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(Tech Times)   Mom to lose visitation rights if she doesn't quit her pack and a half habit.   (nandotimes.com) divider line 316
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3623 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Mar 2002 at 12:36 PM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



316 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2002-03-26 12:40:11 PM
That punk kid is probably a little sissy if he can't handle a little smoke around him. What is this friggin world coming too?
 
2002-03-26 12:40:24 PM
Cannonball Plug, here I come.
 
2002-03-26 12:41:08 PM
this sucks
 
2002-03-26 12:41:51 PM
Good.

Smokers stink.

It is not like the kid has a choice here.
 
2002-03-26 12:43:09 PM
I see nothing wrong with telling the mom she can't smoke around the kid. If the kid doesn't want to be exposed to smoke, he shouldn't have to be. If she wants to smoke on her own time, though, then more power to 'er...
 
2002-03-26 12:43:12 PM
However, she will be allowed to keep smoking pole in front of the kid.
 
2002-03-26 12:43:21 PM
The good news is that the judge ruled that she did not have to stop her 45 pints a day beer habit.
 
2002-03-26 12:44:11 PM
If she were burning tires in the house, this would be a no brainer. Why is Cigarette smoke any different? Smokers have been inconveniencing Nonsmokers for some time, I like seeing the tables turned.

Disclaimer: I have a smoke allergy and Asthma. So maybe I am a little biased.
 
2002-03-26 12:44:21 PM
My parents smoked a lot, I developed asthma as a 20 year old. My doctor said the smoke while I was growing up was the biggest contributing factor.

You smoke around your kids, you might as well put lead in their milk.
 
2002-03-26 12:44:31 PM
The kid should just say "mom, fark off. i don't like you."
 
2002-03-26 12:44:55 PM
JerseyTim, agreed. Good call.
 
2002-03-26 12:46:10 PM
My parents smoked a lot, I developed asthma as a 20 year old.

When did the nightsweats kick in?
 
2002-03-26 12:46:29 PM
He's just pissed because she keeps bumming smokes off of him...
 
2002-03-26 12:46:30 PM
Eh, if I were the father I'd ask the biatch to do the kid's laundry at the laundry mat before bringing him home, too.

Left-over smoke on someone else's clothes is the worst.

And the only thing worse smelling than your clothes you wore to the bar the night before is probably the breath of 2 that you brought home with you.
 
2002-03-26 12:47:10 PM
I am going to go around farting in resteraunts, if I have to smell there smoke, they can smell my ass.
 
2002-03-26 12:47:28 PM
"Nicholas' law guardian, William Koslosky, of Utica, said the teen is in excellent health but told him last August that he didn't want to visit his mother because she smokes."

Then don't visit, it's your loss. What if she bred dogs? Would he refuse to go because the house smelled like animals and would the court order her to get rid of them?

My mother grew up in a smoking house. She's 68 and doing just fine. My grandfather was the smoker, for 50 years. He died of lung cancer at 78. But for some reason, these days, it seems babies and children alike are dropping like flies with even the slightest glimpse of a cigarette. When will hospitals get a grip and meet this unprecendented demand?
 
2002-03-26 12:47:56 PM
The kid probably drives her to smoke that much.
 
2002-03-26 12:48:03 PM
Nightsweats started when I bought .com stocks...
 
2002-03-26 12:48:31 PM
Go Judge!

Kids have a right to breathe, too.
 
2002-03-26 12:49:46 PM
Both my parents smoked--in the house, in the car with the windows up. I have no allergies, no asthma, and no health problems at all and my lungs are hunky dory.

There was allergies and asthma and everything else before the first smoker picked up a match and tobacco leaves. So... GET OVER IT. Buncha whiners.
 
2002-03-26 12:50:32 PM
As a reformed smoker, I think my opion on this is valuable and needed...

However, me not concentrate good nicotine wanting in blood.

I like food....what now...(THUMP)
 
2002-03-26 12:50:45 PM
I have to break from everyone else, and get flamed (most likely), because I disagree (and I'm a non-smoker).

If you'll notice the boy said that her house reeked, meaning that he was going there, NOT her going to whereever he is in Rome, NY. The judge told this lady that she is not allowed to smoke in her own home or car. I have serious issues with that. Next thing you know, ALL parents who smoke, are divorced, and have kids will be told to quit or not to see the kid.

Now if the judge simply were to have said that it's the kid's choice whether or not he wants to visit, that'd be different. Let her son decide, not the court.

Besides, I love how they call it 'visitation rights'. Both parents have the right to be with the kid, YET the kid has no rights at all. If he hates his mother, and doesn't want to see her, but she has visitation rights, then he still has to see her. The entire system is bullshiat.
 
2002-03-26 12:50:50 PM
Jeeze a pack and a half a day. I wouldn't be so much ashamed of the fact that she's a smoker as I would be that she's a white-trash whore!
 
2002-03-26 12:52:56 PM
wow.. so many issues.. so little time.
 
2002-03-26 12:53:30 PM
Not that I can see the damn story because all of a sudden when I click on a link, an odd browser pops up with no address area or anything. What the hell is that about? Can anyone tell me that addy for this story?
 
2002-03-26 12:53:36 PM
I have a personal story.

I have asthma because my Dad Smoked. My 2nd brother has asthma because my Dad smoked. My Third brother had asthma so bad he nearly died twice. My Dad finally got Double Pnuemonia and decided he liked his lungs so he quit. My 4th brother has no asthma. My brothers asthma has all but cleared up. Mine remains because my mother in law smokes.

I know that Asthma has other causes, but my mind will never be changed about the harm second hand smoke can have on developing lungs. If you smoke, please go outside.
 
2002-03-26 12:53:43 PM
Then don't visit, it's your loss. What if she bred dogs? Would he refuse to go because the house smelled like animals and would the court order her to get rid of them?


It is unclear from the article if the visits are mandated; i.e. it is possible the only reason they visit is the court told the kid he has to see mom X hours a month. I've seen it happen.


The kid might have thought this was a way to not visit, by forcing his mom to choose between him or cigs.


It is very sad that the courts are involved in every little aspect of our lives.

 
2002-03-26 12:54:14 PM
commies
 
2002-03-26 12:54:42 PM
Uh, last time I checked, smoking cigarettes was legal.
Being inconsiderate is not illegal.
But inconveniencing a kid is illegal? Becuase he makes upp lame reasons to not see his Mom?
Kid needs to grow some cajomnes and just say "Mom, I'm thirteen. Hanging out with your Mom at thriteen is just, you know, weird".
Not to make strange
precedent-setting cases for PC motivated intolerance
 
2002-03-26 12:54:44 PM
Blackvampyr:: here, here
 
2002-03-26 12:54:49 PM
Kids can hate their parents for not letting them have their way. That doesn't mean kids shouldnt have to see their parents. If the kid was in danger, sure but if it just stinks i say DEAL WITH IT. I lived with a smoker my whole life and I never hired a lawyer.
 
2002-03-26 12:56:42 PM
i disagree with forcing her to quit. If he's whinging just because the house stinks, then tell him to farking open a window.
 
2002-03-26 12:57:02 PM
I really could care less if people wanted to smoke. I smoked for about 5 years through highschool and college. It was rather difficult to stop cold turkey b/c all of my friends smoked as well so I can see how addicting it is. However, I finally had to quit as every winter I had a horrible cough and aside from that the smell on my clothes was unbearable.

So now that I've stopped the smell and smoke itself seems to bother me much worse than it ever did. I never really
b!tch to people about it but its horrible breathing that tar in now. I don't blame the kid, really.
 
2002-03-26 12:57:10 PM
I hate cigarette smoke, even if it didn't have the potentital to cause cancer and all of that stuff (argue all you want) it still smells like crap. I'd sooner sniff the ass of a skunk.
 
2002-03-26 12:57:18 PM
Just to be clear, I think you have the absolute right to do whatever you want to your own body. Smoke like a fiend, drive nails into your forehead, whatever - fine by me.

Just don't subject kids who have no choice to anything harmful like smoking or fundamentalism.
 
2002-03-26 12:57:45 PM
Simple: Shoot the child.
 
2002-03-26 12:58:03 PM
I like the way you think, Nightsweat.
 
2002-03-26 12:58:15 PM
The judge said he had to look after the health of the child even if it meant overlooking their religious beliefs.

What did their religious beliefs have to do with anything? Jesus wants me to smoke 30 fags a day.
 
2002-03-26 12:58:52 PM
Loki see loki do: Spitting on my shoe may not be illegal, but is inconsiderate and will the spitter punched in the face.
 
2002-03-26 12:59:07 PM
They've already started with offensive cologne...some companies will not let you smoke on their property, in your own car!!!

It's getting ridiculous...watch out fat people, you are next. The PC police have you in their sights.
 
2002-03-26 12:59:59 PM
Hitman7s you said, "I have asthma because my Dad Smoked. My 2nd brother has asthma because my Dad smoked.

So.. can you honestly say that you know for a FACT that you and your brothers wouldn't have had asthma if no one smoked? Seems rather obvious that you have a genetic leaning towards getting asthma if you all got it.

Nothing will change your mind? Okay, no problem.. your opinion is based on emotionalism then as the science on second-hand smoke still isn't concrete. 7 out of 10 studies done on the stuff were inconclusive and the other 3 were done on second-hand smoke blown directly into the face of a non-smoker, less than a couple feet away. No realistic study has concluded ANYTHING damning regarding second-hand smoke. Doesn't mean they won't, but way too many people have bought right into the smoking propaganda. In a scary way.
 
2002-03-26 01:00:27 PM
Moddoctor~

I work for the Minnesota House of Representatives Republican caucus. I run Republican campaigns for extra cash. I am a delagate to my BPOU convention.

Cigarette smoke is dangerous. Kid is right.
 
2002-03-26 01:01:00 PM
Ok I'm a Health Education grad and I applaud the decision. I'm not saying it was the best one, but a good start to repecting people's lives. It wasn't his choice that he was born. It was hers and the father's. So, he should have some rights and respect as to what would be healthy to him and the judge saw that. If I were him, I wouldn't visit her at all and use that in an attempt to get her to quit smoking. Smoking is a choice and she could easily choose to smoke outside or stop, but she shouldn't be allowed to choose to help kill him. Good call.
 
2002-03-26 01:01:19 PM
Maybe the mother should respect her sons wishes and stop smoking around him??? The fact that the court had to step in is the sad part, what a waste of $ and court time!!
Teenage children can be a painin the ass but... my experience as a Lawyer in Family Court is that parents are usally the most self-absorebed, selfish parties that act like children themselves.
Just Stop smoking around your kid if he doesn't like it.

Now off the prepare for the alien attack from the NOI article.....you know the really serious problems we face.....
 
2002-03-26 01:01:52 PM
I wonder if LACK of exposure to a wide variety of air contaminants may result in a variety of respiratory ailments in kids.

Air pollution has decreased in vast majority of urban areas since the early 70's (when the national air quality standards were created) yet childhood asthma is still on the increase according to health experts.

Whats changed?

I think it may habve to do with the amount of time kids spend inside as opposed to out, and in controlled air environments that protect them from exposure (and building resistance/tolerance to common air contaminants/irritants.

Someday we'll encourage our kids to go play in the dirt and eat it- the way kids are wont to do naturally.
 
2002-03-26 01:02:11 PM
I agree with the court here. Its on the same line as parents smoking in the car with their windows up and having kids/babies in the back seat. That crazy! If you are smoking around your kids, you are hurting them! They have no choice in the matter and you should at least be "considerate" of their health if no one else's.
 
2002-03-26 01:02:40 PM
That judge deserves the HERO tag IMO. If the kid doesn't want to breathe second-hand smoke he shouldn't have to. I won't let people smoke around my son.

Before my mother quit smoking, she at least was courteous enough not to smoke in my car if she rode with me.
 
2002-03-26 01:03:29 PM
Dude if the kid has said, "Mommy, please don't smoke around me" and she still does, she doesn't deserve visitation. Go in the farking bad yard you lazy biatch.
 
2002-03-26 01:03:48 PM
Hitman7s, what do you guys think of Jesse? I'm too new here in MN to have an opinion.
 
2002-03-26 01:04:15 PM
Time to go for a smoke....
 
2002-03-26 01:05:21 PM
It might not be right, but its not illegal to smoke. Too many politicans got paid nicely for it to ever become illegal....anytime soon.

So if she's not doing anything illegal, then the judge has no grounds.
 
2002-03-26 01:05:39 PM
And if the kids fat, the custodial parents should be put to death.............
(yes, I am a smoker)
 
2002-03-26 01:05:58 PM
tell the kid to grow up
 
2002-03-26 01:06:28 PM
Sounds like Karmic Hoax gets her information from Phillip Morris.
 
2002-03-26 01:07:10 PM
Maybe the mother should change brands to whatever the kid smokes?
 
2002-03-26 01:07:16 PM
Just make the goddamn cigarettes illegal and be done with it.
We, as a nation, are taxing these addicts for no better reason than it's an easy source of income that inflicts only addicts. Then we restrict the rights of the addicts by not allowing them to use their substance in public places, restaurants, their cars, or now -in this court case- in their own home.
Yet the drug is considered a legal controlled substance.
Quit this nickle and dime shiat and just ban the farking smokes into the blackmarket.
 
