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(LA Times)   Report says school has turned kids into high-tech guinea pigs   (latimes.com) divider line 456
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17921 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2005 at 1:48 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-02-22 11:19:21 AM
Uh, bottom line is that attending school is a priviledge, not a right, even if it is a government school. If you don't like it, home school or cough up the money and go to private school. The child will get a better education anyway.

Parents must stop abrogating their responsibilities and get involved with their own childrens' education.
 
2005-02-22 12:33:53 PM
You have to watch out. Those high tech guinea pigs can be dangerous!

/w3 br0k3 j00r Int4rw3b!!!
 
2005-02-22 01:52:21 PM
Frank N Furter needs to GO!
<-
 
2005-02-22 01:52:34 PM
StrikitRich - Attending a government school is not a priviledge. When the government confiscates money from me every year to pay for them, then I consider it bought and paid for.

When I am no longer forced to pay for schools, then I'll consider it a priviledge.
 
2005-02-22 01:53:21 PM
Welcome my son
Welcome to the machine
Where have you been?
It's alright, we know where you've been..."


/teachers leave them kids alone
 
2005-02-22 01:54:43 PM
Yes! We are guinea pigs now, and here I was thinking we were lab rats.

/sitting in school right now
 
2005-02-22 01:54:59 PM
attending school is a priviledge,

Or a privilege, depending where you go.
 
2005-02-22 01:56:12 PM
"You are planned, and you are damned, in this Brave New World..." -- Iron Maiden, "Brave New World"
 
2005-02-22 01:56:19 PM
Yeah...I'll pay for private schools...when I no longer have to pay into the public fund for public schools. Until then, my kids will go to public schools and I will do what I consider neccessary to ensure that public school is acceptable.

/Yeah I'm gonna be 'that guy' at the board and budget meetings.
 
2005-02-22 01:56:48 PM
StrikitRich:

Uh, bottom line is that attending school is a priviledge, not a right, even if it is a government school



Then why do parents get arrested when their kids repeatedly don't show up for school?
 
2005-02-22 01:56:51 PM
Simpsons did it!

/didn't RTFA
 
2005-02-22 01:57:26 PM
Well I'll be the first to say it: I submitted a similar article about this with a better headline....12 days ago. Bah. Someday I'll come up with an acceptable one.

/Thinks the ID tags are pointless
//Knows that no one else cares
 
2005-02-22 01:58:03 PM
StrikitRich

Uh, bottom line is that attending school is a priviledge, not a right, even if it is a government school.

Bullshiit. If public school is a privilege, then why am I being taxed for something I do not and will never use?
 
2005-02-22 01:59:58 PM
"It's like we're in prison," said another [student].

Not yet my wee ones ... but soon.
 
2005-02-22 02:00:44 PM
StrikitRich:

Parents must stop abrogating their responsibilities and get involved with their own childrens' education.


Hear, hear..! There is a MAJOR lack of parental participation, especially in California schools. And my sis-in-law, who's a pub school teacher, says it all comes down to selfishness on the parents' part. With both parents working to maintain a keeping-up-with-the-Jones' lifestyle, and (illegal?) immigrant nannies raising their kids -- the situation is ripe for some idiotic pencil pusher to come up with this kind of lamebrain scheme.

Now, if you want to get a good teacher really riled up... ask 'em why the bad ones don't get fired.
 
2005-02-22 02:01:10 PM
The mark of the beast! RFID is the mark of the beast!

Basically, this is a bunch of Yokels afraid of new technology. Heh.
 
2005-02-22 02:01:24 PM
When you graduate, you can do whatever you want, so suck it up.


Pussies.
 
2005-02-22 02:01:47 PM
So, are people complaining that minors have the right to be truant or unaccounted for at certain times of the day?

Jeeeez.....
 
2005-02-22 02:02:33 PM
1. A "public" education implies, to me at least, that members of the public have a right to receive it.

2. The school should have just secretly sprayed the kids with SmartWater.
 
2005-02-22 02:03:09 PM
My school adopted mandatory ID badges the year after I graduated. The reasoning is to make sure there are only students of school in the building, don't ask me, I guess they are worried about kids from other districts getting in and learning?

Anyways, there was no protest whatsoever. In fact, it was embraced and copied by many other schools with parents that wanted them.

As far as this RFID stuff goes, I am rather ignorant. I understand the basics, but couldn't they set it up to "turn on" when they walk in the building and "turn off" when they leave? I think it's fine to track them in the building, but once they leave the campus it's none of the schools business....

