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(Durant Democrat)   Mystified at how they wound up portrayed as a ruthless corporation that exploits a poorly-paid work force, Wal-Mart takes out 100 full-page ads in PR blitz   (durantdemocrat.com) divider line 491
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20314 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Jan 2005 at 5:56 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



491 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2005-01-13 11:53:18 AM  
Poor, poor Wal-mart. It is so misunderstood.
 
dpr
2005-01-13 11:59:27 AM  
My little bro worked for WalMart. He was once up for a position as a supervisor, and had to apply for it. So he did. He was then fired for a previous shoplifting charge (which he was acquitted of; he was just there when his friend actually stole from a store), even though this information was on his original application form when he was hired. Suealirity ensued and my bro got his job back.

Then he eventually found a job where he gets paid decent money and has healthcare. Good for him.
 
2005-01-13 12:04:33 PM  
Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot.
 
2005-01-13 12:05:03 PM  
Everyone should work at walmart for about a year, just to experience first hand what a bunch of bastards they are. I worked for a Sam's Club (walmart wholesale store) and it was an eye opener. It's not a business, it's a cult.
 
2005-01-13 12:07:26 PM  
Old Man Walton is probably screaming "Circle the wagons!" from his grave.
 
2005-01-13 12:09:16 PM  
CheddarPants: Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot.

Flame on!
 
2005-01-13 12:14:20 PM  
Check the Quick Poll on the left. WTF is that about?

Not much of a poll with only ONE ANSWER, morans!
 
2005-01-13 12:15:13 PM  
splishsplashfark, I like capitalism, too. But when it's company policy to compensate your employees so poorly that they're forced to rely on public assistance, that's just not a good thing for society at large.
 
2005-01-13 12:18:01 PM  
CheddarPants: Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot.

OK, so you tell me where I can get a computer keyboard, mouse, and DVD-ROM at 3:30 am then, smart guy.
 
2005-01-13 12:20:10 PM  
Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot

well, i'm convinced by that thesis.
 
2005-01-13 12:21:55 PM  
Doesn't matter if they took out whole sections of every major paper in the U.S. for 10 years- all their spin doesn't change the fact that they are just plain bad for U.S. business. On the other hand, they are great if you are a SE Asian manufacturer...'buy american' my ass. Fark Wal-Mart.

If you don't agree, you may want to go to watch this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

It sure was an eye-opener for me.
 
2005-01-13 12:24:48 PM  
CheddarPants, i missed the part in my economics book that says the free-market is a basketful of puppies.

blame yourself. blame your friends and family. blame me. blame all of us because we, as consumers, created wal-mart--with our wallets. and they gave us what we wanted.
 
2005-01-13 12:26:09 PM  
EatHam, I wouldn't buy any of those items at 3:30 AM. If I had something I had to do right away, I'd go to Kinko's or the library. Otherwise, I'd wait until the next day.
 
2005-01-13 12:30:10 PM  
http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/cheddarpants/current.html
 
2005-01-13 12:33:45 PM  
Cousin worked at Wal-Mart, and got to deal with the occasional naked man wandering through the aisles. Still spits out the window every time we pass one by.

For a class on globalization we went to visit the regional distribution center. Place was massive and scary. But not nearly as frightening as the people in it. Definitely cult-like. Attitude at the time was, "Yep, we put people out of business, and we don't give a damn. So long as we can offer sanitized Cds at low-low prices." Creepy. Haven't gone back to one since.
 
2005-01-13 12:35:30 PM  
I shop at Walmart just to spite all you tree-hugging, kid-labor crybabies.

I drive right past the Albertson's, the IGA, the Homeland and every other retailer just so I can get to Walmart. I even bank at Arvest, just to feed the corporate monster.

God bless Walmart.
 
2005-01-13 12:37:39 PM  
CheddarPants:

If I had something I had to do right away, I'd go to Kinko's or the library. Otherwise, I'd wait until the next day.

Well, then you have the luxury of choosing when you have computing emergencies. Some of my clients don't, and they pay good money to have that type of thing installed at whatever hour they want. Sometimes it's not in inventory and you have to go get it. Kinkos and the library both look down on horking parts from the public computers.
 
dpr
2005-01-13 12:38:41 PM  
kingwank:
God bless Walmart.

I highly doubt he does.
 
