FARK.com: (1583619) "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" discussion thread (spoilers allowed)

If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)		"Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" discussion thread (spoilers allowed) (theglobeandmail.com)		372
		More: Misc

• • •

6400 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2005 at 6:41 PM | Favorite | share:

Share this link:

URL:

http://fark.com/go/1583619

Bookmark:

Article Comments close

372 Comments (+0 »)

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

B Not		2005-07-20 10:03:18 PM

For completeness art_shamsky,
1. Not so much
2. Nope
3. There is no new teacher for DADA
4. Not much bad happens for most of the book
5. No Voldemort
6. The bid D says you can't count on that being true
7. Nope - or anywhere else
8. No magical dohickey and things are not resolved
9. Things get grim - just a hint of unrelated optimism
10. Doesn't - but will/but won't be

xjbullx		2005-07-20 10:06:32 PM

R.A.B - Remulus Black. That's my guess.

mchawi		2005-07-20 10:07:53 PM

My personal theory is that Dumbledore is dead - in the same way that Voldemort was dead. Voldemort used a horcrux to come back from death, because only part of his soul couldn't pass over or whatever it is.

Dumbledore talks about the horcrux curse and then goes on, and on, and on about how love is as powerful and can do everything that the dark magic Voldemort uses can do. So V can make a horcrux by killing someone - but Dumbledore could theoretically make one in another way. This way V. thinks he is really dead, not that I'm sure I see the benefit.

Maybe Snape will be the last horcrux and we can see him get smacked around a little. That could be an alternative theory, that D.'s death is to make Harry made enough and Snape evil enough to kill him off if he does happen to be the last one.

All in all - not the best of the series, but probably the most changes - and seven could be interesting.

Dimensio		2005-07-20 10:08:35 PM

Whatever happens, I hope that Snape dies in the next book. Not because I dislike the character, but because it will allow someone else to shout, "Snape, what's going on? Snape? SNAAAAAAAAAAPE!!"

Okay, yeah, it's a bad joke but I had to use it somewhere.

Baron-Harkonnen		2005-07-20 10:12:10 PM

Iscariot

The book didn't come from James Potter's generation. It belonged to Snape's mother, whose surname was Prince. It was passed down to him, so Snape was the Half-Blood Prince.

ironbubba		2005-07-20 10:16:03 PM

Ok..

Harry cant be a Horcruxe.. reason being that a Horcruxe is an inanimate object that your store a piece of your soul in. Refer back to the part where Harry and Dumbledore are talking and Harry brings this up and Dumbledore refers to Portkeys. If Harry was a Horcruxe then Voldemort would have possessed him by now, like he tried to do with Ginny.

I think that when it does come down to a final battle between Voldemort and Harry that Harry wont kill Voldemort by means of any curse or hex.. it'll be love. Dumbledore drives that into Harry repeatedly. Love is what triumph in the end. Harry will take the higher road and Voldemort will bring about his own end..

Dumbledore is dead, Snape has yet to show his true colors. If he were truly evil.. he would have killed Harry outside of Hogwarts the night Dumbledore died. Snape is struggling with himself..

Dumbledores death is a way to motivate Harry, to make him carry on and possibly... give him more power. Dumbledore died for Harry out of love, Sirius died for Harry.. and so did Harry's parents.. theres a theme here.

quizzoid		2005-07-20 10:18:05 PM

Blues_X: don't EVER try to read that goddamn Robert Jordan series.

The Wheel of Time series? The first five books were pretty good, and then it started going downhill. And it's been a long, painful slide, 'cause he's up to book ten.

For a good laugh, read the Amazon customer reviews for "Crossroads of Twilight", which is book ten in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

The only thing funnier on Amazon is some of the reviews for the Family Circus books.

/yeah, yeah.... off-topic
//he started it

Shirley Ujest		2005-07-20 10:22:39 PM

My Petronus would be a bunny.

