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(UPN34)   Winemakers gone wild   (upn34.com) divider line 58
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21398 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 May 2005 at 11:00 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-05-26 08:58:27 PM
I am NOT drinking Merlot!!
 
2005-05-26 10:30:02 PM
A government crackdown on drunken driving has also battered domestic sales.

But it's probably also kept some of their regular consumers alive to buy more wine. Dead guys are a tough demographic to market to.
 
2005-05-26 11:05:35 PM
I cant believe submitter didnt use the word "surrenders" in the headline... highly unsatisfying

/more so than a Jerry Lewis film
 
2005-05-26 11:06:43 PM
Definitely needed France surrenders.

Article didn't say but should we assume they were drunk?
 
2005-05-26 11:07:46 PM
Now the people have to resort to Night Train.
 
2005-05-26 11:08:05 PM
Link to the "woman falling out of the grape stomping barrel" video in 3...2...1...

/please don't. it's horrible.
 
GCD
2005-05-26 11:08:27 PM
French Winemakers Go On A Rampage...

Are they threatening to take a bath or something?
 
2005-05-26 11:08:44 PM
This does not bode well for the Sunday vote on the European Union thing there.

The French are finally catching on that free trade is likely to happen internal to said Union instead of everybody having unwanted competition strictly regulated away.
 
2005-05-26 11:12:07 PM
This has been going on for awhile. Frogs are pissed that much of the rest of the world has caught up to their wines.

Did anyone else catch this line?

A government crackdown on drunken driving has also battered domestic sales.

Well boo-frickin-hoo!
 
2005-05-26 11:18:10 PM
I am sad, because I have traveleled around this part of France, and it is very beautiful, with lotsa vineyards. Alas, most of those vineyards have not come over* to using modern techniques, though some were actually leaders in the very technologies that now threaten them. I haven't actually liked a French wine I've tasted for several years now, at least not as much as stuff from Chile, Argentina Australia, California, etc. Ah, well. Bienvenue a la ordre nouveu du monde.

*They regard this as "the dark side."
 
2005-05-26 11:19:17 PM
/loves me some frenchy wines
// likes the price of cheaper American, Australia wines
 
2005-05-26 11:27:34 PM
"Hey, let's protest the lack of government aid by busting up some train cars!"

"Yeah, that's relevant!"

"Wait, wouldn't we then be making life harder for the commuting workers who we want to buy our wine?"

"SHADDUP!!!"
 
2005-05-26 11:28:24 PM
Sounds strangely American, no?
 
2005-05-26 11:31:36 PM
Bienvenue à l'ordre nouveau du monde, I believe oldebayer means.
 
2005-05-26 11:33:13 PM
Anyone got a SB pic? Cause these frenchies are on a rampage!
 
2005-05-26 11:33:27 PM


I like my wine nutty, with a hint of cardboard
 
2005-05-26 11:35:00 PM
"Most people can't tell a fine wine from melted popsicles."
Dave Barry

This quote seems to apply somehow. Now sure how, though.
 
2005-05-26 11:36:36 PM


I'm on a rampage!
 
2005-05-26 11:37:14 PM
I think in honor of this event I will pop the cork on a nice pinot noir from the Carnaros region of Napa, damn those French Burgundies.
 
2005-05-26 11:37:35 PM
Qermaq

Sounds strangely American, no?

Debatably American, but not American farmers.
They're pretty passive by comparison to other workers here - is there a French Teamster's Union?

Okay, Canadian wheat farmers live in North America, and they've barricaded a highway or so, IIRC.
 
2005-05-26 11:55:49 PM
Pam EL:

Pam EL [TotalFark]

"Most people can't tell a fine wine from melted popsicles."
Dave Barry

This quote seems to apply somehow. Now sure how, though.


Sure it applies - the French are like popsicles who surrender to the sun and melt. See?

/I miss a good flamage every now and then
 
2005-05-27 12:00:23 AM
do you think they were drunk?
 
TWX
2005-05-27 12:07:41 AM
SicKiller:

Aw, didn't you read Curtain? Poirot isn't with us anymore.
 
2005-05-27 12:09:34 AM
our american culture has been so debased by freemarket propaganda that most of us can hardly conceive of the idea that the citizens of a country own it. Note that these winemakers are not the corporate giants that sell and make the vast majority of the wine here in USA. They are small time operators.
 
2005-05-27 12:14:36 AM
I love the "Enlarge This Image" link on that page...

The picture is so much more detailed when I enlarge it!
 
2005-05-27 12:21:44 AM
OMG Sounds Like Sour Grapes To Me :o)
Sorry I had tooo

>A crackdown on drunken driving has also battered domestic sales
! Fark-Them

 
2005-05-27 12:24:00 AM
The French are inherent losers. This line sums it up:

"Protesters were returning home from a demonstration in Nimes on Wednesday that gathered up to 10,000 vintners urging government aid."

