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(eMediaWire)   Toronto to hold UFO conference. Plans on demanding full government disclosure of UFO information, just like every other UFO convention for the last three decades   (emediawire.com) divider line 146
    More: Obvious  
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1462 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2005 at 1:10 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



146 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2005-07-09 10:43:01 AM  
I was all giddy when The Disclosure Project came around...then poof, nothing came of it
/sad
 
2005-07-09 10:45:27 AM  
So.....the Canadian government knows something too??

/thats why they filmed the x-files there....
/dons tin foil hat
 
2005-07-09 10:45:32 AM  
Are they going to demand the Canadian Government give full disclosure? I imagine it will be something like "There's nothing to report. Have another beer, eh?"
 
2005-07-09 11:38:28 AM  
[image from ualberta.ca too old to be available]

oh, fark me.
 
2005-07-09 11:47:55 AM  
[image from img133.imageshack.us too old to be available]

/This means something
//I don't know what
///Not Canadian
 
2005-07-09 01:16:06 PM  
I think they should stop begging for gov't info and find out what the government knows on their own. They could break into the "Area 51" of Canada. If there are enough of them, a few will make it in when the guards run out of bullets.

/i'm bored
 
2005-07-09 01:17:09 PM  
Phil Mogg surrenders.
 
2005-07-09 01:33:18 PM  
Yet, at the same time... a lot of South American countries/governments are pretty open about the UFO phenomenon...

Hell, there was a HUGE FLEET OF UFO's that flew over Mexico City a few weeks ago. THOUSANDS witnessed this. Some even produced video of it...

Move along folks, NOTHING to see here.
 
2005-07-09 01:37:52 PM  
Some interesting links to catch everyone up to where this kind of discussion is at, before the flame wars begin.

Project Blue Book, the government's official inquiry into the "UFO phenomenon", with 701 cases classified as "unexplained".

The Alcubierre warp drive, a theoretical means of going faster than light (FTL). This idea has had some fallout and still is in active discussion, check out the modification to reduce the total theoretical energy requirements, another take on the idea, and some discussion.

And finally, going a little far-out here, something I discovered a little while back, a really bizarre transcript of a supposed written conversation between a "far-foreigner" and some UFO group. Interesting ideas in there, even if it's unprovable to be true. (At least, until some of the predictions made in it are proved.) It also makes specific mention of "large black silent triangular craft" which there have been a plethora of sightings of since the supposed dates of this interchange. ::dons tinfoil hat::

Lastly, a personal rant. If you ever find yourself saying "x is impossible", please rephrase as "we have not yet figured out a way to show that x is possible, given what we know now." Too many people have historically been proven wrong by saying "x is impossible." That is all ;)
 
2005-07-09 01:40:05 PM  
Those UFO's in purplesmoke420's video look like Balloons, June 14th, isn't that around High School graduation time?

I thought so.
 
2005-07-09 01:41:43 PM  
Hydrostatic_Equilibrium

Go down to Mexico City - I'm sure plenty of people will talk to you about their experiences.
 
2005-07-09 01:44:04 PM  
Oh, forgot. I love to chat about this stuff. I have a specific curiosity about the psychology of "an event that challenges your worldview", no matter what form that takes. Fact is that people will go so far as kill to protect their worldview (see: any religious fundamentalist), and fears about your worldview not being quite right are deep-seated. if you have any thoughts on any of this stuff, please feel free to email me (see profile).

My background: First a physics major, then CS, then psychology, specializing in perception. Dabbled in philosophy and world religion. Currently a consultant in a Big 4 firm by day, challenger of the status quo by night ;)
 
2005-07-09 01:45:17 PM  
Hydrostatic_Equilibrium

I know you're a skeptic and all - but how to you account for the fact that these "balloons" are all moving at the same speed, and in the same formation throughout? Is that possible when you release a shiatload of balloons up in to the air?

/just asking
 
2005-07-09 01:46:51 PM  
Someone films a few hundred balloons obviously floating by and this becomes evidence of UFO's. My god that is unbelieveably pathetic.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 01:48:51 PM  
1) The only two things the government is likely to have learned about UFOs are jack and shiat.

2) If they do know something you don't know, they also have people who's entire job is telling you whatever you'd like in such a way that you never ever learn anything.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 01:50:11 PM  
purplesmoke420
I know you're a skeptic and all - but how to you account for the fact that these "balloons" are all moving at the same speed, and in the same formation throughout? Is that possible when you release a shiatload of balloons up in to the air?

Presumably they are all riding the same air current. I'd find it far more strange if the balloons were moving at different speeds and different directions, evidence of some mobility other than natural.
 
2005-07-09 01:50:45 PM  
purplesmoke420

regarding the link to videos of recent gigantic fleet of... somethings... in broad daylight, over mexico city...

Didn't even hear about that till now. Holy sheeit. Hello, US media? Was this reported over here?

/and i already sorta think this stuff is extraterrestrial, still shocking
//also saw War of the Worlds last night
///still think they're slowly trying to desensitize us to the idea
 
2005-07-09 01:51:26 PM  
purplesmoke420, that's some awesome footage of a bunch of balloons!

The parts I particularly like are the quotes from the article saying: ...the 'balloon' explanation was quickly discarded because of the patterns flown by the whole mass of UFOs, and it's synchronyzed flight path - a classic feature of a UFO flotilla. "Synchronized flight path" smacks heavily of something known as "wind".

And here's another: Pedro Avila made an analysis of a zoomed frame of one object and confirmed it had no cord attached and its shape was not that of a common balloon.

What is the shape of a "common balloon?" Why, it would be:...metallic, sphere shaped and shinning in the sun.(sic - from earlier in the text).
 
2005-07-09 01:54:04 PM  
Wait... I take it all back. Aliens who obviously have never desired to be discovered, decide to fly by in broad daylight over the most populated city in the world. Makes perfect sense to me now. I am a believer. I even know where some of the fleet are hiding out. I saw a bunch of them disguised as mylar balloons at Party City a few weeks ago. I heard they are so advanced that the only thing that will bring their ship down is a BB from a Daisy 881.
 
2005-07-09 01:54:14 PM  
re: balloons-

yeah, was this ruled out? as well as anything else it might be? i guess i just figured the mexican media would have ruled that sort of simple explanation out. wouldn't that be a huge risk for the media, to report on this and then find out it actually was a bunch of silver helium balloons, unless they were to verify first?

/feels gullible anyway, oh well
 
2005-07-09 01:55:48 PM  
DrinkDifferent

Holy sheeit. Hello, US media? Was this reported over here?

Generally, a cluster of helium balloons isn't considered newsworthy, unless it's a really, really slow news day.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 01:56:48 PM  
DrinkDifferent

yeah, was this ruled out? as well as anything else it might be? i guess i just figured the mexican media would have ruled that sort of simple explanation out. wouldn't that be a huge risk for the media, to report on this and then find out it actually was a bunch of silver helium balloons, unless they were to verify first?

Media make ridiculous assertions worldwide and are called on them daily. I've yet to see them brought to their knees by it.

And that is pretty gullible, to assume an unidentified object in the sky means aliens, no offense. Even if it isn't balloons, there must be a great many far more likely explanations.
 
2005-07-09 01:57:47 PM  
G2V

Presumably they are all riding the same air current.

So, all of these ballons - the many thousands of them, are all on the same current - yet they stay EXACTLY the same formation as they fly over. Seriously, you'd think that there would be an odd gust of wind here and there that would at least change the formation of the balloons a little bit. What about the fact that none of these "balloons" have popped?

If anything, someone should release a whole bunch of balloons in to the air and see if they can reproduce this formation.
 
2005-07-09 01:59:14 PM  
I want to believe.

Where's that pic?
 
G2V
2005-07-09 02:03:01 PM  
plesmoke420

So, all of these ballons - the many thousands of them, are all on the same current - yet they stay EXACTLY the same formation as they fly over. Seriously, you'd think that there would be an odd gust of wind here and there that would at least change the formation of the balloons a little bit. What about the fact that none of these "balloons" have popped?


What do you think causes wind to gust in different directions? I'd say primary causes are terrain and obstacles, neither of which is highly prominent in the sky. Ever watch a cloud? It all tends to move the same direction, not randomly rip itself apart in various angles. Ever watch plane vapor trails? They tend to spread out in the same pattern, not disorganize into lots of jagged little lines.

What are you expecting to pop the balloons? Bumblebees?

As far as "Exactly" and "none" I haven't seen the video, but I have my doubts as to the analytical prowress of anyone who assumes "White object = alien", none of those pictures depict the same "formation" to me, and frankly none of them depict a "Formation" at all, unless formation means "random grouping," are we supposed to assume the aliens decided to make their first grand impression by showing us their flight school rejects?
 
2005-07-09 02:03:34 PM  
purplesmoke420

So, all of these ballons - the many thousands of them...

Umm, the "almost 40 objects" stated in the "article" don't exactly make "many thousands". And, from what I saw, they didn't stay in an exact formation. They move in relation to each other, behaving exactly like balloons would.

I hereby invite you to Albuquerque to watch how many hundreds of balloons fly together.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 02:07:36 PM  
I have to agree with Yossarian Lives!

I just watched the "Extended home video footage." Pick out any group of balloons that are close together and watch, they don't remain exactly the same, they move around, exactly as nonuniform objects would that are all obeying a prevailing wind current.
 
2005-07-09 02:13:20 PM  
sullyman

Wait... I take it all back. Aliens who obviously have never desired to be discovered, decide to fly by in broad daylight over the most populated city in the world. Makes perfect sense to me now. I am a believer.

