If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(eMediaWire)   Toronto to hold UFO conference. Plans on demanding full government disclosure of UFO information, just like every other UFO convention for the last three decades   (emediawire.com) divider line 146
    More: Obvious  
•       •       •

1460 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jul 2005 at 1:10 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



146 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2005-07-09 10:43:01 AM  
I was all giddy when The Disclosure Project came around...then poof, nothing came of it
/sad
 
2005-07-09 10:45:27 AM  
So.....the Canadian government knows something too??

/thats why they filmed the x-files there....
/dons tin foil hat
 
2005-07-09 10:45:32 AM  
Are they going to demand the Canadian Government give full disclosure? I imagine it will be something like "There's nothing to report. Have another beer, eh?"
 
2005-07-09 11:38:28 AM  


oh, fark me.
 
2005-07-09 11:47:55 AM  


/This means something
//I don't know what
///Not Canadian
 
2005-07-09 01:16:06 PM  
I think they should stop begging for gov't info and find out what the government knows on their own. They could break into the "Area 51" of Canada. If there are enough of them, a few will make it in when the guards run out of bullets.

/i'm bored
 
2005-07-09 01:17:09 PM  
Phil Mogg surrenders.
 
2005-07-09 01:33:18 PM  
Yet, at the same time... a lot of South American countries/governments are pretty open about the UFO phenomenon...

Hell, there was a HUGE FLEET OF UFO's that flew over Mexico City a few weeks ago. THOUSANDS witnessed this. Some even produced video of it...

Move along folks, NOTHING to see here.
 
2005-07-09 01:37:52 PM  
Some interesting links to catch everyone up to where this kind of discussion is at, before the flame wars begin.

Project Blue Book, the government's official inquiry into the "UFO phenomenon", with 701 cases classified as "unexplained".

The Alcubierre warp drive, a theoretical means of going faster than light (FTL). This idea has had some fallout and still is in active discussion, check out the modification to reduce the total theoretical energy requirements, another take on the idea, and some discussion.

And finally, going a little far-out here, something I discovered a little while back, a really bizarre transcript of a supposed written conversation between a "far-foreigner" and some UFO group. Interesting ideas in there, even if it's unprovable to be true. (At least, until some of the predictions made in it are proved.) It also makes specific mention of "large black silent triangular craft" which there have been a plethora of sightings of since the supposed dates of this interchange. ::dons tinfoil hat::

Lastly, a personal rant. If you ever find yourself saying "x is impossible", please rephrase as "we have not yet figured out a way to show that x is possible, given what we know now." Too many people have historically been proven wrong by saying "x is impossible." That is all ;)
 
2005-07-09 01:40:05 PM  
Those UFO's in purplesmoke420's video look like Balloons, June 14th, isn't that around High School graduation time?

I thought so.
 
2005-07-09 01:41:43 PM  
Hydrostatic_Equilibrium

Go down to Mexico City - I'm sure plenty of people will talk to you about their experiences.
 
2005-07-09 01:44:04 PM  
Oh, forgot. I love to chat about this stuff. I have a specific curiosity about the psychology of "an event that challenges your worldview", no matter what form that takes. Fact is that people will go so far as kill to protect their worldview (see: any religious fundamentalist), and fears about your worldview not being quite right are deep-seated. if you have any thoughts on any of this stuff, please feel free to email me (see profile).

My background: First a physics major, then CS, then psychology, specializing in perception. Dabbled in philosophy and world religion. Currently a consultant in a Big 4 firm by day, challenger of the status quo by night ;)
 
2005-07-09 01:45:17 PM  
Hydrostatic_Equilibrium

I know you're a skeptic and all - but how to you account for the fact that these "balloons" are all moving at the same speed, and in the same formation throughout? Is that possible when you release a shiatload of balloons up in to the air?

/just asking
 
2005-07-09 01:46:51 PM  
Someone films a few hundred balloons obviously floating by and this becomes evidence of UFO's. My god that is unbelieveably pathetic.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 01:48:51 PM  
1) The only two things the government is likely to have learned about UFOs are jack and shiat.

