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(Globe and Mail)   Parents who went to college are more likely to produce children who will go to college, become liberal for a few years before transforming into conservatives   (theglobeandmail.com) divider line 309
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9872 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jan 2005 at 5:21 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2005-01-18 02:50:37 PM  
I know this is true because I are one.
 
2005-01-18 02:53:50 PM  
Mybe off-topic, but this calls to mind

"Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain."

--Churchill
 
2005-01-18 02:54:23 PM  
Word!!
 
2005-01-18 02:59:15 PM  
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea"

- Robert Anton Wilson
 
2005-01-18 02:59:39 PM  
you don't go conservative until you get your first property tax bill.

first you move from liberal to moderate after you get your first real job pay stub and see how much in taxes is yoinked before you get to see it.
 
2005-01-18 03:00:20 PM  
We're all liberals until we make some real money. Or so I've heard.

/Liberal
//No real money
 
2005-01-18 03:06:23 PM  
Its true because people only care about themselves. When they are young and poor, they want handouts and a social safety net, when they aren't poor they just want lower taxes. Of course, seeing as how our conservative government is racking up the largest deficit ever, I say what's the difference? Pay now, or pay later, neither party is going to reduce the size of the government.
 
2005-01-18 03:06:36 PM  
kurt-roges:

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea"

indeed.
 
2005-01-18 03:08:00 PM  
Yep, and the now conservative children produce a bunch of liberal children/grandchildren who may be lucky enough to become conservatives.

Life is cyclical
 
2005-01-18 03:13:19 PM  
grenma:

"Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain."

--Churchill



Churchill never said that.
 
2005-01-18 03:15:09 PM  
Its true because people only care about themselves

*quizzical dog face*
who are they supposed to care about?
 
2005-01-18 03:16:50 PM  
2005-01-18 03:06:23 PM J.Garcia'sRightMiddleFinger


Its true because people only care about themselves. When they are young and poor, they want handouts and a social safety net, when they aren't poor they just want lower taxes. Of course, seeing as how our conservative government is racking up the largest deficit ever, I say what's the difference? Pay now, or pay later, neither party is going to reduce the size of the government.


I made a bet with myself that you are under 25. Only those wholly lacking in genuine life experience are that cynical.
 
2005-01-18 03:20:58 PM  
lol, I can't believe they greenlit this!
 
2005-01-18 03:24:32 PM  
J.Garcia'sRightMiddleFinger:

Its true because people only care about themselves. When they are young and poor, they want handouts and a social safety net, when they aren't poor they just want lower taxes. Of course, seeing as how our conservative government is racking up the largest deficit ever, I say what's the difference? Pay now, or pay later, neither party is going to reduce the size of the government.

yup
 
2005-01-18 03:26:47 PM  
This is going to be the mother of flame wars, but before that gets started, I want to say that I don't buy that liberal to conservative argument anymore.

Back in the day, before 2000, when conservativism was more about limited government and financial conservativism instead of religion and social conservativism, I may have believed it. But now, if you're a socially liberal, you're not going to change your mind after 20 years. As one earns more money and moves up the income bracket ladder, one may be inclined to move to the right on economic and financial issues but not on social issues. So I believe that people as they get older move economically to the right but socially, they pretty much stay the same.
 
2005-01-18 03:27:48 PM  
I wonder if this'll make conservative families avoid college?

Reminds me for some reason of the Monty Python skit where the author father is disgusted by his coal-mining son. I guess, except the opposite.

"Good! good? What do you know about it? What do you know about getting up at five o'clock in t'morning to fly to Paris, back at the Old Vic for drinks at twelve, sweating the day through press interviews, television interviews and getting back here at ten to wrestle with the problem of a homosexual nymphomaniac drug addict involved in the ritual murder of a well known Scottish footballer. That's a full working day, lad, and don't you forget it!"
 
2005-01-18 03:28:17 PM  
To finish my point, because I hit Add Comment too soon:

Nowadays, American conservatives are not financial conservatives. They spend at a rate that compares to the worst of the liberal spenders. They are social conservatives and devout pracitioners of religoin. Those last two traits are more indicative today of political leanings. I believe those don't drastically change over the course of one's life.
 
