Three things everyone can agree on:

1. Denzel Washington is one good-looking sonofabiatch.



2. Dogs are our friends.



3. Homophobes are teh ghey.

Oh_Enough_Already

I.. never... tried to say you were gay... (o,O)?
Also, i'm not AGAINST homosexuality because of our reproductive organs normal functions. That is just part of my argument.

Also, I never said anything about morals. I never bring morality into an argument (unless I'm trying to piss someone off):
1)Because i'm not a religious person, at all.
2)Morality has nothing to do with reason.

TheJollyMunchkin:

Actually I shouldnt have said anything at all, the conclusion is an inflammatory statement that I use to rattle peoples chains. I dont actually agree with it, but it is humerous to me.

Gotchya. Too bad some people realy believe that.
Ah well.

ttrafford:

LoveInAction

Repeat after me: "In his own image."

I don't think that refers to eye color or the number of fingers you have

Why is this being addressed to me? And what issue is it addressing?

I believe gays and straights are born that way.

You couldn't learn to be gay any more than you could learn to fly. You are who you are.

Those that "switch" after about a sixer are already there.

Uh, i should probably refine my above statement:

I'm not AGAINST homosexuality because of our reproductive organs normal functions. However I am not yet convinced that homosexuality is, in fact, genetic.
If I had to guess, I would say that it is about 50/50 in terms of behavioral (choice, nurture, etc) and genetic influences.

Also, I was wondering. IF homosexuality was determined to be genetic (this is just for fun):

Say a boy was born with the homosexual gene expressed. However, say he was raised in a completly straight household, somewhere where all this talk of homosexuality (in the news and stuff)couldnt reach him. Say he was raised to date girls, eventually found one he fell in love with and married her. Say they were living a happy life now, and the guy still has no clue that he has this "gay gene."

Is he a homosexual?

12:59:37 PM Beerden

I just wanted to make sure I read your post correctly.

Are you calling Picador a troll for saying heterosexual Christians sin more than homosexuals?

Are you also saying the act of homosexual love-making is not a sin?

Do you think Jesus cries because of gays, or when people say stupid, biggoted things in His name about gays?

/the Kingdom of God is at Hand, i.e., Be cool to each other. THATS IT.

Clavis:

I don't expect I can change your mind. You have cast off reason and sense in favor of faith and mysticism. But if I can help people who aren't fundamentalist zombies yet to see that your ideas and beliefs make no sense and exist only to serve your willful ignorance and prejudice, then maybe we can marginalize you and your kind until you are a laughable little cult, like the Amish or Quakers.

My reason and sense are sound enough... that I evince faith in the Bible and my understanding of Jehovah's Plan for Mankind is only considered a flaw by those who are deaf themselves and don't understand what they are seeing when they witness a group of people listening to music.

The music is there, whether you can hear it or not.

"Fundamentalist zombie" indeed.

Do not take too much glee in your hopes of "marginalizing" those who you yourself decry as bigoted.

And it still holds up, I mean... they're reproductive organs. So it logically follows that we are probably supposed to reproduce. To accomplish this, well, you can figure out the rest.

Except that you're assuming "purpose" without demonstrating it.

Every now and then I think about how great it would to be a gay guy. I mean sure, you're persecuted and you don't have the same civil rights, but at least you're attracted to people with approximately the same level of sex drive.

I dunno, always found locker rooms to be filthy disgusting cesspools of rancid 3-day old BO - Seinfelds BO from hell.
Female gene must be in remission.
I thought we all started out as female anyway?

Jeez, people. The thread was over earlier when El_Camino_SS pointed out that everyone who claims homosexuality is a choice is a bigot. I take the "polite convention" approach. I mean, never mind that it makes the most sense to me that people don't choose their sexual orientation. The simplest way to know whether or not its a choice is to just ask someone!

Seriously. For sake of argument, let's say you walk up to someone and ask "Why do you like chocolate ice cream better than strawberry?" Assuming the response isn't "Who the hell are you?" and is more like "I guess I always have. Must have been born that way." What are you going to say? Are you going to say "Wrong! You arbitrarily chose to think that chocoloate ice cream tastes better!" Maybe you'd even add a "Bwahahahahaha!!" in there.

