In addition, another thing that frustrates liberals about people like you B82 is that your type undoubtedly took the low road and biatched and complained about Clinton for 8 straight years, laughed along with Rush Limbaugh's low-brow political commentary and generally whined along with him about the 'evil liberals.' Judging by your past reactionary statements I'm going to guess that you were 'part of the problem', not part of the solution.

What is just hilarious is that now that your ideological views are fully represented in government, all of a sudden you are all about taking the 'high road' and you deride liberals for taking the kinds of negative stances you undoubtedly took under Clinton.

You were all in support of Clinton when he went to Somalia to help those poor people, right? I'll never forget SENATE MAJORITY LEADER Trent Lott stating that one doesn't have to support the President to support the troops... Did you complain about Lott's lack of unity with the President in a time of conflict, B82? For some reason I'm guessing you sided with Lott on that one...

/It's not the bringing of freedom to Iraq that I hate. It's Bush's jingoistic political opportunism and the people like you who EAT IT UP.

Wopat,

Your painting of Michael Moore as a liberal hero is just wrong

Respectfully, he sat next to Jimmy Carter, a US President, in the seat of honor at the DNC.

He isn't the smart liberals hero as you pointed out, but he certainly is a liberal hero considering the ink that guy gets.

I mean, for once in a god damn blue moon would all the American tards who are trying to turn this into a local issue just shut the fark up. Who the fark cares about Michael Moore or Ann Coulter when a farking country the other side of the world has just held its first free elections in 60 years.

I mean really, just shut up and realise that this is a good thing, and not another thing to beat the other guy over the head with. People died because of this, the least you can do is stop acting like American retards.

lexslamman

We hear you loud and clear:

This is how you say "Fark You" to a terrorist

DinoVomit

How is that comedy? Do you really believe he is largely considered a liberal hero? And if so, where did you get your viewpoint from, because it sure as hell isn't your own.

Don't forget, the BIG election is in December.

Certainly Michael Moore isn't a big enough liberal hero to sit next to the second most recent Democrat elected as President of the United States at the Democratic National Convention.

Oh wait. He did.

GodsRightHandGimp I don't want or have to prove anything. History will show the truth.

Yes it is true: Saddam turned out to have no WMDs, but HOW WERE WE TO KNOW THAT AT THE TIME? By taking his word? Bullsh-t!

Did you not see that presentation to the UN that Colin Powell made? Did you not see Cheney say on Meet The Press he knows where the WMDs are?

What flavor Kool-Aid did you drink?

from the NY Times:

In Karada...a well-dressed Iraqi man named Rashid Majid, 80, pushed his way past the guards and stepped through the schoolhouse doors.

"Get out of my way," Mr. Majid said, hurrying by. "I want to vote."

"We have freedom now, we have human rights, we have democracy," said Mr. Majid said. "We will invite the insurgents to take part in our system. If they do, we will welcome them. If they don't, we will kill them."


That old dude rocks!

Holy shiat, get the patent office on the phone. I smell a sweet merchandising deal brewing with this "blue finger" garbage.

/blue finger magnets on the back of my SUV

I am so proud of this humanitarian success. It's a joy to be a citizen of the greatest nation on the planet. I love knowing that when I buy something, some of the money goes to bullets for our troops. We Americans can look around the world, decide everyone is beneath us, and choose who needs our help next. Then our army shows up, kills many thousands of people, and tries to make the survivors act just like us. We kick ass. Our intentions are so pure and honest that we are all going to heaven!

remember, this is the liberal media telling you that iraqi voting was a resounding success.

therefore, it must actually be an understatement. this must have been the best day in human culture ever, because those hateful, angry lib news editors only live to destroy the republican directive.

TheGoblinKing

Personally, I believe his media exposure has created a false perception of his impact on anything.

F9/11 didn't seem to have much of an effect on elections (hard to prove), which says to me that either his influence is overrated or his fans just have a really short term memory.

Respectfully, he sat next to Jimmy Carter, a US President, in the seat of honor at the DNC.

exactly.

Most excellent!!! Hurrah for Iraq, hopefully our troops will be able to begin returning home soon, and hopefully Iraq will become a stable democracy. We may disagree on the reasons for the war, but we should all support self-determination anywhere. Iraq has been transformed from a brutal dictatorship into a fledgling democracy, hope it works out!

I'm a bit late to put it down, but here:

To anyone ready to link to Democrats talking about an Iraq WMD program:
They were using it to justify Operation Desert Fox in 1998. After Fox, they agreed the programs were no longer a threat. So don't take their words out of context.

