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(CBC)   Toyota building new plant in Canada despite massive subsidy offers from American states. Reason: southern Americans too dumb and illiterate to train; need directions in pictorial form   (cbc.ca) divider line 742
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22006 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2005 at 5:51 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-07-03 09:16:24 AM  
Ouch
 
2005-07-03 09:17:29 AM  
Bam! This article rips into a lot of things like a shotgun blast. Southerners are, in general, uneducated. National health care makes your country significantly more attractive to foreign investors.

This article, right here, is a sign of why things need to change in the United States.
 
2005-07-03 09:20:03 AM  
We really are becoming a third world country with nuclear weapons.
 
2005-07-03 09:21:03 AM  
eddyatwork: We really are becoming a third world country with nuclear weapons.

nucular
 
2005-07-03 09:24:38 AM  
Holy shiat, I really thought the headline was a joke.

Several U.S. states were reportedly prepared to offer more than double that amount of subsidy. But Fedchun said much of that extra money would have been eaten away by higher training costs than are necessary for the Woodstock project.
He said Nissan and Honda have encountered difficulties getting new plants up to full production in recent years in Mississippi and Alabama due to an untrained - and often illiterate - workforce. In Alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment.
"The educational level and the skill level of the people down there is so much lower than it is in Ontario," Fedchun said.
In addition to lower training costs, Canadian workers are also $4 to $5 cheaper to employ partly thanks to the taxpayer-funded health-care system in Canada, said federal Industry Minister David Emmerson.


Wow.
That's funny stuff right there.
Well, funny if you live in Canada, anyway.
 
2005-07-03 09:33:12 AM  
sens: Holy shiat, I really thought the headline was a joke.

You and me both man...

Well, funny if you live in Canada, anyway.

What does Larry the Cable Guy say? "That's funny. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there."
 
2005-07-03 09:34:49 AM  
From the CIA World Factbook:


LITERACY: definition: age 15 and over can read and write

Canada:
total population: 97% (1986 est.)

United States:
total population: 97% (1999 est.)


So what gives?
Are these stats lying, is this article lying, or are the southern states just really dragging down the average and keeping the U.S. from a perfect score?
 
2005-07-03 09:36:17 AM  
Calvin Hobbes:

sens: Holy shiat, I really thought the headline was a joke.

You and me both man...


Guilty.

So, we bully other countries and we're a bunch of idiots. That guy is always farked at the end of the movie.
 
2005-07-03 09:38:59 AM  
Well, if this is accurate:

 
2005-07-03 09:39:12 AM  
sens

i think it might just be that there is a much lower level of literacy.

Like dey cans wryt, but no so gud.
 
2005-07-03 09:39:15 AM  
My uncle is a retired beer and wine distributor in South Carolina. He's sunk a lot of his personal wealth
into creating vocational schools on the premise that
not everyone needs a college education, just a technical one.
It wouldn't surprise you to hear first Uncle Boyce has to
fill in all the gaps left by a public education.
 
2005-07-03 09:42:42 AM  
Judging from that map, Toyota may just be feeling burned by Toyota Kentucky.

Traditionally the North American worker is viewed by the Japanese as lazy, slothful, and only in it for himself... but the North American Farmer is thought of as a hard working, salt-of-the-earth sort. That was their original reason for building their transplant facilities in rural areas.

/used to have to visit Toyota Cambridge and Honda Alliston a lot...
 
2005-07-03 09:44:34 AM  
sens, it's a symptom of definition of "literate". There's the same problem right now in middle eastern countries where literate is defined as being able to tell when something is poisonous or not by the big label with the skull on it.


That being said, I never thought that this would be true. I7ve met brilliant people in the American South and dumb as rocks people in Ontario (where I gerw up). This might just be political though the Nissan and Mazda data may prove me wrong.

/I'm usually wrong.
//13 years Ed. in Canada before a few years ago. Maybe that's why?
 
2005-07-03 09:45:02 AM  
This is also a very bad omen for any other new plants that any foreign companies want to build in the West - whether they're building cars or wham-zoozlers.

Judging from this article, they're all going to be sucked into Ontario like moths to a flame.
One auto plant can take an economically depressed town and singlehandedly turn it around. This new one in Woodstock will cost $800 million to build, and provide about 1300 jobs when it's done.

Most of us have probably seen what the closing of a plant can do in Michael Moore's Roger and Me - think about that in reverse.

Seems to me like that's going to be a pretty vicious circle - the southern states are only going to get worse, while Ontario starts growing by leaps and bounds.
Even with drastic measures in the U.S., this slippery slope would take at least a generation to fix.

If I was in the southern U.S. and literate enough to read this article, I think I'd be looking for a nice Ontarian to marry me.
And sorry, I'm taken. :)
 
2005-07-03 09:47:09 AM  
By the state of my spelling, which I thought was fine when I hit add comment, I'm falling into the Mr.Programmer trap of posting while drunk.