What about simply putting a swipe strip on the id badges? They have to swipe to get counted for attendance...does the same thing, and there is no "big brother" association. I mean, I have to do numerous swipes to get in and walk around my building....
 
2005-02-22 02:04:01 PM
I say screw RFID, chip the little bastards with GPS, so we can track them 24/7. We will be saveing the children from all those kidnappers, child molesters, and unwanted influence. You can even have their movements plotted on a website for everyone to see. Then in about 10 years we can see how much it reduced crime to have every citzen tracked and monitered by the government.
 
2005-02-22 02:04:21 PM
I wonder how many parents protesting this wear proximity ID badges for work and never think twice about it.
 
2005-02-22 02:04:36 PM
All this squabbling could have been avoided with a carefully planned marketing strategy by the school administration.

First, make up stories about how kids are being stalked by creepy old men. Second, stir until boiling. Third, annouce your plan to track every child with a security badge. /hero
 
2005-02-22 02:04:38 PM
I wonder how many of the parents who are throwing this stink work somewhere that issues them ID badges, and uses them for access to facilities, timeclocking, etc?

I have one. I wear a badge on a lanyard around my neck. I have to use it to swipe into and out of areas where I work. Big deal. The only difference is that mine is magnetic stripe, not wireless. But if all that is on the card (and broadcast) is a randomly assigned ID number - so what?

Besides - the kids should be enterprising enough to figure out how to use this to their advantage - like hacking the badges and changing the numbers, so they can "clock in" their friends....
 
2005-02-22 02:05:00 PM
I call bullshiat. School is not a priviledge. We are being taxed for it, you can be arrested for poor attendence (parents), and you have to send your kids during certain ages.


The Law:

By law, all children of compulsory school age (between 5 and 16) are required to get appropriate full-time education. You are responsible for making sure this happens, either by registering your child at a school and ensuring good attendance or by making other arrangements which provide an effective education eg. providing education at home.

If your child is registered as a pupil at a particular school, that school must give permission for your child to be absent. If your child does not go to the school at which he or she is registered, the Education Welfare Service can take legal action against you.
 
2005-02-22 02:05:07 PM
ill say its ok when every parent agrees to pay for it and it is not payed for with tax money
 
2005-02-22 02:06:04 PM
Skasteve:
I guess they are worried about kids from other districts getting in and learning?

No, it's usually to keep out drug dealers, gang members, or anyone who constitutes a threat to the student body.

Also, a school's funding is based on attendance -- so those RFIDs really ARE inventory control.
 
2005-02-22 02:07:10 PM
"Folks talked of George Orwell, Big Brother and the Bible"

I wonder what they all have in common.
 
2005-02-22 02:07:18 PM
StrikitRich,

Obviously you do not have children. When you do have children (shudder), try and keep them out of the first grade or any grade up to and including 12th. If you're not homeschooling your child, then you will have a nice tidy DSS (Department of Social Services here in Mass) case to deal with. Let us know how that goes.
 
2005-02-22 02:08:16 PM
An ID card with a magnetic stripe is simply a key. When you walk in, you turn the key and they know you're in attendance. This radio transmitter technology is a tracker, they might as well be scanning your irises everywhere you go. This sort of thing may be started with good intentions, but is a step too far into constant surveillance for me. Never thought I'd see the day I agreed with the ACLU pukes
 
2005-02-22 02:08:34 PM
slightly off topic, but still related...



Operator: Thank you for calling Pizza Hut. May I have your national
ID number?

Customer: Hi, I'd like to place an order.

Operator: I must have your NIDN first, sir.

Customer: My National ID Number, yeah, hold on, eh, it's
6102049998-45-54610.

Operator: Thank you Mr. Sheehan. I see you live at 1742 Meadowland
Drive, and the phone number is 494-2366. Your office number over at
Lincoln Insurance is 745-2302 and your cell number is 266-2566. Email
address is [ mailto:sheehan@h... ]sheehan@h... . Which number
are you calling from sir?

Customer: Huh? I'm at home. Where'd you get all this information?

Operator: We're wired into the HSS, sir.

Customer: The HSS, what is that?

Operator: We're wired into the Homeland Security System, sir. This
will add only 15 seconds to your ordering time.

Customer: (sighs) Oh well, I'd like to order a couple of your All
Meat Special pizzas.

Operator: I don't think that's a good idea, sir.

Customer: Whaddya mean?

Operator: Sir, your medical records and commode sensors indicate that
you've got very high blood pressure and extremely high cholesterol.
Your National Health Care provider won't allow such an unhealthy
choice .

