aerojockey:

Bunch of drunken frat boys ought to all be expelled. They serve no purpose to society and shouldn't be encouraged.

Its really sad when this kind of thing happens and gives the rest of fraternity guys a bad name. That's just wrong no matter what you might think about hazing.

Don't have frats here... but they always look like gaybos.

Should get an obvious tag.

Someone did that in Iceland two weeks ago and they're being charged with attempted murder and the victim has fled the country.

Now THAT is a pussified society.

Once again, there's no reason for fraternities.

I'd like to know if it was an actual pellet gun or a toy airsoft gun. Shooting folks with either item strikes me as a rather stupid hazing ritual, but the former is the only one that would put people in any real danger of injury.

I've never really understood the point of frats and sororities. And why do they put themselves in a position where a school can tell them what to do? Do they rely on school resources for something like budget money?

Oh yay - another frat boy bash thread. Jesus people, can't we all just accept that there are some good fratboys, and there are some idiots, and that the idiots are getting more TV coverage because... well... they're idiots?

So are they on double secret probation now or something?

Galland:

I've never really understood the point of frats and sororities. And why do they put themselves in a position where a school can tell them what to do? Do they rely on school resources for something like budget money?

Where I go to college, the school tightens the ropes occasionally, but they also give us some wiggle room. Especially because we get to deal with them before we deal with any local cops on any incident.

Since my house owns our property, we don't have to jump through quite as many hoops - but all in all, as long as we can keep our national organization feuding with the college, we get to duck low in the middle

Yeah, it's been a while since there was a freaternities doing something stupid link.

I was in a frat in college. Our activities consisted of pooling money to throw lots of keggers. It was fun.

letoofdune: Oh yay - another frat boy bash thread

I second that. The rotten apples get all the attention. The whole point of pledging is to get the individual to think as a group. Made some of my best friends in a frat. We did more community service than most of the rest of the campus. Personally I had more hours of service than the entire engineering fraternity, that sort of stuff gets unnoticed.

Ahh, Lyndie England is back on US soil?

Fraternities and organizations are fine, but if you're willing to submit yourself to that type fo humiliation and abuse in order to join, then you deserve to be shot repeatedly.

"Okay, you guys go back to doing something latently homoerotic..."

sullyman: Why is it that every fraternity hazing incident always has homosexual undertones?

because anything is more embarassing and humiliating if you are nekkid at the time. See Abu Gharaib for further details.

This kind of thing makes me nuts, but if the shootee doesn't press charges, it sorta means he was cool with it. The libertarian in me says go with it.

Coming from Ole Miss, I have to say this is business as usual for Fraternities. And Sororities.

Re: the worthlessness of Fraternities, they do a great deal of philanthropic work. OTOH, it's hard to imagine anyone putting up with them if they didn't.

.

Halfnaked? Pelletguns? What a bunch of weiners.

I'm not surprised that Fark contains a very high percentage of people who are against the Greek fraternal system as a whole, without ever being involved in it or taking the time to see what it is all about.

And trust me, I've heard every single line.."You frat guys are gay, you pay for your friends, you suck each other off...

And as a Beta, I tried not to let this bother me and get me upset, and it usually worked. Especially when I was balls deep in the object of some poor farking geeks object of desire. God bless you, Theta girls.

/did a lot of charity and community work too
//usually wicked hung over doing said work
///very good for networking
////just saying it worked for me, flame away GDI's

GDI=God damned Independents.

"The whole point of pledging is to get the individual to think as a group."

Ya know, that reminds me of when the army was trying to get me to sign up. I told the recruiter I wouldn't make a good soldier, because the first drill sergeant that called my mother a whore and said my girlfriend was slutting around on me would find himself knocked on his ass.

The recruiter gave basically the same excuse you just gave - that it teaches you to think as a group and it builds character.

So I told him that I farked his wife, and his mother was a whore on Dort, and asked him how much character did I just build for him.

Verbal and physical abuse does not encourage most people to learn how to think like a group. All it does is fill them with a desire to humiliate the next person.

JestersTear

about that whole verbal and physical abuse thing.. When we pledged, we certainly got our fair share of both. But you see a funny thing happened, it actually worked. Before pledging we were maybe a collection of about fifteen kids who shared the same interests at most. After you go through such a crappy ordeal (you don't even want to know what we went through) you've got no other choice but to get support both mental and physical from your pledge brothers. We came out of pledging five men short (they quit) but I can tell you now that we were indeed much, much, closer and shared a high level of respect for fellow men, which is a lot more than can be said for most people.

...and what the hell is Dort?

im going thru the frat system right now, and im actually mad that the frat that i found the best friends in doesnt have any hazing. I think hazing brings people together, when people go thru something that is difficult, they band together. This is why many pledge groups become VERY close during hell week and such. It also is a way to weed out the people who arent sure they really wanna be in the frat.

/// flame away GDI's

That's the first I've heard of hazing as a form of male bonding.

I'd imagine playing Soggy Cracker wouldn't make me closer to my fellow man so much as it would make me want to avoid eye contact.

"I'd like to know if it was an actual pellet gun or a toy airsoft gun."

My son teaches at Berkeley and told me about this shortly after it happened. At that time, the "rumor" had them using and old Daisy Red Ryder BB gun.

Oh yeah, this is sooooooo gay.

wesleyzero

Way to go posting stupid urban legends. Whats next? Are you going to tell me that Pop Rocks and soda will kill me?

Are you just mad that you had to walk by all those huge houses with the giant parties raging and unfortunately your Jenga partner bailed out on you?

