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(Some Physicist)   Warning labels to be inserted into physics textbooks   (bringyou.to ) divider line
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23380 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jul 2005 at 9:35 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-06 11:59:02 PM  
TheSeer: of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.

What an interesting choice of a word.
 
2005-07-07 12:01:16 AM  
smert: Personally I go the agnostic route.

Why be Agnostic, just switch on over to Apatheism where we don't even care anymore.

Apatheism: the religion for people sick of religion.
 
2005-07-07 12:01:26 AM  
St. Apatheism
Got a Dictionary? Look em up. Get your anwser.

Is it entertaining to you to use words you refuse to define?

faith
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

atheist
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

How is one who disbelieves in God expressing faith?
 
2005-07-07 12:03:12 AM  
Which word?
 
2005-07-07 12:05:01 AM  
Franky17: How is one who disbelieves in God expressing faith?

That's not a loaded question, is it?

Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of the idea that God or gods do not exist.

You=pwnt
 
2005-07-07 12:05:13 AM  
St. Apatheism sounds exactly like Graphic Addiction in his "I know everything and you all are asshats b/c I'm so superior, even though I give no proof" mode.

Asshats are as asshats do.
 
2005-07-07 12:05:37 AM  
TheSeer: Which word?

Assume. Sorry, my html skill only has like 10 points in it.
 
2005-07-07 12:07:06 AM  
FarkmeBlind: Asshats are as asshats do.

Actualy I'm a milner of gluteal hattery, I sell them by the dozen with a discount and custom to order if one is so interested.
 
2005-07-07 12:10:19 AM  
St. Apatheism
Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of the idea that God or gods do not exist.

Disbelief
Refusal or reluctance to believe.

"I am reluctant to believe in God." is not the same as "I believe God does not exist."

An "atheist" can be someone who makes either of the two statements above.

Some non-atheists may make the statement that "Tuna sandwiches orbiting my head do not exist". Are they expressing the kind of "faith" that you love to hear atheists expressing?

You=pwnt
Oh. I'm dealing with someone who "owns" people on the internet. I see.
 
2005-07-07 12:11:53 AM  
That's assume meaning "take up," as in, "assume the position," not assume meaning "take for granted" as in "assume a spherical cow." But Ayn Rand made a lot of interesting word choices. When asked why she used the word "selfish" to describe her ethics rather than choosing a less loaded term, her reply was basically, "Well, first, because it's accurate. But also, I wanted to piss people off."
 
2005-07-07 12:12:55 AM  
St. Apatheism:

Actualy I'm a milner of gluteal hattery, I sell them by the dozen with a discount and custom to order if one is so interested.

I don't buy hats from someone who spells "milliner" incorrectly. No, the mercury excuse will not wash. Look up "actually" while you're at it.
 
2005-07-07 12:14:56 AM  
Jesus, why does everybody treat "atheist" like it's such a dirty word and spend so much time arguing over semantics? Just say you don't believe in God and get along with it.

I have "faith" that Pluto exists, based on the fact that we can see it. I will probably never personally visit Pluto, and if I ever do, I'd then have to have "faith" that my senses are reliable.

If some people want to equate that with having faith in an invisible entity whose presence we can never detect and never influence, just go ahead and let them.

"It's not that I don't believe in God, I just don't believe in believing in God."

Christ.
 
2005-07-07 12:17:54 AM  
Franky17: Oh. I'm dealing with someone who "owns" people on the internet. I see.

Hey i'm dealing with someone who hears "hey idiot" and turned around to see who was calling out for him. So we're both working in less than perfect conditions. And I got a grammar/spelling bashing semi-sucessful troll attempt.


TheSeer,

Yea I can red englush, that's the reason I noticed it as being an interesting time to use the word. Many others could have been transplanted without having a double meaning involved. I just happen to presume writers know what they are doing when they are doing things like, say, writing.

