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(MSNBC) Video Watch Tom Cruise and Matt Lauer go for each other's throats on the 'Today Show' as Matt grills the Scientology-enthralled celeb about his controversial view of psychiatry   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 439
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34420 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jun 2005 at 11:53 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-06-25 03:00:52 AM
Just to clarify for the people bustin' my chops...

1. Yes, I agree with Tom when he says that antidepressants only mask the problem.

2. I do NOT agree with his statement that there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance in the brain.

3. What is so "close minded" or "ignorant" about trying to find the root cause of the chemical imbalance and fixin' it instead of solely treating the symptoms with a drug?

Seems like blindly following the drug companies and doctors is the closed minded and ignorant thing to do, but what do I know?
 
2005-06-25 03:03:31 AM
Don't worry...

I'm not gonna do..

what you all think I'm gonna do...

which is, you know..

FLIP OUT!!!

 
2005-06-25 03:07:52 AM
It's your brain, people. If you feel bad all the time for no reason, just stop feeling bad, idiot. If something makes me feel bad I just do something that I like.

If cry all the time because you don't have any estrogen left, realize you are crying for no reason and stop. I don't have estrogen and you don't see me crying.

Get with the farking program you losers.
 
2005-06-25 03:08:55 AM
TurdBurglar

How's about this. You're in an accident. You lose a few muscle groups due to a trauma in a limb. Do you know how they treat that? They treat it with steroids. What does that do, it stimulates growth in those muscles that are left.

Now if you can't cope on an out patient basis with therapy on a certain brain chemistry that was created by say.. a clinically depressed mother, an alcoholic father, removed stimulus or emotional trauma during the formative years. How would you deal with that?

It had nothing to do with drug companies, it has everything to do with understanding neurochemistry and how susceptible it is to outside events.
 
2005-06-25 03:09:31 AM
apotheosis247: /personally I'll take Pascal's wager

Which basically says, "I'm too scared and weak minded to really look for the answers so I'll just go back to sleep and believe". Otherwise known as "The Pussy Wager". But once you move past that, the whole hypothesis immediately and totally fails. All of the gods and religions made by H. Sapiens have all sorts of different ways of making sure you're safe in the afterlife. Does one flatter Jesus, rip still beating hearts out of living chests to pacify Quetzalcoatl, strive to appease the dizzying array of Hindu gods, or maybe devote one's life to becoming one with Buddha? A generic, weak belief in some kind of god doesn't seem to cut it.
 
2005-06-25 03:10:29 AM
2005-06-25 02:57:53 AM bounty


Turd: My mother got a hysterectomy, her body doesn't produce hormones anymore like it used to. Please tell me how reading up or "doing something about it" will "cure" her. She can do all the reading and take all the vitamins and exercise all day and she will never produce those hormones again.

And to think that everyone's problem is as easy as yours and IS treatable without medical intervention brings me right back to saying your ignorant.


Once again, do you have reading comprehension problems?
Did you get too much ritalin as a child?

I never addressed your mothers medical trouble.
I was speaking about clinical depression.
I really don't give a rats ass about your moms hormone replacement therapy. That has no bearing on the subject of antidepressants being used as a tool to treat symptoms of depression.

And how do you know if nothing else would work for your mom if she was too "ignorant and closed minded" to try?
 
2005-06-25 03:10:55 AM
The Great Mutato

Thanks for projecting, come again soon.

/pussy
 
2005-06-25 03:15:25 AM
Come on...

Somebody laugh at the funny thing I posted...


Get it?

Because now, he is flipping out..

And he said he wouldn't.

But he is.

That's where the humor lies.

In the lies.


/actually on tom's side when it comes to antidepressants etc. but thought it was a funny joke.
/anyone?
 
2005-06-25 03:17:33 AM
There are sweeping generalizations being made here for either case.

However, I will say the 'just think about something happy and you WILL be' is a load of bullshiat. Happiness is relative.

TC's behavior on that Oprah episode really WAS creepy and over-the-top. I believe depression is a real thing and just taking vitamins from your local GNC cannot cure it. I'm assuming Tom is from the camp of placebo and that if you think you are getting 'well' that you, in fact, ARE well. Whatever. Placebos do work but that's why they are placebos, b/c they don't work for the population. Prescribed drugs can, do and will work.
 
