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(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)   Lt. gov trolls marine's funeral for anti-war support   (post-gazette.com) divider line 390
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12237 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jul 2005 at 11:20 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-25 02:22:53 AM
mr lawson:

Sooooooooo what is your take on democracy and capitalism. Tell us how ya really feel.
Do you think it should be spread to all citizens of this planet? You know a basic right for all people to be able to choose who represents them in government? And that they should be free to exchange in open commerce for their own benfit?

/seriously wanting to know what you think



Read my profile, not just the first scentence.

As for "spreading democracy", yeah, but never by force. Its is up to the local people themselves to demand and fight for democracy. If we in the west try and force it on them, they will doubt our sincerity, rightly so.
 
2005-07-25 02:24:19 AM
phoxxy: /Woo! Cybar Sexoring!


Here's to a virtual violation of Art.125, UCMJ!
(ask him, he should know)

Hope you're together again soon.
 
2005-07-25 02:24:26 AM
he is either dead or really on the run....i lean more toward dead since they said they had an "excellent idea" where he was.
/cynic on that part
 
2005-07-25 02:25:27 AM
Has anyone noticed that her hair looks alot like Conan O'Brien???
 
2005-07-25 02:27:26 AM
B82

Neocon PLEASE!

Presenting Newsmax vomit as if it's a credible source?

The so-called "Disgraced" President Clinton had an approval rating of 72% on the day after his sham impeachment.

Murder Monkey's is currently in the low 40's with a lot more dropping (and frog marching) to go.

Hey GoblinKing May the streets SOON run black...yada, yada! HA HA!
 
2005-07-25 02:27:49 AM
No man:

Whose Muslim troops did you have in mind? Iran's? Saudi Arabia's? Indonesia's?

Not so much Iran or Saudi, but Indonesia along with Malaysia, Turkey and maybe even Pakistan, under rotating world command would be a good idea.

I kind of agree, but that solution's expiration date is long past.

Why?

That's a very weird sensibility, which I'm not quite sure how to respond to. It sounds like you have an affinity for American customs, values, and history, and therefore consider yourself sort of quasi-American. The phrase, "there's the pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind.

Ok, save this one: I am a complete hypocrite for having a go at the US when Australia does some of the exact same things.*

*Fark is the only place I know of where I can discuss issues like these with people like these, if there was an AusFark, I would be there attacking Australian conservatives.
 
2005-07-25 02:29:16 AM
ArmyCop: You politicizing their deaths is no less heinous than some random politician.


You not questioning if their deaths were worthwhile makes you a horrible friend.
 
2005-07-25 02:29:27 AM
TheGoblinKing

Noted.

Hyernel

One last tidbit for you to stew over- I used to put people in Abu Ghraib prison.
 
2005-07-25 02:33:01 AM
ArmyCop:

phoxxy: /Woo! Cybar Sexoring!

Here's to a virtual violation of Art.125, UCMJ!
(ask him, he should know)

Hope you're together again soon.


LOL. He'll be using his fingers. Maybe they might be able to nab him if he were talking dirty to me over the phone... (Get it... oral sex... sodomy).

Article 125 deals with unconsentual sex and sodomy. :)

Hubby says you need and updated FM. :P
 
2005-07-25 02:34:07 AM
May the streets SOON run black...

ooo ooo lemme finish...

WITH REPUBLICAN BLOOD!!!

ahhh, that was sweet...
 
2005-07-25 02:37:30 AM
consdubya

Ok..read the whole thing....i take exception with corporation taxes (a 15% flat on gross profit is good with me) not too keen of having a world body yet...not until all members have democracies in their own countries in place first. Healthcare...basic...yes...anything above and beyond that...no. It will help weed out people. you forgot abortion (yes). people, taken as a whole are not that special. A particular person may mean something to you personaly, but as a species we are very good at reproducing. Death penality, yes. term limts...yes (to include upper-managment buracracies.)

oh...btw...sometimes people of other countries that are currently living under a government that is not democracies need outside help. GB1 failed miserably on this account (the uprising after Gulf war 1). Most people of Iraq like democracy, but they are still afraid of the remenants of Saddam. I hope they get over it quicker. Time will tell.
 
2005-07-25 02:38:37 AM
ArmyCop I just couldn't help myself.....

 
2005-07-25 02:39:53 AM
phoxxy

They updated that one? Last I read, the sodomy rules were some of the most draconian imaginable, and didn't matter if it was consensual or not.
If they updated the language to exclude consensual acts, it would be a good day.

"...any penetration, however slight..."

