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(Not even suprised any more)   Why Third World countries remain Third World countries.   (nandotimes.com) divider line 84
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7777 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Mar 2002 at 4:05 AM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-03-22 11:51:46 PM
Wow. Perfect headline. What a bunch of idiots.
 
2002-03-23 04:07:24 AM
If you have any understanding of economics (like most of the flame-war contributers think they do) then you need not even read the article to understand.
 
2002-03-23 04:10:52 AM
But now that I actually read the article and don't act like an asshole ;)

The problem here is not that the rulers actually don't believe that the aids epidemic doesn't exist... I think anyone smart enough to become the ruler of a country would understand that, especially a relatively wealthy one for africa. It's that this would be a popular move. To question the validity of the large corporations invading their country and basically robbing people with their rates for aids drugs, which in fact are poisonous, just a little less poisonous than aids itself.
 
2002-03-23 04:11:46 AM
Hehe, I was just about to call you on that one Statusquo. :)
 
2002-03-23 04:13:24 AM
Why...I'm shocked and saddened and..and yes I'm even stupidificated. I mean, jeebus, who'd a thunk it.
 
2002-03-23 04:14:15 AM
I'm just jealous I'm not quite as Quick as Quick1.
 
2002-03-23 04:16:04 AM
Must be all the beer that was consumed in the process of the night. Now speaking of countries... Why is the Saudi Arabian beheading count so low this year? Didn't it get up to the mid-sixties last year. Now it's at 6 after 2 and a half months, how disappointing.
 
2002-03-23 04:17:38 AM
Was AIDS this bad under apartheid I wonder?Just a question.

"The real problem in Africa is poverty, the document says. The West was using AIDS to ignore its costly responsibility to help the continent's development. Instead, the West was offering far cheaper condoms and drugs.

Can we say "whiny whiny gimme gimme"?"You're trying to help us by trying to prevent and treat HIV infection?!But we want money that we can just take and split amongst ourselves!".Unless they get AIDS under control,they will still be a third world 100 years from now(just my prediction).
 
2002-03-23 04:22:36 AM
And it's not a cosmiverse post. good.
 
2002-03-23 04:23:11 AM
the west has no ' responsibility ' whatsoever.
in fact I would like all nations to stop the help.

let them get the farking act together. Dont we understand that there will always be hunger as long as they dont produce themself? We send more food... they breed more.
 
2002-03-23 04:30:10 AM
The thing is Egeter, after the years of colonialization, their economy was focused towards extracting and exporting raw materials like diamonds, and I forget what else. You can't make a sudden switch to agrarian economy very effeciently. If the Western World helps to train them to grow high yield food instead of simply cash crops, they'll be well on their way. Of course, that has nothing to do with AIDS...
 
2002-03-23 04:30:45 AM
We wanna keep third world countries third world countries so there's one less approaching and/or competitor in our capitalistic market...That's what I here from thme liberals anyway...
 
2002-03-23 04:35:37 AM
Quick1:
That's the idea... The reason why 3rd world countries will stay third world countries is because they are too busy producing the food that is required for them to live, or the products to pay for importing that food (even worse for them) and they cannot produce infrastructure to produce their goods faster/better like all the first world countries do. Thus the "Vicious circle of poverty".

Gnomepoop:
And of course companies don't want competitors... but realisticly, who's worried about South Africa, they won't be a serious competitor for what, 20-30 years at least.
 
2002-03-23 04:39:11 AM
they're too busy with their petty tribal shiat. Screw them, some countries will be eternally worthless (cough ALL of subsaharan africa and about half of asia)
 
2002-03-23 04:40:57 AM
Third world countries stay third world countries also because of huge levels of corruption. Many predicted that Nigeria would follow into Huntington's Second World Thesis based on economic prosperity, where the case now is Nigeria slipping into a new category, so called the fourth world, all because of corruption and improper governing.
 
2002-03-23 04:43:22 AM
give yourself this test. Do I have to read any article, talk to anyone, or visit anywhere to answer the question "why is a third world nation a third world nation?"

if you answered yes you need to protect your loved ones from the moron waves.
 
