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(InfoWorld)   Microsoft tells users to uninstall Netscape 8, saying it could cause IE problems. In other news, your shoe's untied   (weblog.infoworld.com) divider line 272
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12820 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 May 2005 at 11:40 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-05-28 02:45:24 PM
Ok, I just downloaded and tried firefox 1.0.4. It still locks up the browser for 15 seconds while I download. 15 seconds in internet time is aeons. I have places to go and things to do in that time. IE doesn't do this.
 
2005-05-28 02:45:55 PM
RobDude: Get thee to Bugzilla!

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ (Fark doesn't like https links)
 
2005-05-28 02:46:19 PM
RobDude:

And yes I realise that the pop-ups using my method posted above only happen when the person browsing the site clicks on a link....

but, when was the last time you visited a site that didn't have any links to click on?


Yes, but some of us just don't go click crazy and click on every damn link we see. We actually pay attentionto where we are going.
 
2005-05-28 02:46:20 PM
4 computers all with Firefox - Never had a problem. I've had more trouble with IE crashing than I ever have had with Firefox.

There's about 3 banking sites and a internal site at work that requires IE. No big deal.

The benefits of Firefox far outweigh its limitations. Which is how I choose software. Screw MS, Apple, AOL, Netscape, etc. and the open source movement. Make the best thing, and I'll use it.

Stopped using IE when Netscape 3 was better.
Went back to IE when Netscape 4 fell behind.
Went to Firefox when it surpassed IE.
Still use IE when I find a site that uses applets Firefox supports.
 
2005-05-28 02:46:48 PM
Okay - I just went and downloaded the newest version of FireFox.

Go to this page and see for yourself.

It's a tiny paragraph - read it and follow the instructions before you come back here and say it didn't work.


I'm using Maxthon - no signs of pop-ups.
 
2005-05-28 02:47:03 PM
phoxxy

Er, I'm sorry - I was unclear. Yeah, fark doesn't have any pop-ups, but I'm saying that if it did - FireFox would be vulnerable to them.

Whenever you click a link FireFox allows you to create new windows in the OnClick event. Most pop-ups using the OnLoad event so that the pop-up shows up as soon as the page loads - and FireFox seems to block those just fine. But if everyone uses FireFox and nobody can see the OnLoad pop-ups people who designs sites with pop-ups are just going to start using a different method.
 
2005-05-28 02:47:11 PM
2005-05-28 02:40:35 PM elchip
I was kidding. An old/lame joke, but a 'joke' nonetheless.

And I fell for it. Sigh. Must be too early in the morning.

I can make my way through Linux, but I simply have never bothered to learn all the important details... I'm lazy like that.

I also hate vi.


Blasphemer! You're one of those Emacs heretics, aren't you!
 
2005-05-28 02:47:53 PM
Xear: Download what from where? How many background processes are there? You need to give more specifics.
 
2005-05-28 02:48:28 PM
Balki's Homeland
I'm using Maxthon - no signs of pop-ups.

I use IE and no pop-ups either. But in FireFox I get about 15
 
2005-05-28 02:49:33 PM
Xear:

Ok, I just downloaded and tried firefox 1.0.4. It still locks up the browser for 15 seconds while I download. 15 seconds in internet time is aeons. I have places to go and things to do in that time. IE doesn't do this.

That doesn't tell us a lot. What are OS are you using? WHat's the speed of your computer. Do you have other software installed running in the background? Just to say it doesn't work is stupid.

99% of the time, if Firefox isn't "working" it is because of some other factor and not Firefox.
 
2005-05-28 02:50:15 PM
I love vi!! Hell, I install cygwin on Windows computers just so I can use vi (actually vim) instead of notepad!

bersl2

I figured it's probably a hack. Someday (probably this summer) I will have time to sit and figure out how. I suppose that would involve learning XML? For now I was kinda hoping for a check-box.
 
2005-05-28 02:50:31 PM
phoxxy
Yes, but some of us just don't go click crazy and click on every damn link we see. We actually pay attentionto where we are going.