////Just sayin'

Oysterkid		2005-07-20 10:28:27 PM

Hi all, I'm sorry if this comment has already been made, but I have been really curious if anyone else noticed how Dumbledore behaved similar to a house elf in the poison drinking scene. He repeatedly stated how he didn't want to consume anymore of it, but before drinking it he directed Harry to ignore such pleading statements. This would lead one to believe that he expected himself to attempt to refuse drinking the poison, but for some reason he knew that if Harry commanded him to, that he would be compelled to continue drinking it. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Because, as soon as the poison was all gone, he reverted to Dumbledore-ish behavior. What does it mean?

bashandpop		2005-07-20 10:32:49 PM

weezbo

I thought the idea of having to buy all of your books and such for the year after your OWLs and only once getting to school finding out if you're qualified for the class was a pretty lame pretext for getting the textbook into Potter's hands.

the students found out if they were qualified when they received their scores before they ever bought their books. Slughorn was the new potions professor and he would accept a lower OWL mark for potions - lower than what Snape would have required. that's why Harry and Ron didn't buy a potions book, because they believed that Snape would be teaching NEWT level potions and their scores were lower than Snape's requirement.

as to this popular theory that Harry is a horcrux... no dice. remember that Voldemort collects trophies. Harry is no trophy. besides, there is already a question of whether part of his soul can be transferred to a living thing (Nagini, for instance).

Oysterkid		2005-07-20 10:42:18 PM

Oh, and also, any thoughts on my theory that Hagrid was the third person present for any possible unbreakable vow between Dumbledore and Snape? That could be the way he knows about them having an arrangement of some sort together, Dumbledore trusts him very much- he may slip up at times, but really, no one seems to talk to him outside of Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Dumbledore anyway. And what is the significance of Aragog's death? Sure, it provided a convenient way for Harry to interact with Slugworth, but they could have been set in any kind of scene for that discussion, why was it essential for it to take place at the burial of Arogog? Man, I'm a huge, huge nerd.

/Am 22
//Blame the nerdliness on my english degree

Mugato		2005-07-20 10:48:55 PM

I always thought Prince didn't look completly black.

elchip		2005-07-20 10:50:19 PM

Regarding the book in general

I enjoyed it. Yeah, I'm easily satisfied by books.

I think her writing style has matured with time. Markedly less childish. I liked the development of the characters. Admittedly, it was slow and not a whole lot happened.

No more lame Deus ex Machinas (Quirell burning when he touches Harry, a sword in a hat, priori incantatem), no more making the most seemingly unlikely possibility into an ending (Quirrel being the bad guy, Voldemort possessing Ginny, Black being good and Scabbers being bad, Mad-Eye Moody being an impostor).

Dumbledore and Snape

Dumbledore's death seemed pretty pointless, since R.A.B. already took the damn Horcrux (who the hell knows how) and decided to leave the poisonous water and all that.

I'd like to think Snape is still a "good guy," and that either:
1) Dumbledore told him to make the Unbreakable Vow
2) Snape didn't actually know the plan when he made the Unbreakable Vow

I'm guessing Dumbledore trusted Snape because they made a vow between themselves. Otherwise, Snape is much more powerful than has previously been indicated.

Other thoughts on this. Is having Snape as a spy really more important than killing off a wizard who can lasso a dozen Death Eaters, go toe-to-toe with Voldemort, ward Hogwarts with amazingly powerful magics, and provide a near-infinite fountain of knowledge?

If Snape is good, it lends support to their argument in the woods. It could also explain Dumbledore's pleading as something along the lines of "please kill me" and Snape's look of revulsion as revulsion at himself. It might also explain his incredible offense at being called a coward by Harry and, say, not stunning Harry and taking him to Voldemort.

If he is good, though, he is still an incredibly bitter asshole.

And if he is good, how can he ever gain the trust of the Order? There is nothing he can do without getting himself attacked/killed on sight.

Speculation

RAB is almost certainly Regulus Black. I have heard speculation that it's R. Amelia Bones, but I doubt it.

Draco might be redeemed. But he still sucks.

Snape probably redeems himself. Don't know how.

The locket in Grimmuald Place is a Horcrux, and Mundungus stole it.

Speaking of Horcruxes, they remind me of the receptacles in which Liches store their remains in D&D.

katamaran		2005-07-20 10:53:23 PM

quizzoid
Blues_X: don't EVER try to read that goddamn Robert Jordan series.