Genocide

Any fraternity that doesn't pledge and have an actual pledge program...isn't. You're 100% correct. We had Delta Chi at our school and they didn't pledge or anything, it was open enrollment. They got very little respect from any legitimate Greek organization on our campus.

/and no sorority would ever, ever, dare to party at Felta Guy. (not that Delta Chi sucks at every school, just mine)

thepostaftermeisgay: GDI=God damned Independents

Wow, I had forgotten the GDI saying

JestersTear: the same excuse you just gave

I'm not defending these idiots with the pellet guns. They are just stupid and have crossed the line. You bring up an interesting point of the sick cycle of hazing. There are several ways to build group structure other than abuse.

Every organization does this to some extent. Major companies, the miltary, even the church. A shared experience with strangers gives you something to connect you as a whole.

It is not an excuse, just the way of doing what amounts to team building. You don't have to give up your individualism to join a frat, just think of your self as a member of a group with responsibilities to that orgainzation.

/Once again, these guys are idiots.

thepostaftermeisgay: No offense, but if being verbally and physically abused helps you, then you have severe issues. It might make you identify with the poor bastards suffering it with you, but it should make you feel nothing but rage towards your tormentors.

As for Dort, that's the main street the hookers work in my city. I forgot to put "road" at the end of it.

Five students at Frostburg State University were arrested yesterday in a hazing incident. Kids BAC was more than 0.35.

About 10 years ago, a student died from drinking a shiat load of water.

Cumberland Times-News is a registration link, so I won't bother to link it.

thepostaftermeisgay

Ripping on my Jenga addiction? Oh snap!

/believes you ate a cum covered cracker about as much as you believe I actually play Jenga

JestersTear

No offense taken here. Its definitely not for everyone, I'll say that. And yes, you do feel rage towards the tormentors, but you must keep in mind that next semester... you're not a pledge anymore.

wesleyzero

The difference being people, somewhere, actually play Jenga.

"The cookie" and "the elephant walk" among others...are fake.

letoofdune: Especially because we get to deal with them before we deal with any local cops on any incident.

Bullshiat. If you assault someone, or kill someone, your "deal" isn't worth jack shiat, and the cops will still bust your ass. The fact that you think you are protected from the cops is why you'll do something stupid like these kids did - you think you can get away with no real repercussions.

And I'll have no sympathy for you when your dumb-ass story is the one we're reading about.

JestersTear:

So I told him that I farked his wife, and his mother was a whore on Dort, and asked him how much character did I just build for him.


Suuuure you did, tough guy.

Personally I had more hours of service than the entire engineering fraternity, that sort of stuff gets unnoticed.

Because everyone figures it's for one reason: so, did it look good on your resume?

Personally I would have measured my service by how much good it did, not how many hours it was.

OTOH, while I, the top compsci student in my class, sit here trying to figure out where my next mortgage payment is, the know-nothing cheat-on-every-test frat boy compsci student in my class is now a VP of CompUSA. Maybe there is something to this "group dynamic" thing. Still, I wouldn't try to hold a grape between my buttocks so some other guy could eat it, in order to become a VP at CompUSA. I know the corporate world requires some loss of dignity but come on.

"Dude?... Can we bring the brewskis?"

the whole "battle to keep our frat alive" has happened before!

The whole point of pledging is to get the individual to think as a group.

Sounds like communism to me

Looks like a troll to me.

Undertoad: I know the corporate world requires some loss of dignity but come on.

Thank you for doing the old stereotyping. I did the comunity service because it was one of my frats tenents and because I enjoyed it. It never showed up on a resume. I also continue doing what I can now that I am out of school. I state the hours because you can't quantify a "goodness", it is an abstract quantity. The point I was trying to make is that everyone knows some bad fraternity story, no one ever hears the good ones, not a news item I guess.

Everyone pay attention to the fraternity stigma. You judge us with out knowing the whole story.

I am also sorry that the world is hard and life is not fair.

Wow a bunch of know it all internet geeks who don't like frat boys..

Jealous of the girls and good times I see....

Summation:

Blah blah blah, Frats are bullshiat, blah blah blah.

- Or -

Blah blah blah, Frats are good, build character and bonds, blah blah blah.

Personally, I'm in the first camp, only because while having never been in a frat, I've gotten enough dirt from people close to me who were. Two of them were girls, so I got the sorority perspective, which guys, I'm sorry to say, they do you more out of pity/group think mentality/sense of duty than any real interest in you. Or there are at least two sororitys who do.

I knew this girl freshman year, gorgeous girl, from somewhere in eastern Europe. Drop dead gorgeous. I never dated her or got down or anything, we just on friendly terms and would hang out now and again. She was dating a guy who was really into her, he pledged to a frat, and was then strongly discouraged from dating her because she was not in their sister sorority. Eventually he dumped her and started banging some nasty-looking skank from the above mentioned sorority.

On the other hand, I have a friend who's not in a frat, but hangs out with one that his cousin is in at MIT. He loves it. Says it's a great place to be. I'm guessing that it really depends entirely on whether or not you can be led along in a group-think mentality. The connections you make can definitely help you go a long way in some career fields.

I saved the best for last. I didn't see or know the guy involved in this, but I saw it in the paper, and somebody I ran into did know him. This guy was pledging at some frat at Clarkson University (I believe, it's been a while), and was going through the hazing process. Well, they had pretty much pushed this guy as far as he was going to go. Well, they didn't know his parents had pushed him through martial arts classes since he was 6 (somehow they convinced his instructor to push him into "adult" classes earlier than he should have been, but that's neither here nor there), and had like two or three black-belts, or their equivalent in whatever school it was. One of them was Kempo, but I don't remember the others anymore. Well, this guy just want ballistic after being hassled for so long, and they kept him from sleeping, and shiat like that. Broke one of the guys arm, a bunch rushed him to try and take him down, and I guess he just went to town. The details were spotty at best (it's a newspaper article with some anecdotal evidence provided by a second party), but he apparently did a number on them. I don't know what happened, but I remember laughing my ass off when I read it.

