naked is the true hero and patriot in this war!

(Thanks man)

yes. true.

hmm, still no better solution from the left.

I'm not a liberal. assume much? I'm a Christian too. Hey...are you my enemy trying to define me?

I didn't say I was smarter than you. You did.

How does occupying Iraq make the U.S. safer?

This is awesome. All you have to do is try to spark some debate and it ends up in a circus.

No, seriously, good question to you Satchel. What WOULD you do to end terrorism?

Remember, the terrorists are of a mindset that makes the worst fundy look like a street corner pimp. They are not reasonalbe, dedicate their whole life to violence, murder and suppression of everyone's rights, think religion and government ARE the same thing, and get major cool points for killing westernerners. They are still mad about what the jews did to some donkey owned by Muhamad 1500 years ago, and if they can't actually find a reason to hate you, will make one up.

Oh, and they have lots' of money, get tasset support from the UN, and appeasment by other countries and really beleive in islamic world domination.


Open your blue books and start..... Now!

Satchel, i'm sorry, I have trouble telling you liberals appart, you all look alike to me.

Yeah sorry Preacher. I'm not "the left" You just missed him. Big, goofy looking guy, wearing a torn up shirt. He was saying something about wanting to increase your taxes so he could start a We Hate America charity group. I think his solution was to legalize pot and go hold hands with Islamo fachist leaders, like the Saudi Family. It's "fascist" by the way.

Satchel_Brown,

Germany, Hitler....Iraq, Saddam...Germany, invading revealed horrible attrocities against fellow humans...Iraq, invading revealed horrible attrocities against fellow humans..Germany, removing Hitler led to a free Germany...Iraq, removing Saddam will also lead to a free Iraq...Germany, a free Germany without a terrorist leader made for a much safer world for all it's citizens including US ones....Iraq, a free Iraq without a terrorist leader will make for a much safer world for all it's citizens including US ones..


Now...what is your solution.

ok Satchel..I saw that guy leave, now...what is your solution. So far all you have been able to do is mock.

I'm glad to have read everyone's comments on this topic. My 20 yr old son informed me last week that he is considering joining the Army. I have had (almost) every thought that has been written here - on both sides. I'm very torn personally about violence and war to achieve any type of goal, but am not so arrogant as to think I know what is really going on behind the scenes. Being a mother I just wish that things weren't this way, but that seems naive and unrealistic. Anyway, your opinions have been cathartic for me.

...but back on topic,

the argument seems to have been largely about whether enlisting in the military is automatically grounds for being considered a "hero." Obviously it's not.

Risking your own life to save another, heroic.
Risking your own life to end another, horrific.

...and in between we have many grey areas.

Kind of like when people dismissed John Kerry's purple hearts because they felt he was over there purely to get the honors and, ergo, didn't deserve them.

Get it?

Satchel, I hope you will answer MY question.

How going into Iraq may help the US of A, by Useless Git.

Running from a problem has never solved a problem. The Middle East is a problem. Ignoring a problem has never solved a problem. The Middle East is a problem. There will never be peace in this world as long as there are people that teach their children from birth that suicide bombing is acceptable and that anyone who is not of your tribe deserves to die. The second to last place where human barbarity is on full public display is the Middle East. Not only do they have all the oil that makes this world run, they have a lot of money, and the willingness to buy lots of weapons to kill you for god.

Since we know that a Democracy will always fare better for the people of a nation than dictatorship, we COULDN'T make the situation any worse than it was, than to try and make Iraq over into a country that could be a modle of freedom and an example to the rest of the Middle East that there is another way.

errr..ok man. I don't support Iraq's occupation. I'm clearly a liberal. moving on.

equ, you are right that just being a soldier does not automaticaly make one a hero, but neither should it automaticaly get scron from people who don't like either the current administration, the mission of the US military, or have an aversion to violence.

They do deserve respect and they do deserve gratitude to be willing to do the hard job. That's all.

The real hero's are the ones that come up with nekkid pictures of hwat chiks.

Satchel

Who cares about your lable..what is a better solution in your opinion..it isn't that tough a question unless as I suspect you have no better solution and would rather just tear down than build up.

I'm very proud of you Satchel !! :) Once you admit what you are, the healing can begin!

Ok. So simply put: democracy equals the end of terrorism? Shall we discuss covert funding of terrorist coups by various democracies? I'm assuming that if the recently "elected" officials in Iraq were taught from birth to suicide bomb, they suddenly don't want that anymore because they were elected. Furthermore, an elected official that hates America wouldn't have the means to covertly support terror?

Satchel,

Do you actually have a thought of your own? or do you just bounce around off of other people's opinions that you disagree with?

No, Satchel. Just because there is an elected government does not guarantee that a state will not support terror. We do know that in the Middle East that the dictatorships DO support terror, and there is no mechanism (short of a glowing crater) in place to make them change. The *theory* is that a democraticaly elected state is MORE likely to live in peace than a dictator ship. If history is a leson, most wars were started by dictatorships than non-dictatorships.

There are no guarantees in life. But if we did nothing, we know what the outcome would be (more of the same).

I'm proud of you too man. Just stay away from roadside checks when you're over there dealing out of the freedom.

Dozhdbog:

Dipshiat Pinko Greed Machine would be a great name for a band.

I don't particularly like the current situation in Iraq, I wasn't completely convinced it was the best solution at the time we went, but I heard no better solution from either side. Tearing down the leadership we have without offering a better solution would be the same mistake as tearing out Saddam without a replacement plan. That Iraq replacement didn't go as we planned, no one argues that, but that doesn't mean we should walk away and leave the place to fend for itself...maybe there is a way better solution...I would like to hear one.

Need I say more!!!???

