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(NBC13)   Rabbi, swastika-wearing man fight at airport. Winner to take on President Clinton in "Battle of the old joke contestants"   (nbc13.com) divider line 426
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17076 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Apr 2005 at 10:00 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-04-19 11:44:28 AM
A gentile goes into a clothing store and says: "This is a might nice jacket. How much is it?"

The salesman says, "It's five hundred dollars."

The gentile says, "OK, I'll take it."
 
2005-04-19 11:44:40 AM
I think all racists should wear swastikas... either that, or a sign that says "I'm a dumbass".
 
2005-04-19 11:45:21 AM
herne- WTF? I aks a question and immediately you are inferring I am a Nazi. Go fark yourself
 
2005-04-19 11:45:32 AM
LoveInAction:

I know plenty of folks who have been escorted to the police station for not keeping their yaps shut during a routine traffic citation stop

That's against the law. It's called resisting arrest. You are lawfully bound to cooperate with law enforcement.

And I know of plenty of folks that got their asses beat for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time

That's not being arrested and going to jail for speech.

And we all know the stories of Jimmy The Greek and that fellow from the Dodgers (Campanis?) who lost their jobs for saying the wrong thing.

Neither is that. You can get fired for farking up anywhere.

Yeah, you may want to call the Captain and have him give you some pointers on what "going to jail" actually means.
 
2005-04-19 11:46:00 AM
Wytchocolate
A constitutinal scholar here. My bad I thought it was the 35th amendment. I would punch the Nazi in the face and take my punishment.
 
2005-04-19 11:46:59 AM


Doesn't look harmful to me. Look, it says giftgas. A gift is something good. QED.
 
2005-04-19 11:47:28 AM
Bored24:

Someone please enlighten me if I am wrong but I always thought that Zyklon was used as a delousing agent, not to gas anyone.

It was a pesticide that was first experimentally used on concentration camp prisoners as a delousing agent. It was basically just a trademark for a way of storing and delivering hydrogen cyanide gas, often in pellet form.

It was always very dangerous and they found out that by just using a bit more of it and shutting off ventilation they could kill large amounts of people with it cheaply. It was basically cyanide, after all.
 
2005-04-19 11:48:00 AM
The Nazi's right to freedom of expression is granted by the government. The government has to respect that right; ordinary citizens don't.


I'm glad that we all agree that it's okay to attack symbols we find offensive. That's why I throw a brick through the rear window of any car with a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker. (Substitute Bush/Cheney at will)
 
2005-04-19 11:48:01 AM
chai1836 - We are small congregation and do not have a lot of money (insert predictable and unclever joke here) We are collecting donations to support the legal defense fund for our Rabbi. No doubt the ignorant skinhead will press charges. Please make donations through paypal using Rabbilegalyahoo.com. All proceeds will go to directly support our Rabbi during this difficult time.

Sorry. To echo the sentiments of others, I think this a very misguided cause. The Rabbi deserves his punishment. As deplorable an idealogy as the neo-nazi was promoting, he was doing it in a manner well within his rights.

The Rabbi is the one who crossed the line... Your right to swing your fist and all that. He had every right to TELL the guy exactly how he felt, but by getting physical, he was in essence attempting to coerce the guy to accept his view, or face consequences the Rabbi had no right to impose.

I don't know if anyone else has trotted it out, but it's the "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

We can't ever allow ourselves to begin to believe that the ends justify the means where free speech is concerned, or that "some" speech really is just so unacceptable that we're right to ban it and/or stamp it out in any way we can.

We cannot persecute others simply because we disagree with them or object to what they say, no matter how vehement our disagreement is, or how righteous we believe our objections to be, and that's precisely what the Rabbi attempted to do here.

Free speech is our most valuable right, and it's only safe when we protect it in even its most reprehensible forms.
 
2005-04-19 11:48:53 AM
Bored24:

herne- WTF? I aks a question and immediately you are inferring I am a Nazi. Go fark yourself

Holocaust deniers claim that the gas-chambers were fake and that Zyklon B was used as a delousing agent putting you in good company.

BTW, Buddhists at least seem to use it both directions.
 
2005-04-19 11:49:07 AM
If I learned anything from Castle Wolfenstein, I think anyone wearing/displaying the swastika should be considered a Nazi - and killed.

I have no use for these idiots, be they genuine or posers.

I wish there wasn't a fight - Just a point a couple of weeks down the line a point where the Nazi gets found dead.