2005-06-25 03:18:44 AM
People follow what tom cruise says? Even to debunk him? I think that's depressing more then anything. You have grad students creating new science but society follows chance losers who advocated jumping into lava for relief of societal burdens.
 
Seb
2005-06-25 03:19:07 AM
We should get a scientologist in the white house. That would be fun.
 
2005-06-25 03:21:46 AM
hig, they just don't like thinking of the human mind as an electro-chemical machine. it's really that simple and many neurologists know how to tinker. it's our arrogance that makes us think they can't screw with our "soul"
 
2005-06-25 03:26:50 AM
The Great Mutato:

It's your brain, people. If you feel bad all the time for no reason, just stop feeling bad, idiot.

This has to be one of the most naive and simplistic views I have ever read on Fark. And that's quite a ponderous accomplishment considering the competition.

As someone who has been diagnosed with clinical depression over the years by several different professionals, let me share with you how it really works. The feeling of overwhelming depression is not just 'feeling bad'. It is an all encompassing, debilitating, hoplessness about everything. Everything. Foods taste bland, sex is boring, and hobbies that used to entertain or give diversion are uninteresting. One does not feel anger, love or happiness. A pat on the back and a "cheer up buddy" is a distant ship's smoke on the horizon.

Over the years they found that people in this situation have lots of excess of a neurotransmitter Seratonin. Anti-depressant medication that either blocks the production, uptake, or re-uptake of Seratonin bring back a normal balance to the brain chemistry.

The times I've come out of depression with the help of an anti-depressant it is like someone took off my shiat colored glasses. Colors are literally brighter and the world is a lot more fresh and new. Of course it doesn't fix any real problems going on in your life but it gives you the ability to focus on what is really wrong. Rather than everything seeming hopeless, you realize that maybe your job does suck but lots of other things about your life do not.

Some people's brains benefit from a jump-start back into normal chemistry and then they are fine. Some people require maintenance doses for life.
 
2005-06-25 03:28:29 AM
i do think that some of the SSRI's and some of the newer drug's like remeron should NOT be given to children.
i've been on SSRI's since 94, when i was 24, and have come off of them for about a year several times.
i couldnt function at all when i was not on the medicine. i was a shell of a human stuck in my own nightmarish reality that made zero sense.
prozac, and some of the others ive been on have saved my life!
i now live a very responsible life, pay my bills, and contribute to society.
to say all these drugs are evil, well, all i remember is being stuck in my bedroom for the better half of a year to afraid to go outside, to afraid to look into the mirror, and half wanting to kill myself for feeling completely out of control of my life.
it works for me and it works for others as well.

some people just will not benifit from any sort of medicine at all. dont demonize the drug's when there is enough evidence to support the claims that they do work.
put your time into the doctors that prescribe ritilan to children within 10 minutes of seeing them! i would never let my children on that drug ever.
 
2005-06-25 03:29:20 AM
2005-06-25 03:08:55 AM sal-paradise


TurdBurglar

How's about this. You're in an accident. You lose a few muscle groups due to a trauma in a limb. Do you know how they treat that? They treat it with steroids. What does that do, it stimulates growth in those muscles that are left

Now if you can't cope on an out patient basis with therapy on a certain brain chemistry that was created by say.. a clinically depressed mother, an alcoholic father, removed stimulus or emotional trauma during the formative years. How would you deal with that?


Plenty of alcohol and recreational drugs...just kidding.

Btw, I grew up with a clinically depressed mother and largely absent father. Plenty of emotional trauma was also thrown in for good measure.

As I stated earlier, I sought out everything I could find on the matter. For me, it was a matter of strict diet and nutritional supplementation, and regular exercise.

And I know that most people won't even try this because they are too lazy and just want the quick fix of a drug for depression.

And of course it will NEVER work for people who never do anything but take the antidepressant.




It had nothing to do with drug companies, it has everything to do with understanding neurochemistry and how susceptible it is to outside events.

My only reply to this is that the drug companies have ZERO interest in anyone actually being cured of depression. They only want to treat the symptoms so you are always dependent on their drugs.
 
2005-06-25 03:29:43 AM
Pshaw-"For shame. I'll forgive you."