If you were an alien race - flew millions of light years through space and came upon a planet inhabited with life forms that were at a turning point of their civilization - a point in which they could soon be traveling/conquering the stars themselves - why WOULDN'T you make yourself known to them?

Well - IMO - If they were to just come down and say "TA-DA! HERE WE ARE!!" Guess what? People would freak the fark out! People would launch nukes at eachother, and it would be the end of civilization as we knew it.

Now, instead - the aliens just let us GRADUALLY know that they exist, without fully giving themselves away... little by little - year after year, more of the inhabitants of Earth would start thinking: "Hey, perhaps we aren't the only 'intelligent' lifeform out there" - so they would probably be more willing to accept space alients if they came down and finally made their announcement.

This is why I think aliens haven't come down and already said "hello".

But then again, maybe they're just a bunch of prankster's messin' with our heads... maybe THEY released the balloons.

-ok now i'm just sounding crazy
 
2005-07-09 02:14:30 PM  
ok, the only definitive evidence here would be whether the local airport got the objects on radar- I really doubt that balloons would show up as pings.

Meanwhile, everyone is correct regarding trying to let go of a bunch of silver helium balloons and seeing if they move similarly.

Assumption of ET craft is easy if you think "they" might already be here ;) (I've heard firsthand accounts from reluctant storytellers who only told me because they felt I was open-minded- if you are too skeptical, then nobody's going to tell you shiate for fear of ridicule/dismissal, remember that)
 
2005-07-09 02:21:16 PM  
DrinkDifferent

I've heard firsthand accounts from reluctant storytellers who only told me because they felt I was open-minded

Or because they felt you were gullible! ;)

Personally, I think it's naive to think that we are the ONLY 'intelligent' life out there.
 
2005-07-09 02:22:13 PM  
purplesmoke420

If balloons get far enough away it would seem they kept the same formation. And for moving at the same speed, well, they are pretty much just going up and with the wind.

Funny how just this ONE video was posted, and only a short time was covered. This was duing some public ceremony, so people were bound to have video cameras around.

They pretty much look like balloons to me.
 
2005-07-09 02:23:43 PM  
DrinkDifferent

Well, as someone once said, it takes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You're right; if someone is predisposed to believe in something, then their requirements for proof are considerably lower than someone who is skeptical.
 
2005-07-09 02:26:06 PM  
Teaches me to post without previewing. Should have been: "...as someone once said, extraordinary claims..."
 
2005-07-09 02:27:08 PM  
DrinkDifferent:

It also makes specific mention of "large black silent triangular craft" which there have been a plethora of sightings of since the supposed dates of this interchange. ::dons tinfoil hat::


Um, that Alcubierre thing, wrong, but very interestingly wrong. Also the van Den Broeck (sp?) article, again not quite but close sort of wrong. The other site with the "star lords" stuff was just nuts, though.
 
2005-07-09 02:29:47 PM  
1) The irony is that if we WERE the ONLY life in this so-huge-it's-impossible-to-imagine universe, I think it's pretty strong evidence that there's a God.

2) So you can either be a religious nut and think we're the Chosen Ones, or you can be a... paranormal nut and think we're one of, oh, 600-odd universe-wide intelligent species that are slowly trying to desensitize us to the idea that not only are we not alone, but as an additional blow to our psyche, we're not the first ones to develop the tech to travel the universe... but hey, at least it looks like they would have taken over us by now if they really wanted to, so perhaps they just want to... buy some of our unique music. ;)

3) The true skeptic/atheist should therefore think we might not be alone (along the lines of "anything that seems to hint that God exists, cannot possibly be true"), but there is no way for anyone to reach us in any reasonable amount of time due to the speed-of-light limit. That is, unless you google "Alcubierre" and start to wonder. ;)

The dark side of open-minded is gullible, but the dark side of skeptical is a distinct lack of imagination, and imagination is what drives the world forward.
 
2005-07-09 02:30:44 PM  
 
2005-07-09 02:32:08 PM  
The whole "Fleet of UFOs" takes some gulping down logical objections.

1) Mysterious objects, clearly advanced, doesn't have the sense to stay out of sight, but flies in a group over a city.
2) There is no other videos. If a fleet of UFOs were flying across my sky, I'd STEAL a video to get footage.
3) Their formation is completly random. What fleet flies like that?
 
2005-07-09 02:32:21 PM  
Yossarian Lives!

Well, as someone once said, it takes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I say that extraordinary evidence should provide for an extraordinary investigation.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 02:35:51 PM  
purplesmoke420
Or because they felt you were gullible! ;)

Personally, I think it's naive to think that we are the ONLY 'intelligent' life out there.


It probably is naive to believe that. I certainly don't. Then again I also feel it requires being naive to believe the aliens are visiting us or even interested in us.

Could aliens get to us? Sure, how can we guess the abilities of a race that could be billions of years older than us?

I try to not knock people for believing in alien visitation, even though I think it's quickly becoming reduced to "Boy who cried wolf" irrelevancy in the eyes of just about everyone.

Just the same, look at this case here. What evidence do we have that they are aliens? They're not positively identified.

I don't see anything more than that. I see a lot to discourage the idea. They don't look like they're displaying powered flight, they don't look like they are organized in any "intelligent fashion". Also, while not proof positive, we are pretty far away from everything in the universe, which just makes it more unlikely.

You may think it looks like an intelligent formation, I think it looks nothing like one.

I see no reason to consider this anything more than a mildly interesting occurance, one blown up by enthusiasts to continue the long decline of public interest in "ufo nuts".

I feel sorry for the scientists trying to get funding for finding extraterrestrial signals though.
 
2005-07-09 02:36:37 PM  
erewhon

re: FTL "wrong"ness- Hey, an "interesting" sort of wrong is certainly better than "no way no how would this be possible"- which is exactly what people thought in 1990- Which is exactly my point about nothing being very impossible, we just haven't thought of a way yet ;)

re: "other site" that I linked- Actually, what started to unnerve me about it (other than that ridiculous picture at the top) was the consistent use of "shortcut" non-English words that still were completely comprehensible by any English speaker. Never seen anything like that before or since.
 
2005-07-09 02:38:18 PM  
Oh, and it was Carl Sagan who said that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".

/RIP
//He used to be a prof at Cornell, where I went
 
2005-07-09 02:43:56 PM  
Regarding the link that started this thread...

"The recent disclosure by the Brazilian government and military that UFOs have been tracked and registered for over 50 years is part of the growing disclosure movement underway through the world."

Well, if that's true, then that's certainly interesting, at the very least.

/finally RTFA
 
2005-07-09 02:46:21 PM  
It's Occam's razor at work, people.

Which require less variables?:

1) Some hitherto unobserved phenomena, resemling balloons, amass over a mexican city (and get next to no media coverage). They are only caught on (grainy, zoomed in) video by a couple of people on.

or

2) Balloons.
 
2005-07-09 02:49:19 PM  
purplesmoke420

I say that extraordinary evidence should provide for an extraordinary investigation

But where is the extraordinary evidence? Admittedly, I don't spend a great deal of time investigating UFO claims, but in the 50-plus years of claims (using Roswell as a starting point), where is the concrete, undisputed, peer-reviewed evidence?

And speaking of Roswell, there is a case where an extraordinary investigation, specifically the Roswell Report, was launched by extraordinary claims. And after all the tax $$ spent, we learned that the "event" was caused by Project Mogul. Of course, the "want to believe" crowd disputes those findings, but again offers no extraordinary evidence. It should be much easier to prove something exists than it is to prove that thing doesn't exist.
 
2005-07-09 02:49:49 PM  
one more tidbit (I really gotta go)...

I read somewhere (unfortunately, can't find the link) that the percentage of people in the world who think we're not alone in the universe, has been going up and up for some time now.

Which could serve as evidence that there is in fact some kind of desensitization program underway.

LAST remark: I love this book. It has such a powerful idea regarding emergence of cooperation (or lack thereof) between any two entities. The basic premise is that cooperation will tend to happen, as long as there is an expected opportunity for future interaction. I use this to neutralize the fear that a more powerful entity or entities would automatically want to "take us over" simply because they can- because it might benefit them more long-term not to do so.

That is all.
 
2005-07-09 02:49:57 PM  
G2V

Then again I also feel it requires being naive to believe the aliens are visiting us or even interested in us.

Why do you feel that it is naive of people to think that aliens could be visiting us or even interested in us? Is totally out of the realm of possibility? For all we know, they are just intergalactic "explorers" or "scientists".

Look, people - I don't know if these are balloons or not. I never stated that they ARE aliens or that it is some sort of "intelligent formation". Seeing how these videos/articles that I found are in the same topic as this thread, I figured I would contribute, and see what people had to say about this.

I think a lot of people just brush off the UFO phenomena due to fear of the unknown.
 
2005-07-09 02:50:42 PM  
DrinkDifferent

Regarding the link that started this thread...

"The recent disclosure by the Brazilian government and military that UFOs have been tracked and registered for over 50 years is part of the growing disclosure movement underway through the world."


If by "disclosure" they mean the government saying "yeah, we keep all sort of weird stuff on file, including observations of stuff noone cared about enough to explain yet" then I'm not so rocked in my world view...
 
2005-07-09 02:59:48 PM  
I'm willing to grant that advanced aliens exist (somewhere), and even that they might be interested enough in us to investigate our little slice of heaven.