=)
 
2005-07-07 12:17:58 AM  
Everyone here knows that we have only identified about 5% of the known universe, right? I mean, we have some theories on dark matter and energy, but can only confirm 5% of the required mass to explain the universe, and the big bang. What this means is that either 1) there is more out there than we can even hope to understand in the next several lifetimes, or 2) our math is wrong.

So, with all that universe missing (even after theories on dark energy and dark matter adding another 30-60%) where did it go?

Get an answer to that (one that does not start with "See, God was hiding it behind that nebula, all along") and I might, just might consider the no God theory.

Oh, yeah. This is clearly a satire article. Everyone knows that gravity is real. It buoyancy that is not explained. I mean, why don't small rocks float?
 
2005-07-07 12:18:28 AM  
lixivium: "It's not that I don't believe in God, I just don't believe in believing in God."

Not believing in believing in God is a religion!!!!!

/snicker
 
2005-07-07 12:20:57 AM  
well color me trolled.
 
2005-07-07 12:21:07 AM  
Believing in the absence of tomatoes is faith!!!

/I could do this all night
 
OPM
2005-07-07 12:21:59 AM  
That's odd. I was under the impression that Bevets posted about two or three times per thread most of the time. Ah well.
 
2005-07-07 12:22:21 AM  
The difference between evolution mythology and the theory of gravity is that the theory of gravity was not devised soley to exclude God.

Quick1

Gravity doesn't exclude God? The Theory of Gravity means that God isn't the one keeping you from floating away, but instead, it's the force between two bodies of mass.

What is the source of the 'the force'?

yotta

Current Catholic teaching is that faith and science can coexist.

Actually I have NEVER heard ANY Christian claim otherwise.
 
2005-07-07 12:24:04 AM  
St Apatheism your views interest me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
 
2005-07-07 12:26:11 AM  
Bevets: Actually I have NEVER heard ANY Christian claim otherwise.

Interesting wording and emphasis, beevs.
 
2005-07-07 12:26:17 AM  
First off, Apatheism, I didn't mean to insult your literacy, sorry. But I don't think Rand was going for a double meaning - first of all, because her literary style is very straightforward and literal, and second, because her philosophy wasn't really consistent with randomly taking things for granted. "Assume responsibility" is a pretty common phrase, and the only alternative I can think of is "take responsibility." The cadence and force isn't as good using the latter, and Rand certainly did pay attention to cadence, especially since the quote in question is taken from a character's speech.
 
OPM
2005-07-07 12:26:42 AM  
Man, I'm even better than those "Summon Bevets" cards.

2005-07-07 12:22:21 AM Bevets


The difference between evolution mythology and the theory of gravity is that the theory of gravity was not devised soley to exclude God.

Quick1

Gravity doesn't exclude God? The Theory of Gravity means that God isn't the one keeping you from floating away, but instead, it's the force between two bodies of mass.

What is the source of the 'the force'?


Well, that's the whole point. "Gravity" is just a ploy by the secular scientists to draw attention away from the fact that it's God holding the universe together. Pay attention next time.
 
2005-07-07 12:27:50 AM  
Bevets! apparently you have selective hearing
 
2005-07-07 12:28:59 AM  
Bevets
What is the source of the 'the force'?

Can you rephrase that in the form of a scientific question?
 
2005-07-07 12:29:19 AM  
RAND was an expert on the INTJ (Jung typology) character, the Architect. hemmmm...
 
2005-07-07 12:35:35 AM  
TheSeer:

The cadence and force isn't as good using the latter, and Rand certainly did pay attention to cadence, especially since the quote in question is taken from a character's speech.

Then she's a horiable writer who cares more about asthetics which are only supposed to accent a work, not be the point of it. Duh? And you didn't insult me, I tend to devolve into random cussing and red faced yelling when i'm insulted. Tip for the internet: don't read emotion into forum posts.
 