Stopped reading after Blah, blah, blah . . .

I was never in a frat in college. I'm not against them, I just didn't need to "fit in" with the clone mentality that bad. To me there's just something wrong with the idea of "if you eat a grape from between my butt cheeks I'll be your friend for 4 years."

O pass the loving cup around
nor pass a brother by
we all drink from the same canteen
in beta theta pi.

i actually sang that with my (now) boss on my job interview. we shared a laugh, told some stories and he gave me my job without even asking me if i knew shiat about marketing. (which i do).

Q314: Pi Kappa Phi raises $20,000 for Push America


I lived in a PiKapp house during a Summer semester many moons ago. Generally speaking, they were good people. A few jackasses of course, but most were friendly.

Anyway, they left me with a positive impression.

/they're not all bad

thepostaftermeisgay:

i actually sang that with my (now) boss on my job interview. we shared a laugh, told some stories and he gave me my job without even asking me if i knew shiat about marketing. (which i do).

Wow. I'm glad that you know jack shiat about your job, but wow.

thepostaftermeisgay

Fortunately for me, I choose to 'Reverse comment order'.

Sorry madpiper, you've been outed.

Some are good, decent people...

Some are plain retarded...

most fall in between...

wait, am i talking about frats or fark?

Count me in the group that has no problem with fraternities.

Fraternities: where young men learn to behave like teenage girls.

Think as a group?

So does a cult, do you want to join one? I hear Heaven's Gate needs some new members....

thepostaftermeisgay: "Especially when I was balls deep in the object of some poor farking geeks object of desire. God bless you, Theta girls."

Yes, when they were drunk off their ass and had no idea knew who they were with and where they were.

I had 3 friends in school who were raped by frat guys at parties. One piece of shiat did it in front of his "brothers" and that piece of human waste is in prison now. I actually got one of his own "brothers" to testify against him.

Do a poll as to how many girls were taken advantage of at a frat party and give me the "bad apple" excuse. The whole orchard is farking rotten and someone needs to do something about it...

Meh, I was in a fraternity. It's a good time. Made a ton of friends (guys and girls). Got to live in an awesome house 2 blocks from campus for dirt cheap. Plus there was no shortage of stuff to do, ever; parties, cookouts, intramural sports, charity events, you name it. All in all it was a good way to spend my college years. Granted there are plenty of assholes in the system but I can recall plenty of articles in the campus paper about independents involved in vandalism, drugs, rape, just about anything people like to accuse of us. After awhile the critics just roll off your back, not even worried about them. By the way, my house raised around $60,000 annually for kids with cancer, on top of the other charities and community service projects we did. Most independents cant claim anywhere near that.

By the way, my house raised around $60,000 annually for kids with cancer, on top of the other charities and community service projects we did. Most independents cant claim anywhere near that.

Always a poor argument. At RIT there were plenty of non-fraternity groups that raised money for charity. I'm sure it's the same at other schools as well.

Why does it always seem like PiKes get in trouble for hazing? They got kicked off our campus (UMass Amherst) for beating the shiat out of some pledge. Come on people, don't leave marks!

Diogenes: Did the dorm throw and sponsor a party that carted under age girls to their door to fill them with free alcohol and gave them no easy way home?

That's why I left my frat when I was a junior. I had a sense of maturity and a respect for women that no one else had. I could have joined one of the few "loser" frats on campus that did, but their was no point.

I was in a frat. Good times. Sure it had its share of assholes and morons, but so does my office and my neighborhood.

wusses, I got tazed

Yet another summary...

Pro-Frat: Mostly been in a Fraterity or had a pleasent experience in one.

Anti-Frat: Bad experience with Fraterities or buys into the stereotype.

Not all fraternities are evil, date raping, party houses. Some are, and the stories get told. It is called stereotyping. People do it all the time. Republicans and Democrats. Christians and Muslims. White and African American. Get the point?

/Wishes those evil, date raping hell holes weren't there.

Tupuli:

Whatever. Like I care what you think.

Diogenes: I think you know what I mean by loser frats. Anyone who has been in the greek system on a college campus knows there are a couple frats that take guys who just want to be in a frat. They do not necessarly behave better than the other frats, they just have dumber people who are really desperate to be a part of a group.

shiat, that's it? I would have begged for a pellet gun. Sigma Kai lined up with baseball spikes and took shots at me while I ran through. Those left some cute little scars, but I wouldn't trade the friendships I made while there or all the frat skank poony I tagged for gold.

Well maybe gold... or cash money.

Being in a sorority rocks. Everything's considered hazing--everyone's too scared to try anything. We couldn't do a scavanger hunt to find our Big Sis's because the advisors were scared someone would find out and accuse us of hazing. Ohhh yeah. Pledging was the easiest thing I had ever done.

/Take that, frat boys
//All Greeks here on Double Secret Probation

I could tell the stories of my pledge days in two different ways. One would generally have people laughing and the other would have people calling the police. If you don't think you're the kind of person that can take some humiliation with a grain of salt, stay away from the frat house.

Also, the "half naked" thing in my house was mostly so your clothes didn't get ruined. Shaving cream, raw eggs, and just about anything else was likely to get dumped on you (nothing sick like waste or anything).

