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(Reuters)   Today's fearmongering organization, brought to you by WHO: Evolution of bird flu virus could start human flu pandemic. America tells world not to worry, evolution is just a theory   (reuters.com) divider line 218
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5297 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jan 2005 at 10:56 AM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-20 12:48:07 PM
"Citation? Also in which class were those who believed in both (evolutionary creationism has a lot of adherants in the religious community).

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

The top three religions all have their own creation stories that do not involve evolution, as do most of the other religions listed.

No, I don't know what percentage of those people accept evolution AND creationism, but I didn't say they DIDNT believe in any form of evolution, just that they did believe in a form of creationism.

"Also more than 77% of the world lives in third world nations, and that is rising. In much of the third world science takes a strong backseat to mythology."

Yep. Doesn't change the facts, though. Let's not forget that many of these people immigrate to first world countries, but don't always shed their "mythology" as you tactfully put it.
 
2005-01-20 12:48:41 PM
re: 'the intelligent design thing'

...is not science.

ID speaks to 'creation' not evolution.
It just says "we don't know so god musta dunnit"
Same as all the other religious based explanations for...everything.
The final word on religion is that it has failed to explain or predict anything correctly in 2K years.
Out! demons of stupidity
 
2005-01-20 12:50:02 PM
You guys know nothing about science! Obser-ruv:

BILL OREILLY: Well, I dont agree with that. Science is not always incomplete and Ill give you an example. There are twenty-four hours in a day. Alright. Thats science. And there are four seasons. Thats science. So you can state things with certainty in biology or any other science you want.

Also, the south is not the only place with antievolution yokels.
 
2005-01-20 12:50:08 PM
And creationism and evolution aren't mutually exclusive in all formulations. I would posit that the majority of the world believes in both.
 
2005-01-20 12:51:40 PM
citation? ;)
 
2005-01-20 12:53:04 PM
This warning of global virological doom has been braught to you by:














 
2005-01-20 12:55:50 PM

BILL OREILLY: Well, I dont agree with that. Science is not always incomplete and Ill give you an example. There are twenty-four hours in a day.


Amazing how that works out when you define an hour as 1/24 of a day. Next science may prove that two halves make a whole! Five fifths still needs peer review.


Alright. Thats science.


Not really; just means we chose to break a day into 24 equal intervals, really. Nobody "discovered" the hour.


And there are four seasons. Thats science.


If you live in the US and Europe where the year is divided into four, yes. If you live in parts of the world where the year is divided into two seasons, not really true.

Man, is Bill O'Reilly really that intellectually vacant? I suppose there's good reason I don't listen to him. Amazing newsflash for Mr. O'Reilly: When you define something, it usually is exactly what you defined. I can define one SumDumGai as the average amount of times Mr. O'Reilly farts in one day, and *gasp* look, science just proved that on average, Mr. O'Reilly farts an average of one SumDumGai per day. Another stunning victory for science!
 
2005-01-20 01:00:07 PM
HexRei

Don't have a good citation, but I know, for example, the Catholic Church takes the position that "evolution is very possible, but both the universe and human soul are created by God". They don't endorse it but they freely admit it's not a contradiction of any of their beliefs. Similarly the Pope has talked before about the Big Bang, he just considers whatever precipitated it to be an act of God.
 
2005-01-20 01:00:36 PM
My flu usually just evolves into phlegm.
 
2005-01-20 01:01:00 PM
so your argument is that because units of measurement are arbitrary, the measurements are valueless?
 
2005-01-20 01:01:45 PM
oops. that last came a little late, was in reply to sum dum gai.
 
2005-01-20 01:03:15 PM
My argument is when you define something to be true, logically it always is. It's not science, just nomenclature.
 
2005-01-20 01:04:42 PM
Did someone forget to tell the headline writer that about 3/4 of the world believes in creationism, not evolution?

That's down 25% from 4/4 only a coupla hundred years ago.
But then again, as long as the number is over 1/2, it must be true.
 