2005-01-13 12:40:45 PM  
"Yep, we put people out of business, and we don't give a damn. So long as we can offer sanitized Cds at low-low prices."

question: would you dislike wal-mart less if maybe they weren't so damn good at what they do (i.e., beating the competition)?
 
2005-01-13 12:41:54 PM  
And, for the record, just because I shop there doesn't mean I would ever work for them. I mean, first off, I wouldn't be able to grow a mullet. And, I couldn't dress that poorly without going to the thrift store...and I'd have to stop wearing deodorant...
 
2005-01-13 12:42:42 PM  
EatHam, point taken. Everybody lowers their standards when they don't have any other options. Kinda like taking a shiat in a public bathroom.
 
2005-01-13 12:43:00 PM  
you know, rather than funding a PR blitz, wouldn't it have been better to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us?
 
2005-01-13 12:43:16 PM  
My girlfriend's parents had a small business. Her stepfather worked 80+ hours a week to keep the place in business. Two WalMarts were built right next to it.

They celebrate when they put small, family-run business out of business. I will never shop there again.
 
2005-01-13 12:46:18 PM  
ashe3: They celebrate when they put small, family-run business out of business.

I bet if they wanted, Walmart would hire ma and pa to be greeters.
 
dpr
2005-01-13 12:46:23 PM  
Weaver95:

wouldn't it have been better to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us?

Yeah, but, you see that would be the "right" thing to do.
 
2005-01-13 12:50:53 PM  
God bless Walmart.

You just asked God to bless a store to spite people who dislike child labor.

Wow. I wanna party with you, Iceman.
 
2005-01-13 12:52:45 PM  
CheddarPants: Everybody lowers their standards when they don't have any other options.

And that was the point. I don't have too many philosophical objections to wal-mart, but I still hate shopping there. The stores are disgusting.
 
2005-01-13 01:05:01 PM  
I shop at Walmart just to spite all you tree-hugging, kid-labor crybabies.

Great, it's another white male on the internet who thinks its clever to be un-PC.

Do expect us to go,
"Oooooh, you sure showed us liberal pansies who care about people earning a living wage and the homogenization of every aspect of American life. Stop it with your hard light of truth. You're too scary for us Mr. Anti-Political Correctness."

Pffft.
 
2005-01-13 01:07:57 PM  
you know, rather than funding a PR blitz, wouldn't it have been better to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us.

And pay a decent wage.
I shop at Walmart just to spite all you tree-hugging, kid-labor crybabies.
I drive right past the Albertson's, the IGA, the Homeland and every other retailer just so I can get to Walmart. I even bank at Arvest, just to feed the corporate monster.
God bless Walmart.


I didn't realize today was "Show what an asshole you are" day. Well, carry on...
 
2005-01-13 01:10:54 PM  
I don't have too many philosophical objections to wal-mart, but I still hate shopping there. The stores are disgusting.

Actually, I find the sterile 'big brother' cult like atmosphere kind of comforting. But i'm weird like that.

My objections to WalMart have to do with their flagrant labor violations. I don't like it when any business thumbs it's nose at labor laws - they're there for a good reason.
 
2005-01-13 01:12:49 PM  
Just to clarify:

my "and pay a decent wage" comment seems to be lost above the troll quote. I was agreeing with Weaver95.
 
2005-01-13 01:13:39 PM  
So, I should go buy a friggin cheap ass inflatable donut to sit on my ass that just had surgery on it for $12.99 at CVS instead of $6.25 at Walmart? (just one of many recent things I'm glad I didn't buy at the other store instead of Walmart). Sorry if I don't want to pay double or more for some things.

Yeah, I guess its not a great place to work, but, nobody is forcing anyone to work anywhere.
 
2005-01-13 01:19:37 PM  
Weaver95:

Actually, I find the sterile 'big brother' cult like atmosphere kind of comforting. But i'm weird like that.

Your wal-mart is apparently different than mine. Mine has aisles that are about 8 inches wide, with everything in reach of toddlers pulled out and strewn all over the floor. Humongo people slowly trawling the food aisles like confused cattle, and mismatched locations of items and prices so you have a tough time figuring out what things cost.
 
2005-01-13 01:27:29 PM  
I like capitalism, too. But when it's company policy to compensate your employees so poorly that they're forced to rely on public assistance, that's just not a good thing for society at large.