2005-01-18 03:28:19 PM  
But now, if you're a socially liberal, you're not going to change your mind after 20 years

in general, sure, but things can change once you have kids and they start growing up and get exposed more and more to the culture
 
2005-01-18 03:31:05 PM  
albo:

in general, sure, but things can change once you have kids and they start growing up and get exposed more and more to the culture

I dunno, I mean, my Dad's more left-leaning than I am (and that's saying a lot), and he's been moving steadily left-of-centre since he was in his 30s and started to find out what the industry he worked in at the time was doing to the environment.
 
2005-01-18 03:35:27 PM  
I go both ways.
 
2005-01-18 03:37:18 PM  
I'm 37. So is my wife. Our household income is way above the median, just inching over the six figure mark. We lean towards liberal. We both voted for Kerry last time around. We would have considered Bush, but we never heard an intelligent reason to vote for him. And we don't know of any intelligent people who did vote for him.
 
2005-01-18 03:37:56 PM  
BTW, we both went to the University of Kentucky.
 
2005-01-18 03:38:41 PM  
lucidity-"TUNGSTEN CARBIDE DRILLS!!" Ah, I forget the rest...
 
2005-01-18 03:42:11 PM  
Only solution -- Home Colleging!
 
2005-01-18 03:42:59 PM  
We would have considered Bush, but we never heard an intelligent reason to vote for him. And we don't know of any intelligent people who did vote for him.

really. that's strang

BTW, we both went to the University of Kentucky

oh, that explains it!
 
2005-01-18 03:46:22 PM  
Does this mean that in twenty years I'll finally love America?
 
2005-01-18 03:47:34 PM  
CheddarPants:

We would have considered Bush, but we never heard an intelligent reason to vote for him. And we don't know of any intelligent people who did vote for him.

That's funny because I didn't know many intelligent Kerry voters. Almost all I met were naive college kids.

TalkingBaseball:

So I believe that people as they get older move economically to the right but socially, they pretty much stay the same.

Good news for the liberatarian party, and I also believe it to be true.
 
2005-01-18 03:55:45 PM  
And we don't know of any intelligent people who did vote for him.

You weren't looking, then. I know a large number of attorneys, doctors, accountants and other professionals who voted for Bush. And many who voted for Kerry. I also know some desperately ignorant people who voted for Kerry. Both candidates had their share of each, I am sure.
 
2005-01-18 03:55:56 PM  
Just be a libertarian and get the best of both worlds - heart and brain.
 
2005-01-18 03:56:29 PM  
missmez:

I made a bet with myself that you are under 25. Only those wholly lacking in genuine life experience are that cynical.



Funny, I thought it was you were optimistic when young (hence the liberal 'let's fix all the world's problems' mentality) and you get more cynical and bitter when old, so you become conservative and stop caring about those who are less fortunate. Yeah, I'm 23, I have been out of school and working for just about 2 years now (and have worked since I was 16), so I am not as experienced as, say, someone who's 35 with kids, but I am not 'wholly lacking in life experience'. I'm cynical mainly because of the apathy/ self-centeredness of people, especially those my own age.
 
2005-01-18 03:56:39 PM  
Nabb1: Both candidates had their share of each, I am sure.

You're pretty much assured of that when you have a 52/48 split in voters, I think.
 
2005-01-18 04:02:03 PM  
and you get more cynical and bitter when old, so you become conservative and stop caring about those who are less fortunate.

just because conservatives don't believe in a statist solution to a social problem doesn't mean they "stop caring" about the less fortunate. there are other solutions than just having a government agency belch checks. witness the 1996 welfare reforms, the amount of money people donate to private charities, the volunteer work many, many so-called conservatives do.

be a little more liberal and open minded in your thinking, and don't swallow the stereotypes about the people you don't like
 
2005-01-18 04:03:44 PM  
J.Garcia'sRightMiddleFinger:

so you become conservative and stop caring about those who are less fortunate.

Are you always this naive?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2005-01-18 04:08:55 PM  
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea"

"Out on the road today I saw a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac"
 
2005-01-18 04:09:48 PM  
God, it took a while for my fourth approved link.
 