The link location itself doesn't matter. The link on the page I made sends you to google and google is of course pop-up free.
 
2005-05-28 02:50:36 PM
I use IE and no pop-ups either. But in FireFox I get about 15

Which would reflect common knowledge that while FireFox does have a pop-up blocker, it's quite bad.
 
2005-05-28 02:50:41 PM
GoodDamon: I also hate vi.

Blasphemer! You're one of those Emacs heretics, aren't you!


LOL. And I thought I was the only geek out there that used vi and loves it.
 
2005-05-28 02:50:56 PM
bbcrackmonkey: Who would ever want to get a Mac desktop? You can't change or alter the hardware in any way

Things you can do with whitebox PC hardware you can't do with a Mac

     swap mother board
     swap case

Number of time I've upgraded the motherboard on my whitebox pc without swapping RAM, CPU, hard drive, case, power supply, and video card, in the last 20 years:

     0

I'm one of those freaks who keeps boxes and boxes and boxes of old computer parts in the garage, and even I honestly can not think of a single time in the last 20 years when a Mac would have crimped my upgrade path. All of the things that are upgradable on a Mac -- RAM, CPU, hard drive, video card -- are about the only things worthwhile to upgrade on a PC, too. I've never swapped a motherboard without buying 80% of an entirely new machine.

/needs to upgrade motherboard soon, and may be able to keep his keyboard, mouse, and speakers...
 
2005-05-28 02:51:15 PM
There's some misinformation in this thread, but it's pretty good so far. Remember, NAT is not a firewall, they are two different things. And you probably mean PAT, since no one really does NAT anymore.

I use firefox on all my computers, Linux and Windows. This makes switching to an all-Linux system much easier. All my friends use GAIM now for chat, and OpenOffice for docs.

One day, they can all switch to Linux and have a totally free O and still know how to use the programs.

Raise your hand if you bought that copy of windows or photoshop or office. Ok, that's 3 of you...


I use moox builds of firefox. It's an optimized version of firefox. www.moox.ws. The version I'm using is optimized for a P3 on my laptop, while the one on my desktop is compiled for Athlons. It's a bit faster, but the "installer" sucks.
 
2005-05-28 02:51:38 PM
2005-05-28 02:45:24 PM Xear
Ok, I just downloaded and tried firefox 1.0.4. It still locks up the browser for 15 seconds while I download. 15 seconds in internet time is aeons. I have places to go and things to do in that time. IE doesn't do this.

Ouch. Man, that's pretty weird. I work in tech support for a pretty big company, and I've never seen anything like that. Like I said earlier, my first suspicion would be some third-party hijack of the TCP stack or somesuch that is geared to work with IE but doesn't know what to do with Firefox. Maybe run a spyware/adware scan? Otherwise, do whatever works best for you. I've heard good things about Maxthon, which adds all sorts of extensions to IE to make it have tabs, popup blocking, etc. You might do well with that.
 
2005-05-28 02:53:45 PM

Xear: Download what from where? How many background processes are there? You need to give more specifics


I'm talking about free 50 second videos. I right click the video link, hit, "save link as" and save the video on my hard drive.

This always results in a 15 second lockup of my browser until the download is complete. Any help you can offer is appreciated bersl2.
 
2005-05-28 02:53:59 PM
This isn't merely saying that they like Linux:
Microsoft...IE...??

Oh, yeah, I run Linux. Hah. You guys have dumb problems.

That is a smug superior fanboy attitude. It reeks of "I'm smarter than you because I run Linux".

I tried Red Hat, and for the life of me I could not find a reason to make myself learn how to use it. XP does what I want, with virtually no problems that aren't related to overclocking (basically user problems). I would never go to a forum where someone was asking for help with one of the endless number of Linux distros and post "Hah, you should just run XP, I have no problems"! So why do so many Linux users feel no constraints about doing that?
 
2005-05-28 02:54:13 PM
RobDude:

phoxxy

Er, I'm sorry - I was unclear. Yeah, fark doesn't have any pop-ups, but I'm saying that if it did - FireFox would be vulnerable to them.