2002-03-26 01:07:20 PM
Tobacco companies don't kill people, smoke kills people.
 
2002-03-26 01:07:22 PM
greenbeetle: yes there are grounds. How about endangering the health and welfare of a child? Is that not against the law?
 
2002-03-26 01:07:51 PM
Yebbut, Greenbeetle.. it's also not "illegal" to sound off air horns in your house all day long. But you'll likely be arrested for it, if only because you're (a) p*ssing people off or (2) endangering their hearing. Smoking might not be illegal, but it's like anything else that carries a danger - it should be regulated...
 
2002-03-26 01:08:30 PM
Nightsweat - Noble concept, but totally worthless.

Just don't subject kids who have no choice to anything harmful like smoking or fundamentalism.

But who decides that? To some people stuff like violence on TV is harmful, eating red meat is harmful. To others, doing cocaine is not dangerous at all (in their minds). The problem with your idea is that there will still be people who decide what is and isn't harmful. The children will still be nothing more than a bunch of lemmings, forced to go wherever they are lead.
 
2002-03-26 01:09:27 PM
BTW, USEPA was politically pressured to call second hand smoke a carcinogen. They changed their own rules of significance to allow the determination.

Not that I think second hand smoke is a good thing, but its funny to observe how pressure to end a known health hazard (the damage smoking does to smokers) has been accomplished through deceit and a kind of social pressure that you can observe in the eanti-smoking comments here.

That said, it'll still be a good thing when cigarette smoking is a thing of the past, like spittoons in every saloon.
 
2002-03-26 01:10:16 PM
Briangw~

Here is all you need to know about Governor Ventura.

Novemeber 6, 1998-Minnesota has $6 Billion in surplus.

January 31, 2002 - Minnesota has $2 Billion deficit.

Nice governing.
 
2002-03-26 01:11:07 PM
Blackvampyr - there's always some loon that'll say drinking a glass of plutonium is a really good thing, but I don't think there are any people (well outside Philip Morris or Lorillard) that would say that smoking is good for you.

It's a bad thing to poke nails into your kids forehead, too. Who's going to seriously argue that point?
 
2002-03-26 01:11:34 PM
Kuta that's a pretty stupid assumption. Who gets unbiased information from biased sources with an agenda? Idiotic comment.

Some people are missing the point here.. it doesn't say she has to quit smoking around him, it says she has to quit. Period. That's crap.
 
2002-03-26 01:11:43 PM
Karmic hoax is just plain wrong. Children of smokers are more likely to develop asthma, more likely to develop persistent asthma, more likely to be hospitalized from asthma, more likely to devlop upper respiratory infections and more likely to stink like an ashtray. I know- I'm an asthma physician and researcher.
 
2002-03-26 01:12:07 PM
Honestly, what I think this particular case stems from is Mother vs. Father The father says the kid doesn't want to be around her b/c she smokes too much. The mother says "thats not true, you just don't want him to see me anymore" and refuses to quick on the grounds that she doesn't want to give into the father's demands. She is probably blinded by the fact that she had a bad custody battle over the kid and now instead of looking out for his best interests is instead trying to piss of the dad.

I'd put money on this scenario.
 
2002-03-26 01:12:28 PM
Mysticcat~

I have this cough...
 
2002-03-26 01:13:29 PM
Karmic - you're right. The court shouldn't have the power to force her to quit entirely.
 
2002-03-26 01:14:19 PM
Diesel exhaust has more carcinogens in it than second hand cigarette smoke. Maybe the judge should have ruled that she can't take him near busy streets as well.
 
2002-03-26 01:15:08 PM
Alexandra - How can you say that the judge is a hero by invading this woman's privacy and telling her that she cannot do something that is legal?

The kid is 13. The judge should have just said that the kid could decide if he wanted to see his mother or not. He did not do that. What the judge did do possibly, was violate her rights.

This is nothing more than another example of the government seeking to control our lives.
 
2002-03-26 01:15:14 PM
Hitman7, it seems nice when your state doesn't carry a surplus. Personally I feel as if I'm not paying for services not rendered. =)
 
2002-03-26 01:15:25 PM

Where does it say she has to quit smoking entirely?

The first paragraph of the article:

A judge has ordered a smoker to quit lighting up at her house or in her car if she wants continued visitation rights with her 13-year-old son who has complained about her pack-a-day habit.
 
2002-03-26 01:15:25 PM
The dangers of second hand smoke:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000602.html

Smoking is bad for the smoker. It does stink, and can be an irritant to people who already have asthma. Like pollen, other kinds of smoke, smog, perfume, exhaust, food, cold air, certain kinds of fabric softener, etc.

I have asthma, but I'll be damned if I help share the misery. Exercise will help you far, far more than forcing the 3 people you might encounter on any given day smoking outside to move/put out their cigarettes ever will.
 
2002-03-26 01:15:39 PM
The suregeon general ignores the cold truth that non-smokers die of lung cancer every day.

Not only that, but how about those truth.com commercials? There logic is trenedous.

For example:
Some chemical in cigarettes is also found in urine, thus we shouldn't smoke.

Newsflash: urine has water in it too, thus should we not consume anything with water in it? Give me a break.
 
2002-03-26 01:16:02 PM
Sarah~

If she were running an 18-wheeler in the house, I am sure that this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.
 
2002-03-26 01:17:32 PM
Blackvampyr,

The people who decide that will be similar to the same people who decide who gets an organ transplant or who doesn't. I was told that I may have that opportunity in the future to be one of those people. I had a college exam that asked me to consider 30 people and I could only give out 5 kidneys for transplants. It's not an easy choice, and It's not one that I would want to make. But someone will inevitably decide what will be legit and what isn't. Right now, it's the courts, but it could be the Director of Health and Human Services for whatever state you are in.
 
2002-03-26 01:18:50 PM
Tjr7n~

You are correct. I was trying to sneak in a Ventura shot, and you caught me. Things have actually gotten a lot better around here since he took over, but I like to think that it is because Republicans took the House the same election he won. Ventura is just embarassing.
 
2002-03-26 01:19:17 PM
Yeah, why doesn't she just go outside, lazy biatch. I smoke outside my own house so my kid won't be exposed to it, and so my house won't reek. Or at least go in the bathroom and turn on the fan, it's not that hard.
 
2002-03-26 01:20:50 PM
This thread is filling quicker than an ashtray at a truckstop diner.
 
2002-03-26 01:21:30 PM
If I ever get a healtheducation job here in MN, I have my work cut out for me. More people smoke here in MN, than people in NC, where I'm from.
 
2002-03-26 01:21:38 PM
Karmic Hoax -

So.. can you honestly say that you know for a FACT that you and your brothers wouldn't have had asthma if no one smoked? Seems rather obvious that you have a genetic leaning towards getting asthma if you all got it.

You sound like a Big Tobacco lawyer. Next I expect you to say that there no REAL PROOF cigarettes are addictive.
 
2002-03-26 01:22:28 PM
Mcberry- Smoking increases your risk of lung cancer by tenfold, conservatively. Tobacco accounts for 1/3 of all cancer deaths and 20% of all cardiovascular mortality.
 
2002-03-26 01:24:19 PM
Will the judge forbid the mother from serving fatty foods also? Are fudge-covered Oreos on the Forbidden list?
 
2002-03-26 01:24:35 PM
"Karmic hoax is just plain wrong. Children of smokers are more likely to develop asthma"

Yeah, hospitals are filling right up with those aren't they. Geez, I can't walk a block without tripping over a wheezing child. The smoke isn't harmless but neither is the over-hype.
 
2002-03-26 01:24:52 PM
Exactly. I'm still waiting for a theory to explain why with smoking and air pollution decreasing, we are experiencing increased juvenile asthma.

I think we're breeding people who are ill-prepared for life on the planet.

I mean, Christ, the place is filthy (tsk tsk).
 
2002-03-26 01:25:14 PM
Akudlac~

If fudge covered Oreos were all she was feeding the kid, you bet visitation would be pulled.
 
2002-03-26 01:25:27 PM
(Begin flamebait...)

IMHO parents that smoke around their children, regardless of age need to be biatch-slapped. What the fark is wrong with you? What do you think would happen if I lit up a cigarette, bent over a child's stroller in a shopping mall and put the cigarette in the baby's mouth? The parents would go batshiat on me and hand me my ass! What's the diff though? 2nd hand smoke is even worse!

I can't stand the dumb farks out there that like to cite personal case-study stories... I've heard them all! "My grandma smoked since she was 16 years old and lived healthy till she died at 96!" So what, dumbass? How do you know that if she wouldn't have smoked she may have lived to be 110? Not to mention, how about the 10 examples for your one example where it WASN'T the case and the person DID die an early/ugly death?

The statistics are there -- smoking & 2nd hand smoke are dangerous, no matter how many "My XXXX (insert relative here) lived in a smoke-filled house but turned out OK" stories you tell.

Sure, the woman has a right to smoke in her own home and car. But the judge ruled well... Everyone loves their rights and freedoms. Everyone talks about having rights and freedoms, but no one ever talks about the responsibilities and obligations that come with those rights and freedoms. How about your obligation to keep your child from harm, and your responsibility for your child's health and welfare, ya freak!

(end rant...)
 
2002-03-26 01:25:37 PM
This is crap. Smoking is one of the few things that we have been given permission to do from big brother, not that it is a good thing, but who the f*ck does this judge think he is! Smoking sucks but wtf it is legal, he is thirteen he can't even legally get laid because he is too immature to make decisions legally so fark him go visit your mother you ingrateful sob.
 
2002-03-26 01:26:26 PM
Akudlac,

You choose to eat fatty foods. You don't choose to inhale smoke inside a house (unless you can leave or not come back)
 
2002-03-26 01:26:55 PM
Ok, at the risk of being flamed -
My mom smoked around all 5 of us kids in her house. None of us had asthma, and none of us suffered from any other supposed "smoking related" illnesses. Only one of us kids grew up to smoke - me. When I do smoke I do it away from other people, I don't throw my butts on the ground, and I am vehemently against anti-tobacco people who make judgements without all the evidence.

EPA studies have been based on faulty data regarding second hand smoke.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,47372,00.html
http://www.forces.org
 
2002-03-26 01:27:13 PM
He doesn't want to see his mother because she smokes? Something's wrong with that bond.
 
2002-03-26 01:27:43 PM
Briangw~

Here is all you need to know about Governor Ventura.

Novemeber 6, 1998-Minnesota has $6 Billion in surplus.

January 31, 2002 - Minnesota has $2 Billion deficit.

Nice governing.


WOW! Governor Ventura caused the dot-com crash? I had no idea he has so much power.
 
2002-03-26 01:28:39 PM
Lung cancer was a virtually unheard of before pre rolled cigareetes were available. So the figure is on the thousand fold, not ten.
 
2002-03-26 01:30:32 PM
Digitalchris,

From what I hear, he can do anything he wants. biatch about security, do some wrestling promos, yell at Tom Bernard and KQRS radio station, ignore the media when they ask him questions, and do some cameos whenever he wants.

I'm all for Governors speaking their minds about anything, but from what I hear, he's too boistrous.
 
2002-03-26 01:30:57 PM
Sarah73
Diesel exhaust has more carcinogens in it than second hand cigarette smoke. Maybe the judge should have ruled that she can't take him near busy streets as well.


If she conducted her visitation in the median of a busy highway and if the child complained that it was bothering him, then yeah, I think your sarcastic comment should be taken seriously.
 
2002-03-26 01:32:08 PM
Well Digitalchris, then you have rather idiotic expectations. Everything is addictive to some degree. Whether because of some kind of additive or simply because a person likes something too much. There's a reason why someone said, "everything in moderation..even moderation".

Numberz, that's what you're going to argue? That I didn't quote accurately? Ha! Telling someone to quit smoking in their own home and their own car is a problem. The kid doesn't like the smell, so the judge should have said to get air freshener. The judge didn't say she had to quit smoking AROUND THE KID... get it? Judge said she had to quit smoking.
 
2002-03-26 01:32:09 PM
Chris~

I admitted I was taking a swipe.
 
2002-03-26 01:35:53 PM
smoking is bad
 
2002-03-26 01:36:58 PM
Karmic hoax- Wrong again. Addiction requires physical dependence. So while one may become habituated to something, you cannot become addicted to just anything.
 
2002-03-26 01:38:20 PM
There are way too many breeders out there who inflict all kinds of possible medical problems on their children. This is just another example of targeting smokers. Genetic diseases, hereditary conditions. Diabetes, Crohn's, breast cancer, alcoholism, obesity, etc.. and on and on. Should it then be illegal for people to POSSIBLY expose their future children because of crappy genes? Or will the arguement be that people choose to smoke and those with other medical conditions that they expose their kids have no choice? (Forgetting of course that breeding is always a choice)

I'm just always amazed that people are willing to walk down this path that once started, no one knows who will be next or where it will end.

Then again, I think less people should breed anyway, and if this kid wants to stay at his dad's, let him. Probably an annoying kid.
 
2002-03-26 01:38:51 PM
I'm addicted to Fark ;)
 
2002-03-26 01:39:17 PM
Hell yeas!
 
2002-03-26 01:40:41 PM
I smoked for 7 years (I'm 24) and quit a year before I got pregnant. I don't want my daughter around any smoke, EVER. I don't understand the ignorance some people plea because of addiction.
 
