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(MSNBC)   Rove learned about Plame from...the press. Breathless outrage, anti-press rants in 3...2...1   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 1025
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15432 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jul 2005 at 5:28 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-15 07:48:23 PM
Solid State Vittles
Tampa has a subway? Wow. Didn't know that.


Can't find it.
The terrorist must have asploded it.
 
2005-07-15 07:48:42 PM
andrew131

Since you're a lawyer, an expert in treason no less, we'll take your word for it.
 
2005-07-15 07:48:57 PM
Tinian debunks the above article because it's from the Washington Post in 3... 2... 1...
 
2005-07-15 07:49:28 PM
Reading the statute would then kill this argument and what fun would that be?
 
2005-07-15 07:49:59 PM
Don't lose track that President Bush thought that her outing was a big deal and vowed reparations against the guilty party. And, now, it seems to be not a big deal at all. Typical.
 
2005-07-15 07:50:21 PM
chewd

How does that explain why Kerry gets a free pass on this? You know, how he's saying Rove should be removed for doing the exact same thing he did.
 
2005-07-15 07:51:12 PM
Stuff McDicken

Which one? I quoted another that has everything to do with exposing C.I.A. employee's. See upthread for my post which all the true believers have avoided.
 
2005-07-15 07:52:47 PM

perhaps it is the right's turn to source all those losses resulting from Durbin's testimony ?


anyway, repeat.


First off, when two competing papers get the same highly specific story on the same day, that's not an accident. The story was shopped to them both.

Second, the story was shopped by "a lawyer" who had "knowledge" of Rove's testimony to prosecutors.

Third, this particular story is the only chain of events which even has the slightest possibility of keeping Karl Rove out of prison. (And even then, it's touch and go, given Novak's own, shall we say, inconsistencies in describing how and when he got the information.)

So I'll give you three guesses which "lawyer" shopped this info out, and the first two guesses don't count. Here's a hint: it's also someone who, when defending the innocence of a money laundering suspect, accepted payment in the form of gold bars and transfers from a Swiss bank account.
 
2005-07-15 07:54:16 PM
 
2005-07-15 07:54:25 PM
Can't you right-wing zealots put your country's interests ahead of your own whacked ideology just once?

What the hell do you get out of supporting this insanity other than the feeling that you are aggravating the hell out of so many? You are like the shiatheads who get a giggle out of stomping on a kid's sand castle just to see a kid cry.
 
2005-07-15 07:55:31 PM
sativo

Original and clever! You simply must be a Republican.
 
2005-07-15 07:55:31 PM
2wolves
Don't make me hunt around on American Spectator and NRO to find it; just take my word for it.
 
2005-07-15 07:56:08 PM
sativo

Well, yes... Democrats care about babies. Unlike Republicans, whose only constituency is a bunch of fetuses. Once you're born, they don't want you.
 
2005-07-15 07:57:21 PM
dbaggins

Thanks for the link. Novak is such a weenie. No wonder the Righties love him.
 
2005-07-15 07:57:29 PM
2wolves
Well, when the author of the statute writes and states clearly on TV that according to the statute Karl Rove committed no crime, then yes. I would be correct.
 
2005-07-15 07:57:48 PM

WaPo Oct4, 2003


The name of the CIA front company was broadcast yesterday by Novak, the syndicated journalist who originally identified Plame. Novak, highlighting Wilson's ties to Democrats, said on CNN that Wilson's "wife, the CIA employee, gave $1,000 to Gore and she listed herself as an employee of Brewster-Jennings & Associates."



WiKi page on BJ&A
 
2005-07-15 07:58:00 PM
Keith Myath

Give up on the BS "John Kerry/Richard Lugar outed a CIA agent" story. The agent in question wasn't undercover.

Read this, especially the quote about "hardly a state secret". Maybe you'll believe Michelle farking Malkin?
 
2005-07-15 07:58:30 PM
Keith Myath: How does that explain why Kerry gets a free pass on this?

I still thought it was Bill Clintons fault? Guess Hillary didn't work as a decoy either..
 
2005-07-15 07:58:38 PM
2wolves
How did you guess? Actually I liek the picture. Didn't win the PS contest but got quite a few votes

LocalCynic
Well, yes... Democrats care about babies. Unlike Republicans, whose only constituency is a bunch of fetuses. Once you're born, they don't want you.


Democrats care because they have to have something to abort when the going gets tough. Kinda like a bid for the presidency.


/cuz i care
 
2005-07-15 07:59:27 PM
andrew131

Old bean, I quoted another statute. Please try to keep up. It's so very dull repeating things time and again for the Republicans.
 
2005-07-15 08:00:33 PM
THE HA! HA! PICTURE IS PLAYED OUT, AND RECENT, LAME ASS CAPTIONS BETRAY A COMPLETE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT MADE IT FUNNY IN THE FIRST PLACE
 
2005-07-15 08:00:37 PM
"Didn't win"

Dibold wasn't in your pocket for that one? How depressing.
 
2005-07-15 08:00:48 PM
sativo:

OMG LOL. If you know any jokes about airplane food, you could hit the comedy circuit.
 