/I'll just lurk for the rest of the night.
 
2005-07-03 09:48:35 AM  
bakarocket:
I've met brilliant people in the American South and dumb as rocks people in Ontario (where I grew up).

I absolutely agree.
Oh, and I corrected your two typos :P
 
2005-07-03 09:49:31 AM  
sens:

If I was in the southern U.S. and literate enough to read this article, I think I'd be looking for a nice Ontarian to marry me.
And sorry, I'm taken. :)


Heheh... and the odds are good I'll be moving to either Chicago or Houston in the next couple months...



I wants to build that Camry, what dem movie-stars done drive!
 
2005-07-03 09:49:34 AM  
What was wrong with gerw? That was spelled rite.
 
2005-07-03 09:49:49 AM  
Remember, Toyota is talking about the left side of the bell curve. Anyway, it's cultural. We don't trust those pinheaded know-it-alls.
 
2005-07-03 09:54:10 AM  
EverCompromised: Remember, Toyota is talking about the left side of the bell curve.

Are they? Sounds like they are saying that the average worker is easier to train to me... that would make it the meaty part of the curve... not the extreme ends...

We don't trust those pinheaded know-it-alls.

With all their hi-fallootin' book-learnin'...
 
2005-07-03 09:54:41 AM  
I'd like to see that education percentage for Ontario. I have no idea what it would be.
 
2005-07-03 09:54:48 AM  
Just for shiats'n'giggles, let's compare Calvin Hobbes' literacy map to this one of the 2004 election results:



Hmmmm.... eeeeentersting.
 
2005-07-03 09:58:16 AM  
I dunno, sens, Illinois and Ohio and at the top of the education rate thing and they're officially red states.
 
2005-07-03 09:58:53 AM  
And what's the excuse for Nevada and Utah?
 
2005-07-03 10:00:21 AM  
In addition, I'm seriously in farking shock about that education map of the States. I just don't understand how that's possible.
 
2005-07-03 10:00:50 AM  
bakarocket:
I dunno, sens, Illinois and Ohio and at the top of the education rate thing and they're officially red states.

Right. Bush won in Ohio.
*pats bakarocket on the head*
 
2005-07-03 10:03:27 AM  
bakarocket: In addition, I'm seriously in farking shock about that education map of the States.

Mexican immigrants would account for the lower levels along the southern border, I would think. The desert areas are sparsely populated, so will look artifically high.

What the heck happened in Kentucky is anyone's guess...
 
2005-07-03 10:04:29 AM  
Well, admittedly I was 15000km away when the election happened so I didn't get to hear all the lucid and completely balanced commentary on the Ohio election results here, but I believe that Bush won Ohio fair and relatively square. At least no less fair and square than any other president in the history of the United States has won any other state.

/read that however you like.
//I think I left a few more spelling mistakes there. Just skip over 'em, they might make what I said actually interesting.
 
2005-07-03 10:04:35 AM  


"Who cares? 'Sides, ain't we at war with Japan?"
 
2005-07-03 10:06:16 AM  
Calvin Hobbes: I'd guessed that about the south of Texas and California, but even then the vast majority of "run across the border in the hopes of avoiding the bullets" Mexican immigrants are still educated. Just not in the States.
 
2005-07-03 10:11:09 AM  
bakarocket:

I'd guessed that about the south of Texas and California, but even then the vast majority of "run across the border in the hopes of avoiding the bullets" Mexican immigrants are still educated. Just not in the States.

Ah, I was thinking of the older migrant farm worker types.

At work we have a few guys who have grade 6 or so educations... but they tend to be life-long factory workers in their 60s now.

I don't know anyone here that is under say 40 and doesn't have a high school education. All of my friends have at least community college post-secondary educations, as well. I've noticed that it's not so with my American friends... they all have high-school, but there seems to be less of focus on post-secondary...

Pure observation though... I don't have numbers to back that up.
 
2005-07-03 10:25:46 AM  
FINE!!!! we're farking stupid, alright?! quit rubbing it in already and would you like fries with that.....sir?
 
2005-07-03 10:27:45 AM  
Weakner: FINE!!!! we're farking stupid, alright?!

But we do have all the cool stuff.
 
2005-07-03 10:36:20 AM  
I really thought the headline was a joke, then I RTFA. If the problem was really just that southerners are so stupid you can't train them, why not see about a state in the north? Was it just because no northern state lobbied? Frankly I smell something here and it ain't apple pie.
 
2005-07-03 10:37:06 AM  
Canada can kiss our collective Southern ass. What a farking stupid reason to use. I bet that some Canadian whore was paid to suck someone's pole to get the factory.
 
2005-07-03 10:38:04 AM  
Interesting that Toyota made that decision, while Hyundai, one of the fastest-growing automobile manufacturers, skipped Canada and assembled their newest plant in Hope Hull, Alabama, right outside Montgomery.

Hyundai's reasoning involved unionization efforts in Canada and a better tax situation in Alabama.
 