2005-07-07 12:35:39 AM  
Apatheism: the religion for people sick of religion.

every belief is like a religion. who wouldn't be sick of religion? it's been manhandled for centuries. apathy seems like a cop out. time for a new idea... OPEN YOUR EYES
 
2005-07-07 12:37:40 AM  
I_C_Weener: Actually, dark matter fills about 30%, and then dark energy is basically defined as "whatever the hell it is filling the other 65%" (5% being visible matter). But yeah, we don't know what dark matter is, and we don't even have a clue what dark energy is. This doesn't, however, mean that we never will know. If science knew everything, scientists would be out of work, and we'd all have to learn engineering and get real jobs. If you're waiting for science to solve the universe to believe in it, you're in for a long wait.
 
2005-07-07 12:39:18 AM  
collectivemind: OPEN YOUR EYES

...and see, i'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy.
 
2005-07-07 12:41:26 AM  
St. Apatheism: and see, i'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy.

Plagiarist.
 
2005-07-07 12:41:42 AM  
I_C_Weener:

Get an answer to that (one that does not start with "See, God was hiding it behind that nebula, all along") and I might, just might consider the no God theory.

Late to the party, but why would it be a no God theory? Is that the same thing as a God theory? You really can't prove it either way, because of the nature of faith. You have a theory that there is a God. You can't prove it in a scientific case.

Faith and science are different things, your either on one side or the other. People riding the fence between the two are just making it up as they go (personal options, not based on science or scripture entirely).

The answer to your question is we can't see the entire universe, aka. not enough data. Considering that most of the universal theories have been developed in the last 150 years we might have a better answer for you in the next 50 years. Please be patient. Also the math is wicked hard.

TheSeer: we'd all have to learn engineering and get real jobs

One of my engineering friends once told me that you could train a monkey to do engineering, he just plugs numbers into equations.
 
2005-07-07 12:44:26 AM  
Actually, quite a lot of art is solely asthetic - I've never heard anyone ascribe deep meaning to Monet's "Water Lilies." But yeah, Atlas has both a strong story and a strong philosophical theme, and I never meant to imply that Rand ever lost sight of either for a moment. But when it comes to the frills she used to accent her work, she paid a lot more attention to cadence, voice, and tone than she did to double meanings and such. That's all.

Oh, by the way: I'm unusually reasonable on the point, but in general saying "Ayn Rand was a horrible writer" to Objectivists is a bit like saying "Jesus Christ was a dumbass" to Christians. I'm not offended, just FYI.
 
2005-07-07 12:47:39 AM  
TheSeer: I've never heard anyone ascribe deep meaning to Monet's "Water Lilies."

You have yet to hear a drunken Art Major pontificate, kudos.
 
2005-07-07 12:48:20 AM  
Nobody understands gravity/dark matter/dark enegery..... at least not yet. If anybody understands it please explain it to the rest of the world.

/Great satire.
 
2005-07-07 12:48:20 AM  
First thing I thought of...

[image from home.woh.rr.com too old to be available]

"That's because Christians don't believe in gravity."
 
2005-07-07 12:48:30 AM  
not a rand fan, because objectivism makes an ass out of life

...and see, i'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy.

confused?
 
2005-07-07 12:50:46 AM  
yotta

Current Catholic teaching is that faith and science can coexist.

Bevets

Actually I have NEVER heard ANY Christian claim otherwise.


Timbomb

Faith and science are different things, your either on one side or the other. People riding the fence between the two are just making it up as they go (personal options, not based on science or scripture entirely).

If by 'faith' you mean 'scripture' and by 'science' you mean 'evolutionism', then I agree
 
2005-07-07 12:52:28 AM  
[image from photodump.com too old to be available]
 
2005-07-07 12:53:38 AM  
TheSeer:

Oh, by the way: I'm unusually reasonable on the point, but in general saying "Ayn Rand was a horrible writer" to Objectivists is a bit like saying "Jesus Christ was a dumbass" to Christians. I'm not offended, just FYI.