2002-03-23 04:46:12 AM
They don't beleieve in AIDS? Let 'em all infect each other and die then. Who cares?
 
2002-03-23 04:52:56 AM
"Kariem, the ANC's health secretary, said the paper's questions about the link between HIV and AIDS and the virus' transmission through heterosexual sex fly in the face of reams of scientific studies."

It must be late. I spent a good 20 seconds wondering what a "heterosexual sex fly" was.
 
2002-03-23 04:57:57 AM
The conspiratorial paranoid side of me suspects the big drug companies are still pissed off over the decision to allow cheap knockoff AIDS drugs to be made in S. Africa and are planting misinformation to get back at the people. But then again I may just be watching too many Spike Lee movies.

Itz just anutha case of da man trying to put dem down.
 
lia
2002-03-23 05:00:57 AM
people who spread paranoid, unfounded shiat like that should be lined up and bayonetted.....or some other evil death. grrrr......
 
2002-03-23 05:16:56 AM
This has actually been an ongoing problem. Thier current president believes that AIDS is caused by poverty. He is correct to an extent. The people are malnurished poorly educated and the largest industry outside of diamonds is sex. The truly saddest part is that many young girls have AIDS because in the areas outside of the cities (ie the least educated people)the belief is that having sex with a virgin will clean the virus from your system. About a year ago I took a world politics class in which a person in the class presented this issue. The drug companies refuse to help anyway because AIDS drugs almost kill "healthy" people here in the US, and would be even more damaging to malnourished individuals in the poorest countries. These people are hearing lies from thier government and are not of significance to the West. There is no solution.
 
2002-03-23 05:35:23 AM
In 10-15 generations S.Africans will have built up immunity to HIV, if Darwin was right.
So the S.African gov't is simply doing what is best in the long run :)

Give them a darwin award, I say.
 
2002-03-23 05:46:04 AM
Quick1

Wow. Perfect headline.



Thank you. First thing that popped into my mind. Glad it got posted.
 
2002-03-23 06:26:11 AM
Fireblade and what is worthless to you? yea, they suck. shiat, they dont even have cable. course, theyre not telling anyone else how to live are they?

(cough US bully of the world)
 
2002-03-23 06:37:08 AM
Hey, Biggyfred,

Is that Portland Oregon, Maine, or (coughButtfark Afghanistan you're from?
Just wondering. We bullies wanna know where the threat originates.
We're funny that way.
 
2002-03-23 06:38:37 AM
And we bullies forget to close out our tags.

Let that be a lesson to you.
 
2002-03-23 06:43:46 AM
isn't a bit arrogant for us to think we can solve their problems? all the charity to these countries does is breed contempt, and help the corrupt rulers maintain their power. bunch of farking morons, all of them. live and let die, i say.
 
2002-03-23 07:11:59 AM
whole cultures and ways of life have been wiped out by the western influence in africa. you know this. a lot of their current problems are long term results of things "we" did to them. don't you think we owe it to them to at least try to help with this seemingly impossible situation? the western world seems pretty good at sucking up resources from other places, but not so good at helping the people whose way of life we stole in the process.
 
2002-03-23 07:40:44 AM
You know I've never seen an entire nation stick it's fingers collectively in it's ears and screaming at the top of it's lungs NYAH NYAH NAYH I'm NOT LISTENING! What I don't believe in can't hurt me!

Fish I don't believe I owe anyone shiat for the sins of my fathers. And as for "We" doing anything, I dunno about you but this cornfeed lard boy ain't never been much further than Mexico let alone Anywhere in Africa. Besides most of wrongs commited against those wonderful African resources involved the Good ol British Empire. Now I'm not laming the brit for the whole thing I'm sure the US had some doing but Dammit we got crap we need to take care of here before we ever go help some other country. I mean we feed and cloth all these other nations but we get to hear about how poor our people are. I mean not that I'm a bleeding heart, I think you get what you work for. But why don't we fix aids here before we fix aids somewhere else.
 
