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(MSNBC)   Iraq elections "a resounding success." You submitted this with a red-and-blue state headline   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 1432
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15272 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2005 at 3:45 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-30 06:16:37 PM
And don't forget the biggest hijack of genuine patriotism yet by people like you BBanzai : the idea that one must support Bush's military adventures to be a 'patriot'.

/But if it helps you feel better about yourself, I guess it's OK...
 
2005-01-30 06:16:44 PM
EnormousJuan:

I'm just glad it's the people who signed up to kill who are dying now, and not the aid workers. I don't want anyone to die, but at least it's a little more fair.

Yeah, everyone currently in the military "signed up to kill." Are you a troll or just retarded? Either way, STFU, bizatch.

And go get me a soda pop while you're at it.
 
2005-01-30 06:16:44 PM
And EnormousJuan is a huge cockbite for wishing death on our troops.
 
2005-01-30 06:17:00 PM
HeartBurnKid

Awarding representation to people who failed to vote contradicts the purpose of a representitive democracy. I would think that awarding more power to the Sunni's simply because they are raising more of a fuss and not because they voted in force (as the Kurds did) would do more damage Iraq as it would lead to the destablization of the Shiite and Kurdish factions.

However I do agree that more should have been done to include the Shii'te in the inital stages of the invasion. For one the elimination of all Baath members and the demoblization of the Iraqi army come to mind as pretty serious fark-ups (I list these in particular as the Shiites were holding disportionate senior memberships).

I also agree that Iraq is one long way away from being a "beacon of democracy".
 
2005-01-30 06:17:03 PM
You do realize the physical act of voting is just a small part of the democratic process
2005-01-30 06:14:05 PM The Bruce Dickinson
"Of course, but it is the most important part of the process!"

Like when Sadaam got 100% of the vote.
 
2005-01-30 06:17:08 PM
EnormousJuan

You're about as uninformed and lowdown as they get. Many of us volunteered because we believe that America is worth fighting for, and we're the best people to do it.

If you are libertarian (rolling my eyes), then you give them a bad name.
 
2005-01-30 06:17:13 PM
Enormous Jone

"I am not a liberal. I am a libertarian who is against this war with every fiber of my being."

If your a libertarian, why would you be against a war to free people under the yoke of an asshat like Saddam Hussein? Get over it. I hate war too, and i voted against bush, but reality is reality. Those are MY people over there fighting and dying. I am an American. AND I BELEIVE YOU ARE TOO! What has happened to make you feel so rejected by this government? Like really, what has Bush done to personally affect your life ASIDE from the fact that he sent a shiat load of our friends to fight and die on foreign soil for an obscure, but optimistic, cause? Besides that one glaring point....is there anything else

/oh yeah, our modern army is Volunteers. Volunteers with assault rifles are cool in my book...
 
2005-01-30 06:17:14 PM
"I said that most Iraqi muslims..."

*Checks you post* No, you didn't.

"fundamentalists who can't see the reasonable argument when their judgement is clouded by dogma, rhetoric, and indoctrination"

Nope, you didn't say that either.

"racial hatered, religious hatered. We have seen how good history is at eliminating those kinds of hatered, (it hasn't)"

OF course not, dumbass, history hasn't completely eliminated anything. But certainly you can admit that tolerance levels in most of the world are better now, than before.

"I use logic and reason to form a syllogistic argument, with historical, anthropologic, and sociologic facts as my premises."

What by saying that Iraq is eternally farked? Yeah great logic and reasoning, Socrates.

"I never said that I think Iraqis are inhuman hate-machines that are incapable of changing ideas,"

Yes you did, you said they will always hate and fight each other.

But go on believing you are right and Iraq is a total failure and nothing will good will ever come out of it, and the world is a horrible place with no sign of hope, and I will go on believing you are a dumbass.
 
2005-01-30 06:17:31 PM
Enormous Juan

your website is gay
 
2005-01-30 06:17:33 PM
"If this works out, 20 years from now, Bush could be hailed as one of the greatest American presidents ever. Won't that gall the left to no end?"

Heh. Speaking as a Liberal, I sure hope so. I would absolutely love to look back in 20 years and say "man were we wrong, the bush administration scared the shiat out of us when it was in power because if changed so much, so fast; but they were visionaries."