Of course you wouldn't do that. We take it for granted that your taste in food can be biological. It could also be learned (like if you had a bad experience with food poisoning or something). The key is that if a person claims the preference is biological rather than learned--get this--we believe him for some reason. Fancy that!

barjockey

You can't understand how people can be attracted to men, and yet some people are. I don't understand how the hell people can like the taste of sweet potatoes, yet some people do. Mustard nauseates my mom, but I love it. My girlfriend is sickened by pretzels for some reason, but I eat them all the time (that's right, technicolor-misfit, my girlfriend will never ask you or anyone else for pretzels, period).

Furthermore, I don't understand what makes some guys prefer homo-butt-sex... but does it really matter? People are different, you accept that. Why is it so hard to accept that people can be different with respect to sexual orientation?

Oh, and before you claim that you can accept it and it isn't so hard, you have made it plain for anyone to see where your biases lie:

"Homosexual men had their primary response also in the olfactory area, with a very small reaction in the hypothalamus, while heterosexual men responded strongly in the reproductive region of the brain."

This was what I was referring to that I contend was perhaps downplayed.

There is no reason to believe that that isn't perfectly descriptive of the actual results. The fact that you believe otherwise only suggests you are biased toward a specific set of desired results anyway. As if I needed more proof:

I would be willing to bet that virgin (perceived) gay men would respond more noticeably to the female scent, and most noteworthy, would respond very minimally to the male scent.

I'm just saying, I would like to see such a study.

What you're really saying is that you would like to see some study that confirms your belief that homosexual men are physiologically attracted to women rather than men. I mean, you hypothesize that your altered survey would have results that are directly opposed to this one, and why? Because you postulate that these results are entirely Pavlovian... and even that only gets you halfway there (it brings you back to neutral). Regardless, the point is that you've already made up your mind. Even if your version of the study ended up with similar results, you still would retain the same belief set.

foxboxchic:

technicolor-misfit

As for the girl in the bar, she was annoying me well before that. Which is why I was snippy with her. She was a typical "I watch Sex & the City all the time and I wanna be just like them." I like my girls intelligent, able to get attention because of a good personality... not just because they can jump on some lame-ass Girls Gone Wild attention-whoring bandwagon. You know? Big accomplishment, woohoo, you made out with someone... How novel.

And flirty is great, but only when there's genuine interest... not when it's just because some girl has a need to constantly be in the spotlight or convince herself that every guy she meets wants her. I just don't have any desire to play into that game.

Could you please move to Houston? Please?
I have to laugh at the girls who do that, and I can't imagine if one of my friends tried that on me or vice versa. It would be WTF? I usually go to the bars with my sister and she had to stop me from smacking some moron who asked us for that in exchange for a drink. First of we're sisters, second, I'm not into girls, and last but definately not least, I have my own damn money and can get my own drink, thank you very much.

Heh, reminds me of two sisters at a family christmas party I went to a few years back. I forget if they'd had a few glasses of wine or not but for some odd reason they decided to kiss each other while having some pictures taken, with the line "the guys like this stuff". Talk about a weird, totally unappealing image, that made everyone rather uncomfortable. Maybe their boyfriends liked it but I doubt it.


I rather enjoy two gals kissing in many circumstances and always argue that many women like two guys doing it, but women are more "tolerated" for kissing/acting lesbo for attention than two guys. I think either way its a natural fantasy of people, either of two gals and a guy and vice versa.

Anyway, well said technicolor. I can't stand the attention whores these days, whether its faux-lesbianism or just a sense of "princess entitlement".

LoveInAction
My reason and sense are sound enough... that I evince faith in the Bible and my understanding of Jehovah's Plan for Mankind is only considered a flaw by those who are deaf themselves and don't understand what they are seeing when they witness a group of people listening to music.

Yes, you seem crazy to people who aren't crazy in the same way you are. That's correct.

However, don't flatter yourself by comparing belief in nonsensical, internally contradictory ideas to music. Music can be explained, demonstrated, analyzed. Your ideas are not only irrational and undemonstrable, they are hateful and primitive. You start with a premise -- that everything God does, he does for a good reason and because he's a good God -- and then warp reality and history (true and false) to fit your premise.

