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(The Iowa Channel.com)   Kansas professor spends $1000 contesting a $45 speeding ticket   (theiowachannel.com ) divider line
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11793 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jul 2005 at 9:13 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-12 09:57:30 PM  
GhostFish:

Living in Orlando, Florida for 6 years I have never once seen a cop that wasn't speeding.

I often see the opposite. The police go 55 in a 65 zone. Then, all of the cars are afraid to pass the officer. Traffic gets tied up. I assume the cop is laughing in the car, but I have never been able to get close enough to see.
 
2005-07-12 09:58:08 PM  
Last time I got pulled over by a cop he lied to me about just about everything... it's a long story but basically he claimed he paced me for some distance - I think 1/3 of a mile - at 73 MPH in a 55 zone and wrote me a ticket for same. Truth was it was a 65 zone, I was going about 60, and asshat cop was gaining on me from the moment I spotted him in my mirrors - he was flying like a bat out of hell (I estimate at least 90 MPH) and I spotted him a good ways back, and actually moved over to let him by (traffic was heavy, I was in the passing lane stuck behind someone which is why I know I was only doing 60) before he pulled me over. So I think it's very likely that the prof feels he's justified and I applaud him for having principle. Only good news is that I went to court to fight my ticket and the cop didn't show either time (yeah, the first time I went the judge refused to dismiss the ticket too. What a farkin' racket.)

I'm sure there's good, conscientious traffic cops out there but I can't remember ever meeting one. Most of them drive like complete dicks too, always cutting people off, never signaling, and always the fastest cars on the road, because who's going to stand up to them?
 
2005-07-12 10:00:10 PM  
M-G:

One cop I know also uses a small tape recorder for any interactions while on duty. That way when someone tried to fight back by claiming he was impolite, sexually harassing, or whatever, he can simply provide his audio tape.

So does the cop still bring the tape out if he's the one being an asshole, or does he use it only when it benefits him?
 
2005-07-12 10:01:13 PM  
i really enjoyed angry teacher's story... i'm a teacher too, so my natural curiosity caused me once to ask an officer how one could become a courtroom artist (i like to draw too...). they searched the car, and never found the drugs! but the bastards arrested us anyways for paraphernalia. (not memorabilia...) now i find that being kind and empathetic (but firm) can usually get you out of a ticket (at least for minor stuff like speeding)(well, i'm white too...). but if you're stoned as hell, it's better not to say much of anything at all...
 
2005-07-12 10:03:08 PM  
Don't waste your breath (and dig a deeper hole) by arguing with the cop.... if he's an asshat he's probably looking for a "fight" (some of them are like that... especially if you happen to be young, black, drunk, old, white or sober ... or any combination of those) so save your logic for the judge, where you stand a chance...

/or just shoot your way out of the traffic stop
//har har... just kidding
 
2005-07-12 10:03:37 PM  
VisualLingo

I don't know where you are located or if your state offers this, but in Florida if you get a minor ticket you can usually take some cheesy podunk online class that involves leaving your browser open for X amount of hours in Y minute intervals and after a relatively low fee you can get the problem annulled.
 
2005-07-12 10:05:25 PM  
MAKE IT A LAW!

(a) No speed limit shall be set to exceed, to the nearest five mile per hour increment, the 85 percentile speed of free flowing traffic.

(b) No speed limit shall be set below, to the nearest five mile per hour increment, the 67 percentile speed of free flowing traffic.
 
2005-07-12 10:05:57 PM  
M-G:

One cop I know also uses a small tape recorder for any interactions while on duty. That way when someone tried to fight back by claiming he was impolite, sexually harassing, or whatever, he can simply provide his audio tape.

Maybe what I've learned about this subject from TV is wrong (and it probably is in some ways at least), but I was under the impression that audio tapes weren't admissible as evidence.
 
2005-07-12 10:05:59 PM  
paygun

what mekkab said. you don't have any rights until you get to court. Be nice and take the ticket and be glad to get away in one piece.

That's right, fear the people who are supposed to be protecting you. Bow like a good little subject and thank the tender mercies of your nearest tin dictator that he allows you to live.

Go back to sleep, your government has everything under control.

[image from butik.pl too old to be available]
 
2005-07-12 10:08:05 PM  
I also believe speed limits are for revenue.

I did truck driving for a while (survivor job...) and some states have two speed limits, one for cars, one for trucks (usually lower by 10 mph).

This makes ALL the trucks rolling roadblcks, forcing cars to change lanes to pass them. This is safer?