2005-01-20 01:05:09 PM
Donald_McRonald

You guys know nothing about science! Obser-ruv:

BILL OREILLY: Well, I dont agree with that. Science is not always incomplete and Ill give you an example. There are twenty-four hours in a day. Alright. Thats science. And there are four seasons. Thats science. So you can state things with certainty in biology or any other science you want.

Also, the south is not the only place with antievolution yokels.


I never realized that television had the power to make people stupid.
 
2005-01-20 01:05:32 PM
HexRei
so your argument is that because units of measurement are arbitrary, the measurements are valueless?

Pay attention.

The argument is that just because a day has 24 hours does not mean that science is complete, as O'Reilly claims.

A day has 24 hours because an day is defined as 24 one-hour segments. That's not science, just like saying two halves make a whole isn't 'science'.
 
2005-01-20 01:05:58 PM
No, no, no. God created the virus as a tool to kill the non-believers.

/duh
 
2005-01-20 01:13:04 PM
HAHAHAHAHA awesome headline! dumb creatonists (or intelligent-design-folks)!
 
2005-01-20 01:22:40 PM
dogfather_jr wrote:

"Pay attention.

The argument is that just because a day has 24 hours does not mean that science is complete, as O'Reilly claims.

A day has 24 hours because an day is defined as 24 one-hour segments. That's not science, just like saying two halves make a whole isn't 'science'."

Except that an hour has a measurement independent of the length of a day: 60 minutes. Minutes are furthermore subdivided into 60 seconds. Seconds have a definition that is not related in any way to a 24 hour day:
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/cesium/fountain.htm

So the argument that an hour is merely an arbitrary subdivision of a day is inaccurate (although at one time it was). It is an independent measurement based upon an observable physical phenomenon.


I don't know about science being "complete", but in regard to the length of a day, we have it measured as completely as possible.
 
U
2005-01-20 01:28:16 PM
god, i hate jesus.
 
2005-01-20 01:33:23 PM
HexRei
Except that an hour has a measurement independent of the length of a day: 60 minutes. Minutes are furthermore subdivided into 60 seconds. Seconds have a definition that is not related in any way to a 24 hour day:

Actually, a second is defined as:

9,192,631,770 oscillations of a cesium-133 atom in an atomic clock.
(How Stuff Works.com)

So, it appears that an atomic clock defines a second in order to fit the current definition of our minutes, hours and days.

I don't know about science being "complete", but in regard to the length of a day, we have it measured as completely as possible.

Turns out we haven't 'measured' a day. We've taken an observable event (the complete rotation of the earth on its axis) and broken it into smaller subsections. While those divisions were likely based on something,they were, from a scientific viewpoint, arbitrary.
 
2005-01-20 01:36:13 PM
Seconds have a definition that is not related in any way to a 24 hour day

The geographic distance, 'a second' is supposed to be directly proportional to the ammount of rotation that the earth has durring one second of time. (86,400th of a day)

However, when this was established as a mesurement of distance, it was not taken into account that the earth's rotation changed speeds:

"the length of a day increases at an average of 15 5s per year"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake
 
2005-01-20 01:39:39 PM
HexRai

Except that an hour has a measurement independent of the length of a day: 60 minutes. Minutes are furthermore subdivided into 60 seconds. Seconds have a definition that is not related in any way to a 24 hour day:
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/cesium/fountain.htm


I believe that it was only quite a bit after concepts such as "minutes" and "seconds" were in common usage, and everyone had a good idea of the lengths of time connoted by those terms, based on division and subdivision of the length of the day, that people decided to more precisely define the second based on a more precise standard.

To put it another way, suppose that we had defined an hour as being 1/10 of a day, a minute as being 1/100 of that, and a second as being 1/100 of a minute. This arbitrary subdivision would be just as valid, though just as arbitrary, as the one we use. People could then take the duration of this arbitrary second, and attempt to define it more precisely using a more precise standard, such as a certain number of oscillations of a cesium atom.

Then people like you, in this hypothetical universe, could claim, "Well, since the length of the second is defined by a measure independant of the length of the day, that proves scientifically that there are 100000 seconds in a day. It's a discovery!"

