fire her

MOTTO ON PHARAMACY WINDOW:

You play, you pay.

Tinian

Want to talk about following a rule? How about those who swear to the Hippocratic oath:

It depends on the version of the oath the doctor pledges to. You quote from the classical version, while just as many doctors recite the modern version, and yet others do not swear to it at all, thinking it is an outdated relic.

Go here to learn more about the oath.

What possible "moral" reason could this guy possibly have to oppose amniocentesis? (Stick a needle into the woman, extract amniotic fluid, test for genetic diseases) Besides, the way I hear it, chorionic villus sampling is more popular nowadays.

Not entirely sure, but my wife and I decided not to have one because of a chance it would harm the fetus. Don't know how. Don't know why.

is now the time to switch over to the 13 year old having an abortion thread, or is it pretty much the same people saying the same type of stuff?

gotta keep the threads fresh

Meh. It's your job, biatch. Don't wanna do it, start flipping burgers at Mickey D's.

This pharmacist is a complete asshat. I believe her brain has been slowly decaying, along with her moral beliefs, for the last 1500 years (ever since the Romans bought into and revised Christianity). This woman shouldn't be allowed to be a pharmacist. Plain and simple.

That having been said, from a business perspective she is completely within her rights and is breaking no rule. No problem there. She is being a piss-poor pharmacist and a jerkoff ta boot, but she is allowed to provide crappy service. Heck, we still have Denny's, so I suppose the precedent is already set.

I feel sorry for the victim (the consumer). This could have truely been a life-threatening situation for her. Maybe religious fundamentalism and conservatism shouldn't be mixing. Then again, it is more likely that they are both terrible regressive and repressive ideas that humanity should purge from their own minds (no, not the Stalin kind of purging, you reactionary asshats).

Bill Cosby - "This is incorrect. Pharmacies are state sanctioned distributors of drugs. Not just anybody can sell it."


Nobody is discussing licenses. Hell, you have to be licensed to be a practicing architect - does that mean the govt should be able to force any licensed architect to design your home just because you asked? Even on that note, you have to have both a license to sell food and a health department permit to operate a Kosher delicatessen, does that mean the govt has the right to make Kosher delis sell pork chops as a condition just because you want a pork chop? Furthermore, the conditions of licensure in no manner dictate what products a pharmacist must dispense, just as having a license to practice medicine does not mean the government can force every M.D. and D.O. to practice neurosurgery even though they might be a dermatologist.

You have completely missed the point, although this is not the least surprising. If not just at the local level of this particular store, this is going to be damaging for revenue at this pharmacy, given the media attention paid to this and other similar instances around the country. I would think leftists and socialists would be jumping for joy over the idea of a large, evil corporation getting hit in its bottom line!

But perhaps the left can't think that far ahead. For a leftist, history began yesterday and thinking beyond next week is impossible.

So it is your moral decision to make my girlfriend ball up and cry in the corner, then pass out from pain, and slowly bleed to death internally.......good for you. You Farking ASSSSSSSSHOOOOLES! get off your high horse and think for a freaking minute. Your a Pharmacist, you went to school and learned all about lots of nifty meds and what they are for....you get payed better than $80,000 a years.....quit your biatching and do your job! If i have a problem doing a part of my job....i lose said job.

/rant

boogotshot:

amniocentisis (big word, look it up)

amniocentesis:
A procedure in which a small sample of amniotic fluid is drawn out of the uterus through a needle inserted in the abdomen. The fluid is then analyzed to detect genetic abnormalities in the fetus or to determine the sex of the fetus.

I'm not usually a grammar nazi, but if you're going o tell people to look something up, you should probably spell it correctly.

And the reasons that many OBs won't perform the procedure anymore is because there is an inordinately high risk of injury to the fetus, and many physicians have been sued into the dark ages as a result of the procedure.

This is the same reason that all of the hospitals around here won't allow videotaping of deliveries anymore, now you can only take still photos. They found that many of their malpractice plaintiffs were bringing in hubby's video of the birth and having "experts" tear apart every move that a doctor made in slow motion.

/just sayin'

I.M.

But perhaps the left can't think that far ahead. For a leftist, history began yesterday and thinking beyond next week is impossible.