I thought pledging was hilarious. We had a lot of fun, and it does create a bond between fellow pledges.

DrZombie

Sure there are plenty of charitable groups that independents get involved in. My point was greeks, on average, do more charitable and community service oriented work than independents. I'll go out on a limb and say it because it's true everywhere I've been.

I didn't know they allowed guns in the People's Republic of Berkeley.

naked ninja

The whole orchard is farking rotten and someone needs to do something about it...

I have some gasoline and a few rags laying around.

Suffering teaches self-discipline and common suffering quickly develops unit cohension and group identity, as any USMC drill instructor will tell you. This is the functional social reason that hazing keeps happening, not just tradition or meanness by the older members although that's part of it.

The problem with lots of frats is they use such artificial, stupid, and homoerotic ways of causing the pledges suffering. They need to go out and hike 20 miles or go skydiving or do something semi-constructive instead of all the pulling down pants and messing with shaving cream.

ElBarto79

Yes, except that in your examples, I'm sure that the fraternities have decided that raising money was going to be something they do. If you join a group that raises money for charity, there's a high probability you are going to be raising money for charity.

On the other hand if you join a group who, say, is into rock climbing, it's not one of the goals of the group to raise money. Of course, if I go joing the "Children's Fundraisers of America", then I bet you I have a higher chance of raising money for charity than if I joined a frat.

I do concede to you that many fraternities make it one of their goals to raise money, but so do a lot of other organizations, many of whom do other things besides just raising money too.

There's a saying we had with pledging.

Pledging, it's the best time you never want to have again.

This was pretty much true. It sucks to pledge, but you get through it, your a stronger person and then your a brother. Do I agree with these guys and what they're doing? Of course not. I don't condone the actions of other fraternities but on the same level, I'm not going to group all of the other chapters to this one because I don't know them. If you join a fraternity, you're probably gonna get hazed but thats a choice you have to weigh in when you accept your bid and want to become a brother.

Oh by the way, my fraternity never accused of any sexual harrasment and also started the group on school against sexual crimes...and we still throw damn good parties.

DrZombie

What was your point again? You seem to be saying that if someone knowingly joins a charitable organization and raises money with them it doesn't count because they knew thats what they would be doing when they joined? You aren't making a lot of sense, but I will concede; I joined a fraternity and we did a lot of charitable work...you win?

On another note, there is an MIT frat who at one of their parties every year, someone makes a punch with urine in it, and it's served to guests. I know someone who almost drank the punch, until his relative, and member of the frat, warned him against it.

The person who told me is a close friend and has been for years, and is not one given to hyperbole.

ElBarto79

You're saying that frats do a lot more charity work than "independents" I guess you called them. Well, duh? My point was that if you join an organization where one of the stated goals is to raise money, don't start patting yourself on the back because of it. It's not like you're going out of your way for it. Sure, feel good about doing your "job", I guess, in the organization, but don't act like you're going above and beyond.

On the other hand, if you have something like the specialized dorms at RIT, where they are just for students in majors to house together and do work as a group, and then go out of their way to hold a fundraiser to help some charitable organization, I'll give them a golf clap and move on.

Frats raise money for charity just like Miss America is a scholarship pageant. Sure it's nice, but that's not really the point. There's nothing wrong with a social organization to make friends, drink together, or whatever. But some frats are dominated by guys who are short on common sense or maturity and don't know when they've stepped over the line like with this crap about shooting people with pellet guns. One of the things guys ought to be learning in frats is when to tell a friend to stop being so farking stupid.

All I have to say is god damn

So what I'm hearing is this from Fratties:

Getting shot naked with a BB gun makes you stronger
Being forced to drink beer makes your stronger
anal raping goats makes you stronger

Wow. What kind of lame ass people are you all recruiting in your fraternities.

You know I felt pretty uncomfortable with myself, and I was weak and frail. But when another man shot me in the ass with a BB gun while I was naked, NOW I feel a man!

You people make me giggle.

I got really drunk at a frat house a few weeks ago. I beat everyone at halo 2.

DrZombie

You're really stretching buddy, the respectable thing to do would be to just say "yes they do some good things, good for them, but they also do this other stuff I don't like heres why" but obviously thats not good enough, you have to grasp at straws to downplay any good we may do, fine. Is giving up several weeekends a semester to travel to different parts of the state to raise money while sleeping on floors going "out of my way"? How about getting up at 6 am on a Saturday morning to spend several hours collecting garbage from the streets of the town? Or maybe when I stayed up on my feet for 48 hours straight in a charity dance marathon, was that going above and beyond? Seriously, if you want to say we're dicks for whatever reason fine, I don't really care about that. But please don't trivialize any of the work we did to help people out there that seriously needed it. We regularly delivered toys to children with cancer that lived hours away from us, why don't you ask those families if they think we went out of our way to help them out. Yes, me and the people I lived with did go "out of our way" to help others, we busted our asses constantly, so screw you.

ZekeMacNeil: Frat Boys are not people.

Thank you for clarifying your earlier bold type blurt. Due to your use of generalization and clear stereotypical dislike of frat boys I will not try to change your opinion. Nor will I engage in a stereotyping of university librarians. On behalf of the stereotypical frat boy, I apologies for the wronging of your person and disregard for your work environment. I realize that you are not directly attacking me even though I am a fraternity member, just your generalization made me want to comment.

Clearly, I am hampered in this tread by a two sided polarity of views. Any attempt on my part to justify an alternative view is denounced or disproved by an errant post. Please, slander my viewpoint in another way if you feel like venting further.

