bbcrackmonkey

The US isn't going to invade Iran. If we attack Iran, it will be with massive air power, destroying their nuclear facilities and their command and control structure, and blowing the crap out of their conventional forces that would be summoned to put down rebellions that would probably spring up.

This is the only way things could move forward, the rest of your post is way off.

Atacking Iran won't weaken it, it will strengthen it because both sides, traditionalsts and reformers, will band together against 'The Great Satan'.

If the coalition is still in Iraq, our forces will be swamped with this pan-arab wave of hatred. September 11th will pale into nothing as the rest of the west will see incidents similar to those faced by Israel, and probably on the same frequency.

We risk making this into a crusade, this will be farked for all of us.

I can't figure out what is funnier, the fact that a new term "neo-con" has evolved which represents a group of conservatives who are more liberal than Bill Clinton, or that so called conservatives actually defend this position.

GARYPDX

the more i read your mindless stupid rretard comments the more i wish u were dead. I hope u r raped by a female islamic and then murdered by her husband, by tearing your limbs from your body and beating your with them untill u have no blood or he actually killed you with them. Then i hope god sends you to hell for being an asshole to other people and fervently trying to start fights amongst your own fellow citizens. When in hell i hope you are made to watch indian movies for the rest of your life while drinking antifreeze with a bunch of native indians and fed african food and not allowed to see one person of your own race for at least 1 billion earth years. at that time you will be realeased into a crowd of people your own race that hate your and you will live there for the rest of eternity.

tis the beginning of the end.....hey, 200+ years aint bad!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW
!

Send in the Jews..They don't put up with no shiat from these clowns..

Ex-patriate Eraser.

Interesting that you bring up Chalabi, eraser8.

It turns out the CIA claims about him turned out to be false..

Just another botched attempt by the CIA to CIA.

(I'm biased, but I'm not oblivious).

rush22,

Hyggelig said:
Do you understand that any diplomatic solution is no doubt going to be used to bolster the Mullah's control over their failed state,

You said:
Define "failed state."

/neo-cons have buzz words. they like to bounce them.

Contemplate the following:
neo-cons have buzz words
See it yet?

Ok let's try again?
neo-cons have buzz words

No, still not getting it?
neo-cons have buzz words

Warmer?
neo-cons have buzz words

Almost?
neo-cons have buzz words

Yes, now you got it... you just enjoyed the clean cool taste of a obviously self satirizing statement.

Blindman

Oooo....you think you scored some kind of point? I just said our involvement with that part of the world is about oil, money, and power. I think you agree with me. Its very clear why we have interest, we want their oil. My "high minded dismissal" is aimed that those that think we are there to bring freedom and democracy only. Its still about the oil. Nothing more, nothing less.

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in its possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave anything in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world"
- Former Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani (December 14, 2001)


If Iran flings a nuke, expect Israel to fling them back. Do you expect the theocrats running Iran are going to make completely rational decisions if they are in the possession of nuclear weapons? Are they religious fanatics willing to throw away a few million people in their effort to cleanse the Middle East of the 'Zionist entity'? Is trying to head that possibility off a worthwhile U.S. strategic aim?

Lebowski

Dude... you're being very un-dude.

does anybody want to give me a predicted time line of how things will go down e.g.
iran threatens US to STFU
US laughs
israel launches strike on iran (full US support)
iran fires back
iran vs israel full on war
europe moans
iran attacks US iraqi forces
Bush tell US forces to move in to strategic position for defense against iran
the saudi's wanting attention launch nuke at someone
pakistan and india MAD's each other
russia moving in to take over some lame nations
US warns russia to stay away
japs/china (one against us) sides with russia
NK lauches at jap/china (whoever supports US more)
that nation lauches back
russia takes out that nation
we take out russia

/those cold war, end of the world stories make me feel all warm inside

eraser8

I would think the lessons of Ahmed Chalabi would have been sufficient to teach us why it's a bad idea to rely on exiles for advice.

We're back to being pro-Chalabi btw.

GoodDamon, apparently you aren't quite understanding the situation. I know it sounds complicated and everything, but try to listen for a second.

