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(Yahoo)   Head of the Catholic Church in Spain condones the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS. Excommunication in five... four... three...   (story.news.yahoo.com ) divider line
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6291 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2005 at 3:23 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-19 11:03:35 AM  
That anyone has listened to anything the Church has said in the last fifty years is a sure sign of some sort of really bad, civilization-scarring societal trend, but I can't figure out exactly what.
 
2005-01-19 11:07:48 AM  
I submitted this with a funnier headline 3 seconds after you did ;)
 
2005-01-19 11:10:31 AM  
Great. Now he should promote the use of sodomy to prevent the spread of children.

Spain does have one of the lowest birthrates in the world, though. You wouldn't expect it of a primarily Catholic country.
 
2005-01-19 11:13:23 AM  
I welcome the church to the 21st century.
 
2005-01-19 11:13:27 AM  
Well, there goes my issue with the Catholic church. Good for them. Preventing AIDS among your followers is a bigger problem than the morality of birth control. Let's hope this expands into other nations.
 
2005-01-19 11:14:10 AM  
kronicfeld
Nah. Like the church, lots of people are uncomfortable with, and therefore resistant to change. It'll all work out. (I hope.)
 
2005-01-19 11:16:03 AM  
Good for them. Preventing AIDS among your followers is a bigger problem than the morality of birth control. Let's hope this expands into other nations.

Whoa buddy, who they are and what they did in life is to be judged by Mickey Christ in the Disney Land in the Sky, not by you. It's Mickey Christ's will that we don't use condoms.

Does anyone have $75,000 to donate to further God's will? We need the gold in the church to be cleaned and the volunteers never get it right so we have to send it away to be cleaned.
 
2005-01-19 11:20:08 AM  
Go Spain go.
 
2005-01-19 11:20:20 AM  
That's one small step for man... one giant leap for Spanish catholic fornicators

/catholic
 
2005-01-19 11:21:09 AM  
Perhaps now they'll feel comfortable taking on that whole Earth-being-flat issue.

Seriously, as a lapsed Catholic due to Rome's stupidity, I am happy to see the Spaniards take this move. Perhaps the American cardinals can see the light as well and get their shiat together.
 
2005-01-19 11:27:05 AM  
Perhaps now they'll feel comfortable taking on that whole Earth-being-flat issue.

i believe that dogma was revoked in 1992.
 
2005-01-19 11:27:31 AM  
Holy Moly putting the welfare of his flock before the militant dogma of the Holy See?

Nobody expected this Spaniard's new position.
 
2005-01-19 11:29:19 AM  
Well, the Spanish church has always been out-there. Still doesn't beat the best method for preventing the spread of AIDS: abstaining from sex.
 
2005-01-19 11:29:46 AM  
I'm shocked, shocked, I tell ya'!!

About freaking time they start making inroads in the modern world.
 
2005-01-19 11:32:09 AM  
The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

more details from that retard Trujillo...
 
2005-01-19 11:34:13 AM  
Atvar: the best method for preventing the spread of AIDS: abstaining from sex.

Not breathing prevents death by smoke inhalation too. Shooting yourself usually prevents Cancer.

/Maybe just because it'd be more effective doesn't make it a sensible idea.
 
2005-01-19 11:37:24 AM  
They told us in church youth group 10 years ago that trying to stop hiv with a condom was like trying to stop a golf ball with a volley ball net. This could've been a scare tactic but it stayed with me for some reason.


/don't fark with the hiv
 
2005-01-19 11:39:06 AM  
scootah

Well not that I think abstinence is really going to go over well with them 'thar teenagers, but hopefully you were kidding with those analogies.
 
2005-01-19 11:58:12 AM  
hazeleyedwolff:

They told us in church youth group 10 years ago that trying to stop hiv with a condom was like trying to stop a golf ball with a volley ball net.

Technically, yes. Virii travel in host cells, though, and the host cells are easily impeded by the latex condom.
 
2005-01-19 11:58:38 AM  
Suggesting abstinance is IMHO an equally ludicrous suggestion really. It just doesn't work. Catholic priests and little boys are the ultimate anecdotal evidence that prolonged abstinance damages your sanity.

We are biologically pre-programmed and intended to start farking in our teens and to do it as often as possible into our later life. Every part of our evolution, every part of our genetics and our history has been aimed at continuing the species. Every impulse and instinct we have says 'go forth and procreate!' Getting people to wrap their wang is one thing, telling them to just go without is laughable.
 
2005-01-19 12:11:09 PM  
Atvar:
Well, the Spanish church has always been out-there. Still doesn't beat the best method for preventing the spread of AIDS: abstaining from sex.

And conservatives get angry when we call 'em stupid.
 