ElBarto79

Or the 10 hours a week I volunteered in a soup kitchen in high-school, on top of a job, or the races I run now to raise money for charity, or any of the numerous other community service activities I do that I DON'T NEED TO BE IN A FRAT TO DO. You were trying to argue that being in a frat means that you'll do more community service type things. I argued that yeah, it's easy to say that when those organizations have adopted them as part of their policy. I could just as easily say that if you join Habitat for Humanity you're probably going to be doing more charity work than someone who's not. You join that organization knowing full well you're going to be doing those things. It's not outside the scope of what you do, unlike for some people/groups who have 0 committment to doing anything for anyone else and still do it anyway.

It's not like you have to join. If you don't want to be a part of it, don't. No reason to complain all the time because other people are interested in something.

Am I interested in skydiving? Nope...and thats why I'm not a member of a skydiving club. At the same time I'm not going to insult people for throwing themselves out of airplanes.

/I heard from a friend that all skydivers are rapists, too.

DaShredda

getting forced to drink beer makes you stronger

forced? what in gods name are you doing pledging a fraternity if you are being forced into drinking beer. I was extremely anti-fraternity until I went to a Monday Night Football party at Beta and all of a sudden there were girls selling jello shots, quite a few kegs, and it is rumored I still hold the record for projectile vomiting on the first night there.

What kind of lame ass people are you recruiting

You say recruit like we actually went out there and screamed into bullhorns "JOIN US JOIN US!!". Hardly. We threw large parties that were open to everyone (so even you could have gotten a free cup of beer and oogled some of our women) and from those gatherings people asked to join us. Then and only then, did we pick and narrow it down to the people we thought had the mental and physical toughness to go through the pledge process.

And I refuse to even address the person by name who posted that fraternaties are hotbeds for sexual assault. There were two instinces of sexual assault on my campus during my four year stay. One involved some wackjob quiet kid who stalked this girl for months and the other was with a sports team and that was more one of those "I just blew the entire offensive line and I wish I didn't because now I may have a bad reputation" type-things.

A persons predisposition towards sexually deviant behavior and agressive nature are not dependent upon their choice to be in a fraternity.

/I heard from a friend that all skydivers are rapists, too.

We are, if you're talking about our wit.

/I heard from a friend that all skydivers are rapists, too.

We are, if you're talking about our wit.

Too obscure?

You still aren't making sense; because greeks have a history of giving back its somehow trivialized? right, ok...you're getting into some sort of philosophical argument that is CLEARLY over my puny, beer-addled, greek head. Keep trying buddy.

2005-04-27 11:33:07 AM ElBarto79

You still aren't making sense; because greeks have a history of giving back its somehow trivialized? right, ok...you're getting into some sort of philosophical argument that is CLEARLY over my puny, beer-addled, greek head. Keep trying buddy.

Doesn't seem to be that hard to understand. Must be your status as a fraternity brother.

I'm an alumna member of a sorority and while I was in university the guys in one of the frats were some of the best guys to know and hang out with. Did they drink? Yes. Did they sometimes act like drunken fools? Sure, but so did everyone at my school. The main difference was the Sigs at my school really looked out for my sisters and I, and not just in the "let's get into their pants" kinda way. Those guys were honestly like big brothers to my sorority, teasing us girls at times but the first people to help us out if we were in trouble.

/Alpha Delta Pi girl

I know that hazing is ridiculous. I'm adamently against it (my sorority chapter is vigilent about not letting it happen) but frats can't be dismissed simply because some of them participate in it.

DrZombie and ElBarto79 have reached a stalmate?

Time for one of them to Godwin this tread. Who will it be? I wait with bated breath.

DrZombie

Fair enough, you know, if you ever volunteer for a large charity, say the red cross, habitat for humanity or whatever...I hope you just keep it to yourself and don't mention to anyone that you did said charity work because you know, really, it doesn't REALLY count as charity work since you knew when you signed up you would be doing it.

Half naked?

Which half? If they mean topless, BFD...

Hit by a pellet gun while not wearing a shirt and whining about it is GAY...regardless what you think of the Frat system.

/ GDI
// Had "greek" friends
// Did "greek" ladies :P

I rent a room in a fraternity and mostly keep to myself. I think the best moment of the semester was when two drunk alumni of the fraternity woke me up at 6:30 AM on a Sunday asking if I had any beer, thinking I was a member, and I told them to fark off.

to be general, there are a few types of frats.

1) Crazy date rape kill the pledge frat. These guys run around in pink shirts and totally are against what frat is about. They do throw a hell of a party though.

2) The take anyone who wants to join frat. These guys throw parties where 2 people non frat come. No one likes these guys. In many universities they are considered "That frat".

3) The small but tight frat. In my opinion, the best kind. They really are frat in all its meaning (the original meaning). They can be crazy or more relaxed, but everyone in the frat is that and they are together because it is a group of 20 or so good friends. These people usually stay together after frat days end because of the great friendships that were formed.

just a quick list, so all you people that are stereotyping frats can get a sence that all frats are not created equal. They are all different. At OSU we have 30 some frats, and they are all different. Ive been to about 7, and they are all different, different people, different mentality, only a few have been stereotypical "frat".

So all the frats on campus yesterday were building forts around their houses. I asked a frat friend of mine to explain to me why. He replied, "When you were in first grade, wouldn't you have thought it would be cool to build a fort around the entire house?" I answered "yes, so anytime I need an explanation of frat behavior, I just ask: 'would I have thought this to be cool in first grade'?" He said, "yup, we have the money, the resources, and the time to do everything we wanted to do in first grade."