I really hope you're right. Coz if you're not, there are going to be an awful lot of body bags.
 
2005-01-30 06:18:07 PM
Espertron:

You're one sick bastard. I'm against the war in Iraq, but I sure as hell don't want our troops getting killed because of it.


Nobody does, and that's not what he said. I can't stand people who argue with emotion.
 
2005-01-30 06:18:09 PM
worthlessjuan:And we need a Godwin's Law for anyone who brings up the "W said they had WMD" crap. Everyone in the world agreed, until the UN's stonewalling gave them time to move them (if they were ever there). I still wonder where they are.

So what are you saying, that Bush didn't say they had WMDs? Or just that anyone who says something you don't like, truth or not, should STFU?

And not "everyone in the world" agreed; hell, not even everyone in America agreed, myself included. When I found out that Bush was making up IAEA reports out of thin air to support his case, I became aware that something was amiss. If everyone in the world agreed, we might have had a larger coalition going into this thing.

This passage: until the UN's stonewalling gave them time to move them (if they were ever there). I still wonder where they are. is particularly funny. Really trying to cover all of the bases there, aren't you sport? Even you're not sure they were ever there, but, dadblammit, if they weren't found, it must be the UN's fault! You're kinda conflicted, aren't you? Gee, I wonder why.
 
2005-01-30 06:18:14 PM
HeartBurnKid: And EnormousJuan is a huge cockbite for wishing death on our troops.

I think his cock bite would be rather small, don't you?
 
2005-01-30 06:18:18 PM
BBanzai:

nerfball, I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. Did you get me mixed up with someone else?


sorry, you cut from one of juan's posts. apologies. we need a function on fark to be able to buy another a farker a beer. when we get that, i owe you one. juan, on the other hand, gets no beer.
 
2005-01-30 06:19:14 PM
No offense, but a lot of you people need to look up the definition of 'libertarianism.'

/I think you might be surprised.
 
2005-01-30 06:19:47 PM
2005-01-30 05:15:51 PM CreepyConservative

Kerry's grudging response to these elections reminds me of Howard Dean's grudging response to the capture of Saddam Hussein. It's like they're afraid to celebrate a genuine victory for the country just because it also helps a political opponent. Just because it isn't a final victory yet doesn't mean you can't celebrate it.

Oh, and with regards to your reference to Democratic Underground, get a load of this. A couple of people actually understand that it's stupid to ID terrorists as legitimate freedom fighters, and one of them gets his post deleted.

Sadly typical of the DU crowd.
 
2005-01-30 06:20:06 PM
Creepy Conservative - Dude, have you been following the press accounts of the Iraqi election? People are dancing in the streets both in Iraqi and every country that is set up for ex-pat voting. People are risking death to go vote in these elections. People are standing in lines for hours to cast a vote, something they haven't really done in 30-odd years. Yahoo images is full of people crying because they are finally able to vote.

I dare say they do give a shiat about us helping them out.


Okay, I'll concede to that point, but I have a feeling that once the security forces are trained, we'll be asked to leave without as so much a 'thank you.' Plus, since when was it the United States' job to liberate every oppressed nation?

If that is our job... then why don't we start with Saudi Arabia, probably one of the biggest, anti-american dictatorships in the world. But wait... whoa whoa whoa... they sell us oil. It's okay to invade Iran, but when it comes to a more rotten apple, I guess the words of MC Hammer ring true:

 
2005-01-30 06:22:06 PM
Demon of the Fall:

Awarding representation to people who failed to vote contradicts the purpose of a representitive democracy. I would think that awarding more power to the Sunni's simply because they are raising more of a fuss and not because they voted in force (as the Kurds did) would do more damage Iraq as it would lead to the destablization of the Shiite and Kurdish factions.

However I do agree that more should have been done to include the Shii'te in the inital stages of the invasion. For one the elimination of all Baath members and the demoblization of the Iraqi army come to mind as pretty serious fark-ups (I list these in particular as the Shiites were holding disportionate senior memberships).

I also agree that Iraq is one long way away from being a "beacon of democracy".


