hey submitter.... this is over a month old. and been on totalfark. several times.

Am I the only one that thinks legislators should get paid what the common guy is getting paid? There's something wrong with this... really.. How can someone making $145,000/yr connect with someone making $40,000/yr??? The worlds are way too far apart... Now I don't think they should be making $40,000/yr because what would be the incentive on getting the best people to do the job?

Maybe some type of commision based payroll where they start off at $40,000 and make more if the state is doing well and less if the state is doing poor.




/Not saying they wouldn't do something like this.. wait....wait.... yes I am.

This is why legislators should be paid a constitutionally-fixed multiple of the average wage (or alternatively, a fixed percentage of the total economy). That way they would have an incentive to improve things for their constituents.

Snarfangel: This is why legislators should be paid a constitutionally-fixed multiple of the average wage (or alternatively, a fixed percentage of the total economy). That way they would have an incentive to improve things for their constituents.

Ooo.. very good.. I like you're idea...

well the guy they interviewed couldnt start a sentence off with anything other than "i understand..." except when asked if they will repeal it....

i understand you just got farked up the ass. believe me there was a lot of heated debate over it..

This used to happen in Congress all the time. Now, there is a constitutional amendment prohibiting it in Congress.

I once had an idea that legislators and educators should swap salaries. Then I came back down to reality.

//let them live like me

Don't they make most of their money in "tips" anyway?

Maybe legislators should be paid the average wage in their state. Any other income during tenure should be banned. That'd provide quite the incentive to actually get something done to improve their state's wages through economic development and job growth.

Dancin_In_Anson:

If there is not an open revolt over this, you folks in Pennsylvania deserve everything you get.

there won't be. the people in this country have become too pussified to do anything.

they should be paid the average of what all their citizens make. that would be incentive to them to help the people get better education, hence better salaries across the board, and then the states could compete.

I'm glad I just moved to Philly.

In the legislative world this is called business as usual.

Aside from the pay raise they just annointed themselves with, these PA legislators are getting well over $100 cash per day, for just appearing in Harrisburg. Plus over $600 per month for a car and insurance, a kick ass health care plan and an even better pension. This does not take into consideration the favors they get just being a legislator.

Pennsyvania tag!
desperately needed.

Reggaenomics spewed:

"hey submitter.... this is over a month old. and been on totalfark. several times."



Some of us aren't TF.

Hmph... I'm a low-level elected official in PA--not at all affected financially by this (old) news. One very important point in this issue is that the only legislators who voted for this raise are the ones who are running unopposed in this years' election.

To expand on a comment above, I think that ALL elected positions should be unpaid...just my opinion, but I think it would weed out certain undesireables and put the power of The People into the hands of people who actually give a crap.

/Republican
//gonna try to move up a notch in '07

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

/moves to PA and runs for office

Mugato

If anyone types the words "cost of living" I'm getting the shotgun. And my penis gourd. Juse because I like to have it with me.

cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living cost of living

Hrmm... nope. Nuthin' yet...

CannedTangent:

Hmph... I'm a low-level elected official in PA

[...]

//gonna try to move up a notch in '07

To get more $$$dough?

/not if people find out you read (and post) on Fark

Wow, this is old farking news. Submitter, you fail in current events. Go home, get your head out of your ass, and watch the news once in awhile instead of getting all your news off of fark.

/hypocrite

CannedTarget. What if we left them unsalaried, but took care of their living expenses and and room/board by developing sort of political villages, places like a military base, where they would live in a sort of political college.

I don't know, sorta kooky.

Sorry, just RTFA and found this....

"However, some legislators collect the raise through a loophole in the law which allows for the reimbursement of 'unvouchered expenses'."

once again......
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA

well in the end this is how democracy works in this country. the problem is most people are more concerned with celebrity gossip than shiat like this, so in the end they deserve what they get. i think the ability is there for the people to say "fark you" this kind of stuff will not be tolerated. but since most people are too busy reading fashion magazines or watching football, nothing will change.

the government will abuse the people as long as the people stay dumb.

no one in the US government should make more than the lowest paid teacher. let's see how fast that would increase the quality of education in America.

Didn't this just happen in the Duke of Hazzard movie also?

In Nebraska, the senators don't get paid very much, because they're in session for either 60 or 90 legislative days...essentially it's a PT job and most of them have another job/career that they do in the off season.

Teucer-Hey, that's a thought!

Rincewind53-Probably...but the wealthy, in my experience, generally don't have the time to truly invest what is needed to hold political office. There are always exceptions (read: Steve Forbes) but for the most part, and considering all the political offices out there I don't think your argument holds water.

Mugato-my thoughts exactly. Except I ran for office and won (not a barb at you, just a fact.)

Collective groan of discontent
What should we do?

Vote libertarian.

And this is why people need to get out to the polls more often: so they can discourage this kind of behavior.

This is been on regular un-paid Fark before also.
I can understand people being upset,
but it is still another REPEAT.

Rincewind53

CannedTangent

To expand on a comment above, I think that ALL elected positions should be unpaid...just my opinion, but I think it would weed out certain undesireables and put the power of The People into the hands of people who actually give a crap.

Have you stopped to think that making elected positions unpaid would mean that only rich people would be able to enter elected positions? "The People" would be unable to afford taking those positions, if they weren't paid.

"The People" can't afford it now...when was the last time you saw "common guy" raise enough money to compete with the average elected official?

Limit elected officials to the highest teacher salary paid in the state (federal officials to the highest teacher salary in the nation), and limit all campaigns to a spending cap of $1 million. ALL campaigns...from President to local dog catcher. Can't spend more than $1 million, and that included travel expense and paying staff, as well as ads/smear campaigns/etc.

