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(TheTimesOnline)   Woman discovers, much to her neighbor's chagrin, that it's not a good idea to use a remote starter on a stick-shift car parked in reverse   (thetimesonline.com) divider line 143
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14534 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2005 at 1:20 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-03-16 02:52:17 PM
jim90291-

How am I a 'moran' if after telling the garage attendant not to leave my truck in gear, and to make sure he sets the parking brake, he still leaves the truck in gear and fails to set the parking brake? Sounds like I did my part. Maybe next time you can re-read the story before making a comment. Usually helps with the ol' credibility.
 
2005-03-16 02:54:14 PM
Maybe I left out that he hit the remote start button on my alarm fob. After I told him which was the unlock and which was the start button.
 
2005-03-16 02:54:40 PM
Some cars have a switch that you can hit which will allow you to start the car without having to press the clutch in. My 87 Toyota Pickup has it, it's actual intention is so that you can start your on a steep rock, while holding your brake and using your right foot for gas.

Nissan is marketing one of their new pathfinder's with the exact same thing, and claim it's new technology. Asshats.
 
2005-03-16 03:00:35 PM
Women should be outlawed from driving manual transmissions.

Hah. Fark you. I farking hate automatics.
 
2005-03-16 03:05:18 PM
How am I a 'moran' if after telling the garage attendant not to leave my truck in gear, and to make sure he sets the parking brake, he still leaves the truck in gear and fails to set the parking brake?

Well, I'm not going to say moran, but really... since you're not the one who parked the truck you probably should have checked it before showing off your nifty remote starter.
 
2005-03-16 03:09:43 PM
this happened in s.w. michigan. south haven is near st. joeseph, near the indiana/michigan border. the only good thing about that town is gingerman raceway.

michigan sucks.

/former s.w.michigananigan
 
2005-03-16 03:13:20 PM
NineInchNader-

Well, I'm not going to say moran, but really... since you're not the one who parked the truck you probably should have checked it before showing off your nifty remote starter.

Should I have used my ESP or my crystal ball to check if the garage attendant followed my instructions? The garage had valet parking, so he went down to get my truck. I didn't just use the remote starter in the garage. Usually if the garage attendant parks your car, he generally brings it up to you. At least in the valet garages I've used in the past.
 
2005-03-16 03:19:01 PM
Should be called a parking break. Damn thing never works. The cable gets loose, then if you really need it it won't work.

Only use the parking brake when on a steep incline as a just-in-case device if the pin breaks in a automatic. And never bother in a standard, leave it in gear.
 
2005-03-16 03:29:27 PM
Bronch... So was it you or the attendant who used the remote? I mean, if it were you, then you could have gone to the truck and looked inside, right? Maybe even started it from the inside? You would have had to go to the truck and gotten inside to drive it anyway, wouldn't you?

Having a new toy does not invalidate the old methods, after all.
 
2005-03-16 03:39:07 PM
It was the attendant, not me. I thought that would have been clear...

I've had the remote starter on my truck since 1999, and I've never had a problem (except for Skippy at the Ottawa Sheraton). I've parked it in garages from Manhattan to Montreal to Indianapolis, and not one time was there a problem. Standard speech about leaving it out of gear and not touching button #3 seemed to be enough.
 
2005-03-16 03:41:05 PM
It was the attendant, not me. I thought that would have been clear...

When I have my head buried in C++ code all day, nothing is as clear as it should be.

Gotcha now -- I understand.
 
2005-03-16 03:42:36 PM
few things I know about this one...

1) It is illegal, (at least it was here in Ohio in 97 when I worked at a custom shop) to install a remote start on a car with a manual transmission. That is because you must disable the interlock to do it, and that is illegal.

2) If you forget #1, and do it anyway, the installer can be held liable for damages.

3) We would, for an under the counter fee, install the electronics, and give the customer instructions, then *discover* it was a manual, and inform the customer that we could not legally proceed, because if we were to "connect this wire here, *point* to this wire here *point* it would make it possible for the car to be started in gear. That could be bad" and toss them the keys and some electrical tape.

4) My acura will start in gear, but I disconnected the interlock. Only because I have driven 100 yards into a gas station in 2nd gear (flat surface) when out of gas, on the starter alone. Stupid, but functional. If you live in an area with frequent construction, where they have NO break down lane... you learn that damaging your starter is a small price to pay, v/s leaving your disabled vehicle in a traffic lane on I-75 (or worse, the Penn Turnpike)

5) I always park in gear, but that is because my rear brakes are very sticky (525,000 miles on the car) and I need to replace the rear calipers. Because the calipers stick, I can not use the parking/emergency brake. I will fix that if spring ever gets here. (I will use it if parking on hill, which I try to avoid. Better to blow through brake pads than someones house)
 
2005-03-16 03:49:38 PM
awexome
Nissan is marketing one of their new pathfinder's with the exact same thing, and claim it's new technology. Asshats.