2005-01-18 04:11:29 PM  
congrats, OneHandFapping. that means you have to buy drinks for the thread
 
2005-01-18 04:12:54 PM  
Arnold T Pants
Are you always this naive?


albo:

be a little more liberal and open minded in your thinking, and don't swallow the stereotypes about the people you don't like

I'm just going on the stereotype of why one changes from liberal to conservative (see also the quote that was mis-attributed to churchill). Never once did I say I believed it. I was responding to missmez saying she thought I was under 25 because I was so cynical. I was just noting that it is funny that she thought I was young for being cynical, when I always thought that was the stereotype for older people.
 
2005-01-18 04:17:23 PM  
alcoholic, J. Garcia:
Look here (pops) and see:

To be conservative at 20 is heartless and to be a liberal at 60 is plain idiocy.
Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 - 1965)


Not that that actually proves it, of course, but I have heard this attributed to him too.
 
2005-01-18 04:22:31 PM  
2005-01-18 03:56:29 PM J.Garcia'sRightMiddleFinger

missmez:

I made a bet with myself that you are under 25. Only those wholly lacking in genuine life experience are that cynical.


Funny, I thought it was you were optimistic when young (hence the liberal 'let's fix all the world's problems' mentality) and you get more cynical and bitter when old, so you become conservative and stop caring about those who are less fortunate. Yeah, I'm 23, I have been out of school and working for just about 2 years now (and have worked since I was 16), so I am not as experienced as, say, someone who's 35 with kids, but I am not 'wholly lacking in life experience'. I'm cynical mainly because of the apathy/ self-centeredness of people, especially those my own age.


Yes, so you'd think. But genuine empathy comes from personal experience. I find most of the time, the older people get, the more caring they are.
 
2005-01-18 04:22:48 PM  
albo:

Its true because people only care about themselves

*quizzical dog face*
who are they supposed to care about?


*THIS IS A GENERALIZATION*

I must have missed where I said people shouldn't care about themselves. My point was people vote solely based on their own self-interest. This is why the voting pattern is as described in the article. If people voted based on what they thought was best for society as a whole, the voting pattern would be different.
 
2005-01-18 04:24:55 PM  
missmez:

Yes, so you'd think. But genuine empathy comes from personal experience. I find most of the time, the older people get, the more caring they are.



I'll have to take your word on that.... Hopefully you are right.
 
2005-01-18 04:27:45 PM  
If people voted based on what they thought was best for society as a whole, the voting pattern would be different.

but that doesn't make sense. people wouldn't do that. it's not in human nature. it's like asking a person to breathe water. and concern for one's self-interest is the thing that makes our country great. it's basic to the free market:

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our necessities but of their advantages."
--Adam Smith
 
2005-01-18 04:28:32 PM  
ZAZ: Out on the road today I saw a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac

Music transcends personal beliefs. I'm a fan of the dead, and I used to travel with Phish, but I hate most of the stereotypical deadhead beliefs.
 
2005-01-18 04:32:23 PM  
albo: but that doesn't make sense. people wouldn't do that. it's not in human nature



I agree, I'm not faulting people for it, I was just more or less trying to explain the voting pattern as a direct result of people voting in their own self-interest, because I expected conservatives to hop on this thread and turn the pattern into some sort of 'its because you wise up and become conservative' type thing. By the way, I consider myself neither liberal nor conservative, so don't think my earlier posts were attempting to demonize members of either group. The only group I genuinely dislike is the religious right.
 
2005-01-18 04:32:46 PM  
Arnold T Pants:

ZAZ was quoting a Don Henley song, "The Boys of Summer." Not a good song, either, IMO.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2005-01-18 04:40:18 PM  
Not a good song, either, IMO.

But a good line.
 
2005-01-18 04:52:13 PM  
Did I miss the part in the article where it talked about being liberal or conservative or are we all just having fun with the headline?
 
2005-01-18 04:57:01 PM  
what about nader? or yourmom
 
2005-01-18 05:24:25 PM  
show me [TotalFark]
Not only did he say it, he crossed the floor of the House of Commons from the liberals to the conservatives.
 
2005-01-18 05:26:17 PM  
albo: you don't go conservative until you get your first property tax bill


Perfect! I'm not sure when it happened, but it was probably around that time.
 
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