2002-03-23 07:51:13 AM
they rather get AIDs than be told to keep their weeners in their pants. What else are you gonna do when you're poor and have nothing else to do.
 
2002-03-23 08:12:17 AM
The US doing things "for someone else's own good" will inevitably result in resentment on this someone else's part.

Fish, African cultures were doing a perfectly good job wiping each other out before the West showed up. I bet you didn't even know the slave trade would've been impossible without massive aid from indigenous cultures, too.

Regards.
Shawn Pickrell
 
2002-03-23 08:13:32 AM
Yes we are bullies, and I am damn proud of it. No one else in the world is more qualified to bully than us. I wonder in amazement every night when I watch the evening news and see these people in the Middle East fighting and fighting. What are they fighting over? Big piles of rocks??? Then look at our country. We have lots to fight over here, yet there is no fighting. Why? We are civilized thats why. Sure we are not perfect, and we do fight, but not with guns. If you are late on your credit card payment, they do not send out the "goon squad" to break a finger or leg, they just charge you an extra $29. Our wounds are to our self esteem and wallets, there is little if any blood flowing in the streets. If there is blood flowing, it is due to the small barbaric element in our society, that has not been civilized yet. Hard to believe some people think we should not be telling other nations how to live. Fine, then go back and fight over your worthless rock pile.
 
2002-03-23 08:22:24 AM
They don`t believe in The Aids?
Thats nothing, some in the 1st world don`t believe in evolution.

It would be better for all if every food and water shipment sent over there contained that chemical that causes instant sterility.
Wouldn`t help the aids problem i admit, but it would stop them breeding, which is the cause of virtually all their problems. Too many damn people and not enough resources/jobs in that part of the world, and there never will be without a huge population drop.
 
2002-03-23 08:25:07 AM
stpickrell: i did know that. i know that the problems have a lot to do with the british, i know all about how much they killed each other before the west came along. i still think we should help them. i also agree that its not our fault, ie most regular people of the west today,a nd i agree that we have to take care of oyur own. it hurts me to hear people like fireblade saying that these people are eternally worthless our culture is the one that destroyed a lot of the "worth" of these people. we should help people just becasue they are people, regardless of who buredn them.
anyway, i'm going so have a nice day.
 
2002-03-23 08:33:21 AM
I rate this right up there with the U.S.A. black's contention that the drug problem in the inner city is a government/white man plot to destroy the black man.

This is typical mental laziness. The easiest course for any individual or group of people to take is to blame someone else for their problems. Do so and suddenly, the innocent party becomes responsible. The taxpayers suddenly become responsible for supporting unwed mothers and food stamp recipients.

Look at all of the government (tax payer) supported programs for drugs and drug rehab, work programs for minorities, AIDS research, inner city renovation, etc, etc.

Why do third world countries remain, third world countries? This is why. And that very mentality permeates alot of this country.

Kruschev was right when he predicted that the United States would defeat itself and collapse from within. Cater to the lazi, the dependent, the remoras of society, and they will drag you right down with them.

Until this country (and the world) grows the balls needed to call a spade a spade (no pun intended), things will never change. Time to get tough. Get tough or get gone.
 
2002-03-23 08:37:00 AM
AIDS is a tool of racism against gays and minorities. AIDS is a weapon developed by the West to "purge" the unwanteds.
It's that simple.
 
2002-03-23 08:43:54 AM
Points TO BigPeeler. He's right the same ideas keep family's on welfare for generations because they are "Owed" something by the state.

Kruschev's shoe was also right when it said "BANG BANG BANG" on the table.
 
2002-03-23 08:44:59 AM
Right AM Red 99 cause no white people ever get aids who aren't gay.
 
2002-03-23 09:16:11 AM
Yanno, we should just evangelize em all Christian and then they'd stop having so much sex and get work ethic.

(sorry, things are talking too long to get flaming)
 
2002-03-23 09:42:33 AM
Spazzm: The HIV virus is changing it´s apperance all the time, so there is no chance of building up any immunity.
It´s the same with the common cold virus...
 
