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(WGAL Channel)   Halloween parade cancelled after reverend enters anti-abortion float, "Dr. Butcher's Chop Shop of Choice Cuts"   (thewgalchannel.com ) divider line
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16688 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jul 2005 at 4:55 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-28 07:27:10 PM  
Cloudchaser_the_red_wolf_furry

Parade was put on by a private group. Free Speech doesn't come into the picture. Civics 101 for you.
 
2005-07-28 07:27:57 PM  
Hideously Gigantic Smurf

There wasn't any implication to my statement other than you wouldn't consider something that feeds off of you to be a part of your body. If you wanna yank that tick outta your forearm, I'll support you.

Obviously your body is affected by the baby and deciding whether or not to keep the baby affects your body. But by aborting you affect the baby's body as well. Does this mean that the baby's body and life are less important than the mother's? This boils down to when you think we become human, which will never be answered. Basically, what I'm saying is there are WAY better arguments here than the feminist body one.
 
2005-07-28 07:30:15 PM  
I HATE FUNDIE CHRISTIANS. MIND YOUR OWN GODDAMN BUSINESS, YOU GRUBBY LITTLE PHUQUE-NUGGETS.

And do not think for a moment that getting the whole parade cancelled was NOT in this shjtgobbler's calculations.

Religious fanaticism should be a capital crime. Osama, Falwell, whoever: line 'em up and shoot 'em in the back of the head. No group of humans farks up everyone's life as much as religious fanatics.

SFY
 
2005-07-28 07:31:40 PM  
jst3p: If you saw your neighbor beating their kid bloody would you "mind your own bid-ness"?


[image from eclecticala.com too old to be available]
 
2005-07-28 07:31:44 PM  
jst3p: If you saw your neighbor beating their kid bloody would you "mind your own bid-ness"?


Would you enter a float of a father beating a bloody child in a Haloween parade to raise awareness?
 
2005-07-28 07:32:30 PM  
Oh c'mon Cloudchaser, this isn't about anyone's right to express their views. It's about the appropriateness of expressing one's views about a very sensitive adult issue during a Halloween parade that will be viewed by hundreds of children.

This minister guy is an attention whoring asshat that doesn't give one shiat about anyone else's feelings. He's willing to destroy a fun time for a lot of kids in an attempt to publicise an issue that already receives sufficient publicity.
 
2005-07-28 07:33:28 PM  
I HATE FUNDIE CHRISTIANS. MIND YOUR OWN GODDAMN BUSINESS, YOU GRUBBY LITTLE PHUQUE-NUGGETS.

Although I think using a parade to make any kind of political statement is assinine, if it were a small town, and some group entered a gay themed float and the parade got cancelled most of you would be biatching about the private sponser that choose not to fund the parade.
 
2005-07-28 07:33:35 PM  
I thought fetus eating was an Chinese specialty, not a Christian one!
[image from img158.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
2005-07-28 07:33:44 PM  
2wolves

If you don't like abortion, don't have one.

Thought it was worth repeating.

Attention, Pro-Lifers: We don't stomp into your homes and churches, interrupting your prayer. Your business is yours, and ours is ours. My uterus and whatever is created inside it is my business and mine alone. I am not part of your agenda. Got it? Good.
 
2005-07-28 07:34:45 PM  
A fetus is not a child. A fetus has not brain stem. Without a brain stem you can't feel anything.

I had my child aborted. It was just a clump of fleshy bits sucked out, and one of the best decisions of my life.

Never felt bad, never will. Too many people breeding the way it is.
 
2005-07-28 07:35:40 PM  
They did this in Tampa. Some dipshiat at Ybor Krewe didn't realize what they were allowing and they accidentally allowed it in. "Without Walls", the most criminal and largest church group in our area.

/Those ass-hats called me for an ATM for their church
//The President of the company lives in a posh pad and drives a Ferrari.
///Religion is not supposed to be about money
 
2005-07-28 07:35:41 PM  


Would you enter a float of a father beating a bloody child in a Haloween parade to raise awareness?


No, but I was merely pointing out that his whole stance of "mind your own bidnes" demonstrates he clearly does not understand the opposing side of the issue, contrary to his claims.
 
2005-07-28 07:37:23 PM  
MorePeasPlease:

The ACLU gives lip service to protecting all of our Constitutional rights. I just want them to either actually do it, or instead say they are strictly for defending Amendments X&Y, but not Z.

the ACLU works their collective ass off. i fail to see that as 'lip service' simply because they are not a carbon copy of the NRA.

as a gun owner, i'm quite content with the work done by the NRA. as an american, i'm quite content with the work done by the ACLU. i damn sure don't agree with them on every issue, but i don't have to. it's intentionally myopic to filter something as broad scope as the work of the aclu down to one topic, and make an overall value judgement based upon it.

yes, i too would be a happier camper if they spent the time and energy on protecting the 2nd ammendment where it is challenged. that doesn't negate the work they've done in other areas...that no one else is doing.
 