/off to bother the admin geeks for a new TM..
 
2005-07-25 02:42:22 AM
TheGoblinKing: ...do we have a new cliche?

It would have many uses.....
 
2005-07-25 02:43:55 AM
ArmyCop

Bullets flying past your head? Yeah sure. From what "personality" you've demonstrated tonight, it was probably friendly fire!!

I'm not politicizing anyones death's you moran. At least, not as much as some of the families are! I'm transforming their meaningless deaths into meaningful ones by converting outrage into the destruction of Bushco and the Neocon Menace.

And don't listen to GoblinKing he's just mad because I spanked him, embarrassingly, and filled his vagina with gritty, gritty sand! HA HA!
 
2005-07-25 02:44:00 AM
mr lawson: Ok..read the whole thing...


See, im not as crazy as you thought i was.....

I agree with most of what you said there, including that membership of the world body is only open to democracies. Thats a good one...... seriously.

Where I still dont agree with you is that the people of Iraq are ready for democracy. I base this opinion on the current situation there, they vote along ethnic and religious lines, and no good can come of that. Also, the prospect of civil war there again shows that they are not really ready for democracy. I dont think democracy there is not moving ahead because of fear of saddams remnants, it is because there are too many little aggressive groups who want to control everything, and only ensure carnage.
 
2005-07-25 02:46:38 AM
I used to put people in Abu Ghraib prison.

Thanks for the book idea.

"Bragging Rights for the Marginal and Underachieving" - coming to a Borders near you.
 
2005-07-25 02:48:53 AM
ArmyCop:

phoxxy

They updated that one? Last I read, the sodomy rules were some of the most draconian imaginable, and didn't matter if it was consensual or not.
If they updated the language to exclude consensual acts, it would be a good day.

"...any penetration, however slight..."

/off to bother the admin geeks for a new TM..


Well Article 125 deals with sodomy (unnatural copulation - i.e. anal and oral sex). Article 120 deals with rape, sex under the age of 16 and having sex with someone other than your spouse.
 
2005-07-25 02:49:32 AM
consdubya

If there is a fault with GBW is that he is an idealist...He belives they are ready...I do as well....but time will tell.

/not quite the "neocon" you thought i was either, 'eh:-)
 
2005-07-25 02:50:07 AM
2005-07-25 02:46:38 AM whoflungpoop

Fark off, nitwit. ArmyCop has already done more worthwhile things with his life than you could probably accomplish in a dozen lifetimes.
 
2005-07-25 02:52:42 AM
consdubya:

No man:

Whose Muslim troops did you have in mind? Iran's? Saudi Arabia's? Indonesia's?

Not so much Iran or Saudi, but Indonesia along with Malaysia, Turkey and maybe even Pakistan, under rotating world command would be a good idea.


I'm sure the Kurds in Northern Iraq would just love to be helped out by Turkish UN troops. That, quite frankly, is a terrible idea.

Pakistan? What the heck interest does Pakistan have in Iraq, and why would they send their troops there, when they're trying to protect various Kashmir borders?

I could go on a bit, but you seem to think that the UN can just order the world's armies all over the place. It ain't gonna happen.

I kind of agree, but that solution's expiration date is long past.

Why?


Because Bush blew one of the greatest opportunities an American President could ever have. After 9/11, NATO basically rang up the White House, and said they would do whatever they were told. The Bushies said something like, "Don't call us, we'll call you."

That's a very weird sensibility, which I'm not quite sure how to respond to. It sounds like you have an affinity for American customs, values, and history, and therefore consider yourself sort of quasi-American. The phrase, "there's the pot calling the kettle black" comes to mind.

Ok, save this one: I am a complete hypocrite for having a go at the US when Australia does some of the exact same things.*


Fair enough, but you come across as a bit radical and provocative. Nothing really wrong with that, but it ticks people off to argue with someone who is just arguing for the sake of the arguement.

*Fark is the only place I know of where I can discuss issues like these with people like these, if there was an AusFark, I would be there attacking Australian conservatives.

That's kind of sad. And I'm not sure that Australian conservatism is really all that similar to American conservatism.
 
2005-07-25 02:53:57 AM
Doc Daneeka How would you feel if you were at a funeral mourning the passing of a family member, and some politician came and tried to exploit the tragedy to advance some political cause?

consdubya Depends, if the person was asked who they were and it turned out to be an uninvited politician, and the politician gave me their card, and muttered "its a tradegy that your son died in this war that so many oppose", I would have no problem with that. If the politician said that my son died "protecting freedom", I would give him a scornful look and ask him for an audience to discuss that assertion at a later date.