Aww, that's awfully sweet of you.
Still doesn't change my opinion though.
A fundie is a fundie no matter which religion they're selling.


/Not buyin'
 
2005-06-25 03:31:06 AM
Thanks BearToy

My sister who is a diagnosed depressed has basically said the same things to me--thanks for sharing. People just need to be more open minded and not think that depression is something that you can 'snap out of.' It's a legitimate chemical imbalance in your brain.
 
2005-06-25 03:32:06 AM
Einstein was a Jew.
 
2005-06-25 03:34:24 AM
I have friends that went into depression for no apparent cause. Maybe there is a cause there that they can't determine and maybe it would be beneficial for them to try and locate and fix it. However, there are surely some that can search as much as they want and never find it. Maybe it is genetic. For these people, there is no problem to be masked, because there simply is no problem. It just happens, just like people get cancer. No one knows why some people get it and others don't, some correlate it to genetics as well.
 
2005-06-25 03:38:12 AM
apo,



you win!
 
2005-06-25 03:40:10 AM
the farked thing about all this is that you can ask the same questions lauer is asking about ritalin, about scientology...

maybe it does work for some people (like tom cruise). why shouldn't it be allowed to? why should it be held up to such ridicule, just because some fark-tards have been into it before and given the world the impression its all weird.. this what lauer is saying about ritalin: its what cruise is saying about scientology, too.

you can say this of anything thats intended to help a person out: ritalin, kabbalah, scientology, sex therapy, etc. just because its not 'mainstream' doesn't mean its not worthy of careful inspection and application with a view to getting the intended results. this is what lauer is saying about ritalin, and its what cruise is saying about scientology.

in between all that, however, are a lot of people making a huge noise about shiat they don't know anything about, really..

maybe ritalin is easier than scientology, because its just a little pill and everyone says its cool whereas scientology is supposed to be weird and destructive, but then maybe mental health isn't supposed to be something you deal with in an ease-society/mcdonalds spoon fed kind of fashion, which is what most drug-based 'solutions' are supposed to be: quick fixes.

i can see where these two ideologies conflict: one requires personal conviction and determination in the face of the mob (scientology), and the other requires that you seek and get a prescription from a doctor who is making a living off of doing such things (pills)..

personally i do not trust the drug-based solution, particularly given that its borne from a society already demonstrably mentally insane (America), a society who believes its okay to kill and maim and torture 'in the name of peace', while eroding peoples rights. too many times i've seen people try to get help from psychiatrists, and end up total farking zombies, and i'm no longer willing to just go along with the mob-think attitudes about 'alternatives' such as scientology, especially since i've known a few scientologists through work contacts, and they sure aren't zombies ..
 
2005-06-25 03:40:37 AM
LOOK AT ME! I LIKE TO COMPLAIN BECAUSE I AM ONE OF THE MINORITY WHO DOSN'T LIKE TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER! BOO HOO! MSNBC IS EVIL BECAUSE THEY USE THE BROWSER AND THE MEDIA PLAYER MOST PEOPLE LIKE TO USE! EVERYONE SHOULD DO WHAT I SAY SAY BECAUSE I LIKE TO USE AN ALTERNATIVE BROWESER BECAUSE I LIKE TO BE DIFFERNET! *QUEEF*!
 
2005-06-25 03:41:03 AM
I think the most surprising this about that clip was how clear it was on my computer.
Thank you Microsoft for making things so much better for me.
 
2005-06-25 03:42:27 AM
Depressed? Bipolar?

Jog it off, fatty.
No medicine for you!
 
2005-06-25 03:44:02 AM
Many of you will forget this comment.

Scientology will soon seem like the 'logical' choice for a lot of people, because they will be given no other choice.

I tell you, there is another choice, and that choice is Jesus Christ.

No, you cannot believe in this self-termed 'study of studies' and believe in Jesus Christ, because Scientology is fundamentally flawed in that it uses deception instead of truth to portray its methods of delusion.

If you are a Christian, beware of the fact that the upcoming movie "War of the Worlds" has been fashioned as a subliminal indoctrination into this culture of deception.

I have not read anything in this thread, and I do not plan on reading anything after this comment.