So I guess thats it in a nutshell - an explanation for frat behavior in an easy to use container. As a matter of fact, I live right next to a frat house, and this morning they were shooting water balloons down onto cars as they drove by.

2005-04-27 11:42:55 AM Timbomb

DrZombie and ElBarto79 have reached a stalmate?

Time for one of them to Godwin this tread. Who will it be? I wait with bated breath.

I'm Hitler.

i'm with loraksus on this one. this happens just about every day at the frats here. it's always been like this and always will as long as frats r around (and they will be with the money they get). i won't complain b/c the free booze they have at parties is ok i guess. but i still think they r freakishly close to cults.

So tired of hearing from dorks and loosers about how bad fraternities are when the only thing they know about them is based on newspaper articles and stories from third parties.

I was in a fraternity. I had a blast. Pledging and hazing is bullshiat and anyone with half a brain knows it. That bozo that said something about going through hard times forms stronger bonds is sadly mislead. Strong bonds are formed by spending quality time with others, on a trip or something where you have to communicate with each other (group projects, team building etc).

When I pledged the brothers would do dumb shiat to us, and we'd play along like we were scared etc. It was all a big joke, and we'd laugh about it when we were alone (it helped that the brothers in our house largely didn't take it too seriously - we could hear them laughing etc when they would make sheep noises when we were blind folded etc).

As a brother, I never hazed anyone because I figured how can I treat you like shiat one day and then be your friend once you go through some ceremony. The guys that were the big hazers were total dickheads and the first to be treated like shiat once a pledge class got brotherized.

Bottom line - fraternities are not for everyone. I enjoyed my time in one and I encourage others to take a look. They are not for everyone.

scaltagi

So that would explain our mock civil war when I was a junior. We used to stockpile our resources for the year in our storage closet. Our yearly shipment of paper products was short 12 cases of butt wipe paper, and Perkins sent us an entire pallet worth. Dropped it off right in front of our front door.

We staged an entire weekend worth of battle, with clear lines and clear rules. A toilet paper roll is a great weapon to inflict just enough damage to let somebody know you care. Our war lasted the entire weekend until we all pretty much couldn't lift our arms anymore and the entire house was waist deep almost in toilet paper.

Best weekend ever.

and god dammit, the South will rise again!!!

dookster: so calling everybody who disagrees with the organization a dork and loser is very intelligent. Did they teach you that in the frat, or did you remember it from middle school? Any organization that allows this activity to continue must be evaluated - obviously the stern warnings they have recieved mean nothing as people still die and are humiliated in fraterity setting. Questioning its value is not just for the people within the organization, but also in general society as well.

I would just like to say that I have absolutely no problem with fraternities when it comes to community service, drunken parties or the friendships that they form together. My problem is the elitist structure the entire Greek system works so tirelessly to maintain, and the almost comical level of effort that is everyone puts into conforming to a particular identity.

In the end, the only way they can respond to those that question their system is to say that since they aren't part of it, they simply wouldn't understand.

Congratulations, you sodomized a goat.... here are some Greek letters for your jacket.

ROBOT HOUSE!!!!!

scal. go away. obviously someone *cough* you *cough* didn't get a bid.

shiat happens. bad things happen in prisons, on atheltic teams, in bus stations, in the mall, in the military, at my local bar, and on the highway where some insane number of people are killed each year. based on you logic, all of these should be shut down immedeately to end the carnage (or the humiliation - "mommy, stop the humilation. never mind the Aids crisis in Africa or the starvation in he Sudan, someone just told me to strip to my boxer shorts"), not just the users or denizens of said locations, but also by general society as well.

the bottom line is that people know what goes on in fraternities yet the CHOOSE to join. I knew damn well I was going to go through some stupid shiat. I'm a man, I have a pair of balls and I can take it. NO one FORCED me to join a fraternity.

look butthole. while I may come off as an uneducated tard boy, I know this topic inside and out (fraternity hazing). I know all the arguments for and against. I am against it so amazingly we agree there. Get off your high horse and go find another windmill. Fraternities do more good than harm (just like the other items I listed above). I'd prefer hazing not exisit but demonizing all fraternity men because of a few bad apples is like condemning the entire US and British military because of the Abu Gharib fiasco.

dookster, just because you know the topic doesnt mean you are unbiased. Secondly, you have not responded to my comment, that general society, including myself, are free to evaluate and judge these organizations - not just those involved. In fact, I would say that we are in a better position to judge. As with the militaries, general society has the duty to evaluate and judge the actions of the members - we are reasonable to be angry with Abu Gharib, not just members of the military are allowed to evaluate the situation. You have only strengthened my argument and not answered the core of my argument.

TylerDurden0
It's Sigma Chi, not Sigman Kai.

thank you dookster

I heard a story yesterday about a frat that a few years ago had all the pledges go around to a buncha sororities. they then had to finnish a bottle of liquor together and then had to find there big brother, if they didnt find him at that house, they went to the next sororitie. And so on. Well at the end of this, one dude was so drunk he passed out cold sitting at a bar. His head fell forward, and he smacked his teeth on the edge of the bar. He learned the next day that he smashed all his teeth. The dude didnt have much of a problem with it other than getting his teeth fixed. But when he told his parents, they went ape crap and got the frat suspended i think.

the moral of the story is that when you are going to be hazed, you know what is to be expected. You know that when you go sky diving there is a chance that you will die, but you go along with it. If you cant handle the hazing, then you shouldnt say that people who do it are stupid.


//just my 2 cents
///keep the flames comin
////woot for lambda chi alpha

I guess I'll chime in as an ex-fraternity President about one year removed from it.

