find something to bicker over f thay had every fanticy of both groups satisfied. We should give them both more weapons and see who comes out on top.
 
2005-08-21 11:35:36 PM
Thinks tag should have read "obvious". The Palestinians are lucky they are getting free land at all.
 
2005-08-21 11:35:59 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito

Well, this is going to sound really a lot like bigotry, but if you knew me you'd know I'm not a bigot, so anyway here's my take: The Israelis are like us. As a culture and as a political entity they seem to value the same things and view the world in the same way we do. So I'm with them. I know, I know...there goes the ugly American again holding forth with this idea that the measure of all things is "the American Way", but that's not it. I just think we need friends in this world. Israel is a friend. They're one of us. Sounds horible, I know, but those are my feelings and I think maybe the feelings of a lot of people (even if they won't admit it like I just did).
 
2005-08-21 11:44:03 PM
Guy In Guy Incognito: It's debatable whether or not America and Britain paved the way for the Jewish homeland, or Zionist Jews themselves. Oddly, Zionists say that the Jews did it mostly on their own, DESPITE what they call setbacks and obstacles placed BY the Americans and British. I find that kind of strange because (aside from some historical documents and events to the contrary) it portrays Jews as kind of an imperialist people, which all throughout history has never been the case. (Not truly imperialist in the building-an-empire sense, but in the land-seizure-with-little-regard-for-existing-inhabitants sense.)

That's sort of an interesting post, but there's no conclusion.

The Balfour Declaration:

Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild:

I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's
Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge
of the Zionist Federation.

Yours,
Arthur James Balfour


As a result of Balfour, the Zionists sort of started a guerrilla war, with the goal of pushing the Palestinians to the sea. It's a long and gruesome story.

One of the key tipping points of a Palestinian homeland is the concept of "right of return" which says Palestinian refugees can choose to return to their former homes, or be compensated if they do not choose to return. That argument was started in 1948 with UN Resolution 194, and has not ended, even after the Clinton talks in 2000.
 
2005-08-21 11:46:38 PM
kjwulff
The Israelis are like us.

Wow, wonder where you'd have ever gotten an idea like that? Israel is a theocracy with religious discrimination built into its Constitution. It's a nation where torture was legal up until the mid 90s, and there are *still* provisions to allow it in "extraordinary circumstances". Their political leaders are assassinated constantly. They have built an apartheid state, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and multiple UN Resolutions.

The only reason they're even giving Gaza back is, as it's termed in Israel, the "demographic problem". Basically, the combination of Israeli recognition that the Occupied Territories can't stay in limbo forever -- either the people living there must become Israeli citizens under Israeli control, or be made autonomous. Of course, if the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank were given Israeli citizenship, they would already have a majority within the state.

Israel is like us in one respect though, they understand the value of PR.
 
2005-08-21 11:48:36 PM
-------------------------------------------------------
2005-08-21 11:35:59 PM kjwulff


Guy In Guy Incognito

Well, this is going to sound really a lot like bigotry, but if you knew me you'd know I'm not a bigot, so anyway here's my take: The Israelis are like us. As a culture and as a political entity they seem to value the same things and view the world in the same way we do. So I'm with them. I know, I know...there goes the ugly American again holding forth with this idea that the measure of all things is "the American Way", but that's not it. I just think we need friends in this world. Israel is a friend. They're one of us. Sounds horible, I know, but those are my feelings and I think maybe the feelings of a lot of people (even if they won't admit it like I just did).
-------------------------------------------------------

Israel is a homeland for an ethnicity. America is (in theory) a homeland for freedom. If surrounding Arab nations are any indication, then perhaps Israelis (Jews and non-Jews) are more like us than other countries in the region, but that's not saying much.
 
2005-08-21 11:50:41 PM
No man

I tend to agree that the Balfour Declaration was instrumental in defining the region as a new Jewish homeland. Some disagree, and say that subsequent British policy (Churchill White Paper, limitations on Jewish immigration in the 30s) effectively undid the Balfour Declaration.
 
2005-08-21 11:54:54 PM
mrexcess: Wow, wonder where you'd have ever gotten an idea like that? Israel is a theocracy with religious discrimination built into its Constitution.


Israel doesn't have a constitution, asshole.

Surprise! Despite no formal separation of state and religion, Israel is more secular than the US, with its flying spaghetti monster advocating chief, it's "under God" pledge, 90% of the population believes in angels, dry counties, dry Sundays... Israel, founded by self-professed atheists with, among other things a commitment to scholarship and scientific knowledge, boasts the highest number of scientific papers published, per capita, in the world.