The Wheel of Time series? The first five books were pretty good, and then it started going downhill. And it's been a long, painful slide, 'cause he's up to book ten.

For a good laugh, read the Amazon customer reviews for "Crossroads of Twilight", which is book ten in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

The only thing funnier on Amazon is some of the reviews for the Family Circus books.

/yeah, yeah.... off-topic
//he started it

Those are classic...I'm still crying from that.

/27, reads HP inbetween Jordan manifestos
//just wants Rand to farking DIE already

stefanie		2005-07-20 10:56:45 PM

i read it yesterday, it made me sad.
also, r.a.b. = regulus black?

whydoIlovethevikings		2005-07-20 10:57:55 PM

somebody give me their take on how long the last(?) book will be.
So much to sew up!
I sort of hope Harry dies. It adds an element of tragedy and darkness that a lot of people in this post have already mentioned.
tragedy is awesome-have you heard of this guy Shakespeare? Now that dude writes a solid tradegy.

ZippyChippy		2005-07-20 11:02:09 PM

>>Dumbledore is dead, but has a way of communicating with Harry, just like Obi Wan in Star Wars. Stupid tricks to keep a character active.<<

I'm thinking something along the lines of a talking portrait?

ZC

jacaphene		2005-07-20 11:02:57 PM

"Snapes was really Lily's lover and unbeknownst to V the father of Harry and that's why V gave Lily a chance to step aside?"
Not possible. Harry is constantly being told that he looks just like his father and has his mother's eyes. If Snape was his father wouldn't look anything like him.
Harry is NOT the other Horcrux. Dumbledore would've said something to him about it if he was. Voldemort was too shocked and confused about the killing curse rebounding to have passed any part of his sould on. The book lists the remaining horcruxes as 1)Slytherin's locket, 2)Hufflepuff's cup, 3)something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's, 4)Nagini the snake that fed Voldemort. Dumbledore said that Voldemort has a strange affection for the snake that he doesn't have for anyone else. He says that Voldemort never had friends. It is extremely unlikely that he would ever place a part of his soul in another human.
I agree that Regulus is R.A.B. It makes so much sense. Just because Sirius hated him and thought he was an idiot doesn't mean that he was. I don't believe that Mundungus stole the locket. He had the goblet because in OoTP Sirius tossed it to him after saying that he didn't care what he did with it. The locket is either under the boiler in Kreacher's room or in some trash heap somewhere.
Mundungus was still knicking stuff from Sirius's hourse, but it is incredibly unlikely that he knew that Kreacher had his own secret stash of Black memorbilia.
And as much as I hate it, Dumbledore is dead. Fawkes would not have reacted the way that he did if Dumbledore was still alive, even if he was in some sort of waking death. And the portrait of Dumbledore would not have appeared in the office if he was still somehow alive.
If Snape was really evil, he would've done something to hurt Harry before disappearing. I do like the idea of Snape being in love with Lily. And if Snape made some sort of deal with Voldemort for Lily, he would've done it before he was good again.

23, read the book in 8 hours

Paranoid_Android		2005-07-20 11:09:07 PM

Extract of text, Dumbledroe's death.

(Chapter 7)

The sun lit the courtyard and the smell of early summer olives wafted on the warm breeze. Dumbledore and Snape waled hand in had throught down the vernada steps. "What a fine day this is" said Dumbledore with a kindly smile. Snape nodded in agreement.
A member of the Order hurried up to the pair. It was Shacklebolt, who had been on Owl duty all night. Dumbledore raised his eyebrows. Shaklebolt loked uncertainly at Snape for a second.
"It's alright Kinglsely" said Dumbledore. "Snape is a trusted member of the Order now."
Shaklebolt still looked uncertain, but continued. "We got a message from our Death Eater spy last night." He daid, and pulled a peice of of paper from his pocket. Dumbledore studied the paper for a second, then nodded to himself. He then adressed Snape.
"Out agenst says he has plenty of news, but he can't be sure his messages are safe to send. He wants to meet us, in person, today."
Snape made to leave. "I'll get the car, meet you out here in a minute."
"Let's us do it" said Dumbledore. "On second thoughts, would you let me drive? I've always wated to have a go with on of those motor-car thingys."
Snape laughed. "Of course, why not. Tonks has the key."
Beaming, Dumbledore hurried eagerly off to the garage.