Wal-Mart is one of capitalism's great success stories. If you like capitalism you should be worshipping Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 01:28:53 PM  
Your wal-mart is apparently different than mine.

The few times I've gone there it's usually after work (I work second shift and don't get off 'till midnight-ish). It's always quiet, very few people around and brightly lit by sterile white high powered florescent bulbs.

There's no way I'd go there during normal people hours.
 
2005-01-13 01:30:30 PM  
albo

Probably not. It's just another turd in the shiat heap. But at least then I could content myself with hoping they might go away sometime soon.
 
2005-01-13 01:31:57 PM  
Wal-Mart is one of capitalism's great success stories

Actually, it's not. It's closer to a caricature of a capitalist success story - it's almost if a bunch of college maoists/commies got together and dreamed up everything wrong about corporate america from their perspective. Then built it and set it loose on the world.

That's what wal-mart is like.
 
2005-01-13 01:37:44 PM  
2005-01-13 01:19:37 PM EatHam

Your wal-mart is apparently different than mine. Mine has aisles that are about 8 inches wide, with everything in reach of toddlers pulled out and strewn all over the floor. Humongo people slowly trawling the food aisles like confused cattle, and mismatched locations of items and prices so you have a tough time figuring out what things cost.

Aside from the fact that they sell shiat products, this is the main reason I won't ever set foot in a Wal-Mart ever again. I got a gift card for WM two Christmases ago and decided around March to finally go in there and by an Xbox.

It was absolute farking mayhem in there. Shiat on the floors everywhere. Kids running around screaming.

Never again. Never a-farking-gain.
 
2005-01-13 01:39:42 PM  
OK, so you tell me where I can get a computer keyboard, mouse, and DVD-ROM at 3:30 am then, smart guy.

Chris Rock: Do you know what the good side of crack is? If you're up at the right hour, you can get a VCR for $1.50. Hell you can furnish your whole house for about $10.95.
 
2005-01-13 02:46:40 PM  
CheddarPants

Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot.


Yeah, or just likes to get his three-month-old video games really cheap.
 
2005-01-13 03:10:56 PM  
I shop at Wal-Mart because I hate American workers and their stupid little manufacturing jobs that earn them enough to buy SUV's, pay taxes to build American "smart bombs" and have kids who think "freedom isn't free" is a damn good reason to go to Iraq and shoot cars that drive too fast.

Turning over this country to Chinese lenders can't happen soon enough for me. Stupidass motherfarking Bush voters.
 
2005-01-13 03:14:31 PM  
Step 1: Sign big supply contract with small stateside mom-and-pop manufacturer.
Step 2: Proundly announce this as an example of patriotism, of helping the local and national economy, while mom and pop are busily expanding their operation and purchasing new equipment to accomodate the greatly increased demand.
Step 3: Once out of the PR spotlight, use your newfound status as the purchaser of 90% of mom and pop's goods to put the screws to them. In the name of your customers, demand prices so low that mom and pop can't possibly hope to break even, much less make a profit.
Step 4: unable to continue operating on the profit from the other 10% of their customers, mom and pop file for bankruptcy - "forcing" you to seek products from other moms and pops or nations that are able to provide the goods cheaply.
Step 5: Profit like a motherfarker.

When you have some time to kill, read about what WalMart did to Vlasic.
 
2005-01-13 03:18:44 PM  
The only reason to go to Wal-Mart is if Jerry Springer somehow gets preempted.
 
2005-01-13 03:35:55 PM  
Why Wal-Mart is evil...

-----
Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer and owner of Sam's Club warehouse stores, gives more money to Republican candidates than any other company. Its top three managers, including chief executive H. Lee Scott, donated the individual maximum $2,000 to President George W. Bush, and Jay Allen, vice president for corporate affairs, raised at least $100,000 to reelect the president, earning him the Bush campaign's designation of ''Pioneer."

Wal-Mart -- two-thirds of whose 3,580 stores are in the ''red states" that voted for Bush in 2000 -- is backing White House policies on everything from trade to limiting overtime pay.

-----

'Nuff said.
 
2005-01-13 03:37:24 PM  
This link is now 404.

ps Walmart is the devil. next.
 
2005-01-13 03:51:51 PM  
Wal_mart has great clearances on kids' toys, clothes and gardening supplies at the end of season. I shop there. I'm sure it sucks to work there, but it's not my fault the employees didn't go to college.