Also, I had to take extra written tests, extra driving instruction, and an extra driving test. Then I had to co-drive because no company would employ a green driver.

Yet a 16 year old can get his licence, then hop into a pickup truck with a 25 foot fifth-wheel camper and go 10 mph faster that I could.

Ohio has really nice toll highways, straight, flat, etc. Yet the truck speed lmit is 55. Cross into Pennsylvania, where the road is winding with hills, and the speed limit is 65 for all vehicles.

Finally, in the states where the speed limit is 65 or higher, the construction speed limit is usually 10-15 mph lower. Which makes the construction speed limit equal or higher than the normal speed limit in other states.

Sigh.....
 
2005-07-12 10:11:54 PM  
LeftCoast_eh:

I did truck driving for a while (survivor job...) and some states have two speed limits, one for cars, one for trucks (usually lower by 10 mph).


Makes sense. Doesn't having such a greater mass dictate that it would take more work for your truck to slow down from the same speed as a much smaller car?
 
2005-07-12 10:19:03 PM  
Pokey_Underwood

You really do not have a clue. I was recently ticketed by an officer while driving through Indianapolis. It was 70 in a 50, but I was not going that fast. So, I ask to see the radar gun. He says, "um... I clocked you with my certified speedometer." Being a FDA Quality Assurance Engineer I quickly asked, "certified by what standard?" He ignored me and walked off.
Got lawyer and had ticket completely dismissed. Cops suck dick, and anyone who thinks otherwise, sucks dick too. Just my opinion I guess.
 
2005-07-12 10:23:43 PM  
Look i want you all to listen up:
in the USA constitution (different from what we practice today, but still applies)
As a sovereign citizen you "have the right to travel freely by what ever means available." Now why i mention this is because when you went to the DMV to get your license that was your first mistake. by signing a contract a.k.a. drivers license with your signature you have agreed to the terms of said contract. but the constitution freely states you have the right to travel freely and unabridged; did horse & carriage drivers have to take a formal test to drive and then enter into a contract in which you agreed to terms hat you do not fully understand: NO.
Now case in point:
I have signed my license but above my signature i wrote in "UCC1-207 WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
NOW WHAT I DID THERE IS RESERVE MY RIGHTS VIA UNIVERSAL COMMERCIAL CODE. Yes. I said COMMERCIAL, you must realize that a drivers license is a commercial contract - As in you drive your car to deliver goods or transport services. Well I'm for one doing nether when i drive to 7-11 to get some beer for me personally to drink at my home. So by entering into that contract; by signing your license; you are bound to such said laws and regulations. But that is not freely and unabridged travel as the constitution for the U.S.A. clearly sets forth. now your going to think that I'm an @sshole but i have to say.....
You've all been duped, you are and forever will be a commercial product of the U.S (notice i did not say U.S.A.) unless you spend less time being distracted by the media and more time securing you unalienable rights. So start with your social security number; rescind that contract and become a Sovereign citizen not a federal 9 digit number a.k.a. "barcode" secondly renew your drivers license and reserve your rights as i mentioned above and you will truly be free, be accountable for your actions and do unto others as you want done to you. i believe in god but even a godless man could agree to those terms.

http://www.suijuris.net/
 
2005-07-12 10:25:22 PM  
I have somehow managed to talk my way out of 2 DWIs in the past 10 years. One was after I had actually been taken downtown and booked.

The best advice I can give is be nice as you can possibly be when you get pulled over. When they come up to the window, have your hands at 10 and 2. Wait till they ask before you start digging for your license and registration. You want as much talking time as possible and make them comfortable as possible. Be the cop's new best friend. Kiss as much ass as you can and say 'sir' alot.

I can only guess any sort of negativity from you will come back 10X as hard.

/lucky bastard
 
2005-07-12 10:25:23 PM  
GhostFish

LeftCoast_eh:

I did truck driving for a while (survivor job...) and some states have two speed limits, one for cars, one for trucks (usually lower by 10 mph).



Makes sense. Doesn't having such a greater mass dictate that it would take more work for your truck to slow down from the same speed as a much smaller car?

Actually, stopping a truck doesn't require any work, instead it releases energy that can be used to do work. Of course, that work usually amounts to warming up the brake linings above the ambient temperature.
 
2005-07-12 10:34:30 PM  
You guys are pathetic.

On one hand, you complain that speed limits are there only for revenue for the local PD's, but then you complain about gas being $60 barrel too!

Wisen up. Obey the law. Does everyone remember why all the speed limits used to be 55!?
 