Iran is hostile to the US.
Iran does not currently have nukes.
Iran is currently working on nukes.
Iran will eventually have nukes.

Attacking a country that has nukes = bad because you get blown up with nukes
Attacking a country before it gets nukes = good because then there's no threat of you getting blown up with nukes

Is that clear?

Khatami has promised reform but has delivered nothing (well, he got a free press temporarily, but that was cracked down on quickly). He's nothing but a tool to the mullahs.

Google Iranians, democracy, students, Khatami, bloggers and you shut the fark up, you disillusioned bile filled slimeball. You know nothing about Iran and its history.

Wow. I missed this thread all day 'cuz I had to work. Egads....

Let me join right in then.

Bush will undertake any endeavor if it results in profits for his family, his cabinet or his backers. See his current spending program and his "new" old agenda to verify this. Any program he has for new or major spending will directly or indirectly line the pockets of one of the above three groups.

People that vote for Bush may have upstanding values. But make no mistake. Bush and this administration do not. You've been scammed. Period.

A Midnight Bout of Frenzied Concupiscence:

Ummm, you still haven't responded to everyone's comments about the resolutions working, there are no WMDs in Iraq.

Bush supporters have a real selective memory.

He hasn't I will. The sanctions where there for Iraq / Saddam Hussain to provide proof of the destruction of the Biological and Chemical weapons that were known to exist prior to his invastion of Kuwait. That government never provided the proof that the weapons where destroyed.
Saddam bluffed and sometimes when you bluff the other guy blinks.... and sometimes he don't.

21-7-b

you've really disappointed me over the last couple of weeks.

You and I have not had a single exchange in the last couple of weeks. Though, prior, we've both trolled each other on occasion.

another mindless bible-beltesque flamer!

Weak, you farkle your ideas often? Im not looking to win an argument or flame you up. Im interested in discourse that changes minds (maybe mine). Try to avoid the personal attacks, they discredit your effort to be worldly. I sincerely asked you to support your assertion that Irans nuclear development is not a threat or is honorable in some way. If you have the evidence, Im sincerely interested in listening. Ive already agreed with you that diplomacy of respect is the best course if you have credible evidence.

perry_mason

HOORRRRAYYY!!! LOL

How about this, I am a soldier and I say burn, baby burn.

Your grandchildren will thank you.

That's easy to say... if you're 40 and have kids already. But if I'm 18-21 and don't have kids, looking towards a likely draft and my expected death in or around Iran, how exactly am I doing this for "my" grandchildren? I think you mean I'm doing it for "your" grandchildren.

And of course Iran will never scrap their nuclear program. This story deserves the OBVIOUS tag and not the DUMBASS tag.

perry_mason: those cold war, end of the world stories make me feel all warm inside


[shudder] Thanks man. I'm not gonna sleep tonight. Lining it up like that makes it seem all to real.

Trouble is, the idiot at the helm doesn't realize what can go down because of his arrogant posturing.

Why does a country that exports 4 million barrels of oil per DAY need a nuclear energy program?

Yeesh.

By the way, for those of you who are interested in learning about the history of modern Iran, might I suggest "The Persian Puzzle" by Kenneth Pollack and Erik Durschmied's "Blood of Revolution.

The US's hands are not clean, but they aren't nearly as dirty as projected in the popular narrative that surrounds US-Iranian involvement. The British, however, were particularly immoral in their dealings with Iran. But Iran was also fundamentally flawed by poor leadership.

No easy answers in foreign policy.

I'm going back to my alcohol now.

217b,

Boro khodeto bokon

Half Man Half Biscuit, you're correct in that there is almost no chance of a Revolution succeeding in Iran if we bomb it.

However, you're incorrect about all the terrorist attacks that we would get swamped with were we to attack Iran. Every time America was about to invade a Muslim country, people would claim it would create a thousand Bin Ladens. Those thousand Bin Ladens never really panned out in Afghanistan or Iraq, did they? It would increase the number of attacks in Iraq but hopefully by then the Iraqi police and national guard could handle it.

"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace."

-Buddha

eraser8, I think it's safe to say that any plan involving "and then the people will rise up" is a bad plan.

