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(InfoWorld)   Microsoft tells users to uninstall Netscape 8, saying it could cause IE problems. In other news, your shoe's untied   (weblog.infoworld.com ) divider line 272
    More: Unlikely  
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12826 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 May 2005 at 11:40 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-05-28 04:02:14 PM  
codewritinfool

Sweet, thanks! I'll redownload and try these out tomorrow, then have a look at the extensions suggestions posted by phoxxy and hopefully others.
 
2005-05-28 04:07:55 PM  
Crosma - sorry, I misread that as being wrote by phoxxy
 
2005-05-28 04:09:05 PM  
[image from please.leisuretown.us too old to be available]

I'm kinda disappointed this hasn't been posted by now.
 
2005-05-28 04:13:51 PM  
Thank God Microsoft is not a Dr.

"Hey Doc I got this wart on my hand here."
"Okay, No Problem, we'll remove that for you right away."
Dr takes out a very large knife.
"This might sting a little bit."
"Umm doc, isnt that a bit much for removing a wart?"
"Ohh... I'm not removing the wart, I'm removing the hand."

Microsoft super-logic at work again.
 
2005-05-28 04:15:16 PM  
thestereo

also, on a semi related note...does anyone know how to get rid of IE icons on the desktop?

In WinXP Pro you can rightclick the desktop and select properties > desktop tab > customize desktop, where you can disable the four MS icons. If this isn't available under WinXP Home I know you can still do it with TweakUI.
 
2005-05-28 04:15:19 PM  
The only popup I've gotten with firefox in its out-of-the-box configuration is drudgereport.com and RobDude's website.

To be fair.

:wq
 
2005-05-28 04:17:19 PM  
RobDude:

phoxxy
I'm not trying to say that FireFox isn't a good browser but if you did all these things to their computer (like cleaning up 2500 files, installed AVG, adblocking software, etc) maybe they like the increased performance they see and they attribute it to running FireFox, when had you done those same things and setup the latest version of IE they would have, agian, seen a huge performance increase and said 'Wow, IE is great'

//Just wondering


I had cleaned up their computer previous to that point and left then using IE prior to that. Actually a number of times. I won't say IE was completely their problems with viruses. That had a lot to do with Norton. That and it slowed their computer down. But after far as spyware and unwanted other crap appearing on their computer from just their normal browsing, that has been cut down to almost nil. Also, they had a problem with IE locking up on them repeatedly. Now they don't have the lockup problems with Firefox.

In addition I also switched them from Outlook Express to Thunderbird. They really like that as well.

Love Thunderbird myself. The whole circle will be complete once they get a calendar syncing Palm conduit for Sunbird. I loath using Outlook for anything other than when needing to use with an exchange service. Personally, I'm rather excited that Novell has brought on someone to help port evolution over to Windows. I would like to see how well that port goes and if it maintains the same functionality as the Linux version (i.e. Palm syncronization, etc).
 
2005-05-28 04:19:19 PM  
Alveolar_Stop:

If this isn't available under WinXP Home I know you can still do it with TweakUI.



Hot damn! I'm just testing the farkit pluggin from www.fark.com/firefox and it rocks! Why have I been in the dark so long.

Is it going to post random cliches too? Oh god, I can only hope.
 
2005-05-28 04:22:11 PM  
I use Firefox, but i don't like having to download a handful of extensions to make it perfect for me. Of course, I understand Firefox is what the automotive industry might call a 'concept car.'
 
2005-05-28 04:22:19 PM  
PlEEEEase tell me no one uses Outlook anymore. Please. For my own sanity.

/did tech support for years
//has every outlook menu memorized
///uses mozilla mail
 
2005-05-28 04:23:28 PM  
ferrocene:

Alveolar_Stop:

If this isn't available under WinXP Home I know you can still do it with TweakUI.

Hot damn! I'm just testing the farkit pluggin from www.fark.com/firefox and it rocks! Why have I been in the dark so long.

Is it going to post random cliches too? Oh god, I can only hope.


The highight of my day is seeing whether or not Henry Earl is in jail.
 
