beerbaron

Yeah, because Bush didn't lie.

/doesn't have time to argue this again
//WMD's are in Syria

Agree, let's not start this again (you'd lose hands down).

Emmanuel Goldstein has the WMDs right now.

These Dems are a feisty bunch since Bush is so horrible and they couldnt find ONE person in their entire party to beat him... Such a shame i would probably be bitter to and lash out like this.

"....which makes President Bush the greatest president ever. we'll be right back with more news, "fair and balanced"

click!

Mmkay, so just flickering through this thread, I've learned that Democrats think their main problem, the one thing about their Party that is holding them back from winning elections...is that Republicans are evil.

Interesting.

Doing what is right is not always popular, and doing what is popular is not always right. You can quote me on that.

Beerbaron is funny!

Thanks, I'll be here all week. Tell your freinds!

firefly212: I'm for an end to eminent domain ammendment

That was passed thanks to the liberal justices on the Supreme Court, voted against by Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas, and O'Conner.

Funny, that's exactly what the Republicans did.

It's tough for the Democratic Party to come up with a platform because leftists tend to think for themselves.

The Republicans have no such problems with the individuals they attract. To them it's all about party loyalty above all else. I faintly hear Godwin calling...

Sloth_DC:

Mmkay, so just flickering through this thread, I've learned that Democrats think their main problem, the one thing about their Party that is holding them back from winning elections...is that Republicans are evil.

I think what's keeping Democrats from winning is their platform is, well... the Bush Agenda, except when the Bush Agenda isn't going well. It's like "Oh, we'll do what they want to do except we'll do it better!"

If the Bush Agenda were going well they'd be running on the same platform.

cry0fan: About 2/3rds of all federal American taxes go to the war machine, most of it hidden and funneled through alternate routes.

Actually, it's about 1/6th of all federal American taxes go to the war machine.

beerbaron: WMD's are in Syria


Whatever helps you sleep better at night. Fool.

SacriliciousBeerSwiller

Funny, that's exactly what the Republicans did.

You mean like Clinton's abandonment of healthcare reform or his sudden conversion to welfare reforming?

To them it's all about party loyalty above all else. I faintly hear Godwin calling...

That's rich.

beerbaron
mamrou

I don't disagree with the USA entering WWII, because the Nazis and the Japanese Military were committing atrocities and needed to be stopped.

Which had nothing to do with any of that! FDR realized that our ass would eventually be on the line. If you think that FDR gave a rat's rear about the atrocities you better think again. His motive was preservation of our own country. He had to fight against pacifists in the us and a bunch of those "peaceniks" were actually Nazi sympathizers. Ever heard of the Bunt? Thought not. Similar to the Jane Fonda commie symps that sabotaged the Viet Nam war because secretly they sided with the enemy. I understand she is at it again, along with all the other Dems today (Lieberman excepted) who want us all to drink the Kool Aid and let the terrorists in. Let's not profile young Arabic men, that would be a violation of our principles!

Ugh. Do you believe everything they say on fox?

Not bombing innocent people != letting the terrorists in.
Not torturing people without trial != therapy
Not making new enemies != giving the terrorists what they want
Bombing an unrelated country that is actually enemies with the terrorists != Fighting the terrorists



At what point did Logic run off screaming into the woods?

/doesn't have time to argue this again
//WMD's are in Syria
///you'll find out when they ship one in a cargo container to your city

Yeah sure, they are in Syria. It is a good thing I own stock in the aluminum foil industry, you will probably fund my retirement making your hat.

I do agree that searching briefcases in NYC is worthless though.

Can you tell us if that is the situation in Canada? For example, how much does it cost to register a car? Do you have property taxes? How much for a regular home annually?

There are fees for everything here too: examples
my property tax in Toronto: $2500/year (and that's pretty low)
turn off the water to do some work on your pipes-$15, back on $15
electricity bill-includes a surcharge for "debt relief"-paying off Hydro's debts from years past
Ontario now has a health tax as well, my income bracket is an extra $300/year (goes from 0-$600/year)
marriage license-$125
the list goes on, nothing is free anymore

tarrant84

That was passed thanks to the liberal justices on the Supreme Court, voted against by Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas, and O'Conner.

But hey, it's for the "Greater Good!"