So, what you're saying is that we are in complete and total agreement. I just don't think things are going to get any better unless we can get the Sunnis to stop killing people and vote. And we failed to do that. Bush can call this election a "resounding success" all he wants, but it's not.
 
2005-01-30 06:22:25 PM
Churchy LaFemme:

No offense, but a lot of you people need to look up the definition of 'libertarianism.'


I didn't look that one up, but I found another:

1 entry found for tard

tard:
1) a person of subnormal intelligence [syn: idiot, imbecile, cretin, moron, changeling, half-wit]
2) EnormousJuan

TARD:
 
2005-01-30 06:22:44 PM
Churnin Urn of Burnin Funk:

Oh, OK. In that case, sorry Majorhopper. I guess it was a little vague.


You're a good person. I finally updated my profile to reflect what I've learned from this event. Thanks!
 
2005-01-30 06:23:15 PM
JoeJack - Nobody can prove anything either way, but in the deepest part of my gut I am positive Bush lied to us about WMDs so he could start this war. He started a war in my name, and I sure do hope that 20 years down the line he turns out to be right, because I am honestly more scared now than I was when 9/11 happened. Our troops should be home, guarding our nation. Not 1/2 way across the world. If we needed to free some people, why not Sudan? The things being done to the followers of CHristianity there are worse than alot of the things Saddam ever did.
 
2005-01-30 06:23:20 PM
Father_Jack
Heh. Speaking as a Liberal, I sure hope so. I would absolutely love to look back in 20 years and say "man were we wrong, the bush administration scared the shiat out of us when it was in power because if changed so much, so fast; but they were visionaries."

Well, here's the test: Now that you've had almost 20 years to think back on it, what are your opinions of Ronald Reagan's time in office? Was it as bad as the Democrats at the time were claiming?
 
2005-01-30 06:23:29 PM
What the Iraqi's need now, more than anything is a dose of good old fashioned American sports!

Since they have plenty of sand, beach volleyball would be a good start...



 
2005-01-30 06:23:32 PM
Need I show more? For the occation they pic the nicest picture.

 
2005-01-30 06:23:57 PM
SilentStrider:

The original poster was saying the iraqi elections weren't such a great success of the deaths, I'm just pointing out we've had similar issues in our own past.

Ah. I see. Got it.

Ghost Rider:

Considering that a greater percentage of Iraqis turned out to vote today under threat of death than did our own American countrymen who turned out to vote for President, I'd definitely call today a resounding success.

Ya got a point there. It's a sad farking commentary about the apathy of American voters.

BBanzai:

To those of you who supported and continue to support the war, there is no point to trying to get the anti-war crowd to admit that anything in Iraq is a success. They will never admit it.

The hardcore anti-war crowd, perhaps. But for the rest of us, it's bullshiat. We can object to the war while at the same time recognize that some good will come of it.

However many liberals, (perhaps even you) do not like displays of patriotism.

You're an idiot. And a troll. Are you sure you aren't LawrencePerson, because you sure make the same kind of
lame-o comments. Dickheads like you seem to think that
if you're not a flag waving, Bush dick sucking, wearing
patriotism on our sleeves "patriot" then you're un-patriot.

Clue: there are many forms of patriotism, including the willingness to speak up when we think something is wrong with our country.

Here we go. The thread's liberals are upset when it appears that their patriotism has been questioned.

Nobody should have their patriotism questioned. Just because someone chooses to disagree with the policies put in play by our government or is critical of actions take doesn't make them unpatriotic.

EnormousJuan just let slip what all of the liberals in this thread are thinking. But don't you dare question his patriotism! Churchy will post more pictures of the Church lady!

Wow. Ladies and gentleman we have a mind reader among us. Mr. Know-it-all has divined that all of the liberals in this thread hold the same opinion as EnormousJuan. You'll have to tell us your secret, bonzo.
 
2005-01-30 06:24:30 PM
EnormousJuan - I hope you get incurable ass cancer
 
2005-01-30 06:24:33 PM
CreepyConservative - I remember my complaints were how he jacked up the penalties on drug-related crimes and how he stripped money from plans intended to help disenfranchised communities. So yeah...Reagan farked up.
 