I will remain highly skeptical that they are able to cross the cosmos to get to us, and yet refuse to make contact even while surfing through our atmosphere.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 03:04:07 PM  
purplesmoke420
Why do you feel that it is naive of people to think that aliens could be visiting us or even interested in us? Is totally out of the realm of possibility? For all we know, they are just intergalactic "explorers" or "scientists".
I think a lot of people just brush off the UFO phenomena due to fear of the unknown.


This is a tactic I see employed a lot, and I find it a bit unfair. I say I consider something highly unlikely, and someone responds to the tune of "It's totally outside the realm of possibility? That's irrational." and then go on to disregard any of the points made with a followup of "fear of the unknown!"

It is things like this which cause these arguments to never end.

I explicitly stated in my post that I do consider it possible, "Could aliens get to us? Sure," so I wonder how far you got before you decided to ignore a contrasting opinion.

Why do I consider it naive? Well, first off, the distances are vast, unimaginably vast. I believe the reason most people believe alien visitation is possible is not because they believe alien technology could be beyond our reckoning, but simply because they fail to understand the distances involved. Even finding us would be incredibly hard, getting here far more so.

Is it possible though? Sure.

Would they be interested? Again I don't know. I think it is a sign of our ignorance, a tunnel vision, if you will, that people always assume aliens will essentially be a weird looking human.

We can imagine all kinds of strange body types, yet the aliens always have understandable human thought types. They're curious, they're hostile, they're explorers and what not. We always just automatically figure aliens will be mentally similar to us. Of course, we have no example of intelligent life that is not like us, so it's easy for people to simply miss the thought altogether.

But I see no reason to assume alien intellects would be even remotely fathomable by us, or operate along interests we can understand.
 
2005-07-09 03:10:02 PM  
Well said, G2V. Nice summation.
 
2005-07-09 03:13:24 PM  
Yossarian Lives!

I will remain highly skeptical that they are able to cross the cosmos to get to us, and yet refuse to make contact even while surfing through our atmosphere.

Ah, but they DID! They entered into some super-secret agreement with the government (of your contry of choice), to supply them with technology in return for unlimited abduction rights and all the cattle parts they can eat.

The reason no government feels left out of this agreement is because all governments are really pawns of some other, sinister organisation. We can call this organisation "Majestic 12" or "Priory of Sion" or "Greenpeace" or something.

The people trying to investigate this, and any dissidents within the "organisation", is publicly ridiculed and a pattern of disbelief is laid down. This is why hard truth like "crop circles are made my intelligent, extra-dimentional beings trying to contact us" sounds so laughable. You've been conditioned to find it absurd!

Keep an open mind! Hell, keep the doors wide open!
 
2005-07-09 03:15:07 PM  
By request:

[image from users.aol.com too old to be available]
 
2005-07-09 03:20:30 PM  
Can someone explain the UFOs in oil paintings to me?
 
2005-07-09 03:21:24 PM  
DrinkDifferent: we just haven't thought of a way yet


Ur, no comment.

Hey, you ever study Mach's principle? What determines velocity? Or acceleration? Why is there inertia? Interesting stuff. If you're the only thing in your universe, what is your velocity? With nothing to measure velocity against, could you exceed C? Can velocity even be defined then? What is the speed of light in an otherwise empty universe with one photon in it?
 
2005-07-09 03:23:03 PM  
AppleDane

Ah, but they DID! They entered into some super-secret agreement with the government (of your contry of choice), to supply them with technology in return for unlimited abduction rights and all the cattle parts they can eat.

And don't forget the Anal-Probing Accords of Atlanta, where they were given unlimited access to the human anus. It's an inter-galactic fetish, you know.
 
2005-07-09 03:24:20 PM  
Yossarian Lives!

I don't spend a great deal of time investigating UFO claim

The thing is, there's an organization called MUFON that does this very thing. These guys go around and interview people that claim to have seen UFOs or have been abducted. I know several guys who are "heads" of their respective chapters - and the thing that gets me every time is when they talk about several eye-witness accounts from different people who all talk about the SAME experience. (I.e. "I saw a black triangle fly due-west at 11:30PM" then later someone else talked about the same sighting - both of whom didn't know eachother).

AppleDane
You've never seen The Disclosure Project have you? Pretty interesting material, considering that most of the guest speakers are ex-military/gov.

Although i've never seen a 'flying-saucer' or a 'grey' - I have seen unidentified flying objects and have talked to quite a few people about their own experiences. All these people volunarily gave me their information. I never asked for it.

Some of the experiences I've heard about:

1) Several of my friends (3) stopped on the side of the road to witness a large CRAFT (yes, a flying disc) hover right over them, in broad daylight - several other people in cars stopped as well and witnessed the same. After the disc left (after a period of about 15 minutes), everyone just got back in their respective cars and drove off.

2) My MUFON buddy drove along a road in the middle of the night out in the country. Passing by a farm field, he noticed a LANDED craft. He stepped out, and kept his distance from it. He noticed several other cars pass him - they did not stop. He doesn't remember what happened afterwards.

3) My father flew helicopters in Vietnam. On a particular day he had an "official" board his helicopter with a bunch of strange instruments he had never seen before in his life. This man proceeded to tell my father where to fly by giving him coordinates to follow. Low and behold, when he got to the first checkpoint, a large orb flew from the horizon towards his heli at great speeds, proceeded to "fly circles around him" - flew off, then came back and repeated. This "official" had him go to several other "checkpoints" only to have the experiences with the "orb" happen again.

4) My wife and her friend witnessed several lights up in the sky that sort of looked like search lights. These lights came together, flew apart... and did a type of "dancing" - as if they wanted to be seen. She thought that it might have been search lights, however, there was no typical "beam" that would have come from the ground. This light formation/dance was only around for about 1-2 minutes.

I guess each and every one of those people could have lied to me... but what would be the point?
 
2005-07-09 03:25:49 PM  
Not_Enginerd

Can someone explain the UFOs in oil paintings to me?

Religious and cultural iconography. When that stuff gets lost over time, you look at paintings and go "what the fark is that?"

Imagine someone dug up a printed version of Fark after a couple of centuries. It would seem that this culture worshipped the mythic Domo-kun and The Squirrel With Large Nuts.
 
2005-07-09 03:33:37 PM  
AppleDane: Weak but I'll but it. Google it some time. If all the images the sites put up are unaltered, there is some pretty creepy stuff out there.
 
2005-07-09 03:34:16 PM  
*buy not but*
 
2005-07-09 03:36:16 PM  
Not_enginerd,

Although I am not well schooled in religion, I believe the depictions where of the flaming chariot someone rode on in the bible.. maybe someone can help fill in the details.

Still, I've seen about 20 or so of those paintings myself, and they dont look like chariots to me..
 
2005-07-09 03:42:35 PM  
Yeah it sucks nothing has come of the disclosure project, but having the press conference a few months before 9/11 didn't help i suppose.
 
2005-07-09 03:44:31 PM  
purplesmoke420

I see your MUFON and Disclosure Project and raise you a James Randi (pops)
 
2005-07-09 03:45:01 PM  
Thats not what I meant, I tried to post the picture but fark won't let me. (part of the giant conspiracy for sure)

Try googleing, "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino"
 
2005-07-09 03:46:45 PM  
AppleDane

One skeptic vs 2 organizations? You're gonna have to do better than that ;)
 
2005-07-09 03:49:52 PM  
The government and military testimony to the existence of UFOs is beyond question. I suspect most people simply haven't done their homework, and only hear about UFO sightings through their local media. Definitely check out the Disclosure Project, and the 2 hour video they have up on their website: http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm
 
2005-07-09 03:52:50 PM  
AppleDane

Just finishing reading the James Randi page. Did you even read the farking article? Or did you just type in "Disclosure Project" + "Skeptic" + "Mufon" in to google, and come up with that page all by yourself?
 
2005-07-09 03:59:36 PM  
purplesmoke420

The problem here is the utter lack of solid evidence - not witness testimonial. Witnesses claim to see all sorts of things: ET, ghosts, chupacabra, etc., but human perceptions are notoriously subjective. I'm not even saying that we choose to see what we wish to see; when we see things we don't comprehend, we tend to associate that thing with perceptions or associations we have in our memories. Lacking an appropriate association, we will tend to accept other "explanations". We also LOVE it if can be a "numinous" (from Sagan) experience, since we seem to crave the wondrous and magical. It's imagination gone to the other end of the spectrum.

We skeptics need the physical, objective things that are real and measurable. Where are the advanced techno-gizmos, the free power sources, all of the wonderful things that the Disclosure Project claims exist?

And I won't buy the government cover-up theories, either. Anyone, absolutely anyone, who has worked on classified projects can tell you how absolutely difficult it is to keep the secrets in the dark. People screw up and there are breaches of security every single day. How likely is it that something so huge like alien contact could remain in the black world for over 40 years? The Manhattan Project, which was the deepest, darkest secret of the 40's was compromised by the USSR. The F-117 was widely speculated upon and "known" well before the USAF officially announced its existence. This would be just too damn juicy for someone not to leak.
 
2005-07-09 04:01:15 PM  
purplesmoke420

One skeptic vs 2 organizations? You're gonna have to do better than that ;)

More utterances of the same theory doesn't make it truer.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 04:02:44 PM  
purplesmoke420
I guess each and every one of those people could have lied to me... but what would be the point?

Isn't it possible, at all, that these people simply misunderstood something that they saw?

'Unusual' searchlights in the sky, couldn't your witness have seen something normal, found it unusual, and described it to you? Or do you believe that all people are always 100% correct with their observations?

Why must we leap from "What they saw was real" to "They lied!" ?

