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(BayouBuzz)   Michael Moore gets screwed out of an Oscar. It's easy to rig the People's Choice Awards when MoveOn organizes a campaign   (bayoubuzz.com) divider line 862
    More: Dumbass  
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34722 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2005 at 3:07 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-25 05:13:45 PM  
Weaver95, you could be more subtle than I give you credit for, but it's likely I'm missing the subtlety completely. I'm nowhere near as 'up' on this kind of political stuff as I should be for being a Farker.

Either way, kudos. :)

Every so often, you piss me off. But then you make me laugh. And I have to give credit where it's due. At least you challenge people to think, most of the time.

Anyway, off I go to work and beyond. Be good, everyone, and thanks for the entertainment/kill-time!
 
2005-01-25 05:14:08 PM  
Weaver95

I think the default liberal position is to just blame a conservative white guy whenever things don't work out.

I think the default conservative position is to just blame Clinton when things don't work out.

Yay for partisanship!
 
2005-01-25 05:14:23 PM  
a more accurate description of Fahrenheit 911 would be propaganda, instead of documentary

well put mr. crouere. he would win that category, at least.
 
2005-01-25 05:14:54 PM  
Weaver95

I think Liberals usually go to the source of the "power" to blame. In our society, it is usually a white guy.
 
2005-01-25 05:15:10 PM  
MTB_guy
Since you folks seem to hate Michael Moore, he's welcome up here in Canada.


Hey, you can have him, but are you sure you want him?

[image from filibustercartoons.com too old to be available]

Hat tip: Filibuster Cartoons


ZipBeep
The question is: If Bush didn't get it right on WMD and everybody else was satisfied that Saddam was (minimally) following the sanctions, doesn't that make Bush's argument weak?


Following the sanctions? One of the main conditions of the sanctions was that Saddam had to not only dispose of all the required WMD components, but also to allow the UN to verify their destruction. If he'd done that, the UN would have easily been able to document it, but he didn't. Why do you think there was so much contention about it in the first place? Even some of the left-leaners I know concur that while Saddam didn't have fully-completed WMD, he most likely maintained the base components and junked and/or exported them just before the inspections restarted. It might explain where terrorists travelling through Syria got the ingredients for that failed chemical attack in Jordan, too. (I know it's Free Republic, but the original AP article's gone.)

The_Mad_Dutchman: "He makes shiat up and passes it off as fact!"
Maybe you should check out his web site, where he documents everything, instead of just blowing hot air about how fair you are.


Problem: the main contention with Moore's movies is not that he lies, but that he deliberately hides half the truth, and Moore's references don't contest that. For instance, in the movie, he strongly insinuates that Bush allowed the Bin Laden family to illicitly flee the country after 9/11, but he totally neglects to mention that the flights were openly authorized by Bush critic Richard Clarke (who also appeared in the movie). Moore responds to this objection by providing citations of "the White House" approving the Saudis' departure, reaffirming the facts he put in the movie, but continuing to ignore the facts he left OUT. Moore employs the classic strawman, responding as though the critics were questioning the facts included rather than the facts omitted.

Oh, and Moore does outright lie quite a bit, too, or do you think this was an actual newspaper headline?

[image from moorewatch.com too old to be available]

The whole story's at Moorewatch.com


Churchy LaFemme
As stated by someone in yesterday's Rightie Fapping Thread, biatching about Moore is all you guys got so you have to make the best of it.


If we were in a thread about garden gnomes or something similarly unrelated to Moore, you'd have a point, but this thread is ABOUT Michael Moore, so it'd be stupid NOT to talk about him or his work. If I disagree with him, and I'm in a thread to talk about him, I'm going to voice my dissent!

Besides, it's kinda silly to say that the only target we have is Moore after all the smackdowns laid upon Kerry and Edwards. Moore's just appeared in the news again, that's all, and the reason he's appeared in the news is that so many nuts and dummies threw their political weight behind his movie, despite the fact it was crap, just to score some points against Bush. If you want to blame anybody for the political right trashing Moore, blame yourselves for raising him up in the first place.

Seriously, how do expect people not to declare open season when you raise up a man who has the gall to say the following about the Iraqis who murdered US contractors, even after smearing the contractors as heartless mercenaries?

[image from coxandforkum.com too old to be available]

Hat tip: Cox and Forkum

And by the way, the leader of lots of these "Minutement" has just literally declared war against democracy itself, so I think the American Revolution analogy has crashed and burned.