That's not music. That's self-serving self-delusion. Which puts you into the same category as maniacs like Jerry Falwell. What wonderful company you keep! Congratulations!

It's a shame that you've gotten yourself into this lunatic feedback loop, where doubt is dangerous, and where you get to heaven by being credulous and blindly faithful of ideas that cannot bear the light of rational scrutiny.

If Fark existed 200 years ago, you'd be pointing out how Scripture justifies and sanctifies the institution of slavery. I'd feel sorry for you if people like you weren't such a pain in my ass.

//Jehovah's Plan for Mankind

Yes, we know. He's making a list, checking it twice. Only gonna rapture up who's naughty and nice.
Or is that the other guy?
I get them confused?

Steve French: thought we all started out as female anyway?



Yes I believe we do. Right in God's image. Har Har.

niethan: Oh my, it says Jesus on her cap

" 'cuz he's hung like THIS! "

I evince faith in the Bible and my understanding of Jehovah's Plan for Mankind

/hahaha

Jehovah's Plan for Mankind(tm)....



.... involved battlebots.

Seriously, though, God created the universe so that people like you could worry about where someone else puts their genitals. Enjoy picking your navel lint.

TheJollyMunchkin

Say a boy was born with the homosexual gene expressed. However, say he was raised in a completly straight household, somewhere where all this talk of homosexuality (in the news and stuff)couldnt reach him. Say he was raised to date girls, eventually found one he fell in love with and married her. Say they were living a happy life now, and the guy still has no clue that he has this "gay gene."

Is he a homosexual?

Yes and no. He's culturally hetero, but biologically homo... if that helps. We do have different identities after all. I bet he'd feel like something was missing, though. Imagine your wife was frigid. That would be sort of how this guy's relationship would work out. Now imagine that it turns out your wife isn't really frigid. She's just not attracted to you physically (or to any other man), but she is attracted to women.

I think it's easy enough to see that this is not going to be nearly as fulfilling for the guy as if he were true to himself.

Clavis:

It's a shame that you've gotten yourself into this lunatic feedback loop, where doubt is dangerous, and where you get to heaven by being credulous and blindly faithful of ideas that cannot bear the light of rational scrutiny.

When did I ever say anything of the sort? When did I speak of "getting to heaven"? When did God demand blind faith, and where did I quote it?

Your ideas are not only irrational and undemonstrable, they are hateful and primitive. You start with a premise -- that everything God does, he does for a good reason and because he's a good God -- and then warp reality and history (true and false) to fit your premise.

You are the one speaking in hateful and primitive terms. I have not warped reality or history, and the premise is not mine.

Your problem is you once saw someone wearing a red scarf and they said something you didn't agree with... and now, anyone who makes a sound that remotely resembles what you heard then, and who also happens to be wearing red, is automatically the equivalent.

Falwell indeed! What truck do I have with such a one? I abhor his speech as much as anyone. And yet you, in your blind prejudice, group anyone with faith in his camp.

I, like others before me, admit that many articles of faith are, as you say, undemonstrable at this time... say even 'irrational' if you will.

Then show me where mankind's 'reason' alone, and worship thereof, has gotten him? Just as much, if not more pain, than any religion. Secular humanism and the various "isms" of the 19th and 20th century have not seemed to help mankind rule himself to any greater degree.

And that's pretty much the point of this trial, in answer to the charge of Satan and Man against God... enough time has been granted to prove that God was not the liar... indeed, Satan and his "you will be like God" are proving irrefutably that he and Man were wrong, and God was right. The trial is almost over, hopefully, and the Judgment can begin, wherein Man will be reschooled into atonement with his creator, and the original intention of Jehovah will be made manifest and fulfilled.

I look forward to that day... you can worship Man's reason if you wish, but like other gods, that one is proving fallible.

niethan: "That does absolutely nothing for me"



All the more for me.

i do believe that in gay men there is a gene they have had since birth that causes them to crave manmeat. this is of course just my opinion.

