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(Buffalo News)   10,000 Detroit auto workers are being paid full wages and benefits--to sit on their asses and not work   (buffalonews.com) divider line 308
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19997 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2005 at 12:30 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-02-06 12:04:08 PM
It's not tax money is it? Why complain?
 
2005-02-06 12:05:17 PM
I grew up around there, and have many family members either working or retired from "the big three."

/This article could have been written on any day of past 40 years.
 
2005-02-06 12:05:18 PM
While some UAW workers say they like being paid for not working, others say they find it frustrating and embarrassing.

I'd find it embarrassing to be a member of the union in the first place. It appears that unions exist to insure that stupid/unemployable people have jobs, too - just look at the US Postal Workers' unions.
 
2005-02-06 12:05:22 PM
I want that job.
 
2005-02-06 12:06:24 PM
gopher321: It's not tax money is it? Why complain?

Ever wondered why cars cost so much? Now you know...
 
2005-02-06 12:06:55 PM
Welcome to the slowly dieing last grip stronghold of the unions in michigan..

Man I'm happy to see these things go away..
 
2005-02-06 12:14:01 PM
Yet another Union 'success' story.
 
2005-02-06 12:19:47 PM
Caradoc:

I'd find it embarrassing to be a member of the union in the first place. It appears that unions exist to insure that stupid/unemployable people have jobs, too - just look at the US Postal Workers' unions.

That's exactly why unions exist - they protect the lazy. There's absolutely no reason to work extra-hard or do a batter-than-average job when you're in a union. Promotions are based on seniority, so even if you're an expert you could have a total moron as your boss because he's been on the job two years longer than you.
 
2005-02-06 12:21:17 PM
Meh,,,Farkers do that every day.
 
2005-02-06 12:21:39 PM
wtf do you suppose the outcome of all this automation in manufacturing will be? i think we're seeing it. we need a new paradigm assholes.
 
2005-02-06 12:29:46 PM
the0ther: we need a new paradigm assholes.

Not sure I'm following you, here - are you saying that because someone has only one skill, and they've been replaced by automation that somehow the world owes them a living?
 
2005-02-06 12:30:05 PM
Caradoc: Ever wondered why cars cost so much? Now you know...


Ah. This certainly explains why imports cost so much more...oh wait, no it doesn't.
 
2005-02-06 12:34:44 PM
it's my dream job
 
2005-02-06 12:34:47 PM
Sure it does. Imports charge more BECAUSE THEY CAN.

Given the choice between $COST for an American car, or $COST_PLUS_MARKUP for an import that actually shows signs of decent engineering, which would you buy?

If the American cars didn't cost as much as they currently do (thanks to lazy farks who like to pick up paychecks for not doing anything) then the median market prices would be lower - and the imports would cost less, too.

The other problem is that imports have tariffs on them, imposed to protect the lazy farks. That jacks the price up, too.

Eliminate the unions. Pricing will return to some semblance of "normal."
 
2005-02-06 12:35:47 PM
They been doing that for years..
 
2005-02-06 12:35:52 PM
how do i work in a union?
 
2005-02-06 12:36:03 PM
Yeah, down with workers rights! Down with negotiated contracts! Up with seasonal layoffs!
 
2005-02-06 12:36:13 PM
Anyone complaining about this is just bitter that they don't get the same benefits.
 
2005-02-06 12:36:15 PM
re: 'we need a new paradigm assholes.'

Is it time yet for the 'leisure economy' we've been promised for a hundred years?
I'm ready!
The 'work ethic' is just another stupid idea become obsolete.
 
2005-02-06 12:37:33 PM
work in a union?

You don't.
 
2005-02-06 12:37:46 PM
BeerNut: Anyone complaining about this is just bitter that they don't get the same benefits.

Um, no. Bitter about paying out-of-pocket for some lazy fark? Yep. Bitter that I don't get to BE that lazy fark? Not at all.
 
2005-02-06 12:37:56 PM
how do i work in a union?