2005-05-28 04:24:52 PM  
Alveolar_Stop:

you can rightclick the desktop and select properties > desktop tab > customize desktop, where you can disable the four MS icons.

hey thanks! that worked perfectly. never again will i have to forcibly eject someone from my computer room.
 
2005-05-28 04:26:47 PM  
CobraCC:

I use Firefox, but i don't like having to download a handful of extensions to make it perfect for me. Of course, I understand Firefox is what the automotive industry might call a 'concept car.'

The blessing of Firefox is that you can customize to your liking. The extensions give you for more flexability. What extensions might work for some, they might not work for others. I think that's what is great about it as well. I think perfect is relative. Firefox is "perfect" for me with the way I have it set up. My extension list might not work or be usful to someone else.
 
2005-05-28 04:27:14 PM  
"LOL. And I thought I was the only geek out there that used vi and loves it."

Not a chance. Vim is da bomb.

:wq
 
2005-05-28 04:29:18 PM  
ferrocene:

PlEEEEase tell me no one uses Outlook anymore. Please. For my own sanity.

/did tech support for years
//has every outlook menu memorized
///uses mozilla mail


Unfortuantely, I have one place where I have to use it. A site I'm doing some contract work for has be shackled into using it w/ their exchange server. But that's only for their mail. All other 22 email accounts that I use frequently are still safe. :)

/hates Outlook just as much as you do....
 
2005-05-28 04:29:52 PM  
CobraCC:

I use Firefox, but i don't like having to download a handful of extensions to make it perfect for me. Of course, I understand Firefox is what the automotive industry might call a 'concept car.'

The beauty of firefox is that nothing stops you from adding in the extensions you want and then offering the new incarnation to the world. It is open source after all. With cars, you gotta take whatever Michigan shells out. And actually give them money for what they shell out, too. Wow, are all open-source junkies becoming closet socialists? Hmmm...
 
2005-05-28 04:39:34 PM  
I'll stick to open-source software that isn't owned by the Man. (MS = AOL in terms of evil)
 
2005-05-28 04:41:15 PM  
That's funny.
/Another Firefox 1.0.4 user.
 
2005-05-28 04:54:17 PM  
Please, people, for the love of God, stop with the changing of names of things you don't like.

I keep reading M$, Microsuck, Linsux, FireSux, Windblows, and any other pathetic attempt at changing a name into a deragatory remark.

You don't like a product, fine. State why, and state why you prefer other products. But leave the childish name calling to yourself. I mean, jeez, I haven't changed someones name into a taunt since elementary school.
 
2005-05-28 04:57:49 PM  
bbcrackmonkey:

Who would ever want to get a Mac desktop? You can't change or alter the hardware in any way and you can't play any new videogames.

Fair enough. If all the latest and greatest games are important to you, then you'll need a PC. The selection of games for a Mac is by no means limited, but there is a lag in getting the newest stuff. To some people, that's important.
Hardware is changable on a Mac, but it depends on which Mac you've got. I've got an eMac and a Mini, so I can't change the video cards or motherboards. Processor upgrades are available, and hard drive, memory, and optical drive upgrades are easy on the eMac, and also possible on the Mini. But what percentage of the computer-using population upgrades the graphics card, motherboard, or CPU on a regular basis? Heck, how many even upgrade the memory? Not all that much. On many proprietary systems, such as Dell or HP, many of those upgrades aren't doable. (Try upgrading your video card without an AGP slot. It can be done, but you lose the bang for the buck. And the motherboards are often customized for the OEM, so replacements won't fit.)
We'd had PCs for ten years, and had no problem with viruses, spyware, etc., but it required constant work to keep it that way. I've had my eMac for 2-1/2, and it's running as smooth as day one - but without having to do all the things I had to on my PC - no anti-virus, no spyware sweepers, no software firewalls, no defragging, no reinstalling the OS because it had corrupted beyond repair, and so on. That's why we finally dumped my wife's PC to get a Mac Mini. I want to spend my time using my computers, not maintaining them.
 
2005-05-28 05:04:08 PM  
May be Mac-bound.

So far, All I am doing with my PC is playing WoW and surfing the web.

WoW is on the mac...

Give me one more reason, MS.
 
2005-05-28 05:04:16 PM  
bbcrackmonkey

Well you can play World of Warcrack on a Mac. Which seems to be the big deal for a lot of people gamingwise.
 