So it's okay to crash a funeral with politics as long as you agree with the politics?
 
2005-07-25 02:56:51 AM
Hyernel

From the FArQ:Personal attacks made by anyone including name calling, threats, and any other form of directed attacks against other users will result in suspension of posting.

Look, I'm letting this slide, and not sending a Farkback to call for your bannination. Take that for what it's worth.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
 
2005-07-25 02:58:20 AM
ArmyCop

Some of these troops were my friends...

Interesting. So now that you understand that they died for Bush's lies, you're pissed off at:
a.) The despicable bastards who lied these guys into harms way, or
b.) The Farker who informed you that they died for nothing


You're assignment for tonight: Get a dictionary and look up the word "Truth" and then look up the word "Integrity." If that's not enough, close the dictionary and bash yourself, repeatedly and with vigor, about the head.

And you put people in Abu Graib?

Maybe you'll show up in the next round of pictures and videos. Maybe even we can all watch you kill some prisoners. Let's hope you never get captured by the enemy. If I were them, I'd want some payback on your Geneva Convention violating ass.

/Cool....blockquote tag works!
 
2005-07-25 03:07:20 AM
phoxxy

No explanation needed. I wouldn't have referenced the article if I wasn't familiar with it. Being an MP, that's just setting myself up for failure.

From your earlier post, it sounded like you had heard of the language being changed. Seeing it was either written in the paleolithic era, or the author never got his bits properly fondled, some new interpretation would make thing easier(and more enjoyable) for all.
 
2005-07-25 03:08:23 AM
You wouldn't be the first, ArmyCop

The first reaction of a coward threatened by the truth is to try and silence the source of that truth.

...just ask Karl Rove!! He's built a career on precisely that!

/It's weird though...I've been called every name in the book here (over the years), but I've never complained to the mods to try to get anyone banned...nor have I ever pulled out the FArQ rules to try to shut people up. I guess I'm secure enough.
 
2005-07-25 03:10:57 AM
Holy Koresh! It's 3 am!!!

Sleepytime.
 
2005-07-25 03:15:08 AM
If you are against the war you should quit your job and devote every free minute you have to protesting. Come on. 8 hours a day. Think of how many politicians you can write in that time.
 
2005-07-25 03:29:05 AM
ArmyCop:

phoxxy

No explanation needed. I wouldn't have referenced the article if I wasn't familiar with it. Being an MP, that's just setting myself up for failure.

From your earlier post, it sounded like you had heard of the language being changed. Seeing it was either written in the paleolithic era, or the author never got his bits properly fondled, some new interpretation would make thing easier(and more enjoyable) for all.


With retention and morale at the all time lows that you are, you honeslty think it is wise if the military denies a soldier a 3 am cyber booty call with his wife? :)
 
2005-07-25 03:38:54 AM
phoxxy

Thereare those who are more concerned with the letter of the law, than the spirit.

I am not one of these, but they do exist. Those are the ones you have to watch out for.



Have fun, but watch out for that weaselly kid in HQ that nobody likes. It's usually that guy. :)
 
2005-07-25 03:40:17 AM
Hyernel: Holy Koresh! It's 3 am!!!

Sleepytime.


Thank goodness.

/charming Koresh reference
 
2005-07-25 03:40:43 AM
No man:

I'm sure the Kurds in Northern Iraq would just love to be helped out by Turkish UN troops. That, quite frankly, is a terrible idea.

Send the Turkish troops to the Shia south. They are controlled by an international command. Problem solved.

Pakistan? What the heck interest does Pakistan have in Iraq, and why would they send their troops there, when they're trying to protect various Kashmir borders?

What the heck interest does the US have in Iraq? But anyway, Pakistan could easily be pursuaded to commit troops for other incentives.

I could go on a bit, but you seem to think that the UN can just order the world's armies all over the place. It ain't gonna happen.

Well, not with that attitude. Its definately worth trying for, but the first and biggest obstacle to that is the Bush admin's refusal to do anything about it and to eat some humble pie and admit mistakes made.

Because Bush blew one of the greatest opportunities an American President could ever have. After 9/11, NATO basically rang up the White House, and said they would do whatever they were told. The Bushies said something like, "Don't call us, we'll call you."

There is still time, if Bush ate some humble pie, admitted mistakes, and asked nicely, the UN would still become invovled now.

Fair enough, but you come across as a bit radical and provocative. Nothing really wrong with that, but it ticks people off to argue with someone who is just arguing for the sake of the arguement.

