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(Reuters)   Lawyers say the two America West pilots should not be charged with impaired flying because they could still walk, talk, see and hear. In other news, you don't need a brain to fly a plane   (reuters.myway.com) divider line 55
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4282 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2005 at 5:12 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-05-24 11:37:40 AM
>>In other news, you don't need a brain to fly a plane.

And the pilot in the Cessna 150 over D.C. confirms it!
 
2005-05-24 11:48:21 AM
Crap, is this another Terri Schiavo thread?
 
2005-05-24 11:53:20 AM
earthrhino: Crap, is this another Terri Schiavo thread?

What, she was only drunk? That totally changes my vote.
 
2005-05-24 12:01:26 PM
Them newfangled planes with their no-brain switching and automatons. In MY day we lashed the winchelnobit to the nearest starling, pedaled to beat the keiser and spun the overholster to keep her from walloping over! When we landed, it was always straight off to sacrifice a rabbit to the zephyr gods and a touch of the rum for luck!
 
2005-05-24 12:59:41 PM
In other news, you don't need a brain to fly a plane

I'm living proof of that. ;)
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2005-05-24 02:09:47 PM
How could anyone be so unkind
To arrest a man for flyin' while blind?
 
2005-05-24 05:17:36 PM
They bought their tickets
They knew the risk
I say, let 'em crash

(had to be said)
 
2005-05-24 05:22:56 PM
They bought their tickets
They knew the risk
I say, let 'em crash


A hospital...what is it?!
 
2005-05-24 05:27:54 PM
If you're over the limit, and drank within the pre-flight window, than you're guilty.

If this defense works I'll never plead guilty to a DUI.
 
2005-05-24 05:29:49 PM
It's always professional to fly a commercial plane while intoxicated.

I wish cabbies and bus drivers would pound a few down before they begin their shift.

Oh wait....
 
2005-05-24 05:35:42 PM
"A hospital...what is it?!"

It's a big building with patients...

but that's not important right now.


IT HAD TO BE ANSWERED
 
2005-05-24 05:36:59 PM
Submitter, your rhyme is sublime.
 
2005-05-24 05:37:08 PM
Sheet, I can stumble and swear--I mean see--when I'm drunk too. Where do I apply?
 
2005-05-24 05:37:13 PM
LessO2:

They bought their tickets
They knew the risk
I say, let 'em crash

A hospital...what is it?!


it's a big building where they take people that are sick... but that's not important right now...


/obvious
 
2005-05-24 05:37:33 PM
wow, great defense, if i ever get pulled over for DUI, i'll say "look ossifer, I can still walk, talk and see straight"
 
2005-05-24 05:38:18 PM
It's all about zealous advocacy.
 
2005-05-24 05:40:38 PM
In other news, you don't need a brain to walk, talk, see and hear?
 
2005-05-24 05:42:32 PM
sorry arader5, should have refreshed that one more time...

I remember a someone getting busted by police for getting drunk, then sleeping in their car, simply because the keys were in his pocket, so he was charged and it held up in court... they car was able to be started, and he was drunk and in the car with the keys on him.

does the plane have to actually take off and these guys be flying to actually get busted for this? granted we are getting to the point where some airplanes can fly themselves but i think that's still in testing...

maybe i should tell some friends about that defense... but offiseer.. i can cee....and walk... just not too straight...
 
2005-05-24 05:44:50 PM
The pair had played pool at a bar until 5 a.m. before the 10:30 a.m. flight and consumed 350 ounces of beer between them, the equivalent of nearly 22 pint glasses (10 litres), after earlier sharing a bottle of wine with two flight attendants, Assistant State Attorney Hillah Katz told jurors in opening statements at their trial.

22 pints and a bottle of wine 4.5 hours before takeoff?

8 hours from bottle to throttle says FAA. If they could walk, talk, see, hear, whatever is irrelevant.
 
2005-05-24 05:46:26 PM
I could eat a half-dozen hits of acid and still walk, talk, see, and hear. But I'll be damned if I'll pilot a plane like that. Or drive a car. Or ride a skateboard.

These guys are asshats. And probably former fratboys.
 
2005-05-24 05:49:54 PM
the legal limit for pilots should be .000000000000000000.
 
2005-05-24 05:53:46 PM
bigger news... Billy Idol is back...