Snape leaned against the porch and whached him go. He savourved the olive smell and the warmth of the sun, warmth he had not felt for a long time. The scar on his arm itched slightly, but that was only to expected, and he paid it no heed on this fine morning.

Suddenly, Shaklebolt appeared again. He was out of breath, and Snape imideailty saw the look of worry his face.
"What is it Kinglsey?"
shaklebolt got his breath back a bit.
"Thak God you're still here. We just got another message from our agent. Whatever you do, don't start the car. He says that there is a- "
But he was cut off, fro tha second an ear splitting boom split the air and blew the glass out of the window frames.

Stumbleine		2005-07-20 11:11:55 PM

whydoIlovethevikings:

tragedy is awesome-have you heard of this guy Shakespeare? Now that dude writes a solid tradegy.

Eh, he's okay. Not gonna last, though. He was definitely not on Oprah's list, and she's like, the greatest.

dankaos		2005-07-20 11:14:08 PM

I knew they would!

Doombuggyman		2005-07-20 11:16:05 PM

I think I may have been the only one who heard Pee-Wee Herman's voice during Harry's "break-up" speech to Ginny:

"You don't want to get mixed up with a guy like me. I'm a loner, Ginny... a REBEL. There's a lotta things about me you don't know anything about. Things you wouldn't understand. Things you couldn't understand. Things you SHOULDN'T understand."

MagicWeasel		2005-07-20 11:21:58 PM

Dumbledore did say that Harry would have to eliminate all the Horocruxes before eliminating Voldemort himself, the final soul part. This basically means Harry can't be a Horocrux, because he would have to die before he could kill the final one that resides in Voldemort.

wylie1		2005-07-20 11:21:59 PM

Shirley Ujest
My Petronus would be a bunny.

ive got a holy hand grenade that'll take care of that

/just sayin..

Sandwyrm		2005-07-20 11:26:12 PM

>>Dumbledore is dead, but has a way of communicating with Harry, just like Obi Wan in Star Wars. Stupid tricks to keep a character active.<<

I'm thinking something along the lines of a talking portrait?

ZC

How about Dumbledore becoming a ghost? The circumstances for being a ghost isn't really described, maybe for Dumbledore the conditions were met?

prjindigo		2005-07-20 11:28:01 PM

no ghosts from the Avada Kedavra

phaedra		2005-07-20 11:43:16 PM

BigJake: QUIT READING BOOKS FOR CHILDREN YOU ASSHATS!

Oh, get over it.

Evolutionary Thinker		2005-07-20 11:44:45 PM

out of curiousity did anyone get a book where the whole binding is upside down?

Unoriginality		2005-07-20 11:44:56 PM

since R.A.B. already took the damn Horcrux (who the hell knows how)

Kreacher? If the magic couldn't recognize Harry as a fully developed wizard, it certainly wouldn't notice a house elf.

Dumbear		2005-07-20 11:58:07 PM

Just a few things, as most people are (fortunately) right on with their comments about this one.

1) Harry is not a Horcrux, but his scar might be. It is clearly the point-of-entry for Voldemort 'transferring a piece of himself' to Harry. Also, Harry saw things through V's *and* Nagini's points-of-view in book 5. If he (also) carries a bit of V's soul with him, that would help each of those make sense. It's likely that the description that "V's curse didn't work as he expected" could explain how an 'unexpected' Horcrux could have resulted from the back-firing curse.

2) The simple reason that D trusts Snape is that Snape informed D of V's Horcrux plan. How better to know that the double-agent is on your side than to get the precise method of offing the enemy from him?

3) Obviously, Snape was in love with Lily. He probably told V of the prophecy with the caveat that V offer to spare Lily (which hasn't been adequately explained.) It would then make sense that Snape went to D, as he was distraught over Lily's death, told D about the Horcruxes, and (Unbreakably) vowed to forever protect the life of her son, Harry.

4) Hagrid's a goner. Probably Ron, too.

5) Ginny is ridiculously important. Harry's most powerful weapon is his capacity to love. And 2+2=4.