Customer: What?!?! What do you recommend, then?

Operator: You might try our low-fat Soybean Pizza.I'm sure you'll
like it.

Customer: What makes you think I'd like something like that?

Operator: Well, you checked out 'Gourmet Soybean Recipes' from your
local library last week, sir. That's why I made the suggestion.

Customer: All right, all right. Give me two family-sized ones, then

Operator: That should be plenty for you, your wife and your four kids.
Your 2 dogs can finish the crusts, sir. Your total is $49.99.

Customer: Lemme give you my credit card number.

Operator: I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid you'll have to pay in cash.
Your credit card balance is over its limit.

Customer: I'll run over to the ATM and get some cash before your
driver gets here.

Operator: That won't work either, sir. Your checking account is
overdrawn also.

Customer: Never mind! Just send the pizzas. I'll have the cash ready.
How long will it take?

Operator: We're running a little behind, sir. It'll be about 45
minutes, sir. If you're in a hurry you might want to pick'em while
you're out getting the cash, but then, carrying pizzas on a motorcycle
can be a little awkward.

Customer: Wait! How do you know I ride a scooter?

Operator: It says here you're in arrears on your car payments, so your
car got repo'ed. But your Harley's paid for and you just filled the
tank yesterday.

Customer: Well, I'll be a #%#^^&$%^$@#

Operator: I'd advise watching your language, sir. You've already got a
July 4, 2003, conviction for cussing out a cop and another one I see
here in September for contempt at your hearing for cussing at a judge
Oh yes, I see here that you just got out from a 90 day stay in the
State Correctional Facility. Is this your first pizza since your
return to society?

Customer: (speechless)

Operator: Will there be anything else, sir?

Customer: Yes, I have a coupon for a free 2 liter of Coke.

Operator: I'm sorry sir, but our ad's exclusionary clause prevents us
from offering free soda to diabetics. The New Constitution prohibits
this. Thank you for calling Pizza Hut.
 
2005-02-22 02:09:32 PM
This is a sad day for this school," said Tina Jones. Her kindergarten son didn't see the badge as a nuisance. It made him feel safer

Is it just me or was this the only parent endorsing this? Paid endorser? Corporate Shill?

Lot of people though are highly upset about it and they have that right to get upset about something such as this. It doesn't specify the range of those transmitters but how long before they would implement something that not only registered when your kid walks through the door but wherever they are at within a certain radius of the receiver?
Is that even possible? I mean right now it must work up to so many feet within the school but if you increased the power wouldn't that result in mutant freakish high school students?
Oh wait that is what happens when puberty sets in.
 
2005-02-22 02:10:40 PM
School should be optional, want to learn? Go. Want to be a dumbass? Don't go.

Bam, improved schools around the globe.
 
2005-02-22 02:11:41 PM
ACLU has a point, here, however poorly they may articulate it. If the kids become accustomed to wearing what amounts to tracking devices while they're at school, they won't think twice about having them in college, or in their passports, or driver's licenses, or implanted in their shoulders.
Call tinfoil if you want, but it's only paranoia if you're afraid they did it without asking. What really scares me is when it's required, and no one thinks twice. Unfortunately, it starts small- who isn't for making schools safe and more efficient? Who wouldn't like to get through passport control faster? Why not have those tolls paid automatically? Heck, why not combine all those functions in something I don't even have to keep track of?

Slippery slope, indeed.
 
2005-02-22 02:11:52 PM
This only serves to reinforce the idea in young, impressionable minds that it's ok for authority figures to track your whereabouts. When they get older and the government decides to implement mandatory, national GPS, then they won't see anything wrong with it like the rest of the sheep.
 
2005-02-22 02:11:58 PM
Town Gives Brave New World an F
# When an elementary school required students to wear radio frequency IDs, some parents saw the specter of Big Brother.


Can you spot the mixed metaphor?

- HC
 
2005-02-22 02:12:06 PM
busy chillin':
Operator: I must have your NIDN first, sir.

Wasn't that part of that ACLU flash ani they had on their site to try and scare folks who are too lazy to cook for themselves?

/can't trust an organization that defends NAMBLA
 
2005-02-22 02:12:07 PM
Have everyone give their card to the dorky kid who won't cut class no matter what. He goes to class, everyone gets recorded as present while in fact they are out getting drunk in the parking lot. If the teacher (hopefully) complains/cares point out that computers are never wrong therefore all the kids were in class.

Er... at least in high school. I would hope that 7th graders aren't out getting drunk in the parking lot. A few swipes with a heavy magnet would probably do wonders as well.