2005-05-28 05:05:26 PM  
bbcrackmonkey

Who would ever want to get a Mac desktop? You can't change or alter the hardware in any way and you can't play any new videogames.

Give me a call when all major videogame developers, modders, and programmers decide to make their shiat mac-compatible, and Mac decides to allow the user to alter their hardware.


After all, that is the point of having a computer, isn't it? Playing video games.
 
2005-05-28 05:17:19 PM  
SomeBigFarkingMan

...

How is that stupid? Program interaction? GASP, NO, NOT THAT! WE CAN'T HAVE OUR PROGRAMS WORKING WITH EACH OTHER, IT'S MADNESS I TELL YOU.


Interesting how you had to take a semantic approach, rather than offering an actual argument. You offer no argument to counter what they say, and then engage in such asshattery as "We can't have our programs working with each other..." The registry is not the only way to make that happen-- it's just the worst way. Linux programs work with each other. So do Mac apps. Could you please tell us where the registry is on Linux and Mac? Please? The point, as you are perfectly aware, was not to criticize the idea of program interaction. It was to mock MS' half-assed, stupid way of doing it.
 
2005-05-28 05:25:46 PM  
Firefox.
 
2005-05-28 05:32:58 PM  
http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-1.0.4&os=win&lang=en-US
 
2005-05-28 05:56:41 PM  
I use Firefox.
I use Thunderbird.
The day they have open-source OS with an alternative to DirectX, I'll use that too. But right now I like my games too much.
Has anybody ever used linspire? I use it on my backup box and it runs great.
 
2005-05-28 06:17:44 PM  
Does anyone even USE Internet Explorer anymore??

If so, please, let me show you something spiffy.

Mozilla Firefox

Also, you can disable IE from rearing it's ugly head(somewhat) by disabling it within XP.

Start->control panel->add/remove programs-> windows components -> uncheck ol' IE
 
2005-05-28 06:19:42 PM  
Major Thomb: I actually agree with Microsoft for a change but not for the same reasons. I've been very unimpressed with the quality of nutscrape since version 5. There's better browsers available.

Okay, you either just displayed arrogant ignorance, or clever subtlety. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but your past record on Fark pretty much precludes the "clever subtlety" option (as further evidenced by your oh-so-[not]-clever "nutscrape" pun - oooh, that's right up there with calling Microsoft "Microsloth" or "Micro$oft" or "M$"! - see ShadowKnight's cogent commentary on that subject).

For the record, there was never a Netscape 5. Netscape 4.77 was the last of the Netscape Communicator line until the first Gecko-based browser, Netscape 6. They skipped 5 because Gecko was such a complete rewrite and redesign from the ground up that they felt that it was two major versions ahead of what came before, not just one.

I'm no big fan of Netscape. Everything that they (rightly) accused Microsoft of in the anti-trust trial, they did themselves first. How do you think they got that 90+% market share that they bemoaned MS "stealing" from them with such underhanded tactics as coming up with proprietary extensions to HTML standards that only IE could render? Well, how many here still remember, "This site looks best in [or even requires] Netscape Navigator 1.1N or later"? While many of the enhancements did later make it into official HTML standards, things like Frames, Layers (non-CSS), and even Tables started out as proprietary Netscape enhancements! Now, granted, they were good enhancements for the most part, filling gaping holes in the HTML 1 and 2 standards, but they were proprietary, and other browsers of the time (such as Mosaic) couldn't use them, and so couldn't compete (and this was when Netscape still cost money to download!).

That's how they got that 90+% market share in the late 1990s.


To All:

More useful FireFox extensions:

Linky (right-click on selected text containing one or more links, even ones not so marked in HTML, and open them all or the ones that you choose in new Windows, new Tabs, etc.)

Launchy (right-click a link to open it directly in another program, including not only IE, but, for instance, open .MP3 links directly into the MP3 player of your choice rather than letting FF open a new blank browser window, then close it and finally open your default player)

Open Selected Text (in New Window or Tab) -- Linky also does this, but this one is much faster. Simply select a link that was not pre-marked in HTML tags, right-click, and select Window or Tab. Voila! Linky first pops up a list of all links in your selection (even if there's only one) and asks you to check which ones you want opened - an extra step, and an unncessary one when there's only one link (it should detect that scenario and simply open the danged link without asking which one first!)