/time to re-read

Dumbear		2005-07-21 12:03:23 AM

Oop. More:

6) Also, Dumbledore's many associations with a phoenix (his steadfast pet, his patronus(!), and the phoenix-shaped smoke rising from spontaneously-combusting burial) are just too obvious as well. It means both that he's dead and that he'll come back. How he manages to do that, we don't rightly know (JKR certainly doesn't play fair with this stuff.) The 'Dumbledore=Ron' folks are clearly going nuts right now.

7) The other clues JKR's given in interviews are that some faculty have spouses that we haven't met (she was quite coy about that), and that there is a member of the Order who has been mentioned who will be instrumental ("properly introduced") in the end. Speculate away. (Regulus?)

theurge14		2005-07-21 12:04:22 AM

"Harry, I come back to you now at the turn of the tide."

Sheriam		2005-07-21 12:06:59 AM

I still fully trust Snape. Okay, maybe he's not a nice person, we know that. But the book is full of evidence he's still on the right side. I've written my case in a fanfic story rather than an article, http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2491649/1/ if anyone's interested. Of course I don't know whether it's true no one will learn the truth or believe it; there's Dumbledore's portrait that just might know everything up to the very last moment, or maybe Dumbledore has left a message to someone (Minerva? Or maybe Remus... Not Harry, that'd be useless for Harry didn't even really believe Dumbledore when he was alive and would never trust a message), but I sorta think that Snape will not be redeemed too soon... Odds are JKR will want to keep the readers in suspense for as long as possible!

borkborkbork		2005-07-21 12:10:20 AM

Stumbleine:

And before anyone thinks I'm a major dork (which I am, by the way, don't get me started on Ender's Game or anything like that) and that I memorize this stuff from obsessive re-readings, it is simply that I retain what I read really, really well. When everyone else was re-reading the series in preparation for this book, I didn't have to. I just retain it all. Rather sad, really.

Very late to the game - But I'm exactly the same way. I can't re-read books, I memorize them the first time through. But not word for word, although when prompted I can give very accurate details about things.

Even stranger given that I speed read.

mcpheesa		2005-07-21 12:20:49 AM

OK I have to bite.

Snape was acting on Dumbledores orders, both could ligimens and occulemens so who knows (well JK)what was said before spell was cast. The unbreakable vow snape made simply said he would finsih malfoy's mission there was no time frame (so technically snape could do this in 10 years time) so DD may be alive. Second point the portrait of Dumbledore didn't speak even during talk of shutting the school so may be a trick. Plus greatest wizard ever could easily fake death. (I personally think he is dead I hate cheesy resurrection stories)

Snape motives: snape hates half bloods joins LV. Dumbledore explains to him how LV is a half blood snape then sees no reason to follow him joins the order of the pheonix.

Snape loved Lily (unrequited of course), hated james anyway, hated him more when they get married, tells LV of prophecy assuming he will target Neville, harry was being held in secret snape was unaware he existed. Wormtail comes forward with position of james & lily who have a child now. LV sees this as fate/destiny picks the potters. Snape hates himself for lily's death and partially blames harry for being born.

R.A.B was probably regulas, started to steal holocruxes hid them in Grimwauld place then he was killed by death-eaters. Harry finds some in house then Cue search for sold items.

Harry does have part of Voldemort's soul (hence the whole marked as equal), perhaps not via intentional holocrux perhaps the spell rebounded killing LV making it the important death required to split a soul and part went into the only living thing nearby.

Harry will die while killing LV he will go to an after life and finally be reunited with the parents he never knew, sirius and dumbledore will also be there. He will leave his fortune to the weasleys. Also JK has been rumoured to be keen to kill harry to definitly end the series. Plus still leaves a nice "adventures of other members" spin off by other writers so she can milk royalties.

adam_sapple		2005-07-21 12:21:07 AM

Dumbledore is going to live again, don't forget that his animal is the phoenix!