O'Connell-Rodwell is particularly intrigued by one bull known as Billy Idol, easily recognizable by the extra holes in his large ears. "He's got a lot of ear piercings"
 
2005-05-24 05:54:57 PM
sorry, wrong window... freakin tabbed browsers... too much stuff...
 
2005-05-24 05:56:30 PM
The fact that the pair had consumed alcohol the night before and that they smelled of alcohol did not mean they were impaired, the defense attorneys said.
__________________________________________________________
No...the fact that they blew 0.091 and 0.084 meant they were impaired.
 
2005-05-24 06:03:11 PM
hell, we let the congressmen that determine the direction of this country get away with much worse. Chappaquiddick anyone?
 
2005-05-24 06:04:29 PM
on the phone...

He's a menace to himself and everything else in the air... yes, birds too.
 
2005-05-24 06:05:19 PM
"They couldn't endanger anyone as long as they were connected to that tug," said Cloyd's attorney

Police said Cloyd's blood-alcohol reading was 0.091 and Hughes' was 0.084. Florida law assumes a vehicle operator, including the operator of a plane, to be drunk if his blood alcohol level is 0.08 or higher, and state authorities charged them with operating an aircraft while intoxicated.


remind me again why lawyers have such a bad reputation.
if they weren't in florida, i'd expect a conviction.
but, since they are in florida....

/just sayin'
 
2005-05-24 06:07:05 PM
If you RTFA, the actual defense they are using is:

Defense attorneys said the pilots should not be convicted because they were not "operating" the plane at the time in question. The aircraft was being towed from the gate and the tug truck driver had control of the aircraft, they said.
 
2005-05-24 06:08:58 PM
jer2911tx:

remind me again why lawyers have such a bad reputation.
if they weren't in florida, i'd expect a conviction.
but, since they are in florida....



The lawyer can be disbarred if he doesn't do his best to get them off no matter how silly the arguments might be. The fact that this is the best he can do means they'd be better of pleading guilty but the lawyer can't make them do that.
 
2005-05-24 06:09:12 PM
"Defense attorneys said the pilots should not be convicted because they were not "operating" the plane at the time in question. The aircraft was being towed from the gate and the tug truck driver had control of the aircraft, they said.
"

Well in Oklahoma City, they have "Actual Physical Control" or APC. If you are drunk, behind the wheel and have the keys, you are charged with APC which is pretty much the same as DUI. I allows cops to bust drunks when they stagger out of the bar and climb behind the wheel, before they start the car.

For the first time in my life, I think OKC may be ahead of the curve on something.
 
2005-05-24 06:15:06 PM
Sorry, control of a "vehicle" does not imply that you are actually driving/flying/boating it. You are in control of a car for the purposes of DUI if you're behind the wheel and in possession of the keys.
 
2005-05-24 06:17:28 PM
greasedninja

I dunno.. That sounds to me like it borders on "precrime". When does it end? Can they arrest them for looking at a car in a way that seems like they are contemplating driving drunk?

I say wait till he does something wrong you arrest him.
 
2005-05-24 06:18:16 PM
Saying drunk pilots is redundant. Where are all my UND and Embry-Riddle peeps? Back me up on this.
 
2005-05-24 06:18:37 PM
If you think about it, would impaired reaction time really be a problem in a jumbo jet? They respong very slowly, so a few milliseconds worse reaction time, hell even a few seconds, won't crash the plane. Couple that with all the automation, and I woudn't be suprised if you could pass a flight test drunk.
 
2005-05-24 06:18:49 PM
jer2911tx:

remind me again why lawyers have such a bad reputation.

Because silly people on t3h internets don't understand the principle of zealous defense? You do the best you can for your client, even if it makes you feel squeamish, because that is what you are bound by oath and law to do.

if they weren't in florida, i'd expect a conviction.
but, since they are in florida....

/just sayin'


Having been exiled to Florida for too many years, I have to agree. There is a distinct chance that this will work.
 
2005-05-24 06:20:52 PM
Follow up to my posting above. I had a co-worker that hung out at tittie bars. When he got drunk, he would go out to his car, unlock the doors, then open the trunk and toss his keys in the trunk. Then sleep it off in the car. He figured the cops couldn't get him on APC because the keys were locked in the trunk.