2002-03-26 01:41:17 PM
Karmic Hoax

I see now what you are saying. Too bad we don't have all the facts with which to discuss this. I still think it is only when she is around the kid, but the article reads as if she can't smoke at all in her home.

I've been looking for another article on this subject to clarify some of the "facts" but so far have come up dry.

Full disclosure requires me to say that I used to smoke 3 packs a day and I am now a parent. If I were the mom, I know what I'd do.
 
2002-03-26 01:43:47 PM
Addiction does NOT require physical dependence. Nuh-uh. You're lying! That's not true! Liar!
 
2002-03-26 01:44:15 PM
Not wrong Mysticcat, unless you're just playing semantics. People can get addicted to pain killers, endorphins, yogurt, cigarettes, peanut butter, abusive relationships, washing their hands, etc...

Main Entry: 1ad·dict
Pronunciation: &-'dikt
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin addictus, past participle of addicere to favor, from ad- + dicere to say -- more at DICTION
Date: 1534
1 : to devote or surrender (oneself) to something habitually or obsessively
 
2002-03-26 01:46:12 PM
Alexandra - How can you say that the judge is a hero by invading this woman's privacy and telling her that she cannot do something that is legal?



Easily. The mother obviously doesn't care if her son becomes sick because of second-hand smoke. I don't know about the kid, but second-hand smoke literally turns my stomach, and when I was pregnant it caused me to throw up.

Your rights end when they infringe on the rights of others. Okay, you got your right to smoke--now how about MY right not to breathe in second-hand smoke? Huh?
 
2002-03-26 01:48:38 PM

Another story, same topic:

God I hope this works

Fuel for our fire:

" New York State Supreme Court Justice Robert Julian states in his decision "the best interests of Nicholas dictate that he shall not reside in, visit, or occupy any residence or motor vehicle of anyone in which smoking of any type occurs at any time and that he shall be in a smoke-free environment outside of the home." "
 
2002-03-26 01:49:08 PM
Alexandra, where does it say she is smoking around her kid?
 
2002-03-26 01:50:50 PM
Numberz, sounds to me like everyone on the planet has to quit smoking then or the boy needs to be put in a bubble.
 
2002-03-26 01:51:33 PM
Alexandra - but isn't BREATHING an option?
 
2002-03-26 01:51:57 PM
Ill-Suited for Life on the Planet.
 
2002-03-26 01:54:42 PM
All you need to know about "W"

FY 1999 (Clinton): $9.5 billion surplus
FY 2002 (Bush): $106 billion deficit

Had to be done, even if I don't entirely believe the numbers.
 
2002-03-26 01:55:05 PM
What I don't understand is why this story is SPIFFY. If anything it should be tagged as SAD. I'm getting really tired of all these SPIFFY tags. I doubt that the mother or the boy think the matter is SPIFFY.
 
2002-03-26 01:55:37 PM
Addiction-

Habitual psychological and physiologic dependence on a substance or practice that is beyond voluntary control.


From Stedmans medical dictionary- addiction requires physiologic dependence. This is not just semantics, either. Addiction is a medical term that is bandied about too frequently. It presence or absence has important consequences in the diagnosis and management of many diseases. In your list i see Pain killers(opiates, I assume) and cigarettes(nicotine) as addictive substances. Endorphins are endogenous neurotransmitters and therefor cannot be addicting. Yogurt and peanut butter do not cause physical dependence. Wahing one's hands excessively is a common manifestation of obsessive-compulsive disorder, not an addiction. Failure to leave abusive relationships is not an addiction but there are frequently personality disorders in one or more of the involved people.
 
2002-03-26 01:55:55 PM
johndx
i'm addicted to fark too. is there a 12 step program for fark addiction? not that i'd be ready to join yet...i'm still in denial phase.
 
2002-03-26 01:57:02 PM
This is such bullshiat. You know it constantly amazes me that adults are supposed to respect kid's rights and be tolerant about their choices and all that tender puppy shiat, but Mom's rights are tossed out the window to accomodate this little shiat. When it comes down to it, teen agers are about the most intolerent little assholes on the planet. They think they know it all and their views and wants are more important than anything else. Keep caving in to the little bastards and they're going to grow up into narcisistic, self-involved snotty assholes.
It's probably a good thing the little bastard isn't mine.
I'd tell him fine, stay at your Dad's. Acceptance is supposed to be so important to teenagers, but the truth is they're only concerned about THEIR being accepted. Everyone else must conform to their demands.
Fark that.
 
2002-03-26 01:57:55 PM
Been me, I'd have disowned the kid, always able to get (adopt) another child and the next one may not be such a dork.

After all, your child is your future, and who wants a stupid representative of them selves?

But then, I bought into all that world heading for destruction nonsense and decided not to have children, so my opinion is probably worthless.
 
2002-03-26 01:59:06 PM
Hellifiknow,

Breathing is an option, but it is also an involuntary reflex. You don't have to think about it, you just do it. You can decide on whether you want to breathe in second hand smoke.
 
2002-03-26 01:59:56 PM
Karmic Hoax-

HAHAHAHA

First I said (tongue in cheeck)
Next I expect you to say that there no REAL PROOF cigarettes are addictive.

Which inspired you to say:
Well Digitalchris, then you have rather idiotic expectations. Everything is addictive to some degree. Whether because of some kind of additive or simply because a person likes something too much. There's a reason why someone said, "everything in moderation..even moderation".

Amazingly, in one paragraph, you call my expectations idiotic, and the fulfill them! While you don't literally say what I mentioned, you seriously downplay the addictive nature of cigarettes.

Just because people and the media are misusing the word 'addiction' and applying it to things like video games (it's an OBSESSION not an addiction) doesn't make cigarettes less addictive.

PS The reason someone said "everything in moderation..even moderation" was so he wouldn't feel so bad as he snorted back yet another line of coke.
 
2002-03-26 02:00:23 PM
I think obesity is less healthy then smoking!
LET THE WAR BEGIN!
 
2002-03-26 02:00:24 PM
As a two pack a day smoker, who does not want to quit, I say horray for the judge. Keeping smoke away from non-smokers is just a simple courtesy like bathing. Now, if they will just do something about the perfume addicts.
 
2002-03-26 02:01:10 PM
Briangw - I know. It was (obviously) a poor attempt at humor.
 
2002-03-26 02:01:43 PM
The mother has to teach her kid to smoke, and like it.
Problem solved.

SMOKE MORE, SMOKE MORE OFTEN.

There's too many people on this planet anyway.
 
2002-03-26 02:03:00 PM
03-26-02 01:27:13 PM Hytes Xian
He doesn't want to see his mother because she smokes? Something's wrong with that bond.


exactly.
 
2002-03-26 02:03:42 PM
Screw the health issues. What's wrong with just not smoking because it makes you look like a cheese-eating teenager or a trailer-dwelling white trash loser.

Sure the tobacco companies alway portray this image of smokers being the most beautiful people in the world but have you ever taken a good look around when you're out and about at who the smokers are?

They're almost always the ugliest, stupidest, welfare living sleezebags in town. These people know the health risks associated with smoking. You'd have to either be a total moron or corporate fanboy not to. They know how bad smoking is for them, but look at the lives they lead. They have nothing. They're ugly, their stupid, and they're poor. Each puff of the cigarette brings them one step closer to the sweet release of death and the ends of their pathetic little lives.

The problem is we're not making cigarettes toxic enough, god damnit! We need to load them so chock full of toxins that by the time they finish their first cigarette they're dead. Let these losers have the release they so deeply crave. Let them die with thier flilthy nicotine stained fingers clutching a cigarette butt and their ash-tray smelling mouths curled in a hideous grin as the last hopeful thought that passes through their tiny pea brains as they shuffle off this mortal coil is maybe, just maybe they'll be reincarnated as one of the beautiful people the cigarette companies told them smoking would make them. Then they could live thier lives without the need to suck the sissy sticks.

Plus for every smoker who dies that's one less loser on welfare god damnit! That's one less loser who is going to live long enough to draw his social security. Give them the god damned death they crave. God already screwed them over by making them born ugly idiots, the least we can do, as a caring society, is let them die thinking they're "cool" because they know how to suck things they put in their fat ugly mouths.

Please, don't take their dreams away from them. That's all they have.

This message has been paid for by the good people at Phillip-Morris.

Phillip-Morris: We're so diversified you can't do shiat without giving us money, so suck it up losers!
 
2002-03-26 02:04:36 PM
Rather than making this an ugly thing, why can't the kid be fitted with a giant filter to protect him? This is so simple.
 
2002-03-26 02:05:11 PM
smokers vs. non-smokers.....isn't this as pointless as it gets?!?! lighten up or light up :)

i'm addicted to fark too.

Denial phase, eh? maybe we could come up with our own 12 step program for quitting ;)
 
2002-03-26 02:05:37 PM
03-26-02 12:57:45 PM Goatman264
Simple: Shoot the child.


also exactly.
 
2002-03-26 02:06:00 PM



mmmmmmmmmmm......Smoker's Lung
 
2002-03-26 02:07:02 PM
doofus--

you are absolutely right. i wonder what mine will be like. i think i'll be able to handle him. hopefully.
it could also have alot to do with what he's been fed thru the father and grand parents also. you never get all the torrid details in a situation like this.
 
2002-03-26 02:08:25 PM
Briangw~

Here is all you need to know about Governor Ventura.

Novemeber 6, 1998-Minnesota has $6 Billion in surplus.

January 31, 2002 - Minnesota has $2 Billion deficit.


No, that's not all he needs to know. How do those numbers compare to other states, and averages of the states? How did the state budget change over those 4 years? What was the percentage change in the budget? Where was the money spent? There's a lot more people need to know to understand what's happening with Gov. Ventura. Don't just throw out a few numbers without any context, and expect enlightenment. That's like saying FDR was a bad president because the American mortality rates shot up while he was in office.
 
2002-03-26 02:09:05 PM
Yep. There it is. Thought we'd see the lung picture ALOT earlier though.

I've got nothing.
 
2002-03-26 02:09:43 PM
know what... if someone smokes in a room, and you come in the next day, other than the smell, there's nothing in there detrimental to your health (and the smell isn't detrimental either). A few feet from a smoker in still air is safe to be and breath without any second hand smoke effects. If she's not smoking right next to him, in the house, or in the car, then this complaint is just about smell of smoke, which is horse shiat. This judge is making an idiot call on the new fashionable trend of judicial legislating and mixing it with a dose of currently vogue craptacular arguments.

Give her a week and it will be overturned
 
2002-03-26 02:09:52 PM
Mysticcat -
A voice of reason in the midst of trolls and addicts.

Unfortunately, this is where 5 people chime in "I grew up in a South Carolina truckstop bar and my lungs look just fine."
 
2002-03-26 02:10:46 PM
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/ets/ - EPA claims second hand smoke hurts kids.

http://www.oma.org/phealth/2ndsmoke.htm - Ontario Medical Association claims second hand smoke hurts kids.

http://www.lungusa.org/tobacco/secondhand_factsheet99.html - American Lung Association claims second hand smoke hurts kids

http://tobacco.who.int/page.cfm?pid=43 - World Health Organization, including quote from tobacco industry says it's dangerous to kids

http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/doh/tobacco/part-2.htm United Kingdom Department of Public Health...

http://rex.nci.nih.gov/NCI_MONOGRAPHS/MONO10/MONO10.HTM National Cancer Institute.

All say its bad. Fox News says they're all "flawed". Hmmmm... the network that hired O'Reilly or the entire scientific community? No spin here.
 
2002-03-26 02:11:42 PM
Femme-fatale: Good for you! & Congratualtions (on being able to quit your habbit).

Alexandra: I wish more people had your reaction to smoke. :-) (Not that I revel in the fact that you got ill; quite the contrary, but perhaps if more people threw up after they inhaled, it would clean up the air a bit) :-)
 
2002-03-26 02:12:25 PM
doofus, i think that a lot of my personal freedoms were thrown out the window when I had a kid.
No more showers whenever I feel like it... no more benders on weekends, no dumping my change on the coffee table, no more last-minute anything

it's called good parenting. not everyone has to do it though, so I'm not arguing your point ;)
 
2002-03-26 02:14:17 PM
digitalchris- I did part of my Pulmonology fellowship at a VA hospital and I heard this one all the time, "My uncle Billy Bob smoked filterless Camels til he was 93 and died two months after he quit." This was usually before they wheeled themselves and their oxygen tanks outside to smoke through their tracheostomies.
 
2002-03-26 02:14:48 PM
Mysticcat - Addiction requires physical dependence. So while one may become habituated to something, you cannot become addicted to just anything.

(no sarcasm here) Is this a proper, accepted definition? I am a heavy drinker. When I do not drink, there are no strong cravings, no physical dependence, no withdrawls, etc. So by your definition, I am not addicted, right? (honest question)
 
2002-03-26 02:18:29 PM
Smoking is bad for you. Let's get that out of the way. But, all you smoker bashers had pay pretty close attention to what has happened and not forget that we are all in some way or another a minority. The haves (i know what i mean by that) are simply using an age old tactic to enrich or empower themselves, that being divide and conquer. Single out an activity, a lifestyle, a conviction, etc. and go after it as long as you can get public opinion behind you IF you can benefit from it. If you can't achieve your goal (enrichment, power, etc.) let it slide.
The point being, they're gonna come after you...someday..someday. You damn near can't name an activity, lifestyle choice, etc. that I can't see a group coming after. It took a while (20 yrs or so?) for public opinion to reach the point that it would support the tobbaco suits and that's all it takes. When people don't collectivly rise up with the courage to say "Hey I don't like what they are doing, but it's their choice" then they have set the dogs loose. And you are next...someday....someday.

fat people prepare.
 