2005-07-28 07:38:45 PM  
SaintBrook

I'd be interested to hear your views on the drop in crime rates this last decade.

I thought Levitt made a good argument. Which is to say that I haven't heard too many other good reasons that were able to explain the phenomenon.

/Still interesting that while the violent crime rate dropped, we somehow became more afraid of being victims of violent crime
 
2005-07-28 07:39:01 PM  
Attention, Pro-Lifers: We don't stomp into your homes and churches, interrupting your prayer. Your business is yours, and ours is ours. My uterus and whatever is created inside it is my business and mine alone. I am not part of your agenda. Got it? Good.

This bears repeating too:

It is not just a religious belief, it is a philisophical one. Some people, even some non-religious people, believe that a fetus is a human bieng. IF that is true then abortion kills a human bieng. It may not affect me but your logic says that if I see someone being killed I should stay out of it because it does not affect me.

I am not saying that a fetus is or isn't a "person", but I can see that the people who are anti-abortion think they are. And since you have nothing but your opinion to prove them right or wrong (because the definition of a "person" is so subjective) then it is not as simple as "if it ain't hurting you stay out of it".


"It isn't any of your business." is not a fully appropriate responce and shows you lack understanding of the issue.

Is you none of my business when I see a mother beating her kid bloody at the park?
 
2005-07-28 07:41:08 PM  
2wolves

Why is it that the freakist freaks in the anti-abortion movement are males? Deep, justifiable, fear that they'll never get to reproduce?

You tore me a new one a few days ago but I had to respond to your post since it was good. I often wonder why the freakiest of the freaks on the pro-abotion side are hideous lumberjack women. (Not all, just the militant one's) Is it because they are unjustifiably afraid of getting pregnant? Not trying to start an arguement, but I see your point & had to share.

//pro-choice because some people don't deserve to be parents.
 
2005-07-28 07:42:28 PM  
Maybe the fetuses want to die... Nobody ever thinks of that!!!
 
2005-07-28 07:42:38 PM  
jst3p:

demonstrates he clearly does not understand the opposing side of the issue, contrary to his claims.

i'm just curious if you had to conciously ignore the portion of that post that stated having had 12 abortions that ended up in a school lunch program in order to take it seriously, or if you took that seriously as well.

jst3p: s you none of my business when I see a mother beating her kid bloody at the park?

It is not just a religious belief, it is a philisophical one. Some people, even some non-religious people, believe that a fetus is a human bieng.


your own statement answers that one. if your philosophical belief is that aborting a fetus is not harming a human being, your question might be better asked 'if you saw a mother beating up a bloody tampon at the park, is it any of your business?'.
 
2005-07-28 07:43:23 PM  
jst3p

Is you none of my business when I see a mother beating her kid bloody at the park?

I was unaware that they performed abortions in parks in full view of thousands of people.
 
2005-07-28 07:43:34 PM  
jst3p,

i take it through your continued post of "beating kids to bloody pulps" that you have not grasped the point of this thread.

you need a nap. or an abortion. either or.

have fun!
 
2005-07-28 07:44:15 PM  
Abortion is so personal and controversial, maybe we shouldnt let the government decide if it is right or not.


I think Abortion is wrong, but I do not think the law should make that decision for everybody.


I am now going to the Seattle Mariners game. I accept your pity.
 
2005-07-28 07:44:55 PM  
my favorite dead baby joke:

Q: What's the difference between a truckload of dead babies and a truckload of bowling balls?

A: You can't unload a truckload of bowling balls with a pitchfork.
 
2005-07-28 07:45:41 PM  

I was unaware that they performed abortions in parks in full view of thousands of people.


So beating your kid bloody is ok if it is not in public?
 
2005-07-28 07:46:44 PM  
AAAAAAARG!:

so what if people are having abortions? BFD! until every anti-abortion yahoo goes out and adopts a bunch of abandond crack babies, S . T . F . U!


Worth repeating. Give a shiat about the already born and maybe I'll pay more attention to your arguments. Otherwise, you're just like all the armchair christians that came out in droves when MA legalized gay marriage.

But when it comes to spending a few hours a week counseling prisoners or drug addicts? "uh, well, you see that's sort of when I catch up on TV." Gotta love people so desperate for a cause that they know won't require any hard work or getting dirt under their fingernails.
 
2005-07-28 07:46:53 PM  
First of all, abortion is LEGAL, therefore a murder was not committed. Now you hysterical types can feel free to stop calling it "murder".