Another cool thing about the Web Developer Extensions: a single keystroke toggles all CSS on a page. Try it at CSS Zen Garden (an awesome demonstration of the power and importance of CSS).
 
2005-05-28 06:31:15 PM  
"PlEEEEase tell me no one uses Outlook anymore. Please. For my own sanity."

Hundreds of thousands use Outlook at their work, and not have a choice. I actually like it.
 
j z
2005-05-28 06:39:13 PM  
Firefox is good but tabbed browsing is the most over hyped creation in internet history. I use Firefox because of Forecast Fox and Farkit.
 
2005-05-28 06:48:06 PM  
bbcrackmonkey

Who would ever want to get a Mac desktop? You can't change or alter the hardware in any way


1. A G5 PowerMac can use pretty much any hardware a PC can use, except, of course, for the CPU and motherboard. Memory? Standard. Video Cards? They're all available- both NVidia and ATI. DVD-ROM? Yep, both external and internal, via USB2, firewire, or IDE, among others, without drivers most of the time. Hard drives? Same thing. Mouse? Keyboard? Game controller? USB flash memory? Yep. All those things are USB these days, and Mac pioneered USB while Windows 98 was still unable to use it. Sound Cards? Not that a Mac user would need it since Macs have very nice built-in sound, but yep- USB and internal models available. So tell me- What hardware were you referring to that I can't use with my Mac? I have yet to have any problems finding hardware for anything. Please, enlighten me as to what hardware you would need for your computer that you couldn't put into a Mac. . . Or are you still referring to Macs from the 1980s?

And how, exactly, would you "alter" your hardware significantly? Overclocking can be done on a Mac, as can liquid cooling and adding fans. What else is there?

Give me a call when all major videogame developers, modders, and programmers decide to make their shiat mac-compatible, and Mac decides to allow the user to alter their hardware.

Well, Blizzard always releases their stuff in dual-format for Mac and PC. What games are you referring to? How's this list for new and good games?

Knights of the Old Republic
Doom 3
Warcraft III (full series)
Battlefield 1942 (full series)
World of Warcraft
Call of Duty
Neverwinter Nights (full series)
Everquest
Dungeon Siege
Diablo II (full series)
Age of Empires (full series)
Starcraft
. . .and thousands more. Those were just off the top of my head. Certainly, there's sometimes a short wait for game releases, and many games never do make it to the Mac, but EA Games, Bioware, Microsoft, Blizzard, and most of the other major companies do port their games to the Mac.

If more people owned Macs, then we'd see even more games released for the Mac, since it's easier to program, more stable, and has just as many options for graphics cards, accessories, and media.

And again- you mention "altering" your hardware. I'd love for you to explain to me ONE THING you can do to a PC that you can't do to a Mac.

Otherwise, people who point out "Oh look OMG no spyware!" are just masturbating in their own superiority, since I don't get any spyware either since I've used Firefox.

It's not just "OMG no spyware" but no viruses, no glitches, no adware, no pop-ups, no access to my system AT ALL unless I enter in a administrator's password.

I use both Mac and PC. I have a PC to play games, mostly. There are games I can't play on Mac (City of Heroes, for example) and so I keep a high-end gaming rig around. On the other hand, when I have serious work to do, I switch to the Mac. It's just plain BETTER at handling work. It's faster, more efficient, and less of a risk.

I do use Firefox, of course. Either way, on the PC with Firefox, McAfee, and Ad-Aware (not to mention Windows firewall), I still get trojans and pop-ups. I still get the occassional adware. On the Mac, this never happens.

And by the way- Between my PC and Mac I share a firewire hard drive, a USB2 DVD-RW, a Logitech Wireless Mouse and Keyboard, my Olympus digital camera, my Canon scanner, my DSL connection (Mac is wireless, PC isn't) and a set of Creative Digital Surround Speakers. The PC needed drivers to use most of this stuff (not the speakers, obviously) but the Mac managed to connect and use all those devices without so much as a hiccup upon connecting them.

