A scholarly analysis of Rowling's motivations, revealed through the semantic aspect of her writing, is here.

I am indebted to JonJonB, whose line of attack I have followed.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/garlandgraves/3409.html

For a very good synopsis of "Snape is not evil" discussion.

/not the author.

I'd hit it, even if she didn't have more money than Queen Elizabeth II.

I think it was a mistake to introduce supply side economics and the Hogwarts pension refinancing subplot. It tended to distract the reader from oh never mind.

I though it had been establshed that the scar was the result of the protection Harry was given by his mother.

In addition, if He Who Must Not Be Named is experienced at making horcruxs, and Harry was to be the 7th, then why would trying to make Harry into one destroy his body?

dougermouse: The scar on Harry is the horcrux.

Well, I don't think the scar itself is the horcrux -- it isn't like Harry could just chisel it off. I think it indicates that Harry IS a horcrux.

anyone else keep thinking Septic Emperor?

Ok, for all you "kids shouldn't read this heavy stuff" or "it's too hard to figure out for little kids" may I humbly suggest you try and read "Tom Sawyer?"
Or the original "Winnie the Pooh"
Pr the original "Peter Pan"

Holy cripes, it's gobbledy-gook giberish and almost impossible tomake heads or tails of the sentences!!

If they can handle THAT, they can handle fast food literature like Harry Potter!

how nice to have a Harry Potter thread with a spoiler warning in the headline. i was upset at the last HP thread. i probably should have known better. ah well.

i'm really glad that book 6 wasn't nearly as dark as book 5. i guess it was that transitionary phase Harry went through. boys seem to change a lot between the ages of 14 and 16. also, i loved Harry's new attitude! LOL! i cracked up at the "you don't have to call me sir" comment.

MK-Ultra71:

Everyone assumes the scar is an after effect of a powerful curse that Harry survived. Could be the effect of Harry being made a horcrux. And V has being trying to kill Harry, just trying to regain that part of his soul.

Aren't you forgetting the part in OotP where LV briefly posesses Harry and is subjected to intense pain? Surely if Harry had a part of LV already (kinky!)inside his body it would be just a bit more accomodating to the real one?

How about Snape really has gone over to the dark side and bites the ring off of Voldemorts finger and plunges into an abyss?

1. Snape and Dumbledore both knew Dumbledore was poisoned beyond saving. Dumbledore asked for and Snape gave the "coup de grace", and it also helped preserve Snape's cover.

2. Harry is the Horcrux. Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort left a little piece of himself in Harry, as well as some of his abilities. Harry will die in order to bring down Voldemort.

3. R.A.B. is Regulus Black, Sirius' brother.

4. Yes, I'm wwwaaaayy over 14. Get over it.

andyb2260:

Dumbledore and Snape polyjuiced each other.
Dumbledore is Snape and Snape is Dumbledore.
Dumbledore killed Snape.

That would almost work, but that would leave the need to explain the appearence of Dumbledor's Potrait in his office (signifying his death).

Poe:

In addition, if He Who Must Not Be Named is experienced at making horcruxs, and Harry was to be the 7th, then why would trying to make Harry into one destroy his body?

I think making Harry into a Horcrux was an unintentional side effect. I think part of the process of making a Horcrux is you have to choose which murder will be a horcrux -- you have to catch your soul splitting just as it does, so other, less important murders can't produce a horcrux. Voldemort probably intending on killing Harry, who he thought was what he was supposed to do in accordance with the prophecy, but Harry's mum sacrificing herself screwed it up. The ancient protection was then on Harry when Voldemort went to kill him, all prepared to make a horcrux, and when it rebounded, it made the AK fail, but not the horcrux. Voldemort was poofed away, but what was left of his soul split anyway, and half deposited itself in Harry, the other floated until it found the rats and snakes that would suffice until he found Quirrell.

At the end of the last book, this giant dragon comes down and eats EVERYBODY.

the end.

Having read the other books but not planning on getting to this one any time soon...just what the fark is a horcrux? And who or what is the half-blood prince? The headline said spoilers, people! Give them to me!

I don't think Snape is evil, either. Dumbledore is no dummy, and he made sure he to0ld Harry he made mistakes, big ones. I'm certain that Snape, like Lupin, has been put deep undercover. Dumbeldore would certainly give his life it he knew it would help the cause, and, as evidenced by the beginning of the book, the other death eaters don't trust snape. Killing dumbledore would certainly buy a lot of trust.

Anybody else notice how Dumbledore was trying to convince Draco that they could hide him from Voldy by making it look like they killed him (same with dear ol' mum) just before Dumbledore himself was killed by his trusted buddy Snape? Kinda makes you think that Dumbledore might still be alive and will go about hunting the Horcruxes, just ahead of Harry the whole time. Harry'll probably discover that Dumbledore's still alive just before he fights Voldy.

Gotta agree, the whole wizards in love thing seems kinda tacked on.

Oh, and am I the only one here that thinks Neville is going to be a complete badass when this whole thing is over? I mean his parents were two of the greatest Aurorers of their time, and in Book 5 he was clearly getting a good grasp on the Defense of the Dark Arts. I think he's totally going to suprise everyone.

