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(MSNBC) Video Watch Tom Cruise and Matt Lauer go for each other's throats on the 'Today Show' as Matt grills the Scientology-enthralled celeb about his controversial view of psychiatry   (msnbc.msn.com ) divider line 439
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34431 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2005 at 11:53 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-06-25 04:33:49 AM  
hard to back off of glibe declaratives. I feel your pain. Maybe you won't do it in the future.
 
2005-06-25 04:34:42 AM  
ingvar:

i think what tom said was: research the history of psychiatry and you will find evil deeds, and evil men whose purpose for drugging entire generations may not be as 'holy' and as 'innocent' and 'righteous' as you think. its true: the forefathers of the modern pscyho-pharmaceutical movement are a bunch of farking weird, farking secretive, totally suspicious individuals whose admitted social agenda's may not be so palatable to people who do bother to think for themselves about an issue, and not just blindly follow along, as if the mob-view is the sole righteous 'sub-conscious' we all ought to be party to.

i respect cruise for standing up to the entrenched establishment in that regard, because the fact is: there are a fark-load of zombies out there who wouldn't be that way if it weren't for the society around them prompting them to get addicted to incredibly addictive, mind-altering substances .. say what you want about $40,000 space-alien stories, the psycho-pharmaceutical organizations (associated with techno-millitarist mega-corps) are raking in $Billions from poor addicted suckers, daily.

and here's something you ought to consider pretty much twice, no three times, before you react: far too many of the enemies America has defeated in the past have had the goal of a chemically controlled society at the root of their ideology for me to overlook the fact that in this day and age, America is a chemically controlled society.

how about you think about that before you go kow-tow'ing with the mainstream religious mob-mind point of view that 'only people with chemistry sets know anything about life'.. psycho-pharmaceuticals have a social agenda, hidden from view by the public, which is not necessarily the one their Paxil (tm) ads reveal to you: profit from happiness, control peoples minds.


Mein Gott! Take every reference to drugs and psychology and switch them with references to Scientology and the statement is true!
 
2005-06-25 04:34:46 AM  
pardon the spelling, I just can't stomach people who try to alter their position after it becomes uncomfortable.
 
2005-06-25 04:36:28 AM  
and what position would that be?
 
2005-06-25 04:40:04 AM  
Lime. Harvey Lime

1.) Disturbed kid is prescribed anti-depressants.

2.) Disturbed kid is still disturbed.

3.) Disturbed kid kills people.

4.) Genius on fark concludes that medication, not mental disturbance, caused (3).
 
2005-06-25 04:40:51 AM  
bounty:

And to think that everyone's problem is as easy as yours and IS treatable without medical intervention brings me right back to saying your ignorant.


And your inability to use the word you're brings me right back to saying you're ignorant.
 
2005-06-25 04:40:59 AM  
Watching Tom Cruise in interviews actually pains me. I don't think I've heard or seen anybody on television as inarticulate and as redundant as Tom.
 
2005-06-25 04:41:58 AM  
I feel I am above nothing in life except for the movie Days of Thunder.

Born on the Fourth of July was good, though.
Also, the last Star Wars movie could have used old Tommy-boy in there somewhere.

As well the smurfs could have benefited with some 'Cruising up'. He'd have been 'Toothy Smurf'.
 
2005-06-25 04:43:58 AM  
[image from img184.echo.cx too old to be available]

//recycled
 
2005-06-25 04:44:23 AM  
Jizz Master Zero:Mein Gott! Take every reference to drugs and psychology and switch them with references to Scientology and the statement is true!



so then maybe the point is: it should be illegal to draw any profit from "mental health industry" whatsoever? just like its illegal to draw profit from prositution, so should it be illegal to draw profit from mental health work.

actually, i think that'd be a fine solution to the problem..
 
2005-06-25 04:44:53 AM  
/2005-06-25 02:31:42 AM ottosmom



"Jason Lee is a Scientologist? Damn, I had no idea."

Exactly what I thought when I read that list of celebs. :(
WTF is that ... I think I just lost all love I had for that guy. :P

//At least they haven't gotten to Kevin Smith, too!
///Stop the Xenu's while there is still time.
 
