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(SFGate)   Fraternity suspended after hazing included shooting half-naked student with pellet gun   ( divider line
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9316 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Apr 2005 at 7:02 AM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2005-04-27 11:42:55 AM  
DrZombie and ElBarto79 have reached a stalmate?

Time for one of them to Godwin this tread. Who will it be? I wait with bated breath.
2005-04-27 11:44:09 AM  

Fair enough, you know, if you ever volunteer for a large charity, say the red cross, habitat for humanity or whatever...I hope you just keep it to yourself and don't mention to anyone that you did said charity work because you know, really, it doesn't REALLY count as charity work since you knew when you signed up you would be doing it.
2005-04-27 11:46:22 AM  
Half naked?

Which half? If they mean topless, BFD...

Hit by a pellet gun while not wearing a shirt and whining about it is GAY...regardless what you think of the Frat system.

// Had "greek" friends
// Did "greek" ladies :P
2005-04-27 11:49:32 AM  
I rent a room in a fraternity and mostly keep to myself. I think the best moment of the semester was when two drunk alumni of the fraternity woke me up at 6:30 AM on a Sunday asking if I had any beer, thinking I was a member, and I told them to fark off.
2005-04-27 11:51:36 AM  
to be general, there are a few types of frats.

1) Crazy date rape kill the pledge frat. These guys run around in pink shirts and totally are against what frat is about. They do throw a hell of a party though.

2) The take anyone who wants to join frat. These guys throw parties where 2 people non frat come. No one likes these guys. In many universities they are considered "That frat".

3) The small but tight frat. In my opinion, the best kind. They really are frat in all its meaning (the original meaning). They can be crazy or more relaxed, but everyone in the frat is that and they are together because it is a group of 20 or so good friends. These people usually stay together after frat days end because of the great friendships that were formed.

just a quick list, so all you people that are stereotyping frats can get a sence that all frats are not created equal. They are all different. At OSU we have 30 some frats, and they are all different. Ive been to about 7, and they are all different, different people, different mentality, only a few have been stereotypical "frat".
2005-04-27 11:54:50 AM  
So all the frats on campus yesterday were building forts around their houses. I asked a frat friend of mine to explain to me why. He replied, "When you were in first grade, wouldn't you have thought it would be cool to build a fort around the entire house?" I answered "yes, so anytime I need an explanation of frat behavior, I just ask: 'would I have thought this to be cool in first grade'?" He said, "yup, we have the money, the resources, and the time to do everything we wanted to do in first grade."

So I guess thats it in a nutshell - an explanation for frat behavior in an easy to use container. As a matter of fact, I live right next to a frat house, and this morning they were shooting water balloons down onto cars as they drove by.
2005-04-27 11:59:38 AM  
2005-04-27 11:42:55 AM Timbomb

DrZombie and ElBarto79 have reached a stalmate?

Time for one of them to Godwin this tread. Who will it be? I wait with bated breath.

I'm Hitler.
2005-04-27 12:00:39 PM  
scaltagi_the_pirate: "Beer Slip and Slide" in the back yard didn't much appeal to me in the first grade.
2005-04-27 12:02:44 PM  
i'm with loraksus on this one. this happens just about every day at the frats here. it's always been like this and always will as long as frats r around (and they will be with the money they get). i won't complain b/c the free booze they have at parties is ok i guess. but i still think they r freakishly close to cults.
2005-04-27 12:07:56 PM  
So tired of hearing from dorks and loosers about how bad fraternities are when the only thing they know about them is based on newspaper articles and stories from third parties.

I was in a fraternity. I had a blast. Pledging and hazing is bullshiat and anyone with half a brain knows it. That bozo that said something about going through hard times forms stronger bonds is sadly mislead. Strong bonds are formed by spending quality time with others, on a trip or something where you have to communicate with each other (group projects, team building etc).

When I pledged the brothers would do dumb shiat to us, and we'd play along like we were scared etc. It was all a big joke, and we'd laugh about it when we were alone (it helped that the brothers in our house largely didn't take it too seriously - we could hear them laughing etc when they would make sheep noises when we were blind folded etc).

As a brother, I never hazed anyone because I figured how can I treat you like shiat one day and then be your friend once you go through some ceremony. The guys that were the big hazers were total dickheads and the first to be treated like shiat once a pledge class got brotherized.