2) If they do know something you don't know, they also have people who's entire job is telling you whatever you'd like in such a way that you never ever learn anything.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 01:50:11 PM  
purplesmoke420
I know you're a skeptic and all - but how to you account for the fact that these "balloons" are all moving at the same speed, and in the same formation throughout? Is that possible when you release a shiatload of balloons up in to the air?

Presumably they are all riding the same air current. I'd find it far more strange if the balloons were moving at different speeds and different directions, evidence of some mobility other than natural.
 
2005-07-09 01:50:45 PM  
purplesmoke420

regarding the link to videos of recent gigantic fleet of... somethings... in broad daylight, over mexico city...

Didn't even hear about that till now. Holy sheeit. Hello, US media? Was this reported over here?

/and i already sorta think this stuff is extraterrestrial, still shocking
//also saw War of the Worlds last night
///still think they're slowly trying to desensitize us to the idea
 
2005-07-09 01:51:26 PM  
purplesmoke420, that's some awesome footage of a bunch of balloons!

The parts I particularly like are the quotes from the article saying: ...the 'balloon' explanation was quickly discarded because of the patterns flown by the whole mass of UFOs, and it's synchronyzed flight path - a classic feature of a UFO flotilla. "Synchronized flight path" smacks heavily of something known as "wind".

And here's another: Pedro Avila made an analysis of a zoomed frame of one object and confirmed it had no cord attached and its shape was not that of a common balloon.

What is the shape of a "common balloon?" Why, it would be:...metallic, sphere shaped and shinning in the sun.(sic - from earlier in the text).
 
2005-07-09 01:54:04 PM  
Wait... I take it all back. Aliens who obviously have never desired to be discovered, decide to fly by in broad daylight over the most populated city in the world. Makes perfect sense to me now. I am a believer. I even know where some of the fleet are hiding out. I saw a bunch of them disguised as mylar balloons at Party City a few weeks ago. I heard they are so advanced that the only thing that will bring their ship down is a BB from a Daisy 881.
 
2005-07-09 01:54:14 PM  
re: balloons-

yeah, was this ruled out? as well as anything else it might be? i guess i just figured the mexican media would have ruled that sort of simple explanation out. wouldn't that be a huge risk for the media, to report on this and then find out it actually was a bunch of silver helium balloons, unless they were to verify first?

/feels gullible anyway, oh well
 
2005-07-09 01:55:48 PM  
DrinkDifferent

Holy sheeit. Hello, US media? Was this reported over here?

Generally, a cluster of helium balloons isn't considered newsworthy, unless it's a really, really slow news day.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 01:56:48 PM  
DrinkDifferent

yeah, was this ruled out? as well as anything else it might be? i guess i just figured the mexican media would have ruled that sort of simple explanation out. wouldn't that be a huge risk for the media, to report on this and then find out it actually was a bunch of silver helium balloons, unless they were to verify first?

Media make ridiculous assertions worldwide and are called on them daily. I've yet to see them brought to their knees by it.

And that is pretty gullible, to assume an unidentified object in the sky means aliens, no offense. Even if it isn't balloons, there must be a great many far more likely explanations.
 
2005-07-09 01:57:47 PM  
G2V

Presumably they are all riding the same air current.

So, all of these ballons - the many thousands of them, are all on the same current - yet they stay EXACTLY the same formation as they fly over. Seriously, you'd think that there would be an odd gust of wind here and there that would at least change the formation of the balloons a little bit. What about the fact that none of these "balloons" have popped?

If anything, someone should release a whole bunch of balloons in to the air and see if they can reproduce this formation.
 
2005-07-09 01:59:14 PM  
I want to believe.

Where's that pic?
 
G2V
2005-07-09 02:03:01 PM  
plesmoke420

So, all of these ballons - the many thousands of them, are all on the same current - yet they stay EXACTLY the same formation as they fly over. Seriously, you'd think that there would be an odd gust of wind here and there that would at least change the formation of the balloons a little bit. What about the fact that none of these "balloons" have popped?


What do you think causes wind to gust in different directions? I'd say primary causes are terrain and obstacles, neither of which is highly prominent in the sky. Ever watch a cloud? It all tends to move the same direction, not randomly rip itself apart in various angles. Ever watch plane vapor trails? They tend to spread out in the same pattern, not disorganize into lots of jagged little lines.