/For the record, I'm 22.
//Chicks dig Harry Potter

Snape is still good, Dumbledore knew he was going to die and begged Snape to kill him so that Draco could be saved and Snape's cover wouldn't be blown.

RAB is Sirus Black's brother who was killed by the Death Eaters soon after Voldemort's original fall.

I have to agree with whoever said the potion drinking scene was intense. Hell, it was pretty farked up ;-)

art_shamsky: just what the fark is a horcrux? And who or what is the half-blood prince?


Snape is the Half-Blood Prince. He is one of the children of a witch whose last name was Prince and a muggle, making him a half-blood Prince. I know, stupid and not worthy of the title and supposedly main focus of the book, though I suppose it was supposed to draw attention to Snape's importance, since he killed Dumbledore.

A horcrux is a thing that contains part of a soul. A person can split their soul in two and keep one half in something else and retain the other half so that if one is destroyed, they can go on living. Voldemort apparently did it several times. Dumbledore was weakened to the point of near-death attempting to retrieve one to destroy it (having already destroyed one) but it turned out to be a fake, placed by someone who got ahold of the real one a long time ago.

woodpecker from mars

Can I tell you how much I HATE the Young Wizards in Love subplot?

That, my friend, definitely qualifies on the "obscure reference" top 10 list. I thought that short-lived bit was a riot... thanks for the reminiscent laugh!

SwampyBalls

38. Still blond and (relatively) pretty, tho.

Snape hit Dumbledore's dead hand with the Avada Kedavra curse. Can't kill something that's already dead, Dumbledore's alive.

/do I win?
//first time you slashes/
///slash.

This one wasn't up to the standard of the others. It wasn't the darkness of the plot, or the different tone. It just didn't seem to contain the TLC, the wonderful details, and depth of the others. Too much clunky exposition, there's too many jarring shifts in tone where there's been apparently no attempt to blend the light with the dark.

There are wonderful moments, to be sure, but it's a bit of a disappointment.

>>Aren't you forgetting the part in OotP where LV briefly posesses Harry and is subjected to intense pain? Surely if Harry had a part of LV already (kinky!)inside his body it would be just a bit more accomodating to the real one?<<

I'm not sure Voldemort would have Horcruxed (I'm coining a verb, bear with me) Harry on purpose. His attempt to murder him went horribly awry in ways he could not envision. Perhaps Harry is an accidental Horcrux. There's an undeniable spiritual connection between the two of them. And there's is definitely something of Voldemort in Harry -- it's been said many times, throughout the books.

I also found the Inferi in the dark lake a bit too reminiscent of the Dead Marshes in Lord of the Rings. And the shining silver doorway was more than a little akin to the gates of Moria.

Hoping for better in Book 7.

ZC

Stumbleine: Thanks for the explanations. Any other significant spoilers to give me? By the time I get around to reading the book, I'll have forgotten anyway. You should indulge me now ;) And thanks again!

I won't be reading it, I got a copy the day it was released so my wife could read it, she is a big fan of the series. It will be passed around the family for weeks I'm sure.

/witchcraft is real
//not necessarily evil
///you probably know a witch and don't even know it

Also, Harry is Gryffindor's Heir his parents lived at a home named after Gryffindor

J.K. Rowling is now taking her place beside George Lucas as queen of wooden dialouge. Seriously, with this being book number 6 it felt like Episode 1. It advanced Harry's plot and mission just a little bit and she found out how to advanced the series for a few more books. She may be tired of writing, maybe not. Either way this book wasn't really up to par. The death of Dumbledore didn't really shock me as much as I would have thought. Most of my feelings were hate towards Snape because of James and Lilly. As good of an actor Dumbledore is, he saw it coming. It was all laid out for him. When in this series have you seen him surprised by anything? I have gone on far too long. Book was a disappointment but I did enjoy Lupin/Tonks at the end... made me feel all warm and fuzzy and I did like the plot movement but damn there wasnt enough action.

Dumbledore and Snape polyjuiced each other.
Dumbledore is Snape and Snape is Dumbledore.
Dumbledore killed Snape.

The young wizards in love subplot is necessary. C'mon, a bunch of 16 year olds running around together...it would be unbelieveable if none of the Potter gange got together.

And, reading these books, brothers grimm, watching 'watership down' and the 'secret of nimh' teaches children triumph in adversity. If you're worried about negative influences, etc, read and discuss the book with your spawn,and discuss.

I actually really enjoyed this one...Snape and Draco both had a little more character development. Some of the lines in the book made me laugh out loud though...

example: Mrs. Weasley "Now I'm going to have to go knock something up."

/I'd hit it, too, Mrs Weasley!

Moreause

Anybody else notice how Dumbledore was trying to convince Draco that they could hide him from Voldy by making it look like they killed him (same with dear ol' mum) just before Dumbledore himself was killed by his trusted buddy Snape? Kinda makes you think that Dumbledore might still be alive and will go about hunting the Horcruxes, just ahead of Harry the whole time. Harry'll probably discover that Dumbledore's still alive just before he fights Voldy.