Whenever you click a link FireFox allows you to create new windows in the OnClick event. Most pop-ups using the OnLoad event so that the pop-up shows up as soon as the page loads - and FireFox seems to block those just fine. But if everyone uses FireFox and nobody can see the OnLoad pop-ups people who designs sites with pop-ups are just going to start using a different method.


I know the difference between the two. I'm a web developer as well.
 
2005-05-28 02:55:17 PM
RobDude:

Whenever you click a link FireFox allows you to create new windows in the OnClick event.

That's not where most popups come from. Most are loaded automatically when you first visit a site. The fact is I have seen almost no pop-ups using FireFox. Throw in all those lovely extensions and tabbed browsing (which I initally thought was completely pointless) and I'm sold.
 
2005-05-28 02:56:28 PM
It's not a huge problem. I just use Firefox for all normal websurfing and then IE to download movies and pictures. Then after using IE I do major spyware scans and remove the crap.
 
2005-05-28 02:56:54 PM
I use ZoneAlarm and AVG anti-virus, as well as Ad-Aware. The free and easy options. But I have not had a virus for as long as I can remember. I use P2P on a pretty regular basis, too. I think what counts the most of anything is just not being stupid. Know what you're downloading, be aware of where you are on-line. Am I untouchable? Hardly. But someone would have to pretty much single me out and be very sneaky about it before I got infected.

As far as Firefox allowing pop-ups, I've noticed here lately that more seem to be getting through. Not enough to make it annoying, but enough to realise that it has gotten weaker (or the bastards have gotten stronger).

Anyone have any useful plug-ins they want to plug? Currently I use Farkit and BugMeNot, both of which have their uses. Give me some advice on some other handy ones.
 
2005-05-28 02:57:26 PM
The Larch:

All of the things that are upgradable on a Mac -- RAM, CPU, hard drive, video card -- are about the only things worthwhile to upgrade on a PC, too.

I believe the problem is your choices are generally very limitted. How many different video cards are for the PC versus the Mac?
 
2005-05-28 02:57:57 PM
Fish in a Barrel
That's not where most popups come from. Most are loaded automatically when you first visit a site

For some reason, I get the feeling you only read about the first sentence of my post.

1.) Whenever you click a link FireFox allows you to create new windows in the OnClick event.
2.) Most pop-ups using the OnLoad event so that the pop-up shows up as soon as the page loads - and FireFox seems to block those just fine

So, while most people who use FireFox don't have pop-up problems, if more people start using it I'm quite certain that other methods of displaying pop-ups will come around....like the one I demo at my website (the link is above somewhere)
 
2005-05-28 02:59:32 PM
Repo Man:

This isn't merely saying that they like Linux:
Microsoft...IE...??

Oh, yeah, I run Linux. Hah. You guys have dumb problems.

That is a smug superior fanboy attitude. It reeks of "I'm smarter than you because I run Linux".

I tried Red Hat, and for the life of me I could not find a reason to make myself learn how to use it. XP does what I want, with virtually no problems that aren't related to overclocking (basically user problems). I would never go to a forum where someone was asking for help with one of the endless number of Linux distros and post "Hah, you should just run XP, I have no problems"! So why do so many Linux users feel no constraints about doing that?


But yet you are escentially doing the same thing here. I don't really think anyone here has been rubbing anyone's nose in the fact they are stupid for not using Linux. So what. Someone mentions they use Linux and don't have the problems.

I think you are just sore because you failed to learn something new. It would be different if you attemtped. You just gave up because you felt that you didn't need a reason.

Well, guess what. I use both Linux and Windows. I would prefer being on a Linux box any day of the week. But my work requires the use of both. Usually people who have reason to biatch about Linux are those you like remaining ignorant.

Grow up and get your panties out of a wad.
 
2005-05-28 03:01:46 PM
Grow up and get your panties out of a wad.

Have fun "coding to standards", buddy.
 
2005-05-28 03:02:15 PM
swahnhennessy:

Anyone have any useful plug-ins they want to plug? Currently I use Farkit and BugMeNot, both of which have their uses. Give me some advice on some other handy ones.