2005-07-15 08:01:10 PM
Rove is lying. You know their cornered when their spin is this silly. Yea... Novak told me ... yea that's it.
Rove has the intelligence clearance and the motive and has done this in the past (leak info to Novak).
 
2005-07-15 08:02:31 PM
sativo:

Democrats care because they have to have something to abort when the going gets tough. Kinda like a bid for the presidency.

Read my lips.

Dole-Kemp.

Nuff said.
 
2005-07-15 08:03:31 PM
Befuddled
Can't you right-wing zealots put your country's interests ahead of your own whacked ideology just once?

That's the point. They can't. They haven't figured out that they're celebrating being lied to about something as important as this war.

Every single reason given has turned to dust, and they're still not questioning a thing. They are in fact joyous that we've blown all this money. They're dancing in the streets over the damage being done to public school funding. They're salivating at the thought of handing our Social Security off to private interests.

Brits, thanks for Orwell.

 
2005-07-15 08:03:43 PM
localcynic

as opposed to the Dems who want the fetus dead to begin with. Pretty stupid post ...
 
2005-07-15 08:04:18 PM
Solid State Vittles

I thought about it, but I'm allergic to tomatos. Actually.. I do do this because I care. I can't remember the last thread where democratic members of fark were actually kind and appreciative of republican views. This story will play out and it will be yet another reason that attacks from both sides of the aisle are futile and only make the losing side look bad. Until then, I will keep my gas can can ready!
 
2005-07-15 08:04:27 PM
What's great about the Novak quote, is how worked up about discovering she gave $1000 to Gore's campaign, and rolls along wrecking national intelligence efforts in the same sentence, but puts her campaign contribution first so that the faithful republiicans are apt to understand the necessity of what he is doing.

ha ha, total and complete partisan shill.
 
2005-07-15 08:04:59 PM
sativo - Wow. You've evolved a thumb AND html knowledge.

You're obviously new round these parts,
so here's one for ya:

 
2005-07-15 08:06:08 PM
Stuff McDicken

Until you've been raped, and got pollinated, you should just STFU.
 
2005-07-15 08:06:34 PM
 
2005-07-15 08:08:14 PM
Typical neo-con lies and propaganda- always blame the media

Conservatives have been trying to smear the media since Woodward and Bernstein revealed the republican leadership for the bunch of lowbrow crooks it has always been and will always be as long as people like Rove have even a lick of influence.

Not that Novak is any 'wonderboy'.
 
2005-07-15 08:08:21 PM
Stuff McDicken:

as opposed to the Dems who want the fetus dead to begin with. Pretty stupid post ...

What you mean is "as opposed to the Democrats, who want people to be responsible, use birth control, and do what they can to prevent unwanted pregnancies."

Ah, the good old "WAAAAH DEMOCRATS GENOCIDED BABIES!" argument. What a joke.
 
2005-07-15 08:08:57 PM
sativo

 
2005-07-15 08:09:04 PM
don't bite on the abortion, Clintons or Kerry hook they're fishing with now.

this is still about Rove.
 
2005-07-15 08:09:14 PM

And the original leaker is... you guessed it! Frank Stallone!




the_pgoat
Rove-->Miller-->Novak-->calls and confirms with Rove (aka, Rove didn't divulge to Novak. In my scenario, Miller does not reveal to Novak who told her either.)-->prints story.


Problem: Novak said his first source was "no partisan gunslinger," so I doubt Miller was that source. Also, we know that Cooper was the one to have approached Rove about this, and if Novak did the same, then why not Miller? Maybe we shouldn't think linearly.

Unknown tells both Miller.
Unknown source tells Novak. Same source? We dunno.
Miller and other reporters call Rove for confirmation.
Rove thus becomes informed.
Novak tells Rove.
Rove responds that he'd heard it, too, which Novak documents as a confirmation.
Cooper calls Rove, brings up Wilson.
Rove tells him what he'd heard.

Miller might well have told Novak as well, but Novak cited two sources: a non-partisan, and Rove, and in that chronological order, so the original leaker was most likely either Novak's first source or Miller's source, though I'm not sure of the chronology, and I can't rule out simultaneous leaks. Perhaps they were both notified by the same person. Lewis Libby, perhaps? The trick is that Libby himself said he, too, initially heard the story from the media.

Dear Lord, this whole case might become an infinite loop of leak investigations. :P

Come to think of it, if so many reporters were aware of the story before Rove talked to Cooper, you'd have to wonder how many of these same people, who knew that Rove's conversation with Cooper wasn't the actual breach to the public, either dogpiled on him as though it were or said nothing.


pontechango
NONE of the above four actions took place. Had Rove actually heard Plame's name from the media, this is EXACTLY what Rove should have done.


You can diss Rove for not taking more precautions, but it doesn't disprove what he said. Besides, the problem with that argument is that because you are accusing him of being negligent as opposed to actually leaking a name, you could just as easily apply that logic to each of the reporters who spread the leak from either government officials or fellow reporters. That is, you can say that even if they didn't know Plame was covert, they should have considered the possibility that they were helping out a CIA agent and done the following:

1. The reporter should have immediately told the government official or fellow reporter that discussing the identity of a CIA agent may be illegal (everyone knows that some CIA agents are undercover while others aren't).

