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(eMediaWire)   Toronto to hold UFO conference. Plans on demanding full government disclosure of UFO information, just like every other UFO convention for the last three decades   (emediawire.com) divider line 146
    More: Obvious  
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1460 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2005 at 1:10 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-09 05:09:10 PM  
2005-07-09 04:58:13 PM MediaAreAllHacks

"Oh yeah, trip to moon, same thing. That the gov't might be capable of attempting such a deception for political gain I have no issues with, but that they could keep it secret? gimme a break (this is ignoring all other evidence as well of course).


Oh it's quite simple. They went to the moon. AND they made a fake video of it. Why? two-fold answer:

1. If they failed. The russians were too close (with interesting theories of possible sabotage of their last few attempts), they had to make it on this attempt. If they didn't, air the video.

2. If they did make it, the picture quality would be awful, therefore, the next day's newspapers would have front pages without blurry, crappy photos (think of the recent comet collision's pictures for the first few minutes, if you've seen them). Since this was not just a race to reach a goal for humanity, but also a contest between the two combatants of the cold war, a better set of images would be required for the media/propaganda victory.

Interesting documentary covering point #2 is (i believed) called dark side of the moon. It's a documentary with the late Stanley Kubrick's wife where she claims that she found documentation (which is shown) in his "vault" supporting the notion that SK did the fake moon landing video for NASA in exchange for a one of a kind lens which he used to make 2001:ASO.
 
2005-07-09 05:11:36 PM  
RandomHero

I'm guessing you didn't watch the last few minutes of that documentary.. :)
 
2005-07-09 05:11:41 PM  
RandomHero

They need public support to have the government release documentation. Therefore, they need media support to reach the public.

I agree with you on that point. Funding follows the flash, as it were, so I give them credit for that.

is security so outdated that we can't give out information from the 70's, the 80's, hell even the 90's?

Most stuff is declassified within time constraints, as it's a real pain in the tuchus to maintain classified files. Sometimes, though, it's likely to stay locked up - such as most of the documentation from the Manhattan Project. Even after 60 years, that stuff would be way too helpful for certain Evil Axis countries.
 
2005-07-09 05:13:08 PM  
2005-07-09 05:03:02 PM Yossarian Lives!

I'll respectfully disagree with you there. Having worked in and around the US military for over 20 years, I can tell you without reservation that your assumptions are incorrect. I see the security lapses nearly every day and if the military is indeed a wee bit smarter, then I truly feel bad for the other departments of Uncle Sam.


I speak of the upper echelon (as I don't imagine seeing gomer pile discussing interstellar travel with alf) when discussing UFO's. However, since I have no reason not to, I'll take your word on it.
 
2005-07-09 05:15:56 PM  
2005-07-09 05:11:36 PM Exocet

RandomHero

I'm guessing you didn't watch the last few minutes of that documentary.. :)


To be perfectly honest, I don't remember. I saw it a year or two ago, and I just remember the basics. I'm guessing (from the smiley) that they faked it.. if so.. damn that was boring for a fake. At least Fubar was funny.
 
2005-07-09 05:17:55 PM  
Check the spoilers here..

It was well done, though. I enjoyed it.
 
2005-07-09 05:18:13 PM  
RandomHero

I speak of the upper echelon...

I can't vouch for the flag ranks, but at some point in that whole huge process, they would need some lowly enlisted guys doing the grunt work, even if it would be dusting the filing cabinets. No general is going to be buffing floors or changing the light bulbs in the Alien Body Vault, you know.
 
2005-07-09 05:18:51 PM  
"it's likely to stay locked up - such as most of the documentation from the Manhattan Project. Even after 60 years, that stuff would be way too helpful for certain Evil Axis countries."

Now that's information I can see as being sensitive to national security. Speaking of City based projects, whats the deal with the Philadelphia experiment? Anyone know if any of that was legit? (and I don't mean the movie).
 
2005-07-09 05:20:29 PM  
2005-07-09 05:18:13 PM Yossarian Lives!