Note to 21-7-b: yes, I now he's not ACTUALLY a terrorist; just a sympathizer. :P

PS: I know lots of people despise C&F, so I figured it'd be good flamewar fuel. ^_^
 
2005-01-25 05:16:07 PM  
Yes, it would, if it was put in a lockbox

And you know as well as I do that politicans from both sides wouldn't leave any pile of money alone no matter what they said to the contrary. A Social Security 'lockbox' is a pipe dream. It also ignores the underlying causes of it's impending collapse.
 
2005-01-25 05:16:18 PM  
Webgrunt

OK, so I guess you didn't find the Farwell joke funny. Sounds like you just fall in line with the general attitude of this country that there is always someone else to blame other than the actual perp.
 
2005-01-25 05:17:05 PM  
So......

Who likes movies?
 
2005-01-25 05:17:13 PM  

DigitalReligion --
And even IBC uses news reports, rather than primary sources.


It's perfectly understandable that nobody wants to send personnel (especially obvious foreigners) into a dangerous environment to visit hospitals, morgues, et al. It's complicated by the fact that combatants tend not to like journalists running around actual battlefields unless they're show only what the combatants want them to show, and by the time journalists get there an area might have been sanitized by surviving participants. Respondents may also have reason to lie -- in either direction. It does mean however that it's extremely difficult to through out a remotely accurate number estimate for the total; a minimum would be easier to establish since it doesn't require comprehensiveness or precisely representative sampling. As far as I know, there hasn't been an epidemic of car bombings targeting people already dead prior to the war for the purpose of inflating the count.

 
2005-01-25 05:17:54 PM  
YodaTuna
Actually, your post embodied half of my point.

I would find it incredibly offensive if you were to tell me that you thought my opinions of Michael Moore had been influenced by Republicans...and that's what it sounds like you are saying.
 
2005-01-25 05:18:13 PM  
Ditto:

Fine, ZipBeep, I will just ignore your posts. Not like you, or the guy you are arguing with, aren't a dime a dozen anyway.

You should start posting in ALL CAPS TOO. And use lots of !!!1!! in your posts. And upgrade your AOL account.



You should get a clue, and look at why part of my posts were in bold, moron.
 
2005-01-25 05:21:14 PM  
Michael Moore can kiss my a$$.
 
2005-01-25 05:21:19 PM  
You should get a clue, and look at why part of my posts were in bold, moron.


'cause you forgot to close your HTML tag?
 
2005-01-25 05:21:21 PM  
The article calls the film propaganda. Just like all good republicans he can name call, but cant offer fact to back up his statement.

Mr.Moore made a great case against Bush, but underestimated the retard factor.

Bush's Holy Sheep-people would not question thier divine leader, or else Jesus might burn them in hell for eternity. What a guy.
 
2005-01-25 05:22:10 PM  
VideoVader

Nice job posting the clever cartoons. Let me ask you, what, EXACTLY, is wrong with declaring war on democracy? We are in Iraq, killing people, in the name of democracy. What did you think they would declare war on? We soured the beauty of democracy by trying to create one at gunpoint. "You will like democracy, or you will die." Who would you view as the enemy(assuming your an Iraqi citizen)?

Unfortunately we will learn, that democracy can not be forced. Also, I think you need to realize that democracy is not some kind of government handed down from god to the people of America. It is a philosophy created by humans, thusly there is flaws.
 
2005-01-25 05:24:22 PM  
The_Mad_Dutchman: If you actualy hadbotheredto visit Moore's site,you'd find cited sources, that's what ZipBeep was saying...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16
 
2005-01-25 05:24:24 PM  
I guess the real question is.... why isn't Kevin Bacon a nominee??? He was great in Mystic River.
 
2005-01-25 05:24:28 PM  
The article calls the film propaganda.

It *is* propaganda, as is most of his work. Moore is a brilliant propagandist, he knows his target audience very well and he's a genius level marketing guru. If there was a 'Leni Riefenstahl' Oscar catagory, he'd win it hands down. Just don't confuse what he does with anything objective.
 
2005-01-25 05:24:50 PM  
Ditto

Of course not, I do not know what kind of person you are. I know nothing about you except your Fark name. I make no presumptions as to your motives or opinions. However I do not believe I am off the mark when saying the the organized right has deliberately gone out of it's way to demonize Micheal Moore even to the people who share the same ideas as him.
 