If something is not working out for them, the French will urge Gorvernment aid rather than dealing with it. This sums up everything that needs to be said (And, it is why they will sink, even further, to obscurity).

"Mom! Dad! I'm 58 years old and I need a place to live! Please take care of me?!?"
 
2005-05-27 12:27:54 AM
"Yeah, that's relevant!"

LOL.

I think it's rediculous that they want the government to subsadise them. If you can't compete, merge. If you still can't make it... do like everyone else. Quit or start over. But it's not like you're feeding hungry kids, your making alcohol.

No, no shut up, you don't get government funding for that. Well, not unless I get government funding for drinking it. Then we might have an arrangement.
 
2005-05-27 12:30:25 AM
Wait! I've had too much cabernet to answer, any further, coherently. Is this off-topic?
 
2005-05-27 12:37:04 AM
cry0fan:

our american culture has been so debased by freemarket propaganda that most of us can hardly conceive of the idea that the citizens of a country own it.

Ummm... what? We own the freemarket propaganda? WTH are you trying to say?
 
2005-05-27 12:39:26 AM
Qermaq: Sounds strangely American, no?

if you mean that americans protest. NOT!!

there its riot sticks and shields.
here its guns ,rubber bullets, pepper spray, horses, boots to the head. and thats just a typical roadblock to prevent you from innocently driving down the road.

people are too scared and 'sober' to protest here..
 
2005-05-27 12:59:19 AM
theeagle

if you mean that americans protest. NOT!!
there its riot sticks and shields.
here its guns ,rubber bullets, pepper spray, horses, boots to the head. and thats just a typical roadblock to prevent you from innocently driving down the road.

people are too scared and 'sober' to protest here..


People here are too scared of losing their livelihood (and healthcare), and of going to jail or even prison. For men, one big deterrent is the threat of being anally raped in jail, and thereby having your life ruined.

The threat of anal rape is a huge deterrent to dissent.
 
2005-05-27 01:03:00 AM
jgrynspan

Bienvenue l'ordre nouveau du monde, I believe oldebayer means

I believe you are correct, but I am not ashamed to have come up with that off the top of my head and gotten so close.

/Knew about the diacritical mark, for sure, and simply whiffed on nouveau. ;~)
 
2005-05-27 01:08:23 AM
somemoron
cry0fan:

our american culture has been so debased by freemarket propaganda that most of us can hardly conceive of the idea that the citizens of a country own it.

Ummm... what? We own the freemarket propaganda? WTH are you trying to say?


Always glad to explain how the world works to somemoron.

American culture is acted upon and transformed by freemarket propaganda; propaganda that is created by business lobbies, think tanks, etc and disseminated by the media and entertainment industry.

France is resistant to such propaganda. Thus, their culture sees their country as something that they own and control. We do not have this same perception because we are not resistant to such propaganda. In fact, our very culture is a sort of domesticated livestock, evolved by decades of propaganda. So, we are decades removed from the perceptions of a country like France.

France and many other NW Euro countries like to set up their countries so that there are many industries and livelihoods that are protected from competition against large aggregrations of capital, meaning that France makes it easy for small business, sole proprietors, etc., to get into some business with having to compete against a corporation or even a larger and more heavily funded multiple employee business. They like having control of their lives without having to work like slaves in a race to the bottom hades like we have here. Imagine that!

Do you grok my thesis, somemoron?
 
2005-05-27 01:11:16 AM
one more point: "freemarket propaganda" is propaganda that holds that allowing capital to have its way is a good thing. IOW, it holds that neoliberalism is the only way to go (AKA: the TINA hypothesis (There Is No Alternative)).
 
2005-05-27 01:27:30 AM
Nice post, cry0fan.
I, for one, like the French. And their wine and food. Let's not forget that there wouldn't be a U.S.A without them.
 
2005-05-27 01:30:51 AM
wadems pretty much sums up my thoughts. Rioting because the gov't isn't giving you enough of a handout...


cry0fan, I "get" your thesis. It's flawed and wrong, but I grok it.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=fr&v=74

Looks to me that they aren't being given much option "to work like slaves."

To further my point, your tie is ugly.

Well, off to bed ;)
 
2005-05-27 01:43:37 AM
First, and foremost, no matter how France and other European countries "like" to set up their internal system for doing business, the current system they have set up within the EU makes your little microcosm impossible to perpetuate infinitely. The continual eroding of trade barriers and the unification of currency throughout Europe are only a couple of reasons why the very system you describe will not work for much longer. As goods and services flow more freely through a Europe united under the common EURO, people will more and more be losing their "ownership" of their country in exchange for a larger, more unified bargaining position on the world stage.
 