lalaloo		2005-07-21 12:31:06 AM

Ok, so I've thought for some time that the prophecy regarding the "other" referred to a third person. I, too, believe that it is Wormtail - the whole debt thing and all. Also, the whole thing about one of them dying "at the hand of the other" really points to Wormtail's extra special silvery hand thingy. I got that reading after my first reading of the 5th book, but kept it to myself at the time because I wanted to tell a few select people and see if the thing actually played out.
Now I don't care one way or the other. It's far too predictable an ending anyhow, and this sixth book was a letdown. I haven't seen too much of this idea on the internet thusfar, I enjoyed the nod to the thought in this thread - but it needs to be plastered far and wide and elaborated on, because I've decided that it would be too much of a copout if that was simply that.
I'm trying to think up more connections to the Wormtail thing. For one, Voldemort is supposedly stronger and more immune to Potter due to the whole blood transfer thingy. He also got blood from Wormtail, which might lead one to believe that this would render him immune, but Wormtail's hand thingy is something apart from himself, so my guess is that it can still harm the big V. I've also noticed in the past a resemblance between Neville and Wormtail, but I've since disregarded this notion. Can't recall any more similarities just now, and I don't feel much like trudging out the older books.

xiphoid76		2005-07-21 12:36:56 AM

I am not sure if this was posted yet, but I was annoyed by the cover art of the book. In it Dumbledore's right arm looks healthy while over the pensive; however his right arm is supposed to be blackened. Also Harry is holding his wand in his left hand yet he uses his right hand for his wand. Bugged me during the whole book!

The_Player		2005-07-21 12:39:19 AM

damn i cant hate how these books are so far apart

The_Barbarian		2005-07-21 12:39:39 AM

Blues_X [TotalFark]

And if you got tired of the love interests in this story, don't EVER try to read that goddamn Robert Jordan series. Books 6-9 can be summed up with "girls don't understand boys, and boys don't understand girls. With magic."

Doesn't that describe all of them?

-

As far as LOTR and/or HP reusing old plots, yes they both do that. Tolkien added just the right extras to make it cool. I would say that Rowling did the opposite, but I have not actually made myself read enough of HP to judge it fairly.

--

borkborkbork [TotalFark]

Stumbleine:

And before anyone thinks I'm a major dork (which I am, by the way, don't get me started on Ender's Game or anything like that) and that I memorize this stuff from obsessive re-readings, it is simply that I retain what I read really, really well. When everyone else was re-reading the series in preparation for this book, I didn't have to. I just retain it all. Rather sad, really.

Very late to the game - But I'm exactly the same way. I can't re-read books, I memorize them the first time through. But not word for word, although when prompted I can give very accurate details about things.

Even stranger given that I speed read.

I also memorize books on the fist read, but then I re-read them anyway. There are some books I must have read 20+ times by now. I read fast but I can't say that I speed read.

/ Wheel of Time is great
// except 7, 8 and 9 (ten rocks)
/// I suppose I need to give HP a better try
//// George RR Martin sucks
///// Slashtastic

unrealious		2005-07-21 12:40:30 AM

So since every conceivable comment has all ready been made...

Is a movement being organized to lobby JKR to in the seventh book Bring Back Kirk?

ThusSpokeKayvon		2005-07-21 12:47:38 AM

Cyprocosmo		2005-07-21 12:54:12 AM

http://www.foundrymusic.com/opieanthony/displaymedia.cfm/id/10241/div/opieanth ony/media_search/latest/latest/all/page/download_RUINING_THE_NEW_HARRY_POTTER_ BOOK_IN_DALLAS.html#jump

Opie and Anthony had asked listeners to drive up to Barnes and Nobles where the people were in line at midnight to get the book and scream how the shiat ended, here are the results. O&A and Pat Battle Forever.

Snowbird		2005-07-21 01:03:53 AM

I know, I know, late to the game. But I had to add a couple of thoughts, and reminders.

The book didnt belong to Snapes (ergo, James/Sirius/Remus) generation. But it could have been his mothers. Just because it was printed 50 years before, doesnt mean Snape couldnt have used it while at school.

Niether Voldemort nor Dumbledore is Snapes father. In OotP, when Harry uses the shield charm during his Occlumency lessons, he sees into some of Snapes past. He sees.a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner It is reasonable to assume, after both the diary in CoS and the experience with the live Voldemort the year before, Harry would have recognized him in this scene.