I'm glad that we homeschool our kids.
 
2005-02-22 02:12:20 PM
Then why do parents get arrested when their kids repeatedly don't show up for school?

Parents goto jail when they fail to report to court in response to their childs attendance not because of their childs attendance.
 
2005-02-22 02:12:22 PM
Mark the calendar, one of the first times I've ever been on the ACLU's side.
 
2005-02-22 02:13:02 PM
dolemite30: Frank N Furter needs to GO!

you got dat right.... thats farkin scary.
 
2005-02-22 02:14:22 PM
Bah, just wrap them in tinfoil.
Of course you know some smart ass programmer is going to make the embeded code prefix 666, just because he thinks it's funny. I know I would if I ever got one of those projects, and I am a smart ass programmer.
 
2005-02-22 02:14:41 PM
A few random thoughts from the article....

[i] Toni Scrogin was among the picketers. "I have not been convinced this is safe for my child," she said.[/i]

Yes - because radio waves are such a new thing....

[i]He liked the badge idea because it would streamline the taking of attendance, giving teachers a few minutes more each day to teach and boost accuracy[/i]

Sounds reasonable to me...

[i]They waded in to warn the district in a Feb. 7 letter that radio ID badges could put children at risk to stalkers with scanners.[/i]

Mein Gott in Himmel! No telling what a stalker could do with a randomly generated 15 digit number!!!! Why - they might even use it to umm... that is... errr...

[i]"Badges badges. We Don't Need No Stinkin' Badges," said one.[/i]

Bonus points for using that quote....
 
2005-02-22 02:14:59 PM
If government schooling is a right, then why were there no government schools in this country for almost 100 years? Show me in the Constitution where the right to an education is?

Bottom line is, the schools are not there to baby sit or indoctrinate, they are there to educate. If people are going to have children, they need to plan for their education from the beginning, and be a part of it to the end. Dropping the little darlings off in the morning and expecting some underpaid government employee to do their job is not the way it is supposed to be.

BTW, I have no children and pay for the school taxes, too.
 
2005-02-22 02:15:23 PM
oops - forgot which board I was on - bad tags, bad!
 
2005-02-22 02:15:24 PM
RFID tags are basically passive. They need to be activated receiving RF energy, which they then re-radiate. The readers themselves are short range. A school-wide system to track every students current location would be too expensive to implement. It could be used for access control, and to tell if a student has entered/left the building. They would be useless for tracking a student who walked off campus (other than, of course, letting you know it happened).

It won't take long until a genius student figures out that wrapping the thing in tinfoil will completely negate any tracking ability, and then tell their friends about it. That, or keeping it in an Altoids tin.

The more technology you try to use, the more crippled you are when someone with a little knowledge puts it to use.

/Had a set of keys for the school
//Surreptiously, of course.
///Amazing what you can do with a key blank, a file, and a tracing of the master keys.
 
2005-02-22 02:15:29 PM
Yes ladies and Gentlemen, even California has Rednecks, but I digress..

Impressed, school trustees last October agreed to expand the project. They held a public hearing, but virtually no parents attended. In exchange for allowing it on campus, InCom promised unspecified royalties from future sales.

This passage right here is what is wrong with the system and why the American public in general has absolutely no one to blame for themselves for the world we have today and the future we seemingly are literally hurtling towards.

No one goes to town meetings, or school board hearings unless it has something to do with shrubbery or right of way bullshiat and yet we love to biatch when these local politicians, who have the most direct effect on our lives out of ANY of the levels of government we elect, pass sh*t like this.

The American public needs to wake the f*ck up.
 
2005-02-22 02:15:32 PM
and what ctenidae said is the entire point here. If you want people to start allowing national id tags to be the norm, you need to indoctrinate children that it's OK and normal to wear tags everywhere you go. For the same reason teenagers and twentysomethings have no problem being patted down before they walk into a concert, wheras thirty and fortysomethings are disgusted by it.

Start 'em when they're young... gently introduce things... then you can add more.
 
2005-02-22 02:16:16 PM
Hmmmmm guinea pig... the other white meat.

 
2005-02-22 02:17:30 PM
ctenidae:

If the kids become accustomed to wearing what amounts to tracking devices while they're at school, they won't think twice about having them in college, or in their passports, or driver's licenses, or implanted in their shoulders.

Well, they already carry cell phones, PDAs, handheld game systems, MP3/iPod players... they think that all cars are supposed to have GPS nav systems and DVD players... and that cable TV is a "right".

We lost the kids all a long time ago.
 
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