2002-03-26 02:18:46 PM
Go check out junkscience.com and read about what a complete bunch of bullshiat 2nd hand smoke is...all you holier than thou's and goody two shoes who want to protect their pweshus baybees....please spare me your goofiness. Catch more cancer by walking outside everyday and being exposed to everyday air, for pete's sake.

I hate the anti-smoking nazi's. As the Dead Kennedys used to say: Nazi punks fark off!
 
2002-03-26 02:19:07 PM
It depends how long you abstain and what your blood etoh level gets to. Some people with alcohol dependence have milder withdrawal that others. Severe withdrawal- the DT's- is actually not that common. But when you look at blood pressure, heart rate, Gastric motility, etc. most alcoholoics will show some signs. BTW- a hangover IS withdrawal.
 
2002-03-26 02:19:39 PM
Digitalchris, are you serious? Because if you are, that is unquestionably sad. I didn't downplay anything, you chose to assume I was in order to support your ridiculous expectations. Should I have used all caps and run at the mouth regarding the dangers of addiction to appease you? C'mon, please start using some common sense... if you actually have any.
 
2002-03-26 02:21:35 PM
Nightsweat: your pro-government dogma is nauseating and dopey. Must be a Dimocrap.
 
2002-03-26 02:22:45 PM
Heheheheheh... Thanks, Ghastly. You've made my day. I haven't laughed so hard in a while. (No, I'm not being sarcastic)...
 
2002-03-26 02:23:15 PM
And you are next...someday....someday.

God help us if they ever declare a "War on Drugs" or something...
 
2002-03-26 02:26:43 PM
why do you suppose the "War on Drugs" is so "successful" hummmmm
 
2002-03-26 02:28:03 PM
Ah, forget it... just outlaw everything so we can get to the point in time where we all dress alike and look alike and don't have to think for ourselves, as the future is portrayed in movies. We can all wear shiny silver suits and be drones of the government.
 
2002-03-26 02:28:12 PM

Smoking beavers, I can live with :)

 
2002-03-26 02:28:45 PM
ModDoctor
the link about smoking on junkscience.com didn't even mention second hand smoke...and it was a FOXNEWS story

The study subjects' lung cancers could easily have been caused by smoking - about 90 percent of lung cancer occurs among smokers - or other lung cancer risk factors
your link ;)
 
2002-03-26 02:29:01 PM
I understand the kids point of view, but going to court over it is insane. I think the 13 year old is acting like a two year old about his being embarrassed about his home because his mother smokes. If I would have acted like that at his age I would have gotten a major ass whippen from both of my parents.
 
2002-03-26 02:32:45 PM
I think it is great that the 13 year old is embarrased that his mom smokes... If kids are thinking like this hopefully it saves them from starting in the first place.
Smoking didn't improve my life, but (admittedly)I did enjoy it while I smoked
 
2002-03-26 02:35:23 PM
Femme_fatale:
Please read the following -
http://www.junkscience.com/feb99/sexton.htm
 
2002-03-26 02:36:55 PM
Rita, it doesn't actually say the kid took Mom to court.. more'n likely, the parents themselves started the court action.. either the dad tried to sue for full custody or the mom tried to say the dad was keeping the kid away from her..
 
2002-03-26 02:38:16 PM
If you want to kill yourself on your own time, go ahead.

Any parent that is smoking in the car with their kids or in their house with the kids is unfit. Suicide is a personal choice, poisoning your kids while you do it is murder.

Screw all you suicidal bastards! Jump off a bridge and be done with it.

I'm tired of stepping on your spent budds, I'm tired of seeing cars in front of me dumping their ashtrays onto the road or flicking it out their window, I'm tired of meeting some hot chick and then discovering her smoking habbit right as I kiss her, I'm tired of the smoke wafting in from the smoking section, I'm tired of the smoke when I'm at the mall (my local mall is an outdoor mall -- stuuuupid).

It's gross, smells awful, and just plain stupid.

Ahhh.. I feel so much better now.
 
2002-03-26 02:40:24 PM
I just quit - one month on Friday. I'm concerned, however, that I'm not feeling sanctimonious yet. Is this something that just happens automatically or is there something I should be doing to make it happen? Thanks.
 
2002-03-26 02:41:20 PM
I quit smoking six weeks ago and thought I was over the hard part. But, strangely enough, after reading this thread, I really, really, really want one.
 
2002-03-26 02:42:27 PM
http://thorax.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/53/5/381

hope this link works. A review from Thorax on ETS
 
2002-03-26 02:42:33 PM
Femme-fatale Good for you on the mommy issue.

As for second hand smoke, the jury is still out. As for smoking and lung cancer, the jury may still be out. Why do non-smokers in NYC have almost the same incidence of lung cancers as smokers in Montana?

I don't think my smoking will ever harm anyone, just offend them.

I aint-a-gonna quit; will die smoking. Yet I give my Scouts an annual no-smoking lecture on the physical, financial and social costs it brings.

The issue to me is not will it harm the boy, but is it appropriate parental behavior.
 
2002-03-26 02:42:34 PM
Hey there's an idea. If your kids are ashamed of you because you're chainsmoking white-trash, beat the living shiat out of them. Then they'll really love you.

I think it's more than just her chainsmoking that makes the kid not want to visit his mother. Let's face it, custody battles almost always favour the mother. The fact that the father got custody of the kid would indicate that the mother must be a screw-up because the courts hate giving custody of kids to the father.

Now the court forces visitation upon the kid. Kid doesn't want to see his mother. The kid knows his mother well enough to know that his mother loves cigarettes more than she loves him so he puts forth the ultimatum, "Either stop smoking or stop forcing me to come and visit you."

Does the mother stop smoking? No.
Does the mother stop forcing the kid to come and visit her? No.

She probably only has these forced visitations just to piss off the kid's father. This is why she doesn't want to be inconvenienced with having to stop smoking while her kid is with her.

She has the choice. Do you love your son, or do you love your cigarettes. She's choosing the cigarettes over her son.

Yes teenagers are obnoxious, whiney little cheese-eaters and this kid is probably no exception. However I know first hand what parents get like when it comes to divorce and custody and using the kids as a weapon. This kid should have the right to not have to visit his mother if he doesn't want to. If he has to use her pathetic addiction to cigarettes to gain his liberation from her then so beit.

I wouldn't want to be forced to visit a chain-smoking skank who would choose a pack of cigarettes over me either.
 
2002-03-26 02:43:56 PM
Smokers get their shiat in a knot because the laws forbid them to smoke in certain public places so as to not pollute non-smokers environment. I'm all in favour of smoking being limited similar to the way alcohol is confined to licensed areas. If I can't openly drink a beer while waiting at the bus stop, then the smokers shouldn't be able to smoke at that same bus stop either.
 
2002-03-26 02:45:18 PM
Ghastly: Very well put :)
 
2002-03-26 02:45:31 PM
Again, most people are missing the point. What's 'wrongful' is NOT synonymous with the the word 'illegal'.

Its not child indangerment because the law doesn't say its illegal to smoke around children. And as long as tobacco companies are allowed to donate in the form of public interest groups, it never will be.

Zchamua, actually it would be illegal to use airhorns in your house all day-if the cops were called. Its called disturbing the peace, plus there are usually city ordinances against it as well.
 
2002-03-26 02:45:45 PM
I feel the same way about snotty little whining brats.
 
2002-03-26 02:46:46 PM
Dustin_00, where does it say ANYTHING about this woman smoking around her kid? The judge has ruled she can't EVER smoke in her own car or home...regardless if the kid is there or not.

Are people here intentionally missing it?
 
2002-03-26 02:47:16 PM
Jookster- you have my vote.
 
2002-03-26 02:47:30 PM
Dustin_00: once again liberals are exposed for their true intolerance of others' views and opinions. What kind of a dope or retard would say that a kid's parents are unfit because they smoke? You are an absolute idiot.
 
2002-03-26 02:49:37 PM
Timefactor:
nice.

Dustin_00:
Learn to live with things you don't like. They will be all around you for the rest of your life, unless you like the idea of all of us doing everything exactly the same for fear of lawsuits. How about the annoying people who stand to close to me when they talk, or cook stinky crap in the office microwave (cabbage... chitlins, farking chitlins)... yeah, I just turn the other cheek and hate it quietly, then i go home, have a beer, and mention it to my wife while we chat about our days. smelling smoke from far away isn't going to hurt you in the least. Getting it breathed out directly onto you might, but just don't stand next to a smoker then.
 
2002-03-26 02:50:17 PM
ghastly--

i think there's most likely a lot of truth in your statement.
 
2002-03-26 02:50:33 PM
Ghastly That's ridiculous. She is NOT choosing cigarettes over her kid. The judge didn't say to not smoke around the kid. How many times do I have to say this? When the kid isn't around the mother should be allowed to do anything she wants that is legal. Get drunk, smoke, screw 6 men at once... all in her living room.

The judge has NO right to dictate what she does when alone and in her own house.
 
2002-03-26 02:55:19 PM
Judge deserves a damn HERO tag
 
2002-03-26 02:55:47 PM
Jookster and Eat More Possum: more socialists!
Perhaps you should have to register to take a piss. Would you like that? Freedom-hating pukes.
 
2002-03-26 02:56:27 PM
Karmic - Yes, that is a problem. I smoke in my home (only in the computer room) and car. I make the payments and I can use them as I want. We do get out the 'carpet fresh' and 'lysol' before the kids or lady friend comes over.

As a smoker I find stale smoke offensive and even sit in non-smoking areas of restaurants. But still, it seems smokers are getting blasted for using what still is a legal product; in fact, one still subsidized with you tax dollars.
 
2002-03-26 02:56:52 PM
"They know how bad smoking is for them, but look at the lives they lead. They have nothing. They're ugly, their stupid, and they're poor."

What a 100% US Grade A Certified JACKASS. Yeah, all smokers are like this. You may have some kind of point in there but it's lost in your ignorance.
 
2002-03-26 03:00:25 PM
Note to self: John Kenneth Fisher believes it is acceptable for a Judge to dictate what people do in the privacy of their own homes while alone.

Nothing else worth knowing there.
 
2002-03-26 03:00:28 PM
ModDoctor: I am entranced by your witty and well reasoned retorts. Please, let me bind them and put them on a shelf with my volumes of Wilde and Parker.

Plblblblbpbpbpbphhtt!
 
2002-03-26 03:02:24 PM
The judge did not ban her from smoking in her house or car. The judge simply put the choice before her. She can choose to continue forcing her kid to come visit her, or she can choose to continue smoking in her house and car.

If she wants to force her kid to come visit her then she cannot continue smoking in her house and car.

The kid doesn't want to visit her. Whatever his reasons he has a right not to be forced to visit his mother. The mother has court ordered visitation rights. She now has the choice to keep those rights or to smoke. She can still smoke if she chooses. She can still smoke and invite the kid to come over to visit her if she chooses. She cannot still smoke and force the kid to come and visit her against his will.
 
2002-03-26 03:04:42 PM
Hey Meshman. I'll PayPal you a quarter so you can go buy yourself a sense of humour.
 
2002-03-26 03:07:34 PM
Sounds to me like there is some other issue at play here and that smoking was the easiest target. Because it's really just too ridiculous. Could be that the kid really just doesn't like his mother's new boyfriend or she doesn't let him play video games when he wants, and he whined to his dad about whatever it was, and the ex-husband thought up the idea of the smoking attack because he likes to mess with his former wife.
 
2002-03-26 03:09:34 PM
Ghastly.. I smoke. I'm rich, I have a great job, and I contribute to society on a daily basis. I would love for you to spout your offensive assumptions in the real world.

I do not appreciate your generalizations regarding smokers. It seems you have some sort of hidden agenda, or perhaps some sort of mental conflict. Has a smoker hurt you in the past?
 
2002-03-26 03:10:43 PM
Okay, smoking is a dirty unhealthy habit. That's a given.
But, man! THAT does not give the honorable judge stupidiot the happy power to take a big ol' powergrabbing fatty dump on parental rights. something something whatever.
 
2002-03-26 03:11:40 PM
Jookster: Agreed. A cop sees me driving down the road smoking a cigarette -- no big deal... Yet, copy sees me takin' a swig out of my 40, there's hell to pay. Both are drugs -- difference is, one's more legal than the other. Yes, I realize alcohol impairs ability to drive, whereas smoking doesn't have the same effect... And yet, how many times have I been stuck in traffic behind some dipshiat with a cigarette in one hand, cell phone in the other, car full of smoke that it looks like a Cheech & Chong film, juggling a cup of coffee in their knees, and yelling at the kids in the back.
 
2002-03-26 03:11:47 PM
My psych meds should be kicking in any minute now.
 
2002-03-26 03:12:23 PM
Ghastly, most people do not share your "sense of humor". Insulting and stereotyping people is not humerous. It is ignorant. Perhaps you are the one that should purchase a sense of humor? Or at least take the one you have got now and throw it in the garbage, because it stinks.
 
