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(MSNBC)   Iraq elections "a resounding success." You submitted this with a red-and-blue state headline   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 1432
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15272 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2005 at 3:45 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-30 04:51:55 PM
I agree with FNR_Thomas. This isn't a success - it's a prelude to civil war. The majority of eligible voters in Iraq have not voted, and many will never recognize the results of this election as "valid". There were almost NO international election observers (something about the risk of being blown up seems to put people off, for some reason), so how are we to conduct any sort of verification of the results? Oh yeah, that's not important to the Bush administration.... In that case, congratulations, you really HAVE brought a US-style democracy to Iraq. Hope they're happier with it than most of the US voters I know...
 
2005-01-30 04:52:19 PM
meystingray:

Most excellent!!! Hurrah for Iraq, hopefully our troops will be able to begin returning home soon, and hopefully Iraq will become a stable democracy. We may disagree on the reasons for the war, but we should all support self-determination anywhere. Iraq has been transformed from a brutal dictatorship into a fledgling democracy, hope it works out!

Everyone hopes it works out, but to call it a success the day of the elections is a bit premature. The idea that we can go in and bomb the shiat out of a tumultuous country, then force a democracy on them and have it work out, is plain stupid. Let's wait and see who won the election, and then see what happens. I have a hard time believing that if the insurgents don't like the result, they'll just go home and say "oh well". Realistically, we should wait several months before forming any sort of opinion on the success of this election. If it makes it that far, then wait for the drafting of the constitution and the first real election in December. The only news for now is that, today, there weren't as many attacks and resultant deaths as expected.
 
2005-01-30 04:52:49 PM
Sorry, I was away watching "Cowboy Bebop" from late last night.

CreepyConservative

So riddle me this: Why was Kerry saying that Saddam had WMD in 1998 when "ALL the intelligence was filtered" through the Clinton administration?

Lotsa people said that in 1998. The difference, and feel free to correct me in this, is that we were not going to war with Iraq over that issue.

Note that Bob Graham, who did have access to intelligence sources (which he could not share with his fellow dems) DID bote against authorizing Bush's war. And was as vocal about it as he could be.

I am not trying to take sides here, but in terms of believing Saddam had WDM's, there really weren't sides. You either swallowed the White House line, or got access to the actual intelligence, like Graham, and spit out the hook.
 
2005-01-30 04:52:50 PM
DinoVomit - ... has digressed into a moore bashing jerkfest.
He just threw up the white flag. Leave him alone.
 
2005-01-30 04:53:00 PM
LawrencePerson:

Certainly the folks over at MoveOn.org couldn't possibly think Michael Moore is a liberal hero. It's not like they conducted a massive astroturfing campaign for Fahrenheit 9/11.

Oh, wait. They did.


What the hell are you babbling about man??

"OMG A WEBSITE SUPPORTED MICHAEL MOORE SO HE IS THE LIBERAL HEROO!!!!"

You sound like a child. Michael Moore is no hero of mine, or my party.
 
2005-01-30 04:53:26 PM
Tinian,

Aw dude, that was perfect. Simply perfect use of that caption and that pic...still chuckling.

/buys tinian a virtual beer
 
2005-01-30 04:53:52 PM

Yeah, hit us on the left with some facts. Please Do.

"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."
- Colin powell February 24, 2001

We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.
- Condoleezza Rice speaking on CNN, June, 2001

"A US policy of containment has effectively disarmed Hussein. He has not been able to build his military back up or to develop weapons of mass destruction for the last 10 years. America has been successful in keeping him in a box."
- Colin Powell, on May 15th, 2001
 
2005-01-30 04:55:36 PM
I'm just afraid as things stay tough over there and Bush's rating continue to slide that he'll eventually do the politically expedient thing and declare 'victory' and pull out, leaving things worse than they are now...
 
2005-01-30 04:56:33 PM
Rock on, Iraq, rock on.
 
2005-01-30 04:56:49 PM
Although democracy is a good thing, I have a feeling that this isn't going to bring any american troops home any sooner. This was more of a PR exercise than anything else. A successfull one, mind you, but there's not going to be an substantive change in the situation there. The boycott of the election by the minority faction is a signal that not all Iraqis are willing to move on in this fashion.

I have a question for all those who have nothing but good feelings about this election:

How responsible is the US going to be for Iraq from now on? Specifically if Iraq elects an anti-US government, will there be another invasion? Another election?
 
2005-01-30 04:57:12 PM
Hey, Dubya.. Do you call soldiers on the roofs with machine guns at the polling boths a success?




/the Republican convention was mean-spirited
//still has Kerry/Edwards sign is yard


Perhaps Bush voters should have covered their faces at the polling boths as well.
 