Steve French:

Yes, we know. He's making a list, checking it twice. Only gonna rapture up who's naughty and nice

You're speaking of The Elect when you mention rapture? That's a small number of those who have been able to overcome in this portion of Man's history, where the devil abounds... hence, they earned the right to be governors and God's aides in the New World, and help bring the 'great multitude' back to the ways intended for Adam.

I'd say that's a fair system... anyone who can overcome in this life would certainly be able to make it through the Judgment and beyond, where this is no Satan to upend God's Will and Man's destiny.

LoveInAction:

The trial is almost over, hopefully, and the Judgment can begin, wherein Man will be reschooled into atonement with his creator, and the original intention of Jehovah will be made manifest and fulfilled.

I get the impression that you are a Jehovah's Witness.
If so, may I ask is it true that those of such a faith believe that only a specific number of people are going to heaven?
Curious, heard that somewhere.

You know, when it comes to women kissing each other, I think there's a big difference between women doing it in a social setting to get a reaction from people, and two women who are turned on by each other. You can often see it in their body language. I get uncomfortable watching the ads for those "Girls Gone Batsh*t" videos, because most of the women *look* uncomfortable in them.

On the other hand, when women are turned on and enjoying themselves -- and they're including you in the pile -- I think I like it because, well, because they're horny (which turns my sex-instinct on) and there aren't any other men around (which would activate my male-competition instinct). That's my half-baked theory, anyway.

Clavis, you're an impertinent jackanapse. If, as you believe, I am not of sound mind, there's no reason for you to address me.

smeegle:

I get the impression that you are a Jehovah's Witness.
If so, may I ask is it true that those of such a faith believe that only a specific number of people are going to heaven?


I've studied with them but do not belong to the organization. If you're worried about the 144,000 who overcome in this world, see my previous post about the Elect, that class of individuals who become spiritual governors.

This whole "getting to heaven" business is what has many of you confused... there's going to be a New Earth, upon which the great multitude is going to live, as was intended when God created Adam.

If some sort of spiritual/angelic existence was the ultimate goal for mankind, why would God create Adam, and say he was perfect? Why would we need a "new earth"?

Dimensio

How so?

/may I ask is it true that those of such a faith believe that only a specific number of people are going to heaven?'

I don't know, but hell is gonna be packed!
Think I'll try to get in early before all the good seats are gone.

Clavis, you're an impertinent jackanapse. If, as you believe, I am not of sound mind, there's no reason for you to address me.

LoveInAction: An elegant parry and counter-thrust... touche!

Hey you seemed to think barjockey's posting his stereotype image directed at me was okay. Why the double standar?

The Bible never mentions rapture, to get rapture out of it is a stretch so long even Calvin, the master of stretching Biblical verses, couldn't make it. Rapture talk only dates back to the 1800's, mid century-ish. In the Bible the devil would be lucky to get someone to get a parking ticket. But thanks to borrowing from Dante and Milton, the devil has gotten all sorts of interesting, but it's not Biblical. Let me say that again, it's borrowing from Dante and Milton, that some people got to their idea of the devil.

Great irony is the Bible makes a pretty easy to achieve baseline for being saved. But as time has gone by people have oddly kept trying to be more and more selective. Apparently the ease of the Bible isn't agreeable to everyone.

Oh and using the Bible to argue against homosexuality is a bad idea, if just because if there's someone who knows old Greek and/or Hebrew, you're arguing against someone that can read the texts in the original. And that >>>> than reading translation and interjecting various theologies.

Clavis:

If Fark existed 200 years ago, you'd be pointing out how Scripture justifies and sanctifies the institution of slavery. I'd feel sorry for you if people like you weren't such a pain in my ass.

I thought you abhored that which was irrational and undemonstrable? Hypocrite!

Save your sympathy for those who truly are in need of it.

That my faith chafes you so speaks more of the flaw in your character than that in my reason.

smeegle:

Hey you seemed to think barjockey's posting his stereotype image directed at me was okay. Why the double standar?

Maybe because you started in with him? No double-standard, just a funnier image.

LoveInAction:

If some sort of spiritual/angelic existence was the ultimate goal for mankind, why would God create Adam, and say he was perfect? Why would we need a "new earth"?