2005-06-25 04:45:49 AM  
ivgar: I would like to understand your suspicions but I am not fearful of them. As I mentioned previouslly I had bipolar mania. One day I woke up as such. It is not a normal state of mind. Constant hallucinations, a feeling of being grandiose, completely indentifable with Tom Cruises condition. I make this diagnosis out of my own vain thoughts. It is clear to me that he would not answer the questions directly, he is egotistical and vain. Psychology has far surpassed people such as Jung and Freud and has lead into such things as the Neurosciences, where people are diagnosed based off of brain waves. The economics of the pharmaceutical industry is irrelevent, as you should understand that profit and manipulation are a huge part of our industry. This occurs everywhere. Of course alot of people are going to be prescribed pills for which they do not need, that does not mean anything, that is part of our industry. I am not condoning it, but americans are born into the idea of individualism and free will. It is there free will to seek out these drugs and to be manipulated by these pharma advertisements. There are those that it does work on. All that what you are saying is that capitalism can at times be an unethical system that cares only for proft. That is no big surprise. You may want to take a look into this disorder though, called PPD:

An unmistakable sign of paranoia is continual mistrust. People with paranoid personality disorder are constantly on their guard because they see the world as a threatening place. They tend to confirm their expectations by latching on to any speck of evidence that supports their suspicions and ignore or misinterpret any evidence to the contrary. They are ever watchful and may look around for signs of a threat.

Anyone in a new situation -- beginning a job or starting a relationship, for example -- is cautious and somewhat guarded until he or she learns that the fears are groundless. People suffering from paranoia cannot abandon their fears. They continue to expect trickery and to doubt the loyalty of others. In a personal relationship or marriage, this suspiciousness may take the form of pathological, unrealistic jealousy.

Hypersensitive
Because persons with paranoid personality disorder are hyperalert, they notice any slight and may take offense where none is intended. As a result, they tend to be defensive and antagonistic. When they are at fault, they cannot accept blame, not even mild criticism. Yet they are highly critical of others. Other people may say that these individuals make "mountains out of molehills."

Cold and Aloof
In addition to being argumentative and uncompromising, the people with paranoid personality disorder are often emotionally cut off from other people. They appear cold and, in fact, often avoid becoming intimate with others. They pride themselves on their rationality and objectivity. People with a paranoid outlook on life rarely come to the attention of clinicians -- it is not in their nature to seek help. Many presumably function competently in society. They may seek out social niches in which a moralistic and punitive style is acceptable, or at least tolerated to a certain degree.
 
2005-06-25 04:46:47 AM  
Animatronik

Don't forget about the genius on Fark who figured out that depression = disturbed.
 
2005-06-25 04:50:24 AM  
for the love of god neel, don't let anyone know you have a functional knowledge of what you're speaking on. it's key to fark that you remain detached and for the most part, ignorant of what you're talking about.

You're breaking all the rules!
 
2005-06-25 04:51:30 AM  
Artmerlyn:

Watching Tom Cruise in interviews actually pains me. I don't think I've heard or seen anybody on television as inarticulate and as redundant as Tom.


You don't watch the annual State Of The Union Adresses ?
 
2005-06-25 04:51:35 AM  
OK, this is just retarded. I've lost any shred of respect I ever had for Tom Cruise. While I do agree that doctors should stop handing out anti-depressants like they're candies, the guy has no right, as an actor promoting his new film, to comment on such an issue.

But then again, the interviewer brought it up in the first place...geez, why can't actors just mind their own business and journalists report important stories???
 
2005-06-25 04:53:30 AM  
Do you think they should stop handing out anti-depressants because people aren't properly battling their body aliens? Cause that's his basis
 
2005-06-25 04:56:41 AM  
MisterMan

My point is that the fact that a kid is prescribed prozac indicates that someone thought he had mental issues. To assume that the drug, not the issues, had to have caused the anti-social behavior is not logical.
And, rightly or wrongly, prozac is prescribed for things other than depression, or behaviors that appear to be depression that are actually more complex, e.g. bipolar disorder. It could be the kid was misdiagnosed, or in dire need of other treatments. Go ahead, blame the drug if it makes you feel better.



Animatronik

Don't forget about the genius on Fark who figured out that depression = disturbed.
 
2005-06-25 05:02:15 AM  
neelb420 you are stuck in a fascist loop. continually defining behaviour you don't find acceptable as an 'illness' simply serves to defeat that behaviour, so you don't have to take responsibility for your own condition, and couching it all in terms which appear to be scientifically derived only serves to promote the ideal that 'there are some who know about life, and others who don't and the one shall govern the other with their words'.

no thanks. sign me off that kooky new-world psychological disorder list, call me crazy if you wish .. i don't need no lazy doctor painting his little box pretty pictures just so he can keep living in that box.

the universe doesn't care if you think i'm crazy, only other members of your destructive cult ..
 
2005-06-25 05:02:51 AM  
I didn't blame the drug. All I did was comment on your comment. But I still think your point of view is narrow minded.