And yes Kerry got the same intelligence Bush did. Anyone that got that intelligence would support the war because the intelligence presented was without its countless qualifiers, not the least of which were questionable sources like our boy Ahmed "Make Me President and I'll Tell you Iraq Killed Santa Claus" Chalabi. (Yeah. The same Chalabi who ended up spying on us for Iran.)

We ignored the fact that our "intelligence" sources stank to high heaven. We ignored the inspectors who found nothing. Cheney visited the CIA headquarters to oversee intelligence operations regarding Iraq and we ignored that. We ignored the fact that several pieces of evidence were already discredited. (Yellowcake.)

You present a case with intelligence that bad and it'll look so definite that even Gandhi would invade Iraq.

DinoVomit:

"Your painting of Michael Moore as a liberal hero is just wrong. Well, he might be to a few. "

That is comedy.

It's not comedy. The only people who think that MM is a liberal hero are conservatives.

LawrencePerson:

Certainly Michael Moore isn't a big enough liberal hero to sit next to the second most recent Democrat elected as President of the United States at the Democratic National Convention.

I think wopat's assessment that you might be a moron is pretty accurate. This has got _nothing_ to do with what
the straw man "liberals" think about MM.

You seem quite incapable of understanding the idea that the term "liberal" is a catch all that says little about the individuals who may be more liberal.

You are a poor representative for the conservative side of the fence.

Nubianz - I checked ebay, nothing there yet. I say buy this ink stuff at the art store, then list it on ebay as "Iraqi freedom ink".

Wopat,

It is comedy because you said the view that he is a liberal hero is WRONG. And then right afterwards you contradicted yourself.

Where did I get my viewpoint from? my chair... office max?

SSNPguerrilla:

you know, this kinda reminds me of the election the Israeli's had in Lebanon when they invaded. It was "a resounding success" considering we were under military occupation. Thank god my party assasinated the president that the Israeli's...err Lebanese elected.

you sir, are a dickwad of the first degree!

The intelligence didn't stink, inkdrinker, it was "sexed up" to say what the Bush administration wanted it to say. Read the book "Axis of Deceit" by Andrew Wilkie - it explains a lot.

Sweet. This means the whole thing was a success and our troops can go home now, right?

Oh, I see. Hmmm...

Roughly 50% of eligible voters within Iraq registered to vote. Of that 50%, maybe 7 out of 10 actually showed up to vote. That's assuming that the Iraqi governments initial numbers are correct. The UN and the BBC put the numbers much lower.

The election consisted soley of "at large" council seats, which means that the pro-American Shi'ites, with 60% of the population, will likely control 100% of the government.

Now you have to assume that the Kurds and the Sunnis will simply bow to the will of the Shi'ites. For them, "democracy" will not be too much different than a dictatorship, since they will have no representation within the elected government.

This is not a "success," this is a prelude to a civil war.

But let's be fair to the folks at Democratic underground. Here's someone who actually had the guts to stand up to the anti-Democracy faction of the democratic party:

"If you want to cheer on a bunch zealots who stone gays and beat women or power-mad fascists, then go over to Pat Robertson's or the neo-Nazi's website. It's that kind of anti-democratic Democratic thinking that is turning the DNC into the minority party everywhere. If what happened today in Iraq is screwing up the world, then we've got to figure out how to screw it up faster."

So it does seem like there are a few voices of sanity left on the left.

Oh, wait. That post was deleted in less than 40 minutes. Never mind.

DinoVomit

When I said liberal hero, I was using it in the same way you/Lawrence/whoever had been; that is, where "liberal" is an all-encompassing word.

GodsRightHandGimp

Both Liberals and Republicans make me sick at this point.

You dont give a damn about the Iraqi people you just want to prove the other side wrong.

While your words are true, that train is highballing down the tracks, and it's splitting this country down the middle. Your words aren't gonna stop it.

Farkdog,

I think you missed what I was laughing at.

What Wopat said was like saying "I hate everything green and everything green should die, execept for some of the green things."

LawrencePerson

I'm not even sure what your point is anymore.

LawrencePerson:

So it does seem like there are a few voices of sanity left on the left.

Oh, wait. That post was deleted in less than 40 minutes. Never mind.

Again, asshat, DU isn't a place to get the views of the majority of "liberals".

But please do continue. It's comedy gold.