I dunno,I really don't believe the literal sense of the bible.
So there ya go. If it's your thing that's cool. I just don't think it should be the law of the land and getting into government.

cargrrl82:

Oh and using the Bible to argue against homosexuality is a bad idea, if just because if there's someone who knows old Greek and/or Hebrew,

Well, whether one reads in Hebrew or not, the story of Sodom is fairly explicit. As are several verses of the New Testament which are unmistakeable in their message.

But the point here isn't to "argue" anybody out of their hardwiring during this period of Man's history...

The point is, some can overcome in this world, and earn the status of Elect... some will overcome in the Judgment and achieve everlasting life as it was meant for Adam.

Some will steadfastly refuse to trust in any but their own powers and reason and pride, even during the tutelage of the Elect during the Judgment...

And like Satan, they will be eradicated.

LoveInAction: Maybe because you started in with him? No double-standard, just a funnier image.

I didn't "start" in with him I was reacting to his rudeness.

LoveInAction:

Well, whether one reads in Hebrew or not, the story of Sodom is fairly explicit. As are several verses of the New Testament which are unmistakeable in their message.



It's is a matter of interpretation of something translated and retranslated, written and re-written then selectively hand picked by Constantine.

LoveInAction

Jews have and have had for well over two millenia a different take on Sodom and Gemmorah than Christians do. And seeing as they were around first, knew and know the language, their take trumps the Christian take. Which started off as just a general sexual morality interpretation, a couple centuries after the time of Jesus. It didn't get turning into a statement against homosexuality until very recent times.

Also the says nothing about any elect or any such, it's up to the invdividual.

LoveInAction: Well, whether one reads in Hebrew or not, the story of Sodom is fairly explicit.

Yes, it is. Check out Ezekiel 16. But you won't find homosexuality listed there.

As are several verses of the New Testament which are unmistakeable in their message.

Romans perhaps, but not really. There it is tied to pagan practices (as in Leviticus), but the point is made moot when Paul states in the next chapter that things like this are not how men will be judged anyhow.

Dimensio
Except that you're assuming "purpose" without demonstrating it.

Could you please explain? Im not sure I understand what you mean by that.

middleoftheday:

Incidentally, do any Farkettes get a lil' warm watching guys make out?

HELL, YEAH! If they're cute. Fat, middle-aged slobs--no. Twenty-somethings who work out and shower, tonguing it like there's no tomorrow--yes! God, yes! I just wanna go in and see about converting them, you know?

LoveInAction: even during the tutelage of the Elect during the Judgment...

tutelage of the elect?

So your saying there will be classes held for sinners and if you get an "F", your outta there?

So, Jesus mostly loves straight people, especially white ones with money and power - hence, when the end of the world comes, most of the United States will be going to the happy place up in heaven? Whereas the rest of the world, those filthy unwashed heathens who worship false idols and wrong evil gods will be going down to the bad place like a turd down the toilet.

Whew, that's a relief. I was worried about that...

LoveInAction:

The point is, some can overcome in this world, and earn the status of Elect... some will overcome in the Judgment and achieve everlasting life as it was meant for Adam.

What about Eve? You forgot to include her, and then there's Lilith.

TheJollyMunchkin

Say a boy was born with the homosexual gene expressed.

Okay...

However, say he was raised in a completly straight household, somewhere where all this talk of homosexuality (in the news and stuff)couldnt reach him.

Still with you. I believe this has happened plenty of times, especially in the south and during the 1950's.

Say he was raised to date girls, eventually found one he fell in love with and married her.

And here is the fallacy. He might have great female friends, but to fall in love, you need physical attraction, and since he woulnd't be attracted to her, he coulnd't truly fall in love. Really, all he's doing is conforming to the norm...

Say they were living a happy life now, and the guy still has no clue that he has this "gay gene."

No clue? Oh, I'm sure he'll have plenty of clues. Happy life? On the surface, maybe...

LoveInAction

And like Satan, they will be eradicated.

Meh, I'll take my chances....

/not worried.

kevin5lynn: Happy life? On the surface, maybe.

What is that a movie? It looks interesting. Do tell?