If you're going to biatch about a computer platform, you might want to know something about it before sounding off and appearing to be a PC fanboy idiot. The Mac is as non-proprietary with hardware as possible these days. I could pull just about any computer accessory off a store shelf, and probably use it with my Mac with minimal fuss.

Of course, if all you do is play games, then you don't need a Mac. You're better off waiting for the XBox 360 so you can have all those games without having messy things like word processors, office programs, photoshop, accounting programs, and other serious applications cluttering up all your gaming fun. Who needs productivity, anyway? From your major complaints about the Mac, it sounds like what you're looking for is a toy, instead of a computer.

Nothing wrong with that, but don't slam other people for choosing a computer when they don't need a toy.
 
2005-05-28 06:58:24 PM  
"Firefox is good but tabbed browsing is the most over hyped creation in internet history. I use Firefox because of Forecast Fox and Farkit."

I can guarantee you if I had a choice of tabs and getting a forecast for my area that only changes twice a day, I'll go with the goodness of the tabs.
I like me tabs, will not do without me tabs. Doesn't use FF.
 
2005-05-28 07:25:50 PM  
nbrfwhoooo The best and cheapest firewall? Buy a router, works for me. =D
 
2005-05-28 07:45:06 PM  
A G5 PowerMac can use pretty much any hardware a PC can use, except, of course, for the CPU and motherboard. Memory? Standard. Video Cards? They're all available- both NVidia and ATI. DVD-ROM? Yep, both external and internal, via USB2, firewire, or IDE, among others, without drivers most of the time. Hard drives? Same thing. Mouse? Keyboard? Game controller? USB flash memory? Yep. All those things are USB these days, and Mac pioneered USB while Windows 98 was still unable to use it. Sound Cards? Not that a Mac user would need it since Macs have very nice built-in sound, but yep- USB and internal models available. So tell me- What hardware were you referring to that I can't use with my Mac?

I think the obvious answer is that when he says Mac, he isn't talking about a G5- macs being things starting with lower-case Is and Es.
 
2005-05-28 08:07:33 PM  
bbcrackmonkey:

Who would ever want to get a Mac desktop? You can't change or alter the hardware in any way and you can't play any new videogames.

Give me a call when all major videogame developers, modders, and programmers decide to make their shiat mac-compatible, and Mac decides to allow the user to alter their hardware.

----------------------
I'll give you the video game thing. Video game developers aren't developing for the Mac as much as they ought to. If you are a PC gamer, a Mac's not for you.
However...
Hardware modification isn't possible? That's funny... If I want to add memory, I go to the same guys you go to. Same for hard drives. Processor too slow? contact any number of 3rd party vendors and get a faster one. My desktop computer is an G4/867. However,the only thing Apple about it is the computer itself. My keyboard is from Logitech, my mouse from Microsoft (hey, it was free. and all the buttons work natively without drivers, for those who want to jump on the "one button mouse!" bandwagon. My monitor is a Sony, the speakers are some cheap Radio Shack setup (again, free... I don't willingly pay too much for stuff. My hard drive is an off- the- shelf drive I got from Maxtor, and my memory is from Viking. I'm thinking of upgrading the processor some time soon... I'm looking at GigaDesigns and NewerTech.

Want to do some case mods? um... do the same thing you do on a Windows machine.

Apple's been using standard hardware for a while now. Oh yeah- the name of the company is Apple. Not Mac. It's the same as saying you drive a Civic brand car.

I'm not trying to tell people what computers to use-use what you like. But you ought to actually know something about Macs before you bash them.
---------------------

Msfan: Then when you want to upgrade, throw it away and buy another one.

Yes, because stupid cartoons from Red vs. Blue, written by people who probably have never touched a Mac in their lives are true. Read my above post about upgrading. Also... I have an old Power Macintosh 8500 from about 10 years ago. I upgraded the hell out of it over the years. It currently has a 400 mhz G3 (although there's G4's up to 1ghz available to fit that board) 512 MB of RAM, an older ATI video card, and a 20- gig HD It's running OS X 10.3, and doing so well. I don't believe it's possible to upgrade an older Intel- based board that far. Try running win XP on a 10 year old machine.