"No general is going to be buffing floors or changing the light bulbs in the Alien Body Vault, you know."


Unless you're the No. 3 guy in Al Quaeda!

/Had to say it.
//Your point is very valid though.
 
2005-07-09 05:22:02 PM  
RandomHero

Oh, and, Bob & David *rule*. :)
 
2005-07-09 05:22:41 PM  
Exocet,

Thanks for the link.. Im going to go clean this egg of my face now.

:)

At least it was during the credits, I don't tend to watch those very often. Make's me feel a tiny bit less dumb.
 
2005-07-09 05:24:48 PM  
RandomHero: If it makes you feel any better, I've watched it twice. The first time, I completely missed the credits too :) Needless to say, I felt a little dumb watching it the second time.. heh.
 
2005-07-09 05:25:24 PM  
Exocet

"Oh, and, Bob & David *rule*. :)"

Excellent! The Bob will be pleased. This kind of behaviour is sure to send you up Heaven's chimney.
 
2005-07-09 05:26:18 PM  
RandomHero

Unless you're the No. 3 guy in Al Quaeda!

OK, now you owe me a new vodka tonic!

I don't know fark-all about the Philadelphia experiment. The movie is the extent of my knowledge, but I'd be interested to hear more about that one. Sounds like a good History Channel project there. Charge 'em royalties if they take your idea, though!
 
2005-07-09 05:27:01 PM  
 
2005-07-09 05:27:04 PM  
2005-07-09 05:24:48 PM Exocet

RandomHero: If it makes you feel any better, I've watched it twice. The first time, I completely missed the credits too :) Needless to say, I felt a little dumb watching it the second time.. heh.

- I just can't believe I told people about this in public.. on the internet is one thing.. but in public.. doh!

I gotta admit, getting his wife, rumsfeld and kissinger really gives it some credibility.
 
2005-07-09 05:28:25 PM  
Oh, definitely. I really don't know how he managed to convince them to do it. I was fooled right up til the end.
 
2005-07-09 05:30:22 PM  
2005-07-09 05:26:18 PM Yossarian Lives!

"I don't know fark-all about the Philadelphia experiment. The movie is the extent of my knowledge, but I'd be interested to hear more about that one. Sounds like a good History Channel project there. Charge 'em royalties if they take your idea, though!"

I'll get Oliver Stone to direct it, what could possibly go wrong?
 
2005-07-09 05:38:54 PM  
RandomHero

I'll get Oliver Stone to direct it, what could possibly go wrong?

Just a hunch, but I'd bet he comes up with something like "Oswald acted alone."

/OK, Ollie, time to lower the meds, baby
 
2005-07-09 05:50:24 PM  
2005-07-09 05:38:54 PM Yossarian Lives!

Just a hunch, but I'd bet he comes up with something like "Oswald acted alone."

Who knew he spent all that time at the book depository reading up teleportation?

And for no particular reason.. im calling it a day with my favorite simpsons quote:

Marge - Homer! i've got someone who can help you
Homer - Is it Batman?
Marge - It's a scientist!
Homer - Batman's a scientist?
Marge - It's not Batman!

/Have a good weekend all
 
2005-07-09 05:58:34 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

I see the security lapses nearly every day and if the military is indeed a wee bit smarter, then I truly feel bad for the other departments of Uncle Sam.


scratches head and tries to think how to say this without being the pot calling the kettle black


I think it gets harder to have a really good security lapse for technical stuff because no-one understands what got leaked. A second level is, the leaks are a little here, a little there, and no-one tries to put them together. Or can't, because they don't understand what's being done, or why, or who would be involved in something like that as personnel.

There's also intentionally induced noise, that is, if you have something you don't want leaked from people near but not on the project, you insert leaks that are believable but untrue. A side effect benefit of that is that the nature of the leakage can be used to identify the leak source. e.g., if you have your gravitic anomalizer in the shed, then you tell the guards its a goat killing death ray, and you drag a mangled goat past them and toss it in the dumpster with cryptic comments, then you lay back and wait to see if the death ray stories crop up. You tell the REMFs ordering stuff that it's a laser or something, and see if you get laser stories. Or you can use bogus project names as tags for leak tracing.