Every kid has problems. Why wouldn't it be logical to assume that when you give a kid pills that alters his brain chemistry some undesirable things could happen to said kid? I have taken anti-depressants before, and they made me feel quite psychotic. At times I couldn't even recognize objects around my house. My thoughts were going 90 miles an hour, and people I tried to have conversations with would always interject with "are you okay?"
 
2005-06-25 05:03:17 AM  
I've got the "Force Lightning" remix of Cruise's appearance on Oprah available @ my place (pops).
 
2005-06-25 05:04:43 AM  
Try that again: Cruise Force Lightnings Oprah: link (pops)
 
2005-06-25 05:09:11 AM  
I think it is absolutely true that there are people taking prescription drugs who shouldn't be, who need to pursue therapies that don't involve medication. That doesn't mean that ALL people taking such drugs shouldn't be. That's another lapse in logic.

/suspects that there are friends of elron posting here...
 
2005-06-25 05:10:03 AM  
I'm sad that there's been no pics of Katie in this thread :(
 
2005-06-25 05:10:42 AM  
Ingvar: Sigh...
Defining me as being fascist, is defining my behaviour based off your own perspective on the matter. You're a hypocrite, and you suffer from PPD. It is a disease.
 
2005-06-25 05:11:04 AM  
A lapse in logic? It's your imagination is what it is. I never said anything like that at all. Maybe you need some Lithium to control those hallucinations.
 
2005-06-25 05:15:05 AM  
MisterMan

Wasn't referring to your post. I never said that depression = disturbed, either.

Since you asked, Do you think some people need to take lithium?



A lapse in logic? It's your imagination is what it is. I never said anything like that at all. Maybe you need some Lithium to control those hallucinations.
 
2005-06-25 05:15:09 AM  
When I was on prozac for several years, it made me feel like I was on an even keel. No lows, no highs, just a constant state of ho-hum. I never got upset about anything, and never got too excited about anything.

The sexual side effect is no fun either.
 
2005-06-25 05:15:58 AM  
Animatronik:

Agreed. Your comments hit the nail on the head, but unfortunately people can't seem to see that.
 
2005-06-25 05:16:01 AM  
neelb420: Defining me as being fascist, is defining my behaviour based off your own perspective on the matter. You're a hypocrite, and you suffer from PPD. It is a disease.


oooh, feel the burn. see, its okay for you to do it but not for me? why, because you use bigger words?

fascism is a disease, dude, and the reason is: its contagious. psych!
 
2005-06-25 05:16:59 AM  
Turd: Yeah, the sexual side effects suck for you, but the girls like it :P.

..Went 7 hours the other night, couldnt walk right the whole day afterward.
 
2005-06-25 05:18:42 AM  
Animatronik
I don't know. I've never known anyone on Lithium.
 
2005-06-25 05:18:52 AM  
sal-paradise

Don't be retarded. When I was in high school, nearly half the kids were on anti-depressants because they suffered from things such as "life" where shiat happens and they don't realise that they just have to deal with it.

Now, here's my personal experience with doctors and anti-depressants. Last year, a small incident occurred and I developed an anxiety disorder. There was a point where I couldn't leave my house without hyper-ventilating and feeling sick. After a few tests, my doctor said I was probably depressed.

I said "I'm not depressed."

She said "You should probably take these. This will help you relax and improve your mood."

I said "If they're anti-depressants, I'm not taking them."

She said "No, no these aren't anti-depressants, these are very mild and won't turn you into a zombie, they contain St John's Wort, blah blah blah..."

And after arguing with her for a bit more, I reluctantly agreed, and got my prescription. When I took it home, I read through the pamphlet, found a couple of things that contradicted what she said. Firstly it said it should only be given to manic depressants, and that it shouldn't be taken while on St John's Wort. "WTF?" was my reaction. Then I went on the internet and googled the drug she gave me. Apparently it's unavailable in the US because of the extreme side effects i.e. they can cause severe depression. What's frightening about the situation is not only did she quickly resort to the drugs, she practically forced them on me when I didn't even need them. Imagine if I took them regularly, I would've ended up reliant on them.

Anyway, I've gotten over my problem by dealing with it directly. I kept going out and doing stuff such as exercise until it eventually went away. My point is, anti-depressants shouldn't be a solution to everything. If you're feeling blue, go out and exercise or get a hobby. The more sensible doctor I went to agreed that outdoor activity is good for your mental health.
 
2005-06-25 05:19:18 AM  
ingvar: The point was to meet mutual understanding. I label you as PPD because you fit that description. You hold antagonisms towards people in society who have spent there entire lives making these pills to help you. Deriving these psychological techniques to create a cure. And you doubt them, from what, experience?
 