My '86 Nissan Pickup had an interlock switch too, kinda funny how they've forgotten what they used to offer. I wish my '01 Frontier had one, useful when starting your truck on very snowy mornings with out getting a cubic yard of snow in the truck from your boots. And why did Subaru stop having the hill-hold on all their cars?
 
2005-03-16 03:51:15 PM
NineInchNader-

Understood, friend. I do a little programming myself, and it's no fun!

Shadow-

525,000 miles! I had an '89 Camaro RS that I sold 4 years ago with 303,000 on the odometer. Everything was original except for the tranny (blew at 275,000), starter (went through about 6), and alternator (one went at 125,000, the second at 250,000). My '99 Tacoma 4x4 has 106,000, so we're just breaking her in!
 
2005-03-16 04:00:57 PM
The drivetrain on the Acura is all original. Hell, she is even still on the factory clutch. (but it is starting to slip... I can adjust it though.. I like being able to to that)

3 timing belts, (Integras are notorius for that) and 2 alternators, (needing a 3rd at this point)

In fact, I blew a timing belt off it on I-95 in front of Quantico in 98, at over 90mph and climbing with some friends coming back from the Virgina Renaissance Faire. Mechanic said $800, and new valves. I said .. yeah right. Went into the parking lot.. lined everything up, popped on the new belt (thats a biatch) and started it up. The look on his face was priceless. Thats when I learned the DOHC engines tend to eat valves if you lose the timing belt. Never happened to me, and I have lost two of them, both at highway speeds.

She eats brakes, has some rust, and a huge dent on one side where I was t-boned 10 years ago. (Driver had no insurance, and was an old friend from school, so I let him go.. knew he would never pay) but that car runs like a dream.

The interior looks like a college dorm room, but thats just because its been since my trip to NOLA on Halloween since I have cleaned her. If spring *ever* does get to Cincinnati, I'll fix that too.
 
2005-03-16 04:25:22 PM
Driving a standard without using the clutch is a very valuable skill to learn, and it isn't that hard. Especially in a car with a synchronized tranny (which is pretty much everything made past the 60s), which helps prevent those ugly grinding noises if you don't get the RPMs right. You just have to take it easy. Ease up to a couple thousand RPM, slip it into neutral, feather the gas a bit to keep the engine turning at the right speed, and gently pop it into the next gear. If you do it right, it's smooth as silk, even when downshifting (a little harder, but still very possible). You just have to know your shift points. If you have to come to a complete stop, your car will obviously stall. Put it into 1st (or reverse), turn the key, and the starter motor will turn the engine over (making the car lurch like crazy for a second) until it starts, and you're off!

Why is it valuable? It might not be so much for newer cars, but it is with my old VWs (or any other older car with a clutch CABLE). Cables break at the least opportune times. The clutch cable in my '67 Kombi snapped when I was a few kilometres from home. Waited til rush hour was over, then drove home without the clutch so I could replace the cable.

I just realized that with all the talk of trannys, ugly grinding noises, and slipping things "in", there are about a million really dirty jokes in my first paragraph. Or maybe it's just me...
 
2005-03-16 04:29:23 PM
BronchialStatue

because you trust a parking attendant with insructions, that are both unusual, and risky in that if not followed correctly, your car would cause an accident.

now, did *you* click the auto-start button, or did they? if they did, then i would say, yes, its their fault, they were entirely on their own wrt parking/handling of your car.

but if you did, then i say its your fault. again, relying on someone to think/act beyond their norm. especially a canadian...
 
2005-03-16 04:36:16 PM
Christine Djordjevic stepped outside Monday morning to discover her car -- which she said is "possessed" -- had driven itself across the street and crashed into the neighbor's home.

Yeah, it's possessed...possessed by a stupid, stupid woman.
 
2005-03-16 04:37:25 PM
Shadow-

Very impressive! My Camaro started to look like it went through the war in Sarajevo, so I repainted it and fixed the wear on the seats. The headliner was starting to separate, so my dad found one off a junked Cavalier. Only problem was, the Cavalier had a sun-roof, my Camaro didn't. Now my Camaro has a sunroof :p My dad and I saw it driving around a few months back, and it still looked to be running pretty well.
 
