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(Sky.com)   UK Election Day discussion thread   (sky.com) divider line 597
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2335 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2005 at 12:59 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-05-05 03:51:52 PM  
voting is fun.. anyone but the tories or the BNP is fine by me.. i like the lib dems, theyre like the green party with balls, balls growing with each passing year.. less overseas regime-changing and more recycle bins, i like the sound of that
 
2005-05-05 03:56:10 PM  
oh god hyggelig, you talk some trash:

"Perhaps the most striking example of his foresight is that Blair was raising the need for action over Afghanistan with Bush as early as February 2001, seven months before America was forced to turn its attention to that country"

the afghani taleban government was recognised by just three countries worldwide, despite having been in power for half a decade. given this (and the reasons for it), i would've thought that in any rational person's mind calling for action against the taleban, qualified as a "most striking example of his foresight".
 
2005-05-05 03:57:16 PM  
Why is everyone so anti-tory, Maggie saved our country. And god love the tories they are the only party that cares about good old 'Norn-Iron'.
 
2005-05-05 03:57:36 PM  
How many more posts till it gets the infinity symbol?
 
2005-05-05 04:00:10 PM  
Claivis:They'll know by tomorrow morning.

Just got back from voting LibDem. Would have voted English Independence party if they had a rep here, but no such luck.
 
2005-05-05 04:00:20 PM  
I didn't say that, 21-7-b.

Foreign Policy magazine did.
 
2005-05-05 04:00:55 PM  
oops. could i also have a side-order of "hardly" to go with my "qualified"

the point still stands hyggelig, and i'm sure that you are aware of it: this is transparent and juvenile rhetoric on your part
 
2005-05-05 04:02:35 PM  
Since B'liar' was so adamant that it was moral to go into Afghanistan and Iraq why is nothing done about Zimbabwe. We wouldn't have to even send many troops, just use the surrounding nations armies and offer to pay the Zimbabwean police and army in Sterling and they would carry out the coup for us, put the opposition in power, job done. The whole region would be happy. It would also show America that global politics can be done in a sensitive way rather than their sledge-hammer approach.
 
2005-05-05 04:03:55 PM  
What point? All I said was that Tony Blair is not Bush's lapdog, rather he helped influence Bush's foreign policy and you offer ... I don't even know what the hell you are trying to prove.
 
2005-05-05 04:07:40 PM  
Lord_Byrne: Why is everyone so anti-tory, Maggie saved our country


And stole our milk.
 
2005-05-05 04:09:32 PM  
hyggelig

you're offering up a neoconservative think tank's bs rhetoric about blair as being worthwhile of consideration, despite the fact that i showed very clearly that it is just bullshiat
 
2005-05-05 04:11:08 PM  
True she cancelled school milk, but she allowed you to buy your council house at discounted rate in return. And thanks to her, it was good British milk you weren't getting, not soviet milk.
 
2005-05-05 04:15:10 PM  
Lord_Byrne:

True she cancelled school milk, but she allowed you to buy your council house at discounted rate in return. And thanks to her, it was good British milk you weren't getting, not soviet milk.


I know people that still owe poll tax. I wouldn't try telling them to thank Thatcher for anything in hurry...
 
2005-05-05 04:15:20 PM  
Ok 21-7-b, show me another prominent politicians call for military action in Afghanistan rather than calling for worthless trade sanctions or refusing to recognize their government.
 
2005-05-05 04:16:22 PM  
Lord_Byrne: Why is everyone so anti-tory

[image from greenlibdems.org.uk too old to be available]
 
2005-05-05 04:16:34 PM  
If B'liar' is such a wonderful visionary, how come he is all up for the war in terror, invading unarmed Iraq and tenously linked Afghanistan, yet allows the IRA to sit in government? The man is nothing but a popularist!
 
2005-05-05 04:17:02 PM  
2005-05-05 03:46:22 PM 21-7-b

you keep your sleazeballs and your alcoholics. i'll keep my voting card in my pocket

You should still go and vote, just write something along the lines of "You're all a bunch of corrupt wankers" on the ballot paper, don't forget that spoiled papers are inspected by each candidate...
 
2005-05-05 04:18:28 PM  
Hyggelig:

Ok 21-7-b, show me another prominent politicians call for military action in Afghanistan rather than calling for worthless trade sanctions or refusing to recognize their government.


