Ok, I like to think I can handle myself, i'm 5'8" and 215 lbs. This guy was a total badass, lived how he wanted, did what he wanted and enjoyed doin it. I say bravo, bravo my badass friend.....RIP

Point-of-Historical Order:

Not all German soldiers were Nazi's. In fact, many in the high command detested Nazism (and hence, made Hitler paranoid -- with good reason (cf. asploding briefcases)).

But then there were hardcore Nazi soldiers like the Youth SS. Yeah, us Canadians and the SS got along REAL WELL in 1944....

junge

I'm for the war in Iraq, but you are coming off as a MAJOR douche. Canada is not morally oblligated to follow us into any war we choose to wage. Their geographical advantage of being next to us is not reason enough for that argument. Besides, we can fight our own fights if need be. It's not like Canada won't have our back if we really need it. It doesn't take a huge allaince to crack some dirteater's skulls in Iraq anyway.

junge altman

the point i was trying to make is that canada basically gets a free ride from the united states

we are eh? So we should have to go out and fight a war that we're morally (since you're throwing that word around)opposed to, because the US did us a favour?

I didn't know freedom was a bartering system.

I can imagine a "what if?" comic book where this guy and Audie Murphy team up to take out the entire 3rd Reich.

can't help but wonder whether in 50 years they'll say "Good man. Used to kill Americans" about people...

/trolling? yes
//grain of truth? who knows

surfingcow
Sorry RaoulDuke, but you're wrong. I'm as liberal as you get, but you are wrong.

Wherever you get that belief from, you should re-examine it. When it comes down to it, if there was someone or something about to kill you or possibly your family, and you had the chance to kill or be killed, I guarantee your survival instinct would take over. And if your statement comes from a religious or moral belief that killing is evil, then you should think about why you have a survival instinct in the first place, and why it is wrong to want to survive.

There are people who believe that killing is wrong even in self defence, and who while living that belief are able to overcome their instinct. Some devout Buddhists, for example. Also, some people presented with the opportunity to fight back will just be frozen with fear. The survival instinct is not as overpowering as you make it sounds when applied to attacking an enemy.

A friend of mine, formerly of the N'Sask R met some of the guys in Smith's unit that whitnessed his VC action. They were maning a .30 cal machine gun, putting down cover fire on the German grenadiers. They said they were firing so much and for so long that the barrel was glowing red and you could see the bullets traveling down it as they fired. At that point the bullets were cork-screwing through the air with not much chance of hitting anything.

FYI the PIAT anti-tank weapon Smith used was only capable of hitting a target (accuretly) at less than 50 yards, was sping operated (not rocket assisted like the Bazooka, panzerfaust or panzerchreck) and was not capable of penetrating a Panther's frontal armour (attack had to be made from the sides or rear).

The general opinion is that the odds of serviving a VC event is 1 in 10 (not that 9 out of 10 vc awards were posthumous but that your unlikely to live long enough in the action to complete the action).

/Canadian
//Work for a musem
///drinks scotch
////glad I will probably never have to fight or die thanks to people like Smith

junge altman
i just think that canada is morally obligated to participate in ANY military action the united states engages in, if not it should not be in NORAD or NATO

Does that mean we should surrender our sovreignty to the UN, because we're a member. If Turkey takes a shot a Greece we have to join in because we're both in NATO and Greece isn't. Your logic turned against you sucks, doesn't it.

This guy totally rules by the way. I wish he was still around so I could buy him a scotch.

Not to disrespect ol' Smokey with current events or anything, but I gotta add... while Canadians like to make hay about how we righteously stayed out of Iraq, our government did free up a bunch of American soldiers who were in Afganistan to go fight there, a fact that the Bush Administration will often acknowledge (now that they got past feeling all slighted).

We may be a bit schitzophrenic about it, but we're in this War on Ter'r thing to a pretty significant degree.

"i just think that canada is morally obligated to participate in ANY military action the united states engages in, if not it should not be in NORAD or NATO."

NATO is a defensive pact. We don't have to participate in offensive actions. Get a brain Moran.

you can look this up

when the iraq war was being fomented and cretien said that canada would not participate the provincial govt of alberta took out a full page ad in usa today and comdemned the ottawa govt for turning its back on a loyal ally.

had canada and france and other "allies" of the u.s. participated then i think the course of the last two years would have be markedly different, for the better i think.

and yes canada's (whether likes it or not) destiny is tied to the u.s., if the u.s. fails then canada will feel the effects too. so in that since canada is morally bound to help the u.s.

but please feel free to take a free ride and please take in as many american pacifists as you can.

maybe we could swap massachusetts for alberta. sound like a deal?

junge altman: maybe we could swap massachusetts for alberta. sound like a deal?

I know there are a few non-crazy Albertans, but on the whole, I'd be okay with that...

What?