Maybe that would get the rich crooks out of office.

Two things --

There is a revolt underway in PA and it is being brought to the masses by newspapers and talk radio shows.

Most legislators aren't up for reelection till next year and they're hoping we'll forget. We won't.

Here is a column by Reading Eagle columnist Jason Brudereck on the subject.


"Pay hikes OK with relative of lawmaker"

THE TAXES WE ALL PAY are high, but they might not be high enough.
It seems our education system is underfunded.
This is the conclusion I was forced to reach last week when the relative of a local state legislator called me to incoherently complain about a column I had written about the gargantuan raises state legislators bravely gave themselves.
In that column, I argued that their bravery is grounds to remove them from office.
But this legislators relative said I had neglected to mention that legislators sacrifice time with their families to hold office and commute to Harrisburg. For this reason alone, she argued, the legislators deserved the 16 percent raises they voted to give themselves at 2 a.m. one morning in July. So I asked her, "But for all the time they allegedly spend in Harrisburg, what have they accomplished? " "A lot," she replied without explanation. Her answer is not a good one. She should have joined her high school debating team. If she had, she would have learned that such an answer would not score her any points in a debate.
She then told me my last name is appropriate because I am a "rude wreck."
But she would have realized her error if she had bothered to study any German while in school, which is no longer possible in the Wyomissing School District since that districts school board voted to remove the language from its foreign-language program last week.
If she knew any German, she would realize that Brudereck does not mean "rude wreck."
A rough translation of the name actually means brothers corner.
If more tax dollars had been spent on her education, she also would have perhaps learned that it is appropriate to identify yourself when calling someone else on the telephone.
She failed to do this, although I asked her for her name.
She also never learned it is proper etiquette to tell a person "Goodbye" before suddenly hanging up on that person.
I hope she calls back and allows me to have an actual conversation with her because she did not allow me to make any of the many points I wanted to make.
Some of them include:
When our legislators ran for office, they should have known they would probably have to spend some time in Harrisburg away from their families.
No matter how many hours legislators spend at their jobs, the 5 percent annual raises they receive are adequate, especially since those legislators knew what salary they would earn when they ran for office.
If legislators are unhappy with their salaries, they should look into other careers. Via e-mail and phone calls, dozens of people indicated they agreed with my assessment of the raises. Her relative who happens to be a legislator is undoubtedly out of touch with his or her constituents. The raise he or she gave himself or herself is offensive. The excuses for the raise are pathetic. I have no sympathy for anyone griping about a job that he or she spent months campaigning to get. If this legislators relative does call me back, Id like to tell her these things.
Id also like to urge her to not vote for her relative again.
But because she didnt receive a better education due to an underfunded education system, she may not be intelligent enough to realize that a 16 percent raise is exorbitant.
Luckily, the majority of taxpayers are smart enough to know that.

Bonksnp:

Sorry, just RTFA and found this....

"However, some legislators collect the raise through a loophole in the law which allows for the reimbursement of 'unvouchered expenses'."

once again......
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA

Yeah, you nailed the most galling part of the whole pay raise scandal. The idea is that when these guys vote themselves a pay raise the people of the state are supposed to be able to give at least tacit approval through re-election before the collect. On the local NPR station they interviewed 2 legislators and one kept saying "Hey, you can't say it's illegal!" and they other said "I just voted how my party leaders told me. I Don't know if its unconstitutional." Just because they found sneaky loopholes to take our money and circumvent state constitutional process doesn't mean we're gonna like it. One of the interviewed state reps was complaining because she was receiving complaints from citizens who were not from her district. Aww, boo-hoo!

I was ready to strangle both of those asshats by the end of the hour.

subsailor-there's a lot of reform needed to get my admittedly lofty ideas into play. That's why I'm starting small...

10yrs ago the PA legislature tied salaries to the cost of living index; eliminating, so they said, the need to vote themselves raises.
Now, a 16 to 34% raise goes through at 2AM before the session break; meaning no public debate.
I want a show of hands of all farkers who averaged a 5% per year increase over the last ten years, and then received 16 to 34% this year. Because thats what the PA legislature basically has done.

Rincewind53
Anyone arguing that legislators should be paid the average wage of their state as an incentive to raise it has a serious disconnect with reality. There's not much that a legislator could do to raise the average wage by a large amount, especially in states that have very little economic growth due to extralegal factors.

I think that's the point -- there is no sudden 36% money grab, just a percent here and a percent there from intelligent planning and legislation.

I don't even mind paying them more than the average person, just the fact that they can vote themselves a pay raise whenever they feel like it without it being based on performance. The article says the pay ranges from $81K to $145K, so if the average person makes $40K/year, you can just redefine their salaries as between 2x and 3.5x the average pay (depending on position) and put that in the Constitution. Cost of living is automatic (well, as long as their constituents keep up), and any raise depends on the average person doing better.

First, vote 'em out.
Second, amend your constitution so the raises only take effect *after* an election.

Kuta:

First, vote 'em out.
Second, amend your constitution so the raises only take effect *after* an election.


Actually, the constitution does prohibit collecting in the same session that it is voted on. They are collecting in the form of "Unvouchered expenses" instead of straight pay. That is the second part of this scandal. some say even this loophole is unconstitutional.

It is also intersting that these pay raises apply to the legislature and State courts, so if someone brings a suit against the state, the judges have a conflict of interest because it affects their pay, too.

Kuta
That is the law.
However, our honest reps have written in a loophole whereby they can take the extra cash as "unvouchered expenses" now, instead of waiting to be re-elected.
There's a reason that people don't like lawyers most of the time; only when they need them.