I enjoy argument, or as I like to call it: heated discussion. I do believe what I argue, so it is not really argument for arguments sake.

That's kind of sad. And I'm not sure that Australian conservatism is really all that similar to American conservatism.

Australian Conservatism is very very similar to US conservatism at the moment. Not quite as extreme yet, but the basics are the same.
 
2005-07-25 03:43:47 AM
helix400: So it's okay to crash a funeral with politics as long as you agree with the politics?


Nope, its ok to "crash" a funeral, make a comment, as long as you are willing to back it up at a later date.

But whatever, yes, the lady was a bad person for showing up. Still, this is no big deal.
 
2005-07-25 03:45:43 AM
mr lawson:

If there is a fault with GBW is that he is an idealist...He belives they are ready...I do as well....but time will tell.

/not quite the "neocon" you thought i was either, 'eh:-)



I am still not sure if the neo-cons believe their own bullshiat, but if they do, that would make you a neo-con, as you agree with their idealism....
 
2005-07-25 03:49:55 AM
ArmyCop:

phoxxy

Thereare those who are more concerned with the letter of the law, than the spirit.

I am not one of these, but they do exist. Those are the ones you have to watch out for.

Have fun, but watch out for that weaselly kid in HQ that nobody likes. It's usually that guy. :)


Heh. A hummer did save his life earlier last week. :) Heavily armored one that is. :)

I bought that shirt for my husband and planned on giving it to him when he got home. He'd catch hell wearing it over there.
 
2005-07-25 03:54:55 AM
consdubya
I am still not sure if the neo-cons believe their own bullshiat, but if they do, that would make you a neo-con, as you agree with their idealism....

If beliving that all humans, if given a choice, would rather have a democracy (even with it's inherent flaws) as opposed to all other forms of government, then yeah...I accept whatever lable you give that. I would hate to think mankind would prefer any other type because I can't think of any good reason why any of the others is better with one exception. That being those who would choose another form expect to be the ones in power.
 
2005-07-25 03:57:59 AM
consdubya:

Send the Turkish troops to the Shia south. They are controlled by an international command. Problem solved.

The Kurd thing doesn't have much to do with religion. It has to do with the Turkish government practicing near genocide on the Kurds. The Kurds hate the Turks. You solve international/historical problems readily and rapidly. I wonder why no one else has done so?

What the heck interest does the US have in Iraq? But anyway, Pakistan could easily be pursuaded to commit troops for other incentives.

Well, we have oil interests, but you already know that. And, Colin Powell did provide incentives to Pakistan so that we could invade Afghanistan. How much are you willing to give them?

There is still time, if Bush ate some humble pie, admitted mistakes, and asked nicely, the UN would still become invovled now.

I seriously doubt it, at least not with Bush as the spokesperson. There is an incredible credibility problem. For example, if Bush personally asked me to get involved, I would refuse.

I enjoy argument, or as I like to call it: heated discussion. I do believe what I argue, so it is not really argument for arguments sake.

In my experience, no one person's arguments are infallible. So, if you argue or discuss issues to discern the truth, then you will need to make compromises, and redefine your arguments, based on what you have learned from another person. If you do that, then Socrates has won. If you don't do that, then you are simply arguing for argument's sake.

Australian Conservatism is very very similar to US conservatism at the moment. Not quite as extreme yet, but the basics are the same.

That's because Rupert Murdoch is an evil man.
 
2005-07-25 04:00:51 AM
This issue has nothing to do with the death of someone in combat, nothing to do with the Military, nothing to do with whether the current war is 'popular', supported, or even "Right".

It is the story of the death of someone well-loved by his Family. It is the story of that family's mourning service intruded upon by someone without class, conscience or remorse...

Imagine if your Sister died in a back alley abortion charnel-house, and at her funeral a right wing religious douchebag walked up to you, and after offering his 'business card' and fake condolences, said to you: "We're against abortion too."

How would you feel?

...

For fark's sake! The issue is not about politics! It's about timing and context.

Being a red blooded Male, I am never as violent and unpredictable as when I am sad...Anyone who crashes a Funeral I'm at just to create a scene should consider themselves lucky to escape with their life, politics (ALL Politics) be damned.
 
2005-07-25 04:02:58 AM
Ok, there was a 0% chance of Pakistan stationing troops anywhere in the Middle East, let alone Iraq. No amount of summits or 'Clintonian diplomacy' were going to do that. This is like that talk of a pan-african force going into Sudan.
 