Just a whole lot of stuff is out in the open, like the Purloined Letter. You have to understand how object/effect X is used in order to "get" the point of the publication.

Um, there was a series of somewhat publicized seminars sponsored by a certain military branch in the last two years, in which they basically jonesed for concepts of what to do with a certain non-existent technology, if you had it. It was covered with loud snickering and "what a waste of my tax money!" carping on Fark at least twice. You had to "get" the other piece of the puzzle to understand the joke...the tech DID exist. Grant you, there was a concerted and quite effective effort in the presentation to distract your attention from the possibility. The "given you had this" part of "what would you do with it?" was very misleading, but in a crafty way so that the answers you got would still probably be useful. So, haha, we ended up with a lot of possibly useful weapon system concept inputs.

Hell, even on Fark you see stuff that is definitely 100% still classified, if you knew who to listen to and when.

Sometimes, though, it's likely to stay locked up - such as most of the documentation from the Manhattan Project. Even after 60 years, that stuff would be way too helpful for certain Evil Axis countries.

Actually, a lot of that is out if you know where to look, and what to ignore. Some of it is intentionally wrong, just a little, and some of it is still classified, like solid initiator design documents. Interesting side note, there are a number of Farkers that are now or were LANL. One active Farker writes hydrocodes for bomb simulations. There's a one-time bomb maintenance tech that's pretty active.
 
2005-07-09 06:17:12 PM  
"The point I neglected to make is that the burden of proof is on the shoulders of the UFO-beleivers. As I said before, you can hardly prove something DOESN'T exist. If you make the claim that something is "real", then it's up to you to show that your assertion is true. And don't hide behind conspiracy theories - that's the lazy way out of it."

The problem with the burden of proof is this: thousands of people witnessed and filmed a bunch of orbs that flew in a consistent group (the individual orbs stayed in the same place). THOUSANDS of people (that have seen balloons before, I'm sure). Both Yossarian Lives! and G2V looked at a crappy, short video of the event and immediately wrote it off as balloons. When that is the extent of the research on the part of skeptics, who really cares what you think. What's next? Are you going to conclude that though there were thousands of people they were all Mexicans, so they don't know what they are talking about or are "easily frightened"?

Why don't you both look into the event a little more before you declare to everyone on FARK that they are simply balloons?

I saw one of these orbs over Portland some years ago, in the daylight, on a cloudless day. It stayed in exactly one spot, without moving, for two hours. I watched it with 12 people, two of them were former pilots (one was a former airforce pilot). We estimated the height to be 20-30,000 feet. After about an hour, the orb emitted a much smaller orb, that was basically a ball of light. The light hovered for a few seconds and flew off at a high rate of speed, changing directions very quickly before it was out of view.

Someone on the other side of Portland photographed the event, and contacted MUFON. According to this witness (who was able to observe it much longer) the orb let out a total of 7 objects. When he snapped his photo, 4 of them were captured in the same photo as the larger orb (it was three years ago, so it would take some searching to find the photo...but you'd just declare it was a balloon anyway).

I was blown away. When the smaller object was emmitted, 3 of the people in the group I was in turned around and left, seemingly unable to deal with how abnormal the whole situation was.

So there you have it, multiple witnesses, two were pilots, another witness photographed it from across town, and none of us claimed it was from another world or had some mass delusion brought on by how strange it was. Immediately after the event, however, my mind was forever changed about whether or not were are alone. It was the only thing I could find to explain a metallic craft that can stay motionless in one spot for hours while emitting "flying light orbs" that were able to change directions at a very high rate of speed.

What happened to the craft? It dissappeared and reappeared closer to the horizon, then slowly moved out of our range of site.
 