Of course his car had a remote trunk open button in the glove box, but he thought the cops wouldn't know that.
 
2005-05-24 06:20:52 PM
CommanderApaul:

Sorry, control of a "vehicle" does not imply that you are actually driving/flying/boating it. You are in control of a car for the purposes of DUI if you're behind the wheel and in possession of the keys.


I think that one is arguable. If I'm boozing it up at home, go out to get something out of my car, I could be in that situation even with no intention of driving. On the other hand, they're going to have a real hard time convincing anyone that someone sitting in the pilot seat while the plane is being pushed back for takeoff was not planning to fly it. That will just get an eye roll from the judge.
 
2005-05-24 06:23:37 PM
No problem, WES_517.

Captain, how soon can you land?
I can't tell.
You can tell me, I'm a doctor.
NO, I mean I'm just not sure.


I CAN'T STOP.
 
2005-05-24 06:26:44 PM
stiletto_the_wise

I believe this law was created because the cops used to have to wait until the drunk was on "city streets". Once they are behind the wheel and on the streets, too many think they can out run the cops. I believe this law prevents some (if not many) 2AM high speed chases.

After all, you don't see many shots from OKC on COPS or America's Wildest Drivers.
 
2005-05-24 06:30:14 PM
MWeather: My Brother-in-Law teaches pilots how to fly 767's. I think he could dream up a few scenerios where a second or two might matter.
Not that I know, but based on the stuff he talks about, and him flying some wierd shiat in the first Gulf war, I imagine there's some situations like that.
 
2005-05-24 06:33:25 PM
"The aircraft was being towed from the gate and the tug truck driver had control of the aircraft, they said."

Which would have been fine if they were planning on being tugged all the way to Phoenix
 
2005-05-24 06:52:13 PM
I used to be a prosecutor in Florida and I tried a lot of DUI cases.

The law in Florida, at least a few years ago, was "actual physical control." So, if the pilots were in "actual physical control" of the aircraft, they're guilty. If the jury finds that the tow operators were in control, the pilots should not be found guilty.

While there is no hard and fast rule about actual physical control, if the keys are not in the ignition and they're somewhere where the driver can't get to them (such as the trunk), one stands a pretty good chance of being acquitted.

For what it's worth, I never prosecuted an airplane case but I did prosecute a guy whose car was being towed on a rope behind another car. If I remember right, he blew about a .12. And he was convicted.

Naturally, laws in your jurisdiction may vary. Don't rely on anything I said. Get your own lawyer.
 
2005-05-24 06:56:41 PM
In other news, you don't need a brain to fly a plane

Quick, someone post the picture of Dubya in the flightsuit.

(I keed)

(sort of)
 
2005-05-24 07:09:04 PM
I am with the defense on this business of the pilots not being in actual control of the plane. Everyone who has flown from MIA knows how long it takes to get from the gate to the actual runway. The drunken guy from Mayberry could sober up in that length of time, and these guys weren't that drunk. Well, not quite.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2005-05-24 07:14:43 PM
If this defense works I'll never plead guilty to a DUI.

This defense works against a charge of drunk driving, but not against a charge of driving with a prohibited level of alcohol in the blood, breath, or urine, while operating a motor vehicle or within two hours after operating a motor vehicle, which is what almost everybody is charged with since the country decided that not being drunk was a silly loophole.
 
TWX
2005-05-24 08:15:11 PM
A friend of mine is an airline pilot, he flew 757s for years and just started flying Airbus 380s.

You don't need a brain to fly a plane. Just about everything from takeoff to course correction to landing is handled by computer. You can fly manually if you really feel like it or if weather conditions have gotten so bad that it's necessary to manually do things, but for the most part the pilot is there for emergencies or other unforseen circumstances.
 
2005-05-24 08:38:47 PM
Rumack: Can you fly this plane and land it?

Striker: Surely you can't be serious.

Rumack: I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.


Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop using amphetimines.
 
2005-05-24 09:14:21 PM
private pilot check ride tomorrow morning, and i just passed the 12 hour bottle to throttle mark...wish me luck...
 
2005-05-24 09:38:26 PM
Don't forget your clearing turns.
 
2005-05-24 11:45:16 PM
Look, a plane!
And where there's a plane there's a pilot.
And where there's a pilot there's a bar,
and that means I'm saved!
 
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