2002-03-26 03:13:47 PM
Nightsweat: your name is gross.

Also, check junkscience.com, for some information from folks who don't have an axe to grind like the anti-smoking nazi's.
 
2002-03-26 03:14:44 PM
Off topic, but I have to say the Popo Bawa, the sodomizing ghost of Zanzibar may be the best name on Fark.
 
2002-03-26 03:17:03 PM
We should do a side-by-side comparrison of related deaths by these three items:

Cigarettes
Guns
Alcohol
Marijuana

Let's put a ban on the item that kills the most people in a year. And start jailing people who are found to be in possession of that item.
 
2002-03-26 03:17:15 PM
Question to the Canadian contingent: are all of you socialists who enjoy being nannied by your government? And quit comparing cigarettes and alcohol....what a retarded argument....10 cigarettes won't impair my ability to handle an automobile, dumbass.
 
2002-03-26 03:18:08 PM
You anti-smokers posting here sound like brownshirts spewing hateful anti-Jewish rhetoric. Nazi Germany loved idiots like you, who would turn in their own parents to the government if ordered to do so.

Do the few of us left who value freedom over whining a favor and stay in your smoke-free caves, Lifestyle Nazis.
 
2002-03-26 03:18:21 PM
I've been stuck behind many a dipshiat in traffic.. I'd rather outlaw dipshiats and glaring lack of common sense rather than outlaw cell phones, kids in the backseat, eating fries...

If you lack the ability to do more than one thing at a time while driving, recognize your shortcomings and knock it off.
 
2002-03-26 03:18:22 PM
 
2002-03-26 03:18:37 PM
Careful- we're about to invoke Godwin's Law

http://www.godwinslaw.com/
 
2002-03-26 03:18:46 PM
Popo Bawa: Watch out, he'll steal your mojo.
Very good name!
 
2002-03-26 03:19:16 PM
Ghastly- or anyone else-

Let's subsitute the noun "cigarettes" with, say, anything else legal - and see if the "choice" given to the mother holds any water.

I'm gonna try substiting the word "cigarettes" with "radishes"

Mother must give up radishes in order to maintain custody rights.

Sounds like bs to me. Sounds like the judge is overstepping his juristiction.
 
2002-03-26 03:20:12 PM
Hmmm... I imagine the conversation between the kid an his mother went something like this?

Kid: Mom. It reeks in here

Mom: That's cause my cigarette's lit.

Kid: But mom, it's all smokey. And my clothes reek and I can't breathe.

Mom: Oh fine. Here, I'll open the car window a crack.

Kid: But mom, why can't you just stop smoking?

Mom: Because. Mommy's addicted, honey. Mommy has to have her morning cigarette.

Kid: Hack! Hack! Wheeze!

Mom: Don't worry, honey. Mommy loves you!

How dysfunctional is THAT? It doesn't look too good when your kid has more horse sense than you do. The whole scene plays like something out of the Simpsons.
 
2002-03-26 03:20:48 PM
"I wouldn't want to be forced to visit a chain-smoking skank who would choose a pack of cigarettes over me either."

HAHAHA!! Oh, that was hilarious! Glad your not serious.
 
2002-03-26 03:20:59 PM
Soupgoblin, we absolutely can NOT outlaw things that kill people. Cripes, just think of the over-population problems that would result from that. People MUST die from something.

And you forgot: cars, knives, axes, boats, airplanes, swimming pools, blah blah farking blah.
 
2002-03-26 03:21:42 PM
Nightsweat grosses ModDoctor out. One point for the cause!

Junkscience.com is run by Lobbyist (and not Star Trek destroyer) Rick Berman, the head of a public affairs firm, Berman and Company which represents the tobacco industry.

Among his other "accomplishments" is the establishment of the Guest Choice network which was set up using money entirely from tobacco companies.

I would say that junkscience.com has a LOT more to gain from lying about tobacco than the World Health Organization and the other orgs mentioned previously.

More information about the funding for junkscience.com is available on PR Watch - http://www.prwatch.org/improp/ddam.html#funding.
 
2002-03-26 03:22:50 PM
The judge is probably an ex-smoker, they're the worst kind of non-smoker.
 
2002-03-26 03:23:15 PM
It could have been worse. The judge could have ordered her to quit smoking pot around the little bugger.
 
2002-03-26 03:25:05 PM
What's pathetic is that 2 judges in the past ruled that a woman addicted to drugs and alcohol should have custody of her children and live in her father's home while he is a convicted child molester...even though a stable, married, well-employed couple was the foster parent of one child and wanted to adopt. What happened? The kid was murdered by the mother's boyfriend. (was on Dateline last week)

And people are outraged over a legal activity such as smoking, when the mother is ALONE?

C'mon you brainwashed anti-smoking emotionalists... focus on something more important and actually illegal.
 
2002-03-26 03:25:52 PM
Look, everything is bad for you, it's just a matter of choosing what cancer you want. Do you know if you go tanning (at a tanning place) just 4 times, it increases your risk of skin cancer by 79%? Just about everything you do increases your chance of getting some form of cancer. I smoke because I enjoy it. Not only that, do you know that smoking decreases BAC when you're drinking, so in that regard it is actually healthy! It could mean the difference between killing someone in a drunk driving accident and not. So smoking could actually SAVE lives too. Also, if your boss smokes you can then go outside and smoke with him and help yourself out in the company. Bottom line, I hate those punks from truth.com
 
2002-03-26 03:26:17 PM
Numberz: your attempt to bolster the dogma of second-hand smoke receives little credence from me. The site you quoted from is a far-left media organization based in Madison, Wisconsin, which is the Beserkley of the Midwest.

I don't consider libertarians a threat to the country. Besides, the findings on junkscience.com are from journals and scientific papers, not from Mr. Milloy.
 
2002-03-26 03:26:34 PM
Off topic- one of the funniest books I ever read- Christoper Buckley's "Thank you for Smoking"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060976624/qid=1017174280/sr=8-2/ref=sr _8_71_2/104-5700601-7064723
 
2002-03-26 03:27:05 PM
03-26-02 12:49:46 PM Karmic Hoax
There was allergies and asthma and everything else before the first smoker picked up a match and tobacco leaves. So... GET OVER IT. Buncha whiners.

Maybe the tobacco affected your ability to use the english language properly. Such a wonderful non-argument.

"Smoking around your kids can make them sick."
"People got sick before smoking so HA!"

Good job, jackass.

03-26-02 12:54:42 PM Loki see loki do
But inconveniencing a kid is illegal?

I love how 'exposing your child to carcinogens' becomes 'inconveniencing your child'.

And your quibles of the 'clean' environments causing allergies-- they're talking about houses where they have hepa filters everywhere and there isn't even any dust.

03-26-02 01:11:34 PM Karmic Hoax
Some people are missing the point here.. it doesn't say she has to quit smoking around him, it says she has to quit. Period. That's crap.

Wrong. It says she has to stop smoking in her house and car because the kid will have to live in the former and travel around in the latter. It says that in the second line of the article, damnit. Learn to read.

03-26-02 01:15:39 PM Mcberry
The suregeon general ignores the cold truth that non-smokers die of lung cancer every day.

I hadn't realized that there were people whose hearts stopped even if they didn't get shot in the chest. Just because smoking doesn't cause 100% of lung cancer-related deaths doesn't mean it isn't a factor.

03-26-02 01:24:19 PM Akudlac
Will the judge forbid the mother from serving fatty foods also? Are fudge-covered Oreos on the Forbidden list?

Flawed argument. Foods that are high in fat or high in sugar are not bad in themselves. Excess is what is bad with that stuff.

With tobacco, on the other hand, there is no 'good' level. Even fatty foods give you energy. Smoking 'Lite' cigs or only a bit won't do anything good for you.

03-26-02 01:25:37 PM Bluenovaman
fark him go visit your mother you ingrateful sob.

Oh, and so if she were putting arsenic in his food it would still be OK? Seeing how you don't know how to construct a sentence, why would I expect better, though? He doesn't like breathing smoke from her cancer sticks. this makes him ungreatful? Yeah, and I guess people who are bing mugged are ungreatful for all the mugger is doing for them...

03-26-02 01:32:08 PM Karmic Hoax
Telling someone to quit smoking in their own home and their own car is a problem. The kid doesn't like the smell, so the judge should have said to get air freshener. The judge didn't say she had to quit smoking AROUND THE KID... get it? Judge said she had to quit smoking.

Oh! Someone spread the word! Air fresheners nullify the harmful effects of smoke!

And you still haven't read the article properly.

03-26-02 02:28:03 PM Karmic Hoax
Ah, forget it... just outlaw everything so we can get to the point in time where we all dress alike and look alike and don't have to think for ourselves, as the future is portrayed in movies. We can all wear shiny silver suits and be drones of the government.

Ah, yes- the rugged individuality that is embodied in smoking. Ff you don't have the right you give me cancer then what are these laws good for, anyway? It's becoming a brave new world because a woman can't pollute the space her child is forced to live in with carcinogens any more.
 
2002-03-26 03:28:23 PM
I think parents that do smoke around their children are pathetic. No question of that. I have a real problem with our government telling us we can't smoke in our house though. This is a very disturbing ruling from a privacy standpoint.
 
2002-03-26 03:28:46 PM
My parents smoked around me when I was growing up and I'm ok, so second hand smoke couldn't possibly harm this kid. What's next, are we going to start holding all unfit parents accountable for what happens to their kids? That's crazy, everyone knows tv, movies, music and videogames are the ones responsible for them.
 
2002-03-26 03:28:49 PM
Nightsweat: Yeah, PR Watch has no ideological axe to grind up in commie-lovin' Madison, Wisconsin.
 
2002-03-26 03:31:20 PM
ModDoctor proved Godwin's Law much earlier in the discussion.
 
2002-03-26 03:32:41 PM
MurderBall- testimonials are the worstr kind of "junk Science". I actually do have to agree with ModDoctor to a point, though. Environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) has been clearly linked to increased development of asthma and poor asthma control in adults and kids. The link between lung cancer and emphysema is far more murky, however. Just telling it like it is.
 
2002-03-26 03:33:40 PM
ModDoc, I really don't remember the Soviet tanks rolling down from the land of double-krausening. Isn't accusing people of being commie lovers the M.O. of another Wisconson institution - Joe McCarthy?
 
2002-03-26 03:36:34 PM
The site you quoted from is a far-left media organization based in Madison, Wisconsin, which is the Beserkley of the Midwest.

Do you mean a guy who Philip Morris used to pay to influence Congress on their behalf has suddenly become objective with regards to the research he used to fight against? Or the entire premise that the cigarrete industry isn't doing all of the things listed in the article? (I like "the Whitecoat Project" myself, reminds me of those makeup commercials where the supermodels wear lab coats to look like they know what they're talking about)

Finally, I'm not looking to gain credence with you, just trying to show that there is more than one side to a story.
Just because it's on a fancy web page doesn't make it true, on any side of an issue.
PS: I apologize for my bad HTML earlier...
 
2002-03-26 03:37:01 PM
Guta: ooooh, you got me, you big tough liberal you?
 
43
2002-03-26 03:37:46 PM
you guys remember when we were kids?

my brothers and i played on playgrounds with metal bars sticking up through the concrete.
we never got sick because we spent so much time in the germ infested outdoors building up our immunities.
my mom would spank the hell out of us if we misbehaved in public with onlookers saying "good job, kid deserved it".

Kids today are wusses.

Who knows what the dynamic is between that family that lead to this...I just think having the court settle it is such a cop out.
Next time someone leaves the toilet seat up in my house...I'm taking their ass to court.
 
2002-03-26 03:39:16 PM
ModDoctor:

Speaking of Junk Science, your "proof" that second-hand smoke is safe comes from an opinion from an economics professor written in a business magazine that describes a district court ruling stemming from a legal flaw, based on two unreferenced journal articles (I'd be interested to see the political science behind those articles).

Huh?

From what I see, there is overwhelming evidence that second-hand smoke is bad for you. And there are probably quite a few stuides, published in reputable journals, that have been funded by people whose best interests are the welfare of tobacco companies' profits. Guess what they say...
 
2002-03-26 03:40:53 PM
The Dark One
Oh! Someone spread the word! Air fresheners nullify the harmful effects of smoke!

No, but it can mask the stench left behind - after the smoke has cleared.
And that's this kid's only complaint. It stinks. He's not allergic to the smell, he just doesn't like it. And that's legit - but not for a judge to intervene over.
If he were allergic to the smell of old cigarettes, then perhaps there would be a medical reason tied to the judges ruling (I could imagine a parent having to give up a pet or a plant in order to maintain custody rights for these reasons) - but it was merely a complaint - and the judge could have just asked that the woman stop smoking in her house and car while the child was visiting - and not have overstepped his bounds as a judge.
 
2002-03-26 03:41:06 PM
Nightsweat: Oh my, a Chicago liberal, what a shocker.

If you are deluded enough to deny that Madison, WisconsIn, (I, not O) if generally far left on most political issues, I can't help you anymore. You'll have to see a new Doctor.

I'm certain Gus Hall has a couple of pals living there :)
 
2002-03-26 03:41:30 PM
The Dark One: Well said. Now everybody can shut up now, the thread is over.