If you are interested in corresponding with me, you may contact me at:

friendlylight (at) gmail.com

I am a Bible-believing Christian, born again and baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

You don't have to limit discussion to just Scientology, by the way, I just wanted to put out there a little bit of light in this ever-darkening world.

=C=
 
2005-06-25 03:44:51 AM
2005-06-25 03:41:03 AM rexstardust


I think the most surprising this about that clip was how clear it was on my computer.
Thank you Microsoft for making things so much better for me.


That was amazingly smooth, wasn't it. Pretty impressive for a 13.5 min vid without a single hiccup or pause
 
2005-06-25 03:46:00 AM
xen0blue
LOOK AT ME! I LIKE TO COMPLAIN BECAUSE I AM ONE OF THE MINORITY WHO DOSN'T LIKE TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER! BOO HOO! MSNBC IS EVIL BECAUSE THEY USE THE BROWSER AND THE MEDIA PLAYER MOST PEOPLE LIKE TO USE! EVERYONE SHOULD DO WHAT I SAY SAY BECAUSE I LIKE TO USE AN ALTERNATIVE BROWESER BECAUSE I LIKE TO BE DIFFERNET! *QUEEF*!

Oh, and everyone knows Firefox is superior to IE, duh... :)
 
2005-06-25 03:48:16 AM
I didn't know Tom Cruse knows the history of psychiatry. Wow everything about psychiatry. He knows everything.

S-eye-co
 
2005-06-25 03:48:51 AM
I just thought I'd put my drunken words in...
He is a farking lunatic, arrogant and sophist in such ways where he refuses to answer a direct question. I would hardly consider praising him over his mention of the over-diagnosing of patients and children with ritalin as it is a mainstream issue that has been spoken about. I am a bipolar manic depressive, drugs such as Zyprexa have helped me greatly. Its not a false sense of help, a new person, but the same person that I've always been and had been before the bipolar symptoms started up. I detest this mockery of biochemical science just as much as I destest the mockery of evolution. Thats all..
 
2005-06-25 03:50:06 AM
Tom Cruise thinks too much. He should just shut-up and let other people with degrees in medicine and psychiatry do the thinking.
That's what happens when you have too much money... you go nucking futs!


whoa, what the fark? 'let someone else do the thinking'? you do realize that this is the height of ignorance, right? such proxy hand-offs are how we get Total farking Disaster in societies: Welcome to Fascism 101. if we don't balance authority with inspection and analysis from external non-authoritative sources, we get totalitarian dictatorships. didn't you learn that in civics class, for cryin' out loud?

(read any Orwell?)

seems to me in this interview tom is saying "don't just let someone else do all the thinking about your problems for you, you have to do some thinking about it outside the box".. and he's getting flamed for that?

we really do live in a Brave New World. that people can just up and say 'let all the authorities on a subject be the only source of information about that subject' proves that, time and again ..
 
2005-06-25 03:53:08 AM
Fark makes my brain hurt
 
2005-06-25 03:56:41 AM
Anyone else notice the time duration: 13:37
 
2005-06-25 03:58:20 AM
Look - the guy believes that little green men are going to come and take all the chosen ones away... Is it a big syrprise that he is too dumb to understand the merits of psychiatry etc. Anti-d's gave me a break from dealing with the worst of my depression and helped me get my head straight and on the way to recovery. THEY HELPED A LOT! OK they were not easy to get off but they weren't that difficult. I managed to give up smoking while on them too!
This farking idiot has no idea of what real people's lives are really like! We don't get a billion dollar paycheck every week! We don't have 50,000 people fawning over our every move! We are nobodys who noone cares about who will never amount to anything. And we live with it and we can be happy with it, although sometimes we fall down and it takes some work getting back up again. But that doesnt mean some bullshiat alien religion idiot in his high castle can lecture us about handling depression!!!

Having been on anti-d's and being in therapy myself, I find his comments grossely offensive and I honestly wish I had been in Leicester square with my own version of a water pistol to soak him with. My version would be water recycled by yours truly's demented kidneys of course! Then we'll see who's taking the piss!
 
2005-06-25 03:58:28 AM
Chosen: I tell you, there is another choice, and that choice is Jesus Christ.

Yes and all that crap is just as made up as scientology or Santa Claus.

Take your Xian sales drivel somewhere else.
 