2005-05-27 01:44:52 AM
Okay, here goes, from a drunken wino... and I am not in the least a fan of the French in general, either. But...

The French, be them as they may, take their wine very seriously. To them it is more than a product, a commodity, or fermented grape juice. It is a matter of national pride. It hurt the entire French industry when the Bill O'Reilly's called for boycotts, and more so when the California, Oz, and Argentinian wines started selling good products for far less than your average Chateauneuf de Pape or Pouilly-Fuse.

Fact is that the French wine industry remains steeped in traditional methods, which may not offer consistency, but do offer prestige, while the New World wines tend to go for a consistent product with sometimes less prestige, but most importantly, a better price. There are 1,000's of wines from California, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, etc at less than $25 a bottle, most in the crucial $10-15 bottle range that smoke most French wines in the $25-50 range. Fact is that the French, who established most of the standards let technology pass them by. As a result, their market share is diminished drastically.

Not to say I don't like French wine- I do. But, to the average uneducated (read majority of wine drinkers now) consumer, its easier to say I like a Pinot Noir as opposed to a Domaine Drujac, even though both are Pinot Noir.

The French labeling system of naming the appellation (the region or town of the origin of the grape) is opposite to the American, Australian, etc system of varietal naming (naming the grape.)

In this way, the Appelation d'Origine Controllee (AOC) which regulates the wine made in France has let modern times pass them by, and they've lost their market.

So, typical of a socialist state, when a sector of the economy makes a faltering move in business, they turn to the government to bail them out. Very typical in France, BTW.

Carry on.
 
2005-05-27 02:04:26 AM
Everyone should see the wine stomp newscaster accident. It's a hum-dinger!
linky
 
2005-05-27 02:05:33 AM
I find it ironic that non-French producers started calling their product after the region the grapes were know for (Burgandy for Pinot Noir Chablis for Chardoney etc). So when French producers cracked down on the practice. the others educated consumers about grape varietals, and now no one knows what an AOC is except onephiles. It's too bad as too many California products are mass produced crap (there is still smoe good stuff out there). I've had decent luck with France, Italy, and Spain as far as bang for the buck goes.
 
2005-05-27 02:26:20 AM
natetimm

First, and foremost, no matter how France and other European countries "like" to set up their internal system for doing business, the current system they have set up within the EU makes your little microcosm impossible to perpetuate infinitely. The continual eroding of trade barriers and the unification of currency throughout Europe are only a couple of reasons why the very system you describe will not work for much longer. As goods and services flow more freely through a Europe united under the common EURO, people will more and more be losing their "ownership" of their country in exchange for a larger, more unified bargaining position on the world stage.


The neoliberals are making a run at France, et al., for sure, but NO WAY are they gonna succeed there. The french citizens will correct, put the neoliberals in their place, and will find a way to mitigate the EU rules that will instituted without real consent.
They will be able to do that because of their politically aware culture and because their governmental structure allows for the people to take collective action much more easily than us.
 
BHK
2005-05-27 03:02:43 AM
Ok cry0fan, what makes your spiel different from any other propaganda? Is it because you believe it to be the truth that you cannot see that your opinion is just that - an opinion.

Also, can you explain why it's a good thing for you to dictate to other why they should pay more for a product regardless of quality or desirability just because it's produced by a small business in the same country?
Would that be any different from claiming the right to dictate to others every part of their daily lives including religious practice, medical care, food choices, etc?
 
2005-05-27 03:47:29 AM
BHK
Ok cry0fan, what makes your spiel different from any other propaganda? Is it because you believe it to be the truth that you cannot see that your opinion is just that - an opinion.


Of course what I write is my opinion! Whose opinio would it be, if not my own? But I outline a rationale for what I say, and I often provide some evidence to back it up. What other people usually write is just a regurgitation of fauxleftist or fauxrightist propaganda--conventional wisdom etc. That is what I used to do myself before I took time off to really research a lot of stuff (history, politics, etc).

As for my spiel being "different," I really do think that it is, in many ways, although it is synthesized from many different sources.

See if you can google someone else saying what I wrote above. Bet you can't! :-)

I try to go where the silence is, to quote Amy Goodman. I look for the elephant that no one else sees standing in the corner of the room.


Also, can you explain why it's a good thing for you to dictate to other why they should pay more for a product regardless of quality or desirability just because it's produced by a small business in the same country?


First, I aint French, and I have no say in how they run their country. What I wrote above is my own observation and analysis of what I have seen. From what I can see, over in many NW Euro countries, there are a lot more small (real small) businesses than there are here. Many of them sell food and such. That is pretty rare here in America these days to see a sole proprietership in business. It is the Golden Rule here in America that takes precedence: those with the gold squeeze everyone else out. If you want to make it, you must work really hard. But in France, Sweden, et al., competition is restrained, making it easier to have a small business and keep it without working yourself to death: they do it by restraining growth in certain fields of commerce.
Why is that, I asked? Sweden even makes it hard to grow a business from one or two employees to more.

