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(National Post)   Guilt beats discipline in motivating children   ( divider line
    More: Interesting  
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3012 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2002 at 10:11 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

92 Comments     (+0 »)

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2002-04-16 10:43:18 PM  
I was a child
2002-04-16 10:44:32 PM  
Im tired of fighting flamewars. Lets just agree to disagree.
2002-04-16 10:45:20 PM  
Y'know, I've found in my experience that people seem to remember being spanked a lot more than they actually were. My parents tell me they spanked me maybe about five times, but I certainly remembered them.
2002-04-16 10:45:45 PM  
Yes, children should learn the difference between right and wrong.

Domination through fear - wrong.
Manipulating another's emotions - wrong.
Trickery - wrong.

You cannot teach a child to be good by being bad.
2002-04-16 10:48:19 PM  
You are right, Rass, that a child's bad actions should reap bad consequences.

I just happen to be founded in Quaker pacifism.
2002-04-16 10:49:32 PM  
no shiat
2002-04-16 10:49:58 PM  
Maybe parents should start harassing their bad children through IM's, cell phone calls, and so on.
2002-04-16 10:51:14 PM  
wow... this is getting quite.. creepy.. lets liven things up a bit: I still get spanked, but I call the girl mommy :)
2002-04-16 10:51:24 PM  
i like to consider myself a "recovering" catholic...

with that in mind...


sigh. i'm tired and cranky and should go take a long bubble bath...but my guilt would keep me from doing that, incase the roomies need the bathroom.

i suppose i'll say a few hail mary's instead...
2002-04-16 10:52:07 PM  
Oh and Rass, I wuz just buttin' heads with you.
It's all good, buddy.
2002-04-16 10:53:07 PM  
But Jade, just because something works, does that mean it is right to use it?
2002-04-16 10:54:10 PM  
I love it when people think that spanking a child produces violent adults.

I guess all those kids who's parents were never even around enough to spank them never rape, beat, or abuse other people?

I knew a few preps from highschool who were never beaten, but were the most violent and abusive people I knew.

I also knew a few kids who's fathers used the belt and they were polite, respectful, and actually cared more about other people than themselves.

It's not the action (punishment) but the reason behind the action the child learns from.
2002-04-16 10:55:59 PM  
Guilt works in motivating kids in the same way that getting shot motivates you to seek medical attention for the flu
2002-04-16 10:56:37 PM  
"I don't understand. He was always such a nice boy."
2002-04-16 10:58:02 PM  
That's why we always loved your brother more.
2002-04-16 10:58:24 PM  
...and Catholics.

In all honesty, I was typically a good child, aside from being a stark raving homosexual, just because I never wanted to disappoint my parents.

Some kids care about that. I suppose that can be 'guilt'.
2002-04-16 10:58:40 PM  
DINGO: Oh, wicked, bad, naughty, evil Zoot! Oh, she is a naughty person, and she must pay the penalty -- and here in Castle Anthrax, we have but one punishment for setting alight the grail-shaped beacon. You must tie her down on a bed and spank her!

GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking!

DINGO: You must spank her well. And after you have spanked her, you may deal with her as you like. And then, spank me.

VARIOUS GIRLS: And spank me. And me. And me.

DINGO: Yes, yes, you must give us all a good spanking!

GIRLS: A spanking! A spanking!
2002-04-16 10:59:12 PM  
The study, which scrutinized the reactions of children between the ages of two and four after they were led to believe they had damaged valuable objects...

Ooh. I love it. Tramatize little kids over something they didn't do to see how they react!