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law. I am like Hitler, in regard to having the desire to silence you all immediately.
 
2002-03-26 03:42:36 PM
It's the pleasure/pain principle. Everybody, and I mean everybody, has a 'picture' in their head of what is pleasureable and painful. Smokers have a picture of it bringing pleasure. It whirs away in your sub-conscious, repeating the picture over and over again, saying, "Do it, do it, you'll feel better."

You can substitute any 'picture' of the things you think bring you pleasure: heroin, beastiality, cotton candy, whatever...what turns on one person may turn off another.

Seriously, if you're thinking of quitting anything, that's the "programming" you have to 'interrupt'. Use your conscious mind to re-program your sub-conscious. By the way, good luck with it...stick to it and dig it out.

The people to be aware of are the ones who are nasty, vitriolic, closet 'haters'. Just listen to what they say and how they say it. Ghouls...nasty little sub-consciouses masquearding as 'friendly helpfuls' and watchdogs.
 
2002-03-26 03:42:46 PM
By the way, in the People's Republic of Boulder, smoking is not allowed in any public building, unless in an enclosed area. It makes bars and restauants quite lovely.
 
2002-03-26 03:43:09 PM
Erm, I guess I suck. Sir Chevron invoked Godwin before me.
 
2002-03-26 03:43:52 PM
The Dark One:
As long as she isn't smoking in the same room as the kid, or if it's a small house, in the house, while he is actually there, or smoking in the car while he is in it, then there is no problem. The only thing left is smell, which however you may not like it, is no reason to remove visitation from a parent. Next step would be "I don't like daddy's b.o., I wanna live with mommy".
Second hand smoke is potentially dangerous as long as you are being breathed out upon with smoke, or within a few feet of the smoker. It's certainly not dangerous an hour later. That said, there is no smoking in my house. But since it's mine, I get to choose that.
 
2002-03-26 03:45:17 PM
This thread, in a way, reminds me of Clerks. Damn good movie!
 
2002-03-26 03:47:12 PM
Dark One:
So, because our water has trace amounts of arsenic and sub-clinical levels of literally thousands of potentially harmless contaminants we should avoid the stuff altogether?

That's like saying there is no level of pollution or contamination that our bodies can effectively exist in - something I simply do not agree with. We just aren't that poorly suited for the world.

I think you're missing something here - the kid is biatching about odor, and in general being a 13 year old kid who does not want to hang out with his Mommy anymore. The smoking thing is an excuse. The judge seems to have made this a personal anti-smoking issue. Awfully hard to tell by a rather short article.

Ah well, I'm done.
 
2002-03-26 03:48:29 PM
I suppose I could comment on the blathering bullshiat just spouted by The Dark One, but alas, evidently I do not know how to read or make use of the English language.

I am so sad that I have failed to impress such an intellectual giant as The Dark One, my life is no longer worth living! Waah!

I beg of you The Dark One, please enlighten me about the dangers of being in a car 3 days AFTER anyone has actually smoked in it. (3 is a random number, but since you assert that it's just plain dangerous to be in a car or home that had smoke in it at all period, I just want you to support that laughable opinion)

Oh, and yes, this is really typed in Farsi, it only looks like English.

::snicker:: what a maroon.
 
2002-03-26 03:53:17 PM
Just a comment that is completely unrelated to the topic... but I have never called a female a 'jackass' before. Only men. Hmm.
 
2002-03-26 03:57:07 PM
You caught me on a typo Mod Doctor, I do know how to spell Wisconsin. Am I a Chicago liberal? Hell, yeah. Card carrying member of the ACLU. I sent them my $300 Bush stole from my tax refund check. I'm in favor of the Constitution, how 'bout you?

I have no idea who Gus Hall is.

I didn't deny Madison was liberal. I did imply you're using ad hominem attacks instead of addressing the indefensibility of your position and the outing of your primary source as a shill of the tobacco companies.
 
2002-03-26 03:57:39 PM
03-26-02 02:42:33 PM Eat More Possum
Why do non-smokers in NYC have almost the same incidence of lung cancers as smokers in Montana?

And what about the smokers of Montana compared to the non-smokers in Montana?

03-26-02 02:46:46 PM Karmic Hoax
Dustin_00, where does it say ANYTHING about this woman smoking around her kid? The judge has ruled she can't EVER smoke in her own car or home...regardless if the kid is there or not.

Are people here intentionally missing it?


The article would have mentioned it if the woman or her lawyer had said that she didn't smoke around the kid.

03-26-02 02:47:30 PM ModDoctor
Dustin_00: once again liberals are exposed for their true intolerance of others' views and opinions. What kind of a dope or retard would say that a kid's parents are unfit because they smoke? You are an absolute idiot.

Uh oh. The mom can't give the kid a better chance at getting cancer, or it's obviously the fault of the Liberals. SAVE US, Mr. O'REILLY!

03-26-02 02:49:37 PM NaTaX
Learn to live with things you don't like.

This means that the kid has to put up with her smoking, right?
Of course, if you actually thought it out, your argument could mean that she has to put up with the court ruling.
And you'd have to put up with it if someone started piping their car exhaust into your house?
Okey Dokey, then.

03-26-02 02:56:27 PM Eat More Possum
But still, it seems smokers are getting blasted for using what still is a legal product

Rat poison is legal. It doesn't mean you can spread it around for other people to unwillingly breathe in.

03-26-02 03:13:47 PM ModDoctor
Also, check junkscience.com, for some information from folks who don't have an axe to grind like the anti-smoking nazi's.


So they only have an axe to grind like anti-anti-smokers?
"Oh, because they don't say what I'm doing is wrong means that they have no agenda."

03-26-02 03:19:16 PM Rtreynor
Let's subsitute the noun "cigarettes" with, say, anything else legal - and see if the "choice" given to the mother holds any water.

I'm gonna try substiting the word "cigarettes" with "radishes"


Radishes didn't increase the risk of the kid getting cancer, lung disease and heart problems last time I checked.

03-26-02 03:48:29 PM Karmic Hoax
I am so sad that I have failed to impress such an intellectual giant as The Dark One, my life is no longer worth living! Waah!

...and so instead of showing why he's wrong, I'll just try to look smart by pretending to be hurt by his comments! Yeah!

Where in the article does it say she stops when he's over at her place. My friend's parents smoke and it also stinks when they're smoking-- not just after. Why did you think that she stops when the kid is over?
 
2002-03-26 03:59:11 PM
I bet if the mother knew how much turmoil she was creating in this thread, she would quit. Or drown the boy.
 
2002-03-26 03:59:50 PM
Yo moddoctor,

I'm a canadian living in a city where smoking in bars and restaurants is banned.. and while I can understand the frustration of banning a legal product, i must say, it's damn nice to be able to go out to a bar for an evening and not wake up the next morning with a sore throat and stinking to high heaven from being around the smoke of a thousand cigarettes. Just an observation..
 
2002-03-26 04:00:50 PM
There's a question mark missing near the bottom of my last post. Edit function to the rescue!
 
2002-03-26 04:02:07 PM
The plain fact of the matter is smoking is legal. It is everyones right to smoke if they want to. Personally I do not but I would not tell anyone they couldn't.
 
2002-03-26 04:02:21 PM
My parents got divorced when I was 7, 30 years ago.
My dad would pick my brother and I up for the weekend and would even then smoke outside because he knows we didn't like the smell in his apartment.
If you love and appreciate your kids as well as wanting your kids to respect you, don't smoke in front of them. I bet they will love you more for it.
 
43
2002-03-26 04:03:01 PM
hey Dark One....why dont you change your name to Long-Ass Replying One?
 
2002-03-26 04:04:26 PM
Impressive, The Dark One is a psychic on par with John Edward! The Dark One is telling me my own motivations and intent!!

You enjoy copying and pasting, show me where I said the woman absolutely does not smoke around her kid. I stated the article didn't say either way, but that the rabid anti-smoking crowd didn't want to acknowledge that.

You might also want to note that this kid isn't biatching about his health, he isn't allergic, he doesn't have asthma, has NO medical issues related to smoking at all... this is about him not liking an ODOR.

PC hype, anti-smoking propaganda, evasion and everything else at your disposal isn't going to change the fact that this case isn't anything about what you're trying to push. He didn't like the ODOR of something in his mother's house & car.
 
2002-03-26 04:05:33 PM
Bars make a killing off cig sales. Does the Government re-emburse the bars for lost income?
 
2002-03-26 04:07:46 PM
Zchamu, I understand how you feel... I'm mighty tired of rude people sneezing and coughing in public and spewing germs into the air, causing me to wake up the next morning with the flu and sore throat.

Is there a way to make it illegal to sneeze & cough in public, or at least outlaw those who don't have the manners enough to cover their damn mouths or use a tissue?

I don't have problems with non-smoking establishments.. but owners of restaurants and bars should be allowed the option of making their place all smoking, all non-smoking, or a mix. People could then choose to go where there was smoking or no smoking. But I guess that just makes too much SENSE.
 
2002-03-26 04:08:34 PM
I think it would be OK for her to smoke if she were a lesbian.
 
2002-03-26 04:11:34 PM
Red99--LOL where did that come from?
 
2002-03-26 04:13:13 PM
Yo Karmic,

When the bylaw was introduced, one bar came up with what I thought was a really good idea. They built a smoking room, complete with tables and chairs - same ambience as the rest of the bar, but just no service. You could go have your fag, bring your drinks/food in the room etc. and not have to freeze your butt off outside. So it kept the smoke contained, which I guess is the whole point of the idea. But they got busted by the bylaw cops. Which I thought was totally dumbass.
 
2002-03-26 04:13:31 PM
Since you love my quotes so much, he's another:

03-26-02 04:07:46 PM Karmic Hoax
Zchamu, I understand how you feel... I'm mighty tired of rude people sneezing and coughing in public and spewing germs into the air, causing me to wake up the next morning with the flu and sore throat.

Is there a way to make it illegal to sneeze & cough in public, or at least outlaw those who don't have the manners enough to cover their damn mouths or use a tissue?


Except that people don't buy the flu at a store and willingly take it-- at least the last time I checked. People are contagious when symptoms are usually noticeable. Can you tell when someone is smoking? Hmm.
 
2002-03-26 04:15:32 PM
How appropriate.

Flame war in the smoking thread.

hehe
 
2002-03-26 04:18:14 PM
Argh! Non - smokers have no heart. Surely if they really cared that much for all the smokers health they would spend some of the crap-ton of money they get from taxes and settlements, on helping existing smokers quit ... if its so dangerous. And I don't mean by treating the symptoms like cancer ... I mean actually helping people quit.

Ah but what am I thinking? If they helped the smokers quit then all the poor states, and cities would miss out on their fat pay checks.

Instead they just focus on not creating new smokers, with awful commercials with great input like "Tobacco is whacko if you're a teen". Holy crap! Do they have a team of monkeys working for them or what? I may not be a teen but I know that commercial could only be counterproductive for me.
 
2002-03-26 04:18:19 PM
03-26-02 04:12:53 PM HappyDaddy
Excuse me for saying so but please READ THE ARTICLE before opening your cyberpiehole. Mom does not smoke when the kid is around. The kid says that he is embarrassed because she smokes and that he doesn't like the residual odor.

I've read it.

A judge has ordered a smoker to quit lighting up at her house or in her car if she wants continued visitation rights with her 13-year-old son who has complained about her pack-a-day habit.

Nicholas' law guardian, William Koslosky, of Utica, said the teen is in excellent health but told him last August that he didn't want to visit his mother because she smokes.

"Nicholas was ashamed that his mother was a smoker," the lawyer said. "He said his mother's house reeked."


Does it say, "The kid complained about the residual smell of tobacco smoke"? No. A house can still reek when the person smokes when you're there.

And no, the article doesn't say she smoked when the kid was around. Wouldn't you think the lawyer or the mother would have metioned that she didn't smoke around the kid if that was the case?
 
2002-03-26 04:21:12 PM
Karmic Hoax:
No, the point is if you smoke in a car or house, it reaks of smoke. Period. It can cause asthema, and a dozen other problems.

NaTaX:
I have friends with Asthema that will end up in an emergency room if they get on an elevator with somebody that just stepped out for a smoke. If you smoke, your clothes smell, your hair smells, and it can kill. I get migrains and nasal infections if I'm around it for more than a minute.

I don't care about people's annoying habbits, I *do* care when what you do is killing me and others.

Like I said, go jump off a bridge and spare the rest of us. This isn't about politics, it's about my ability to be able to breath.
 
2002-03-26 04:22:04 PM
Mustard,

Many provinces are kicking in a hell of a lot of money to stop-smoking programs. But they'll only pay for them once - reason being is, if you take the program and still smoke, then it's a waste of money to try again..
 
2002-03-26 04:26:31 PM
HappyDaddy

If that's the case, then fine. But at least mention the fact that you aren't just pulling the information out of your ass. Say it was on a TV interview and maybe I might be more willing to listen. If you're getting your information from some article other than the one this thing is talking about, then mention it!
 
2002-03-26 04:36:34 PM
Ah! I get it now The Dark One! It's okay to make others sick as long as you don't know you're doing it!! Thank you for the clarification!