2005-07-09 06:17:48 PM  
In your mind you have capacities you know
To telepath messages through the vast unknown
Please close your eyes and concentrate
With every thought you think
Upon the recitation we're about to sing

Calling occupants of interplanetary craft.
Calling occupants of interplanetary, most extraordinary craft.


/ prefers "The Carpenters" version of this song over the original by "Klaatu."
// no, I'm not advocating. I just like the ditty in question.
 
2005-07-09 06:24:09 PM  
erewhon

You have to understand how object/effect X is used in order to "get" the point of the publication.

Oh, agreed. That's why we are constantly harped upon for OPSEC just as much as we are on other aspects of security. "Open" pieces of the puzzle can help connect other things together. True story: Some dumbasses I worked with were TDY and having dinner when they started chatting with a couple of younger women. They bragged about the work they were doing, how cool it was, etc., in vain hopes of getting laid. They got called into the colonel's office the following week, and (you saw this one coming), the cute chicks were really OSI agents who had taped the whole thing. Nothing classified was leaked, but it was senstitive information - what was once called EEFI.

Still, there has been so much scrutiny over Roswell in the last 20 years, that someone surely would have put those seemingly unrelated things together by now. Even non-tech things would have slipped by now - logistics or operations or any other seemingly mundane thing. It's just too hard to keep something like that quiet.

But that's the dilemma, isn't it? It's one of those things that, by their very nature, can't be disproved. We can't prove that a classified project never leaked if we don't know that it existed in the first place. That's why conspiracy theories will never die. It's a circular argument.

I have a lot of respect for LANL folks, in spite of all the poor press lately. There are some great folks working there. I'd hate to work in THAT tight of a security environment, though.
 
2005-07-09 06:53:01 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

True story: Some dumbasses I worked with were TDY and having dinner when they started chatting with a couple of younger women. They bragged about the work they were doing, how cool it was, etc., in vain hopes of getting laid. They got called into the colonel's office the following week, and (you saw this one coming), the cute chicks were really OSI agents who had taped the whole thing. Nothing classified was leaked, but it was senstitive information - what was once called EEFI.

Heh. Here in Pensacola you see a lot of ONI at times in different entertainment establishments. It's not unusual to be in a 'technical' conversation with someone and have someone else join in/sit near/perk up their ears. Beware of new buddies buying drinks, I always say. I don't recall the thread but another farker and I had a long threadjack on bar boojums a few months back.

I remember one long ago (not here) where we were talking about something we were working on over drinks (it was a military town), and this guy came over and started the usual crapola:

************ semi true story *******************

"wow that sounds interesting, where do you guys work ...you're in civvies, but could be mil by appearance, are you in my jurisdiction?"

"around, here and there what's it to ya, bub?"

"do you guys work out at [base]? I'll try a different tack I hear they work on real weird shiat, maybe even [topic] I'll solicit you to disclose if you won't do it voluntarily"

"wow, do you think so? (looks innocent) well, yeah, we're there as consultants on a project. But we can't talk about it, it's real secret. how far will you go, bub?"

"gotcha, you ARE in my jurisdiction, civilian trash Gee, do you know if it's true if [topic]? I saw something over by [location] one night, and then I saw stuff on the net about it that say it's [cover story 1], but I don't know if maybe it's not [cover story 2]. Come on, you can tell me if I'm close, can't you? spill it fat boy"

"ok, uh, what's your name?"

"John Smith"

"hang on, John. (stands up, yells) JOHN'S A BOOJUM! JOHN'S A BOOJUM! DON'T TRUST JOHN, HE'S AFOSI! HE'S OVER HERE SOLICITING SECURE INFORMATION! (sits)"

"any other questions, mr afosi?"

"GADAMIT you just farked me over!"

"and you were trying to do what to me? "
*****************************

On the Roswell thing, who knows? If there was something, you know they'd be covering as much as they could. And spreading so much disinfo that was almost correct that you'd never be able to separate the sheep from the goats later.