2005-01-30 06:24:58 PM
No problem, nerfball. I think that we can both agree that EnormousJuan is a prick.
 
2005-01-30 06:25:09 PM
craig328:

Not finding the weapons doesn't equal "Bush lied". They're somewhere...and that ought to scare you.

First do you know the shelf life of most chemical weapons? Most of that stuff stays lethal for a couple years tops. After that you could not kill cockroaches with them.

Second if they are still out there and a danger to us then why has the search been called off? If your looking for a reason to be scared then be scared that are no longer activly looking for them.

Oh woops thats not an anti-liberal talking point so your probably not interested in that.
 
2005-01-30 06:25:27 PM
Churchy LaFemme:

No offense, but a lot of you people need to look up the definition of 'libertarianism.'


That's for sure.
 
2005-01-30 06:25:34 PM
...it sure worked today.

Unfortunately, credit cards work much the same way. I notice we Americans don't have much wisdom dealing with those, either.
 
2005-01-30 06:25:40 PM
EnormousJuan:

I am honestly more scared now than I was when 9/11 happened.

Yeah, if I was as big of a pussy as you, I would be scared too.
 
2005-01-30 06:26:07 PM
HeartBurnKid,

I missed your post -But if every single person had to participate in every vote and decision, a democracy would never work.
 
2005-01-30 06:26:25 PM
Wow, politics aside, this is just awesome. Try your hardest to imagine what it was like living in a dictatorship and today, for the first time in your life, you got to vote. Gives me chills.
 
2005-01-30 06:26:26 PM
I'm not sure why everyone is coming down on EnormousJuan. After all, whenever anyone brings up troop deaths, the Republicans' knee-jerk defensive reaction is, "Hey, they signed up, they knew what they were getting themselves into." Somehow, that's more symapthetic to the troops?
 
2005-01-30 06:26:36 PM
Bush is a fibber, Bush is a fibber. He lied, Americans died, Bush is a fibber.

Phfffftt!

/runs away laughing
//with fingers jammed into ears
///singing loudly
////slash slut
 
2005-01-30 06:27:01 PM
CreepyConservative:

Well, here's the test: Now that you've had almost 20 years to think back on it, what are your opinions of Ronald Reagan's time in office? Was it as bad as the Democrats at the time were claiming?

You should ask families in Central America that question.
 
2005-01-30 06:27:01 PM
craig328: There WERE stockpiles of sarin, botulinin, mustard gas, etc. So, where are they?

I'm glad you missed out on that whole Desert Storm conflict. What, were you taking a nap those two years?

So 30 or so people died today for the Iraqi vote. That is a shame...but how many people died on November 9? Considering that over 50,000 die every year from auto accidents, the average of 137 per day could also be applied directly to people going to vote.

Huh? This doesn't make a lick of sense. It's not that 30 total people in Iraq died today. It's that 30 total died who were voting. We're not including people who died due to unrelated sickness, old age, automobile accidents, etc. etc. Focus, Daniel-san! Focus!
 
2005-01-30 06:27:20 PM
EnormousJuan:

All you pro-war tax-drains are farking idiots for even thinking this would work. Hah! Hope it's YOUR SON out there dying.

Dude, that's totally farked up. Wishing death on anybody is just, well, totally farked up.

You also make yourself look like a complete extremist. If you are, I guess it's ok, but most of us are gonna dismiss you as a troll. If you're not you're looking like a real jerk.
 
2005-01-30 06:27:30 PM
epoch: You're a good person.

Thank you. =)
 
2005-01-30 06:27:34 PM
2005-01-30 06:23:20 PM CreepyConservative

Well, here's the test: Now that you've had almost 20 years to think back on it, what are your opinions of Ronald Reagan's time in office? Was it as bad as the Democrats at the time were claiming?


This should be good...considering Reagan ensured Central America didn't go communist...and those countries all seem to be doing fine today. Much better than any communist/marxist equivalent they might have become if not for his policies...which were panned by the left at the time.

Oh, let's not forget the end of the Soviet Union either. I seem to recall he had a hand in that too.

Yes, the responses to that should be enlightening.
 