2005-06-25 03:59:09 AM
I dunno why this unedcuated loser gets any more press then any other "faith base" lunatic. I want center stage to express my unfounded beliefs that if everyone pets a marmoset that the world will enter a new era. It's all my alien diety is looking for PET A FARKING MARMOSET.

for god sake
 
2005-06-25 04:01:33 AM
/me PETS A FARKING MARMOSET

hey what do you know, i feel better. I DO FEEL BETTER!!

:)

nice MARMOSET, have a lolly .. OWWWW!!!! FARKING THING BIT ME!

fark MARMOSET PETTERS, kill them ALL!!
 
2005-06-25 04:02:53 AM
2005-06-25 03:50:06 AM ingvar


...seems to me in this interview tom is saying "don't just let someone else do all the thinking about your problems for you, you have to do some thinking about it outside the box".. and he's getting flamed for that?

I've been flamed repeatedly for saying basically the same thing all night.

Jeez, people...if you wanna just remain a victim your whole life and never try to do anything about it, be my guest.

Just don't always try to tear down those who choose to do something about it rather just than blindly follow.

I guarantee you this, you will never gain anything if you never try.
 
2005-06-25 04:03:10 AM
No matter how crazy Tom Cruise is, I still want to see War of the World and I would kill to have sex with half the women he has. Half of the women themselves, not with the number that equals half of the women that Tom Cruise has had sex with.

/would cross my fingers for Nicole Kidman
 
2005-06-25 04:03:24 AM
Great! Now I'm oppressed. Oprah is gonna get such a shaking.
 
2005-06-25 04:08:09 AM
Cruise and other actors and singers should just shut up and stop spewing their crap. Just "Shut up and Sing" Just because you make a shiat load of money doesn't make you an expert on antyhing.


If it wasn't for psychiatry I'd be dead right now.
 
Seb
2005-06-25 04:09:44 AM
BearToy, I think Chosen is an atheist just pretending to be religious to get a reaction out of people. You know, just like how you're really a WASP pretending to hate religion.
 
2005-06-25 04:10:26 AM
yes turdburgler, try to minimize everything you said, then after that make sure you tell everyone that they act like powerless victims, even though they have explained that they are not. It's a perfect way to attempt to look ration even tho you're distorting reality.

good for you.

what asshole thinks that people who've struggled with depression haven't looked at all the options in themselves. You know NOTHING.
 
2005-06-25 04:10:30 AM
ingvar: Like any grandiose delusional person, Tom Cruise believes that he himself alone should understand the fundamentals of everything. He does this because he is delusional.


He feels that it is up to him and him alone to rule, not knowing that, as Plato had said, that every man has his craft and has his roots in society. One man can never master all these crafts, no man is ever an island, Tom Cruise could never live on his own.


He holds contempt for the thousands of medical professionals that have studied molecular biology and know it far better than him. If I were Tom, I would stick to being an Actor/Priest(communicactor) and not try to pretend as if he can rule the world on his arrogance alone.


We all have our own subjects of expertise. We all rely on each other, to have contempt for society is a sad and often arrogant mistake, its as though you are denying the collective unconscious, denying the work that millions/billions have done before you and continue to do so, inventors, artists, mechanics, architects, geniuses, and the like have performed exquistly by being humble and understanding what task they seek to innovate and be skillful in in our society.


Philosophers so stuck on our spiritual mind, so quick to judge you for doing wrong. What have they ever done, objectively, in our society? This holds for all religions. Only the humble people who know what they are good at bring us the gifts that we have received. We may not always find who it was that gave us these gifts, but we appreciate them.


Its a false sense of thinking that you could be excommunicated and live on your own for the rest of your life in a forest and be completely content. Men become insane from lack of social contact alone for a good reason. Just as men become insane from arrogance. Arrogance and prejudice are the two major cancers effecting our society today. Great minds such as Plato, with his modesty, understood what society really is. Understood things in an objective sense. I will always remain grateful for my forefathers, the great people that have created this society that we live in, and the every day people, the educated professionals, that are so skilled in there crafts to continue to make it great.
 
2005-06-25 04:14:44 AM
neelb420 has pointed out TC's immaturity perfectly. I submit it's created by wealth at an early age. I think the environment of unjustified wealth in an individual creates a furtile environement for arrested development, and adoption of irrational, random belief systems.
 