2002-03-23 09:49:05 AM
Just a really kick ass common cold.
 
2002-03-23 09:52:04 AM
Please people, let's remember that this is a cultural issue, not a racial issue. Those who are willing to simplify the problem down to the color of skin are even dumber than those who believe that AIDS does not exist or that AIDS was developed to kill blacks and gays.
 
2002-03-23 10:02:48 AM
this is also a culture who mean take great pride in impregnating as many women as possible. its a sign of manhood to subjugate the women like that.

reading this report, well, i have very little pity for ignorant folks...
 
2002-03-23 10:17:33 AM
Don't be too sure you know the real facts regarding AIDS. Keep the mind open and read this:

http://www.monadnock.net/fanspaces/hogan/heresy.html
 
2002-03-23 10:36:22 AM
Aids is caused by anal sex and drugs. any kind of drugs, prescribed or narcotics.

For whatever reason, the africans are being mass murdered and it is not because they are sexually corrupt. It is about time their government stood up and started telling the truth. The AIDs propaganda that is going around and being taught in schools is one of the biggest lies. Drug companies just want to make more money, polititians just want more control. Educate yourself, and do not think that you know anything about AIDS if you believe the BS they taught you in school.
 
2002-03-23 10:38:34 AM
What the hell is wrong with those people over there?! And I don't mean those black people. I mean the leaders of African nations. Nearly every one of them is corrupt, and from the looks of this article, apparently stupid, too. I say "nearly" because I don't remember hearing anything ignorant out of Kenya -- yet.

I feel bad just name-calling, but I can't seem to come up with any other excuse that would explain how someone can claim non-existence of something as widespread and as harmful as AIDS. Although, now that I think of it, there is precedent for this -- big tobacco. "I believe that tobacco is not addictive."

Why is it that -- seemingly across the board -- people who are least mentally qualified to run a government are the ones doing it? I hear some really excellent ideas for taking care of various economic and social problems from people I know -- including Farkers/Farkettes. But when you say " Hey -- that's pretty good. You oughta run for office." They say "Neh, I don't want the job."
 
2002-03-23 10:39:24 AM
OK kids, Africa is in a world of hurt right now, and it IS the mostly the fault of the Europeans who went in and beat the stuffing out of them. Africa is locked in cycle of violence and ignorance, not because they are inferior, not because they are stupid, but because they are NOT together--there are more ethnic groups saddled together in that continent than just about anywhere--besides Asia--and all of them are competing for dwindling resources--the most precious right now is Western aid. And as proud as all of these groups are, they hate that dependency. They'll do just about anything to get free of it. Africa is not a simple case of, "let them get their shiat together." It's a web of problems that comes down to having been held in the hands of Western nations for a very long time, and then cut loose. Problems that the West helped create--the famines in Ethiopia were the result of agricultural initiatives that failed. Forced migrations moved entire populations to areas where their tried and true methods were no longer going to work. Africans are responsible for a cycle of violence against other Africans, and the West looks on this and we shake our heads, but they are fighting for resources that aren't there. Infrastructure they can't build while locked into this cycle. It's stupid to us, because we're not over there. It's similar to the violence in Eastern Europe--these are people who've hated each others' guts for a LONG time, and now they are free to beat the crap out of one antoher. And they are. Because they know they can't get the infrastructure built, they know they can't get the aid they need to do anything else, so they do what they know they CAN do, and that is pick up a machete and slice off a piece of their neighbor.
The crux of the article comes down to the ANC trying to get the pharms out of their hair. It's not that they don't think that AIDS isn't a problem, but that these companies, and companies like them, are a bigger problem. Think about that for a moment. What burdens are these corporations, and corporations like them, imposing that makes AIDS a roseier alternative?
You want to get Africa together, they need infrastructure, support, and education. Sound agricultural alternatives, sound energy policies, sound transportation policies, and control over their own resources. Right now, corporations control a lot of those things, and bludgeon these nations with them--or worse, banks bludgeon them with policies that they write in return for loans so that their shareholders can make more money off them. A lot of the violence might stop if these folks had some hope that they might be able to make a decent living. When you've got stuff, you tend to hedge your bets to keep it. Got nuthin', lose nuthin'.
 