You don't.
 
2005-02-06 12:38:09 PM
are you saying that because someone has only one skill, and they've been replaced by automation that somehow the world owes them a living?


Well, that's pretty much the Unions' view in a nutshell. What I think is funny is watching the Union reps sit next to the anti-industry eco-nuts at DNC events/party rallys. The looks on their faces is always worth watching....
 
2005-02-06 12:38:37 PM
UAW = U Ain't Workin!
 
2005-02-06 12:38:45 PM
gopher321

no, this explains why a chevy cavalier costs almost as much as that well built honda, even though it's only worth half as much

 
2005-02-06 12:38:49 PM
Cripes sparty, you're quick on the draw.
 
2005-02-06 12:39:03 PM
Ayn Rand surrenders....
 
2005-02-06 12:39:18 PM
If they really wanted to, they could expand business and create jobs for them.
 
2005-02-06 12:39:49 PM
mods, could I have a little help closing my bold tag? thanks, my bad.
 
2005-02-06 12:41:46 PM
I used to get worked up over stories like these. But after reading over and over about obscenely huge payouts, bonuses, etc. to management, CEO's, of big corporations, while they happily ship our jobs abroad, I say good for the autoworkers.

Unions will make a comeback. Only because corporate America is getting so abusive.

Unless you all want to live your lives in "Office Space"?
 
2005-02-06 12:41:53 PM
barfmaker--23 seconds!
 
2005-02-06 12:42:06 PM
Welcome to the slowly dieing last grip stronghold of the unions in michigan..

Man I'm happy to see these things go away..



yeah me too. i liked it better when companies could just abuse there workers at will. man those were the days.

seriously, why is anyone complaining that a seller-buyer relationship is arranged in such a way as to have idle workers? if you belong to neither group, it shouldn't matter to you.
 
2005-02-06 12:43:26 PM
I think it's worth noting that none of the Japanese car manufacturers that have plants in the U.S. have been successfully unionized, and it isn't for lack of effort on the unions' part. They have tried multiple times and failed, probably because companies like Honda, Toyota and Nissan provide good pay and benefits and a great work environment, thus negating the employees' need for "protection" from a union. Maybe the Amercan car companies should take a page out of that book, but my feeling is that the unions are so firmly entrenched that it would be one hell of a fight to get rid of them.
 
2005-02-06 12:43:39 PM
when detroit makes cars like honda and toyota, i'll gladly buy them.
 
2005-02-06 12:44:22 PM
seriously, why is anyone complaining that a seller-buyer relationship is arranged in such a way as to have idle workers?

Because it's bad economics.
 
2005-02-06 12:44:24 PM
i live in in a town on I-69 between lansing and flint, and work in east lansing. You can see the ill effects of union socialism throughout the state, especially in areas with high union membership.

unions breed bad, lazy, uneducated workers. They also create an atmosphere which is not conducive to efficient work between management and the work force. Unions served a purpose, once upon a time when work conditions were poor and people were dying to machinery and bad safety conditions. Unions serviced a purpose when workers were working more than 40 hours a week, and there were no labor laws protecting the worker. But these days, there are laws in place which protect workers from employers.

That said, michigan is an "at-will" employment state. This allows an employer to fire an employee for any reason, but I don't have a problem with this. Any employer who treats his employees poorly will sew their own seeds of corporate failure. Unions suck, and I think GM and all the auto workers have a ripe work environment taking shape where they can just hire scabs to take the place of these lazy auto workers.

Part of the reason, though, that so many are being paid to do nothing is because of the modernization of car assembly. There is a new robotics facility in Delta Township, Michigan which is going up. it reflects the future of car assembly; where you don't need a hundred people to work a car line, but rather a few dozen and robots. In a way, the excess workers are just being paid because they are losing their jobs to automation. Should workers be protected from the relentless march of technology making their jobs obsolete? i don't know.
 