What are you expecting to pop the balloons? Bumblebees?

As far as "Exactly" and "none" I haven't seen the video, but I have my doubts as to the analytical prowress of anyone who assumes "White object = alien", none of those pictures depict the same "formation" to me, and frankly none of them depict a "Formation" at all, unless formation means "random grouping," are we supposed to assume the aliens decided to make their first grand impression by showing us their flight school rejects?
 
2005-07-09 02:03:34 PM  
purplesmoke420

So, all of these ballons - the many thousands of them...

Umm, the "almost 40 objects" stated in the "article" don't exactly make "many thousands". And, from what I saw, they didn't stay in an exact formation. They move in relation to each other, behaving exactly like balloons would.

I hereby invite you to Albuquerque to watch how many hundreds of balloons fly together.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 02:07:36 PM  
I have to agree with Yossarian Lives!

I just watched the "Extended home video footage." Pick out any group of balloons that are close together and watch, they don't remain exactly the same, they move around, exactly as nonuniform objects would that are all obeying a prevailing wind current.
 
2005-07-09 02:13:20 PM  
sullyman

Wait... I take it all back. Aliens who obviously have never desired to be discovered, decide to fly by in broad daylight over the most populated city in the world. Makes perfect sense to me now. I am a believer.

If you were an alien race - flew millions of light years through space and came upon a planet inhabited with life forms that were at a turning point of their civilization - a point in which they could soon be traveling/conquering the stars themselves - why WOULDN'T you make yourself known to them?

Well - IMO - If they were to just come down and say "TA-DA! HERE WE ARE!!" Guess what? People would freak the fark out! People would launch nukes at eachother, and it would be the end of civilization as we knew it.

Now, instead - the aliens just let us GRADUALLY know that they exist, without fully giving themselves away... little by little - year after year, more of the inhabitants of Earth would start thinking: "Hey, perhaps we aren't the only 'intelligent' lifeform out there" - so they would probably be more willing to accept space alients if they came down and finally made their announcement.

This is why I think aliens haven't come down and already said "hello".

But then again, maybe they're just a bunch of prankster's messin' with our heads... maybe THEY released the balloons.

-ok now i'm just sounding crazy
 
2005-07-09 02:14:30 PM  
ok, the only definitive evidence here would be whether the local airport got the objects on radar- I really doubt that balloons would show up as pings.

Meanwhile, everyone is correct regarding trying to let go of a bunch of silver helium balloons and seeing if they move similarly.

Assumption of ET craft is easy if you think "they" might already be here ;) (I've heard firsthand accounts from reluctant storytellers who only told me because they felt I was open-minded- if you are too skeptical, then nobody's going to tell you shiate for fear of ridicule/dismissal, remember that)
 
2005-07-09 02:21:16 PM  
DrinkDifferent

I've heard firsthand accounts from reluctant storytellers who only told me because they felt I was open-minded

Or because they felt you were gullible! ;)

Personally, I think it's naive to think that we are the ONLY 'intelligent' life out there.
 
2005-07-09 02:22:13 PM  
purplesmoke420

If balloons get far enough away it would seem they kept the same formation. And for moving at the same speed, well, they are pretty much just going up and with the wind.

Funny how just this ONE video was posted, and only a short time was covered. This was duing some public ceremony, so people were bound to have video cameras around.

They pretty much look like balloons to me.
 
2005-07-09 02:23:43 PM  
DrinkDifferent

Well, as someone once said, it takes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You're right; if someone is predisposed to believe in something, then their requirements for proof are considerably lower than someone who is skeptical.
 
2005-07-09 02:26:06 PM  
Teaches me to post without previewing. Should have been: "...as someone once said, extraordinary claims..."
 
2005-07-09 02:27:08 PM  
DrinkDifferent:

It also makes specific mention of "large black silent triangular craft" which there have been a plethora of sightings of since the supposed dates of this interchange. ::dons tinfoil hat::


Um, that Alcubierre thing, wrong, but very interestingly wrong. Also the van Den Broeck (sp?) article, again not quite but close sort of wrong. The other site with the "star lords" stuff was just nuts, though.
 
2005-07-09 02:29:47 PM  
1) The irony is that if we WERE the ONLY life in this so-huge-it's-impossible-to-imagine universe, I think it's pretty strong evidence that there's a God.