Gotta agree, the whole wizards in love thing seems kinda tacked on.

I don't know, before he died did Dumbledore say "If you kill me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"?

If that's the case...



Perhaps he'll send Harry off to go study under some "other" master wizard. Dobby looks enough like Yoda.

I liked it, although there was a lot less action and a lot more exposition in this book. I admit that I kind of miss the over-the-top funny stuff that used to happen in the books. I understand that the situation in the books is more serious now, Harry is older and he's faced with very serious problems, etc. However, I still miss some of the very funny things and sly in-jokes that the older Harry Potter books had.

I was more surprised than I should have been when Snape offed Dumbledore. Another board I am on had people positing all kinds of interesting theories about back-end deals Snape could have made with Dumbledore, but I'm not sure I buy any of them. Rowling does a great job of making everything more complicated than it initially seems, so I'll be interested to see how things with Snape play out in the last book. I thought the Harry/Ginny thing felt kind of underdeveloped but I don't read the books for the teenybopper romance stuff :)

This book was definitely a page-turner. Many authors let their work slide waaaayy downhill when their series come close to the end. Rowling is doing a great job of keeping the books interesting. I think this book was mainly just a set-up for the next and final book, but I still really enjoyed reading it. My favorite, though, remains Goblet of Fire.

I really enjoyed this latest book. They have all been good but "Azkaban" and this one are my first and second favorites so far.

art_shamsky: Thanks for the explanations. Any other significant spoilers to give me?

Ron and Hermione finally get together. Harry and Ginny have a brief and pointless fling that ends in a badly written break up scene that leads to a better written scene when Harry decides he has to leave Hogwarts. Which isn't that big a deal, since Hogwarts may not remain open.

Hm, not much else, really. Main complaints are some seriously bad dialogue, and pointless romance scenes. Oh, uh, Bill Weasley part werewolf now? Marrying Fleur Delacour from Book 4. Effing French.

Well, that's a nice idea, except for the many-hundreds-of-feet fall that left him a crumpled, broken heap of dead headmaster....

Dumbledore could cast spells without moving his lips. He also slowed Harry's fall during a Quidditch match one year. Who is to say that he didn't cast some sort of safe fall/protection about himself?

I enjoyed this book quite a bit but I want to reread it because I've missed a lot of stuff. Oops!

The link to the livejournal entry is a good one. Some very interesting theories.

art_shamsky
Snape is the HBP which I figured out early on in the book so go me! WOO!

/is 24
//loves Harry Potter (the series not the character)
///Still loves Snape liek whoa
////slashy slashy!

And before anyone thinks I'm a major dork (which I am, by the way, don't get me started on Ender's Game or anything like that) and that I memorize this stuff from obsessive re-readings, it is simply that I retain what I read really, really well. When everyone else was re-reading the series in preparation for this book, I didn't have to. I just retain it all. Rather sad, really.

I think that the 6th Horcrux is something of Harry's.
If V colleted souveniers, then perhaps by killing the child of prophecy, V would want something of the Potter family. Perhaps the picture of Harry and his parents that he fondly looks at. Harry would have to destroy the only thing that keeps him close to his parents, their picture with him.

Since V hasn't attempted to regain any of his horcrux's, this would allow for him to be in possession of it.

I also believe that Snape's story line still has some twists and turns, perhaps the 'must kill D' to stay close to V kind of thing, for the order. Snape had the opportunity to immobulus (sp) Harry and take him with him to V, and Snape didn't kill anybody, including Hagrid, who was nearby.

/28
//owns the 3 movies
///read this book in about 8 hours total
////my girlfriend got me into HP a few years ago.

snaperox: Snape is the HBP which I figured out early on in the book so go me! WOO!

I hate to be rude, but it was really obvious. The HBP was a talented Potions student with an interest in the Dark Arts?

ZippyChippy: And the shining silver doorway was more than a little akin to the gates of Moria.

Well, c'mon, it is just a door....just cuz Tolkien used it first (and better, but I digress) doesn't mean it can't be used by anyone. does it?

Also, Harry is Gryffindor's Heir his parents lived at a home named after Gryffindor

Yeah, Godric's hollow or something.

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore.

"Avada Kedavara!"

A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest.


from the book. Sorry to dash any hopes.

Spoilers...I'll give you a spoiler.
You will die alone!

so Siriuss brother quit the Death Eaters, stole the locket, hid it, and got killed? Makes sense.

I am pretty sure Harrys got a bit of Voldy in him... having a piece of Voldys soul would explain the mysterious link between the two, for one thing, and would go a long way in explaining what Dumbledore meant about Voldy making the prophesy legit by merely believing in it. He wants to reclaim that piece of his soul, i think, because he never intended for it to be in Harry to begin with, and understands that this is the reason why Harry has some weird power over his own fate.

Dumbledores death sucked. Ive read French novels with deaths more meaningful... So somethings up there, and I dont think Snape is Evil at all. I think he did what Dumbledore wanted him to do. Hell, Dumbledores probably Gandalfing.

/half the keys on my keyboard are broken.