OTOH, there's plenty of other stuff that is real interesting that's related, and is more real/more locatable and definable than something as old as Roswell. I think the UFOlogists are wasting their time on the one while ignoring the other, but that's probably the point too. Every once in a while you see a book that's probably officially sanctioned that keeps the old roswell fires burning. I think it's a big distraction to cover up what's going on, and what's going on is actually a very interesting experimental alternative propulsion method. But that's just my opinion. What do I know?
 
2005-07-09 07:14:18 PM  
erewhon

JOHN'S A BOOJUM! JOHN'S A BOOJUM!

I haven't hear that term for those guys before - but it fits! I like it! hehhehheh.

Time to call it quits for a while. She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed wants to use the machine for a bit.

Saw Dennis is back up to Cat 3 and climbing. If you're staying in P-cola, keep your head down there, mate. (Damn glad I don't live in FWB anymore!) Stay safe.
 
2005-07-09 07:22:19 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

I haven't hear that term for those guys before - but it fits! I like it! hehhehheh.

Yeah, they look like the common snark, but if they get you, you softly and silently vanish away.

The family is away to the 'bold new city' of Jackson, MS, I'm staying until it's obvious if it's going to hit or not. If it looks like it will, I'm away. If not, I'll stay. Like Ishmael, I alone am left to tell the tale.
 
2005-07-09 07:40:56 PM  
I find it interesting that when the General Accounting Office, GOA, looked into the Roswell incident they reported every record pertaining to that day in Roswell was missing persumed destroyed. So if it was nothing why are the records "missing"? Also why are so many records in Operation Bluebook still redacted?
 
2005-07-09 08:47:55 PM  
I couldn't resist popping back in for a moment...

cargrrl82

I find it interesting that when the General Accounting Office, GOA, looked into the Roswell incident they reported every record pertaining to that day in Roswell was missing persumed destroyed.

I happen to have a copy of the Roswell Report here beside me, and you've been mininformed about "all" of the records missing. They do list a small amount of documents that are missing, but there is a very extensive list of records that are still available, and were subsequently searched. This is an 8.5" x 11" book, roughly 2.5" thick, with tons of photocopies of original documents, diaries, drawings, etc.

It was a research balloon with radar targets launched from Holloman AFB. There was no flying saucer crash.

I can't comment on Project Bluebook, since I haven't studied anything there, but the Roswell Report did look through Bluebook records and found absolutely no mention of Roswell in there. Remember, the "Roswell Incident" didn't become an "event" until a National Enquirer article in 1978 turned it into a media myth.
 
2005-07-09 10:39:36 PM  
So, Yossarian_Lives...which 'Roswell Report' would that be.

Remember, they've had two different "official" reports (so far) to try and explain the one event. So what if one of those uses events that took place around 5-10 years later to explain it, right?

I dunno what happened in Roswell, but the idea that no one could recognize balloons, no matter their purpose, is less believable to me than the idea of a saucer crash.

On the other hand...I don't really care. I like living in a world with UFOs and ghosts and bigfoots and Nessies and whatever, so I do.

Your mileage may vary.
 
2005-07-10 12:49:44 AM  
Yes, ArcLight, you have it exactly right. We have such a wealth of alien technology that we're still using hideously wasteful chemical rockets for spaceflight, launching incredibly fragile space shuttles that rip apart on re-entry. Not to mention the fact that we suck down millions of gallons of fossil fuels driving around with our internal combustion engines that we obviously didn't start using unitl 1950. And thanks to that wonderful Xaxian technology, we have people all over the world starving and dying of diseases like AIDS and Ebola. We should all thank our alien overlords for these and many other wonderful advances.

You live in your delusional little faerie world. I'll choose reality.
 
2005-07-10 01:17:52 AM  
Given that convo hall's about 50 yards from where I work, I'm wondering what I can do to have fun with this... any ideas?