Bottom line - fraternities are not for everyone. I enjoyed my time in one and I encourage others to take a look. They are not for everyone.
2005-04-27 12:13:38 PM  

So that would explain our mock civil war when I was a junior. We used to stockpile our resources for the year in our storage closet. Our yearly shipment of paper products was short 12 cases of butt wipe paper, and Perkins sent us an entire pallet worth. Dropped it off right in front of our front door.

We staged an entire weekend worth of battle, with clear lines and clear rules. A toilet paper roll is a great weapon to inflict just enough damage to let somebody know you care. Our war lasted the entire weekend until we all pretty much couldn't lift our arms anymore and the entire house was waist deep almost in toilet paper.

Best weekend ever.

and god dammit, the South will rise again!!!
2005-04-27 12:14:14 PM  
dookster: so calling everybody who disagrees with the organization a dork and loser is very intelligent. Did they teach you that in the frat, or did you remember it from middle school? Any organization that allows this activity to continue must be evaluated - obviously the stern warnings they have recieved mean nothing as people still die and are humiliated in fraterity setting. Questioning its value is not just for the people within the organization, but also in general society as well.
2005-04-27 12:16:56 PM  
I would just like to say that I have absolutely no problem with fraternities when it comes to community service, drunken parties or the friendships that they form together. My problem is the elitist structure the entire Greek system works so tirelessly to maintain, and the almost comical level of effort that is everyone puts into conforming to a particular identity.

In the end, the only way they can respond to those that question their system is to say that since they aren't part of it, they simply wouldn't understand.

Congratulations, you sodomized a goat.... here are some Greek letters for your jacket.
2005-04-27 12:18:49 PM  
2005-04-27 12:31:26 PM  
scal. go away. obviously someone *cough* you *cough* didn't get a bid.

shiat happens. bad things happen in prisons, on atheltic teams, in bus stations, in the mall, in the military, at my local bar, and on the highway where some insane number of people are killed each year. based on you logic, all of these should be shut down immedeately to end the carnage (or the humiliation - "mommy, stop the humilation. never mind the Aids crisis in Africa or the starvation in he Sudan, someone just told me to strip to my boxer shorts"), not just the users or denizens of said locations, but also by general society as well.

the bottom line is that people know what goes on in fraternities yet the CHOOSE to join. I knew damn well I was going to go through some stupid shiat. I'm a man, I have a pair of balls and I can take it. NO one FORCED me to join a fraternity.

look butthole. while I may come off as an uneducated tard boy, I know this topic inside and out (fraternity hazing). I know all the arguments for and against. I am against it so amazingly we agree there. Get off your high horse and go find another windmill. Fraternities do more good than harm (just like the other items I listed above). I'd prefer hazing not exisit but demonizing all fraternity men because of a few bad apples is like condemning the entire US and British military because of the Abu Gharib fiasco.
2005-04-27 12:38:12 PM  
dookster, just because you know the topic doesnt mean you are unbiased. Secondly, you have not responded to my comment, that general society, including myself, are free to evaluate and judge these organizations - not just those involved. In fact, I would say that we are in a better position to judge. As with the militaries, general society has the duty to evaluate and judge the actions of the members - we are reasonable to be angry with Abu Gharib, not just members of the military are allowed to evaluate the situation. You have only strengthened my argument and not answered the core of my argument.
2005-04-27 12:40:26 PM  
It's Sigma Chi, not Sigman Kai.
2005-04-27 12:58:08 PM  
thank you dookster

I heard a story yesterday about a frat that a few years ago had all the pledges go around to a buncha sororities. they then had to finnish a bottle of liquor together and then had to find there big brother, if they didnt find him at that house, they went to the next sororitie. And so on. Well at the end of this, one dude was so drunk he passed out cold sitting at a bar. His head fell forward, and he smacked his teeth on the edge of the bar. He learned the next day that he smashed all his teeth. The dude didnt have much of a problem with it other than getting his teeth fixed. But when he told his parents, they went ape crap and got the frat suspended i think.

the moral of the story is that when you are going to be hazed, you know what is to be expected. You know that when you go sky diving there is a chance that you will die, but you go along with it. If you cant handle the hazing, then you shouldnt say that people who do it are stupid.

//just my 2 cents
///keep the flames comin
////woot for lambda chi alpha
2005-04-27 01:10:50 PM  
I guess I'll chime in as an ex-fraternity President about one year removed from it.