Eh, comrades?

Farkin A

These Dems are a feisty bunch since Bush is so horrible and they couldnt find ONE person in their entire party to beat him... Such a shame i would probably be bitter to and lash out like this.

I think Dean could have won, but we let a couple small states' (Iowa, NH) moderates choose a man with less charisma than a below average cadaver. I think the whole primary system needs to be redone, everyone should all do it on the same day, so no individual state gets a disproportionate amount of power. I further think that centrists are ruining the Democratic Party in the same way that religious zealots are ruining the Republicans (I remember when Republicans used to be conservative). Anyhoos, the whole system is farked, it's not that there were no better candidates than Kerry, it's that a bunch of cornfield pussies tried to pick someone who was more 'electable' by virtue of his spinelessness.

Funny, The Icelander makes a wonderful list of what he, a democrat, stands for, which happens to be the majority view of most democrats. Sure, some Democrats will quibble about one or two issues on his list, but that's what you get when you put a lot of ideas together.

The thing I find funny is that the DLC, Hillary and the other centrists want to pull AWAY from these ideas and become more centrist to gain support. They are idiots. A lot of people in the middle are rather gullible and side with the team that has more energy.

And how does a party get more energy? They incite their base. They do not move to the center, they clearly define themselves as what they are. For the liberals, they must define themselves as on the left. John Doe Liberal will love that to death and form a community of John Doe Liberals who will talk up the Democratic Party and bring to light the platform that they have (and always had, just not available to the masses, due to more reasons I can put in brackets). The centrists who are liberal at heart will then feel confident in the Democratic party and vote for them.

Going back to The Icelander's list, the list happens to match very closely to ones created on DailyKos every so often. And, for those who shy away from one-sided blogs, the DailyKOS community for the most part is very anti-DLC, mostly because they like moving to center, dislike (or don't know how to handle) grass roots, and are influences by big business.

Moving to the center is not the answer. The centrists really need their own party instead of trying to tack themselves on to either party. Instead, these centrist congresspeople keep switching from party to party depending on what feels more center to them.

What's up with the personal attack? When did my post say to people how to live their lives? If you want to refute my views do it nicely, if you can't do that, well you are a angry moron.

Never come into a political thread thinking that you will see anything different. Angry morons are a dime a dozen right now. But they entertain me. Dance puppets, dance.

Dems represent liberals like Republicans represent conservatives. Conservatives do not run up 800 trillion dollar tabs and run out without paying. Angry morons run the country. But they entertain me.

2005-07-26 11:02:02 AM Mr_Fabulous

It's probably unfair, but parties that have done well are the ones people identify with some version of traditional values.

Some farkers who are far to the left think that: (my opinion, and not intended to be the positions of all Democrats)

1.) Traditional groups like the boy scouts are anachronistic and run by pedophiles, worthy of ridicule. Concepts like communal male bonding to teach young men a sense of worth and value have no place in modern American culture.

2.) All Christians belong to an exclusive cult that is dedicated to taking away everyone's freedoms and turning back the clock to the 1950's.

3.) The biggest problem America has right now is how to make sure every group gets fair treatment, using their respective definitions of what is "fair".

4.) Conservatives are all closet racists who wish to deny a helping hand to poor minorities. There is no way to achieve justice for minority groups without giving them permanent assistance. This is because minorities have different and unique issues that will never be resolved. In fact, 100 years from now they will still have the same issues they have today, because they are fundamentally different from white people and have a tough time assimilating.

5.) Abortion should not be regulated in any way because it is the lynchpin of equal rights for women. if you support abortion that must include every form of abortion, e.g. partial birth. Anything less is a betrayal of womankind.


The media has no clue as to how large segments of the public reacted to the Kerry/Bush debates. the parts they ignored were the parts that made the difference. When Kerry bungled his answer to the question about partial birth abortions, i was pretty sure he lost whatever chance he had with at least 1/4 of the American public. And the media commentators didn't even notice that moment. I could be wrong about that, but it was dramatic, IMO



2005-07-26 10:53:18 AM barjockey
...moderates are the wusses of America who sit on the sidelines ready to sway whatever way the wind blows, and quick to point the finger at those who actually have convictions about certain issues. Moderate...HA! Spineless, clueless, and mindless of what is really going on. Moderate is a misused term that means "I smoke too much dope to know what is really going on, so pass the Doritos, man".