Except that it's not. We already had a definition for the second. We came up with a more precise definition, based on a different standard, that still pretty much corresponded to the duration of a second that everyone was accustomed to.
 
2005-01-20 01:40:24 PM
HexRei

Except that scientists arbitrarily said that one second is the time it takes a cesium atom to vibrate 9,192,631,770 times and therefore maintaining the arbitrary convention of 60 seconds = 1 minute etc. They could have just as easily defined the second so that there would be 100 seconds in a minute and 10 hours in a day, etc.

Not really arguing, I guess, just bored I suppose.

Oh, and I suppose it goes without saying, but Bill O'Reilly is a retard.
 
2005-01-20 01:43:49 PM
Bah! Preview before post ON!
 
2005-01-20 01:47:30 PM
Preview uber sherman?
 
2005-01-20 01:51:01 PM
re: 'God created the virus as a tool to kill the non-believers.'

Maybe that's why Chimpy suggests Africa put their 'faith in god' but when he gets sick he goes to the White House staff doctor?
 
2005-01-20 01:59:40 PM
Bukharin, yeah, I reckon so, and since preview > sherman and sherman > all, therefore preview uber alles?

I guess I got hypmotized by the atomic clocks. Here I was thinking they had something to do with radioactive decay or something...

That said, who the hell cares if a clock is off by one second in 30 million years? We'll all be dead! Having all these cesium clocks lying around is just asking for Dr. Who to try and steal it to power his time machine!
 
2005-01-20 02:01:59 PM
That said, who the hell cares if a clock is off by one second in 30 million years?

Indeed. I doubt men will ever make anything that needs that amount of precision.
 
2005-01-20 02:05:21 PM
Are you saying that maybe I shouldn't have my cesium clock up for sale on eBay? Damn, and the bids were getting pretty high too.
 
2005-01-20 02:07:15 PM
Steve French

quite possibly. The way I figure it's about overdue for the G-man to go Old Testament on our ass. He's been too lenient since he had his son. I guess it's true what they say, having children changes you...
 
2005-01-20 02:07:22 PM
Time is relative.
 
2005-01-20 02:08:22 PM
Well, hell. add a </b> where appropriate.

and my preview WAS on that time...
 
2005-01-20 02:23:06 PM
Time Waits
By The Lone Rhinoceros

Time wasted, wasted worrying
Hurrying down the same street
Time beats with every moment
Eroding from under my feet

Time waits, it waits for no one
And here i sit, i'm standing still
Time waits
I'd like to go on but i'm out of time

My own doubt eats a hole
From the inside out through my plans
Work it out, i need to now
But i don't know how to begin

Time waits, it waits for no one
And here i sit, i'm standing still
Time waits
I'd like to go on but i'm out of time

And if i could make it stop
Or if i could have what i've lost
In time
 
2005-01-20 02:26:00 PM
cryinoutloud

If you can spend several thousand dollars on a clock,
you can afford to be late.
 
2005-01-20 02:31:27 PM
I don't know if anyone has stated this before--no time to read the thread..


This strain of avian flu has a death rate in humans of 75%. The Spanish influenza virus of 1918 had a death rate of 3-5%.

It is exceedingly easy for viruses to mutate, especially when two different strains infect the same host.

This is why people are concerned.
 
2005-01-20 02:40:40 PM
Wow-

good thing I didn't read the thread. It's all just one-a-those evolution flamewars.

Funny that god spent so much time intelligent-designing these virus thingies. They sure cause his flock a ton of problems and sorrow.
 
2005-01-20 02:42:58 PM
re: 'having children changes you...'

It didn't change me one bit. I told my kids god was a fake, like Santa Claus - something we invented to scare small children into behaving and adults with the brains of small children as a means of social control.
Fairy tales for large children who are incapable of making moral and ethical judgements for themselves due to lack of intelligence and/or education.
/raised Lutheran
 
2005-01-20 02:44:37 PM
Steve French

Wow. You are my dad, except raised Lutheran.
 
2005-01-20 02:51:46 PM
mmmmmmm...pandemic...

It's funny 'cause it's true!
 