I saw a disc shaped object hovering over a forest once, visible slightly below my elevation as I was on a bluff at the time near the Mississippi river valley.

I could not explain it, I still do not have an explanation for it. But that does not lead me to believe I saw an alien craft. Someone above mentioned occam's razor. While I may not know what I saw, that doesn't mean it had to be from another world. It is far more likely that I simply saw an ordinary phenominon and failed to recognize it for what it was.

I can tell you about it, and that doesn't mean that I automatically either "Saw an alien craft" or "am lying" to you.
 
2005-07-09 04:03:31 PM  
What always gets me is how much these UFOs change over time, almost on pace with what humans think they should look like. What happened to all the earlier cigar-shaped ones, or the discs or saucers? I wouldn't be too surprised if they began looking like the Millenium Falcon sometime soon, only that would be hard to confuse with a speck on a camera lens.

It must cost these aliens a small fortune to completely redesign their entire fleet every five years or so.

I have no doubt we're not alone in the universe. I wonder why the little green men stopped visiting and the greys appeared, and why aliens who prefer to remain hidden have lights on their ships, just like we do here on earth.
 
2005-07-09 04:03:47 PM  
[image from img79.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
2005-07-09 04:06:35 PM  
The point I neglected to make is that the burden of proof is on the shoulders of the UFO-beleivers. As I said before, you can hardly prove something DOESN'T exist. If you make the claim that something is "real", then it's up to you to show that your assertion is true. And don't hide behind conspiracy theories - that's the lazy way out of it.
 
2005-07-09 04:07:53 PM  
As far as skeptics go, Randi is one of the best. The posted article really goes after the organizers of the conference more than their beliefs, which is apt since Randi would not cover the UFO phenomenon in only a few paragraphs.

My 2 cents = Somethings up. Don't know how extensive, but somethings been here at least once. Theres just too many questions that come out from ancient egyptian and south american cultures. Damn I wish the library of Alexandia had not been razed.. we could at least get some answers.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 04:08:02 PM  
I also don't believe in psychic powers even though I can't seem to stop repeating what Yossarian Lives! is saying... !!!
 
2005-07-09 04:10:27 PM  
Yossarian Lives!

We skeptics need the physical, objective things that are real and measurable.

With that logic, you probably don't believe the Holocaust ever happened. 10 - 15% of the American public doesn't believe it happened because they need "absolute proof" - not just a bunch of eye-witness accounts.

Unlike you, however, there are people out there that are trying to uncover the truth - whether the existence of ufo's are real and whether their origins may be extraterrestrial or not. These people have put their jobs, their families, and their social standings on the line for this. These people are actually INVESTIGATING this - as opposed to you, who just theorizes, parrots other skeptics, and sits back in their comfort zone.
 
2005-07-09 04:12:05 PM  
[image from squidmobile.com too old to be available]

Those Mexico City sightings weren't UFOs, just a quick recon patrol. They'll be back.

/Pimping my indie game dev every chance I get
 
2005-07-09 04:13:39 PM  
Keep fightin the good fight purple. I'm with ya.
 
2005-07-09 04:15:08 PM  
2005-07-09 04:06:35 PM Yossarian Lives!

The point I neglected to make is that the burden of proof is on the shoulders of the UFO-beleivers. As I said before, you can hardly prove something DOESN'T exist. If you make the claim that something is "real", then it's up to you to show that your assertion is true. And don't hide behind conspiracy theories - that's the lazy way out of it.


I'd like to make the same comment for people who believe in god and also believe that it entitles them to affect the way I live my life. Note that I am not speaking of the religious, I am speaking of those who feel the need to infringe their beliefs on others.

Otherwise though, as a partial believer, I agree with you. The burden of proof is on the believers. As the amount of ridicule they endure lessens over time, people might finally get an answer to the question one way or the other.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 04:16:13 PM  
RandomHero

My 2 cents = Somethings up. Don't know how extensive, but somethings been here at least once. Theres just too many questions that come out from ancient egyptian and south american cultures.

A lot of those questions are simply wild speculation. One of the big ones of course is the whole "why do they both have pyramids" question. People assume they must either have had contact or all been taught by some outside force. They fail to appreciate that a pyramid is a fairly simple, stable structure that supports itself and can be made larger with a fair degree of solidity, not to mention the fact that both types of pyramids are highly dissimilar in anything other than the rough designation of their shape.

If you're going to make a large structure, it's one of the easiest large structures to build. Not that building the pyramids was an easy task labor-wise mind you, but why didn't aliens ever teach anyone to build something incredibly complex? I used to make pyramids in my sandbox when I was a little kid!

Other people point out that the Mayan Calandar ends soon, without realizing that it is a cyclical system and would simply start over. Our calandar ends on the last day of December on a yearly basis, but we don't anticipate the end of the world at Midnight.

A great great many of the questions we have raised exist simply because there are more people who don't look up the answers that are already found, than there are preaching for them to please please do some reasearch.
 
2005-07-09 04:19:19 PM  
Purplesmoke420

Just finishing reading the James Randi page. Did you even read the farking article? Or did you just type in "Disclosure Project" + "Skeptic" + "Mufon" in to google, and come up with that page all by yourself?

Really, there is no need to get patronising with me. The article states what is my point too. That just because people testify something, that doesn't make it true. I know what tricks the mind plays on you.

I'm hard of hearing and have tinnitus, and this sometimes makes me hear stuff that is not there, telephones ringing, people saying my name, and what not. This is all in my mind. Now, I am aware of my problem, but "normal" people get this too, and they have to attribute this to supernatural orgins. When I was in the army, I was on several occations sleep deprived and witnessed weird shiat. That is just another trick the mind plays on us.

I don't care how many people will witness these things. Bring on some hard evidence. As it has been said several times in this thread already: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not some people going "I swear, this really happened".
 
2005-07-09 04:19:25 PM  
Re: Mexico sightings. They should always been taken with a grain of salt. There is too much money being made in Mexico on UFO sightings through media outlets. Hell there's a show out there (don't know if its still on) that had daily new ufo footage.. My favorite one (often found on the net) is the WTC video from the helicopter. It would be really impressive had the camera operator not been able to keep a zig-zagging object travelling at incredible speeds in center frame throughout the whole video.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 04:23:03 PM  
purplesmoke420
With that logic, you probably don't believe the Holocaust ever happened. 10 - 15% of the American public doesn't believe it happened because they need "absolute proof" - not just a bunch of eye-witness accounts.

There is substantially more proof for the holocaust beyond eye-witness accounts. Physical remains, reliable photographic evidence, heck some of the involved structures are still standing. This is a pretty wild theory to claim as likely as UFOs not being extraterrestrial.

Unlike you, however, there are people out there that are trying to uncover the truth - whether the existence of ufo's are real and whether their origins may be extraterrestrial or not. These people have put their jobs, their families, and their social standings on the line for this. These people are actually INVESTIGATING this - as opposed to you, who just theorizes, parrots other skeptics, and sits back in their comfort zone.

So what, exactly, is your point? "You're lazy, so I am right because lots and lots of people spend their lives investigating UFO phenomina, the general scientific consensus of which remains that it is all misunderstood terrestrial activity or indeterminate at the very best" ?
 
2005-07-09 04:24:09 PM  
RandomHero

Yeah, I saw that WTC footage too. Apparently it was actually something made for the Sci Fi network.
 
2005-07-09 04:26:20 PM  
Eat the placentia
yay.

blindeye01

HELL yay!
 
2005-07-09 04:28:24 PM  
[image from yesalbum.com too old to be available]
 
2005-07-09 04:30:00 PM  
G2V, that one cracked me up!

purplesmoke420

With that logic, you probably don't believe the Holocaust ever happened.

Now that's stretching things a bit far. Although I have not personally been to Buchenwald, I believe that the camps existed, and that millions of people were exterminated. The fences, ovens and mass graves constitute irrefutable evidence.

Further, I suspect that those people who have put their jobs, their families, and their social standings on the line for this are not delving for the truth. I suspect that they are trying to make their beliefs come true. I happen to think they are misguided, but that's my opinion.

My skepticism is all mine, by the way. It applies to religion as well, but that is a topic for another thread.
 
2005-07-09 04:31:05 PM  
Both Belgium And Brazil have had disclosure on their ufo files.. so stfu about this not working already..
 
2005-07-09 04:33:57 PM  
divstah


Both Belgium And Brazil have had disclosure on their ufo files.. so stfu about this not working already..


linkplz?
 
2005-07-09 04:37:01 PM  
The burden of proof IS on the believers/experiencers.

You do, however, have to give some credit to the believers: They are actually teaming up to investigate this.

And you do have to at least think about this:
If at least ONE of the alien abductees is right - no matter what lack of evidence there is to prove the existence of extraterrestrials for the rest of you - they would still be right. ;)

But until you guys actually see a spaceship land in your front yard, and have a bunch of little green men pop out and say "Hi!" - I guess you'll still remain skeptics. And you know what? That's just fine by me...
 
2005-07-09 04:37:02 PM  
The poster someone pointed in this thread pretty much sums up my feelings. I want to believe - but it's a bunch of crap.

I've done several research projects in various classes on UFO phenomenon and the one thing that stands out is that, even with the US military's antagonistic "latch onto whatever explanation might even be remotely plausible other than unidentified" approach to the subject of UFO's there are still hundreds of sightings in the US labeled Unidentified.

Every time I hear a good farfetched conspiracy theory I like to imagine a world that is interesting enough for it to be true. Problem is in my experience the world isn't like that. There is no government conspiracy. Government is stupid shallow and incompetent, but not insidiously evil.
 