They set it up this way to accomplish something--to restrain the leverage that large amounts of capital has over labor and over smaller competitors.
 
2005-05-27 04:00:40 AM
Drunken_Irish_Joker is correct. French wine is the "gold standard" made with traditional processes. They spend the extra 90% of time and money etc to get that 10% of extra quality. Problem is that 90% of their wine does not benifit from the extra money/effort and many people don't want to spend the extra money. For example why spend $900 on a oak cask when you could just put some oak chips in a stainless tank and make a $10.00 wine... (I'm talking to you cali). Ok.. bad example for the wine snobs but you get the point.

Really what they should do is band together for an Ad blitz not unlike the milk/meat/egg indrustries in the US to educate poeple on the uniqueness of their products.

FYI if your looking for some of the best wine for great prices try Washington. We have $30.00 cabs that have exceeded $100.00 bottles from napa in blind tastings.. and not just a few.

/Employed at a well known Red Mountain Winery.
 
2005-05-27 05:22:51 AM
Just want to preface this by saying I've been in the wine industry for about 18 yrs...as a retailer and importer and wholesaler...

Anyone who is arguing that these people from that area of france are getting what they deserve because their prices are too high does NOT know the wines from that area. Yes -- Burgundy and Bordeaux are a different story. Most of the wines from that area - Costieres des Nimes, Languedoc-Rousillon are around $10 retail. The reason they are having trouble now is cuz the Euro is kicking the crap out of the US$ and Aussie$ I directly imported wines from that area a few years ago starting when the Euro and dollar were near 1 to 1...and even before when all the trade was done in Francs it was even more extreme. And we were paying anywhere from like 1.2 Euro to 4 Euros for some pretty good quality wines. So we'd pay $2 for a wine...cost about $1 for shipping and taxes...sell it to a retailer for $4.50, and the retailer would sell it for $6.99. So the actual winemakers were getting a whopping $2 out of every $7 bottle. Subtract the cost of the bottle, cork, case, taxes and label..and they are actually getting under a buck (Euro)for the wine. These are all old family wineries -- the equivalent of our midwestern small family farms. It's not like they're making these wines in some palatial Chateau...they're made on farms. If you just take that 2 Euro wine now...$4 US cost, another buck for shipping and taxes (although it's higher now w/ higher fuel costs.) that gets sold to a retailer now at $7.50, and to a consumer at about $11 - $11.50/ bottle. So that same bottle that they are netting under a Euro for is now about 64% higher on US shelves than 5 or so years ago. THAT'S why they are having troubles. Work that in reverse and US and Aussie wines are similarly cheaper there. Yes -- most of the wine produced there is drank there...but that whole area started seeing a huge increase in US and Aussie shipments 5-8 yrs ago and these little wineries were counting on that to survive.

And I agree with Andy -- Washington state wines are great values -- but Mostly when compared with California wines. Wines from JUST about anywhere else are as good or better values. Southern France included. Spain, Chile, Argentina, Portugal, Australia, Italy....the list goes on. Even with the crappy $. And also -- Oak chips or staves do have their place -- but if you are using chips and charging me $30 for a cab -- I'm getting robbed - cuz there IS a difference (wine snob or not).
 
2005-05-27 05:47:53 AM
oldebayer: l'ordre nouveau du monde


Actually, it would be "le nouvel ordre mondial"... "l'ordre nouveau du monde", while not really incorrect, is kinda awkward.
 
2005-05-27 05:53:33 AM
OK -- after all that rambling...I'd like to say I'm not the biggest fan of the French (Gov't) either. But I do feel kind of sorry for those farmers....although I do wonder what a French riot would look like...making threatening gestures with their Berets and flinging Crepes at the trains, and perhaps a little "farting in your general direction".

Anyways -- my point was that the wines from THAT area of France are STILL cheap (10-15 US) and very good. So THAT isn't the problem.

And Irish Joker -- comparing Domaine Dujac (there's no "r").. to most domestic Pinot Noirs, and saying Dujac doesn't sell because of the labelling is maybe a tad shortsighted. I'm pretty sure most people in the market for $150+ Echezeaux know what grape is in it and aren't intimidated by the label. And comparing Top flight Burgundy to either $20 Domestic Pinots OR even moreso wines from the area under discussion isn't even a reasonable comparison. Dujac = Ferrari. Expensive, extravagant, and amazing. S. French wines = Honda Accord. Solid, dependable, relatively good value. You can't fairly compare the two...two different buyers completely.
 
2005-05-27 07:43:50 AM
Sideways?
 
2005-05-27 08:50:16 AM
cue hyper-annoying wanna-be wine snobs.
 
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