2005-01-19 01:23:15 PM  
scootah:

Not breathing prevents death by smoke inhalation too. Shooting yourself usually prevents Cancer.

There's some sort of logical fallacy in this logic, butI'm not sure which one. You can live without sex, it's just less pleasurable. You cannot live if you stop breathing or shoot yourself.

hazeleyedwolff:

They told us in church youth group 10 years ago that trying to stop hiv with a condom was like trying to stop a golf ball with a volley ball net. This could've been a scare tactic but it stayed with me for some reason.

The Catholic argument is a very partial representation of the truth. You need to know the whole truth:

I will divide the truth into two segments. The first segment is the manufacturing process.

1) A perfect layer of latex does not have any naturally-occuring pores.
2) The manufacturing process of condoms is, like most things, imperfect.
3) During the manufacturing of a condom, pores are almost always introduced. The occurrence of the pores is random, but the latex in a condom is going to have a large number of irregularly-placed pores.
4) These pores are indeed many times larger than the HIV virus, but much smaller than a sperm.
5) Although there are a large number of pores, the vast majority of the surface of a condom is solid.
6) Lucky for you, condom manufacturers place two to three layers of latex on top of each other. While each layer will have its fair share of pores, the number of pores that are aligned enough to produce an opening going all the way from the inside of a condom to the outside will be very small. In fact, this usually won't happen on a condom.

Now we get to the fun part: The sex. Let's assume that you are HIV-positive.

1) Being a good boy, you properly apply a condom before making any genital-genital contact.
2) You proceed with the sex and ejaculate.
3) What do you ejaculate? Well, there's a viscous fluid (semen) that contains numerous things. Three of them are important: Sperm, white blood cells that contain HIV viruses, and free HIV viruses.
4) The semen hits the inside of the condom, and stops. Stuff that hits a solid part of the condom (that's the vast majority of the stuff, by the way) are stopped and swish around a bit.
5) A significant number of things will hit a pore on the innermost layer of the condom. However, they will be stopped by layers 2 and/or 3 of the condom, which are unbroken. Therefore, these things are stopped and swish around a bit.
6) A small number of things will hit a pore going from the inside of the condom to the outside, due to a set of (unfortunately for you) aligned pores.
7) Although the pore goes all the way from the inside to the outside of the condom, sperm is too big to get through. It stops and swishes around. The white blood cells carrying HIV viruses are also too big to get through. They stop and swish around. Now, it is possible that a few "free" HIV viruses do, in fact, get outside the condom
8) Although this sounds scary, there are several factors working in your favor: First, the concentration of free HIV viruses in your sperm is very low. Second, the occurrence of pores going all the way from the inside to the outside of the condom is very low. This guarantees that only a few HIV viruses, if any, get through. HIV viruses are not intelligent and they are in fact not motile. They will not be able to seek out openings in the condom by their own; they must be carried through by the semen.
9) A few HIV viruses aren't going to cause the other person to become HIV-positive. An infection is caused when a large number of HIV viruses are introduced to a person's body. A few simply will not catch on. If you use a condom properly, and it does not break or slip, you are in fact 10,000 times less likely to spread your disease than someone not using a condom. If you are not HIV-positive and your female partner is, you are even less likely to contract HIV because the virus will have to flow into the condom and into some sort of nearby opening in which to infect your bloodstream.

Don't believe me? Read some other material.

Latex does not naturally have any pores, but studies show that manufacturing processes can lead to the presence of microscopic holes. However, the risk of HIV transmission is minute. The presence of tiny holes in some condoms is unlikely to matter much. HIV is non-motile and is suspended in a viscous fluid, semen, in which it is often attached to white blood cells that are much larger than the virus itself. Two or three thin layers of latex are used, and holes would have to be aligned to let the virus pass through; enough viral particles would have to pass through to cause infection, not just one or two.

A widely quoted and misrepresented laboratory study showing some leakage in 29 or 89 condoms tested in simulated use needs careful analysis. PATH (1994) reports that the study involved viral-size micro spheres in concentration 100 million times that of HIV in semen. These were subject to the equivalent of 10 minutes of coital thrusting after ejaculation. Even then, the authors report that less than 0.01% of the volume leaked through. Therefore the authors concluded that even in the worst case scenario, (provided the condom does not break) condoms barrier effectiveness provides 10 000 times more protection than no condom at all.


Here is a more proper analogy.

Take three sheets of cardboard, each the size of, say, one side of the Empire State Building.

At random, blast a few hundred basketball-sized holes in each piece of cardboard.

Stack the three pieces of cardboard on top of each other. You won't see many holes going all the way through the three pieces. You may not see any at all.