Hazing is stupid and pointless. On my campus, we had an unrecognized fraternity kill a pledge because of hazing. That created a huge storm for all the legit organizations because everyone was hazing. The most difficult part of abolishing hazing is getting everyone to go along with it at first. They still hold on to the "it happened to us, it should happen to them" mentality. However, the consequences for hazing on our campus were likely expulsion, and our group needed to get clean as fast as we could, so I basically got together with anyone who was interested and developed a program that eliminated hazing but still got all the necessary information (songs, oaths, etc) across. The result is surprisingly good - pledging becomes more of an open dialog and you can get your new guys in and actually contributing very quickly, they feel like they're giving something to the group. Considering our circumstances, I feel that it was the right choice given the tremendous pressure we were under to not get caught.

scaltagi_the_pirate:

Questioning its value is not just for the people within the organization, but also in general society as well.

Your arguement is based on the principle that fraternities affect society as a whole. dookster was saying that people choose to join, thus baseing this as a society issue is a little off base. You can cry all you want just don't join and you solve all problems. This is a issue for the college, the police (if it is criminal), and the fraternity organization in terms of punishment. Let me restate, if no one joins, no fraternities. If people are dumb enough to join the bad ones they deserve each other. In all, you should punish the individual not the fraternity institution, just like military example.

Your making a generalization, idiot. Making arguments based on general statements is, well, stupid. You can biatch and moan about how bad frats are, but your knowledge is based on what ammounts to spoon fed media reports and second hand knowledge. This gets back to the stereotyping the frat boy and his actions. Unless you have been involved with a frat you really have no basis to judge. Even then you have no way of knowing how it is in all frats all over the country. Sure there are "bad apples", but that is the only side you see.

You don't have an argument to strengthen. In the future try to make specific comments towards the individual topic. No one will disagree that shooting someone with a pellet gun is dumb.

Well... this is Fark.

I'm a man, I have a pair of balls and I can take it.

In the ass, from what I hear.

Max

....just like the military example..


/Should proof before I submit I know.

Fraternities: Pay money to drink beer with A$$holes.

In the ass, from what I hear.

maxpublic , depends, are you hot?

1. If you are willing to haze and be hazed, if it's worth it to you, join a frat.
2. If you're not, don't.
3. STFU.
4. This thread lacks funny pictures.
5. International Frat Hazing Of Dorks Rules (c.1386) clearly state that ALL pledges being shot by pellets or BB's must be jaybird-naked.
6. Please Sir, may I have another?

There is another way to develop close friendships. I belong to a group which is one-for-all and all-for-one, and this mentality is accomplished by being kind to one another and treating the others with respect. There is no benefit in abusing others and being abused. Being violent does not prove you are a person of worth.

Solia + Catsaregreen = SoliaGreen

IT'S PEOPLE!!!!

Something like this happened when I was at school at Columbia back in the early 90's, involving the brothers of Phi Gamma Delta (FiJi), everyone's favorite date rapist frat. Crazy thing about FiJi- they seem to universally be the date rapist frat at every school. What's up with that? Usually a frat might be the nerd frat at one school, the knuckle-draggers at another, but FiJi.... always the date rapists.

And don't get me started on the pig roast at RPI's chapter of AEPi. Those of you in the know will realize why this is funny.

At the University of Rhode Island there used to be a Phi Gamma Delta chapter, they had one of the nicest houses on campus too. They lost their charter when it was discovered that party guests (read: not the fraternity members) were slipping things into the drinks.

At my fraternity we had a different kind of "pig roast". Lets just say there was a female spit involved. One in front, one in back (making wheel cranking motion with arm) and one in the middle...the pig roast. Such fun days.

Catsaregreen Dude, lighten up. Did you have a bad experience at a fraternity party? Is it easier to just say that we pay to drink beer with assholes? Think about it Tinkerbelle, somebody has to buy the beer no matter where you drink it, and yes, that includes your weekly Magic:The Gathering tournament in your mother's basement.

Calm down people. Remember, those that took it up the ass early on will be stuck taking it up the ass for the rest of their lives by execs, spouses, bosses, etc. People can live the farce lifestyle for a short time. It all changes when the financial aid/daddy's money runs out and the real world comes into focus.

i was in a frat at cal, and i wish all that happened to use during hazing was getting shot with a soft air gun.

in any case, getting hazed is fun.

I'm currently a law student at U of Michigan, and last year I lived across the street from the Sigma Chi frat. I always found it annoying that they would blast music at 7am on football Saturdays (hey guys, aren't you supposed to be sleeping off hangovers at that hour. :)) Then one day the music stopped. I later found out that the fraternity had been shut down because of an interesting hazing ritual: They had forced a student to work out continuously without food (so his muscles would start to breakdown) or water (so the by-products of the muscle breakdown caused kidney failure). That's when I realized that it is all well and good to stop frats from forcing students to drink themselves into comas, but the frats will find other ways to inflict physical harm on pledges.
NOTE: The kid was a junior (isn't that a little late to be pledging) kinesiology major (of all people, he should have known better than to let himself be bullied into doing something that harmful)

Kappa Kappa Gamma
KKG
It means "Key to the Kingdom of God", I think it's a guarded secret or some crap

-Kappa girls always showed me a good time in college
-was not a frat-boy

LMark

That type of malady is actually quite common when hazing. All I remember is that a high "CPK" level is bad, very bad.

cpk=some kind of enzyme/protein level in the kidney, any md's?

I wasn't in a fraternity, but I have nothing against them.. If it worked for you who am I to say otherwise.