2005-07-12 10:43:33 PM  
That's nothing. Bill Gates once had his lawyers contest a stop sign violation. They eventually won because they measured the sign and found that it was a few inches below standard height, so therefore not a legal stop sign. For some people it's the principle that matters, not the money, but sometime they let the "I must always be right" principle get in the way of the "it really doesn't f*cking matter" principle.
 
2005-07-12 10:48:01 PM  
RE: 2005-07-12 10:23:43 PM bpennington

I didn't realize they let you access fark from the Asylum's computers ...

I swear, hearing all these stories makes me think I should have a tape recorder in my car at all times.
 
2005-07-12 10:56:55 PM  
I thought I heard that in California, if they hit you with radar, they have to be ready to show you the radar or they can't ticket you. Any truth to this?

Don't know about Cali state laws. My stepdad is a cop, we've talked about this. If you weren't speeding and ask the cop to see the radar gun, and he refuses, that's some pretty good evidence on your part. You can tell the court you weren't speeding and the officer refused to show you the gun. The other good thing about this tactic is that sometimes cops will clear their radar gun after reading you and then even if you were speeding, you can fight it with that "evidence."

But don't speed, then you probably won't have to worry about it.
 
2005-07-12 10:58:18 PM  
Left work at 10pm and went to pull out of the parking lot. A car was a distance down the road i could either wait 20-30 seconds for the car to go by or just leave briskly, I left briskly. I did NOT get on bad(95 ford escort get on it, haha). I sped up to 55 about 50-100yds before the end of the 45 zone. Didn't notice the cop behind be but was aware there was the car I pulled in front of. I set my cruise the cop followed me for a couple miles then the lights came on. I pulled over, put the parking lights on, flashers, rolled down the window ol hands on the steering wheel. He walks up first words "Do you have any F-ing idea how fast you were going back there". I respond 45 then i sped up to the limit. He said u sped up to 55 in the 45. He used Fark around 25 times. He also said you also cut me off i should ticket you for that too with bastard tacked on the end. He keeps going off and Im just sitting there in awe. I keep my reg in my visor and provided it when asked. He came back with the ticket and said have a good night and slow the F down. I said "You too officer and I'll see you in court, Good Night". He walked away quickly and he never showed and it was thrown out. My opinion of the law dropped significantly after that.
 
2005-07-12 11:02:38 PM  
PLEASE CHANGE THE TAG TO "HERO"
 
2005-07-12 11:03:30 PM  
Being both an engineer and a smart@ss... I've often considered that, if ever pulled over for speeding, I'd argue the thing based on the likely lack of training of the officer, probable fact that the radar gun hadn't been calibrated and certified properly, and the likely event that, if there were other cars on the road, that the officer could have received ghost signals and returns from other vehicles, thus giving an incorrect speed..

I've got a bunch of other arguments lined up if I ever need them. I've always wondered if arguing science, engineering, and the concept of calibrating measurement equipment to a certified standard would work? I guess it would depend on if the judge was willing to listen to a couple of hours of scientific discussion and theory...

I was pulled over once by a cop standing in the middle of the road in a school zone. He asked me if I knew how fast I was going, I told him "no, I wasn't looking". I knew he didn't have a radar gun, or even a stop watch, so unless I admitted to going 28 in a 25 he couldn't do a thing. He got mad and kept trying to get me to tell him a speed (presumably thinking that he could write me up on something). I steadfastly maintained that I hadn't looked at my speedometer, but was matching the speed of the cars in front of me. I included that I didn't look down as I felt it unsafe in such heavy traffic to look down when I should have been watching the car in front of me. He finally let me go with a verbal warning... Oooh a VERBAL warning! That really taught me my lesson... ;-)
 
2005-07-12 11:03:41 PM  
zhinz1-
that is up to you i record video to my laptop via a usb cam but that only when the "Asylum" lets me out.Hey i don't care if you believe me i've researched this for 2-3 years and all i know is that it got me out of parking tickets, a DUI, 2 driving while suspended tickets. Why do you think they try to get me "driving while suspended" but they could not as i reserved my right to travel freely. Hey again i do not give a hoot discover for yourselves what are Rights and what are Privileges meanwhile i'll be wearing my tin foil hat.
 
2005-07-12 11:03:43 PM  
Makes perfect sense, when I was 18 I got a ticket and my insurance went up two grand for three years--$1k would have been a bargain.

Rural interstate speed limits for cars out here in the west are stupid anyways. What exactly am I going to hit in the middle of the Mojave? Tumbleweed?
 