2005-06-25 05:20:07 AM  
2005-06-25 05:16:59 AM neelb420


Turd: Yeah, the sexual side effects suck for you, but the girls like it :P.

..Went 7 hours the other night, couldnt walk right the whole day afterward.


Holy crap! What condition was SHE in the next day?
 
2005-06-25 05:20:31 AM  
The only thing I'm against is people who can't see past what they've been told. It shouldn't take more than a second thought on the subject to realize that mind altering drugs can cause psychotic episodes. Dismissing this idea out of hand is being just as nutty as Crazy Cruise
 
2005-06-25 05:21:47 AM  
Also, they shouldn't give anti-depressants to children or teens going through puberty. That's just farking wrong. It'll fark up their hormones.
 
2005-06-25 05:25:51 AM  
people need to stop seeing everything in absolutes.

some people abuse medication. some people are adversely affected by medication. some people benefit from medication and then get off of it. some people benefit from medication all their lives. some people die from illegal drugs. some people perform better on them. some people are better off messed up. some people can fix everything in their body with their mind. some people can't. everyone is different. he wants people to let him have his opinion, and then tells everyone they're wrong and don't know as much as he knows, and he's right about everyone, and there's no such thing as exceptions to his rule.

to think that it's impossible to have a chemical imbalance is just silly and naive. does he not understand the chemistry of the brain? if it's possible to create drugs of all different kinds that have different specific repeatable reactions in people, why can't those reactions possibly be positive?

i just can't get over how naive he is.

i had depression. i tried a number of anti-depressants until i settled on one that i could notice a difference with. they didn't fix me, but they cleared my head enough to let me stop dwelling on things and work on improving myself. once i felt i was better, i stopped and never needed to take them again. now i've come to realize i've had ADD all my life as well, so i take the exact drug he mentions, adderall. maybe it messes up everyone else like tom says, but it has worked wonders for me. its effects are subtle. you don't really notice a change when you start to take the adderall, but if you stop, it's like you're thrown into a fog, and it gets harder to remember things and to think clearly. it's like you don't realize how important your thumbs are until you injure one and can't hold anything or pick anything up. so the benefits manifest physically by how much more responsible i am when i'm on the adderall, as far as remembering to do important things and keeping track of all the little daily things that i just seem to forget to do when i'm off my meds. so while i may not be levitating objects and crushing cancer cells in my body using only my brain, the quality of my life has vastly improved with the help of medication.

i wonder if tom cruise has ever taken some aspirin for a headache.

naive.
 
2005-06-25 05:26:38 AM  
2005-06-25 05:18:42 AM MisterMan

I've known two very well. The stories Icoul tell. Lithium is an amazing drug, it saves lives. It's actually a metal ion of course, not an organic drug.




Animatronik
I don't know. I've never known anyone on Lithium.

 
2005-06-25 05:27:46 AM  
What this interview REALLY needed was, at the most intense moment, for Matt to squirt on Tom:
Tom: "No, you see. Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do."
Matt: "Well, Tom, what if I squirted on you?"
Tom: "What?"
Matt: "Yeah, like this!"
(Matt pulls out a water pistol and shoots two streams, hitting Maverick square between the eyes with a fluid of unknown origin...)
Tom: "Why would you do that....why would you do that...why would...you're a jerk...you're a....does not compute....windows shutting down...."
Matt: "Back to you Katie"
 
2005-06-25 05:30:17 AM  
neelb420:You hold antagonisms towards people in society who have spent there entire lives making these pills to help you.

umm .. no .. i hold antagonism for these people who have leeched off of other peoples misery, all their lives, and I am highly suspicious of them because there is Strong Empirical Evidence That It Does Not Work, Never Will Work, And Isn't Designed To Work, Ever, in fact .. there is strong Empirical Evidence that psycho-pharmaceuticals only work to make as quick a buck as possible off of human misery before they move on to the next generations wonder-drug, new name, new label, new side-effects, new FDA-rubber stamped social acceptance to use in fleecing the masses.

Call me paranoid if it serves your purpose, but its your purpose I'm attacking, exactly and precisely. Labelling a defense position against massive mental health control as 'paranoid delusional' is a weak counter-strategy to a strong argument supported by evidence. your PPD label is not science, it is warfare.