2) So you can either be a religious nut and think we're the Chosen Ones, or you can be a... paranormal nut and think we're one of, oh, 600-odd universe-wide intelligent species that are slowly trying to desensitize us to the idea that not only are we not alone, but as an additional blow to our psyche, we're not the first ones to develop the tech to travel the universe... but hey, at least it looks like they would have taken over us by now if they really wanted to, so perhaps they just want to... buy some of our unique music. ;)

3) The true skeptic/atheist should therefore think we might not be alone (along the lines of "anything that seems to hint that God exists, cannot possibly be true"), but there is no way for anyone to reach us in any reasonable amount of time due to the speed-of-light limit. That is, unless you google "Alcubierre" and start to wonder. ;)

The dark side of open-minded is gullible, but the dark side of skeptical is a distinct lack of imagination, and imagination is what drives the world forward.
 
2005-07-09 02:30:44 PM  
 
2005-07-09 02:32:08 PM  
The whole "Fleet of UFOs" takes some gulping down logical objections.

1) Mysterious objects, clearly advanced, doesn't have the sense to stay out of sight, but flies in a group over a city.
2) There is no other videos. If a fleet of UFOs were flying across my sky, I'd STEAL a video to get footage.
3) Their formation is completly random. What fleet flies like that?
 
2005-07-09 02:32:21 PM  
Yossarian Lives!

Well, as someone once said, it takes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I say that extraordinary evidence should provide for an extraordinary investigation.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 02:35:51 PM  
purplesmoke420
Or because they felt you were gullible! ;)

Personally, I think it's naive to think that we are the ONLY 'intelligent' life out there.


It probably is naive to believe that. I certainly don't. Then again I also feel it requires being naive to believe the aliens are visiting us or even interested in us.

Could aliens get to us? Sure, how can we guess the abilities of a race that could be billions of years older than us?

I try to not knock people for believing in alien visitation, even though I think it's quickly becoming reduced to "Boy who cried wolf" irrelevancy in the eyes of just about everyone.

Just the same, look at this case here. What evidence do we have that they are aliens? They're not positively identified.

I don't see anything more than that. I see a lot to discourage the idea. They don't look like they're displaying powered flight, they don't look like they are organized in any "intelligent fashion". Also, while not proof positive, we are pretty far away from everything in the universe, which just makes it more unlikely.

You may think it looks like an intelligent formation, I think it looks nothing like one.

I see no reason to consider this anything more than a mildly interesting occurance, one blown up by enthusiasts to continue the long decline of public interest in "ufo nuts".

I feel sorry for the scientists trying to get funding for finding extraterrestrial signals though.
 
2005-07-09 02:36:37 PM  
erewhon

re: FTL "wrong"ness- Hey, an "interesting" sort of wrong is certainly better than "no way no how would this be possible"- which is exactly what people thought in 1990- Which is exactly my point about nothing being very impossible, we just haven't thought of a way yet ;)

re: "other site" that I linked- Actually, what started to unnerve me about it (other than that ridiculous picture at the top) was the consistent use of "shortcut" non-English words that still were completely comprehensible by any English speaker. Never seen anything like that before or since.
 
2005-07-09 02:38:18 PM  
Oh, and it was Carl Sagan who said that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".

/RIP
//He used to be a prof at Cornell, where I went
 
2005-07-09 02:43:56 PM  
Regarding the link that started this thread...

"The recent disclosure by the Brazilian government and military that UFOs have been tracked and registered for over 50 years is part of the growing disclosure movement underway through the world."

Well, if that's true, then that's certainly interesting, at the very least.

/finally RTFA
 
2005-07-09 02:46:21 PM  
It's Occam's razor at work, people.

Which require less variables?:

1) Some hitherto unobserved phenomena, resemling balloons, amass over a mexican city (and get next to no media coverage). They are only caught on (grainy, zoomed in) video by a couple of people on.

or

2) Balloons.
 
2005-07-09 02:49:19 PM  
purplesmoke420

I say that extraordinary evidence should provide for an extraordinary investigation

But where is the extraordinary evidence? Admittedly, I don't spend a great deal of time investigating UFO claims, but in the 50-plus years of claims (using Roswell as a starting point), where is the concrete, undisputed, peer-reviewed evidence?