2005-01-30 04:57:13 PM
cthu1hu

Are you really sure you want to start engaging in throwing quotes around?


"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
~Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
programs."
~Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
~Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
~Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
~Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
~Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"n the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
~Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
 
2005-01-30 04:57:28 PM
I'm just glad they timed it to take place between the NFL playoffs and the Superbowl .
 
2005-01-30 04:57:35 PM
TheGoblinKing

Tinian,

Aw dude, that was perfect. Simply perfect use of that caption and that pic...still chuckling.

/buys tinian a virtual beer


Chuckling?

/gives tinian virtual hand job.
 
2005-01-30 04:57:54 PM
2005-01-30 04:55:36 PM Churchy LaFemme
"I'm just afraid as things stay tough over there and Bush's rating continue to slide that he'll eventually do the politically expedient thing and declare 'victory' and pull out, leaving things worse than they are now..."

I think you can bank on that shiat Churchy.
 
2005-01-30 04:58:00 PM
Tell them I hate them,

He may not be your hero, but he most certainly is a star of the modern Dem party. The fact that you feel this way shows you how far the ultra-lib wing of your side of the fence has kidnapped your party.

In a way, you are right: he is no hero to your party...not the Dem party you know anyway. I'd be pissed if I were you actually, these are the same guys who booed Joe Liberman while cheering Dennis "from planet Glubshlarf" Kucinich in the DNC debates.
 
2005-01-30 04:58:02 PM
But I wonder, would Bush care about the ratings? He's not going to run for reelection. It would be a true test to see if he would listen to the wishes of the people should his rating drop really low.
 
2005-01-30 04:58:13 PM
CreepyConservative: First, I wasn't talking to you.

Understood. I was just making the point that I, like many, many others I know, don't judge "conservatives". We make assessments on what people say (write, or whatever).

it's a useless excercise if you want to see the Democrats spiral down into irrelevance in American politics. If you actually have some hope for the Democrat Party in the USA, I suggest you take a long, hard look at your party and ask yourself why asshats who wish the Iraqi elections to fail aren't castigated by Democrats with some farking sense.

I'd love to know how you've divined that I'm a Democrat. I haven't been a registered Democrat since I first registered to vote, a long time ago.

Regardless, it's still a useless exercise. The reason is that there is plenty of evidence that both sides have a lot of asshats. There are, for example, a lot of righties (I'm generalizing on purpose), who think that Bush is 100% correct in everything he does and anybody who disagrees is
at the very least un-patriotic. I can easily posit that anyone has any hope for the Republican party should castigate people who hold those views.
 
2005-01-30 04:58:31 PM
Being liberal myself, I can't come up with a valid reason for the elections to fail. I have other stuff to blame Bush for. Wanting the Iraqi people have to suffer just to say Bush was wrong is stupid. They already have enough shiat going on. Let's give them something good for a change. Liberals who want Bush to fail are just media whores whose fifteen minutes were up long ago. As for Conservatives, not all liberals are idiots. Please realize that if you haven't. The smart liberals know which battles to pick and for good reasons just like the smart Conservatives. People like Ann Coulter and Michael Moore who say stupid shiat about the other side, should be sent off to a camp in some far remote land never to be heard of again.

/end rant
 
2005-01-30 04:59:33 PM
Well. As much as I hate the fact that we're IN Iraq... I'm glad to see things were going all right. I honestly wondered whyt hey didn't postpone the elctions like the Iraqis had wanted, in order to ensure peoples' safety. That said, the fact that we're not hearing about lots of bombs and gunfights going on at the polling places means at least SOMETHING went right.

/Fark Bush.
//But please troops, come home safe.
 
2005-01-30 05:00:11 PM
hey zang please go to canada
 
2005-01-30 05:00:20 PM
I'm glad the "liberated" Iraqis could risk their lives to go out and vote in these rigged elections. A great day for forced democracy at gunpoint.

I'm not being pessimistic, but I'll bet you any amount of money that this "democracy" will never truly be peaceful for the next 5 years. Only until tens of thousands more have died and the entire reason for war is lost and debunked, will we look around and say "how did we let this happen?"
 
2005-01-30 05:00:33 PM
2005-01-30 04:58:02 PM Wopat

But I wonder, would Bush care about the ratings? He's not going to run for reelection. It would be a true test to see if he would listen to the wishes of the people should his rating drop really low.


Excellent point. We'll see what happens I guess...
 
2005-01-30 05:00:41 PM
oh boy oh boy.... this is gonna be good.

we havnt had a good bush bashing flame war in a long time, i had almost lost faith in you farkers.