Network Tweak
Googlebar Lite
Adblock
Smoothwheel
Print It!
Print Preview
Print Image
Download Manager Tweak
Auto Copy


Just for starters....
 
2005-05-28 03:04:43 PM
Balki's Homeland:

Grow up and get your panties out of a wad.

Have fun "coding to standards", buddy.


Actually, I don't have a problem. Maybe you failed to read that I work both with Linux and Windows. I prefer Linux. Doens't mean I use it exclusively.

I just get tired of the Windows whiners biatching about "elitist" Linux users and how they mistreat them. I have yet to really see that.

Personally, I think he just wants to have something to biatch about.
 
2005-05-28 03:10:23 PM
Fish in a Barrel:

RobDude:

Whenever you click a link FireFox allows you to create new windows in the OnClick event.

That's not where most popups come from. Most are loaded automatically when you first visit a site. The fact is I have seen almost no pop-ups using FireFox. Throw in all those lovely extensions and tabbed browsing (which I initally thought was completely pointless) and I'm sold.



What he is refering to are usually sites like Warez ad Pron sites. Yes. They have a habbit of using those types of tactics. But for those of us who don't spend time surfing those websites, then it isn't a problem. Webmasters for those types of sites have ot do that because they are trying to make it more difficult for people to leech files in addition they are trying to get as many click-throughs as possible to generate money for bandwidth.

Legit websites that you average person goes to doesn't have this problem. And only with half a brain would just use bittorrent for getting files instead of surfing the other sites.
 
2005-05-28 03:12:02 PM
phoxxy

Eh? And to think I get paid for a living working with *nix servers.

Hence my "on the home platform" remark. I'll rephrase: On the home platform, Linux will only ever be used by geeks.

elchip

Isn't it time for you to go do your weekly kernel-recompiling?

You do realise that I said Linux was unsuitable for normal home users, right? You're attacking me on a point we agree on, just because you desperately want to attack me. Again, who has the bad attitude here?
 
2005-05-28 03:21:45 PM
It started off withthis one:

The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better so I went for better and loaded FreeBSD and Linux and haven't gone back.

Then moved on to the one I previously posted. And it goes on all day long at any computer forum, here, other places, with the standard usage of the made up adjective "windoze" (see, that's clever because you have so many problems with it it makes you sleepy!)

Yay, I use Windows and I don't have any problems! My comparison to vegetarians and Linux users stands. I'm not a vegetarian, I have no interest in becoming one, and I don't care what others eat. Vegetarians who preach that I should become one, and I'm stupid for not being one, and that if I tried it I'd never go back annoy me. Can you see the obvious comparisons to be drawn?

I didn't "fail to learn something new". I was curious, I set up Red Hat on a spare Socket A machine, and I learned that there was nothing about Linux (Red Hat at least) that interested me in the slightest. I dual booted it with Windows 2000 Pro, and finally formatted the Linux partition after realizing I never booted into it.
 
2005-05-28 03:23:11 PM
<a href="http://www.google.com" onclick='popitup("http://www.google.com")'>Click here</a>

I see...so if one has javascript diasbled (*ahem*), then nothing happens. I enabled it, and it does work. So it's doing what it's supposed to do. What's the problem here?

Oh yeah, flash pop-ups that open ads W/O clicking on a link. But the flash blocker is marvelous.

:wq
echo post.html
 
2005-05-28 03:23:40 PM
Again, who has the bad attitude here?

Well, you did cause the threadjack which turned this into FireFox vs. Internet Explorer - Round #27635.

You like both FireFox and Linux.

Point taken.
 
2005-05-28 03:26:56 PM
Okay - I just went and downloaded the newest version of FireFox.

Go to this page and see for yourself.

It's a tiny paragraph - read it and follow the instructions before you come back here and say it didn't work.


In FF it brings up about 5 mindows and locks up for about a minute (v1.04).

In IE it brings up one window and doesn't lock up at all.
 