2005-01-25 05:25:11 PM  
god darn, i'm pround to be a farker when i see that people don't buy into the flamewar.

"fighting for peace is like f***ing for chastity"
 
2005-01-25 05:25:16 PM  
The right needs Michael Moore. The conservative leaders, pundits, and spokespeople spend so much time bashing the likes of MIchael Moore and his ilk, their conservative herd of lemmings are paying no attention to the cliff that the Bush Administration is leading them over. It is inconceivable that a true conservative can call President Bush one of his own.
 
2005-01-25 05:25:51 PM  
martlet1

Mystic River was last year. Tim Robbins won best supporting.

Also it was a terrible movie.
 
2005-01-25 05:25:51 PM  
Oops, spacebar malfunction...
 
2005-01-25 05:27:35 PM  
DrBreRuthlessVillain

Thank you.
 
2005-01-25 05:27:55 PM  
I'd have to respectfuly disagree that Moore would win the propaganda Oscar. My vote would be woever directed those manufactured news reports. That's some good propaganda.
 
2005-01-25 05:28:16 PM  
One of the great thing sabout the USA is that this kindof debate, whether ill-informed or not, can happen.
 
2005-01-25 05:28:31 PM  
VideoVader:

Following the sanctions? One of the main conditions of the sanctions was that Saddam had to not only dispose of all the required WMD components, but also to allow the UN to verify their destruction. If he'd done that, the UN would have easily been able to document it, but he didn't. Why do you think there was so much contention about it in the first place? Even some of the left-leaners I know concur that while Saddam didn't have fully-completed WMD, he most likely maintained the base components and junked and/or exported them just before the inspections restarted. It might explain where terrorists travelling through Syria got the ingredients for that failed chemical attack in Jordan, too. (I know it's Free Republic, but the original AP article's gone.)


Hey, he didn't have WMD, so he was following the sanctions. The inspectors CHOSE to leave in 1998 and you can't blame a guy for getting his back and saying no to a saber-rattling, war monger like Bush. If Bush would have wanted it, he could have gotten the inspectors back in. But he wanted WAR. And he was absolutely giddy when he got his war.

/You lose a LOT of credibility by posting a CoxandForkum cartoon, BTW. Next, you will be quoting NewsMax or Rushlimbaugh.com
 
2005-01-25 05:29:23 PM  
My vote would be woever directed those manufactured news reports.

You mean Rathergate?
 
2005-01-25 05:29:56 PM  
"Mr.Moore made a great case against Bush"

No, no he didn't. The fact that you think Moore did based solely on his film makes you as much as a "sheep" as those you accuse of blindly following Bush.
 
2005-01-25 05:30:19 PM  
YodaTuna:

Mystic River was last year. Tim Robbins won best supporting.

Also it was a terrible movie.



Absolutely WRONG! Mystic River is one the great movies of all time. Outstanding acting. Sean Penn won Best Actor, too, right? Everybody was great in that movie.
 
2005-01-25 05:31:25 PM  
ZipBeep --
Iraq violated the resolutions as soon as it unilaterally destroyed any of its WMD in secret -- and since they apparently didn't bother to retain any evidence that would verifiably show how much was destroyed (or they lost it, or refused to present it *and* hid it to the point that ISG couldn't find it post-war), it was an irreversible violation.
 
2005-01-25 05:31:34 PM  
Weaver95: No, that was neither manufacured, nor propaganda. It was poor fact checking.
 
2005-01-25 05:32:46 PM  
UberDave

[image from lostfocus.de too old to be available]

http://www.lostfocus.de/archives/2004/01/29/vicki-zhao-wei/
 
2005-01-25 05:32:50 PM  
The fact that you think Moore did based solely on his film makes you as much as a "sheep" as those you accuse of blindly following Bush.


I'd say it was solid evidence that Moore knows his target audience cold. He said what they wanted to hear and as a result they've made him very rich.

I can't fault the man's ability to manipulate an audience, merely despise him for his results.
 
2005-01-25 05:33:18 PM  
Weaver95: 'cause you forgot to close your HTML tag?


What? You got tired of me handing you your ass on substantive posts, so now you want to jump in here?
 
2005-01-25 05:33:25 PM  
YodaTuna:

I agree.
 
2005-01-25 05:36:55 PM  
Weaver95:

I can't fault the man's ability to manipulate an audience, merely despise him for his results.