2005-01-30 06:27:39 PM
Enormous Joan

Beleive me. I empathize with you. But Iraq was our fark up, and we had to fix it. What we have defending our homeland right now is the same thing we have had since the coldwar. The Nuclear Deterant. Now that is some WMD to be worried about. We could ash the planet twice over (not really). Look, Bush did lie, did hype evidence, and Colin Powell paid for it with his reputation. But this day in Iraq is a good day. And for the first time, im proud of the president

/nuff said
 
2005-01-30 06:28:14 PM
JoeJack:

If your a libertarian, why would you be against a war to free people under the yoke of an asshat like Saddam Hussein? Get over it.


Libertarians (me included) are for smaller goverment, as in, that which takes place outside our borders only gets addressed when its absolutley necessary to the continuity of our own system. War for profit, or War to respond to an ally is a big topic of debate. I support that 100%. That being said, SOMETHING had to be done about people doing crazy shiat like flying buildings into planes, and making serious threats to our allies and their interests/protectorates. The problem is so enormous that its possible that this really will be seen as the first stage of a global effort to rid itself of extremism - I have no idea. I think its too goddamn expensive, but I also have no idea what other choice there was. Over the past few decades we have tried everything from Begging to bribery to threats and it has made NO difference. TBH - I dont think anyone knows how to address this as its a completely bizzare problem to begin with, so I'm more tolerant of Bush's agenda than I would be if this were simply 'the Domino theory' rehashed.
 
2005-01-30 06:28:48 PM
Alright, now I get this war...

Seeing people that deserve to have a say in how their country is run be able to do so really gives me a warm fuzzy.

GWB should've just said that this was what it was all about all along, I'm sure that every one would have wanted to see this day if this mission was always focussed on spreading democracy and not that WMD horseshiat.

The man is an idiot savant - he's pulled the wool over the eye's of his own people to give another nation a chance at the kind of freedoms we enjoy in the west. Someone give the farker a nobel prize!

Even better, I'm not picking up the bill!
 
2005-01-30 06:28:58 PM
biagio:

Wow, politics aside, this is just awesome. Try your hardest to imagine what it was like living in a dictatorship and today, for the first time in your life, you got to vote. Gives me chills.

The constant gun-fire and explosions are still giving Iraqis chills.
 
2005-01-30 06:28:59 PM
CaptainFatass:

I'm not sure why everyone is coming down on EnormousJuan.

maybe because the consensus is that he is an idiot? ya think?
 
2005-01-30 06:29:39 PM
faethe:

hat being said, SOMETHING had to be done about people doing crazy shiat like flying buildings into planes,

I agree. But many of us feel that Iraq wasn't the right place to start. It wasn't really an immediate threat and it has, at best, tenous links to Al-Queda and 9/11.
 
2005-01-30 06:29:46 PM
Churchy, for the last time, I didn't say that you weren't patriotic if you didn't support the war. Take the time to read instead of posting lame pictures from 20 years ago.

If you are unable to follow the thread, go to sleep and wait for the short, yellow bus with the handicapped doors comes to take you to school tomorrow.
 
2005-01-30 06:29:48 PM
CaptainFatass:

I'm not sure why everyone is coming down on EnormousJuan. After all, whenever anyone brings up troop deaths, the Republicans' knee-jerk defensive reaction is, "Hey, they signed up, they knew what they were getting themselves into." Somehow, that's more symapthetic to the troops?

No, it's not, and that's why I hold the Neocons in the same kind of disdain as I hold EnormousJuan.
 
2005-01-30 06:29:53 PM
I guess I'll add my 2 cents. I served in the Army for 9 years. One of which was deployed to Bosnia. I spent a year away from my wife of 2 months and my daughter. Yes it sucks, but we performed our mission and today those people are much better off. Soldiers died, civilians died and people protested. Fact is, people will protest, regardless. If I wasn't already disabled from my previous military experience, I'd be the first in line to serve again. You'll find that most soldiers that are in because they believe in helping others are glad to be doing their mission. The ones that just wanted a college education are doing most of the whining.

Regardless of what you think of Bush (even though your wrong), We are doing good things over their. You might want to do a little reading on what MOST Iraqi's think and not what the BS Media here wants you to think.
 
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