For Bushco, history will get re-written tomorrow, so they can't ever learn from it, and thinking beyond profits is impossible.

/see, flaming is easy

Lord_Baull:

For Bushco, history will get re-written tomorrow, so they can't ever learn from it, and thinking beyond profits is impossible.

/see, flaming is easy


Especially when you speak the truth Lord_Baull!

I.M.

I always wonder how such smart people can be so dumb. You think they'd try some thinking on their own rather than what they've been told (from their church, parents, etc), but that would be expecting too much I guess. I'm hoping a country with an interesting dictatorship appeal comes about soon so I can move there and they can re-educate these confused individuals (or just kill them).

You have completely missed the point, although this is not the least surprising. If not just at the local level of this particular store, this is going to be damaging for revenue at this pharmacy, given the media attention paid to this and other similar instances around the country. I would think leftists and socialists would be jumping for joy over the idea of a large, evil corporation getting hit in its bottom line!

No. I like to see a healthy business sector. As a liberal, I would hope that the benefits of healthy business are conferred eventually upon the common people, but I am a free-enterprise kinda guy, usually. What bugs me is that this pharmacists moral 'choice' put a patient at risk. That is against everything that the medical professions are supposed to stand for, and this woman shouldn't be licensed because she put her own personal beliefs above the well being and life of a patient. She should be thrown out of the profession. From a business perspective, she is completely within her rights, as I have said, but, from a medical perspective she made a terrible error in judgement. If this was some average floozy from off the street it wouldn't be a huge deal, but the customer in question needed the medication for health reasons.

Sorry if I went over your head, boogotshot, it is easy to forget that conservatives have a purely monsyllabic vocabulary.

Well, I haven't seen any compelling evidence in favor of this pharmacist other than "God says family planning is teh devil" and "There is no contradiction in having morals but working in a place that compromises my morals on a daily basis (unless said pharmacy doesn't sell condoms of course)."
So, I will bid everyone a good night.

So basically...their beleifs are preventing them from selling...well if their GOD gives me a disease or heart trouble, why are they going to prevent me from dying if GOD wanted me to die, They should just do their farking jobs and shutup, i'm glad people like that get fired, they shouldn't have a problem getting fired if they put as much value into their beleifs as they say.

ok, i'm not going to search through all the comments to see if someone already said this, but:

with a face like that, what does she need birth-control pills for?

I'd hit it

/if i was really really really drunk

fritzpizitz

Then she should probably go the permanent route and get her tubes tied.

is this thread still going?

Eh, just wait a few hours, there's usually more than one pharmacist working at each pharmacy, the shift changes and blammmo, she can be safe from the kid disease for another few months!

PS Birth control can be used for many other things rather than preventing unwanted pregnancies, the right dosage can help reduce chronic migranes as well as keeping endometriosis at bay. What if she had one of those... huh? huh?

I'm confused as to how this is confusing. She needs to do her job. It is not her job to make decisions. It is her job to fill a little bottle with legally prescribed medication. Alleviation from that job should result in termination.

Any other approach is illogical.

I'm too lazy to read this pointless argument over something Prolifers and Prochoicers will never agree on.

and anyway, this whole situation can be solved easily, don't go to the Pharmicist that won't dispense the drugs.


/last word motherfarkers! (smiles and doubts that this will actually be the last word)

Let me just say this. I am happily married. My wife and I don't want to have kids (not yet anyways :) ). We use condoms for a main contraceptive but I have had a couple of them break on me from time to time. Because of this, my wife takes an oral contraceptive presribed by our doctor. To me, a pharmacist who refuses to fill our prescription is imposing their way of life on us and thereby denying our freedoms.

However, I can also see how forcing them to fill a precription that they feel is against their morals goes against their freedoms.

Therefore, I suggest the following. If said pharmacist is against dispensing a drug due to moral reasons, then the pharmacy should keep at least one pharmacist on duty who doesn't have a problem with it. From what I have observed, most pharmacies employ two pharmacists at the same time. Problem solved. However, if the pharmacy only has one attendent, then that attendent must direct the person to a CONVENIENT alternative based on the doctor and the persons heathcare plan. For instance, the pharmacist can't tell a person to go to a pharmacy which doesn't support their healthcare. If there is no convenient alternative available, then the pharmacist must dispense the drugs or face federal charges based on patient confidentiality and patient rights.