2005-06-25 04:18:36 AM
I would like anyone who aspouses an opinion on a forum to be forced to speak that same opinion in front of his friends.

So all the childish attention whoring filth in society would finally be embarrassed and have to face their own sick inadequacies.

/hates trolls
 
2005-06-25 04:20:39 AM
Last post for me tonight.

I've been thru the whole clinical depression diagnosis thingy, and yes I understand all about chemical imbalances, and yes I've been on paxil and prozac, and yes they helped treat the symptoms tremendously.

I also understand that there are alternatives to drugs to defeat depression. Of course these alternatives will NEVER WORK FOR YOU if you never TRY them.

I freely admit, prozac is a pretty awesome drug for treating depression, but wouldn't SOME of you with depression rather find a cure without the side effects of prozac? You KNOW which side effect I'm talkin' about :)

All I'm saying is don't believe your only option is whatever flavor of the month drug your doctors drug salesman has been pushing on him.

That being said, those of you battling depression, you have my total sympathy and empathy.
 
2005-06-25 04:22:26 AM
Mr. Tom Cruise is correct. I'm sorry friends, but these mind altering drugs are poison.


/Feel Good INC.
 
2005-06-25 04:23:15 AM
songoku:

Phil Herup: I'd like to see Bill O'Reilly ask Tom a few things.

The only think I'd like to see Bill O'Reilly do is die a painful and prolonged death on-camera. Preferably in a way that's also very ridiculous. Extended choking on a falafel, for example, would be a treat.


hehe, yeah. do you remember NOSBOIS, National Organization to Send(Shoot?) Bill O'Reilly Into the Sun? I thought it was a good idea then, and I think it's a good idea now.
 
2005-06-25 04:23:47 AM
neelb420:ingvar: Like any grandiose delusional person, Tom Cruise believes that he himself alone should understand the fundamentals of everything. He does this because he is delusional.

you can tell all this about him from this interview? wow, you must be a trained psychologist, or at least someone who thinks that such flippant assessment is a valid way to eradicate the meaning behind someones point of view.

i think what tom said was: research the history of psychiatry and you will find evil deeds, and evil men whose purpose for drugging entire generations may not be as 'holy' and as 'innocent' and 'righteous' as you think. its true: the forefathers of the modern pscyho-pharmaceutical movement are a bunch of farking weird, farking secretive, totally suspicious individuals whose admitted social agenda's may not be so palatable to people who do bother to think for themselves about an issue, and not just blindly follow along, as if the mob-view is the sole righteous 'sub-conscious' we all ought to be party to.

i respect cruise for standing up to the entrenched establishment in that regard, because the fact is: there are a fark-load of zombies out there who wouldn't be that way if it weren't for the society around them prompting them to get addicted to incredibly addictive, mind-altering substances .. say what you want about $40,000 space-alien stories, the psycho-pharmaceutical organizations (associated with techno-millitarist mega-corps) are raking in $Billions from poor addicted suckers, daily.

and here's something you ought to consider pretty much twice, no three times, before you react: far too many of the enemies America has defeated in the past have had the goal of a chemically controlled society at the root of their ideology for me to overlook the fact that in this day and age, America is a chemically controlled society.

how about you think about that before you go kow-tow'ing with the mainstream religious mob-mind point of view that 'only people with chemistry sets know anything about life'.. psycho-pharmaceuticals have a social agenda, hidden from view by the public, which is not necessarily the one their Paxil (tm) ads reveal to you: profit from happiness, control peoples minds.
 
2005-06-25 04:29:07 AM
2005-06-25 04:10:26 AM sal-paradise


yes turdburgler, try to minimize everything you said, then after that make sure you tell everyone that they act like powerless victims, even though they have explained that they are not. It's a perfect way to attempt to look ration even tho you're distorting reality.

good for you.

what asshole thinks that people who've struggled with depression haven't looked at all the options in themselves. You know NOTHING.


I know that you're a cock.

So far, I haven't heard a single person tell me anything alternative that they have tried.

And I stand behind everything I've said. If you can't handle the truth, thats your problem.

BTW, I never said anyone acts like a powerless victim. I merely suggested that that is one of your choices. Be my guest.
 
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