//kicks back opens a guinness and watches the flames fly
 
2005-01-30 05:00:42 PM
Hey, I bet if we had have put a democracy in place in 1979 instead of letting Saddam run roughshod for 20 years, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Who'd have figured that democracy was better than a military dictator? Guess President Carter/Reagan didn't. Now Bush wants to throw our money and people away to help the Iraqis out, lying to us in the process? Fark him and all his unsympathetic, money-grubbing predecessors. He's not taking anymore of my money to throw down the toliet. First chance I get, I'm moving to Iceland. The people who believe in Bush can stay and play in his vomitspit.

By the way, Go Iraqis. You got something you should have gotten 26 years ago.
 
2005-01-30 05:00:54 PM
Wopat:

But I wonder, would Bush care about the ratings? He's not going to run for reelection. It would be a true test to see if he would listen to the wishes of the people should his rating drop really low.

Agreed, it wasn't popular opinion that sent him into Iraq, so why change now with even less at personal stake?
 
2005-01-30 05:01:22 PM
OralB,

ROFLMAO!!!

/gives tinian virtual hand job.

Well...can't say I'd virtually go that far, but I'd hire a virtual Aria Giovanni for his scrumping pleasure!
 
2005-01-30 05:02:32 PM
I hope the elections will be a turning point towards positive developments in Iraq, including a government that represents all Iraqis and more U.S. troops coming home. That does not change the fact that I disagree with just about everything the Bush administration has done over the past 4-5 years. And I find it difficult to trust a word any member of the Bush administration says.

So when I hear Bush and Rice saying the elections were "a resounding success", I basically just feel numb. I'll wait to hear reports with more reliable sources, such as Iraqi citizens and U.S. military personnel who are there, or -- God forbid -- a journalist who hasn't sold their soul. (And no, I don't consider Michael Moore a reliable source either.) And despite some people's negative expectations of liberals, I do hope the news is good, even though I wish the U.S. had never started military intervention in Iraq.

And to all those whining about that DU thread -- DU always has low-post-count trolls posting inflammatory garbage. (Of course Fark has never suffered from... oh wait...)
 
2005-01-30 05:02:49 PM


"Disabled Mohammed Karim Khader, 80, is carried on the shoulder of a man on his way to cast his vote in the northern Kurdish city of Suleimaniya Sunday Jan. 30, 2005. Iraqi Kurds flocked to polling stations in northern Iraq to take part in elections they hope will herald a new era for their long-oppressed community.(AP Photo/Patrick Baz, Pool)"

This. is. awesome.
 
2005-01-30 05:03:58 PM
ThatDevGuy:

Disputing whether the war is/was justified is an exercise in futility. The war already is taking place. There is nothing you can do about that. We can try to make the best of a bad situation (by finding something good that came out of the conflict, despite the failure of its original goals) or we can make ourselves angry and depressed fighting over the potential justification of something that happened almost two years ago.

We already learned our lesson from Viet Nam. So lets brush our mistakes under the rug and get ready for Iran! This time it's gonna be different.
 
2005-01-30 05:04:04 PM
Rock on Iraq!

And to the naysayers---you know where you can go.
 
2005-01-30 05:04:16 PM
For those who believe this is a success:
At least 36 dead in multiple mortar attacks and suicide bombings. Not to burst your bubble, or anything, but I'd hardly call that a "resounding success"...
 
2005-01-30 05:04:29 PM
"6) Therefore, there will have to be "another Pearl Harbor" to "galvanize Americans against the enemy"... as ws outlined in the New American Century documents."

This occurred on September the 11th, 2001.
And the "prime suspect" hasn't even been indicted for the crime. He's now fading to a memory.
Why?
 
2005-01-30 05:05:28 PM
budrinker said:

hey zang please go to canada


Ok. :)

I'll be gone by the end of the year.

I might come back though in a few years though... when the Canadian Army spearheads the UN Force to restore Democracy and Freedom... and to liberate the innocent inmates of the death camps that'll have been set up by then in Oakland and Encino.

Um... or maybe just to visit ;)
 
2005-01-30 05:05:42 PM
budrinker: hey zang please go to canada

Oh stop.

RealFarknMcCoy2:

Not to burst your bubble, or anything, but I'd hardly call that a "resounding success"...

To be fair, there wasn't near the amount of bloodshed that many feared.
 
2005-01-30 05:05:43 PM
I wonder how long our gullible citizenry will keep falling for this nonsense. How many times do you cheerleaders have to be lied to before you finally face reality.
 
2005-01-30 05:05:46 PM
I opened the thread expecting Liberals to be biatching about elections, no surprises here. Freedom isnt so unless its Liberal freedom.

HolderofABolderMoneyFolder: Carter was a Democrat.
 
2005-01-30 05:05:47 PM
Good for all the Iraqis who showed up to vote in the most important election in their lifetime. Ohio and Florida democrats can learn from them.
 