2005-07-12 11:04:37 PM  
this professor was once the head of the Univ. of Kansas
computer science dept. a deptmentment so out of touch with reality that when i started there in 1983 they were still teaching Fortran and Pascal programming as an intro to c.s. class. They had a philosophy that only programmers should use computers. apple IIc was just a toy

He eventully got into major disputes with other prof in his dept. and with univ. admin. the final upshot is that the independent dept of C.S. was absorbed into the School of Engineering.
 
2005-07-12 11:13:49 PM  
M.C.PeePants:

Wisen up. Obey the law. Does everyone remember why all the speed limits used to be 55!?


Instead of trying to control gas consumption by indirect methods (e.g., artificially low speed limits, CAFE regulations), we should just raise the gasoline taxes.

Higher prices = lower consumption.

Indirect methods always have unintended consequences. Like when Ford was building their Crown Vics with higher imported content, so that for CAFE purposes they would be counted as import cars.

Pokey_Underwood:

Jeebus folks, you ran a red light. Just pay the frigging fine and be on your way.

You're an idiot. I recently got a BS ticket for running a red light. I went back to the intersection to look around, and discovered that the cop couldn't even see the traffic lights from where they had been parked. What's more, it would be flat out impossible to watch the traffic lights and also the entrance to the intersection from where he was parked.

So I went to court with ground-level photography and overhead photography and a schematic of the intersection. (And yes, I put a paragraph on the back of each one, just in case the judge had a sense of humor. No circles and arrows, though.)

The judge was totally cool, the cops were okay (although fuzzy on some of the details), and the city prosecutor was a DFCW. I was the only one in the courtroom who knew the legal definition of an intersection (having recently checked the municipal code).

It was closer than it should have been. Next time, I will take video (instead of snapshots) or get a lawyer. If I'd had a lawyer he would have farking torn the cops and the city prosecutor apart.
 
2005-07-12 11:14:17 PM  
right guys because the only expense you have when you get a ticket is the fine
 
2005-07-12 11:18:10 PM  
oh, and i had the easiest time contesting a ticket, ever.

got a ticket across state lines for $189 (i know, huh? I was only doing 78 in a 65)

anyways

i sent the ticket back marked not guilty, cuz i was broke, and i got a letter back saying all charges were dropped. didnt even have to go to court.
 
2005-07-12 11:18:14 PM  
The other day I got pulled over after pulling onto a street in front of a cop. I saw it was a cop, pulled out, and slowly climbed up to speed. I stopped at about 43, in a 45, knowing the cop was right behind me. Its about 12:50 at night, I'm 17 and leaving the beach with a few friends where we had been sitting around and talking. The cop rides my ass for a while, and finally turns his lights on. He shows up at my window, shines his flashlight in my face and my passengers. Apparently I was doing 60 in a 45 and driving erratically... yet I had noticed it was a cop before I even pulled out, and I'm not dumb enough to speed with a cop 10 feet behind my car. That and I drive a Geo Tracker with 85 horsepower, and it takes about 18 seconds to reach 60 mph... luckily he got called away by the dispatcher, who he argued with in front of me, which I thought was funny. I got away, but I would have been farking pissed if I had to deal with a ridiculous ticket like that, seeing as I am 17 and it would absolutely destroy my insurance premiums, which I have to pay myself.
 
2005-07-12 11:26:06 PM  
No surprise he's a computer science professor. Being anal retentive is par for the course.
 
2005-07-12 11:33:14 PM  
Rock Chalk Jayhawk K U
/not sure
 
2005-07-12 11:40:09 PM  
Doesn't having such a greater mass dictate that it would take more work for your truck to slow down from the same speed as a much smaller car?

Um yes, but then the truck could travel at 30mph too. For a car moving 10mph faster, the truck is a moving road block. So now the car must change lanes, usually needing to merge with other traffic, then it changes back, almost always well within my stopping zone (which is 4-5 times longer than a car). It all spells potential problems.

When the traffic is all moving at the same speed, all those problems pretty well go away.

Also, distance travelled is money in long-haul trucking. You get paid by the mile. If the speed limit is 50, and you get $1 per mile, then you get $50/hr. If the limit is 65mph, then the hourly rate becomes $65.

And fuel, insurance, maintenance, and food while on the road, all come out of that hourly rate. Insurance alone eats up over $800 per month (in BC, Canada).

Glad I am not doing it anymore, and am back in s/w development.
 
2005-07-12 11:50:58 PM  
john kerry rides an $8k bike and he's a war hero. this guy is a patriot.
 