RaoulDuke, you're right... it's killing lots of Nazis in really awesome ways at risk to oneself while saving others using minimal resources instead of curling up in the fetal position and begging for mercy, or at least a quick death, that makes him a hero. But, no, randomly blowing away some Nazi who's just out grocery shopping doesn't make one a hero. It merely means that one has excellent taste in targets.

This dude is awesome!!! I don't drink, but if he wanted a drink I'd buy it. RIP, keep up the good fight!

I hope that Smokey and Col. David Hackworth are smoking cigars and sipping scotch together right now.

Thank you for your service and courage Smokey.

RIP Mr. Smith you make me proud to be a Canuck.

i just think that canada is morally obligated to participate in ANY military action the united states engages

That is hillariuos. Could you be anymore arrogant. I think the America is morally obligated to defend and stand by France .. They did help you win independance ....

if the u.s. fails then canada will feel the effects too. so in that since canada is morally bound to help the u.s.

if the US fails, we'll just treat you like you treat your mexicans, cheap laborers, except with edumacation, as long as your religious fundies don't screw up your education system too much.

canada is not morally bound to do squat for you, we help our allies when they're in need, and we help ourselves when the need arises. besides, there is only one potential enemy that canada has and that is the US, so indeed, you do protect us from invasion as long as you protect us from yourselves.

junge altman

Dude 'Finlandization' is a douche term to use. The Finns went balls to the wall and single handily defeated the USSR in the Winter War whilst the rest of the allies sat on their ass trying not to piss off the Soviets.

They were the only country that was directly attacked by the Soviet Union after the war not to be invaded and occupied. Not being in NATO is a rather small concession they had to make in return for sovereigty. The only reason they even had to do this is because of the Western allies abandonment in the face of Soviet military power.

So in short, stop trying to make pissing matches in a wake thread about one bad ass man.

I know a guy that fought in WWII and he said that the americans were whiners and the british were tough.

What's with the national antagonism? Holy crap... no country exists in a vacuum. If that were the case, it would sort of pointless to bother calling it a country. Yes, France owes the US. Yes, the US owes France. Yes, Canada owes the US. Yes, the US owes Canada. Yes, Canada owes France. Yes, France owes Canada. And on, and on... so what? What's the point of being friends, even on a national scale, if you're keeping score and ripping each other apart? Here's a chance to honor a truly awesome guy. How about it?

Canada knows how to build Nukes should we ever feel the need. We just choose not to build them.

I also fail to see how the Soviets would have conquered Canada after WWII, with or without the US. Canada had a HUGE military (and miltary-industrial complex to suport it) at the end of WWII. I think we had the 3rd largest navy in the world at that point.

If someone threatens Canada (and I would still say that the #1 threat to Canada is the USA), we will deal with it. But were not going to spend $500 billion dollars fighting an organization that maybe, maybe has $100 million dollars and less than 50,000 people. It just doesn't make sense.

junge altman
i just think that canada is morally obligated to participate in ANY military action the united states engages in

And we think you're an idiot, because you've apparently missed, just like your government, the definitions of "sovereign country" and "freedom".

NORAD or NATO

Those are defensive treaties. When you're attacked, call us - and, next time, unlike in Afghanistan, when you call us, don't shoot us. It pisses us off.

Rio_Yeti
Just out of curiosity, if there were stories of a German soldier who carried a hatchet into battle to split open Allied skulls, "took no prisoners," and killed dozens of Allied soldiers then dragged one of his German buddies back to the medics, would he be lauded as a hero by Farkers?

By Farkers? Probably not, but that's understandable. That doesn't mean there weren't valourous, brave, patriotic Germans serving in the German army - the were just serving a bad cause[1]. Hit a library, pick up a copy of The Iron Men. It's an interesting read.


/[1]: Any comparisons to Americans in Iraq are left entirely up to the reader.

Now that was one tough SOB. He is the kind of guy you want to make sure you have on your side

RIP Smokey

We should just expand JTF2. A LOT.

escherIV

I think Samuel L. Jackson needs to give this guy his wallet back...

best comment yet...

havent read them all yet but I stand by my statement...

Common_Sens

how are the states a threat to me?

/don't believe actions around the world endanger us to the extent that you may be implying
//don't think they'll invade us over fresh water. more likely just FDI us out of our control of it.
///am i missing something here?

treesloth
Yes, the US owes Canada. Yes, Canada owes France. Yes, France owes Canada. And on, and on...

Canada owes France?

indeed, without france we'd never have the quebecois, and by extension that deliciously evil poutine, oh and don't forget the smoked meat and the bagels!

Reed Solomon

my bad. i dined and dashed once on vacation in bordeaux.

i think the bill was $32.50.