You people who are too principled to shop there should stop phoning call centres, start digging your own ditches and picking up your own household garbage and driving it to the dump. I'm sure underpaid people laboring in poor conditions do that stuff too, but you're not wrapping yourself in their flag. If you all shopped in the family-owned stores you proclaim you love, it would be Wal-Mart that would be out of business.
 
2005-01-13 04:07:09 PM  
Wal_mart has great clearances on kids' toys, clothes and gardening supplies at the end of season
So does KMart. Except nobody shops there.

And by "great clearances", I mean you can find some things for 90% off. I got a $100 paintball gun there for $10, for instance.
 
2005-01-13 05:34:36 PM  
whats my choice?
spend 200bucks at Albertsons..$300 at the health food store..or $150 at Wal Mart ?
 
2005-01-13 05:59:35 PM  
EatHam:

OK, so you tell me where I can get a computer keyboard, mouse, and DVD-ROM at 3:30 am then, smart guy.

Not at Walmart in Spokanistan.
 
2005-01-13 06:00:13 PM  
kingwank: I shop at Walmart just to spite all you tree-hugging, kid-labor crybabies.

What the hell does that make you then? A corporation-hugger?

I think I'd rather hug a tree.
 
2005-01-13 06:01:26 PM  
Trees never enslaved South Americans and Asians by the thousands to make plastic pieces of shiat that fat Americans think they need.
 
2005-01-13 06:02:26 PM  
Farked -- 404 error.

/Off to Target to buy the same crap that Wal-Mart sells.
 
2005-01-13 06:03:56 PM  
Weaver95: okay you impostor, what have you done with the real Weaver95 ;)

You never cease to surprise me. That's a good thing.
 
2005-01-13 06:04:20 PM  
Hey, people. Nobody goes into business to lose money.

Retailers screw you no matter what. Even if you think you got a bargain, they still made money off of you.

That's how it works.
 
2005-01-13 06:04:26 PM  
Walmart-
Always low wages....
Always
 
2005-01-13 06:04:59 PM  
puffy999:

2005-01-13 01:39:42 PM puffy999 [TotalFark]

OK, so you tell me where I can get a computer keyboard, mouse, and DVD-ROM at 3:30 am then, smart guy.

Chris Rock: Do you know what the good side of crack is? If you're up at the right hour, you can get a VCR for $1.50. Hell you can furnish your whole house for about $10.95.


*clap*
 
2005-01-13 06:05:28 PM  
kingwank
I shop at Walmart just to spite all you tree-hugging, kid-labor crybabies.

Your name suits you just fine. In case you were wondering.
 
2005-01-13 06:05:32 PM  
albo:

question: would you dislike wal-mart less if maybe they weren't so damn good at what they do (i.e., beating the competition)?

This is what bugs me about Wal-Mart...

They pay their workers such low-low wages that the workers can't afford to shop anywhere BUT Wal-Mart.

It's the ultimate solution to the retailing problem of "how can I keep the customers coming back?"

Wal-Mart is evil, and American manufacturing businesses are suffering from the effect it has on the retailing world.
 
Ral
2005-01-13 06:05:42 PM  
Nobody holds a gun to people's heads to force them to work at Wal-Mart. Frankly, some of the people who work there seem to be so dumb that they would be unemployed welfare leeches if not for Wal-Mart.

In any case, they succeed because people shop there, and people shop there because they can get what they want at a price they like.

As for putting small companies out of business, sure, that happens. But in rural areas, there weren't any businesses there to start with. The Wal-Mart fills a genuine void for people who otherwise would have to drive 40 miles or more to shop for anything more complicated than milk and toilet paper.
 
2005-01-13 06:05:59 PM  
yes yes...and the Red Army needs boots!
 
2005-01-13 06:06:39 PM  
A friend of mine from NYC wanted to visit my local Wal-Mart out of morbid curiosity. Morbid obesity was more like it. We now refer to the place as Whale-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 06:07:05 PM  
 
2005-01-13 06:07:52 PM  
whatever..as far as i'm concerned its just a farking store. i'm sure i've dropped my cash at other places that have policies that i don't agree with.

i don't really have too many shopper principles. if i buy something at walmart i easily could've gone to futureshop or best buy or whatever...convenience and the cost are the only things i worry about.

walmart does have some dirt cheap prices though.
 