/thinks that yes, there likely is life elsewhere
/also thinks that no, we haven't been visited - they're probably staring at the sky just like we are
 
2005-07-10 02:30:34 AM  
"I happen to have a copy of the Roswell Report here beside me, and you've been mininformed about "all" of the records missing. They do list a small amount of documents that are missing, but there is a very extensive list of records that are still available, and were subsequently searched. This is an 8.5" x 11" book, roughly 2.5" thick, with tons of photocopies of original documents, diaries, drawings, etc.

It was a research balloon with radar targets launched from Holloman AFB. There was no flying saucer crash.

I can't comment on Project Bluebook, since I haven't studied anything there, but the Roswell Report did look through Bluebook records and found absolutely no mention of Roswell in there. Remember, the "Roswell Incident" didn't become an "event" until a National Enquirer article in 1978 turned it into a media myth."


The thing to keep in mind about the Roswell incident was this: The main witness in the Roswell case was Jesse Marcel. He was a major for the 509th bomber squadron, the most secretive wing of the air force that existed at that time. They were the squad responsible for dropping two atomic weapons on Japan. Marcel himself worked on Project Mogul, and yet, throughout his lifetime Jesse Marcel maintained that what crashed at Roswell in 1947 was no weather balloon. He stated just before his death in a video taped interview "what crashed was not from this world". To say that Marcel was "mistaken" in his description of the debris was an insult to this mans intelligence and professional knowledge, and yet, there it is.

The entire reason for a Roswell Conspiracy was Jesse Marcel. It was his testimonial that led to the investigation in the first place, and EVERYTHING since then is hinged on his original testimony.
 
2005-07-10 09:07:58 AM  
"
We skeptics need the physical, objective things that are real and measurable. "

What about crop circles then ? ehh ? EHH ?
 
2005-07-10 01:29:41 PM  
glenlivid

Not that you'll come back to read this...

On your earlier post, those objects in that crappy video are nothing but balloons. Your claims, based on that same crappy video, that they are alien craft flying in formation shows that you didn't see anything that you didn't want to see. It doesn't take much "analysis" to see the truth of the matter there, yet you accuse me of jumping to a conclusion. Why is it then OK for YOU to jump to the conclusion that they're anything BUT balloons, just because you want it to be something beyond the mundane? You want it to be magical and other-worldly, and it upsets you when someone gives you a boring explanation.

As for your sighting of an orb in a clear, cloudless sky, I'm betting that you saw what is known as a "rockoon". (You go look that up, I'll wait right here.) My main job is on a crew that flies high altitude balloons, at altitudes above 100,000 feet. Some of the balloons are on the order of 10 to 15 million cubic feet. These balloons, at float, expand to a diameter of several hundred feet, and are very visible to the naked eye. Even small ones of 200,000 cubic feet are visible. Without prior knowledge of the size of the object you're seeing, there is no way to "estimate" its altitude without some reference point to compare it with. A pilot is no better judge of that estimate than you are, so your estimate of 20,000 to 30,000 feet has no basis of accuracy. So there YOU have it; you see something out of the ordinary, you don't immediately call it an alien craft, but you don't spend any time looking at any other explanations, either. After a bit of reflection, THEN you go for the "alien answer."

As for Maj. Marcel, he most certainly did NOT work on MOGUL. The 509th had nothing to do with the project, and Marcel was certainly not read into it, nor was he the "main witness" as you claim. It's convenient for the believers that Marcel is dead, and therefore can't refute the claims. But then, you won't listen to reason and will continue to believe this nonsense, no matter what evidence you're given.

On the day that aliens land somewhere like Central Park, grant an interview with Katie Couric or go on Oprah, I will believe it.
 
2005-07-10 02:13:45 PM  
1692: "Of course there's witches! Everyone knows they are conspiring with the devil to take our seed and reek havoc on this good, godly community. Last night I saw Goody Tucker flying on a broomstick and then transform herself into vapor..."

1916: "Of course there's fairies! Everyone knows these little pixies exist in trees. There's photographic proof of them, I swear, and everyone within the community swears of their existence. Last night, PC Cromwell was doing his rounds when he saw them dancing on a tree limb..."