2. The reporter should have then called the CIA and inquired about whether or not the agent was undercover.

3. If the CIA does not confirm overt agent status, the reporter should have told the CIA that if this agent was indeed undercover, that she should be notified and informed that her cover had been blown.

4. The reporter should have then handed over a description of the conversation with Rove to the CIA for investigation.

Now, do I think it would have been better had a reporter like Cooper thought of doing all this instead of firing off an e-mail to his superiors. Of course. Do I think that what he did was criminally negligent? No. Maybe it simply didn't occur to him that the name he'd been passed was that of an undercover agent. You could argue that Rove would have even less reason to think as much hearing the name from a reporter instead of a government figure.

Also, supposing it's true, why did Rove subsequently discuss her identity with Cooper? Why was he gossiping about a covert agent to other reporters?

Same reason the reporters were gossiping in the first place: to compare stories and check if Wilson was indeed lying about his wife's involvement in his hiring. Furthermore, it appears that a few reporters like Cooper approached Rove (not vice versa), and either asked him about who recommended Wilson for the trip (the answer to which had already been floating around) or straight-up told him, as did Cooper and Novak, respectively.

We can't say for sure yet what the hell happened, but Rove's story doesn't yet seem to contradict the core facts of the case. Everyone had better put the brakes on the rhetoric, especially those who've been calling for a hanging. Hell, I called for Rove to be whacked with a fish for his conversation with Cooper, and even I might need to take that back. Then again, fish-slapping is funny regardless of its legal merit, so maybe I can let it stand.



/huh, I just noticed I'm posting in grayscale
 
2005-07-15 08:09:35 PM
corn-bread
sativo - Wow. You've evolved a thumb AND html knowledge.

Yeah.. made with notepad is my motto, but its nice to see I am moving up on the timeline... pretty soon I might get to now... gotta have goals though
 
2005-07-15 08:09:43 PM
Shattersoul does not like the HA HA! Cliche. He posts the HA HA! Cliche to tell us this. We all know what this means. No one should use the cliche anymore. Certainly not in every single thread, for the next week or longer. To do so would annoy shattersoul, and surely you don't want to do that.
 
2005-07-15 08:09:43 PM
The people cheering the "news" that Mr. Rove learned the name of Ms. Plame from Mr. Novak must be of the same mindset of the people that celebrated when Mr. O.J. Simpson was found not guilty.
 
2005-07-15 08:10:04 PM
My dear Farkers that continue to support this administration;

You are always free to admit that you are wrong. I assure you that I will not "rub it in," as the kids like to say, if you choose to come to reality and publicly admit so.

Should you eventually rip yourself from the bonds of Stockholm Syndrome, I will gladly welcome you back to civilized society.

Yours truly,

gameshowhost
 
2005-07-15 08:10:30 PM
sativo

I can't remember the last thread where democratic members of fark were actually kind and appreciative of republican views. This story will play out and it will be yet another reason that attacks from both sides of the aisle are futile and only make the losing side look bad. Until then, I will keep my gas can can ready!



When Republicans stop defending to the death people of such low moral character, then maybe there will be a reasonable discussion.

/O'Reilly went down.
//Rush went down.
///Sean Hannity is going to get caught with a 9 year old.
////ANYONE that conservative has a major skeleton in thier closet. This goes for ANYONE who is THAT far right.
 
2005-07-15 08:10:38 PM
I love how the response from the right seems to be "Oh thank god there's an obscure way I can imagine that Rove can spin this so that he's found legally not responsible."

ETHICS, people. Even if he's found legally not guilty, do you honestly believe he's of a high enough ethical caliber to be the shadow president?

Yeah, he might be able to weasel a not guilty verdict out of this, do you still trust him? Answer that after you hand OJ a knife and ask him to drop your kid off at Michael Jackson's house.
 
2005-07-15 08:11:18 PM


Not that Novak is any 'wonderboy'.


no no, 'waterboy', as in "he carries water for any Republican"
 
2005-07-15 08:11:31 PM
moops

Nice, but drag the lettering out a little or re-center it on the right side. It will look better...
 
2005-07-15 08:12:48 PM
 
2005-07-15 08:13:04 PM
dubdub
I'm proud of my Penis Gourd
/find your 3D glasses people


Dude, making fun of the name "penis gourd" is staunchly encouraged, true, but we don't want to see someone actually wearing it, much less have it jutting out at us from the screen! :P
 
2005-07-15 08:13:05 PM
Has no one mentioned that Rove initiated neither the call to Cooper nor the call to Novak? Also, Rove brought up the subject of Wilson in neither of those converstations. Kind of strange for a guy bent on revenge, no?

Ya'll got absolutely zip here. Nothing. You are free to continue beating your heads against a wall.
 
2005-07-15 08:13:29 PM
Would Jesus have lied about nuclear proliferation?
 
2005-07-15 08:13:40 PM
oh dang, thread's been Godwin'd

thanks moops :(
 
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