At random, shoot a few thousand marbles at the cardboard wall. See how many get through the pre-existing holes in the wall. I bet it's not very many.
 
2005-01-19 01:54:19 PM  
elchip

You had me at "segments".

*swoon*
 
2005-01-19 03:22:22 PM  
I've always wondered about that Catholic no-birth-control thingy. You believe it to be immoral? Fine with me. But what troubles me is that Catholics have a statistically significant higher rate of abortions than do members of other Christian denominations. Which is worse? Stopping the conception or the conceptus?
 
2005-01-19 03:27:37 PM  
What a give-up. What is this, Catholicism light? Believe and follow the rules or don't. Don't just change them for convenience, like the BCS. I suppose that whole baptism/christening thing will be optional next.
 
2005-01-19 03:30:26 PM  
I always knew the Spanish were soft on condoms.
 
2005-01-19 03:30:26 PM  
the reason aids spread so quickly was because of great replubicans who stated it was was god's punishment to the gays.
 
2005-01-19 03:30:39 PM  
" The change in view was welcomed by the Spanish Federation of Lesbians, Gays, Transsexuals and Bisexuals."


The Church still says you're going to hell.
 
2005-01-19 03:30:41 PM  
Poke for the Pope, but cover it up first.
 
2005-01-19 03:31:22 PM  
Ex-communication breakdown,
Its always the same,
I'm having a nervous breakdown,
Drive me insane!


/lame
 
2005-01-19 03:31:34 PM  
The pope is an old coot.
fark him.
 
2005-01-19 03:32:05 PM  
What the fark is wrong with the Catholic church. If it isn't raping little boys, raping the land, raping the poor, torturing indeginous peoples, nuns beating the shiat out of you, it's a fear of wrapping the rascal. No wonder my Irish mother doesn't attend ANY church.
 
2005-01-19 03:32:25 PM  
Since when has Fark begun to consider anything about religion as "cool"?

/catholic
 
2005-01-19 03:32:29 PM  
ALL Christians should use condoms ALL THE TIME!

We have too many little brainwashed bastards running around already!
 
2005-01-19 03:32:48 PM  
Bukharin
The pope is an old coot.
fark him.


...bareback, I assume?
 
2005-01-19 03:35:12 PM  
[image from ai.mit.edu too old to be available]

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
 
2005-01-19 03:35:38 PM  
Won't God get quite irate?

/every sperm is sacred
 
2005-01-19 03:35:39 PM  
I dunno guys... I mean, when when will I ever be in Haiti again?
 
2005-01-19 03:35:54 PM  
so not every sperm IS sacred?
 
2005-01-19 03:36:32 PM  
SherKhan

Holy Moly putting the welfare of his flock before the militant dogma of the Holy See?

Nobody expected this Spaniard's new position.


Well played :) The Flying Circus would be pleased.
 
2005-01-19 03:37:05 PM  
I see the Catholics are abandoning their beliefs! Guess the Bible was so perfect after all! And all it takes is the threat of the death of your followers!. farking idiot god believers.
 
2005-01-19 03:38:01 PM  
[image from img.fark.com too old to be available]
 
2005-01-19 03:38:07 PM  
elchip
There's some sort of logical fallacy in this logic, butI'm not sure which one. You can live without sex, it's just less pleasurable. You cannot live if you stop breathing or shoot yourself.
Applying the universal imperative to this statement, you'll find that your logic is just as faulty.
 
2005-01-19 03:38:09 PM  
About damn time people in the church stopped thinking it was still 1500. Maybe this will spread throughout the church.
 
2005-01-19 03:39:07 PM  
That's the Spanish for you. Even the priests have balls.
 
2005-01-19 03:39:32 PM  
I don't get it. Aren't Catholics not supposed to have sex until they are married? And if you meet someone with Aids or HIV, just don't let yourself fall in love with them. Why would this guy tell people that while they are breaking one commandment, they can break another while they are at it. It's like telling a burglar that it is OK to break a few pieces of glass while they are robbing your house.
 
2005-01-19 03:39:41 PM  
Mark one up for common sense!
 
2005-01-19 03:39:54 PM  
Didn't take long to fix this slip.
 
2005-01-19 03:40:14 PM  
UncleBuck4U


ALL Christians should use condoms ALL THE TIME!

We have too many little brainwashed bastards running around already!

-------maybe Bush and his cronies should try this technique in the Middle East as a way to defeat the enemy. Seeing those kids reading the Koran in Madrassas rocking back and forth looking like brainwashed robots is scary.
 
2005-01-19 03:40:41 PM  
One upon a time in the US, because of the Cumstop Comstock laws, condoms used to say on the package: "For prevention of disease only." Yeah, sure.
 
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