Erm, to be fair, I have never seen anything stating that Blair was the first to call for military action in Afghanistan. Do you have some information you aren't sharing?
 
2005-05-05 04:19:24 PM  
Just been to vote - packed (a dangerous word to use near ballot, but never mind). It looks like all those predictions of a low turnout were wrong, at least in my seat. From eyeballing the crossed-off names on the list it must have been at least 70% with a huge queue still there and two hours to go.

Prediction time: Labour by 60 to 90 seats.

With a higher than expected turnout things could be interesting - the election landscape is intriguing as there are lot of Conservatives in "safe" seats with majorities of about 10%-15%, mainly over the Lib-Dems. Now in a lot of these seats there are UKIP (Independence Party) candidates standing, and these voters come mainly from Tories. The other drain on the Conservative vote is to the Lib-Dems. (It is pretty unlikely that any Tories will move to Labour). Further across the spectrum the Lib-Dems will pickup votes from disaffected Labour supportes (4%, including me) and are unlikely to lose any.

The net result of all this is that (estaimating wildly) Lib-Dems will gain (say) 8% - 4% each from Lab and Tory - and Tory will lose 4% to the UKIP. Thus all those seats with the 12% Tory majority suddenly look pretty tight. Could be Carnage for the Conservatives.

A man can dream....
 
2005-05-05 04:19:40 PM  
NonComposMentis:

You should still go and vote, just write something along the lines of "You're all a bunch of corrupt wankers" on the ballot paper, don't forget that spoiled papers are inspected by each candidate...



That is true. Get thee to a polling station 21-7-b!
 
2005-05-05 04:21:06 PM  
Come on. Poll tax just became Council tax, it had to happen local government had to become accountable and self financing.

And with regards the image the abobe.

He's so adorable looking. He's just like the eccentric old uncle you only see at Christmas.
 
2005-05-05 04:23:00 PM  
Lord_Byrne:

True she cancelled school milk, but she allowed you to buy your council house at discounted rate in return

As I was seven at the time and have never lived in a council house it didnt really bother me. Plus she introduced the 'Community charge' a.k.a. the Poll Tax which caused riots in several british cities, started privatisation, set employee's rights back a couple of decades and cut spending on services such as education, which has led to the current crisis in university funding. I don't call that much of a saving.
 
2005-05-05 04:23:38 PM  
Don't spoil your vote, SOIL it. It sends a bigger message.
 
2005-05-05 04:27:11 PM  
Lord_Byrne: Why is everyone so anti-tory, Maggie saved our country.

Growing up working class in the 1980s I saw some of my friends' dads lose their jobs and their houses. That kind of put me off the Tories.

We had a playground rhyme (with actions!) about Thatcher and everything!
 
2005-05-05 04:30:53 PM  
Actually the crisis in university funding in New Labour's fault not the conservatives. The Tories put caps on university numbers preventing the mass pointless growth in tertiary education we now have. It was Tony and his 50% at university plan that has created the problem. Privatisation was a good thing in many cases. Most of the state run industries had seen major capital investments since the fifties and desperately need a new injection of cash and the union's were causing more stikes in Britian than ever before crippling industry. She saved us, despite what most of the working class seem to think. Mining was never more than 5% of the work force and had a low return in revenue but too big a hold on production, it had to be sorted out. Cuts in services she may have done, but even still the standard of service was generally better than you see today.
 
2005-05-05 04:31:46 PM  
Hyggelig

i would imagine that at various times the majority of world leaders had made some rhetorical gesture towards the possibility of war in afghanistan, but you haven't actually offered up any evidence of this supposed suggestion from blair. you could try searching for the following quote attributed to one tony blair in july 2002 though

"To be truthful about it, there was no way we could have got the public consent to have suddenly launched a campaign on Afghanistan but for what happened on September 11"
 
2005-05-05 04:33:57 PM  
Also, for which I will always support the Tories, Maggie had the IRA on the run until gutless Major decided diplomacy was a better solution. Anyway, the tories are the only party that will have Sinn Fein removed from government. Long live the union.
 
2005-05-05 04:34:26 PM  
2005-05-05 04:21:06 PM Lord_Byrne

Come on. Poll tax just became Council tax, it had to happen local government had to become accountable and self financing.