NCRider
Trouble is, the idiot at the helm doesn't realize what can go down because of his arrogant posturing.

i guess "the idiot" is Bush but come on you shouldnt give him all the credit we have the nuts in the middle east to thank as well ;-)

bbcrackmonkey

Those thousand Bin Ladens never really panned out in Afghanistan or Iraq, did they?

What, they're supposed to appear within two years or they don't exist at all?

Let's not be too quick to judge yet... time will tell.

Lets not make the same mistake we made in Iraq by sending in troops. Nuke em till they glow, then shoot them in the dark!!!

USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!

How about we try not to use so much farking oil, mind our own GD business, and get the fark out of the Middle East? The world doesn't need the US playing carpet-bombing-policeman. Let the Canucks play Peacekeeper. They seem to have a better handle on how not to be universally despised.

There they go again! Damned excitable NeoCons!

All this talk reminds me of something.



/Please see my previous posts for real thoughts and opinions

I wish people would stop whining and start posting what they think a good solution is. If you think you're cute go ahead and post "Bush should be impeached, removed, and prosecuted, that's my solution blah blah", that isn't going to happen. I mean, what would you do right now about Iraq, Iran, and North Korea? Not what you would have done- what you would do now.

mindbuzz

I just said our involvement with that part of the world is about oil, money, and power. I think you agree with me.

Eating lunch is about providing your body with useful chemicals it can't do without. But it might also be about taking a break from work, hanging out with friends, or conducting business. Because something serves one purpose does not mean it does not serve any other.

Its very clear why we have interest, we want their oil. My "high minded dismissal" is aimed that those that think we are there to bring freedom and democracy only. Its still about the oil. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's also about oil, which is an entirely legitimate concern, and one every participant in the western international economy (read: everyone posting here) shares regardless of if they realize it or not. If that's what you are saying, and you aren't assigning any blame or making claim to moral superiority, we're on the same page.

perry_mason: we have the nuts in the middle east to thank as well


You're absolutely right. But I kinda think if there's a rabid dog living down the street, I don't wanna jump in his yard, take a crap, stick out my tongue at him and piss in his water bowl. That's something idiot kid next door would do.

What scares me is that the idiot kid now lives in the Whitehouse.

boy, the neocon idiots sure don't get it.

Alright, Kiddies, get ready to be drafted! It will be loads of fun! And don't worry, the pain of losing a limb and suffering from unknown syndrome brought on exposure to unknown toxins will be nothing compared to the hours of too hot and too cold boredom punctuated by sheer terror while one by one many of your friends die right in front of you while the everyday horror of seeing things such as bloodied and mangled child corpses lined up in a row and left to rot in the street slowly sucks away the few remaining traces of your humanity. Party on!

Christian Confederate States of Jesusland

Land mass: Arkansas, Oklahoma, Alamaba, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina.

President: Jerry Falwell
Vice President: Pat Robertson
Supreme Council: Fred Phelps, Ralph Reed, Tammy Faye, Jim Jones, Dr. Laura, Jim Bakker.

Nuclear status: Pending...

Anyone in here who would be more than happy to allow the Christian Confederate States of Jesusland obtain nukes, raise your hand.

bbcrackmonkey

The big difference between the two states is Iraq was secular and Iran is a theocracy.

Ok, Iraq had some of the holy sites there, but I *really* don't want to whip-up the mullahs.

I lived in Kuwait between 82 and 85, Iraq was seen by everyone as being the good guys, Iran..... boy, even Kuwati's were shiatting themselves! Iranian mullahs have no problems issuing fatwas, for you Salman Rushdie was probably some quirky foreign news. In the UK it was a big thing.

Going in gung ho just isn't the right way.

Flame on!

Jeffy Jeff

Let the Canucks play Peacekeeper. They seem to have a better handle on how not to be universally despised.

Being universally irrelevant?

"[Chalabi] lobbied for the war for his own benefit and said whatever was necessary -- often at the expense of honesty -- to promote invasion."

Well, no wonder we can't stay mad at that guy! That's the kind of guy we here elect!!