2005-03-16 04:42:08 PM
jim90291-

The first thing that I learned in driver's ed (in New York) was to never EVER leave a car in gear. Especially in a confined space, and never on flat ground. In extreme situations (such as on a very steep hill), they told us that we could leave it in gear, but not to make it a habit. I was parked, by a valet, in a garage, on flat ground. Considering that I drive my truck to work in Manhattan pretty much every day for 2 years, and never had a problem, parked it in Montreal a few months before without a problem, and never had a problem of anykind in the 5 and a half years I'd had the truck, I didn't expect this time to be any different. And what's risky and/or unusual about "Please make sure to leave the truck in neutral, and please set the parking brake"?

His response was that they "don't use parking brakes in Canada". Something about their use being taxed or something....

I love Canadians. Except ones who can't follow instructions.
 
2005-03-16 05:00:59 PM
BronchialStatue

Yeah, we do. Tax-free. Maybe it's a French thing.

Brake
Break
Broke
Busted
 
2005-03-16 05:05:25 PM
Briefcase Nuke

Could have been an Ottawa thing. I hear you Winnipeggians are all right. At least from what I saw on that Simpsons episode with the prescription drug scam. Plus, anyone who uses their parking brakes are A-OK with me.
 
2005-03-16 05:06:05 PM
PM BronchialStatue

well, your drivers ed teacher is the moran then. there's no reason to leave your car in neutral. would you park an automatic in neutral? leaving a car in gear is the standard operating procedure, not the other way around.

in your specific situation, i see it as being the valet's fault. you give them your car, you expect it back the same way. and you essentially warned..

BUT..

the fact that an asshat can do that, by simply not following instructions, means the blame should also be on your car. what are you doing with a device that the average, can't RTFM, person, can cause an accident with? is sparing yourself from the cold worth the future possibility that next time a valet takes you car someone can end up hurt?

these things you guys all use are luxuries, nothing more. it should be your responsbility to install it in such a way that someone can't, so easily, cause an accident.

sorry, i think you're still liable.
 
2005-03-16 05:10:04 PM
Jim-

Well, I respectfully disagree. The funny thing is, if he would have used the parking brake, no harm no foul. He probably would have crapped himself, but the truck would have stalled out. 4 cylinder Toyota engines have less torque than a hamster in a wheel. He's the moran.
 
2005-03-16 05:12:32 PM
Hmmm... I think I'll start putting my car in gear when I park. Don't want it to roll down a hill when the parking brake is engaged, but the gearbox is in neutral. Anyone know if that would be covered by warranty (ie, the parking brake didn't do it's job)? Should check my manual to see exactly what it says.

/haven't parked in gear since the time I forgot I had parked in gear and let out the clutch after I started it...
//considered getting a remote starter, but didn't, and probably won't now.
 
2005-03-16 05:19:07 PM
BronchialStatue

Well, I respectfully disagree.


cool, i don't need an auto-start, i live in L.A., need isn't there. thus i don't know entirely how they are installed, work, etc.. this thread though makes it sound like having them in manuals is a bad idea, since the possiblity of your situation is likely.

i can't quite see the valet being a moran for not using the parking brake, when for 99.9% of the other cars its ok. sure he couldn't follow instructions, and i would imagine, as a Canadian, his engligh was good (unlike garages in so.cal), still... but that's where we disagree, and i'm only commenting from your description, my opinions not prefect...

but it sounds like your setup is illegal. am i wrong?
 
2005-03-16 05:20:39 PM
2005-03-16 02:11:16 PM justanotherfarkinfarker
Jeffy Jeff, actually that is recomended by all car manufactures and is safe driving procedure. So your wife is doing the right thing.


Please... setting the parking break in an automatic when parking it in a safe flat spot? Sure it's "safe", just like wearing a helmet to bed is "safe".

For the first year of marriage I constantly drove off with her damn parking break engaged. If it isn't set really tight it offers surprisingly little resistance. :)
 
2005-03-16 05:28:06 PM
Jim-

In CT and NYC it perfectly not illegal. I jumped out the neutral safety switch, but I'm not sure there's a law against it in New York.
 
2005-03-16 05:33:40 PM
His response was that they "don't use parking brakes in Canada". Something about their use being taxed or something....

Hah, sounds like he was just making shiatty excuses. I hope you're making up that tax part, otherwise the guy is an asshat. I can understand "we don't use parking brakes in Canada on auto cars", since I would say that that is the norm, unless you park on a hill, but I don't know anyone who leaves their standard parked without the handbrake on. I'm in Ontario btw, so closer to Ottawa than our good Winnipegian.

You said that they let you stay free for a night... did they also compensate you or the other car's owner for the damages?
 