Human trash.

Cremation optional.

White Power Tip #48 - Drink 8oz of Clorox bleach a day. It makes whites whiter!
 
2005-04-19 11:49:42 AM
morrisonsl
So you propose to allow anyone to express any idea but to also allow anyone that takes offence to react with violence and impunity?

No, just Nazis.
 
2005-04-19 11:49:52 AM
kiteflyer: thank you for displaying that Monty Python was right about Martin Luther.


Tell that to a non-Jew living in Israel, subject to a different set of laws than Jewish-born people are. Isn't that what we despise in the Nazi mindset, that one "race" is supreme? That only those of pure blood are to be afforded maximum protection under the Law?

We, above all people, love The Law. --- Alan Dershowitz
 
2005-04-19 11:50:07 AM
herne:

Holocaust deniers claim that the gas-chambers were fake and that Zyklon B was used as a delousing agent putting you in good company.

Tim McVeigh spoke English and had the letter "h" in his name. That puts you in good company.

/rollseyes
//it was a farking question, based on the fact that it WAS in fact a delousing agent
 
2005-04-19 11:51:08 AM
Concert tour we'll never see:

 
2005-04-19 11:51:31 AM
majorhopper:

I don't hate Jewish people for crissakes, but Jewish Law (Talmud and Israeli law) treats the Jew one way, and the non-Jew another way. Hasn't it been decided that this is never good?

Care to explain? As far as I understand it Talmudic laws do not apply to non-jews. Jews dont tell non-jews that they shouldnt eat pig and neither does the Talmud. The only exception I know of to this is the forbiddence of worshipping idols. Can you cite explicit Israeli or Talmudic laws that apply to non-jews that treat them as inferrior or what have you? As far as I know Judaism plays well with other religions since jews believe that all people have their own path to god (and jews in particular have a jewish path).
 
2005-04-19 11:51:52 AM
herne- why the fark could you not just answer the question like morrisonsl did and not go on the attack, so to speak.
 
2005-04-19 11:52:13 AM
HAHAHAHAHA.. Loser Nazi Punk scumbag got his ass kicked by a Rabbi. God, why do I never get to see shiat like this.

Priceless!
 
2005-04-19 11:53:16 AM
2005-04-19 11:44:40 AM Johnny Golgotha

I think all racists should wear swastikas... either that, or a sign that says "I'm a dumbass".

What about a Jewish racist? What should they wear? What about people who aren't racists but are just dumbasses?
 
2005-04-19 11:53:36 AM
majorhopper: non-Jew living in Israel, subject to a different set of laws

Again wtf are you talking about? AFAIK non-jews are not required to serve in the military and thats the only difference.
 
2005-04-19 11:53:55 AM
Bored24:

herne- why the fark could you not just answer the question like morrisonsl did and not go on the attack, so to speak.

Because the question itself is often used in a loaded sense- if it wasn't in this case then apologies.
 
2005-04-19 11:55:04 AM
majorhopper : I wouldn't take Martin Luther's word for what is and isn't Jewish Law and Custom. Whatever you think of his role in the foundation of Protestantism, his writings on Judaism are noxiously anti-semitic.
 
2005-04-19 11:55:20 AM
2005-04-19 11:46:00 AM kuhns_m

Wytchocolate
A constitutinal scholar here. My bad I thought it was the 35th amendment. I would punch the Nazi in the face and take my punishment.


Don't get me wrong, I'd be tempted to do the same thing. But I don't think it would be worth the fines/jail time doing so. It would be close.
 
2005-04-19 11:55:35 AM
herne- accepted, but that attitude would be as bad as me saying that all Jews are really touchy about any questions regarding the holocaust. A generalization that is not necessarily true.
 
2005-04-19 11:56:08 AM
Considering the complete lack of details in the article, nobody here can make any assumptions on what exactly went down.

We don't know why the fellow was wearing the swastika, we don't know sqwat.

This fellow, even if he wore the symbol for non-hindu reasons, simply had his opinions validated by the rabbi.

He now has a story to tell, it would have been better for the world had the Rabbi simply said his piece and moved on.

Those of you who really think this guy was a Nazi are fools.

r
 
2005-04-19 11:57:27 AM
kuhns_m - Come on a lot of Americans died to stop Nazis and I am not about to become an fan for them now.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald

In this case, it's:

I despise Nazis and bigots and everything they stand for and believe.

but

It's critical to protect their right to hold those beliefs and even to express them openly.
 