Second of all, according to the bible (see Genesis 2:7) man wasn't alive until he took his first breath.

Lastly, Hosea 8:11-16. Even god was an abortionist.
 
2005-07-28 07:47:39 PM  
I think that cows have souls.

I want laws passed that outlaw the slaughter and consumption of any and all cow products. I want people imprisoned for wearing leather jackets, or eating hamburgers. Cows have souls, so it is philisophically wrong to murder a cow.
 
2005-07-28 07:47:42 PM  
your opinion is colored by the belief that an abortion is similar to beating a kid bloody.

of course they aren't the same thing and of course you should stop someone from beating a kid bloody.

however

an abortion isn't similar to beating a kid bloody and in fact are different in that the supreme court and a mojority of americans support abortion.
 
2005-07-28 07:47:43 PM  
2005-07-28 07:35:41 PM jst3p

"Would you enter a float of a father beating a bloody child in a Haloween parade to raise awareness?"

If the "father" was beating his "bloody child" to death to instill solid Christian values in him, you bet I would. That's what Halloween is all about.
 
2005-07-28 07:48:31 PM  
AAAAAAARG!

There are many points in this thread and I am commenting on several of them.

The beating kids bloody comparision is for those who think the issue is as simple as "mind your own business". It isn't.
 
2005-07-28 07:48:56 PM  
Cubrous2

when christians do volunteer their services they are attacked for bible thumping, regardless of their intentions.
 
2005-07-28 07:50:20 PM  
oh the poor poor christians.
 
2005-07-28 07:50:27 PM  
who hurt you, jst3p? were you beat to a bloody pulp? does "abortion" translate differently where you come from?

"Abortions for some, minature american flags for others!"

have fun!
 
2005-07-28 07:52:26 PM  
jst3p

"It isn't any of your business." is not a fully appropriate responce and shows you lack understanding of the issue.

Oh, is that so? I was under the impression there wasn't a "right" or "wrong" regarding this issue. If a sperm meets an egg inside my uterus, I have every right to decide what to do with it because it is a part of me and, as I believe it, not life for many days. If a 300 lb woman without a period for 4 months freaks out because she "didn't notice she was pregnant" and decides to get an abortion, that's her decision. It wouldn't be mine, but it isn't yours either. Do you think it's easy for any woman to get an abortion? Of course it's not. It's a hard choice that women (and their partners) make based on their situation, and no one, especially some crazy christian nut, can make a better decision than they can.
 
2005-07-28 07:53:34 PM  
* How do you get 100 babies into a bucket?
With a blender!

* How do you get them out again?
With tortilla chips!!!
 
2005-07-28 07:54:28 PM  
Felgraf

Not sure. Are you today who you will be tomorrow?


No. No one is the same person they were an instant ago. We look and sound pretty much the same on a day-to-day basis, but we are much more a process than any specific thing. We manufacture the concept of "self" and an identity that is an extremely useful tool, but bogs us down into delusion when we confuse this conceptual tool with what is actually happening.
 
2005-07-28 07:54:44 PM  
an abortion isn't similar to beating a kid bloody and in fact are different in that the supreme court and a mojority of americans support abortion.

Appeal to authority and appeal to majority. Two fallacies in one statement, good work.

The majority of people in our country think "Everyone Loves Raymond" is a good show.

Is killing a fetus the same as killing a person? I don't know for sure, neither do you. No one likely ever will for sure. My point is that people that are anti-abortion think that it is, and since it can not be proven that they are or they aren't, their point of view is just as valid as your smug assertion that your opinion is a fact.

A "fetus" is a person. Opinion

A "fetus" is not a person. Opinion.

Neither can be demonstrated to be true or false.

Presenting your opinion as fact = poor debate skills.
 
2005-07-28 07:54:55 PM  
theeagle

i'd love to see the float of all the crack addict babies and dead babys in the dumpster.

this will happen more without full access to abortion.

its like when you see little kids at these anti-abortion protests. some places its illegal to push your views on yours or other kids this way. but of course the police are not willing to bust these bad parents. when the kids get old enough to decide for themselves whether or not they condone one way or the other is when they can protest their parents crazy cause.


Ok man, I have to call shenanagains, since when is it illegal to push your political views on your kids? Are we talking outside the US?
 
2005-07-28 07:55:27 PM  
I luv abortion. The more liberals that kill off their own, the better. Fark all you losers.

You bastard. How dare you call the president a liberal. Rich familys businessmen have to get their mistresses abortions too damnit, or it could effect their career and reputation.

Of course most abortions are done by a mother who is way too poor to look after the child and when poverty is dealt with abortions numbers crash. The harder the poor have it the more abortions there are.
 
2005-07-28 07:55:38 PM  
jst3p: If you saw your neighbor beating their kid bloody would you "mind your own bid-ness"?