Erm - IIRC most local council expediture comes from central Government grants: only 20% or so comes from council tax.

Reforming Local Government finance has been a political graveyard for about a century - the poll tax killed Thatcher - and probably will be for a century more. So it ain't going to happen.
 
2005-05-05 04:39:58 PM  
Privatisation was a good thing in many cases

what cases? I don't really see how any of the privitisations had a positive result for the people of Britain.
 
2005-05-05 04:43:47 PM  
50% comes from central 25% form council tax and 25% from business rates roughly, but it wasn't unreasonable for the government to expect the Tory government of the time to try and stop financing the mostly Labour city council and try and put the onus on them for their own problems.
 
2005-05-05 04:46:51 PM  

I took that silly little test. Thought it'd be interesting to see what my politics would be like if I lived in the UK:

[image from whoshouldyouvotefor.com too old to be available]
Who should I vote for? v2Your expected outcome:Labour


Your actual outcome:

[image from whoshouldyouvotefor.com too old to be available]Labour 7[image from whoshouldyouvotefor.com too old to be available]Conservative 6[image from whoshouldyouvotefor.com too old to be available]Liberal Democrat 31[image from whoshouldyouvotefor.com too old to be available]UKIP 7[image from whoshouldyouvotefor.com too old to be available]Green 39

You should vote: Green

The Green Party, which is of course strong on environmental issues, takes a strong position on welfare issues, but was firmly against the war in Iraq. Other key concerns are cannabis, where the party takes a liberal line, and foxhunting, which unsurprisingly the Greens are firmly against. The Greens are also anti-Europe.

Take the test at Who Should You Vote For



OK so......

o_O

I may be a registered Democrat here in the States but man I'd be a GREEN in the UK! I'd say that means one of two things:
1. I'm more liberal than I thought, but maybe I should think about redoing the test to make sure, or..
2. I don't now shiate about British politics.

I suspect it's the latter.

 
dpr
2005-05-05 04:47:54 PM  
Has a flamewar erupted yet?

I'm about to watch the coverage on tv soon.
 
2005-05-05 04:49:55 PM  
Considering you probably can't remember pre-tory times you can't compare. But privatisation was essential in the steel industry, Corus now actually makes a profit, British stell rarely did. British airways is a fine example of it working. British Leland was a disaster and had to go. Rolls Royce was better off sold, infact most of the car industries needed to go. BAe is a great success. British Gas and Power have been successful. Privitisation has worked!
 
2005-05-05 04:51:52 PM  
The coverage is on both BBC1 and 2? WTF?
 
2005-05-05 04:53:17 PM  
We have reached infinity anyway and coverage starts on the beeb at five to nine.
 
2005-05-05 04:54:30 PM  
buddymifriend: The coverage is on both BBC1 and 2? WTF?


In my region, I get the Scottish perspective on BBC1, and the National perspective on 2.
 
2005-05-05 04:56:17 PM  
Bonus! Fark the elections, Peter Kay is on in 5minutes!
 
2005-05-05 04:57:00 PM  
BBC 1 is regional, BBC 2 is national.
 
2005-05-05 04:59:02 PM  
Fancy set, the BBC is throwing its cash around!
 
2005-05-05 05:01:18 PM  
Exit polls suggest Labour victory but with a smaller majority only 66 seats.
 
2005-05-05 05:06:51 PM  
Alexis:
They have elections over there? I thought they had a queen. Huh...

You know, the more you post, the more I like you.
 
2005-05-05 05:19:23 PM  
Lord_Byrne

But privatisation was essential in the steel industry, Corus now actually makes a profit, British stell rarely did.

Alright, thats one, it's making a profit but what about all the people that lost their livelihood, what was the social cost?

British airways is a fine example of it working.

British Airways is a fine company and they provide an excellent service, I always fly BA if I can & I don't mind paying the extra it costs to do so. That said they weren't exactly on the rocks before privatisation, they are a heavily unionised organisation, a hang over from nationalised days so the rights of their staff are protected at least.

British Leland was a disaster and had to go. Rolls Royce was better off sold, infact most of the car industries needed to go.

RIP British car industry, who owns Rolls Royce and Land Rover now exacty?