2005-05-28 03:27:25 PM
Crosma:

phoxxy

Eh? And to think I get paid for a living working with *nix servers.

Hence my "on the home platform" remark. I'll rephrase: On the home platform, Linux will only ever be used by geeks.


Actually there are more and more distros being put out there was virtually plug and play and don't require much if any configuration by the end user.

It isn't the difficulty of use that is prohibiting Linux from making a strong showing at home. Games are the biggest reason home users are still on PCs. Hell, you think I could run my World of Warcraft, Joint Ops, Neverwinter Nights or Civ 3 on Linux? No way in hell.

There really isn't a big learning curve for Linux if all you re going to be using it for is general internet use and or business related tasks like word processing, etc. There's the whole other side to using Linux involving programming and development, but that's just used by "us geeks". Actually. I'm a nerd, but whose counting anyway? :)
 
2005-05-28 03:29:12 PM
Thanks, phoxxy. The GooglebarLite in itself was worth it. I missed having that from my IE, but had heard too many horror stories about what it does. The search bar in Firefox is nice, but I missed the options I had with the Google toolbar.
 
2005-05-28 03:30:35 PM
2005-05-28 02:47:11 PM GoodDamon

Blasphemer! You're one of those Emacs heretics, aren't you!

The Dark lord of the X-Emacs calls you...
 
2005-05-28 03:31:47 PM
Balki's Homeland

Well, you did cause the threadjack which turned this into FireFox vs. Internet Explorer - Round #27635.

Firefox was mentioned in 20 posts before I even posted in this thread, and I haven't mentioned either Firefox or Internet Explorer until this post. So, how did I cause the threadjack?
 
2005-05-28 03:36:10 PM
Just get a Mac.

Windows Weenies.
 
2005-05-28 03:37:18 PM
Alveolar_Stop:

Try looking around in Firefox's settings by typing "about:config" in the address field.

There are hundreds of settings there.

URL autocomplete is:
browser.urlbar.autocomplete.enabled

double-click on it to change its value from true to false.

Also, see
this site

Paul

P.S. Another great tool is the WebDeveloper extension. You can disable things like Java, Javascript, etc. and then with a click or two turn them back on. You can get it here.
 
2005-05-28 03:37:34 PM
Repo Man:

The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better so I went for better and loaded FreeBSD and Linux and haven't gone back.

How is that bad? They didn't say you were stupid for not using Linux, now did they? It was a jok not directed at anyone other than making fun of Microsoft Windows. It is an OLD joke. If you feel that such a remark is elitist and making such a stab are you, then you have "issues."

I call Microsoft, "The Dark Side." But I still use it and I still get paid the big bucks to work in a Windows environment.

You know it is pretty pathetic when you call Microsoft for support regarding an issue with their server software and they can't even tell you a fix. I can go to any forum regarding linux, find the problem I'm looking for and get an answer immediately.

It pays the bills. Linux because it is so specialized and Microsoft because the software is so crappy in some instances that if can do nothing by provide you endless work.
 
2005-05-28 03:40:27 PM
hdhale:

As for Firefox, I installed it to test how Firefox users view my website. It's ok, but if you are using it just because it isn't a Microsoft product and not because it's better (and by that I mean you can come with with some legitmate reason its better that doesn't amount to another variation on Macspeak), then you have some issues.


even my mom uses firefox. she says she likes it because its so much cleaner and smoother than IE. i dont know if her not knowing shiat about computers would help or hurt my stance that Firefox is much more enjoyable to use than IE.

also, on a semi related note...does anyone know how to get rid of IE icons on the desktop? i use Firefox exclusively, but when people come over and use my computer they always click on IE even though the icon is labeled "DO NOT farkING USE THIS."
 
2005-05-28 03:40:37 PM
swahnhennessy:

Thanks, phoxxy. The GooglebarLite in itself was worth it. I missed having that from my IE, but had heard too many horror stories about what it does. The search bar in Firefox is nice, but I missed the options I had with the Google toolbar.