Dumbledore is, indeed, dead. The portrait aside, remember that the Petrificus Totalus was released as soon as Avada Kedavra hit Dumbledore. Only his death would have released him, since no one could know he was there and say (or think) the counter-jinx for him.
Of course, lets not forget the symbolism with the Phoenix, and the origins of a Phoenix, coupled with the bright light at his funeral.
One can hope.

Oh, and one more thing: Try to be clear when abbreviating (I know JKR herself is annoyed at the habit of calling Riddle "Voldy"). That aside, however, to those of you calling Dumbledore "Big D": In the beginning of OotP, right before the Dementor scene, Harry catches up with Dudley and his friends, discovering he has taken on the name "Big D." Not too bad, but for those who keep such odd things in their mind, like me, it got a little confusing.

theurge14		2005-07-21 01:07:57 AM

R.A.B. = Regulus Black

Consider the following

Book 5 (Order Of The Phoenix)
Chapter 6 (The Noble and Most Ancient House Of Black)

Sirius jabbed a finger at the very bottom of the tree, at the name Regulus Black. A date of death (some fifteen years previously) followed the date of birth.

He was younger than me, said Sirius, and a much better son, as 1 was constantly reminded.

But he died, said Harry.

Yeah, said Sirius. Stupid idiot he joined the Death Eaters.

Youre kidding!

Come on, Harry, havent you seen enough of this house to tell what kind of wizards my family were? said Sirius testily.

Were were your parents Death Eaters as well?

No, no, but believe me, they thought Voldemort had the right idea, they were all for the purification of the wizarding race, getting rid of Muggleborns and having purebloods in charge. They werent alone, either, there were quite a few people, before Voldemort showed his true colours, who thought he had the right idea about things they got cold feet when they saw what he was prepared to do to get power, though. But I bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at first.

Was he killed by an Auror? Harry asked tentatively.

Oh, no, said Sirius. No, he was murdered by Voldemort. Or on Voldemorts orders, more likely; I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you dont just hand in your resignation to Voldemort. Its a lifetime of service or death.

Sounds alot like what is happening to Draco Malfoy to me.

And regarding where the real Horcrux is, from a few pages later in the same chapter:

They found an unpleasantlooking silver instrument, something like a manylegged pair of tweezers, which scuttled up Harrys arm like a spider when he picked it up, and attempted to puncture his skin. Sirius seized it and smashed it with a heavy book entitled Natures Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy. There was a musical box that emitted a faintly sinister, tinkling tune when wound, and they all found themselves becoming curiously weak and sleepy, until Ginny had the sense to slam the lid shut; a heavy locket that none of them could open; a number of ancient seals; and, in a dusty box, an Order of Merlin, First Class, that had been awarded to Siriuss grandfather for services to the Ministry.

Badabing.

Book 6 tells us that Mundungus Fletcher was "stealing" items from Grimmauld Place. Also recall from Book 5 that Mundungus was part of the Order of the Phoenix and was loyal to Dumbledore for "getting him out of a tight spot"

Mundungus secured the Horcrux for Dumbledore early on in Book 6.

What I can't figure out is why they had to go find the fake one.

Steve_pss		2005-07-21 01:14:14 AM

So Dumby can't have any Whorecruxes of his own?

theurge14		2005-07-21 01:31:58 AM

And one last bit from Book 5 Chapter 6...

Its ideal for Headquarters, of course, Sirius said. My father put every security measure known to wizardkind on it when he lived here. Its unplottable, so Muggles could never come and call as if theyd ever have wanted to and now Dumbledores added his protection, youd be hard put to find a safer house anywhere. Dumbledore is Secret Keeper for the Order, you know nobody can find Headquarters unless he tells them personally where it is

Which means Mundungus was unable to steal from Grimmauld Place unless Dumbledore told him where it was, somewhat like the Room Of Requirement.

theurge14		2005-07-21 01:38:14 AM

Steve_pss: So Dumby can't have any Whorecruxes of his own?

You have to murder someone and lose a bit of your soul to do that. Means, you have to be on the dark side. Don't think so.