Hazing is stupid and pointless. On my campus, we had an unrecognized fraternity kill a pledge because of hazing. That created a huge storm for all the legit organizations because everyone was hazing. The most difficult part of abolishing hazing is getting everyone to go along with it at first. They still hold on to the "it happened to us, it should happen to them" mentality. However, the consequences for hazing on our campus were likely expulsion, and our group needed to get clean as fast as we could, so I basically got together with anyone who was interested and developed a program that eliminated hazing but still got all the necessary information (songs, oaths, etc) across. The result is surprisingly good - pledging becomes more of an open dialog and you can get your new guys in and actually contributing very quickly, they feel like they're giving something to the group. Considering our circumstances, I feel that it was the right choice given the tremendous pressure we were under to not get caught.
2005-04-27 01:12:42 PM  
terrificirony: I don't know what it's like on other campuses, but my experience 15 years ago up through today (as a member of the chapter's Alumni Corp.), "elitist" seems like a specious accusation.

Pledging numbers have been dropping steadily. Sure some houses would like to paint a veneer of "selectivity", but frankly, when you're fighting to get new members, elitism evaporates. You have to fill the house to keep it running.

As for "group identity", I don't buy that either. Actually I found quite the opposite. Here I was able to live with a bunch of my friends, who represented many academic disciplines, sports, intramurals, clubs, and student associations. I was exposed to alot more diversity of identity and interests than I ever had in the dorms.

Now the University would like you to believe that Greek affiliation narrows your college experience. That's why freshmen can't pledge and live in a Greek house until they are sophomores. Yet the University now offers "special interest" housing in unprecedented amounts. Ecology House. Women's Studies House. The Harlem Rennaisance Center. La Casa Pan Latina. French House. And this is just a few. Can incoming freshman can move right in on day one. Now who's experience do you think is being narrowed? What better way to indoctrinate a student with group identity than getting your claws into them before they even arrive on campus?

The difference is that the University-provided "special interest" identity is more politically correct.
2005-04-27 01:14:43 PM  
terrificirony: And that slut goat was asking for it! ;-)
2005-04-27 01:24:24 PM  

Questioning its value is not just for the people within the organization, but also in general society as well.

Your arguement is based on the principle that fraternities affect society as a whole. dookster was saying that people choose to join, thus baseing this as a society issue is a little off base. You can cry all you want just don't join and you solve all problems. This is a issue for the college, the police (if it is criminal), and the fraternity organization in terms of punishment. Let me restate, if no one joins, no fraternities. If people are dumb enough to join the bad ones they deserve each other. In all, you should punish the individual not the fraternity institution, just like military example.

Your making a generalization, idiot. Making arguments based on general statements is, well, stupid. You can biatch and moan about how bad frats are, but your knowledge is based on what ammounts to spoon fed media reports and second hand knowledge. This gets back to the stereotyping the frat boy and his actions. Unless you have been involved with a frat you really have no basis to judge. Even then you have no way of knowing how it is in all frats all over the country. Sure there are "bad apples", but that is the only side you see.

You don't have an argument to strengthen. In the future try to make specific comments towards the individual topic. No one will disagree that shooting someone with a pellet gun is dumb.

Well... this is Fark.
2005-04-27 01:26:03 PM  
I'm a man, I have a pair of balls and I can take it.

In the ass, from what I hear.

2005-04-27 01:26:13 PM  
....just like the military example..

/Should proof before I submit I know.
2005-04-27 01:41:05 PM  
Fraternities: Pay money to drink beer with A$$holes.
2005-04-27 01:43:05 PM  
Catsaregreen: Nice attitude. Thanks for elevating the conversation.
2005-04-27 02:15:49 PM  
In the ass, from what I hear.

maxpublic , depends, are you hot?
2005-04-27 02:22:32 PM  
1. If you are willing to haze and be hazed, if it's worth it to you, join a frat.
2. If you're not, don't.
3. STFU.
4. This thread lacks funny pictures.
5. International Frat Hazing Of Dorks Rules (c.1386) clearly state that ALL pledges being shot by pellets or BB's must be jaybird-naked.
6. Please Sir, may I have another?
2005-04-27 02:33:56 PM  
There is another way to develop close friendships. I belong to a group which is one-for-all and all-for-one, and this mentality is accomplished by being kind to one another and treating the others with respect. There is no benefit in abusing others and being abused. Being violent does not prove you are a person of worth.
2005-04-27 02:40:41 PM  
Solia + Catsaregreen = SoliaGreen

2005-04-27 02:43:09 PM  
Something like this happened when I was at school at Columbia back in the early 90's, involving the brothers of Phi Gamma Delta (FiJi), everyone's favorite date rapist frat. Crazy thing about FiJi- they seem to universally be the date rapist frat at every school. What's up with that? Usually a frat might be the nerd frat at one school, the knuckle-draggers at another, but FiJi.... always the date rapists.