I don't mean this in a terribly bad way Dustin_00, but you are ignorant. The ODOR of 3 day old smoke or year old smoke doesn't cause anything. Tell me you really don't believe that.
 
2002-03-26 04:37:26 PM
Is it OK to make others sick when you know you're doing it?
 
2002-03-26 04:38:32 PM
"I have friends with Asthema that will end up in an emergency room if they get on an elevator with somebody that just stepped out for a smoke. If you smoke, your clothes smell, your hair smells, and it can kill. I get migrains and nasal infections if I'm around it for more than a minute.'

Keep your inhaler close, kid, its a dirty smelly world. Your friends will be a little better when they grow up if they spend more time outside.

PS, just because something smells, it doesn't mean its gonna kill you. No study has ever asserted that the residual odor from smoke, rather than actual second hand smoke, is harmful.
 
2002-03-26 04:39:45 PM
Zchamu wrote:
"Is it OK to make others sick when you know you're doing it?"

Only if you're doing it by posting to Fark.
 
2002-03-26 04:40:00 PM
I remember back in the day when they did commercials about "smoking is glamorous" and they would have all these crazy sounding people saying stuff.. what was one? Let me think.. umm.. A woman that sounded like a man because her throat was shot from smoking.. anyway, we all thought they were hilarious. I have videotape of some parties of people imitating the ads -- and then smoking of course. Also, these videotapes include underage drinking.. oh the horrors!!
 
2002-03-26 04:40:57 PM

For more info on the case, another link:

Article in Rome, NY newspaper

This sheds some more information on our debate. Also, the folks involved will hit the morning talk shows tomorrow, so be ready for more and more "national debate" about this lovely topic.

the New York Post has an opinion piece, too. Here's a quote:

"Julian wrote in his decision that the move was necessary because secondhand smoke exposure "poses a significant health risk to Nicholas, placing him at increased risk for the development of lung cancer, coronary artery disease, asthma, and other pulmonary dysfunction.""


Apparently Mom says she first heard of the complaint from the Judge.

Hmmmm, nothing like airing your dirty laundry in the national press, eh?
 
2002-03-26 04:43:51 PM
If you smell it, then the poison is there. I believe it because I've seen friends carted away in ambulances from it. I believe it because every time I go along with "Oh, it's just one person in the bar" I spend the next week in bed coughing, choking and unable to breath at night.

For any of you that think I'm some sort of whimp, I'll toughen up the day after you take a bath in my phlegm... Just give me a cig and 24 hours, I'll serve it up hot and fresh!
 
2002-03-26 04:45:57 PM
Zchamu, is it okay to intentionally make people sick? I would have to say no to that, which is why I think people who have AIDS or Hepatitis or herpes or every single other VD on the planet should NEVER have sex again.

It doesn't matter if not EVERY single person gets other people sick of course... just make sexual contact illegal since it will make others sick and kill some.

Mind you, they actually have direct evidence supporting the fact that these diseases are transmitted sexually... so far, they do NOT have incontrovertable evidence that second-hand smoke from a distance of more than 5 feet does anything to anyone. Remember, their data is based on less than 5 feet of distance, and direct blowing of smoke at other people.

But again, this whole thing isn't about whether second-hand smoke is awful, bad or indifferent. The kid doesn't like the smell.
 
2002-03-26 04:47:55 PM
Dustin, you're not a wimp. You just lack a constituttion that would allow for your normal functioning in normal environment encountered daily by the largess of humanity.

Oh wait...

That does make you a wimp.
 
2002-03-26 04:49:24 PM
Dustin_00, are you stoned? Pay attention to what you said on your own. You went in the bar while someone was actively smoking.. NOT after there was no smoking going on, and the place was empty of actual smoke. Hello? McFly? You're biatching about the odor, and everyone needs to get over not liking the way things smell.
 
2002-03-26 04:52:26 PM
Dustin: I have friends that will swell up like a balloon and could suffocate if they even get peanut oil on them. Lets outlaw peanuts or any one for that matter who eats them.

Tell your friends to stay in a plastic bubble.
 
2002-03-26 04:53:06 PM
http://www.theonion.com/onion3810/11-year-olds_entire_plan.html
 
2002-03-26 04:55:56 PM
Phlegm Bath.
Mmmmmm.

Buahhahahaha!

OK kids, I'm outta here!
 
2002-03-26 04:56:21 PM
Here's something else for all to chew on. Sure smoking is legal, and everyone should have the right to do whatever they want to their bodies. But think of all the millions (billions?) of taxpayer money spent on the Medicare used to treat smoking-related illnesses. And the rising health insurace costs these days. So in a way, every tax-paying American pays for the consequences of smokers' "rights".

And to get back on topic, I think the judge did go too far in getting the woman to stop smoking completely. She should just not smoke in the presence of her kid.
 
2002-03-26 05:03:28 PM
Howie, there have been studies (and they're real studies, not tobacco company shams) that show smokers actually cost the government less than non-smokers overall. It's counterintuitive but the explanation is that smokers tend to die young and die quickly. They pay into the system and then keel over before they have a chance to cash out. Non-smokers tend to live long lives, collecting social security (and private pensions), and often live for years with chronic, and expensive, health problems associated with old age. Someone who lives to 90 ends up costing more than they payed in.
 
2002-03-26 05:04:34 PM
The other way around. Smoking creates jobs!

Hey Dustin, checkout this little Seattle air quality stats page.

http://www.nrdc.org/air/pollution/cep/csea.asp

YOU are breathing in POISON! Run Dustin Run! The Air is out to get you too! Wear a mask and rubber gloves! Don't touch dollar bills there are germs on them!
 
43
2002-03-26 05:04:44 PM
happydaddy.....you so rock
 
2002-03-26 05:06:11 PM
BTW Dustin, you should find some less pussier friends. They sound like a real DRAG.
hahahahaha
 
2002-03-26 05:10:54 PM
Hey you want to kill yourself smoking, fine, Knocks 10 off your life, that's ok, they were going to be the bad ones anyway, all shut up in the house with diabietes, heart problems, on and on..., start your kid early so you can make it a double funeral. The biggest factor is no matter how you mumble "Stay away from these kid, they'll kill you" your child sees all, and forms their opinion from your ACTIONS, not your hypocritical appologies (I know their bad for me, I'm trying to quit). If you want your kid not to smoke, don't smoke, or quit and tell them why, otherwise your example will lead to their addiction and death. Thems the facts, justify it as you will.
P.S. Why does it take a smoker 10 mins to describe and run the clerk around for a pack of smokes, heck they all are made out of the some stuff, feed that "they taste different" garbage to each other, the truth is you want to be like everyone else, but different at the same time.
 
2002-03-26 05:11:29 PM
Peanut oil isn't an airborne carcinagen. You don't walk into a room and have some stranger shove a peanut in your mouth. I hate smoke, I walk as far away from it as I can, and still I can't always avoid it. Ever hold your breath and walk, if skilled you can make 30 feet. Frankly its not fair to me to have to spend a large amount of active time avoiding smoke when I walk.
 
2002-03-26 05:14:58 PM
I wouldn't want to drown in peanut oil, though...

I do agree that if she'd just stop smoking anytime the kids are around, that'd probably be sufficient.

The place might still stink, but my dad didn't smell so good most of the time either. Something about beef stew and chili.
 
2002-03-26 05:18:04 PM
Tatarize, do you adamently support the outlawing of all motorized vehicles as well? Or rather, do you biatch about them?
 
2002-03-26 05:21:11 PM
HappyDaddy:

Health problems from smoking come from a person's choice. Health problems form obesity come from genetics... well, debatably. Anyway I don't have any numbers, but those are two fundamentally different situations.

Timefactor:

Good point, I never thought of it that way.
 
2002-03-26 05:24:15 PM
What if it isn't a choice? There are those that argue alcoholism is genetic and that some just can't avoid their fate. Why can't the same be applied to smoking? Heroin addicts, crack addicts, and alcoholics receive a helluva lot more empathy and understanding than nicotine addicts. That's why this is all so hypocritical and ridiculous.
 
2002-03-26 05:30:40 PM
It is if some God dammed smelly, Cholesterol injecting peanuteater brushes his disgusting greasy peanut oil laden hands on my friends arm when he's in an elevator!

That could send my friend to the HOSPITAL!
So if you freakin' peanuteaters wanna die of a high choleterol induced stroke, do it on your time in your own little area. Just don't kill my friend....you disgusting peanuteaters.
 
2002-03-26 05:32:13 PM
Howie must be fat.
 
43
2002-03-26 05:36:47 PM
}{owie...Genetics?
try the fork.

maybe MAYBE 3% of the obese have to deal with genetics...the rest just eat their asses on.
 
2002-03-26 05:38:41 PM
Hey I mock all addicts equally.

I don't care if you're addicted to nicotine or heroin. Unless you are a complete freaking moron you know that the use of either one of them isn't healthy for you. If you're so pathetic that you can't stop despite the fact that you actually know it's not good for you then you deserve to be eliminated from the genepool. I don't care if it's a genetic addiction or if you're just a weak willed little pussygirl without the balls to quit. The genepool would do well without either.

So I'm insensitive because I mock addicts for being as pathetic as they are. Boo-fricken-hoo. Instead of whining about how your feelings are being hurt why don't you grow some balls and kick your habbit. Oh yeah, that's right... you can't.

Buwahahahahahaaaa!

Meanwhile I'll keep investing in tobacco companies and I'll keep dancing on all your graves! Suckers!
 
2002-03-26 05:43:05 PM
First off,I do not smoke,having quit several years ago. I'll also be the first to admit that it is harmful to your health. We gonna have another Civil War though when you or any judge tells me that I can't do something that's perfectly legal in my own home. Semper Fi
 
2002-03-26 05:46:17 PM
The judge isn't telling her she can't smoke in her house.

He is telling her that if she chooses to smoke in her house she cannot force her child to visit her.
 
2002-03-26 05:47:17 PM
Well then I'm fighting for the North.
 
2002-03-26 05:49:02 PM
The Dark One - Maybe you should read up. I smoke, I like to smoke. That does not mean it is right to do around people who do not. "Can I cut a fart in your bed honey, because it makes me feel good'
The fact remains it IS a legal product and IS subsidized by the goverment. I can buy it at the quickie mart, and the won't sell me any good Jamacian (except out by the air pumps)
Think Orwell, baby. Tobacco now, alcohol next, then what?
 
2002-03-26 05:50:41 PM
People should be raised with manners to behave in a proper way around others RATHER than requiring government to pass laws restricting legal behavior. But again, that's just too rational a statement.
 
2002-03-26 05:51:12 PM
Then Peanut Oil!
 
2002-03-26 05:52:37 PM
Well isn't that why all you Americans pack handguns? So you'll be polite to one another?
 
2002-03-26 05:55:51 PM
No, to kill smartass Canucks.
 
2002-03-26 05:58:04 PM
We're all gonna die eventually... I smoke and I intend to take some of you sissy non smoking cry baby pussies with me... As for the kid.. it would be funny if he got hit by a rather large bus to prove that ain't good for you either

Whatcha gonna do about it?

Cheers

Scree
 
2002-03-26 05:58:31 PM
Oh well, what the hell. At least I won't have to pay to get the bullet removed from my ass.
 
2002-03-26 06:01:00 PM
No, you'll just have to wait 3 years for Dr. Retard.
 
2002-03-26 06:01:11 PM
Of course it would be great if we could reference the entire 18 page ruling from Judge Julian. We'll have to wait until CNN or somebody prints it for us (5th district doesn't have the decision on line)

However, as I understand one of the articles stating, both parents have to abide by the rule of not exposing Junior to smoke.

This would also mean, I suspect, that if Junior wanted to start smoking, he would be violating the same court order as long as he was in the same room with himself.

Very, very, un-spiffy.
 
2002-03-26 06:20:42 PM
...and the thread fizzles out and dies.

I have to say that I enjoyed it.
 
2002-03-26 06:44:29 PM
I smoke and don't have kids. When and if I ever do have children I'm either going to quit or at least not smoke around them. Most people I know who smoke and have kids try not to expose them to it.

But that's just me, and a few people I know. Growing-up, both my parents smoked in the house. We did not have a say in the issue. 3 out of 4 of us ("us"=myself and my siblings) smoke or did smoke at one time. 1 brother never smoked at all, and another successfully quit (and he doesn't even have children). My sister smokes very little, and doesn't smoke around her kid at all or indoors (even in her own house). I feel that's enough to dis-prove that "you'll start to smoke/smoke alot because you're exposed to it growing-up". I know I didn't start because my parents smoked, that's for sure.

What's right for me for however I decide to deal with my smoking when and if I have children isn't right for everyone. I would think the mother shouldn't want to smoke around her child. But if she isn't smoking around the kid and it's just because the place "smells like smoke" well tough sh_t, it's gonna smell like smoke. Even if I stepped outside every time I lit up, the smoke odor doesn't just "go away". There's no reason the woman shouldn't be able to smoke in her own home when the child isn't present.

The bottom-line is this, I agree that the child shouldn't have to be exposed to the smoke, but I disagree that a judge and a court order have any right to make these decisions.

It's very, very, very scary when a court / judge can make rulings on issues like these. Like others mentionned above, the next thing you know we'll see these sorts of rulings based on issues like child obesity or what-have-you.