2005-02-06 12:44:30 PM
2005-02-06 12:36:03 PM lagged_variable

Yeah, down with workers rights! Down with negotiated contracts! Up with seasonal layoffs!


Got no problem with the first two...that's life. As for the third, when you engage in a job that requires no special education, mental or physical attributes aside from a pulse, well, them's the breaks.

Guess what, the guy that mows the lawn every summer gets a "seasonal layoff" too. In has case, he goes and gets >gasp!ANOTHER JOB!
 
2005-02-06 12:44:56 PM
lol @ Elvis_Bogart

truth.
 
2005-02-06 12:45:17 PM
And people wonder why American cars suck.
 
2005-02-06 12:45:40 PM
I didn't read the article, duh, but why not just fire these lazy bastards? What are they going to do, strike?
 
2005-02-06 12:46:15 PM
Am I supposed to be outraged about this or something? Why?
 
2005-02-06 12:46:34 PM
kingOFgEEEks:

no, this explains why a chevy cavalier costs almost as much as that well built honda, even though it's only worth half as much

really? it does? how much does it cost to make a chevy cavalier? how much does it cost to make a well built honda ?

or are you confusing the cost to purchase with the cost to manufacture? if you mean that both cars are priced the same, that means that consumers are willing to pay the same for them. the price is ultimately determined by the market with little or no influence by the union.
 
2005-02-06 12:47:05 PM
Glad I'm in a right to work state. It must be infuriating to live up north and be forced to put up with this crap everywere.
 
2005-02-06 12:48:15 PM
one more reason to buy my cars from Germans.
 
2005-02-06 12:49:01 PM
Weaver95:

seriously, why is anyone complaining that a seller-buyer relationship is arranged in such a way as to have idle workers?

Because it's bad economics.


how? is it "good" economics to have to recuit, screen, and train new workers when demand picks up? you should look into operations and supply chain management - especially idle time, bottlenecks, and variability of demand - before throwing out you "bad/good" economics labels.
 
2005-02-06 12:50:36 PM
If Delphi's cost per worker is near the average - about $130,000 per person for full wages and benefits - then Detroit's three automakers and Delphi are paying those 10,000 workers about $1.3 billion in a year. Auto analysts note that's a cost foreign automakers like Toyota, Honda or Nissan don't have.

Yeah, they also pay their executives a hell of a lot less, and have a lower standard of living, which means they pay less to their employees.

But those couldn't possibly be contributory causes!!
 
2005-02-06 12:50:48 PM
adler: when detroit makes cars like honda and toyota, i'll gladly buy them.

You better run out and buy one then. Honda and Toyota are near the bottom of the JD Power initial quality survey.

http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7086
 
2005-02-06 12:51:29 PM
Ridiculous. But totally believable.

The Dodge Caravan, Chrysler Town and Country, and the Ford Triton engine are produced here in Windsor. The local economy depends on the Big Three to stay alive, and a fair proportion of the city's population are affiliated with the Canadian Autoworkers' Union.

It's embarrassing to see what they get away with. The Chrysler and Ford plants are the only places I can think of, where employees routinely drink on the job, and get away with it. Workers damn sure punch in on time, but once the clock starts, what they do is totally up in the air.

Don't get me wrong, though. The workers on the assembly line are genuinely hard workers. They spend 8-12 hours a day, performing the same drudgery, go home, sleep, wake up, and repeat. How exactly they don't lose their minds, is totally beyond me.

However, workers in, say, the trim shop, are paid to do f*ck all.

On the other hand, comments like this:

Caradoc: I'd find it embarrassing to be a member of the union in the first place.

Are just silly.
 
2005-02-06 12:51:45 PM
Usually
Avoiding
Work
 
2005-02-06 12:52:41 PM
puckhead: one more reason to buy my cars from Germans.

"The Chrysler Group has the second-highest number in the jobs bank, with an estimated 3,000 workers there, including 2,000 in the United States and about 1,000 in Canada."

Chrysler, as in DaimlerChrysler.
 
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