Confoundit		2005-07-21 02:06:54 AM

weigelt:
See, if I were a parent, there's no way I'd let my kid read this. Not for that factor, but for some of the other stuff. Like the werewolf wanting to rip out children's throats because they were "delicious"...and the corpses that rise out of the lake inside the cave that Dumby and Harry enter. I'm really curious how they're going to treat stuff like that in the movie.

Yeah, there are a lot of really farked up moments in the Harry Potter books. Like when Harry has to write lines with the pen that scratches his hand until Harry has yet another permanent scar. The whole scene where Harry has to keep feeding Dumbledore the poison was horrible.

Mephistox:
Also, DOES ANYONE REALIZE THAT DUMBLEDORE'S GOT A PICTURE OF HIMSELF IN THE OFFICE!?!?! obviously hes still sentinent because Phineas Black is, and hes probably been dead for 100+ years.

I thought the exact same thing. Someone with a picture of himself would be practically immortal, without having to commit murder. I think the talking paintings are the biggest problem of the entire series. Harry could be able to talk to his parents or Sirius whenever he wanted.

snaperox:
The paintings are like the ghosts though - an imprint of the person - not really the person themselves. So how much help could he be?

The paintings in Dumbledore's office are always volunteering advice on how to run the school, so why can't Dumbledore give Harry advice on strategies to kill voldemort? Even if it's just an imprint, it's better than nothing.

The book never explained why Voldemort chose to ask Slughorn about horuxes. Slughorn was well connected, but he wasn't an incredibly powerful or dark wizard. And his comments to Voldemort showed that he only knew the very basics about horuxes. I'm sure that the process to create a horux requires more than just killing someone, meaning that Vold still would have had to do a hell of a lot of research or experimentation before figuring out the spell. If Vold hadn't asked Slughorn about than it is likely that no one would have known that the horuxes existed, and they sure wouldn't have known that he had made 7 of them.

Redwing		2005-07-21 02:41:24 AM

My 2 cents:

The book was shorter than 4&5, thank you. However, it did skip over some elements that we grew accustomed to in the series.

Art_Shamsky was kind of on the right track as to what a typical Harry Potter book entailed. This book was different, to me, in that:

* - we didn't hear much from the Dursleys period.
* - Harry misses the feast and the sorting.
* - Harry and friends are going to drop potions only to see that Snape is now the DADA daddy.
* - the magical doohickey is not there after all Dumby went through.

This book had the feel of Episode V of Star Ware, ESB.

With the way the book was written overall, I felt JK rushed through some areas and dragged out others. Unlike previus books, where she dragged everything out in full, if not nauseating detail.

The emoting was kept to a minimum. I didn't catch a lot of descriptive smirkings or sneers like previous books.

I too, thought LV was the HBP.

I think Dumbledore is dead, but his picture in the headmasters quarters will more than make up for his physical absence. Remember, the headmasters move from pic to pic at times, and I'm sure we'll see Dumbledore moving just the same.

I saw some heart in Draco (crying to Moaning Myrtle, dropping the wand), but I doubt there will be any allegiance or alliance with Potter. He still owes Potter for the bathroom brawl. He's still Slytherin, and cannot be trusted.

Snape will most likely do one of three things in 7:

* - Die
* - Be sent to Azkhaban for life
* - Become the new Hogwarts Headmaster

I don't think Potter will die in 7. It closes too many doors for more merchandising prostitution.

I think many characters will be killed, including a few of the children in 7. It has to propel the story and the emotions we've built up. Here's a few I think will get the axe:

* - Cho Chang
* - Lupin
* - Pansy Parkinson
* - Dean Thomas
* - Professor Slughorn
* - Grawp
* - Aunt Petunia

I envision a large battlefield a la LOTR or Braveheart or Matrix or even Monty Python and the Holy Grail. And Potter and Voldemort meet in some cave where they finish it.

Overall, I give it a 7 out of 10. Not the most illustrative book she's written, but it does cut to the chase and stays there. I can only imagine book 7 being no less than 1000 pages.

While I'm at it, can someone explain (or point me in the right direction) why Book 4 was called the Goblet of Fire when it had very little to do with the book? It probably should have just been called Harry Potter and the Tri-Wizards Tournament.

/35
//soapbox
///Guiness Poured

Displayed 50 of 372 comments