Well, when the ass hat fits...

=)

Besides this is a religion flamewar and hyperbole is the word of the game didn't cha know?
 
2005-07-07 12:56:07 AM  
collectivemind

Think Queen.
I know, I'm giving it away, but still.
 
2005-07-07 12:56:36 AM  
I_C_Weiner - The thing about dark matter/energy is that very little description is attached to it. This is science at work. Since we don't know poop about it, we say as little as possible.

Bevets - The assertion that evolution was created soley to cut god out of the picture is laughable. The only reason have a problem with it is that they are very heavily invested in a notion of god, ornamented with lots of nice stories, that don't jive very nicely with evolution.

Everyone - Regarding atheism being a "religious" belief. Read William James' "The Will To Believe". I actually apply that to my life all the time. Most of the time, I hover around in an "Agnostic" kind of state. But sometimes, I end up with a genuine and momentous decision to make. When it comes down to it, my passionate volition that there is no God suffices to make me an atheist as long as necesasry. To stay honest, this happens so regularly that I could be called an athiest.
 
2005-07-07 12:57:02 AM  
Also, keep in mind it was an addendum to "Open your eyes", if that helps.
 
OPM
2005-07-07 12:58:47 AM  
...and see, i'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy.

confused?


Well, duh. He's easy come, easy go. Little high, little low.

/shouldn't be /obscure
 
2005-07-07 12:59:48 AM  
Bevets = unintentional troll

Who dat prancin' 'cross mah briyidge

Gift Bevets Gift

Who dat practicin' abortion until the 140th trimestah

Die Bevets Die

/gift = "present" not "poison", really!! I swear!
//what? It means the Bevets the?
 
2005-07-07 12:59:51 AM  
Think Queen.
I know, I'm giving it away, but still.


no way, you're kidding. i must be from outer space.

i said "confused" because instead of answering the question, he answered with song lyrics. this probably implies that he was trying to think of something creative to say but confused himself and just decided to sing. HENCE, "confused?" (question mark implies it is a query not a statement)
 
2005-07-07 12:59:56 AM  
I'm a big fan of science, and I don't think physics books should have warning labels or any mention of creation theory, but I do think textbook writers need to qualify a few things. Science, like religion, tries to explain everything. Some of these explanations are based on sound observations; others are little better than wild speculation.

People might think less of our current theories if they knew that gravity (as it's currently understood) only works on our observations of the rotation of galaxies if we assume most of the mass in the universe is invisible and with the exception of its gravitional effect, undetectable. Oh, and this dark matter is conveniently located in rings around galaxies. Further, expansion of the universe as observed requires a similar arrangement with energy. The big bang requires the laws of physics to change over a short time at the birth of the universe, then we expect them to stay constant for billions of years. Quantum mechanics has proven that either reality is profoundly weird or our theories are somehow wrong. No comment on string theory.

The approach I'd prefer is to teach why we know certain things in science. I'd almost go so far as to say it's worth not presenting the whole picture. People who learn why we believe things are probably more likely to make a big discovery than those who learn what the beliefs are and not to question them. This applies to religion too. I went to a Catholic grade school and a Catholic high school. The religion classes should have been about morality and cultural and religious anthropology, but instead they often focused too much on Catholic dogma.
 
2005-07-07 01:00:04 AM  
OPM

No kidding huh? I wouldn't think so....

/Any way the wind blows.....
 
2005-07-07 01:00:05 AM  
I've been trying not to flame, though. That's why I keep apologizing for stuff, and using moderate language, and all that. I'm of the opinion that, despite anecdotal evidence, it is possible to have an intelligent conversation on the internet. (Not likely, mind you, just possible.)
 
2005-07-07 01:01:52 AM  
collectivemind

Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity.

OK, well, at least you.

And now I've gone and made an asshat of myself singing, and I can't sing.
 
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