Mike
 
2002-03-26 07:05:03 PM
The issue isn't that the judge has taken away her right to smoke or even her right to smoke in her house. He has taken away her court appointed privallege to force her son to visit her if she chooses to smoke.

Our actions all have consequences. She's perfectly free to continue smoking whenever and wherever she pleases but there will be consequences if she does. If she smokes in her a non-smoking public building then the consequences of her actions may be a $2000. If she smokes in her home then the consequences of her actions is that she can no longer force her child to visit her.

This isn't to say she can't visit her child. This isn't to say her child can't choose to visit her. She simply can't force her child to sit in the stench of her crap against his will.

This case was not about the mother's rights to smoke. She still has the right to smoke in her house. This case was about the child's right not to be forced to have to sit in his mother's smelly car or smelly house or be subjected to her smoke. As far as I'm concerned the kid has that right.

If the mother wishes to chose her cigarettes over her kid that's her right too.

You smokers are going on about how this is an attack on all your rights to smoke when it is not. This is about upholding a child of a broken home's right to choose wether or not they visit the non-custody parent. The child has stated he does not wish to visit his mother under these circumstances but until now he was forced by a court ordered visitation ruling to visit with his mother against his will. This new ruling has determined that he can't be forced to visit his mother.

Perhaps the cloud of toxic smoke some of you are spewing from your pie-holes has obscured you to the fact that children have rights too.
 
2002-03-26 07:24:14 PM
Ghastly:

They're not confused by their toxic smoke. You're just arguing with a group of people that already decided they don't care about themselves -- so why should the care about you, their children, or anybody else?
 
2002-03-26 07:32:18 PM
Karmic Hoax: People should be raised with manners to behave in a proper way around others RATHER than requiring government to pass laws restricting legal behavior. But again, that's just too rational a statement.

Anarchy, as admirable an ideal it may be, doesn't work. Laws protect the rights of the innocent from being abused.
 
2002-03-26 07:43:16 PM
Great point Ghastly.

People have the right to do most anything, but they don't have the right to avoid the consequences, and some consequences are avoidable, and some are inevitable. If you don't like the results of your actions, quit doing it.

You reap what you sew. Or in this case, you reek what you smoke.
 
2002-03-26 08:09:59 PM
I think that this works shes gotta quit aroudn the kids OR... if the mom wants to smoke let her go outside!
 
2002-03-26 08:26:12 PM
Yes, I biatch about car fumes too. But when I walk I rarely walk passed large amounts of cars, and I don't find the fumes as repulsive. And with the car driving it sorta mixes up the air faster. But hey, apple to oranges defences are fun nowadays you people can't say they don't kill you. Although sometimes people try to say that. We should start another Civil war, all smokers to the south...
 
2002-03-26 08:38:32 PM
It's sow dum dum.

I quit smoking a few months back. The reason I quit was because snot nosed little whining pussy biatches made queer noises and rolled thier eyes whenever I lit a cigarette. I quit because I could no longer smoke in public buildings, spacecraft, gas stations, or blimps. I quit because I was under such constant pressure and made to feel guilty by the Government and citizens of the evil disgusting life form that I was as a smoker.

I quit because it was time to do so. That's all.

I still go to bars and don't gripe about the smoke because you know what? I'm in a God Damned bar! People go to bars to do legal drugs.
How petty and self righteous you are to be so cool and above anyone that simply smokes.
You sound like PETA members and thier holier-than-thou attitudes towards people who eat meat.

This is mainly for Dustin.
 
2002-03-26 08:41:37 PM
I think this story is farkin' funny. I say the kid should not visit his stinking mom. Smokers smell, I'm sorry.
 
2002-03-26 08:49:59 PM
Hey, I don't smoke. Just never took it up.

If I was related to this kid I'd light one last one up in the house and put it out in his f-ucking eye.

I love an ice cold beer after work. I used to go to this one pub all the time but I could not stand all the pissy assed whining from the drinkers about the smokers. Imagine that. "Hey! Please don't smoke around me while I'm drinking myself into an early grave."

Jack-asses everywhere.

We're ALL too ugly to live forever. Die with a smile people.
 
2002-03-26 09:00:29 PM
Would someone (mod) explain why all of my posts were deleted?
 
2002-03-26 09:07:35 PM
And one last rant.

Stop and think for a minute how much tax money is collected from the government from the smoking community. You want to pick up that tab?

The Gov't makes out on both ends. Smokers pay HUGE taxes up front, then die young, so the government doesn't have to pay
them Social Secuirty and medicaid benefits. They're making money off smokers. The most dangerous thing the government could do is eliminate that tax base.

If they do they're going to have to recoup those taxes somewhere else. Who's next? Fast food guzzlers? Drinkers?

Let smokers smoke. Smokers be considerate of who you smoke around. I think it's that easy.
 
2002-03-26 09:41:29 PM
She doesn't have to quit, dumbfarks. She just can't smoke at home, which is asinine enough anyway.
 
2002-03-26 10:21:32 PM
this is asanine. people have had asthma for who knows how long. what was it blamed on before it could be blamed on smoking? smoking is the greatest thing in the world to doctors. no matter whats wrong with you, if you smoke, thats why. even if you don't, the problem is that someone you are around smokes. did you know that twice as much money is spent on medical bills for people who are obese as is spent on people who smoke.... but you don't hear anything about that. i can see the judge telling her not to smoke in front of her kid but its insane to tell her not to smoke in her house or car at all. i hope she appeals and it goes all the way to the supreme court where its declared that a judge can't order something like that.
 
2002-03-26 10:31:44 PM
I'm beyond weary of all the flaming bullshiat smokers are subjected to by non-smokers. Here's a clue assholes:
It's legal.
I pay for it myself, no cost to you.
If you don't like to smell it or breathe it, don't sit next to me. However, if you nicely ask me not to smoke, I'll probably put it out. If you get snotty, count on my chain smoking until you get up and leave, and all of your biatching, whining and disgusted looks will have no effect on me whatsoever. I,too, can be an asshole.
My slowly killing myself is none of your farking business.
I don't buy into the theory of second hand smoke being harmful, the smoke has been filtered through my lungs, so fark off.
I refuse to be cowed into submission by a bunch of self-righteous health Nazis who would have all smokers on the planet walk around ringing bells calling out "Unclean, Unclean!"
Whether I smoke or don't smoke is no one's business but my own. I'm fully aware of the damage I'm doing to my body.
Oh, and one last thought. How many of you non smokers ranting about how dangerous and life threatening smoking is have engaged in unprotected sex?
Stick that in a pipe and shove it up your ass since you won't smoke it.
 
2002-03-26 11:06:00 PM
I got my own personal revenge on the truth.com morons...They have 2 person teams scouring Chicago for young 20-somethings and teenagers to work for them by passing out fliers and such. I was approached 2 days ago by two of these farkwards. Pretended to be interested. At the end of the conversation, I pulled out a pack, took out a smoke, lit it, and blew smow in their general direction. They walked away quietly.

Maybe because I'm a terrorist.
 
2002-03-26 11:10:01 PM
Oh, and smokesearch.com for 13.50 cartons. Don't pay taxes you don't have to.
 
2002-03-26 11:50:17 PM
doofus--
you so rock! i wish i had said that.
 
2002-03-27 12:25:25 AM
Happygirl, you rock too! Checked out your bio---take it from me, a hetro female, girl, you got it going on.
FunWithPolio, thanks for the tip on the cheap smokes! Now it won't cost me so much to kill myself.
Liked the story about you farking with the truth.com dickheads.
Smoke if ya got em kiddies!
 
2002-03-27 12:27:31 AM
really. i don't even smoke but its not my place to tell you whether or not you can. i don't think smoking is heathy but i dont think its anywhere near as bad as they try and make it out to be. also i think all of this 2nd hand smoke crap is bull. like doofus said, its filtered thru his lungs and then after he breaths it out it is becoming thinner and thinner. its not like you're at his farking mouth waiting to suck in as he exhales. its just something for people to complain about, thats all it amounts to.
 
2002-03-27 03:21:30 AM
when i was born, my parents told my grandfather that if he came to visit, he couldn't smoke his cigars here.
he gave up his life long habit overnight, cold turkey.
he didn't smoke for the rest of his life, all ten years of it.
so i have no respect for smokers at all. i have no respect for them claiming that they "need a smoke", that it's "too hard to quit" or that "it doesn't hurt anyone".
it makes me farking ill. it makes my whole body hurt. i wish it was legal to hunt smokers down for sport.
 
2002-03-27 03:46:12 AM
because that would bring your Grandfather back?
So what you are saying is that you would shoot my Mom as well as many people that are very dear to me down for sport. If killing people you disagree with turns you on, I'd suggest joining the Marines.
Better yet, focus your misguided and juvenile aggression on Phillip Morris.
Creep.
 
2002-03-27 04:23:46 AM
krink.... got a few issues do we? call mom.
 
2002-03-27 10:34:36 AM
It's really simple logic that second hand smoke is bad. Cigarettes contain tar, arsenic, nicotine and all sorts of fun stuff. Lighting a cigarette causes a redox reaction which causes a state change of most of that stuff from solid to vapor. Even the stuff that remains solid is broken up into tiny particulate matter. This particulate matter receives large amounts of energy from the fire and begins moving around a lot. (If you think that is irrelevant, think back to HS Chemistry/Physics classes when they asked you, "Will water or water vapor at 100 degrees C do more damage to your tissue?" The correct answer is water vapor, because even though they are both at the same temperature, the water vapor has 100 more calories/gram [418.6 Joules/gram] than the water at the same temperature. That's a lot of energy. Then, you suck this cloud of heated, poisonous particles into your lungs. Some of the goodies are absorbed into your blood stream and then you blow it out for the entertainment and enjoyment of everyone present.

Is second hand smoking as bad for you as smoking: no, the people who say that are stupid. However, it is still bad for you. Does that require an extensive study? Does it require an extensive study to show that bullets entering your body at high velocity are bad for you?

That said, the court probably over-stepped itself in the case. It would have been better (as so many have previously said) to put the decision in the hands of the kid. He's a big boy and should be making most of his own decisions. The court has established a dangerous precedent with respect to this issue. The government should probably not be weighing in on this as a health matter, because lets face it: if you enter a room where someone smoked an hour prior, for most people there is no real health risk...it just stinks. Now five minutes before you enter a room is a different matter.

I saw an interview with some of the principles of the matter this morning on the Today show and the mom apparently already smokes outside when the kid is present and does her best not to expose him to direct second hand smoke. (direct second hand?) Her objection is to the words "at any time" in the court's judgement. She would seem to have a point.

Just a few thoughts.

----

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
 
2002-03-27 01:22:19 PM
Dustin_00,
you are an idiot. There is nothing dangerous to the general public about the smell of cigarette smoke on someone, or on clothes, etc. You might have a psychosematic reaction to it, or there might be other things you react to if you are allergic, but there are no carcinogenic properties to the smell, and the smoke disappates and is not dangerous a few feet of a few minutes from exhaling or burning off of a cigarette. Any reaction you might have to the smell would be the same thing you could have to perfume, deoderant, scented soaps, laundry detergents and fabric softeners, leather treatments, hairspray, etc. etc... all of which people use all the time. There's someone allergic to everything, so should we rebuild humanity into a vacuum environment so .00000000001% of the population can move around freely without looking out for themselves? Heck, lets shade the sun too, so that fair skinned people won't get burned and have a higher skin cancer risk.
The smell is not a health threat to the public. That's it. You might not like the smell, but I don't like the smell of you, or when you stand to close to talk, or that you don't wash your hands after you sneeze or take a wiz, or that you don't cover your mouth. or when you don't shower regularly, Or that you drive a car, putting out more toxins in your ride to work than a smoker ever will in their entire life at a pack a day, or that you play your stereo too loud, or that haircut, get real. I just move on and accept all the things I dislike about you and everyone else as part of living in a society. If you want clean free mountain air and the ability to control the smells of others, move to the mountains and live by yourself.
 
2002-03-27 05:37:51 PM
all i'm saying is that i know from personal experience that it's possible to quit. it's possible to quit cold turkey, even. anyone who claims it's too hard to quit is a spineless jelly of a human being, and i have no respect for them.
and of all the ways to slowly kill yourself, smoking is the worst because it forces everyone around you to smell like ass, and carry that stink around until they can change clothes. it's the reason i don't go to pool halls anymore. and smokers by and large are the worst human beings i've ever met. above and beyond the vice of smoking, they are horrible human beings. the fact that they care less about the people around them than they do about a drag is only a litmus test that gives proof positive they are assholes.
 
2002-03-27 08:51:13 PM
Something that bothers me about this debate is smokers never seem to care in the least that non-smokers don't care to smoke, don't want to smell like smoke, don't want to wait 10 minutes in line behind them at a 7-11 to pay for gas while they run the clerk ragged looking for that special one-and-only pack-o-smokes, don't like having to clead up 50 kazzion butts off the floor at work, or get burned while some smokers waving a cig around while talking. I know non-smokers come off hollier-than-thou, but if you have no consideration for those around you, then expect to get told off. IF I go to your place and you smoke, I'm keeping my mouth shut, it's your home I respect that, you come to my place, I say "please smoke outside" I suspect most of you will respect that. When it comes to public areas, some comprimise has to occur, that's what civilized people do. Only children expect to get their owm way all the time. More Later
 
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