2005: "Of course there's UFOs! Everyone knows that human beings cannot be the only intelligent life form in the universe. There's plenty of proof of their existence in pictures and photographs, and the governments of the world are covering it up! Last night, my uncle Jeb was driving through St. Cloud when he saw one of those things floating above the freeway with little egg-shaped men walking below..."

Human beings are such an interesting species.

Yossarian Lives! has hit it in the nail in each one of his posts.
 
2005-07-10 03:14:51 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

You want it to be magical and other-worldly, and it upsets you when someone gives you a boring explanation.


Bingo. Not just glenlivid either. This is pretty much standard for the entire MUFON community. They're not interested in UFO's per se, only extraterrestrial UFOs. If something ends up having a mundane explanation, even if that explanation is itself amazing or instructive, then it's a coverup or totally uninteresting. Because the "aliens are coming to save us from ourselves"/"aliens are coming to kill and eat us" factor is gone.



The 509th had nothing to do with the project, and Marcel was certainly not read into it, nor was he the "main witness" as you claim.

You're probably going to have to explain "being read onto" a project for the unwashed masses. Heh. Remember, few here have ever signed NDA's, or been read onto anything, or held up their little paws and recited that oath.


******* Semi true story ************

There's a USAP in the southeast that was a more-or-less abandoned civilian facility. It was bought by someone at MacDill very indirectly to serve as a sort of MOUT trainer. More I cannot say. But, they ran off the locals that had cut the fence and were using the land to hunt on (illegally) and did a lot of construction work there to further the development of the thing. Since they didn't want to give away a lot of what was going on there, a lot of the stuff was carried in by helicopter at night, there was some blasting work to put in little runways and so on. Suddenly, there was this story that it was a UFO base o' doom that cropped up amongst the townies.

I don't know if that was intentional or not, I certainly hope it wasn't, but everyone started seeing LGM's, 'black triangles', reptilians, death ray beams, Russians, UN death commandos and whatnot. I'm surprised they didn't see Nessie and some Sasquatches while they were at it. To this day it is the home of evil death rays, and scalar mind control beams, and from the reports, it's like LaGuardia Interstellar UFO airport from the traffic.

The moral of the story being, anytime something's going on that people don't understand, they think someone's out to get them. And then the thing starts feeding on itself, and everyone's imagination kicks in, and any semblance of sense goes out the window. There's also a bigger proportion of the populace than you might want to believe that actually SEES stuff that's just not there. It's real to them. But these guys can see a set of marker lights on a helicopter when the wind's carrying the sound away from them, and by god it's a UFO. Then their imagination fills in the missing bits and it's a BLACK TRIANGLE!! And I SAW IT!!
 
2005-07-10 03:24:01 PM  
Good points, DVHookster. Myths are hard to kill, and you can bet that there are still some people who believe in witches and pixies and dryads and whatnot. If nothing else, humans are indeed interesting.
 
2005-07-10 03:31:05 PM  
Amen, Yossarian. Amen.
 
2005-07-10 03:52:49 PM  
erewhon

First, hope you've battened the hatches there. I'm watching the Weather Wonks. A part of me would love to see Jim Cantore (sp?) get whacked upside the melon with an airborne Spanish tile. (And why would you put Spanish tiles on a roof in a hurricane zone??) Navarre beach was my favorite place to go back in the day - it has a special place in my heart, and it hurts to think what is happening there right now.

Second, I love your "base 'o doom" story. I've only known a couple of times where a cover story was employed to "hide" things. One was what the various test ranges listed as the "Advanced A-7" on their schedules, but everyone knew that it was a dark project. Turned out to be the F-117.