2005-07-09 04:38:36 PM  
G2V

"A lot of those questions are simply wild speculation. One of the big ones of course is the whole "why do they both have pyramids" question. People assume they must either have had contact or all been taught by some outside force.They fail to appreciate that a pyramid is a fairly simple, stable structure that supports itself and can be made larger with a fair degree of solidity, not to mention the fact that both types of pyramids are highly dissimilar in anything other than the rough designation of their shape."

Pyramids are definately not supernatural.. or suspicious. They were made to stand the forces of time. and as evident by their current existence, were sucessfull. No, when it comes to pyramids, I speak of the UFO symbolism in the heiroglyphs (sp?) located under the point on some pyramids.

The south american structures are more interesting due to the microprecision of the interlocking stones. That has yet to be conclusively explained, but is definately possible through human means.

"Other people point out that the Mayan Calandar ends soon, without realizing that it is a cyclical system and would simply start over. Our calandar ends on the last day of December on a yearly basis, but we don't anticipate the end of the world at Midnight."

I don't put much into the calendar theory. I am more interested in their ability with complex mathematics as it relates to sculpture. They have "shrines" (for the lack of a better word) that depending on the time of day, will modify the carved imagery into different images as the shadows cover different parts of the complex carvings. Again, this is acheivable through human means (especially today), but the timing and location of these abilities definately brings up questions.

"A great great many of the questions we have raised exist simply because there are more people who don't look up the answers that are already found, than there are preaching for them to please please do some reasearch."

The research in these places is far from done. To say that all the information is already there is a ludicrous statement. Those too, are only theories, albeit logical and educated, they are still theories (as for example is evolution). Personally, I agree and believe the "mud slope roller" theory of building the pyramids(as I do with evolution), however I hardly see that as a cased closed scenario on the mysteries of Egypt.

Egypt/South America is still being researched by countless groups because of the amazing advances those culture had made at such an early time. To say that the riddle is solved is truly an insult to these amazing ancient cultures.

My point remains that if the Library of Alexandria had not been burned down, we would have definitive answers on these fascinating questions.
 
2005-07-09 04:39:55 PM  
 
2005-07-09 04:41:36 PM  
 
2005-07-09 04:42:05 PM  
G2V

So what, exactly, is your point? "You're lazy, so I am right because lots and lots of people spend their lives investigating UFO phenomina, the general scientific consensus of which remains that it is all misunderstood terrestrial activity or indeterminate at the very best" ?

No, i'm just saying that you haven't done your homework on this subject. I'm not saying I'm right - I'm saying that instead of looking a little bit closer in to this subject, you would rather turn a blind eye and just totally disregard it.
 
2005-07-09 04:42:12 PM  
2005-07-09 04:24:09 PM Exocet

RandomHero

Yeah, I saw that WTC footage too. Apparently it was actually something made for the Sci Fi network.


Wow, didn't know that. Further's my point about some UFO programming in Mexico, as the clip I saw finishes with the host and his guest, the cameraman, discussing the footage. I don't know his name, but in my UFO research travels I've often seen the face.
 
2005-07-09 04:47:38 PM  
purplesmoke420

You do, however, have to give some credit to the believers: They are actually teaming up to investigate this.

I'll give them partial credit for that, IF they are willing to admit it if their research turns up nothing in the way of proof. However, when they make wild-assed proclamations FIRST, and then expend all of that energy trying to make it so, then their motives are suspect. I'd be more apt to sympathize with someone who says "Are UFO's real? What things can we do to prove it one way or another?" THAT is someone who has real research in mind. The Disclosure Project is far from that.
 
2005-07-09 04:54:03 PM  
2005-07-09 04:37:02 PM Digitalstrange [TotalFark]

"The poster someone pointed in this thread pretty much sums up my feelings. I want to believe - but it's a bunch of crap."


I want to believe - But I have'nt been convinced yet.

"I've done several research projects in various classes on UFO phenomenon and the one thing that stands out is that, even with the US military's antagonistic "latch onto whatever explanation might even be remotely plausible other than unidentified" approach to the subject of UFO's there are still hundreds of sightings in the US labeled Unidentified."

Having done some research myself, I can't possibly imagine anything more than 1% of sightings being credible. Most cases are either hoaxes or simply mistaken identity, even some cases are just that, UFOs. Unidentified flying objects. Hell, if I toss a burning cat (I love cats, dont shoot me) into a vat of kerosene, and it launches into the sky, everyone who sees it (except me, since I know what it is) would identify that as a UFO. If more than %1 percent of these claims were legit, there would be no argument of their prescence. Personally, I think we have had only a handful of encounters over our history. If there have been more, I would assume them to be more purposeful (ie. communicating with our leadership).

"Every time I hear a good farfetched conspiracy theory I like to imagine a world that is interesting enough for it to be true. Problem is in my experience the world isn't like that. There is no government conspiracy. Government is stupid shallow and incompetent, but not insidiously evil."

I'd like to think that too. And it's generally true. But we are talking about the military here, and they are a wee bit smarter than the rest of government. Do you watch Penn & Teller's bullshiat? Not to rag on you, just that last sentence sounds just like the "high note" Penn leaves us on at the end of the Big Brother episode.
 
2005-07-09 04:58:13 PM  
Whether there are aliens visiting us or not, I don't know. I tend to be very skeptical about most reports as I think it much more likely that people just can't figure out what it is, therefore they believe it must be an alien ship for some reason (seems like arrogance, just cuz I don't know what it is, it can't possibly be a natural or human-made phenomenon?).

But I am certain that the government could not possibly keep a secret of that magnitude. The government can't keep anything a secret, I mean we're talking about politicians... does anyone really believe that any that knew about it wouldn't at some point decide to use it as political capital?

Oh yeah, trip to moon, same thing. That the gov't might be capable of attempting such a deception for political gain I have no issues with, but that they could keep it secret? gimme a break (this is ignoring all other evidence as well of course).
 
2005-07-09 05:02:05 PM  
2005-07-09 04:47:38 PM Yossarian Lives!

"I'll give them partial credit for that, IF they are willing to admit it if their research turns up nothing in the way of proof.
"

You and I both know damn well that will never happen, regardless of which side you and I stand on in this issue.

"However, when they make wild-assed proclamations FIRST, and then expend all of that energy trying to make it so, then their motives are suspect. I'd be more apt to sympathize with someone who says "Are UFO's real? What things can we do to prove it one way or another?" THAT is someone who has real research in mind. The Disclosure Project is far from that. "

Agreed. However in their defense, more media personnel will attend a press conference labeled "UFO's are real" than "Are UFO's real?". They need public support to have the government release documentation. Therefore, they need media support to reach the public.

My question in all this is, if the government keeps a lid on this info for security purposes, is security so outdated that we can't give out information from the 70's, the 80's, hell even the 90's? They can just use the black jiffy marker like they always do. However in retrospect, I guess the UFO'ers would just end up playing conspiracy madlibs.

The was up the left behind by the collision.
 
2005-07-09 05:03:02 PM  
RandomHero

But we are talking about the military here, and they are a wee bit smarter than the rest of government.

I'll respectfully disagree with you there. Having worked in and around the US military for over 20 years, I can tell you without reservation that your assumptions are incorrect. I see the security lapses nearly every day and if the military is indeed a wee bit smarter, then I truly feel bad for the other departments of Uncle Sam.
 
2005-07-09 05:09:10 PM  
2005-07-09 04:58:13 PM MediaAreAllHacks

"Oh yeah, trip to moon, same thing. That the gov't might be capable of attempting such a deception for political gain I have no issues with, but that they could keep it secret? gimme a break (this is ignoring all other evidence as well of course).


Oh it's quite simple. They went to the moon. AND they made a fake video of it. Why? two-fold answer:

1. If they failed. The russians were too close (with interesting theories of possible sabotage of their last few attempts), they had to make it on this attempt. If they didn't, air the video.

2. If they did make it, the picture quality would be awful, therefore, the next day's newspapers would have front pages without blurry, crappy photos (think of the recent comet collision's pictures for the first few minutes, if you've seen them). Since this was not just a race to reach a goal for humanity, but also a contest between the two combatants of the cold war, a better set of images would be required for the media/propaganda victory.

Interesting documentary covering point #2 is (i believed) called dark side of the moon. It's a documentary with the late Stanley Kubrick's wife where she claims that she found documentation (which is shown) in his "vault" supporting the notion that SK did the fake moon landing video for NASA in exchange for a one of a kind lens which he used to make 2001:ASO.
 
2005-07-09 05:11:36 PM  
RandomHero

I'm guessing you didn't watch the last few minutes of that documentary.. :)
 
2005-07-09 05:11:41 PM  
RandomHero

They need public support to have the government release documentation. Therefore, they need media support to reach the public.

I agree with you on that point. Funding follows the flash, as it were, so I give them credit for that.

is security so outdated that we can't give out information from the 70's, the 80's, hell even the 90's?

Most stuff is declassified within time constraints, as it's a real pain in the tuchus to maintain classified files. Sometimes, though, it's likely to stay locked up - such as most of the documentation from the Manhattan Project. Even after 60 years, that stuff would be way too helpful for certain Evil Axis countries.
 
2005-07-09 05:13:08 PM  
2005-07-09 05:03:02 PM Yossarian Lives!

I'll respectfully disagree with you there. Having worked in and around the US military for over 20 years, I can tell you without reservation that your assumptions are incorrect. I see the security lapses nearly every day and if the military is indeed a wee bit smarter, then I truly feel bad for the other departments of Uncle Sam.