Because the results don't fit in to your Bush-loving, NeoCon world? Does the manipulation of you NeoCon lemmings by the Bush/Cheney/Rove team bother you? Moore isn't trying to start wars, anyway. He is just trying to point out some interesting tidbits about why Bush may have gone to war, since Bush himself doesn't seem to be able to come up with any good reasons? What's the latest? Saddam was mean to his pet goat?

/Did you even see the movie?
 
2005-01-25 05:37:23 PM  
You got tired of me handing you your ass on substantive posts

Still dropping acid while posting on Fark, eh? I'm telling you, you shouldn't take anything hallucinagenic when trying to think logically about current events. It never turns out as well as you think it does.

Ah well. If thinking you're 'winning' in a fark flamewar thread is what gets you thru the day then I guess I can let you keep the illusion for a while longer.
 
2005-01-25 05:37:32 PM  
In response to the challenge to point out an inconsistancy with Moore's film, I have one!!!

Iraqi children don't fly kites for fun. They only fly them to provide a target to practice downing airliners and helicopters.
 
2005-01-25 05:40:44 PM  
Because the results don't fit in to your Bush-loving, NeoCon world?

Hmm...two uses of the word 'neocon' in that post. Must have hit a bit to close to the truth there.

Relax, I never said you had to agree with my view of Moore. You can believe whatever you want about the man. I'm just saying he's a brilliant propagandist - probably the best of his generation. He's nowhere near objective or informatative tho.

Make of those facts what you will.
 
2005-01-25 05:41:35 PM  
Korovyov:

Iraq violated the resolutions as soon as it unilaterally destroyed any of its WMD in secret -- and since they apparently didn't bother to retain any evidence that would verifiably show how much was destroyed (or they lost it, or refused to present it *and* hid it to the point that ISG couldn't find it post-war), it was an irreversible violation.

OR, there was a war in their country during which a lot of the WMD and/or documentation was destroyed. That's what the UN inspectors assumed. And, after the war, Saddam didn't have control over large portions of the country. Correct?

But the proof is in the pudding. We haven't found any WMD, the UN and the Iraq Commission says there weren't any WMD, and Bush has just completely given trying to find any.
 
2005-01-25 05:41:48 PM  
[image from mediabasement.com too old to be available]
 
2005-01-25 05:42:27 PM  
What an extremely boring thread.
 
2005-01-25 05:42:57 PM  
Weaver95: Make of those facts what you will.


If they were facts, maybe. But they're only your NeoCon, Bush loving opinion.
 
2005-01-25 05:43:23 PM  
Well, the entire Bush Adminstration should win the award for best propaganda...hands down....no competition for that one.

Weaver95. Does President Bush's propaganda machine to gain support for his war in Iraq pale in comparison to "Rathergate" or Michael Moore's propa-mentary?
 
2005-01-25 05:43:46 PM  
dudemanbro: What an extremely boring thread.


Thanks for contributing, though!
 
2005-01-25 05:44:26 PM  
[image from img.photobucket.com too old to be available]
 
2005-01-25 05:44:53 PM  
...and he calls me a moron.
 
2005-01-25 05:44:54 PM  
But what all of you keep missing is that Bush and Moore are actually cousins. Bush's grandfather got a house maid pregnant while his chauffer was driving across Texas. That housemaid was Moore's grandmother. It is all documented. Also Bush privately claims that he was tipped off about the WMDs by a dream involving space aliens. The "media" won't report this though. And Moore has trouble concentrating because he is addicted to morphine, which he takes by mixing it with Dr. Pepper. The large amount of Dr. Pepper is why he has gained so much weight in the last few years. You can read about this in the Hollywood trade press. This is also why no insurance company will insure Moore when he is working on his movies. Bush has denied the link to Moore through his grandfather but Laura alluded to it during an "off the record" chat with a well known magazine writer. Don't take my word for any of this, there are dozens of websites I could link you to.
 
2005-01-25 05:45:12 PM  
bbcrackmonkey

Tirk82 said:

"Moore's" "movie" "lie" "s" "."

See how that works, Tirk82? If I had a large enough sample of your comments to go from, I could quote entire sentences out of context and string them together as if they were one post meant to convey a consistent message from you. If I did, I bet you would accuse me of lying, wouldn't you?



Funny, this is from the guy making up things about the ACLU on the smokers thread.
 
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