These threads, and Smokey, always remind me of how much Canada could be and how great we once were... Judging by some of the inane comments about how we can instantaneously produce nukes and how our neighbour is our biggest threat make me believe that our school system has disgraced itself in its teaching of world and Canadian history.

surfingcow: The next time you meet a guy that single-handedly disabled two tanks, faces down ten enemy soldiers at point-blank range and kills four of them without sustaining an injury, and routs the rest by himself while rescuing injured comrades, buy him a damn Scotch.

Amen, brutha

Demon of the Fall, you do not seem to understand what is meant by "Finlandization". Here is one explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

In short, it has nothing to do with their WW2 exploits and has everything to do with infiltration, kissing ass and bending over backwards in order not to offer their big red neighbor.

offend, not offer

RIP Smokey, The last real man canada ever produced.

Moerty

smoked meat and bagels are hardly Quebecois,

jurge altman ... I have meet, worked with and known may Americans (my sister even married one) so I realize that not all Americans are as big of an a--hole as you but it's people like you that give Americans a bad name world wide.

/btw..you need to get your Caps Lock key fixed

junge altman: so in that since canada is morally bound to help the u.s.


WTF are you smokin?

Funny most Albertans I've met dislike the US administration just as much as the rest of Canada ... twit.

Reed Solomon
...
Canada owes France?

Yes, in at least 2 ways. In WW2, the Nazi objective was pretty clearly to take over everything in time. The French opposed that, at first on a national scale and then with the Underground, making easier the burden carried by Canada and the other Allies later. Second, any country that contributed as many soldiers as Canada to that war would be hard-pressed not to find a significant number who were not materially aided and probably had their lives saved by France or any of the other allies. That's the point of being allies.

Obviously, these are just the debts that allied countries owe each other. Maybe "debt" and "owe" are the wrong words, but they're the best I can think of. One might just say that it's all cancelled out and no one owes anyone squat. I would prefer to remember all of the debts, in a spirit of gratitude.

Damn. This guy was awesome. I, too, wish that I could have bought him a scotch. I think I still might, just out of respect.

He reminds me of this guy.

treesloth:

Yes, in at least 2 ways. In WW2, the Nazi objective was pretty clearly to take over everything in time. The French opposed that, at first on a national scale and then with the Underground, making easier the burden carried by Canada and the other Allies later. Second, any country that contributed as many soldiers as Canada to that war would be hard-pressed not to find a significant number who were not materially aided and probably had their lives saved by France or any of the other allies. That's the point of being allies.

Obviously, these are just the debts that allied countries owe each other. Maybe "debt" and "owe" are the wrong words, but they're the best I can think of. One might just say that it's all cancelled out and no one owes anyone squat. I would prefer to remember all of the debts, in a spirit of gratitude



Hahahahaaa.

That was pretty funny, treesloth. You basically said, "Canada owes France because the french underground might have aided the Allied Powers in freeing France." That's like saying,
"Thanks for pulling me from that burning house, mr. Fireman, but since I had to walk on my own for a little bit of it, you owe me $5."

Can we stop with the bickering? The US/Canada flamewar can be exercised in any other thread. Why does it have to be brought here?

We should be discussing the severity of this guys' badassness, not arguing over present day political bullshart.

--

That being said, dudes like Smoky earned Canada quite the reputation in WWII. From what I hear, our pilots were pretty damned hardcore as well.

We've lost a legend.

/Proud Canadian.
//Proud of Canadians.
///Proud of ALL allies in WWII.

I love when people bring up the haven't done our part BS Just because we decided have different views on the Iraq situation doesn't mean we have not more then paid our dues on the world stage in the last 100 years.

If you think we have gotten a free ride from the USA come tell that to my mother who's brother went to Korea when she was three and she never saw again. He is listed as missing in action to this day. Or how about my other uncle that joined the US army to fight in Vietnam - he felt he had to do his duty unlike some who hid out in the national guard even though he wasn't being compelled to do so. Maybe you want to go back further to three family members who fought in WWII one of which is died in France and that is from immediate family.

I am not posting this to boast or show off it is the exact opposite. I would give anything to have met my uncle who gave his life fighting for something he believed in and i would like to believe that i would do the same if and when the time came. But saying that we got a free ride is shiatting on his sacrifice and all other canadians that have given their lives. They fought and died so we could decided what wars we were morally obligated to join.

Rio_Yeti: Just out of curiosity [if he were a nazi german soldier] would he be lauded as a hero by Farkers?

He should be, but most likely would not be. Like a lot of soldiers from any country, many fought because they had to, not because they believed in the cause they fought for. This especially applied to the Germans under Hitler. Hell, a lot of the American soldiers were more bigoted than the Germans at that time. What would make him a hero would be his unhesitant sacrifice of himself in aid of his fellow countrymen. Not his sacrifice for the cause of the war, but for the brothers he fought along side. The normal Farker would no doubt be uncapable of making that distinction.

/A lesson learned from HBO's "Band of Brothers".
/Would recommend it to anyone...