2005-07-12 11:54:45 PM  
Come on now. It's the principle of being a dumbass.
 
2005-07-13 12:06:51 AM  
Atario:

"That's right, fear the people who are supposed to be protecting you."

I do fear them, but they're not there to protect me.
 
2005-07-13 12:16:21 AM  
First off in this situation it is clearly the PRINCIPAL of the matter and obviously not the MONEY. That classfies it as pretty stupid in my opinion. Professor's don't make that farking much...unless they're stripping like the Teacher in Varsity Blues (sorry it was on TV tonight).

Second off, living in Texas and having to deal with all the back wood redneck tobacco chewing sister farking hicks I don't have much respect for cops period.
Especially when one being a smartass asks you if he's arrested you before, and you can't say anything cuz he's the kind that'll run you in for crossing your farking eyes wrong at him...

I'm not mad...really :-)
 
2005-07-13 12:22:04 AM  
As soon as there is no violent crime and no murder, then we should have traffic enforcement. Till then, enforce your own laws. Buy the biggest gun you can, and load it with armor penetration rounds. Hell, my wife carries a 9 mm Glock model 19 loaded with Czech Paras. Even the odds... make sure you can do them just like they can do you. No more cop problems. Screw the fuzz.
/thinks the world would be a better place to live if police jobs were very high paying.
//also thinks the world would better if police depts would hire the best and the brightest not the mediocre.
 
2005-07-13 12:22:54 AM  
oh yeah and poster should have used HERO tag. doofus.
 
2005-07-13 12:25:58 AM  
bpennington
in the USA constitution (different from what we practice today, but still applies)As a sovereign citizen you "have the right to travel freely by what ever means available."

i wrote in "UCC1-207 WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
NOW WHAT I DID THERE IS RESERVE MY RIGHTS VIA UNIVERSAL COMMERCIAL CODE

Hey i don't care if you believe me i've researched this for 2-3 years and all i know is that it got me out of parking tickets, a DUI, 2 driving while suspended tickets


Oh, my. And to think I almost went to bed.

Well, let's see.

1) You're going to have to show me where in the Constitution the words "have the right to travel freely by what ever means available." appear. 3 years of law school and 30 years of practice haven't brought that to my attention.

2) You'd think that researching for 2-3 years would have taught you that it's the Uniform Commercial Code rather than the "Universal Commercial Code." On the other hand, you might want to stick with with "Universal," because maybe somewhere in the universe your version of the law would hold true.

3. There is no Section 1-207 in the Uniform Commercial Code. See: http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/1/

4. There is a Section 1-207 (RCW 62A.1-207) in the State of Washington, but that's hardly "Universal."

5. As to your allegedly beating the driving while suspended tickets, if your license has been suspended, maybe your theory isn't working all that well.

But thanks for the laughs.
 
2005-07-13 12:34:34 AM  
[image from fotosearch.com too old to be available]

[image from fotosearch.com too old to be available]

[image from fotosearch.com too old to be available]

[image from fotosearch.com too old to be available]

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2005-07-13 01:20:23 AM  
Obviously he isnt a Math Professor.

Seriously though, if I had the money I would have fought it too.
 
2005-07-13 01:25:36 AM  
Enemyplanet

I've always wondered if arguing science, engineering, and the concept of calibrating measurement equipment to a certified standard would work?

A story I heard shortly after law school. There was a very successful personal injury attorney in Kansas who had a buddy get a dui. The machine used to test the BAC was the Intoxilizer 5000. The attorney hired the inventor of the machine to testify that it wasn't accurate enough to state that this particular defendant was over the legal limit. He walked.

/The State of Kansas paid me to try a case where the defendant ran two stop signs on moped.
 
2005-07-13 01:25:57 AM  
he is a hero. I got a bullshiat ticket a few years ago (it involved going thru a yellow light that turned yellow the moment I hit the intersection, and having a cop scream at me about running a red and almost causing multiple accidents) that I very nearly hired a lawyer and fought. I still wish I had, but I let the idea of taking time off work and the cost stop me. Sure explaining the situation in writing got the ticket dropped to 1/3rd the original cost. But I still was fined for something I was completely innocent of.

Sadly though I probably would have lost in court because it was my word against a police officers.
 
2005-07-13 01:37:58 AM  
Every single one of you are total morans. What you do is, you BECOME A COP. THen you can drive as fast as you want, you get to carry a gun AND A TASER. Hell, they even give you a car to drive, and some money every month. No one gives you any lip and you can be the biggest dickhead evar. It's the shiat, I'm tellin ya.
 