2002-04-16 11:06:24 PM  
Ummmm...there was no political comment there from me Nanook...and i already saw how well the "agree to disagree" thing went through instead, as a "good" catholic, i'll just recite some scripture...errr...well, not scripture. Jesus Christ Superstar. :)

"What is truth? Is truth unchanging laws? We both have truths, are mine the same as yours?"
2002-04-16 11:11:40 PM  
Lectures are the best way of tortu... erm... disciplining your children. Just talk and talk and talk and talk and fuc.kin' talk until your kids want to JAB A FU.CKING KNIFE THROUGH YOUR CHEST!!! GRAOHEREHNGU!
2002-04-16 11:13:44 PM  
No no no. You misunderstand my intent. I was merely trying to introduce the question, which is more important, making kids behave now or teaching them how to control themselves later. I blame my own clumsiness for miscommunicating this idea.

JCS was great stuff:
Don't call it blood money
It's a fee, nothing more
2002-04-16 11:15:04 PM  
Could anybody sell me some of those old Hot Wheels tracks. Not to spank my kids but because I can't find them anywhere in stores. These days all you get are the stupid loops and jumps.
2002-04-16 11:15:49 PM  
Flea markets, Sam.
2002-04-16 11:18:08 PM  
Or ebay.
2002-04-16 11:19:05 PM  
In each case, the stuffed cat, tea cup or doll used in the experiment was set up to fall apart as soon as the child began to touch it.

How do you make a stuffed cat fall apart when someone touches it? I suppose a little explosive would work, especially in the area of the head. Nothing like an exploding cat to get a child to feel guilt...
2002-04-16 11:19:42 PM  
truth is eternal. one can hide the truth for a time, maybe a long time, but the truth will make it's presence known in the end. i worship the truth.
2002-04-16 11:26:57 PM  
04-16-02 10:36:59 PM Nanookanano

I don't know if you have kids or not. I've got two, 16 and 18. My dad was career military and pretty distant in his relations with my brother and I. He wasn't shy about using his belt when he thought it was necessary. I didn't care for that so I decided I'd raise my kids differently and try to explain more, listen more and generally refrain from corporal punishment.
The 16 year old, although he tests at a very high level, refuses (once literally)to do any homework he "doesn't like". He brings home f's, d's and c's. He stays grounded. Been going on for three years now.
The 18 year old was in an advanced program that provided for him to graduate from high school with his AA. He shined on the last half of his junior year and all of his senior year and BARELY graduated from High School. (1410 on his SAT).
The point? I think if I had whacked the crap out of them a couple of times when they were 10-11 and convinced them that I would do it as necessary they would be a lot better off today.
2002-04-16 11:34:47 PM  
the trick is to make your kids think that you don't ever deserve to be hurt...
and when they do something bad,
you tell them you're dissapointed... and you dont punish them at all. you punish them by your disapproval. just get it so your disapproval is the WORST thing in their mind. do everything nice for them, explain it, blah blah.

raise intelligent children. don't act like the government's stupid ass, and regulate their shiat. you're probably a shiatty God.

if you aren't leading by example, you're doing a shiatty job of parenting. anything else, any therapist tells you -- all of that - bullshiate.
2002-04-16 11:37:25 PM  
btw: i think the thing that changes all my curse words into words that just resemble curse words, is stupid.

any kid wading through these stupid comments is gonna be way more traumatized by the actual content of them -- not the curse words associating it. you're not teaching "kids" anything they don't already know.

the first step in eliminating curse words, is getting society to accept them as not-evil.
2002-04-17 12:03:56 AM  
Hitler bad, spankings good.
2002-04-17 12:04:01 AM  
A little spanking never hurt anyone.Spanking for every violation is not a good idea,however.
2002-04-17 12:14:33 AM  
You might be right Bitplayer. I do have a daughter, seven, who lives with her mother, a woman having neither morals nor character.

I think consistancy is probably the key. A stinging on the butt is nothing. Mixed messages, however, are tragic. If you must hit your kid, do it without anger.
2002-04-17 12:17:57 AM  
Oh . . Bit, my father always made it clear to us, all six of us, that we would be allowed to live in his house only so long as we pulled our weight. Don't let your kids ride you. If they're not following house rules, they need to move out. If they're not making grades, they need to be making money. "Period."
2002-04-17 12:19:55 AM  
I'm not saying my parents never spanked us, but what really kept me in line was the basic knowledge that my parent's would be upset if I did something wrong, and I didn't want them to be upset. You could hit me a hundred times and it wouldn't hurt as much as seeing my mother cry or see my father snort indignantly.