Oh, and you should see the chicks on the beaches there. What they wear (or usually, don't) would get them arrested in most beaches in the Land of the Free.
 
2005-08-22 12:01:10 AM
ArbitraryConstant:

They have to destroy them so the settlers have nothing to come back to. If they left them, the settlers would be trying to get back to them for decades.

Not to mention that international laws dictates that you leave nothing.

zxjim:

I think a lot of people here need to do a little more reading and research before they rant.

There-was-no-Palstine-stolen-by-Jews!

There was the Ottoman Empire, who were defeated in WWI, which gave contol of that area to the British decades before Israel was founded on that land. The last time there was actually a "Palastine" it was before Mohammed, and the Romans ruled it.

If the Palistinians want to complain about not having thier own homeland, they need to complain to several dozen dead countries and empires, as well as a few existing ones, before they get to Israel.


Exactly. The Palestinians have always backed the wrong side in wars. Gaza and the West Bank came under Israel's control as a result of neighboring Arab nations attacking Israel, and Israel kicking their asses.
 
2005-08-22 12:01:48 AM
shipud
Israel doesn't have a constitution, asshole.

Forgive me, you're correct. Although I'm not sure that goes very far towards contradicting my larger argument. However, they do have founding documents roughly equivalent to a Constitution, and religious discrimination is very much instantiated therein.

Surprise! Despite no formal separation of state and religion, Israel is more secular than the US, with its flying spaghetti monster advocating chief, it's "under God" pledge, 90% of the population believes in angels, dry counties, dry Sundays... Israel, founded by self-professed atheists with, among other things a commitment to scholarship and scientific knowledge, boasts the highest number of scientific papers published, per capita, in the world.

It does not follow that a country with the most published scientific papers is necessarily less or more theocratic than another country. I wouldn't argue that fundamentalism is rampant in the United States today, but to even pretend this compares to Israel's fabric, so interwoven with Zionism, is merely a farcical attempt at misdirection.

Oh, and you should see the chicks on the beaches there. What they wear (or usually, don't) would get them arrested in most beaches in the Land of the Free.

On this we can agree, at least...Israeli chicks do tend towards the "smoking hot" category. Not sure when the last time you visited our beaches was, though...
 
2005-08-22 12:02:05 AM
As I've been hearing, everyone agreed that they get bulldozed. The reasoning is that tey want to make this as easy on the Israelis as possible- when the Palestinians move in and the media inevitably interviews a Palestinian in their new home, nothing good can come of one of the Israeli families recognizing that house as the one they just got forced out of. The Palestinians don't want the buildings up as they don't want to incite any violence, the Israelis don't want them as it'd just piss them off when people moved in and they're thinking ahead.
 
2005-08-22 12:04:20 AM
AcornMan

Egypt was about to attack Israel, and everyone knew it. Not even Egypt denies the attack was imminent. Rather than sitting on their arses and letting themselves get masacred, the Israelis did exactly what we would do, which was lauch a preemptive strike.

Please don't pull stuff out of your ass. As an armchair general, you are not qualified to state what "everyone" knew back in 1967. Here are some quotes for you:

"In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."
- General Ezer Weitzman, Commander of Air Force

"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it."
- Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff

And who cares if these Arab states were out to destroy Israel? It is a state based on religion. Would anyone here really argue against the destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran and replacing it with something not based on religion? What the Jews need to understand is, they cannot walk around the Middle East with a book written by an imaginary man in the sky 3000 years ago in order to claim a lease on a land that they don't live on. If they want to live on our land, they are more than welcome, but they must accept our presence too. Palestinians and other Arabs have lived peacefully with Jews for hundreds of years until the Zionists initiated their plot to begin a Jewish Crusade. In fact, the Muslim Armies fought alongside the Jews when they defeated the Roman Empire. It is still possible to live peacefully with the Palestinians if they abandon the notion that they are entitled to a Jewish state, and accept citizenship in a Palestinian state that isn't biased towards one religion. The sooner this process begins, the easier it will be for both sides to accept the solution and allow the scars of the conflict to heal.

/just my liberal-pacifist-Arab two cents.
 
2005-08-22 12:07:26 AM
mrexcess: Their political leaders are assassinated constantly.


Who, except for Rabin? "American leaders are constantly being assassinated". JFK. At least Israel managed to capture, try and punish theirs.

They have built an apartheid state,

Palestinians citizens are better represented electorally in the Israeli Knesset than Blacks and Latinos in the US Congress. Palestinian Israelis enjoy the same privileges as Jews, although they do not have to go through national service.



multiple UN Resolutions.

Um, yeah... when Israel is not the only country barred from being a member of the UN security council, while such beacons of freedom like Sudan can, let's talk.
 
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