We still do balloon flights out of Roswell, on the old Walker AFB ramp. We fly a stuffed green alien one of us bought in the "museum" there on every flight - he's our "pilot," as it were. I always wonder how many folks mistake our balloons for something else. We also still have two of the old anthropomorphic dummies sitting around. We use them only for practical jokes now. Damn things are creepy looking, though. When you walk into a room where one is sitting, even if you know it's there, it still makes you jump a little. heh

Back to watching Anderson Cooper trying to get decapitated! Woot!
 
2005-07-10 04:45:17 PM  
Yossarian Lives!: First, hope you've battened the hatches there.


Nah, I fled about 1AM when it became painfully obvious that my sacrifices to the stray cat god weren't going to deflect the storm. I'm at our temporary family headquarters in Jackson MS at the moment.

I don't think they promulgated the story. I don't think they did. It would have been more trouble than it was worth, IMO. What I think is that the locals were seeing shiathooks or some other heavy lifters flying in graders and pallets of construction materials at night, and voila! it's a black triangle base.

Then they put Wackenhuts all round, and while they were probably nicer than they had to be, it was still a real surprise to the locals, who were using it for the happy hunting grounds.

A few guys went into town on the odd occasion as well, and given the normal sense of humor probably started the 'UN invader' thing by switching to Farsi or German to discuss some woman's ass right in front of her. Now you got yer Rooskies comin' into town, don'cha know. And of course, given their senses of humor, once that gets started, you got to keep it up, at least until you get in trouble for it.

Then there was the radio station incident.

In the end, you got your townies and the mounting legend of the secret reptilian base, and the thing itself which is probably one of the most brilliant re-uses of an abandoned piece of real estate I've ever seen.

But everyone around there misinterprets EVERYTHING they see. It HAS to be UFO's. That can't be a helicopter, it's a black triangle. That isn't a dozen guys in BDU's and camo getting ready to stage an assault on the trainer, it's a Rooskie UN invasion team practicing capturing our water tower. Those guys in the Zodiac buzzing up the river in camo, that's a Rooskie amphibious assault team. That's not a searchlight at night, it's a death beam. Cause you know, it's just not as fun if it's a training facility.
 
2005-07-10 05:34:00 PM  
erewhon

it's just not as fun if it's a training facility.

hehheh. Let me guess, they probably had a few AH-6's zooming around for good measure, too. Nothing says "New World Order" like a Lil' Bird.

Good on ya' for bugging out. It would be a hoot to ride one out on the USS Alabama, though. Hope you didn't get much damage.
 
2005-07-10 05:58:02 PM  
Yossarian Lives!:

hehheh. Let me guess, they probably had a few AH-6's zooming around for good measure, too. Nothing says "New World Order" like a Lil' Bird.


AH-6's. Heh. That's the right guys, for sure.

It's been a long time since I toured the Alabama. I hope it's still intact. Who I am mildly worried for is the NAS-P guys, I know they cleaned out a lot of the guys but I figure they leave a small contingent there no matter what. I'd hate to catch that assignment.

"You get to guard the museum. It's one big sheet of glass. Stand watch right here, in the lobby. Nice knowing you. Heh."
 
2005-07-10 06:10:13 PM  
erewhon You get to guard the museum

Oh, yeah! I'd forgotten about that place. I graduated from TSU on the carrier deck there.

There were about 40 folks sheltered in the 'Bama, down in what looked like one of the mess spaces - their own generators, watching DVD's in the A/C, probably ice cream from the gedunk for all I know. They did the same thing in Ivan, said they couldn't even hear the damn storm. Too cool.
 
2005-07-11 01:28:20 AM  
Yossarian Lives!:
Yes, ArcLight, you have it exactly right.

Yes, I do. Of course, I didn't actually say any of that stuff in your post, but don't let that bother you.

You live in your delusional little faerie world. I'll choose reality.

I'll have more fun.
 
2005-07-11 07:35:22 AM  
ArcLight. I was going to explain a little concept called sarcasm to you, but it's probably not allowed in your little world. For the record, though, you have it exactly wrong.

And if by "fun" you mean "no inclination to use intellect and live in a world of imagination", then I expect you're right about that. Whatever floats your boat.
 
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