I feel this pretty much covers all the bases and would make most people happy 99% of the time.

Not that I'm going to say something that hasn't already been said... but the pharmacist lacks the foresight to realize that birth control pills are used to treat a NUMBER of different conditions in women that have absolutely nothing to do with birth control.

My wife (a regular church-going Christian by the way) has been on birth control pills for hormone-regulation since she was a teenager. (Yeah, it resulted in her getting funny looks from pharmacists but no one ever said 'no').

Let me point out, that there are many, many, many REASONABLE Christians running around (even ones that most Farkers would see as being quite fundamentalist) who have absolutely NO problems with having a medicine cabinet full of assorted drugs -- even controversial ones. If God wanted me to have a headdache, he should've smitten the scientists that invented aspirin.

Summary: The pharmacist is an asshat. She has a right to be morally opposed to birth control pills but when she denies others their own rights as she's clearly doing, she needs to look for a new job.

1)I guarantee that all of these pharmacists GOP Right-Wing Stormtroopers.
2) Please remember that the Republican party is the party for
less government.
3) If you believe that, come on down to South Florida, I've got some slighty damp real estate for sale.

The very fact that you need a prescription means that the item in question is regulated by the government, not by the private business (pharmacy).

This fool pharmacist is not saying that she will not stock condoms in a store she owns, for instance; she's effectively saying that, although the pharmacy (which she does not own) stocks the medication, and although the only reason she gets to even be involved is government regulation, she's going to deny access to the item based on moral (read: religious) beliefs.

That is a classic example of religious beliefs interfering with the intended machinery of government. We not only have freedom of religion, we have freedom FROM religion.

To: anyone who says the pharmacist is right:

What would you say if the pharmacist was opposed to giving you whatever drug YOU take, and how is that any different (it isn't).

The pharmacist should lose their job. period, the end. They failed to perform their job. It is a pharmacists job to fill prescriptions. You don't do your job, you are fired.

The pharmacy should have to pay a steep fine to the person they denied - large enough so they will make sure their "pharmacists" stay in church instead of bothering the rest of us.

This country is as much about the "freedome FROM religion" as it is about "freedom OF religion". The freekin' pilgrims came here to escape an official religion and practice their own for cripes sake.

Why the hell do these fundie farktards want their moral objection protected by law?

The whole point of taking a moral stand is that you are putting yourself at risk for a higher principal. It's a hell of a lot easier to stand up for what you believe in if you got the whole damn government on your side. Hell, anybody can do that.

Are the fundies going to cry and bless your martyrdom? Will Catholics find your face in a hobo's piss stain? Will Pope Benedict the 489th make you saint? Is St. Peter be impressed ? Will Jesus give you a pat on the back?

Suck it up, take your stand, go find your ass a new job and just bask in the self righteousness for the rest of your goddamned life.

2005-05-03 07:09:57 PM Action Replay Nick

Anyone?

Next I suppose it will be fisherman refusing to kill fish for moral reasons.

Let me put that another way:

Next thing you know PETA members will be working at McDonalds and refusing to serve hamburgers for moral reasons.

Action Replay Nick: Anyone?

Doesn't look like it. Too bad.

A Midnight Bout of Frenzied Concupiscence:
Good for the pharmacist.
I like freedom, don't you?

You don't like freedom. You like forcing everyone else to do things your way, based on your religious beliefs, and fark 'em if they don't like it.

[rant on]
So if I were a pharmacist, I would refuse to dispense:
* Birth control, because God wants you to be barefoot and pregnant.
* Oxycontin, Vicodin, or any other painkiller, because you should just quit whining and suck it up.
* Zyrtec, Allegra, or any other antihistmine, since it's just a runny nose, just quit whining and suck it up.
* Prozac, Paxil, or any other antidepressant, if you you loved God you'd be happy, just quit whining and suck it up.
* Viagra, Levitra, or any other ED medication, if you really loved your wife, you could get it up.
* AZT, Fuzeon, or any other AIDS medication, because if you have AIDs you're a fag, and God hates you.
* Any antibiotics or cancer drugs, because if you just prayed hard enough, it would all go away.