I speak of the upper echelon (as I don't imagine seeing gomer pile discussing interstellar travel with alf) when discussing UFO's. However, since I have no reason not to, I'll take your word on it.
 
2005-07-09 05:15:56 PM  
2005-07-09 05:11:36 PM Exocet

RandomHero

I'm guessing you didn't watch the last few minutes of that documentary.. :)


To be perfectly honest, I don't remember. I saw it a year or two ago, and I just remember the basics. I'm guessing (from the smiley) that they faked it.. if so.. damn that was boring for a fake. At least Fubar was funny.
 
2005-07-09 05:17:55 PM  
Check the spoilers here..

It was well done, though. I enjoyed it.
 
2005-07-09 05:18:13 PM  
RandomHero

I speak of the upper echelon...

I can't vouch for the flag ranks, but at some point in that whole huge process, they would need some lowly enlisted guys doing the grunt work, even if it would be dusting the filing cabinets. No general is going to be buffing floors or changing the light bulbs in the Alien Body Vault, you know.
 
2005-07-09 05:18:51 PM  
"it's likely to stay locked up - such as most of the documentation from the Manhattan Project. Even after 60 years, that stuff would be way too helpful for certain Evil Axis countries."

Now that's information I can see as being sensitive to national security. Speaking of City based projects, whats the deal with the Philadelphia experiment? Anyone know if any of that was legit? (and I don't mean the movie).
 
2005-07-09 05:20:29 PM  
2005-07-09 05:18:13 PM Yossarian Lives!

"No general is going to be buffing floors or changing the light bulbs in the Alien Body Vault, you know."


Unless you're the No. 3 guy in Al Quaeda!

/Had to say it.
//Your point is very valid though.
 
2005-07-09 05:22:02 PM  
RandomHero

Oh, and, Bob & David *rule*. :)
 
2005-07-09 05:22:41 PM  
Exocet,

Thanks for the link.. Im going to go clean this egg of my face now.

:)

At least it was during the credits, I don't tend to watch those very often. Make's me feel a tiny bit less dumb.
 
2005-07-09 05:24:48 PM  
RandomHero: If it makes you feel any better, I've watched it twice. The first time, I completely missed the credits too :) Needless to say, I felt a little dumb watching it the second time.. heh.
 
2005-07-09 05:25:24 PM  
Exocet

"Oh, and, Bob & David *rule*. :)"

Excellent! The Bob will be pleased. This kind of behaviour is sure to send you up Heaven's chimney.
 
2005-07-09 05:26:18 PM  
RandomHero

Unless you're the No. 3 guy in Al Quaeda!

OK, now you owe me a new vodka tonic!

I don't know fark-all about the Philadelphia experiment. The movie is the extent of my knowledge, but I'd be interested to hear more about that one. Sounds like a good History Channel project there. Charge 'em royalties if they take your idea, though!
 
2005-07-09 05:27:01 PM  
 
2005-07-09 05:27:04 PM  
2005-07-09 05:24:48 PM Exocet

RandomHero: If it makes you feel any better, I've watched it twice. The first time, I completely missed the credits too :) Needless to say, I felt a little dumb watching it the second time.. heh.

- I just can't believe I told people about this in public.. on the internet is one thing.. but in public.. doh!

I gotta admit, getting his wife, rumsfeld and kissinger really gives it some credibility.
 
2005-07-09 05:28:25 PM  
Oh, definitely. I really don't know how he managed to convince them to do it. I was fooled right up til the end.
 
2005-07-09 05:30:22 PM  
2005-07-09 05:26:18 PM Yossarian Lives!

"I don't know fark-all about the Philadelphia experiment. The movie is the extent of my knowledge, but I'd be interested to hear more about that one. Sounds like a good History Channel project there. Charge 'em royalties if they take your idea, though!"

I'll get Oliver Stone to direct it, what could possibly go wrong?
 
2005-07-09 05:38:54 PM  
RandomHero

I'll get Oliver Stone to direct it, what could possibly go wrong?

Just a hunch, but I'd bet he comes up with something like "Oswald acted alone."

/OK, Ollie, time to lower the meds, baby
 
2005-07-09 05:50:24 PM  
2005-07-09 05:38:54 PM Yossarian Lives!

Just a hunch, but I'd bet he comes up with something like "Oswald acted alone."

Who knew he spent all that time at the book depository reading up teleportation?

And for no particular reason.. im calling it a day with my favorite simpsons quote:

Marge - Homer! i've got someone who can help you
Homer - Is it Batman?
Marge - It's a scientist!
Homer - Batman's a scientist?
Marge - It's not Batman!

/Have a good weekend all
 
2005-07-09 05:58:34 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

I see the security lapses nearly every day and if the military is indeed a wee bit smarter, then I truly feel bad for the other departments of Uncle Sam.


scratches head and tries to think how to say this without being the pot calling the kettle black


I think it gets harder to have a really good security lapse for technical stuff because no-one understands what got leaked. A second level is, the leaks are a little here, a little there, and no-one tries to put them together. Or can't, because they don't understand what's being done, or why, or who would be involved in something like that as personnel.

There's also intentionally induced noise, that is, if you have something you don't want leaked from people near but not on the project, you insert leaks that are believable but untrue. A side effect benefit of that is that the nature of the leakage can be used to identify the leak source. e.g., if you have your gravitic anomalizer in the shed, then you tell the guards its a goat killing death ray, and you drag a mangled goat past them and toss it in the dumpster with cryptic comments, then you lay back and wait to see if the death ray stories crop up. You tell the REMFs ordering stuff that it's a laser or something, and see if you get laser stories. Or you can use bogus project names as tags for leak tracing.

Just a whole lot of stuff is out in the open, like the Purloined Letter. You have to understand how object/effect X is used in order to "get" the point of the publication.

Um, there was a series of somewhat publicized seminars sponsored by a certain military branch in the last two years, in which they basically jonesed for concepts of what to do with a certain non-existent technology, if you had it. It was covered with loud snickering and "what a waste of my tax money!" carping on Fark at least twice. You had to "get" the other piece of the puzzle to understand the joke...the tech DID exist. Grant you, there was a concerted and quite effective effort in the presentation to distract your attention from the possibility. The "given you had this" part of "what would you do with it?" was very misleading, but in a crafty way so that the answers you got would still probably be useful. So, haha, we ended up with a lot of possibly useful weapon system concept inputs.

Hell, even on Fark you see stuff that is definitely 100% still classified, if you knew who to listen to and when.

Sometimes, though, it's likely to stay locked up - such as most of the documentation from the Manhattan Project. Even after 60 years, that stuff would be way too helpful for certain Evil Axis countries.

Actually, a lot of that is out if you know where to look, and what to ignore. Some of it is intentionally wrong, just a little, and some of it is still classified, like solid initiator design documents. Interesting side note, there are a number of Farkers that are now or were LANL. One active Farker writes hydrocodes for bomb simulations. There's a one-time bomb maintenance tech that's pretty active.
 
2005-07-09 06:17:12 PM  
"The point I neglected to make is that the burden of proof is on the shoulders of the UFO-beleivers. As I said before, you can hardly prove something DOESN'T exist. If you make the claim that something is "real", then it's up to you to show that your assertion is true. And don't hide behind conspiracy theories - that's the lazy way out of it."

The problem with the burden of proof is this: thousands of people witnessed and filmed a bunch of orbs that flew in a consistent group (the individual orbs stayed in the same place). THOUSANDS of people (that have seen balloons before, I'm sure). Both Yossarian Lives! and G2V looked at a crappy, short video of the event and immediately wrote it off as balloons. When that is the extent of the research on the part of skeptics, who really cares what you think. What's next? Are you going to conclude that though there were thousands of people they were all Mexicans, so they don't know what they are talking about or are "easily frightened"?

Why don't you both look into the event a little more before you declare to everyone on FARK that they are simply balloons?

I saw one of these orbs over Portland some years ago, in the daylight, on a cloudless day. It stayed in exactly one spot, without moving, for two hours. I watched it with 12 people, two of them were former pilots (one was a former airforce pilot). We estimated the height to be 20-30,000 feet. After about an hour, the orb emitted a much smaller orb, that was basically a ball of light. The light hovered for a few seconds and flew off at a high rate of speed, changing directions very quickly before it was out of view.

Someone on the other side of Portland photographed the event, and contacted MUFON. According to this witness (who was able to observe it much longer) the orb let out a total of 7 objects. When he snapped his photo, 4 of them were captured in the same photo as the larger orb (it was three years ago, so it would take some searching to find the photo...but you'd just declare it was a balloon anyway).

I was blown away. When the smaller object was emmitted, 3 of the people in the group I was in turned around and left, seemingly unable to deal with how abnormal the whole situation was.

So there you have it, multiple witnesses, two were pilots, another witness photographed it from across town, and none of us claimed it was from another world or had some mass delusion brought on by how strange it was. Immediately after the event, however, my mind was forever changed about whether or not were are alone. It was the only thing I could find to explain a metallic craft that can stay motionless in one spot for hours while emitting "flying light orbs" that were able to change directions at a very high rate of speed.

What happened to the craft? It dissappeared and reappeared closer to the horizon, then slowly moved out of our range of site.
 
2005-07-09 06:17:48 PM  
In your mind you have capacities you know
To telepath messages through the vast unknown
Please close your eyes and concentrate
With every thought you think
Upon the recitation we're about to sing

Calling occupants of interplanetary craft.
Calling occupants of interplanetary, most extraordinary craft.