And speaking of Roswell, there is a case where an extraordinary investigation, specifically the Roswell Report, was launched by extraordinary claims. And after all the tax $$ spent, we learned that the "event" was caused by Project Mogul. Of course, the "want to believe" crowd disputes those findings, but again offers no extraordinary evidence. It should be much easier to prove something exists than it is to prove that thing doesn't exist.
 
2005-07-09 02:49:49 PM  
one more tidbit (I really gotta go)...

I read somewhere (unfortunately, can't find the link) that the percentage of people in the world who think we're not alone in the universe, has been going up and up for some time now.

Which could serve as evidence that there is in fact some kind of desensitization program underway.

LAST remark: I love this book. It has such a powerful idea regarding emergence of cooperation (or lack thereof) between any two entities. The basic premise is that cooperation will tend to happen, as long as there is an expected opportunity for future interaction. I use this to neutralize the fear that a more powerful entity or entities would automatically want to "take us over" simply because they can- because it might benefit them more long-term not to do so.

That is all.
 
2005-07-09 02:49:57 PM  
G2V

Then again I also feel it requires being naive to believe the aliens are visiting us or even interested in us.

Why do you feel that it is naive of people to think that aliens could be visiting us or even interested in us? Is totally out of the realm of possibility? For all we know, they are just intergalactic "explorers" or "scientists".

Look, people - I don't know if these are balloons or not. I never stated that they ARE aliens or that it is some sort of "intelligent formation". Seeing how these videos/articles that I found are in the same topic as this thread, I figured I would contribute, and see what people had to say about this.

I think a lot of people just brush off the UFO phenomena due to fear of the unknown.
 
2005-07-09 02:50:42 PM  
DrinkDifferent

Regarding the link that started this thread...

"The recent disclosure by the Brazilian government and military that UFOs have been tracked and registered for over 50 years is part of the growing disclosure movement underway through the world."


If by "disclosure" they mean the government saying "yeah, we keep all sort of weird stuff on file, including observations of stuff noone cared about enough to explain yet" then I'm not so rocked in my world view...
 
2005-07-09 02:59:48 PM  
I'm willing to grant that advanced aliens exist (somewhere), and even that they might be interested enough in us to investigate our little slice of heaven.

I will remain highly skeptical that they are able to cross the cosmos to get to us, and yet refuse to make contact even while surfing through our atmosphere.
 
G2V
2005-07-09 03:04:07 PM  
purplesmoke420
Why do you feel that it is naive of people to think that aliens could be visiting us or even interested in us? Is totally out of the realm of possibility? For all we know, they are just intergalactic "explorers" or "scientists".
I think a lot of people just brush off the UFO phenomena due to fear of the unknown.


This is a tactic I see employed a lot, and I find it a bit unfair. I say I consider something highly unlikely, and someone responds to the tune of "It's totally outside the realm of possibility? That's irrational." and then go on to disregard any of the points made with a followup of "fear of the unknown!"

It is things like this which cause these arguments to never end.

I explicitly stated in my post that I do consider it possible, "Could aliens get to us? Sure," so I wonder how far you got before you decided to ignore a contrasting opinion.

Why do I consider it naive? Well, first off, the distances are vast, unimaginably vast. I believe the reason most people believe alien visitation is possible is not because they believe alien technology could be beyond our reckoning, but simply because they fail to understand the distances involved. Even finding us would be incredibly hard, getting here far more so.

Is it possible though? Sure.

Would they be interested? Again I don't know. I think it is a sign of our ignorance, a tunnel vision, if you will, that people always assume aliens will essentially be a weird looking human.

We can imagine all kinds of strange body types, yet the aliens always have understandable human thought types. They're curious, they're hostile, they're explorers and what not. We always just automatically figure aliens will be mentally similar to us. Of course, we have no example of intelligent life that is not like us, so it's easy for people to simply miss the thought altogether.

But I see no reason to assume alien intellects would be even remotely fathomable by us, or operate along interests we can understand.
 
2005-07-09 03:10:02 PM  
Well said, G2V. Nice summation.
 
Displayed 50 of 146 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report