2005-07-25 04:04:58 AM
na na nah nahh, na na nah nahh, hey hey hey, good bye:
)catherine baker knoll(
 
2005-07-25 04:21:43 AM
I hold the unfortunate and unpopular position of being FOR the war, but AGAINST our troops.

/Obscure?
 
2005-07-25 04:24:12 AM
mr lawson:

I would hate to think mankind would prefer any other type because I can't think of any good reason why any of the others is better with one exception. That being those who would choose another form expect to be the ones in power.

Nice one, well said. I agree with you here, but I still believe that there are people who dont know that they really want democracy, as they are being mislead by those who hope to have the power at the end.

Religion, propaganda, and the general apathy of most people dosent allow for democracy in some places. I reckon they need to figure it out for themselves.

Anyhoo, thanks for the chat, even after our initial personal attacks :)
 
2005-07-25 04:29:49 AM
No man:

The Kurd thing doesn't have much to do with religion. It has to do with the Turkish government practicing near genocide on the Kurds. The Kurds hate the Turks. You solve international/historical problems readily and rapidly. I wonder why no one else has done so?

Yeah, but still, send them to the south where the people dont have beef with them. Dont let them drift north, cause yeah, it wouldnt be pretty.

Well, we have oil interests, but you already know that. And, Colin Powell did provide incentives to Pakistan so that we could invade Afghanistan. How much are you willing to give them?

Whatever is reasonable. A trade deal, humanitarian aid....

I seriously doubt it, at least not with Bush as the spokesperson. There is an incredible credibility problem. For example, if Bush personally asked me to get involved, I would refuse.

Fair call, but that is why Bush should have been gotten rid of in 2004. Mind you, the fact that he is still there is largely due to the Democrats being completely useless and not offering a real alternative. The world is still willing to help, just not if the US dictates the terms unilaterally.

In my experience, no one person's arguments are infallible. So, if you argue or discuss issues to discern the truth, then you will need to make compromises, and redefine your arguments, based on what you have learned from another person. If you do that, then Socrates has won. If you don't do that, then you are simply arguing for argument's sake.

Well, as you can see with myself and Mr Lawson and even yourself, I am open to debate and compromising and learning. I do enjoy flaming people as well though, but if someone seriously wants to discuss something, and I have the time, I always do it.

That's because Rupert Murdoch is an evil man.

You dont know just how true that is.....

Anyhoo, thanks for the chat :)
 
2005-07-25 04:31:26 AM
TheDepotDespot I hold the unfortunate and unpopular position of being FOR the war, but AGAINST our troops.

John! John Kerry! Is that You!??
 
2005-07-25 04:36:20 AM
consdubya its ok to "crash" a funeral, make a comment, as long as you are willing to back it up at a later date.

You need to learn some basic manners and rules of respect. You just don't crash funerals, and it's not ok to do so.
 
2005-07-25 04:39:28 AM
Poo_Fight

John! John Kerry! Is that You!??

LOL! Good one.

Naw a stand-up comic I think said that during gulf-one. He was making fun of everyone taking the convenient position of being against the war but supporting the troops. Actually it's so obscure even I can't remember who said it. :)
 
2005-07-25 04:49:59 AM
helix400:

You need to learn some basic manners and rules of respect. You just don't crash funerals, and it's not ok to do so.

If there was a funeral notice in the newspaper, which is common, everyone who cared about the person was invited.

You need to learn some basic logic and common sense.
 
2005-07-25 04:53:35 AM
Gee, I read the whole article, only to find no mention of party affiliation. of course, this lead me to believe that this "person" was a democrat. yet another example of the institutional bias in favor of the demos,and yet another example of why most real Americans loathe them with a passion.
 
2005-07-25 05:02:07 AM
TheDepotDespot

Not obscure at all, I'm afraid. That's the late Bill Hicks, who is considered a minor deity by some around here.
 
2005-07-25 05:16:13 AM
consdubya If there was a funeral notice in the newspaper, which is common, everyone who cared about the person was invited. You need to learn some basic logic and common sense.

Logically, a funeral invite says "This is an invite, anyone can come."

Common courtesy says "This is a funeral, you probably shouldn't go unless you knew the person, and you definitely shouldn't go for your own selfish, political reasons."

Being knowledgable and logical helps. But it is far better to be wise.

For example, if your wife was too overweight, you would say "Honey, you are fat enough to be called obese"? Logically, you would be 100% correct. But it would be a completely stupid thing to say.

The situation at the funeral is no different. They are both logically ok, but they are also completely and utterly stupid and devoid of maturity.
 
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