2005-01-13 06:08:46 PM  
actually the change in walmart happened after sam walton died....his family took over and turned the company public....greed of course ensued...i worked for walmart for 2 years...team leader of truck unloaders....they get treated the worst..as typical walmart i got screwed over and i quit...my fave walmart moment?...using their "open door" policy to talk about some problems my crew were having , i was locked in the office with the manager for over an hour getting reamed and told to quit whining...and i quote "i dont want the labor pains boy, i just want the baby" ..i still to this day once a week piss on his car...farktard
 
2005-01-13 06:08:52 PM  
I had a Sam's Club hot dog for lunch - and it was gooood.
 
2005-01-13 06:09:31 PM  
I don't not shop at Walmart because of their practices. I don't shop there because all they carry is low quality crap. I'll pay a little bit more $$ to get something decent.
 
2005-01-13 06:10:20 PM  
Just for the record: I effing hate Wal Mart.
 
2005-01-13 06:10:31 PM  
mtrans
It's not a business, it's a cult.

Just like Mormonism....oh wait...same damn thing!
 
M-G
2005-01-13 06:10:50 PM  
EatHam:

Well, then you have the luxury of choosing when you have computing emergencies. Some of my clients don't, and they pay good money to have that type of thing installed at whatever hour they want. Sometimes it's not in inventory and you have to go get it.

A spare keyboard and mouse aren't part of normal inventory for someone who needs their computer fixed at 3:30am? Or for the person who is getting paid good money to fix them?
 
2005-01-13 06:12:04 PM  
I have found that some independent stores are actually finding a way to beat Wal-Mart. I go to my neighborhood hardware store for most of my hardware because it's closer, nice people & easier shopping. Now if I am going to buy a chainsaw I will probably go to Wal-Mart but for a bucket of paint or something I go to the neighborhood shop. Same with grocery shopping if I need something for dinner or a 12 pack I go to Winn-Dixie but if I am having a party I go to Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 06:12:13 PM  
dletter:

So, I should go buy a friggin cheap ass inflatable donut to sit on my ass that just had surgery on it for $12.99 at CVS instead of $6.25 at Walmart? (just one of many recent things I'm glad I didn't buy at the other store instead of Walmart). Sorry if I don't want to pay double or more for some things.

Yeah, I guess its not a great place to work, but, nobody is forcing anyone to work anywhere.


Yes. Yes you should. Your money is a vote, in a sense. If you shop at Wal-Mart, it's like you're casting a vote for their business practices.

That may seem very esoteric, but it's true.
 
2005-01-13 06:12:16 PM  
I rather spend a couple more pennies and support a more socially-responsible, smaller company. I truly believe that the more we get behind the American worker, instead of the top 5% richest in this country, there would be more economic stability, less exporting jobs, and buying power. People looking for bargains, at any cost, like kingwank are destroying this country from within, like a cancer.
 
2005-01-13 06:13:04 PM  
I heard that the two largest shareholders in Wal-Mart were the Mormon church and the Bush administration.
 
M-G
2005-01-13 06:13:43 PM  
Cosmic_Music: Weaver95: okay you impostor, what have you done with the real Weaver95 ;)

I was kind of wondering the same thing....
 
2005-01-13 06:15:49 PM  
Wal-Mart is the Retail Outlet of the Chicom Conspiracy. My Uncles spilled their Red White and Blue American Guts on the Korean Peninsula fighting this Communist Conspiracy, now it's in my hometown, putting my druggist and my hardware man out of business with cheap product subsidized by a Commy government which believes itself to be engaged in economic war with us.

TREASON.
 
2005-01-13 06:15:49 PM  
I agree with Weaver95. I agree with Weaver95. I agree with Weaver95.


Jebus. I thought maybe if I said it 3 times I could go home. Guess not.


/Seriously, I agree with his posts.
 
2005-01-13 06:15:58 PM  
I know this is off topic but where is the boobies link???
I saw it this morning
 
2005-01-13 06:16:09 PM  
It amazes me how many people naively believe that the true "cost" of shopping at Wal-Mart is only the tally on their sales receipt.
 
2005-01-13 06:16:17 PM  


 
2005-01-13 06:16:41 PM  
From an article in the Seattle Times:

Wal-Mart, it seems to me, epitomizes the race to the bottom that has the United States by the throat as the 21st century opens.