BAe is a great success.

cough
international arms dealers, fantastic..

British Gas and Power have been successful.

Oh really, try asking Transco to move your meter two metres to the right and see:
a)How many months it takes for them to do it, and
b)How much it will cost you.
Oh and as for the electricity companies, tough luck if you live in Sussex, Surrey or Kent and you have a subsatation next to your house. Pre-privatisation Seeboard, now EDF (cough, French company) used to employ gardeners to keep the substations looking nice (planting flowers and bushes etc, mowing grass, weeding etc) and not a blot on the landscape. Not any more contractors come round once a year and blitz the area with roundup and they'll replace the walls or fences, when they fall down, eventually, maybe.

Privitisation has worked!

The Railways?
 
2005-05-05 05:29:35 PM  
Jamesspoon, the Democrats, the Greens, and the Communists are all about equally liberal(Greens and Communists being ultra liberal is the Democrats propoghanda to keep you from voting for one of the other liberal parties)

The Greens are more militant about the Environment, The Commies are more militant about the Fiscal end of things, and the Democrats are more militant about making criminals into victims.

And anyone whos followed any of my posts Knows I'm rather Conservative, so I wouldn't be propogating for the Greens.

I'm sure similar things could be said about the Republican party and some of the right leaning 3rd parties...

In one of the tests about which party your views are closest too with like 11 or so U.S. parties(some of the very minor ones included) The Constitution party(a socially right leaning 3rd party) was the best choice for me, and the Libertarians where tied in 2nd with the Republicans, along ways back from Constitution.
 
2005-05-05 05:30:32 PM  
binnster: One of the posters at B3ta did a rather good parody of it earlier:

:-)))
 
2005-05-05 05:33:02 PM  


Okay, I'll do this one:-

Electricity & Gas - excellent - prices went down, service went up, some companies do both things and give you a discount. Competition has been good for everyone.

Phones - excellent - similar reasons to Leccy and Gas

Water - bad - cutoffs, running out, infrastructure problems because economically nobody wants to spend money on sorting out the system.

Trains - disaster - what trains?
 
2005-05-05 05:33:20 PM  
i thought you guys already knew who your next king was -
 
2005-05-05 05:34:09 PM  
Sorry - my open tag must have been buggered. I was resonding to

2005-05-05 04:39:58 PM buddymifriend

Privatisation was a good thing in many cases

what cases? I don't really see how any of the privitisations had a positive result for the people of Britain.
 
2005-05-05 05:35:36 PM  
Ha! Snow's battleboard! It I'd be great if they did each other in like the chess pieces in Star Wars, they're probaly saving that for next year.
 
2005-05-05 05:39:22 PM  

Labour -25
Conservative 10
Liberal Democrat 11
UKIP 11
Green 31

I got Green too, I think because of my anti-Europe views. But I STRONGLY SUPPORT fox hunting!!! And I'm lukewarm on environmental issues. Go figure.

 
2005-05-05 05:44:29 PM  
British car industry is dead because it was inefficient and bably run. A t least while it was Rover and Ranger rover the taxpayer wasn't paying for it's losses as much as it is now, since we still have to pay settlements.

In the energy market privatisation has been a success, gas is cheaper and so is electricity, so they've made cuts. Oddly you use Transco as your reasoning, the only part of market that wasn't open to competition, the company would have been as bad under state control since CCT was brought in during the ninties and reinforced by New Labour.

BAe is a success, regardless of where it sells.

I forgot to mention BP, one of the more environmentally concious oil copmanies but nevertheless a company that has been very good for us and us internationally since it has the money to invest overseas and develop new fields.

British Telecom has improved vastly through competition and the introduction of competition has been a good thing. Do you honestly think if we still had a state run Cable and wirelss and BT you would be using high speed broad band at a reasonable price?

British Airports Authority has also been a success and has alloed for the development of many regional airports that would have lanquished in the land of cargo transport had it not been for privatisation. Same with the ports.

And as for rail. The railways had always been underfunded, since world war two when an overhaul was needed and all they did was do a patch up job. You can't really blame the private companies running the lines for doing a mediocre job on a dying system. At least some of the companies have invested in decent modern rolling stock, British rail were terrible for buying interim cheap engines and then keeping them running for too long.

Privatisation has worked.
 
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