Just for the record, most of my more successful friends were NEVER spanked. (Or at least that is what they say) They live in this weird little-happy-land of daisies and flowers and commercial-alternative music.

(Hmmmm...not sure if I had kids I would want them like that either, but you get my point.)
2002-04-17 12:21:20 AM  
On the other hand, if I wanted to go back to school he would still let me move back into the house, if that would help.

I've got great family.
2002-04-17 12:25:15 AM  
04-17-02 12:17:57 AM Nanookanano
against the law here pal.
2002-04-17 12:26:07 AM  
I don't recall being spanked and if I was it must have been when I was very, very young. I never got in trouble and the main reason was that I alwasy felt like I was letting my parents down if I did get in trouble. They never yelled at me or hit me but the thought of letting them down kept me in line.
2002-04-17 12:41:17 AM  
Your son might have turned out better if you had administered a few FATAL BEATINGS of your own.
2002-04-17 01:35:44 AM  
Well duh! Isn't this something that every Jewish mother knows?

"Nine months! Nine months I carried you inside me. I was in labour for 146 hours straight, but did I complain? No. Not once. And then you were born and the doctors said that if I didn't stay in bed for a month it would kill me. But did I lay around? No. I was up changing the diapers and making the formula. I was the one who rocked you to sleep when you had the collic. Did I ever complain. Not once. Oh and you were such a fussy baby, always crying but I looked after you. I once went for five weeks straight with no more than 20 minutes of sleep a night. It was a small price to pay. I slaved my fingers to the bone for you because you were my precious little angel and now this... this is how I'm repaid. But that's okay, I guess I shouldn't expect anything more. I blame myself. If only I tried harder. But you know I did what I could what with this heart condition and all. The doctor says I could go at any moment really but I tell him, Oy! I should be so lucky. I can't go, not while my baby needs me."

"But Mah, all I did was return a videotape and forgot to rewind it."

"That's a 59 cent fine Hershal! A fine! But no, don't you worry yourself with that. You've obviously got more important things on your mind. I'll take care of this. This will probably go on my record, of course. I'll probably be banned from the videostore now. They may even call the police but don't let that bother you. After all I only carried you for nine months..."
2002-04-17 02:28:30 AM  
My parents didn't use guilt or pain to discipline me as a child. They reasoned with me a lot and I learned early on to understand what is considered good and what is considered bad, and why it's best for me to be good. It seems to me that it's the best way to raise a child.

Of course, I still did things wrong, and my mom had the most effective way I can think of to punish me. She would just make fun of me when I did something stupid. It's surprisingly effective. Kids I know who were punished by spankings or by guilt would tend to end up rebelling against their parents. If I ever tried that, rather than being angry, my mom would make me feel like such an idiot that I wouldn't think of doing it again. I also tended to catch when other kids were being stupid too, and didn't play along. I didn't realize until later that this was all probably due to the fact that she has a degree in psychology and worked in Marriage, Family, and Child Counseling before I was born.

A nice side effect is that I'm pretty much immune to manipulation from others due to guilt and threats of violence. I'm pretty resistant to ridicule, too, and only consider thoughtful and applicable insults worth acknowledging at all.
2002-04-17 02:43:38 AM  

I had to spank my step-daughter once.

She'd just blown me off about waiting until I got home to take her shopping and managed to lose $110 in the process (her reward for being a good student--lucky for her it turned up later).

I asked her why she didn't mind me. She said its because I never spank her.

I never had to spank her again.

2002-04-17 07:46:56 AM  
methinks its consisitency that;s the key here. Make the kid know that it was wrong, no matter how you do it. Some methods work for some, some don't. Eh, that's life I suppose.
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