LawrencePerson, in the last 20 minutes I have seen you use more logical fallacies than I have used in 20 years.

example:

Certainly Michael Moore isn't a big enough liberal hero to sit next to the second most recent Democrat elected as President of the United States at the Democratic National Convention.

example:

Again, many liberals want to see Democracy in Iraq fail rather than see Bush suceed.

Just because we disdain Bush enough to want to see everything he does end up in disaster does not mean that we aren't pro-democracy and that we want to see the Mid-East stabilize into a viable trade center ruled by democratic governments with free-market economies.


You just use too many straw-men and red-herrings to argue with me. I can't keep up with the long stream of bull-shiat dangling from your lips like drool.

What argument are you trying to make? That sitting next to Carter makes Moore a liberal hero? I could argue that all the photos of Bush shaking the hands of the Saudi elite makes him an oppressive semi-theocratic dictatorial leader masquerading as the legitimate leader of an advanced nation.

aww jeeeezzz not this crap again
/wish i could go just one day.............

DinoVomit: I think you missed what I was laughing at.

Yeah, I did. Sorry about that. Caught up in the moment and all.

2005-01-30 02:45:56 PM haws83 [TotalFark]
"There were a number of reasons for going to war, but WMDs made for the best sound bite, and therefore the easiest to understand. Both sides of the aisle thought there were WMDs prior to the war, Kerry and Bush both, both received poor intelligence. To blame that part on Bush alone is stupid, because in spite of revisionist claims BOTH sides voted for war in Congress which Bush has no part in."


This both sides shiat is the problem, there is no opposition (Dems and Repubs = one side). In our last election republicrats received 99% of the vote (sound familiar). Who is going to liberate us? China?

From the blog, Iraq the Model:

The media is reporting only explosions and suicide attacks that killed and injured many Iraqis s far but this hasn't stopped the Iraqis from marching towards their voting stations with more determination. Iraqis have truly raced the sun.

I walked forward to my station, cast my vote and then headed to the box, where I wanted to stand as long as I could, then I moved to mark my finger with ink, I dipped it deep as if I was poking the eyes of all the world's tyrants.
I put the paper in the box and with it, there were tears that I couldn't hold; I was trembling with joy and I felt like I wanted to hug the box but the supervisor smiled at me and said "brother, would you please move ahead, the people are waiting for their turn".

Yes brothers, proceed and fill the box!
These are stories that will be written on the brightest pages of history...Aasha Al-Iraq.Aasha Al-Iraq.Aasha Al-Iraq.

//now with citation goodness, mods please delete previous post

DinoVomit

My supposed "contradiction" was more of a way of identifying that "liberal" before it was supposed to mean "all/most liberals". If I made this hard to understand, I am sorry.

FNR_Thomas "This is not a "success," this is a prelude to a civil war."

That's the way I see it, too. How long are we going to be fighting it, though?

farkdog
Me:Have you ever stopped to consider why that is?
No, because it's useless exercise.

First, I wasn't talking to you.

Second... it's a useless excercise if you want to see the Democrats spiral down into irrelevance in American politics. If you actually have some hope for the Democrat Party in the USA, I suggest you take a long, hard look at your party and ask yourself why asshats who wish the Iraqi elections to fail aren't castigated by Democrats with some farking sense.

Certainly the folks over at MoveOn.org couldn't possibly think Michael Moore is a liberal hero. It's not like they conducted a massive astroturfing campaign for Fahrenheit 9/11.

Oh, wait. They did.

LawrencePerson

Oh, wait. That post was deleted in less than 40 minutes. Never mind.

No, it was the original post that was the cause of the deletion. Do you read this stuff first or what?

I think godsrighthandgimp is a lot more correct than anyone wants to admit.

Wopat,

Heh, I know that a lot of liberals hate MM, your comment just made me chuckle.

It's also funny how the so-called success of the iraqi elections has digressed into a moore bashing jerkfest.

Now that the people of Iraq are free how about we free the people of China?

LawrencePerson

If the only places you can cite are DU and MoveOn, you have no argument.

CreepyConservative: elections to fail aren't castigated by Democrats with some farking sense.

They are, by many. I'm extrememly liberal and I could not have been happier watching the news this morning. I sat with 3 extrememly liberal friends and we talked about how nice it was to see some good come out of a war we don't support.

You paint all Democrats with the same brush because it suits you and your own ignorant stereotypes. Fact is- you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm just glad that I'm not surrounded by sick fukks who like war. Oh, wait....