2002-03-23 11:04:20 AM
Africa is in a world of hurt right now, and it IS the mostly the fault of the Europeans who went in and beat the stuffing out of them. Africa is locked in cycle of violence and ignorance, not because they are inferior, not because they are stupid, but because they are NOT together

Sorry, Hubie, but I have to call bullshiat on your post. African tribes were savages trading in slavery and internecine warfare well into the 19th century. The Europeans did not teach them about war-- if anything, the Europeans helped create more stable social systems and larger groups. Unfortunately, along with that cam rifles and other weaponry, so the body count got higher. I can't believe the kinds of marxist neo-colonialist bullshiat going on in this thread...

1. Aids has been around a loooong time
2. modern society and transportation methods have expanded its reach
3. African businessmen, truckdrivers, and other journeymen fark their lights out wherever they go-- until this behaviour stops, the whole continent is doomed (BTW, this behaviour predates the Europeans)
4. Don't blame the pharmaceutical companies. They're trying to help, and trying to set up situations where they CAN help. Research ain't free. If you don't want the pharmaceuticals, then fine-- maybe aids will just 'go away' on its own.

You want to get Africa together, they need infrastructure, support, and education. Sound agricultural alternatives, sound energy policies, sound transportation policies, and control over their own resources. Right now, corporations control a lot of those things

Wait, if corps don't put infrastructure in, then who will? governments? bwahahahahaha... moronic. Any gov't would simply contract with a corp to do it. The problem is the graft, corruption, and quasi-dictatorships rampant throughout the region.

You might want to study some history and economics before you post.
 
2002-03-23 11:09:57 AM
For whatever reason, the africans are being mass murdered and it is not because they are sexually corrupt

Uhhhh.... yes, actually, that's exaclty why.

Promiscuity levels are much higher (i forget the multiplier) than in the West. There is not only anectdotal research for this, but the mathematcial curve of the aids epidemic in Africa proves it. You can actually graph a society's promiscuity level by measuring the spread of a virus passed through sexual contact. Go read some material at the CDC.
 
2002-03-23 11:13:56 AM
AIDS, more so than other diseases, cannot be addressed simply by vaccinations, even if efficacious and safe vaccines could be found. More than drugs and vaccines, we need to end poverty, malnutrition and environmental destruction, to reinstate social equity and free access to primary healthcare and education.

The majority of research is focused on the strains of the virus and the eventual market in North America and Western Europe. Creating a vaccine involves using Ugandans to be the guinea pigs, to sell a vaccine to the West, Ugandans will at worst, end up with more strains with worse effects and an inaffective vaccine providing a false sense of security. To think that a dictatorship would suddenly begin to ship the vaccine to its people when others will give them cash for it, is a bit unlikely.

The first phase I trial of a canarypox vaccine in Africa was launched early in 1999. It was tested for safety and immunogenicity in Ugandan volunteers, and to reveal the extent to which immunized Ugandans have cytotoxic lymphocytes that are active against the subtypes A and D of HIV, which are prevalent in Uganda. The vaccine was planned to enter phase I/II trials in Haiti, Trinidad, and Brazil during 2000.

Is canarypox virus safer than vaccinia virus? Most probably not. Both are orthopox viruses and are rich in recombination hotspots. This family of viruses is widely distributed, and recombination between different poxviruses can readily take place.

Recombinants have arisen that are more virulent than either parent, and it is impossible to predict the fate of released canarypox vaccine with HIV genes. The use of these vaccines in Africa where monkeypox is endemic is likely to generate recombinants with unpredictable pathogenicities. Monkey pox is transmitted from human to human, but the natural virus is relatively harmless. Could a recombinant virus arise that may be as virulent as the smallpox virus?

www.i-sis.org.uk
 
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