Check out this link. <img

http://www.oliverblake.com/Ready_to_order.html

Gee, I don't know what to say Satchel. Only, I'm probably not going to Iraq, since by the time I get done with OCS, and can be deployed, there may not be anywhere to deploy to. I can only hope. My wife is adamant that I don't go, but if I go, I go.

How am I bouncing off other people's opinions? Did you come up with that whole "we'll make an example out of Iraq by scaring Islamo Fachists" yourself?

madpiper,

They are playing at the Blues Basement in Seattle tomorrow night.

uselessgit

...and this chick is neither nekkid, nor "hawt," nor a soldier, nor a hero.

Discuss.

Satchel,

Ok, I misspelled fachist...again...so, now, that misspelling was MINE...what is YOUR solution?????????

Well, there are plenty of other dictatorships to go around. If the plan is really as you claim, you'll have plenty of freedom to spread.

Preacher.

I had a phiosophy class in college, and the rule was that criticizim without a plausable alternitive is useless and therefore not something that could be used in debate. I like that idea. Yea, I want to see more of what the left has in mind to fight the terrorists, besides "Ignore", and "Send covert ops in at night, blah, blah (hollywood fiction) blah"

NOT A COUNTER TRY AGAIN.

I SAID that it's the ME as a main problem. Money+Oil+1500 year old grudge+religious fanaticism=worse than someplace else.

Preacher..

What, conservitive, in SEATTLE!!!

I'M not alone!!!

sorry, I live over the mountain and just come over for the entertainment value of watching the liberal wackos in action.

Well, time to go home, waited an extra half-hour at work to see if Satchel could come up with a reasonable self made answer to the solution question. Oh well.

uselessgit

Then your teacher was wrong.

Take this:

You don't like worms crawling around on your kitchen table.
On your kitchen table lies a can of, inexplicably live, worms.
For some dumbass reason, you open said can of worms.
Your brother is standing behind you and says "dude, what'd you do that for? The worms were sealed up in that can just fine. Now look what you did!"
You start screaming "It doesn't matter! Help me contain the worms!"
Your brother stands there looking rather miffed, lights a cigarette and wanders off to get a beer, which he enjoys as you scramble around with the worms.
Leaving the worms writhing around, multiplying profusely, you run in and lambast your brother for not supporting you in your worm-containing effort.
He takes another puff on his cigarette, causing you to go into some rant about how damaging that is, and says "dude, your mess, you clean it up."
You then proceed to exclaim that if he doesn't support your self-caused worm infestation problem that he should go live somewhere else because he's not showing you the respect you deserve for being the honorable, sacrificing worm-cleaner-upper.

...he takes another drag on his cigarette and wanders off to get another beer.

Sooo... basicaly, when the bombs fall near equu, he's somehow imune from the effects...

Oh..OK... Got it... yea...

Just, please don't play with sharp objects, ok???

Please tell me you are not from Spokane Preacher?

uselessgit

No, but I'd make damned sure my mortar was aimed in the direction the bomb came from instead of just lobbing explosives at the most convenient target.

Afghanistan, I supported -- it was a Just War and very, very few people denied that. Iraq is a politically-motivated clusterfark of epic proportions.

Taking the headline literally, maybe it's the best job she could get?

Not sure getting shot at beats "do you want fries with that?" but that's just me.

equu only wishes he were HST

What WOULD you do to end terrorism?

If you think it's ever going to end, you're really stupid.

haha..the joke's on you, moron. More like you stayed at work to attempt a list of how occupied Iraq is like occupied Germany. Face it, you swung and missed, then tried to put the burden of explanation on me. I didn't propose that I had a solution. I asked how the means "occupying Iraq" helps achieve the desired end "safety." I'll say this though: I'm not gonna support a "solution" just because the politician that spoonfed it to me also has an (R) behind his name. Pity.


Oh well..I guess if you stayed at work to use the internet, you probably don't have it at home. So I'll catch you in the funny pages.

the_god_ninti said:

Are you completely unable to make the distinction between objecting to the Armed Forces being in Iraq and objecting to the Armed Forces in general? Are you that stupid?



This is how the liberal left supports someone who joins the military:

"I support the armed forces, but you're a dumbass for signing up to fight a war I don't believe in. Serves you right if your pretty little face is blown off by an IED. Oh, and good luck...you tool of US imperialism."

Do you know what sedition is? Guess what guys - sedition is a crime, not a Constitutional right.

You know how you support the troops without supporting the war? You smile at the troops when they get on the bus, send them care packages, and throw a parade when they come home. You write stories in the paper about the battles they win, the bombs they defuse, and the terrorists arrested without a shot being fired and you keep it proportional to the stories that don't go so well.

Then, when you have the opportunity, you vote for a President who will "bring the troops home" even if it means not finishing the job and makes their sacrifice meaningless.

You had your chance. You lost. You weren't robbed - you lost. You can try again to convince the country how much smarter you are than everyone else in 2008. Until then...time to STFU and actually support the troops.

Do you know what sedition is?

Yes, but apparently you don't.

equusdc: Do you know what sedition is?

Yes, but apparently you don't.

Shhhh,

He might know how to use Google or Wiki.

haha...opposing the war is sedition? wow..it keeps getting better.

The liberals will never get it, ever.

/Salute.

Army girsl are 80% hideous beasts...
and the remaining 20%, not all doable.. are getting ridden REAL hard weekly.

Army, when your ASVAB scores, career choices, childhood and future all suck, we'll be waiting.

Taking the headline literally, maybe it's the best job she could get?

Not sure getting shot at beats "do you want fries with that?" but that's just me.

What do you expect from someone who didn't finish highschool? No follow through or discipline. Doesn't have the foresight or experience to know what she is getting into. She's in for a rude awakening.