/ prefers "The Carpenters" version of this song over the original by "Klaatu."
// no, I'm not advocating. I just like the ditty in question.
 
2005-07-09 06:24:09 PM  
erewhon

You have to understand how object/effect X is used in order to "get" the point of the publication.

Oh, agreed. That's why we are constantly harped upon for OPSEC just as much as we are on other aspects of security. "Open" pieces of the puzzle can help connect other things together. True story: Some dumbasses I worked with were TDY and having dinner when they started chatting with a couple of younger women. They bragged about the work they were doing, how cool it was, etc., in vain hopes of getting laid. They got called into the colonel's office the following week, and (you saw this one coming), the cute chicks were really OSI agents who had taped the whole thing. Nothing classified was leaked, but it was senstitive information - what was once called EEFI.

Still, there has been so much scrutiny over Roswell in the last 20 years, that someone surely would have put those seemingly unrelated things together by now. Even non-tech things would have slipped by now - logistics or operations or any other seemingly mundane thing. It's just too hard to keep something like that quiet.

But that's the dilemma, isn't it? It's one of those things that, by their very nature, can't be disproved. We can't prove that a classified project never leaked if we don't know that it existed in the first place. That's why conspiracy theories will never die. It's a circular argument.

I have a lot of respect for LANL folks, in spite of all the poor press lately. There are some great folks working there. I'd hate to work in THAT tight of a security environment, though.
 
2005-07-09 06:53:01 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

True story: Some dumbasses I worked with were TDY and having dinner when they started chatting with a couple of younger women. They bragged about the work they were doing, how cool it was, etc., in vain hopes of getting laid. They got called into the colonel's office the following week, and (you saw this one coming), the cute chicks were really OSI agents who had taped the whole thing. Nothing classified was leaked, but it was senstitive information - what was once called EEFI.

Heh. Here in Pensacola you see a lot of ONI at times in different entertainment establishments. It's not unusual to be in a 'technical' conversation with someone and have someone else join in/sit near/perk up their ears. Beware of new buddies buying drinks, I always say. I don't recall the thread but another farker and I had a long threadjack on bar boojums a few months back.

I remember one long ago (not here) where we were talking about something we were working on over drinks (it was a military town), and this guy came over and started the usual crapola:

************ semi true story *******************

"wow that sounds interesting, where do you guys work ...you're in civvies, but could be mil by appearance, are you in my jurisdiction?"

"around, here and there what's it to ya, bub?"

"do you guys work out at [base]? I'll try a different tack I hear they work on real weird shiat, maybe even [topic] I'll solicit you to disclose if you won't do it voluntarily"

"wow, do you think so? (looks innocent) well, yeah, we're there as consultants on a project. But we can't talk about it, it's real secret. how far will you go, bub?"

"gotcha, you ARE in my jurisdiction, civilian trash Gee, do you know if it's true if [topic]? I saw something over by [location] one night, and then I saw stuff on the net about it that say it's [cover story 1], but I don't know if maybe it's not [cover story 2]. Come on, you can tell me if I'm close, can't you? spill it fat boy"

"ok, uh, what's your name?"

"John Smith"

"hang on, John. (stands up, yells) JOHN'S A BOOJUM! JOHN'S A BOOJUM! DON'T TRUST JOHN, HE'S AFOSI! HE'S OVER HERE SOLICITING SECURE INFORMATION! (sits)"

"any other questions, mr afosi?"

"GADAMIT you just farked me over!"

"and you were trying to do what to me? "
*****************************

On the Roswell thing, who knows? If there was something, you know they'd be covering as much as they could. And spreading so much disinfo that was almost correct that you'd never be able to separate the sheep from the goats later.

OTOH, there's plenty of other stuff that is real interesting that's related, and is more real/more locatable and definable than something as old as Roswell. I think the UFOlogists are wasting their time on the one while ignoring the other, but that's probably the point too. Every once in a while you see a book that's probably officially sanctioned that keeps the old roswell fires burning. I think it's a big distraction to cover up what's going on, and what's going on is actually a very interesting experimental alternative propulsion method. But that's just my opinion. What do I know?
 
2005-07-09 07:14:18 PM  
erewhon

JOHN'S A BOOJUM! JOHN'S A BOOJUM!

I haven't hear that term for those guys before - but it fits! I like it! hehhehheh.

Time to call it quits for a while. She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed wants to use the machine for a bit.

Saw Dennis is back up to Cat 3 and climbing. If you're staying in P-cola, keep your head down there, mate. (Damn glad I don't live in FWB anymore!) Stay safe.
 
2005-07-09 07:22:19 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

I haven't hear that term for those guys before - but it fits! I like it! hehhehheh.

Yeah, they look like the common snark, but if they get you, you softly and silently vanish away.

The family is away to the 'bold new city' of Jackson, MS, I'm staying until it's obvious if it's going to hit or not. If it looks like it will, I'm away. If not, I'll stay. Like Ishmael, I alone am left to tell the tale.
 
2005-07-09 07:40:56 PM  
I find it interesting that when the General Accounting Office, GOA, looked into the Roswell incident they reported every record pertaining to that day in Roswell was missing persumed destroyed. So if it was nothing why are the records "missing"? Also why are so many records in Operation Bluebook still redacted?
 
2005-07-09 08:47:55 PM  
I couldn't resist popping back in for a moment...

cargrrl82

I find it interesting that when the General Accounting Office, GOA, looked into the Roswell incident they reported every record pertaining to that day in Roswell was missing persumed destroyed.

I happen to have a copy of the Roswell Report here beside me, and you've been mininformed about "all" of the records missing. They do list a small amount of documents that are missing, but there is a very extensive list of records that are still available, and were subsequently searched. This is an 8.5" x 11" book, roughly 2.5" thick, with tons of photocopies of original documents, diaries, drawings, etc.

It was a research balloon with radar targets launched from Holloman AFB. There was no flying saucer crash.

I can't comment on Project Bluebook, since I haven't studied anything there, but the Roswell Report did look through Bluebook records and found absolutely no mention of Roswell in there. Remember, the "Roswell Incident" didn't become an "event" until a National Enquirer article in 1978 turned it into a media myth.
 
2005-07-09 10:39:36 PM  
So, Yossarian_Lives...which 'Roswell Report' would that be.

Remember, they've had two different "official" reports (so far) to try and explain the one event. So what if one of those uses events that took place around 5-10 years later to explain it, right?

I dunno what happened in Roswell, but the idea that no one could recognize balloons, no matter their purpose, is less believable to me than the idea of a saucer crash.

On the other hand...I don't really care. I like living in a world with UFOs and ghosts and bigfoots and Nessies and whatever, so I do.

Your mileage may vary.
 
2005-07-10 12:49:44 AM  
Yes, ArcLight, you have it exactly right. We have such a wealth of alien technology that we're still using hideously wasteful chemical rockets for spaceflight, launching incredibly fragile space shuttles that rip apart on re-entry. Not to mention the fact that we suck down millions of gallons of fossil fuels driving around with our internal combustion engines that we obviously didn't start using unitl 1950. And thanks to that wonderful Xaxian technology, we have people all over the world starving and dying of diseases like AIDS and Ebola. We should all thank our alien overlords for these and many other wonderful advances.

You live in your delusional little faerie world. I'll choose reality.
 
2005-07-10 01:17:52 AM  
Given that convo hall's about 50 yards from where I work, I'm wondering what I can do to have fun with this... any ideas?

/thinks that yes, there likely is life elsewhere
/also thinks that no, we haven't been visited - they're probably staring at the sky just like we are
 
2005-07-10 02:30:34 AM  
"I happen to have a copy of the Roswell Report here beside me, and you've been mininformed about "all" of the records missing. They do list a small amount of documents that are missing, but there is a very extensive list of records that are still available, and were subsequently searched. This is an 8.5" x 11" book, roughly 2.5" thick, with tons of photocopies of original documents, diaries, drawings, etc.

It was a research balloon with radar targets launched from Holloman AFB. There was no flying saucer crash.

I can't comment on Project Bluebook, since I haven't studied anything there, but the Roswell Report did look through Bluebook records and found absolutely no mention of Roswell in there. Remember, the "Roswell Incident" didn't become an "event" until a National Enquirer article in 1978 turned it into a media myth."


The thing to keep in mind about the Roswell incident was this: The main witness in the Roswell case was Jesse Marcel. He was a major for the 509th bomber squadron, the most secretive wing of the air force that existed at that time. They were the squad responsible for dropping two atomic weapons on Japan. Marcel himself worked on Project Mogul, and yet, throughout his lifetime Jesse Marcel maintained that what crashed at Roswell in 1947 was no weather balloon. He stated just before his death in a video taped interview "what crashed was not from this world". To say that Marcel was "mistaken" in his description of the debris was an insult to this mans intelligence and professional knowledge, and yet, there it is.

The entire reason for a Roswell Conspiracy was Jesse Marcel. It was his testimonial that led to the investigation in the first place, and EVERYTHING since then is hinged on his original testimony.
 
2005-07-10 09:07:58 AM  
"
We skeptics need the physical, objective things that are real and measurable. "

What about crop circles then ? ehh ? EHH ?
 
2005-07-10 01:29:41 PM  
glenlivid

Not that you'll come back to read this...

On your earlier post, those objects in that crappy video are nothing but balloons. Your claims, based on that same crappy video, that they are alien craft flying in formation shows that you didn't see anything that you didn't want to see. It doesn't take much "analysis" to see the truth of the matter there, yet you accuse me of jumping to a conclusion. Why is it then OK for YOU to jump to the conclusion that they're anything BUT balloons, just because you want it to be something beyond the mundane? You want it to be magical and other-worldly, and it upsets you when someone gives you a boring explanation.