2005-01-20 02:57:44 PM
WizardX:

Oh, please. The WHO pulls this scaremongering crap every couple years. Remember the huge SARS scare? When you got down to brass tacks, it was only slightly more fatal than NORMAL flu. (in countries that track it, including Canada and China)

i know, but academics and scientists tend to exaggerate in order to get government funding. i guess the WHO is running low on resources. hey, these guys have children to put through college too, you know...
 
2005-01-20 03:05:25 PM
You know what, Steve, now that you mention it, my dad didn't change, either, and this whole "God" thing is starting to sound fishy...
I did get Santa and God growing up, tho. And I already got reamed by my fiancee about saying the former doesn't exist...

/raised quasi-catholic
 
2005-01-20 03:16:47 PM
HexRei
Did someone forget to tell the headline writer that about 3/4 of the world believes in creationism, not evolution

I really doubt that statistic. Maybe in the 3rd world, and even there many of those folks probably believe in some sort of other non-Christian creation mythology. As others said you need to produce a citation. I'm sure in most of the rest of the devolped world; Europe, Japan etc. most people accept evolution as the description as to how life evolved.

In any case, sience is not democratic.
 
2005-01-20 03:30:55 PM
Some day, not today but soon, I am going to get around to asking the "Intelligent Design" people what they think about the evolution of languages. This works by almost exactly the same mechanism as biological evolution, and is faster, and can be seen in action, and yet didn't the Bible claim that all languages were given by God?

But that's for some other discussion. The real question here is what namby-pamby tree-huggin anti-Big Business Liberal group is trying to drum up support for this bird flu bullshiat? Clearly it is yet another of their tricks to steal profits out of the pockets of entrepeneurs and turn the world into a festering dogpile of commie simps.

/Sprinkle sarcasticons liberally throughout the above~
 
2005-01-20 03:33:58 PM
The trouble is, scientists superstitiously believe that we are due another pandemic.

0ok
 
2005-01-20 03:50:39 PM
ookdalibrarian

The trouble is, scientists superstitiously believe that we are due another pandemic.

You're right. It's not like we've had a few bad hands at the blackjack table and we're DUE for a win... They're like, well we haven't had one for awhile so we're 'bout due, I reckon
 
2005-01-20 03:51:45 PM
ookdalibrarian: The trouble is, scientists superstitiously believe that we are due another pandemic.

0ok


Oh, really....?
 
2005-01-20 03:52:17 PM
headline made me laugh out loud. Nice work!
 
2005-01-20 04:04:41 PM
re: 'get around to asking the "Intelligent Design" people what they think about the evolution of languages.'

Pretty much anything applies. Everything is 'way too complicated' to have arisen all on its own, according to superstition.
A rock, for example. The seasons. The sun coming up.
Space. A black hole. The universe. Motor Cars.
It's all just a big ole fully wully riddle to the porch pickers strumming Dueling Banjos while pondering the mysteries of life.
Ignorance might be bliss, but it's unrewarding.
 
2005-01-20 04:12:53 PM
we have the scientific method

Which by the way, accounts for our high standard of life, our progress as a society, and our great success as a species.
While religion accounts forum, well, nothing really.
Hasnt been able to explain or predict one single thing yet in the history of superstition.
Odd how some people still cling to such foolishness, but oh well. As long as they keep it to themselves, I don't really care.
For all I care you can 'believe' in alien space ships trailing the Hale Bopp coming to whisk you away to a 72 virgins paradise.
Why not expedite the process? (leave me out, though)
 
2005-01-20 04:23:35 PM
Steve French

Which by the way, accounts for our high standard of life, our progress as a society, and our great success as a species.
While religion accounts forum, well, nothing really.


Now be fair. Religion was the pretext, or part of the reason, for most wars in recorded history. It was also used as a justification for European imperialism, colonization, and the slave trade that has so thoroughly farked up many places around the globe. After all, we were just bringing the true religion to the godless savages, and if we took their land and resources for our troubles, then that was our right by the grace of God. I won't even go into the Spanish Inquisition. Doing God's work indeed. So the power of religion has accomplished an awful lot.
 
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