And don't get me started on the pig roast at RPI's chapter of AEPi. Those of you in the know will realize why this is funny.
2005-04-27 02:50:18 PM  
Add the no longer existent FiJi's at Colgate to the list. They got canned by their own national when I was a freshman in 1988.
2005-04-27 02:54:46 PM  
At the University of Rhode Island there used to be a Phi Gamma Delta chapter, they had one of the nicest houses on campus too. They lost their charter when it was discovered that party guests (read: not the fraternity members) were slipping things into the drinks.

At my fraternity we had a different kind of "pig roast". Lets just say there was a female spit involved. One in front, one in back (making wheel cranking motion with arm) and one in the middle...the pig roast. Such fun days.

Catsaregreen Dude, lighten up. Did you have a bad experience at a fraternity party? Is it easier to just say that we pay to drink beer with assholes? Think about it Tinkerbelle, somebody has to buy the beer no matter where you drink it, and yes, that includes your weekly Magic:The Gathering tournament in your mother's basement.
2005-04-27 03:04:34 PM  
Somebody asked for a funny picture....this one, for Catsaregreen, always makes me laugh

[image from too old to be available]
2005-04-27 03:12:54 PM  
Calm down people. Remember, those that took it up the ass early on will be stuck taking it up the ass for the rest of their lives by execs, spouses, bosses, etc. People can live the farce lifestyle for a short time. It all changes when the financial aid/daddy's money runs out and the real world comes into focus.
2005-04-27 03:42:19 PM  
i was in a frat at cal, and i wish all that happened to use during hazing was getting shot with a soft air gun.

in any case, getting hazed is fun.
2005-04-27 04:35:27 PM  
I'm currently a law student at U of Michigan, and last year I lived across the street from the Sigma Chi frat. I always found it annoying that they would blast music at 7am on football Saturdays (hey guys, aren't you supposed to be sleeping off hangovers at that hour. :)) Then one day the music stopped. I later found out that the fraternity had been shut down because of an interesting hazing ritual: They had forced a student to work out continuously without food (so his muscles would start to breakdown) or water (so the by-products of the muscle breakdown caused kidney failure). That's when I realized that it is all well and good to stop frats from forcing students to drink themselves into comas, but the frats will find other ways to inflict physical harm on pledges.
NOTE: The kid was a junior (isn't that a little late to be pledging) kinesiology major (of all people, he should have known better than to let himself be bullied into doing something that harmful)
2005-04-27 05:15:44 PM  
Kappa Kappa Gamma
It means "Key to the Kingdom of God", I think it's a guarded secret or some crap

-Kappa girls always showed me a good time in college
-was not a frat-boy
2005-04-27 05:30:42 PM  

That type of malady is actually quite common when hazing. All I remember is that a high "CPK" level is bad, very bad.

cpk=some kind of enzyme/protein level in the kidney, any md's?
2005-04-27 06:14:28 PM  
I wasn't in a fraternity, but I have nothing against them.. If it worked for you who am I to say otherwise.

However, as a hiring manager, if a resume comes across my desk and the sad sack that wrote it felt the need to list his frat as if I gave a shiat.. I'm very likely to file it in the round filing cabinet.

Using your little club to try to get an "in" is just sad. Don't have confidence in your own abilities?
2005-04-27 06:32:01 PM  

But what about a guy who was the treasurer of his Fraternity who was in charge of managing a $135K budget?

I will list my fraternity membership on my resume in hopes of an interviewer asking me about it. I am proud of my fraternity and have nothing to hide about it.

Not all fraternities are filled with the khaki wearing, BMW driving, "pop it like its hot" collared jackasses that haze and have no respect for anyone but themselves.
2005-04-27 06:37:51 PM  
Scratch that.

Make that no respect for anyone, including themselves.
2005-04-27 07:04:57 PM  
And trust me, I've heard every single line.."You frat guys are gay, you pay for your friends, you suck each other off...

And as a Beta, I tried not to let this bother me and get me upset, and it usually worked. Especially when I was balls deep in the object of some poor farking geeks object of desire. God bless you, Theta girls.

That's strange. I quit my frat my junior year. It was lame and expensive. There were parties all the time, but we basically were forced to go to them even if someone else had a much cooler party. As for the chicks, sorority chicks were just as easy and boring when I quit the frat as when I was in it. No girl that I know of ever said, "Oh, you aren't in a frat...bwahahaha..."