As for your sighting of an orb in a clear, cloudless sky, I'm betting that you saw what is known as a "rockoon". (You go look that up, I'll wait right here.) My main job is on a crew that flies high altitude balloons, at altitudes above 100,000 feet. Some of the balloons are on the order of 10 to 15 million cubic feet. These balloons, at float, expand to a diameter of several hundred feet, and are very visible to the naked eye. Even small ones of 200,000 cubic feet are visible. Without prior knowledge of the size of the object you're seeing, there is no way to "estimate" its altitude without some reference point to compare it with. A pilot is no better judge of that estimate than you are, so your estimate of 20,000 to 30,000 feet has no basis of accuracy. So there YOU have it; you see something out of the ordinary, you don't immediately call it an alien craft, but you don't spend any time looking at any other explanations, either. After a bit of reflection, THEN you go for the "alien answer."

As for Maj. Marcel, he most certainly did NOT work on MOGUL. The 509th had nothing to do with the project, and Marcel was certainly not read into it, nor was he the "main witness" as you claim. It's convenient for the believers that Marcel is dead, and therefore can't refute the claims. But then, you won't listen to reason and will continue to believe this nonsense, no matter what evidence you're given.

On the day that aliens land somewhere like Central Park, grant an interview with Katie Couric or go on Oprah, I will believe it.
 
2005-07-10 02:13:45 PM  
1692: "Of course there's witches! Everyone knows they are conspiring with the devil to take our seed and reek havoc on this good, godly community. Last night I saw Goody Tucker flying on a broomstick and then transform herself into vapor..."

1916: "Of course there's fairies! Everyone knows these little pixies exist in trees. There's photographic proof of them, I swear, and everyone within the community swears of their existence. Last night, PC Cromwell was doing his rounds when he saw them dancing on a tree limb..."

2005: "Of course there's UFOs! Everyone knows that human beings cannot be the only intelligent life form in the universe. There's plenty of proof of their existence in pictures and photographs, and the governments of the world are covering it up! Last night, my uncle Jeb was driving through St. Cloud when he saw one of those things floating above the freeway with little egg-shaped men walking below..."

Human beings are such an interesting species.

Yossarian Lives! has hit it in the nail in each one of his posts.
 
2005-07-10 03:14:51 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

You want it to be magical and other-worldly, and it upsets you when someone gives you a boring explanation.


Bingo. Not just glenlivid either. This is pretty much standard for the entire MUFON community. They're not interested in UFO's per se, only extraterrestrial UFOs. If something ends up having a mundane explanation, even if that explanation is itself amazing or instructive, then it's a coverup or totally uninteresting. Because the "aliens are coming to save us from ourselves"/"aliens are coming to kill and eat us" factor is gone.



The 509th had nothing to do with the project, and Marcel was certainly not read into it, nor was he the "main witness" as you claim.

You're probably going to have to explain "being read onto" a project for the unwashed masses. Heh. Remember, few here have ever signed NDA's, or been read onto anything, or held up their little paws and recited that oath.


******* Semi true story ************

There's a USAP in the southeast that was a more-or-less abandoned civilian facility. It was bought by someone at MacDill very indirectly to serve as a sort of MOUT trainer. More I cannot say. But, they ran off the locals that had cut the fence and were using the land to hunt on (illegally) and did a lot of construction work there to further the development of the thing. Since they didn't want to give away a lot of what was going on there, a lot of the stuff was carried in by helicopter at night, there was some blasting work to put in little runways and so on. Suddenly, there was this story that it was a UFO base o' doom that cropped up amongst the townies.

I don't know if that was intentional or not, I certainly hope it wasn't, but everyone started seeing LGM's, 'black triangles', reptilians, death ray beams, Russians, UN death commandos and whatnot. I'm surprised they didn't see Nessie and some Sasquatches while they were at it. To this day it is the home of evil death rays, and scalar mind control beams, and from the reports, it's like LaGuardia Interstellar UFO airport from the traffic.

The moral of the story being, anytime something's going on that people don't understand, they think someone's out to get them. And then the thing starts feeding on itself, and everyone's imagination kicks in, and any semblance of sense goes out the window. There's also a bigger proportion of the populace than you might want to believe that actually SEES stuff that's just not there. It's real to them. But these guys can see a set of marker lights on a helicopter when the wind's carrying the sound away from them, and by god it's a UFO. Then their imagination fills in the missing bits and it's a BLACK TRIANGLE!! And I SAW IT!!
 
2005-07-10 03:24:01 PM  
Good points, DVHookster. Myths are hard to kill, and you can bet that there are still some people who believe in witches and pixies and dryads and whatnot. If nothing else, humans are indeed interesting.
 
2005-07-10 03:31:05 PM  
Amen, Yossarian. Amen.
 
2005-07-10 03:52:49 PM  
erewhon

First, hope you've battened the hatches there. I'm watching the Weather Wonks. A part of me would love to see Jim Cantore (sp?) get whacked upside the melon with an airborne Spanish tile. (And why would you put Spanish tiles on a roof in a hurricane zone??) Navarre beach was my favorite place to go back in the day - it has a special place in my heart, and it hurts to think what is happening there right now.

Second, I love your "base 'o doom" story. I've only known a couple of times where a cover story was employed to "hide" things. One was what the various test ranges listed as the "Advanced A-7" on their schedules, but everyone knew that it was a dark project. Turned out to be the F-117.

We still do balloon flights out of Roswell, on the old Walker AFB ramp. We fly a stuffed green alien one of us bought in the "museum" there on every flight - he's our "pilot," as it were. I always wonder how many folks mistake our balloons for something else. We also still have two of the old anthropomorphic dummies sitting around. We use them only for practical jokes now. Damn things are creepy looking, though. When you walk into a room where one is sitting, even if you know it's there, it still makes you jump a little. heh

Back to watching Anderson Cooper trying to get decapitated! Woot!
 
2005-07-10 04:45:17 PM  
Yossarian Lives!: First, hope you've battened the hatches there.


Nah, I fled about 1AM when it became painfully obvious that my sacrifices to the stray cat god weren't going to deflect the storm. I'm at our temporary family headquarters in Jackson MS at the moment.

I don't think they promulgated the story. I don't think they did. It would have been more trouble than it was worth, IMO. What I think is that the locals were seeing shiathooks or some other heavy lifters flying in graders and pallets of construction materials at night, and voila! it's a black triangle base.

Then they put Wackenhuts all round, and while they were probably nicer than they had to be, it was still a real surprise to the locals, who were using it for the happy hunting grounds.

A few guys went into town on the odd occasion as well, and given the normal sense of humor probably started the 'UN invader' thing by switching to Farsi or German to discuss some woman's ass right in front of her. Now you got yer Rooskies comin' into town, don'cha know. And of course, given their senses of humor, once that gets started, you got to keep it up, at least until you get in trouble for it.

Then there was the radio station incident.

In the end, you got your townies and the mounting legend of the secret reptilian base, and the thing itself which is probably one of the most brilliant re-uses of an abandoned piece of real estate I've ever seen.

But everyone around there misinterprets EVERYTHING they see. It HAS to be UFO's. That can't be a helicopter, it's a black triangle. That isn't a dozen guys in BDU's and camo getting ready to stage an assault on the trainer, it's a Rooskie UN invasion team practicing capturing our water tower. Those guys in the Zodiac buzzing up the river in camo, that's a Rooskie amphibious assault team. That's not a searchlight at night, it's a death beam. Cause you know, it's just not as fun if it's a training facility.
 
2005-07-10 05:34:00 PM  
erewhon

it's just not as fun if it's a training facility.

hehheh. Let me guess, they probably had a few AH-6's zooming around for good measure, too. Nothing says "New World Order" like a Lil' Bird.

Good on ya' for bugging out. It would be a hoot to ride one out on the USS Alabama, though. Hope you didn't get much damage.
 
2005-07-10 05:58:02 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

hehheh. Let me guess, they probably had a few AH-6's zooming around for good measure, too. Nothing says "New World Order" like a Lil' Bird.


AH-6's. Heh. That's the right guys, for sure.

It's been a long time since I toured the Alabama. I hope it's still intact. Who I am mildly worried for is the NAS-P guys, I know they cleaned out a lot of the guys but I figure they leave a small contingent there no matter what. I'd hate to catch that assignment.

"You get to guard the museum. It's one big sheet of glass. Stand watch right here, in the lobby. Nice knowing you. Heh."
 
2005-07-10 06:10:13 PM  
erewhon You get to guard the museum

Oh, yeah! I'd forgotten about that place. I graduated from TSU on the carrier deck there.

There were about 40 folks sheltered in the 'Bama, down in what looked like one of the mess spaces - their own generators, watching DVD's in the A/C, probably ice cream from the gedunk for all I know. They did the same thing in Ivan, said they couldn't even hear the damn storm. Too cool.
 
2005-07-11 01:28:20 AM  
Yossarian Lives!:
Yes, ArcLight, you have it exactly right.

Yes, I do. Of course, I didn't actually say any of that stuff in your post, but don't let that bother you.

You live in your delusional little faerie world. I'll choose reality.

I'll have more fun.
 
2005-07-11 07:35:22 AM  
ArcLight. I was going to explain a little concept called sarcasm to you, but it's probably not allowed in your little world. For the record, though, you have it exactly wrong.

And if by "fun" you mean "no inclination to use intellect and live in a world of imagination", then I expect you're right about that. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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