2005-01-30 05:06:00 PM
TheGoblinKing:

He may not be your hero, but he most certainly is a star of the modern Dem party. The fact that you feel this way shows you how far the ultra-lib wing of your side of the fence has kidnapped your party.

In all seriousness- the left has generally accepted that Moore's tactics and rants are not helping us. I'm pretty invested in the party, and I really believe the hype over him is done. He's not going anywhere, but he is not going to have the attention in the future he had in the past, by a long shot.

In a way, you are right: he is no hero to your party...not the Dem party you know anyway. I'd be pissed if I were you actually, these are the same guys who booed Joe Liberman while cheering Dennis "from planet Glubshlarf" Kucinich in the DNC debates.

Lieberman actually went to my high school, and I've had the chance to meet him a number of times. I'm further left than he is, but he is just a great guy who I couldn't have more respect for. So, I agree with you... I do think there are problems within the party. Moore is not going to be one of them for long though.
 
2005-01-30 05:06:09 PM
I'm an Iraw war supporter, and one of the more optimistic Farkers on this situation. And while I agree that the elections went overwhemingly well, there is one glaring problem I think has a good chance of creating problems.

Many Sunnis did not vote.

The Kurds and the Shiites went crazy with voting. But the Sunnis in the troubled cities largely stayed away. Turnout was very low. I can't see how Sunnis will feel like anything improved after today. If anything, seeing the rest of the country pass them by with success might make them even more bitter.

Hopefully the new government will keep Sunni thoughts in mind. But overall, I am worried about how that group will turn out.
 
2005-01-30 05:06:13 PM
zang, you crazy!!!!
 
2005-01-30 05:06:32 PM
For those who believe this is a success:
At least 36 dead in multiple mortar attacks and suicide bombings. Not to burst your bubble, or anything, but I'd hardly call that a "resounding success"...



...and freedom ain't free.

Most definitely a success.
 
2005-01-30 05:06:46 PM
"A couple of hours before the close of polls one of the polling stations near here gave me figures suggesting that the turnout at that stage was something like 85 percent."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4214707.stm
 
2005-01-30 05:06:49 PM
Le Sigh...

Do you guys know how tedious the left/right name calling looks to a poster from any other country? It really is amusing how much the democrats are called ultra-liberal or some other nonsense. There isn't a single practising far left politician in the US government right now. It's true. In almost any other free country the democrat of your choice would likely be cosidered centrist at best. Hell, most democrats would probably be members of the conservative party in Canada.

For better or for worse, the US is a country with a very solid rightist bent. I'm starting to accept this. Maybe you yankees should too. Although I guess there's not much sting in accusing the dems of being "moderates" or "center-heads".

In any event, the rest of the world is an interesting place. Getting to know what goes on there might enlighten you on why things are the way they are in your country.
 
2005-01-30 05:07:13 PM
RealFarknMcCoy2:

For those who believe this is a success:
At least 36 dead in multiple mortar attacks and suicide bombings. Not to burst your bubble, or anything, but I'd hardly call that a "resounding success"...


Sure you would -- if the 36 were murdered at an abortion clinic.
 
2005-01-30 05:07:55 PM
RealFarknMcCoy2:

Writing in big letters doesn't make your opinion anymore valid...
 
2005-01-30 05:08:39 PM
Many Sunnis did not vote.

The Kurds and the Shiites went crazy with voting. But the Sunnis in the troubled cities largely stayed away. Turnout was very low. I can't see how Sunnis will feel like anything improved after today. If anything, seeing the rest of the country pass them by with success might make them even more bitter.



If Sunnis declined to participate, then the Sunnis only have one party to blame if their interests aren't very well represented.
 
2005-01-30 05:08:40 PM
RealFarknMcCoy2: I don't want or have to prove anything. History will show the truth.

We both know that history means nothing to hard line party followers. Example Vietnam. How many years has that war been over and how often has the merits of that war been debated even to this day.

No, history and facts have no place in politics today.

HowlingFrog:

While your words are true, that train is highballing down the tracks, and it's splitting this country down the middle. Your words aren't gonna stop it.

Think about how many people in this country dont vote. Do you think these people dont care about this country or do you think these people dont care for the two party system that takes us no where.

So while Libs and Repubs cry about a split nation the people in the middle are being ignored.

Its like a bad marriage between red and blue. The people in the middle are the lock key children who resent you both.
 
2005-01-30 05:08:43 PM
If this isn't justification for liberating Iran next, I don't know what is
 
2005-01-30 05:08:49 PM
General Zang: "...when the Canadian Army spearheads the UN Force to restore Democracy and Freedom." ROTFLMAO, you idiot, the Canadian 'Army' isnt really anything more than symbolic. We don't need more ignorant Liberals like you here.
 
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