This is the wrongest post you have ever posted, and that is a bold, bold statement. We centrists will be the only salvation of this country when you farking childish extremists are done having your collective fingerpointing, hair-pulling spaz-attack.

In the meantime, go get a real farking job, junior.

Toker-Ace

Damn that was funny and creepy at the same time. Very nice job.

Mr_Fabulous

Sounds like I struck a nerve there pal. Tell me where I'm wrong. I haven't personally interviewed every so-called moderate in America, so tell me how you differ from the overwhelming majority of your constituents. The way that they present themselves in the media are bench-warmers who jump up and get in the game when the odds are in their favor and sit out and post blame when they are not.

tarrant84 [TotalFark]

firefly212: I'm for an end to eminent domain ammendment

That was passed thanks to the liberal justices on the Supreme Court, voted against by Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas, and O'Conner.

It's not consistent with liberal (more personal liberty, free market) ideology. It was a bad ruling designed to f*ck holdouts. Anyways, I don't see why conservatives (less government interference) or liberals (more personal liberties) can't get their sh^t together and get an ammendment out for ratification. For all the biatching on both sides, nobody seems to care enough to actually do anything about it.

If Kerry had won i think i would have just moved to some island somewhere to get away from this country.

Flamewars make puppies sad.

libtards are so paranoid of christians that they are ready to feed them to the lions


but, in their eyes, islam is still a religion of peace



what tards

Damn. Late to the thread. BTW, the concept that Clinton did everything based upon polls is a complete myth. Read Politicians Don't Pander by Jacobs and Shaprio if you want some insight.

"2005-07-26 10:26:12 AM tarrant84


Let me also add that Hillary Clinton voted for:

- Giving the President to use force in Iraq, saying:

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

- Voted for the Patriot Act

- Voted for No Child Left Behind

- Voted for Iraq budget

- Called for a Congressional Inquiry into Grand Theft Auto

And now suddenly she's opposed to everything she voted for. Which is why she doesn't get my vote."

And she STILL is a million times better than Brownback or Allen (the two most likely Republican 2008 presidential nominees at this point-it ain't going to be McCain, folks).

That being said, there is no way in hell I'm going to vote for her in the primary. I'm liking Feingold (who I should note voted against everything you listed (not sure what you mean by the Iraq budget-if you mean the "$87 billion", he did vote for that, since we have troops over there, you can't shortchange them-but he voted against the war in the first place), including the Patriot Act (only senator to vote no on that)) or Clark (or maybe Schweitzer, if he's interested in running, which is unlikely at this point). I'm not sure if I will vote for her in the general, either-but I live in California, so I have the freedom to vote for the Libertarian (like I did in 2000), since my vote is worthless anyways. If I lived in Florida or Ohio, I might have to grit my teeth and vote for her.

jeffcor13

Man, pics like that are the reason I Fark. Thanks for the tears, my face was dirty anyway.

As for this intellectual thread, I simply must elucidate you all:

Libtard Democoonts are all like, "Boo hoo. We want free gay abortions with our welfare dope. Let's surrender like France. Waaah!"

Neocon Repuglicans are all like, "Duuuh, let's go shoot minorities at the NASCAR race with our Desert Storm memorial Jesus guns while drunk."

Some things never change.

Fark was born out of zingers and one liners (and humor).

I learned a long time ago that politics science, since the age of 13 second blurbs on the nightly news, is also a science of zingers and one liners (and humor).

Thus, Fark and PoliSci work together on an oh-so-gushy-gushy level.

What does this mean for Democrats and Republicans? It means getting you entire platform into a easy-to-swallow pill form or the general masses will never be able to digest it.

Republicans seem to be doing a better job of this any anyone.

firefly212: It's not consistent with liberal (more personal liberty, free market) ideology.

That's not the current liberal idealogy. I'm not trying to demonize liberals (or conservatives or anyone for that matter), but they're for more government regulation-- especially on the free market.

I mean, liberals want to force companies to raise the minimum wage, enact fair trade laws, keep in place discrimination laws, none of which is consistent with a free market idealology.