2005-04-19 11:57:28 AM
2005-04-19 11:49:07 AM McRat [TotalFark]

White Power Tip #48 - Drink 8oz of Clorox bleach a day. It makes whites whiter!

Works on the skin as well!!!

 
2005-04-19 11:57:28 AM
As far as I know Judaism plays well with other religions since jews believe that all people have their own path to god (and jews in particular have a jewish path).

Except Nazis, or Muslims, or whoever else we choose...

What a bunch of crap! Any religous person would understand that God will take of people his own way. Must not be doing too much omnipotent, omnificient God talk in his temple..
 
2005-04-19 11:59:11 AM
The swastika-wearer, no matter how disgusting the symbols may be to most people, has every right to wear swastikas. As far as I can tell, it was the rabbi who decided to initiate a dialogue, inasmuch as you can call picking a fight a dialogue. Mr. Swastika was minding his own business until the rabbi started berating him. Methinks the rabbi needs to read his holy books a little more, and learn to save his preaching for those who come to the synagogue expecting some.

Anybody who picks a fight like that is just coming off as an asshat.
 
2005-04-19 11:59:21 AM
Instead, I can't remember hearing of one murder motivated by scientific reasoning.

Nathanallen, does the name Copernicus ring a bell?
 
2005-04-19 11:59:31 AM
Asteron:

Can you cite explicit Israeli or Talmudic laws that apply to non-jews that treat them as inferrior or what have you?

These are mostly posted on some pretty disgusting sites, so I'll just post a few I've seen around rather than link to those places (they don't deserve the attention, however I think much of this is fairly accurately translated, you can find these things in most religious texts):

Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30: "The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew."

Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b: "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human."

Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b: "The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called pigs."
Boda Sarah 37a. "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

Shas. 2:2. "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."


etc. etc.

/religions suck, mostly because the crazy old farks that shaped them were living in some farked up times
 
2005-04-19 11:59:48 AM
Bored24:

herne- accepted, but that attitude would be as bad as me saying that all Jews are really touchy about any questions regarding the holocaust. A generalization that is not necessarily true.

Not quite- as I was supposing an opinion not on who you were ethnically, but something you had said.

And Wytchocolate, Ian Stuart is dead so really really not likely.
 
2005-04-19 11:59:50 AM
*bows to the almighty Godwin*
 
2005-04-19 12:00:37 PM
tical: Except Nazis, or Muslims

are you saying it is the belief of the jewish people that muslims do not have a path to God? care to back that up with any proof?
 
2005-04-19 12:01:44 PM
technicolor-misfit:

I don't know if anyone else has trotted it out, but it's the "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

We can't ever allow ourselves to begin to believe that the ends justify the means where free speech is concerned, or that "some" speech really is just so unacceptable that we're right to ban it and/or stamp it out in any way we can.

We cannot persecute others simply because we disagree with them or object to what they say, no matter how vehement our disagreement is, or how righteous we believe our objections to be, and that's precisely what the Rabbi attempted to do here.

Free speech is our most valuable right, and it's only safe when we protect it in even its most reprehensible forms.


Amen.
 
2005-04-19 12:02:55 PM
morrisonsl: mostly posted on some pretty disgusting sites

I wouldnt necessarily trust these sites for accuracy... If that is the only location where it can be found than I am inclined to believe it is false.
 
2005-04-19 12:04:13 PM
I am against the very concept of "being offended". Shut the hell up and mind your own business, that goes for rabbis and nazis alike.
 
2005-04-19 12:05:35 PM
Asteron:

Can you cite explicit Israeli or Talmudic laws that apply to non-jews that treat them as inferrior or what have you?



Zohar (I, 38b, and 39a):

In the palaces of the fourth heaven are those who lamented over Zion and Jerusalem, and all those who destroyed idolatrous nations.

Those who killed off people who worship idols are clothed in purple garments so that they may be recognized and honored.


Sounds like that 50 virgins in Paradise craziness we keep hearing about in regards to suicide bombers.



As far as secular law in Israel, this is on the books:

4B. For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.

It makes my skin crawl to see racism codified in any Law, and that includes affirmative action.
 
2005-04-19 12:06:29 PM
Hey herne or morrisonsl- either of you two able to answer where the term Ashkenazi comes from? (Serious question, I find it odd that a term to describe a certain type of Jew contains the word Nazi.)
 