And my laptop- It's stock, other than the HD. But I can change out the processor for a faster one if I wanted to simply by removing the card, contacting a 3rd- party vendor, and popping it in. I'll give you this- Apple's current laptops can't be upgraded in this manner... but neither can anything on the PC side.
---------------

Fish in a Barrel:

I believe the problem is your choices are generally very limitted. How many different video cards are for the PC versus the Mac?

----------------------
Yes, that's true. Mac users don't have to dig through the crap when we want to get something. In my experience, the good stuff makes it to the mac, while the junk just fades away. Makes it easier, really.
-----------------------
 
2005-05-28 08:11:44 PM  
Netscape sucks anyways.
I have it but don't use it. (Mac and PC)
 
2005-05-28 08:16:30 PM  
what a bunch of pussies...

[image from fapomatic.com too old to be available]

just use lynx and be done with it.
 
2005-05-28 08:30:00 PM  
heh. next major version of IE will have tabs resulting in smashing firefox back to the gutter where it belongs. dear firefox developers, make it *faster* than IE and you may get some support.
 
2005-05-28 08:33:37 PM  
"just use lynx and be done with it."

Not if it loads as fast as that image
 
2005-05-28 09:09:53 PM  
What the fark is the internet?
 
2005-05-28 09:24:21 PM  
Actually...Netscape 8 did make my entire system work dramatically slower when in use. It works fine when not using Netscape. So there may be some truth to this.
 
2005-05-28 09:44:28 PM  
Got to join the parade here ...

It's simple: if your top priority is playing the newest games on your computer, get a PC.

If you love providing maintenance, endlessly, just to keep your computer working -- that is, if your time means nothing to you -- get a PC.

Otherwise, there is no reason not to buy a MAC. All the above complaints have been debunked time and time again; they are wrong.

If you're serious about computers, and even mopre serious about getting work down fast, efficiently, and with no hassles, get a MAC.
 
2005-05-28 10:33:06 PM  
[image from pbase.com too old to be available]
[image from pbase.com too old to be available]


/please excuse my gloating.

// really detests the Microsoft mob
 
2005-05-28 10:36:26 PM  
swahnhennessy:

along with phoxxy's recomendations I would add these extensions for more/better security
Flashblock - control over flash stuff
Objection - more control over flash stuff
Adblock - w/FilterG adblock list
Noscript - javascript blocker w/whitelist
Cookie Button - easy access to cookie permissions
Cookie Culler - extended cookie manager
Make Link - make html or forumcode links via the context menu
 
2005-05-28 10:38:54 PM  
I'm on dialup, and Firefox is indeed necessary. IE loads disgustingly, and I haven't bothered with Netscape since highschool.
 
2005-05-28 10:45:13 PM  
OK, I love my eMac (the CRT version, 800mhz G4, 768MB, OS X 10.2.8). But compared to the Dell I use at work, it is slow. It might take 5-10 seconds to open/save/close an Office document. Not much time, really, but it is an eternity while staring blankly at the screen. I can only guess how slow it handles one of my hugely layered Photoshop files in comparison to a PC. No real point here, just letting off some steam.

/Since this is about browsers, Safari is the best.
 
2005-05-28 11:10:43 PM  
how bout.. all computer and their crap programs suck just about equally. kudos to the idiot that bought all the crapple equip, steve jobs loves you frickin fanboy retards. I can't stand anyone being a fanboy for any shiate computer stuff. it all sucks stfu and gbtw. god this post is retarded.
 
2005-05-29 12:06:34 AM  
POWRSURG
I don't see why a user couldn't load the page in NS8 and then set it to the Firefox rendering engine (it allows users to switch between IE's Trident and Firefox's Gecko rendering engines at will) if they are seeing a borked XML page.

You would think so, but on the examples I have seen at work - it doesn't. Most of the pages using the affected XML were apparently written with IE in mind, so they are still fsck'ed.
 
2005-05-29 12:25:38 AM  
http://sji.chessclub.com/sji/

Anyone able to help with this?

I play online chess a lot but I can only do so with IE. Apart from that it's firefox all the way.

Help me to play chess on firefox, please, much smarter tech-heads, so I can get rid of IE altogether. Thanks.
 
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