Weisenheimer

Why would we quote you when it was Samuel Clemens who said it?

You fail to distinguish between communism/capitalism, which is an economic system, and democratic/facsist system, which is a form of government.

With no due respect, what a load of typical leftist double-think bullshiat. This new leftist meme of trying to whitewash the complete and utter social, economic, and environmental failures of all planned centralized governments (ie. communism, fascism, socialism), by trying, ex post facto, to claim that it didn't fail because it " isn't a governmental system" is an insult to the intelligence of normal thinking people.

Geotpf: I might have to grit my teeth and vote for her.

Why not just vote third party?

Gee what a surprise... ultra-conservative, pro-republican Fox news bashing democrats.

Dump both parties. Vote Libertarian. Lets dump all these idiots out.

Animatronik

I'm personally against abortion. I'm against Roe vs Wade. It is not because of my personal belief but because the supreme court should not be making laws, so that ruling must be struck down. There is no constituional basis for that ruling. If you want abortion rights after that, ask your legislators to make the laws.

If you are too irreponsible to have unprotected sex, you should use that morning after pill, best alternative to abortion.

Submitter has a good point.
Take Granholm (Democratic Governor or Michigan), once the supreme court said you could put the the ten commandments on government ground, she was out hunting places to put them. She has an office of faith based initiatives.
Take Hillary Clinton, constant shifting position on Abortion.
Maybe the Republicans have a point about flip-flopping.
My question is who is representing a secular, pro-choice voter? Certainly not the Republicans. I am starting to wonder about the Democrats.

danzak: Ontario now has a health tax as well,

On the bright side, it's creating better jobs than we're getting. The US was offering incentives to get a new Toyota plant but between how dumb southerners are* and how expensive running the plant here would be, they decided to locate somewhere else. Canada.

Toyota, Moving Northward

Canada's other big selling point is its national health insurance system, which saves auto manufacturers large sums in benefit payments compared with their costs in the United States.


* What made Toyota so sensitive to labor quality issues? Maybe we should discount remarks from the president of the Toronto-based Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association, who claimed that the educational level in the Southern United States was so low that trainers for Japanese plants in Alabama had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech equipment.

thekarmikbob: Dump both parties. Vote Libertarian. Lets dump all these idiots out.

It's the Scientology of Political Parties!

/ducks

thekarmikbob:

Gee what a surprise... ultra-conservative, pro-republican Fox news bashing democrats.

"We've got to be for something, and it is pretty clear that America is waiting for us. They are desperate to know what we are for," Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack told those attending the group's conference on Monday. "It worked in 1992 for Bill Clinton, who was chairman of the DLC before he ran for president. It worked in 1996 for Bill Clinton."

Isn't he a Democrat?

How to Fix the Democrat Party

In no particular order...

1. Fire Howard Dean - all a Republican has to do is point toward Howard Dean and they get attention and money. Whatever Dean is raising for you, he causes the Republicans to to raise twice that much.

2. Remove senior Liberal Democrats from positions of power. Similar to Dean, all a Republican has to do is point to the stupid remarks of Ted "I thought she could swim" Kennedy, Nancy Polosi, Sheila Jackson Lee, or a host of other Liberal Democrats and they get attention and money. While such Left-wingers may be entitled to an opinion, forcing more moderate Democrats to step around their comments like they are navigating around a steaming pile of shiat in a cow pasture is making the job of getting the Democrat message out harder, not easier.

3. Take a cue from the Republican tactics book. When it appeared that Bill Clinton was actually willing to work with Republicans on some issues in his second term, they actually worked with him. Being obstructionist because you claim you are standing on "principle" is silly and makes it look like you are putting yourself over the best interest of the country--particularly when it's clear that you are no more standing on principle than you are standing on your head.

4. Stop using the words 'extreme', 'Nazi', 'Facist', 'power grab', and comparing Bush to Hitler, or any member of Bush's cabinet with any member of Hitler's inner circle. Every time you do, rational people shut off their ears and stop listening to you, because they know better than to think that Republicans want to establish a dictatorship on the line of the old National Socialist Party of 1930s Germany.