Yep, I could pretty much sit on my ass all day and refuse to do anything on moral grounds. I am in the wrong business!
[/rant off]

ArcadianRefugee and A Midnight Bout of Frenzied Concupiscence

You guys have won me over. Now I have the right arguments to go to work tomorrow and tell my boss that I refuse to write any more code (I work for a medical claims clearinghouse) since my code will be used to process claims from a women's clinic, and I am morally opposed to healthy women.

If nothing else, this is messed up because it's unprofessional. I support her right to act according to her religious beliefs, I just wish that people would similarly extend their ethics toward their own lives, and not just other peoples'.

She is a pharmacist. Her job is to dispense pills, not to dicatate what your customers do with them. If you don't want to sell birth-control,

A) Work for a pharmacist that explicitly refuses to sell said product (right) or, more likely,

B) Find work that is void of such ethical dilemmas.

A Midnight Bout of Frenzied Concupiscence: This customer wasn't discriminated against because of her religion.

No, the customer was discriminated against because of the pharmacist's religion. However, that's still religious descrimination.

We all do thing we don't agree with sometimes, but hey thats f-ing life deal with it!

QuietSound
Great analagy!!
Everyone knows that BCPs are to pharmacies what hamburgers are to McDonalds.

What about a doctor that refused to do circumcisions. Should he be stopped from doing heart surgery?

JennyB
OK, then give me a hummer, right now. and just deal with it.

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

/pharmacist is soon-to-be-unemployed asshat
//wrote about it a few weeks ago
///back to banked-coal-war

Refusing to violate ones moral standards is a self-evident right and therefore constitutionally protected. If that gets your dander in a puff, get a passport and move.
I bet that got your attention.
BUT, a professional refusing to adhere to ethical standards of their profession is governed by the body that licenses the professional.
A better analogy than a restaurant would be a defense attorney refusing to defend a suspect on moral grounds. They have the right to do that, they cannot be forced to do it, but it's unethical, and they can be disbarred for it.
Customers are entitled to seek damages resulting from a professional's failure to adhere to the ethical standards of their profession.
This isn't a matter of legislation- there's already legislation in place, and a definition in the dictionary: malpractice.
It's a failure in pharmacology to adequately enforce its ethics. The pharmacists in question would think twice about this if they knew that all the time and funds they spent on their education was going to go into the toilet.
Preach in church. Work at work. It seems so simple.

I wonder how some of you would feel if a muslim pharmacist would refuse to sell you some medication because it has pig or alcohol in it.

Tinian

Want to talk about following a rule? How about those who swear to the Hippocratic oath:

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness, I will guard my life and my art.

You have no problem when they break THAT rule. Methinks it's the hypocritic rule you really favor.

An absolutely bizarre reply that does not address anything I said in my post. I'll respond to it anyway:

-I didn't say anything about abortions. What I did say was that your reference to civil disobedience is inaccurate. Since you haven't made any attempt to disagree with me, but instead have raised only non sequiturs, I'm inclined to think you concede that point.
-We are talking about pharmacists, not doctors.
-I was quite surprised to read that the Hippocratic Oath contains a clause swearing not to provide a woman "an abortive remedy." After all, doctors carry out abortions all the time and keep their licenses, and it would be criminal to refuse to provide a woman with an abortion if doing so is necessary for her health. So I did a quick Google search and, lo and behold, the modern Hippocratic Oath does not contain any reference to abortion. I did find the source you quoted, which is from 1950, requires the doctor to be "religious," and seems to have been compeletely superceded by the "modern" version, which was written in 1964. So even if we were talking about doctors and abortions, your point is factually inaccurate.
-Finally, I can't fathom why you think from my post that I don't mind when doctors perform abortions.

Are you sure you didn't confuse my post with someone else's?

Action Replay Nick

No reply to your post yet? How surprising. And familiar.

That biatch should quit her whinin' and get on with her job. If she's such a strict whateverthehellsheis, then she should be either a nun, or at home looking after her babies droppin' out every year or so.
Do the job you're paid to, or start flippin' burgers, whiner.