2005-07-13 01:45:34 AM  
I've only ever gotten stopped by a cop once in 25+ years of driving.

I was driving a borrowed car that a lesbian couple owned. It had one of those goofy-assed 'Rainbow'/queermo stickers on the back bumper.

I got a bullshiat ticket for an illegal lane change, and got called faggot, buttpirate, queer, and cocksucker by the cop who wrote it.

He took my driver's license, and when I got it back after paying the ticket I discovered he had stapled through the eyes of my picture and crossed out the Organ Donor info on the back.

I feel SOOOOOO safe having the protection of the Chicago Police Department..... way too many cops are just gangbangers who're too pussy-assed to join a REAL gang, so they get a badge and a gun instead.
 
2005-07-13 02:25:32 AM  
apiarist- i guess you should have gone to bed you are complete;ly correct on the "universal" vs. "uniform" i'm sorry i was in a hurry.
but i think that i misguided you on the UCC1-207
UCC1-207 has been changed this was effected recently but the code still applies
and now for the constitution
here is a link for case history
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm
NOW YOU SAID THAT YOU STUDIED LAW FOR HOW LONG
NOW WHATS SUCKS IS I HAVE TO BE SOMWHAT BRIEF IN MY EXPLANATION DUE TO THE FACT I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU SAY. MY POINT TO YOU NOW IS I ONLY KNOW WHAT HAS WORKED FOR ME, AND AS FOR THE DUI I GOT I WANT TO POINT OUT I BLEW A .067 SO IN MY STATE .08 IS LEGALY DRUNK BUT THEY STILL CHARGED ME ANYWAY.
 
2005-07-13 02:45:50 AM  
My use of WITHOUT PREJUDICE UCC 1-207 above my signature on a document indicates that I have exercised the REMEDY provided for me in the uniform commercial code in Book 1, Section 207, whereby I may preserve my common law right not to be compelled to perform under any contract or commercial agreement that I have not entered into knowingly, voluntarily, and intentionally, and, that reservation serves notice upon all administrative agencies of government, whether national, state or local, that I do not and will not accept the liability associated with the COMPELLED BENEFIT of any unrevealed commercial agreement. My explicit reservation of rights also has served notice upon all agencies of government that they are ALL LIMITED TO PROCEEDING AGAINST ME ONLY IN HARMONY WITH THE COMMON LAW. My valid reservation of rights has preserved all my rights and PREVENTED THE LOSS OF ANY SUCH RIGHTS by application of the concepts of waiver or estoppel.
 
2005-07-13 03:00:04 AM  
apiarist-
ahh, the revised code is now per UCC 1-308 "with reservation of all Rights"

/i am done with my rant now, nothing to see here, please move along.
//straightening my tin foil hat
 
2005-07-13 05:06:17 AM  
bpennington
Look i want you all to listen up:
in the USA constitution (different from what we practice today, but still applies)
As a sovereign citizen you "have the right to travel freely by what ever means available."


First, I'd like to know where you find that in the constitution.

Second, cool! Who knew the constitution guaranteed me the right to fly an airplane without any training or certification! I always wanted to fly a 747 about ten feet above the treetops at top speed. Yeah, I feel sorry for people living along my flight path (especially the people who used to live in that smoking crater at the end of the flight path) but hey, Constitution says it's OK.

And "by any means available"? My neighbor's Cadillac is available if I steal it. Maybe I should exercise my constitutional rights to drive to work in style!

And, you know, when I was five my parents wouldn't let me drive the car. Little did I know they were stomping on my Constitutional rights!

did horse & carriage drivers have to take a formal test to drive and then enter into a contract in which you agreed to terms hat you do not fully understand: NO.


Well, you can always still use the horse and carriage.
 
2005-07-13 07:11:14 AM  
bpennington

Thanks for directing me to the nutjob website on which you base your constitutional interpretation.

Interestingly enough, that site also doesn't contain the quote you say was taken from the Constitution.

However, I didn't get too far before I discovered that the website also misstated the words of the Constitution in what purported to be a direct quote.
From the site (http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm):

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof;...shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or laws of any State to the Contrary not one word withstanding."

From the Constitution:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; . . . shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Here's a hint. If you want to quote the Constitution, then read the Constitution and quote it. Don't just assume that some other nutcase has done your job for you.

Did you notice that, although your website purports to quote a dozen cases, not one of them stands for your central proposition that the state has no right to license drivers?
 
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