5. We are in Iraq...we are not getting out of Iraq any time soon, get over it. We still haven't even left Afghanistan yet. Rather than searching out prisoner abuses or screaming "quagmire!" at every opportunity, seek out strategies that will help shorten the conflict that don't involve a 1973 style Vietnam pull out. Millions died in the region because it became fashionable to protest a war started by a Democrat president. Millions more would die if we pull out of Iraq too quickly. Unlike Vietnam, we can wrap this up with minimal casualities to ourselves and maximum casualities to the bad guys if we do this the right way.

6. It is not paradoxical to have an option about whether or not America should be fighting a war in any foreign country while at the same time being unable/unwilling to go serve in the military fighting said war in said country. It's called a *volunteer* military. Should a draft be initiated, saying we should fight while being unwilling to fight would be paradoxical...as are the opinions of people who cry "freedom" but mock those who defend it. Democrats, please figure all this out, you are losing votes over the issue as I type this.

7. It is paradoxical to complain bitterly about civil rights issues when at the same time you are complaining that we aren't spending enough on homeland defense. You might not see it, most voters do. Figure out your damn message.

8. If you think that Rush Limbaugh is popular because the American populace are a bunch of ignorant savages, and that all that is needed is for you to put Al Franken on more talk radio stations and educate them, you are truely not only getting the point, you don't know the question. Put down the New York Times and get out of the city more.

9. The American people want someone who will keep their taxes as low as possible, their schools open and teaching their kids the basics they'll need later in life, affordable transporation to get along with their busy lives, a chance that their hard work will allow them to be successful and comfortable (FYI: they don't envy the rich nearly as much as you think), and the security of knowing that they can do all that without some foreign asshole blowing them up. They can take care of the rest if you let them.

10. The words "duck hunting" does not appear in the Bill of Rights, nor anywhere else in the Constitution. The right to bear arms is however clearly defined, even if you think that the rationale for allowing it as stated in the 2nd amendment is archaic in the era of modern, mechanized push button militaries. On the other hand, police forces around the U.S. usually arrive at the site of a violent crime just in time to start a crime scene investigation. Gun control is a losing issue that feeds millions of dollars into Republican coffers. Buy a clue. Drop it.

--h

The last line of my post is not directed at you, I'm saying that in general.

Republicans Pill: Turrurist are bad, and are everywhere.

Democrats Pill: Republicans are bad, and are everywhere.

To be a successful politician, it is always best to focus on the outside threat, not the inside threat (I am looking at your Mr. McCarthy).

You just earned yourself a cold beer.

"2005-07-26 11:05:37 AM whack_dude

When I say low taxes, I mean when I'm done payin all the taxes from my income(SS,Fed,state), I should be able to have 75% of my original income."

How much do you make a year?

kevin5lynn:

Oh come on! Funny? how can Clinton sex jokes be remotely funny at this point in time?

BJB jokes are *always* funny.

The republicans on this thread act like the only Democrats they ever knew were smelly college kids who don't know about real life. And I'm sure that is very good for their tiny worldview. Partial truths fit in with the FoxNews lifestyle. It gives you the feeling of rightousness without any of that troublesome moralizing or rationalization. Get out more- go to the left coast, meet some people who are the core democrats. See how they live, and their decision making processes. Then come back to fark. Of course you won't, can't or are convinced of the might of the right.

I was one of those stupid college kids. Then I spent two years in middle america, watching their decision making. They genuinely care about many things. Its scary that they watch foxnews because it is easy. Because their friends talk about it at work. Because they want to belong. For all of the idealist talk that gets bandied about the red states, its about fitting in. It really made me think. I came out more moderate, but still a democrat. And converted a few while I was in Utah, Idaho, and Kansas. Its easy when they trust you, when you have put a track record down of correct statements that can be backed up with logic and reason that they understand. They are used to limited knowledge intake, and become horrified when certain subjects are explained to them. Genetic research, Iraq, Corporate News, the Enviroment. And gun control. When you can handle a rifle, shoot better than them, and espouse the virtues of gun control, they listen. Its not about winning arguments on fark. Its about convincing the lotus eaters in our midst about the half they get, and the half that they are missing.

/Values voters- heh
/you keep telling yourself that.

I'm also on the Feingold 2008 band wagon. Trust me, he's the closest we're likely to get to a "Mr. Smith" in the White House.