No problem. The Network Tweak is nice because it allows you to configure Firefox to load even faster.

codewritinfool:

P.S. Another great tool is the WebDeveloper extension. You can disable things like Java, Javascript, etc. and then with a click or two turn them back on. You can get it here.

Amen. Love the developer extensions.
 
2005-05-28 03:45:33 PM
2005-05-28 02:57:57 PM RobDude

1.) Whenever you click a link FireFox allows you to create new windows in the OnClick event.
2.) Most pop-ups using the OnLoad event so that the pop-up shows up as soon as the page loads - and FireFox seems to block those just fine


I think this is a slight lack of clarity in Firefox's preferences dialog, it says "Block Popup Windows" wheras in Mozilla it says "Block unrequested popup windows".

and for people wanting a flashblock extension, I use this one: http://flashblock.mozdev.org/

You can also block the popups launched from flash by using about:config to set
privacy.popups.disable_from_plugins
0 - allow the popups
1 - allow them, but limit the number
2 - block them
if you choose 1 (allow but limit), then you should check the limit in the pref dom.popup_maximum
 
2005-05-28 03:48:43 PM
thestereo:

even my mom uses firefox. she says she likes it because its so much cleaner and smoother than IE. i dont know if her not knowing shiat about computers would help or hurt my stance that Firefox is much more enjoyable to use than IE.

My parents use it as well. After they gave me their computer to clean up -- it has over 2500 infected files on it, tons of spyware and other crap -- I put firefox on after they asked me if there was a way to help stop that kind of crap. I took Norton Antivirus off and put on AVG. Installed Firefox and now my parents have been spyware and virus free for nearly a year now. I put all the nice extensions on and even showed them how to use them. My dad isn't one for highlighting something and then trying to right click and copy. I installed Auto Copy and my dad loves it. It's easy to turn off in the bottom status bar and on again when you need it. Adblock does wonders for blocking java applet based images, flash and other anitmated type ads on web pages. They are on diaup. Disabling those page elements using adblock helps save on bandwidth and shortens the load time on frequently visited webpages.

All around, my parents tell me they will never go back to IE. They aren't computer savvy, but they know enough to know when something works and when it makes their online experience easier and safer.

Having AVG has also helped immensely. I stopped using adaware and spybot long ago. I use PestPatrol. Wouldn't use anything else.
 
2005-05-28 03:51:01 PM
ferrocene
Yes, if you turn of javascript you won't have a problem....but you know what - if you use lynx you won't have a problem either.

People come into these threads and say 'I've never gotten a pop-up with FireFox, IE sucks' and it annoys me. My example is to show people that FireFox isn't perfect, neither is IE.

The more features/functionality you remove the easier it is to ensure you have a safe product, a text only browser doesn't have too much to worry about - but, if you are going around without javascript enabled there are a lot of sites that aren't going to work. And, disabling javascript in *any* browser would stop the pop-ups from my site.
 
2005-05-28 03:55:28 PM
RobDude:

People come into these threads and say 'I've never gotten a pop-up with FireFox, IE sucks' and it annoys me. My example is to show people that FireFox isn't perfect, neither is IE.

I don't think that people have said that Firefox is perfect. It is better. Not perfect.

There are some pages that are created using FrontPage that if they use java based navigational elements, it will crash FireFox (or pretty much any other non-Microsoft browser). There are some sites (usually running with ASP pages) that have a hard time loading under anything other than IE.

Firefox isn't perfect. But it is a good start. Despite of the minor issues, in comparison to IE, I'll sing Firefox's praises any day. I use it on both my Windows and Linux boxes.
 
2005-05-28 03:57:06 PM
phoxxy
I'm not trying to say that FireFox isn't a good browser but if you did all these things to their computer (like cleaning up 2500 files, installed AVG, adblocking software, etc) maybe they like the increased performance they see and they attribute it to running FireFox, when had you done those same things and setup the latest version of IE they would have, agian, seen a huge performance increase and said 'Wow, IE is great'

//Just wondering
 
2005-05-28 03:57:51 PM
phoxxy
Fair enough - but a lot of people *do* say that they 'never' get any pop-ups in FireFox.
 
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