YES. I would.
Because it's not my problem or business.

Then again, I rarely pay attention to what other people are doing -- I tend to respect privacy, and treat others as I wish to be treated; that is, I ignore/avoid most people/things and go about my life as I wish. And I wish more people did this.
 
2005-07-28 07:57:28 PM  

Oh, is that so? I was under the impression there wasn't a "right" or "wrong" regarding this issue.


This is where you are mistaken. There is a "right" or "wrong". Either you are killing a person or you aren't. The tricky part is no on knows for sure if an abortion kills a "person". If you claim to, I would like to see your proof. The only proof I see either way is an arbitrary definition what makes something a "person".
 
2005-07-28 07:58:09 PM  
jst3p: Appeal to authority and appeal to majority. Two fallacies in one statement, good work.

what title would you give to 'changing the topic from an unclear position that could be interpreted either way, to a different situation that can not'?

i'd call it Appeal to 3 Card Monte, but it doesn't have much of a ring to it.
 
2005-07-28 07:58:22 PM  
MorePeasPlease

2005-07-28 05:57:25 PM MyrnaMinkoff [TotalFark]


There already exists a large organization with billions of dollars set to defend the second amendment: the NRA. I have the same gripe with a lot of liberals being "pro-civil liberties" so long as firearms aren't involved, but I can't fault the ACLU for forgoing firearms suits because those are already amply covered. For the ACLU to take on 2nd amendment cases would be a waste of resources.

/gives to both
 
2005-07-28 07:59:03 PM  
AAAAAAARG!

Continue to make posts that have zero substance but include personal attacks, it really makes your point clear.
 
2005-07-28 07:59:14 PM  
This one is pretty bad:

What do you get when you cut a baby with a straight razor?
An erection.
 
2005-07-28 07:59:27 PM  
For the Christians in the audience, I post this question. If a baby is aborted, does its soul go to heaven?
 
2005-07-28 08:00:31 PM  
jst3p

Appeal to authority and appeal to majority. Two fallacies in one statement, good work.

Says the one relying on appeals to pity and prejudicial language.

Pot, meet Kettle.
 
2005-07-28 08:01:13 PM  
jst3p

Presenting your opinion as fact = poor debate skills.


actually mr. debater I never stated my opinion at all...never in my post that you reference did I ever say what I thought. Execpt that the example of beating a child bloody is not the same thing as an abortion.

I never said a fetus is or isn't a person.

and really to perfectly honest to appeal to a majority/authority I first would have had to of expressed an opinion with which that majority/authority could have backed me up.

simply put I listed a couple of reasons that the example you gave (beating a kid bloody and an abortion being similar) isn't at all the same thing.

in closing I'd like to say you calling me smug is a hoot and I like everybody loves raymond.
 
2005-07-28 08:01:28 PM  
What the... Where the hell is Bevets? And Walkingtall, Mike_71, Catholic Samurai, and whoever else I've forgotten?
 
2005-07-28 08:01:50 PM  

what title would you give to 'changing the topic from an unclear position that could be interpreted either way, to a different situation that can not'?


To be honest, I was not trying to equate abortion with beating a kid, I was merely demonstrating that "mind yourown business" is not always appropriate, nor is it always the right thing to do.

That being said I can see how my making that comparison looks like equating the two, and that makes me guilty of a strawman fallacy actually.

Care to respond to the rest of that post?
 
2005-07-28 08:03:35 PM  
I agree with those that say "mind your own business" isn't an appropriate response. If the pro-lifers are right, then abortion is objectively morally bad, regardless of the situation. The point of view they hold cannot be watered down.

As to the question of what constitutes life, I think it is the wrong question. It's quite clear that a fetus in any stage of development is living (as a single cell organism is considered to be alive). The real question is when a fetus becomes a real human, and I do not think this is so difficult to work out.

There are two branches we can take: the soul exists, and we have no souls.

If we have no souls, then human life must be measured consciousness (pure awareness of surroundings and intentionality (the ability to feel ways about stuff)). When does this take place? When the brain starts to form into its final setup - brainwaves in the fetus lose their random quality and stabilize into the forms seen in newborns, and neurons start to form connections with each other (around 25 weeks). Past this point, there is a very strong possibility that the fetus is thinking, and the development of consciousness begins. Before this point, there is very little chance that the fetus is thinking, as there are no neural connections between parts of the brain, or the brain and the body. To believe that consciousness begins in the brain and that consciousness begins before the brain is connected would be to throw out the entire field of neurobiology.

If we instead believe that the soul exists, then we must determine at what time the soul enters or is attached to a fetus, which is impossible because a soul cannot be detected by science. Not much of an argument, but there it is.

/0.02
 
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