2005-07-03 10:41:01 AM  
Now that this has been green-lit, and before this turns into a particularly nasty Canadian vs. American flame war, I'd like to remind my fellow Ontarians that we have more than our share of drooling, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing idiots, and probably shouldn't be so smug when talking to our good southern neighbours.

Exhibit A:



Remember, the majority of the people in this province cheer for the Toronto Maple Leafs.
'Nuff said.
 
2005-07-03 10:41:28 AM  
darkhorse23:

Canada can kiss our collective Southern ass. What a farking stupid reason to use. I bet that some Canadian whore was paid to suck someone's pole to get the factory.

Er... really, it's Japan you should be mad at... but... Yup! That's it for sure! Definitely pole-sucking... Or maybe some of those reasons cited in the article (cheaper health care, more highly educated workforce) might be true.

Of course, feel free to dismiss it out of hand without wondering if there is a point in there if you prefer, Brandine.
 
2005-07-03 10:42:09 AM  
bakarocket:

I dunno, sens, Illinois and Ohio and at the top of the education rate thing and they're officially red states.

Put down the pipe. Illinois is a solid blue state, and Ohio is by no means solidly red.
 
2005-07-03 10:42:49 AM  
darkhorse:

No thanks, the lack of education of y'all probably means you don't know that you're supposed to shower more than once a month.

/joking in case you didn't realise.
//agrees that it's suspicious.
///and fark you. "Canada can kiss our etc.etc."? Why the fark is it our fault?
 
2005-07-03 10:43:09 AM  
But somehow...



the South wheel raaas ageeen!
 
2005-07-03 10:43:47 AM  
sens:

I'd like to remind my fellow Ontarians that we have more than our share of drooling, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing idiots, and probably shouldn't be so smug when talking to our good southern neighbours.

True enough... but don't rag on the Leafs. Being a Leafs fan keeps you humble. It's like loving a woman who breaks your heart all the time.

Reminds you that no matter how well things are going, sometimes you can still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

... but I digress.
 
2005-07-03 10:46:00 AM  
2wheeljunkie: Your choice of transportation is much more admirable than my ability to recognize American states. I meant the state to the left of Ohio that is red. Apparently Indiana?

And speaking of that, Illinois is pretty uneducated in the south and it went blue. That also goes agin' the "red states are stupid" idea, too.
 
2005-07-03 10:48:47 AM  
Boojum2k:

Interesting that Toyota made that decision, while Hyundai, one of the fastest-growing automobile manufacturers, skipped Canada and assembled their newest plant in Hope Hull, Alabama, right outside Montgomery.

It's really a saw-off isn't it? There are advantages to going with either. The article stated that some of the Southern States offered twice the incentives than Ontario did. To some, those incentives are going to win out.

In the auto industry it's also advantagous to have a plant in both countries.

All of the left body panels of Hondas made in North America are made in Canada. All the right side are made in the US. Then they ship half of what they've made for assembly in the other country.

It's not that the dies and tooling would be prohibitively expensive to have in both places... the cost of shipping outweighs the expense of duplicate tooling.

It has something to do with getting around NAFTA.
 
2005-07-03 10:49:20 AM  
darkhorse23:
Canada can kiss our collective Southern ass. What a farking stupid reason to use. I bet that some Canadian whore was paid to suck someone's pole to get the factory.

Yeah, seriously, you're not doing much to elevate the level of discussion in here, nor are you making much of a case for the intellectual prowess of the American South.
 
2005-07-03 10:54:18 AM  
bakarocket: 13 years Ed. in Canada before a few years ago. Maybe that's why?

That was only in Ontario. The rest of Canada went for 12 years.
 
2005-07-03 10:56:07 AM  
mtbhucker:

Yeah, but Ontario is the only one that count, right?

/TOTALLY joking. Not one of those Ontarians.
 
2005-07-03 10:56:11 AM  
I'm doing some work out in Wichata Kansas right now. I can see where Toyota is coming from...
 
2005-07-03 10:57:04 AM  
Whenever there's a thread about the latest Christian Fundementalist attempt to re-inject Biblical "truths" into their local educational systems, I pop in and make this point: it's necessary to have a poorly educated underclass, as somebody has to dig the ditches, sweep the floors, cook our fries and whatnot. Furthermore, I believe that it's a process of self-selection, that people will place themselves in that underclass because to them an education is less important than their faith. We're now seeing that philosophy in action. The American South and Midwest have unwittingly but quite deliberately placed themselves in the position of providing North America with its janitors and sewer cleaners. It's okay, these are necessary functions.
 
2005-07-03 10:57:40 AM  
mtbhucker: That was only in Ontario. The rest of Canada went for 12 years.

A bit of a shame. Back under the 13 year program universities could get on with the task of teaching advanced topics. When I went first year was hard on students from the US or other provinces because we had all had an extra year of education. They did some review, but taught it at a break-neck speed because it was really supposed to be review...
 
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