Deriving these psychological techniques to create a cure.

what farking cure?!!!!!!! WHERE IS THE CURE?!!!!

psycho-pharmaceutical addiction isn't a cure, its a band-aid, and a bad one, because you have to keep buying it, over and over and over again, and only doing what other so-called 'experts' say is right in order to maintain mental 'normalcy' is allowed, and you have absolutely Zero Control over it: it has control over you, strictly and exclusively. take this pill, become a slave.

Show me a solution to mental problems that I can apply or make for myself, that I don't have to keep buying from "The Man", that isn't backed up by so called Big Government Interest, and I'll believe you're onto something. But so far, all you're selling me is Snake Oil, man, and it ain't working! Too many zombies! FACT!
 
2005-06-25 05:31:41 AM  
Animatronik

Why do you keep trying to argue with me about this? I am not against the use of prescription drugs.
 
2005-06-25 05:33:46 AM  
It's not paranoia if the psychiatrists REALLY ARE out to get you.
 
2005-06-25 05:34:18 AM  
miss luigi: What's frightening about the situation is not only did she quickly resort to the drugs, she practically forced them on me when I didn't even need them.

one word for you: PROFIT!
 
2005-06-25 05:37:18 AM  
MisterMan

Not arguing, just sharing personal experience.
 
2005-06-25 05:39:00 AM  
Sure, Tom Cruise has super-duper operating thetan powers like the ability to pause time and fly through the sky, but can he eat his own head?

[image from xenutv.com too old to be available]

/Blainetology pwns
 
2005-06-25 05:41:52 AM  
Noooooo! My hottie psychotherapist only manipulated me so she could sleep with me! Oh, god!! How I have been deceived!

ingvar: I forgot to mention, that I got my meds by applying to social services. Yes, I saw a psychiatrist and a therapist for free, got my meds for free, and felt better again. I havent had to take the meds after the first 6 months and have felt fine since. I never paid a dime for anything. How, god awful, the whole thing was.
Actually to tell the truth, I am forever thankful for what the state of minnesota and the doctors did for me. Not to get too sentimental but they are, really, very good people.

Lastly..
ingvar, see a doctor.
 
2005-06-25 05:44:21 AM  
Even if antidepressants just mask the cause of the problem... what if the problem is in your FARKING GENES?

I am a little crazy. I was BORN CRAZY. The older I got, the CRAZIER I GOT. Not like the crazy cat-throwing lady on the Simpsons, but massively, unreasonably irritable and down all the time.

Even when life is GREAT I have problems with these moods. My poor brain is a little broken... But 10mg/day of paxil fixes it. FIXES it. It's pretty amazing. I still have moods. I can still be cranky, or sad. But now that only happens when it is appropriate.

Those of you who find a way to deal without the meds--huzzah. I am sincerely happy for you. But I don't think it is an option for all of us. Sometimes, crazy is a physiological problem and it needs chemical treatment.

I love my crazy pills. (So does my wife.) Are there drawbacks? Sure. But my side effects are vanishingly minor, and the bottle of pills is worth the $10 co-pay each month. There's my drawback, $120/year.

Let's hear it for Western medicine and the pharmaceutical-healthcare complex!

/ex biochemist
// pfizer stockholder
/// suppressive person
//// still going to see WOTW, pending reviews
 
2005-06-25 05:45:16 AM  
Actually.. those free shrinks get money for every scrip they write. Just so you know.
 
2005-06-25 05:46:22 AM  
Miss Luigi:

nearly half the kids were on anti-depressants because they suffered from things such as "life" where shiat happens and they don't realise that they just have to deal with it.

I kept going out and doing stuff such as exercise until it eventually went away.


therein lies the problem, though. not everyone is perfectly equipped to just 'deal with it.' in the same way that many girls are uncontrollably different when they're in the middle of PMS, many people cannot control their emotions. even the most reasonable and level headed people get stuck in depression. even athletic, social people can have depression. so while it may work for many people to improve the general quality of their body, and get out there more, for others doing that might have no benefit at all. the mind is extremely complicated both physically and behaviorally. it's naive to think that one answer works for everybody, whether that answer be medication, or any other method. we're all just struggling to make things the best for ourselves however we can.

my doctor understood that anti-depressants weren't the be-all end-all medicine. he suggested we try a few different kinds to see if anything worked, and he explained that some people seemed to benefit from medicine alone, some from therapy alone, but that neither one can fix everything. the medicine is designed to help you out enough that you can think clearly enough to work on analyzing yourself and ultimately improving yourself. he didn't want me to take it forever, but he realized it could be a helpful tool to ease the process. besides, the likelihood of the minor possible side effects (which he went over thoroughly with me before prescribing the meds) was far less than the likelihood that i would benefit from the drug, so i don't see why it's not worth at least trying.
 
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