2005-04-19 12:06:31 PM
technicolor-misfit
Cool F. Scott Fitzgerald quote.
Look, I am about as big a free speech proponent as they come. Some would even say liberal, but I just can't stomach people whose speech include support for a ideology that killed millions and millions of people.
 
2005-04-19 12:06:47 PM
Nowhere in 2005 should someone be wearing them. And if you are wearing something so blatantly offensive, you should expect a member of the offended group to be upset.

In America you have the right to do just that. It's guaranteed by the Constitution. It doesn't matter if the guy's shirt bothers you or not, you don't get to tell him whether he can or cannot wear it. This isn't some second-rate socialist shiathole.

For those who praised the violent response of the rabbi, all I have to say is that if you're passing yourself off as an American you need to move your sorry ass off to one of the aforementioned shiatholes and stop pretending that you're a citizen of this country. If you can't abide by the Constitution you don't have any business living in this nation.

Max
 
2005-04-19 12:07:02 PM
McRat:

I have no use for these idiots, be they genuine or posers.

I wish there wasn't a fight - Just a point a couple of weeks down the line a point where the Nazi gets found dead.

Human trash.

Cremation optional.


It's funny how much this sounds like something some white power idiot would say about jews.

Two sides of the same coin?
 
2005-04-19 12:07:31 PM
Rafe:

The swastika-wearer, no matter how disgusting the symbols may be to most people, has every right to wear swastikas. As far as I can tell, it was the rabbi who decided to initiate a dialogue, inasmuch as you can call picking a fight a dialogue. Mr. Swastika was minding his own business until the rabbi started berating him.


Read up in the thread a little. Some Farker knows someone who works there and saw the whole thing. This asshat neo-nazi was hanging around the airport looking for a fight.
 
2005-04-19 12:08:34 PM
kuhns_m:

Look, I am about as big a free speech proponent as they come. Some would even say liberal, but I just can't stomach people whose speech include support for a ideology that killed millions and millions of people.

Like Christianity?
 
2005-04-19 12:09:34 PM
gwowen:

majorhopper : I wouldn't take Martin Luther's word for what is and isn't Jewish Law and Custom. Whatever you think of his role in the foundation of Protestantism, his writings on Judaism are noxiously anti-semitic.


I know that, but he was writing to a specific loathing of the Jewish people, brought about mainly because they could engage in usury (at least with non-jews) where Christians (Catholics) were forbidden to lend money.

The simple point is that their religion, their culture and even their Law says that people are to be treated differently, based on who they were born as.

Religion is a disease.
 
2005-04-19 12:09:34 PM
some people have no respect, especially rabbis. didn't he know hitler's b-day is tomorrow?
 
2005-04-19 12:09:48 PM

Mr. Goldberg is that you?
 
2005-04-19 12:10:02 PM
morrisonsl - So you propose to allow anyone to express any idea but to also allow anyone that takes offence to react with violence and impunity?

kuhns_m - No, just Nazis.

So then you support the klan? You think it's okay for them to hate and degrade blacks? and you support anti-american propagandists who burn the flag and insult and belittle our country and the troops who are fighting for us? and atheists who seek to erode the Christian values this country was founded on?

The nazis are unacceptable, but you have no problem with these people, and believe they should be allowed to continue on their path with undisturbed impunity?

You see, that's the problem... once you start down the road of deciding what beliefs and speech are acceptable... You don't know where it will end. One day it's unacceptable to wear a swastika, the next it's illegal to burn a flag, and then suddenly, you can't criticize the president. You can't read certain books. You have to monitor yourself when you're talking to friends because if you slip up and say the wrong thing, the cops are pulling you out of your house in the middle of the night... and then our country starts to look a whole lot like Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or Red China.

You may think it can't happen here, but you wouldn't be the first person in history to be wrong about that.
 
2005-04-19 12:10:26 PM
it seems like coffee in the face is a pretty small price to pay for an unimaginable amount of MURDER that this tool seems to SUPPORT
 
2005-04-19 12:11:18 PM
kuhns_m:

Look, I am about as big a free speech proponent as they come. Some would even say liberal, but I just can't stomach people whose speech include support for a ideology that killed millions and millions of people.


And I can't stomach the idea of killing even ONE person in the name of ideology. A person who is killed over such nonsense feels the same about it if he is killed alone, or in a field with 1000 others.
 
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