However, as a hiring manager, if a resume comes across my desk and the sad sack that wrote it felt the need to list his frat as if I gave a shiat.. I'm very likely to file it in the round filing cabinet.

Using your little club to try to get an "in" is just sad. Don't have confidence in your own abilities?

SideshowBob:

But what about a guy who was the treasurer of his Fraternity who was in charge of managing a $135K budget?

I will list my fraternity membership on my resume in hopes of an interviewer asking me about it. I am proud of my fraternity and have nothing to hide about it.

Not all fraternities are filled with the khaki wearing, BMW driving, "pop it like its hot" collared jackasses that haze and have no respect for anyone but themselves.

Scratch that.

Make that no respect for anyone, including themselves.

And trust me, I've heard every single line.."You frat guys are gay, you pay for your friends, you suck each other off...

And as a Beta, I tried not to let this bother me and get me upset, and it usually worked. Especially when I was balls deep in the object of some poor farking geeks object of desire. God bless you, Theta girls.

That's strange. I quit my frat my junior year. It was lame and expensive. There were parties all the time, but we basically were forced to go to them even if someone else had a much cooler party. As for the chicks, sorority chicks were just as easy and boring when I quit the frat as when I was in it. No girl that I know of ever said, "Oh, you aren't in a frat...bwahahaha..."

If you needed a frat to get chicks, that scares me.

Cheese n rice people. College is a glorified high school. Right down to the cliques. Grow the fark up and start being productive in society.

SideshowBob:

However, as a hiring manager, if a resume comes across my desk and the sad sack that wrote it felt the need to list his frat as if I gave a shiat.. I'm very likely to file it in the round filing cabinet.

Using your little club to try to get an "in" is just sad. Don't have confidence in your own abilities?

LOL

Are you looking at all of the resumes I am? Almost every resume that has come across my desk listed frats. The only ones that haven't have been from kids still in High School looking for summer work.

Yes, all the charity events are nice, but the serious problems of date rape, hazing and all sorts of nasty things still go on. Most frats aren't the sterotypical "problem" frats, but the damage that is done by the problem frats is massive. Think about this, most rapes are never reported. If one girl has the courage to come foward after being assaulted by some jerkoff in a Dave Matthews Band T-shrit (Just a joke, I loved "Crash into me")...imagine how many women suffered the same fate? Two? Five? Ten? Twenty?

The sad part is, nothing is ever done until something horrible happens. Charters aren't revoked until someone dies from hazing, overdose/poisoning, or some girl gets rammed after a roofie-and-coke. There has to be some way to prevent this sort of crap from happening in the first place. I applaud the frats who activly try to stop this from happening, but the problem still exists.

REO-Weedwagon,

KKG doesn't stand for Keys to the Kingdom of God. This seems to be a common misconstruction, aided in part because one of Kappa's symbols is the key. But it really doesn't stand for that.

BUZZBOY "I'd like to know if it was an actual pellet gun or a toy airsoft gun."

You are correct. it was an Airsoft pellet gun. Shoots plastic pellets that are in no way as dangerous as metal ones unless you get hit in the eye of course. I imagine if it had been a potato pellet gun the media would still have reported it as a "pellet" gun.

there is hardly a consensus on the facts of this case;

Stanford University The Stanford Daily-

A 19-year-old University of California at Berkeley student was shot more than 30 times with a BB gun by three members of the Pi Kappa Phi fraternity in an alleged hazing incident.

The student was a pledge of Pi Kappa Phi and was allegedly picked up by approximately 15 fraternity members. He was taken to the fraternity house where he was stripped to his T-shirt and boxers.

Channel 7 in the bay area
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/042605_nw_hazing.html

A 19-year-old pledge was treated for welts and bruises after officials say he was shot at least 30-times with an air gun, or possibly a BB gun.


SF chronicle:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/04/16/BAG0PC9U621.DTL
The group took the victim to a room and stripped him of his clothes -- down to his T-shirt and boxer shorts -- and interrogated him as to where the other pledges were, Rego said. Pledges are those who want to join a fraternity.

"When apparently some of the information wasn't forthcoming enough," three men took turns shooting him in the chest and arms with BB guns, Rego said. In all, the three shot him repeatedly from a distance of 5 feet, leaving him with numerous welts and bruises.

Why are the facts cloudy? Because nobody is pressing charges. The "victim" didn't even report the incident. It only came to the attention of police and the media after a nurse at a hospital notified police. The student went there the following day to be treated for "welts and bruises" which is consistent with an airsoft gun but not a BB or pellet gun. BB's and pellets will break the skin at a distance of 5 feet.


Please don't consider me an apologist for hazing since I don't condone any extreme hazing but you have to have some rituals as a group or you are just a boarding house. airsoft pellet guns will not arise the furor of the nation, how many kids have seen Steve O and Johnny Knoxville get walloped by far worse. The kids in college watched Jacka$$ on MTV when they were in high school, what do you expect them to do?

Life imitates art.

If you went to college in the mid 80's I'm sure you went to more than one Animal House style Toga party or yelled "ROAD TRIP!" and I'm not just going to sit here while you BADMOUTH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!

Gentlemen....

My "free" friends never did that shiat to me.

"You may ask yourselves, 'Why am I holding a cinderblock?' You may wonder 'Why is there a rope around this cinderblock?' You may then ask 'Why is the other end of this rope tied to my pecker? And why am I standing on the edge of the roof?' Well, boys, it's all about trust. Did we measure out enough rope for that cinderblock to reach the ground? You'll just have to trust in the brotherhood."

/Totally from memory.
//Probably way off.