If you needed a frat to get chicks, that scares me.
2005-04-27 07:26:59 PM  
Cheese n rice people. College is a glorified high school. Right down to the cliques. Grow the fark up and start being productive in society.
2005-04-27 07:36:20 PM  

However, as a hiring manager, if a resume comes across my desk and the sad sack that wrote it felt the need to list his frat as if I gave a shiat.. I'm very likely to file it in the round filing cabinet.

Using your little club to try to get an "in" is just sad. Don't have confidence in your own abilities?


Are you looking at all of the resumes I am? Almost every resume that has come across my desk listed frats. The only ones that haven't have been from kids still in High School looking for summer work.
2005-04-27 07:53:03 PM  
Yes, all the charity events are nice, but the serious problems of date rape, hazing and all sorts of nasty things still go on. Most frats aren't the sterotypical "problem" frats, but the damage that is done by the problem frats is massive. Think about this, most rapes are never reported. If one girl has the courage to come foward after being assaulted by some jerkoff in a Dave Matthews Band T-shrit (Just a joke, I loved "Crash into me")...imagine how many women suffered the same fate? Two? Five? Ten? Twenty?

The sad part is, nothing is ever done until something horrible happens. Charters aren't revoked until someone dies from hazing, overdose/poisoning, or some girl gets rammed after a roofie-and-coke. There has to be some way to prevent this sort of crap from happening in the first place. I applaud the frats who activly try to stop this from happening, but the problem still exists.
2005-04-28 01:59:58 AM  

KKG doesn't stand for Keys to the Kingdom of God. This seems to be a common misconstruction, aided in part because one of Kappa's symbols is the key. But it really doesn't stand for that.
2005-04-28 02:53:09 AM  
BUZZBOY "I'd like to know if it was an actual pellet gun or a toy airsoft gun."

You are correct. it was an Airsoft pellet gun. Shoots plastic pellets that are in no way as dangerous as metal ones unless you get hit in the eye of course. I imagine if it had been a potato pellet gun the media would still have reported it as a "pellet" gun.

there is hardly a consensus on the facts of this case;

Stanford University The Stanford Daily-

A 19-year-old University of California at Berkeley student was shot more than 30 times with a BB gun by three members of the Pi Kappa Phi fraternity in an alleged hazing incident.

The student was a pledge of Pi Kappa Phi and was allegedly picked up by approximately 15 fraternity members. He was taken to the fraternity house where he was stripped to his T-shirt and boxers.

Channel 7 in the bay area

A 19-year-old pledge was treated for welts and bruises after officials say he was shot at least 30-times with an air gun, or possibly a BB gun.

SF chronicle:​L
The group took the victim to a room and stripped him of his clothes -- down to his T-shirt and boxer shorts -- and interrogated him as to where the other pledges were, Rego said. Pledges are those who want to join a fraternity.

"When apparently some of the information wasn't forthcoming enough," three men took turns shooting him in the chest and arms with BB guns, Rego said. In all, the three shot him repeatedly from a distance of 5 feet, leaving him with numerous welts and bruises.

Why are the facts cloudy? Because nobody is pressing charges. The "victim" didn't even report the incident. It only came to the attention of police and the media after a nurse at a hospital notified police. The student went there the following day to be treated for "welts and bruises" which is consistent with an airsoft gun but not a BB or pellet gun. BB's and pellets will break the skin at a distance of 5 feet.

Please don't consider me an apologist for hazing since I don't condone any extreme hazing but you have to have some rituals as a group or you are just a boarding house. airsoft pellet guns will not arise the furor of the nation, how many kids have seen Steve O and Johnny Knoxville get walloped by far worse. The kids in college watched Jacka$$ on MTV when they were in high school, what do you expect them to do?

Life imitates art.

If you went to college in the mid 80's I'm sure you went to more than one Animal House style Toga party or yelled "ROAD TRIP!" and I'm not just going to sit here while you BADMOUTH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!

2005-04-28 02:59:47 AM  
My "free" friends never did that shiat to me.
2005-04-28 10:37:43 AM  
"You may ask yourselves, 'Why am I holding a cinderblock?' You may wonder 'Why is there a rope around this cinderblock?' You may then ask 'Why is the other end of this rope tied to my pecker? And why am I standing on the edge of the roof?' Well, boys, it's all about trust. Did we measure out enough rope for that cinderblock to reach the ground? You'll just have to trust in the brotherhood."

/Totally from memory.
//Probably way off.
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