2005-03-16 05:46:26 PM
BronchialStatue
I jumped out the neutral safety switch


does that mean what i think that means? it sounds to me like you took out the the mechanism's safety. is that what you did? if so, why?
 
2005-03-16 05:47:17 PM


unavailable for comment.
 
2005-03-16 05:55:48 PM
Xyling: The beeping sound Hondas make to get your attention is Morse code for H.


Spend a little time as 31CV4 did we?

/me did, anyway
 
2005-03-16 06:01:46 PM
I don't know if anyone said this already but why doesn't she just throw this thing away? Switch to keys.


 
2005-03-16 06:02:21 PM
Thats big- sorry
 
2005-03-16 06:15:57 PM
It's smaller on the laptop
 
2005-03-16 06:24:09 PM
Orlphar:

Hmmm... I think I'll start putting my car in gear when I park. Don't want it to roll down a hill when the parking brake is engaged, but the gearbox is in neutral. Anyone know if that would be covered by warranty (ie, the parking brake didn't do it's job)? Should check my manual to see exactly what it says.

I would imagine that your manual (book not tranny) (transmission not transvestite) would tell you to leave it in gear when parking on a hill.

If one isn't on a slope, the parking brake should suffice, unless it doesn't work. If the latter is the case, one should either adjust the tension on the line or fix the rear brakes. imo anyway.
 
2005-03-16 06:29:56 PM
Would it just kill that lady to even try using the key to turn the ignition? Beside that, people got to be farkin' lazy with the remote lock/auto-start these days. She got what she deserved.
 
2005-03-16 06:45:47 PM
I've never owned anything but manuals. I always park in gear. Most of the time I set the parking brake, but not always. Why? I've seen too many times where people relied on just the parking brake and bad things happen. My current car's parking brake couldn't keep the car stationary (on a slight incline). Got that fixed, but it's a good lesson.

I valeted cars through high school and part of college. We always left sticks in gear with the brake set. It's just safer. Never had one complaint. Never even had one person in 5 years ever leave me a car in neutral (except if it was running of course). I'm amazed at the number of people here who seem almost shocked at the idea of leaving a car in gear. ALWAYS make sure you are in neutral before starting. It's a good habit to get into.
 
2005-03-16 08:55:27 PM
the bottom line is:

(1) leave your car in gear.

(2) don't get a auto-start on your manual, and if so, don't disable the saftey that prevents it from being in gear --- and as long as you're at it, don't give complicated instructions to valets, if your car is so damn special it needs explanations, then park it yourself.
 
2005-03-16 10:52:52 PM
From the article about the fuel sniffer: "Now that he has been imprisoned in breach of his Asbo there may be a chance he can rehabilitate himself with the help of the prison services."

Prison services?
 
2005-03-17 04:25:27 AM
You crazy amerkans and your inability to comprehend how a manual gearbox works...

There are times when you would park a manual car in gear - ie. when you're parked on a hill, as a safety precaution in case the handbrake failed.

The problem here is the lazy fatass owner of the car, not the car itself.
 
2005-03-17 11:42:51 AM
to all of you who say park in gear on a hill blah blah blah... not necessarily... IF you are on a hill with a curb, engage the parking brake and turn the wheels INTO the curb... at least that's what i was taught in drivers ed... and this was in the flat state of nebraska...
 
2005-03-17 02:07:20 PM
Jesus christ! The 'installer' who did the work on that remote start should have his cock removed with an angle grinder.

I installed for ten years and I have had a remote start on every vehicle I have ever owned. Manual, automatic, didn't matter to me, but there are saftey precautions you MUST take.

Since many manuals now have clutch interrupt switches, you have to wire past that...easy enough, just hook the two lead wires of the switch together if it's normally open....the reverse if it's normally closed...DONE. Now you can start your rig without having to have the clutch depressed. Now that you have done that, lets talk safety.

Catch the lead off the emergency brake switch (the one that goes to the idiot light in your gague cluster) and wire that up to the neutral switch input of your alarm so that the vehicle will not auto-start unless the e-brake is engaged.

The second safety step is to fabricate two metal bars and mounting brackets with rubber feet. The rubber insulate the bars from ground...now mount those bars where the shifter will touch them if the tranny is in gear (one bar covers gears 1 3 and 5, the other bar covers 2 4 and Reverse)...but not touch them when it's in neutral. Now connect these bars to the neutral input of the remote-start just like you did with the e-brake.

Now your manual will not start unless the parking brake is engaged AND it's in neutral. Safe...simple...done...and it only takes a few extra seconds to fab the parts and find the e-brake lead.

Stupid installers make the baby jebus cry!
 
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