Why do people shop at these behemoths, when they know full well that they are driving out of existence small businesses owned and operated by their neighbors, employing other neighbors?

They shop because of price, and they are forced to do so by the declining standard of living we have offered working people for more than a generation. People who work for minimum wage, with little or no benefits, who cannot afford to fix their car or their kids' teeth have no choice but to search out the lowest price.

Wal-Mart buys offshore, without apology and for the cheapest possible prices, from companies paying the lowest-possible wages.

As jobs in America are lost to foreign sweatshops to feed the Wal-Mart engine, American workers are forced to accept jobs at lower pay, with bad working conditions. They are funneled to Wal-Mart's promise of cheap goods, in effect patronizing the very companies that caused their economic misery.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2001859432_floyd18.html
 
2005-01-13 06:17:23 PM  
40below: and picking up your own household garbage and driving it to the dump

Obviously, you have no idea how much garbagemen really get paid. One of my co-workers was married to a garbageman, and she told me what he was making per year.

It's a pretty sweet deal, provided that you can handle all the lifting.
 
2005-01-13 06:18:42 PM  
Better watch out majorhopper, charlies in the wire! CHARLIES IN THE WIRE!!!
 
2005-01-13 06:18:58 PM  
Walmart is bad for our econonmy. It destroys its competition by using illegal hiring methods and government hand outs in the form of tax breaks. Once it has eliminated whatever local retailers that were in its operating space, it then proceeds to raise prices while keeping labor costs low (there are obviously less selections of jobs in an area that has had many of its stores closed). All the while still suckling on the teat of government tax breaks.

It's like this people: The government needs money to operate and for every dollar that Walmart evades paying (via tax loopholes, outright government welfare in the form of tax breaks or illegal methods like no payroll tax on undocumented workers) that is one dollar that needs to come from someone else. It's either going to come from a company that does play by the rules, or its going to come from the general public.

Corporations are not people. They do not care if you have a job. Public corporations are probably the worst in this regard, all they care about is making a profit and raising their stock price. I'm not saying this is wrong or right, obviously if you're the CEO of a company you have a duty to give a return to your investors (they did give you money after all didn't they?). However, people need to realize that there is no such thing as corporate benvolence. You have to use a big farking stick when you deal with these giant entities otherwise they will suck every last drop of profit they can out of anything they touch regardless of the consequences.

Hell for all I know some of you people may decide that you like this, but I'm pretty sure that alot of you are just too plain stupid to understand the ramifications of our current economic system. People are raised on a mantra of "CAPITALISM == GOOD" here in this country to the point where they are unable to objectively look at the situtation and discern where the actual draw backs are - and there are quite a few.

The way I look at it is like this: Capitalism is like Godzilla. It's great when it fights Mothra and drives him away from destroying Toyko, but it sucks when you realize that he stomped your car, your house and your girlfriend into paste doing it.

Our laws and regulations are like chains we have around the beast to keep it under control. Does it seriously never dawn on people that these chains were put there in the first place to keep the monster from going berzerk?
 
2005-01-13 06:19:05 PM  
I'd gladly pay an extra 16 cents for a pair of Hanes ladies sweatpants at Target or Kmart than shop at Wal-Mart. If you really compare prices, Walmart prices are only a small percentage cheaper than other discount stores. Anyway, the clothes at Walmart only come in one size - XXXL.
 
2005-01-13 06:19:14 PM  
Is this a flame war yet? The site name states it's a Democrat site, and the topic is against big business. Democrat/Republican Wars!
 
2005-01-13 06:19:44 PM  
The following place is less embarrassing than WalMart:



/thank you for your time
 
2005-01-13 06:20:17 PM  
Dr.Knockboots:
whats my choice?
spend 200bucks at Albertsons..$300 at the health food store..or $150 at Wal Mart ?


Yup. And I choose Albertson's. I'd rather pay a bit more and know that I'm not supporting WalMart.
 
2005-01-13 06:20:32 PM  
If you don't like Wal-Mart, stop shopping there.

The only small businesses that get destroyed by Wal-Mart are the ones without the creativity or drive to remain competitive. As a small businessowner you have the opportunity to provide levels of very personalized customer service that Wal-Mart can never achieve, as hard as they try. Sam Walton freely admitted this. In fact, the man himself outlined very specific and effective ways of competing with Wal-Mart in his biography.

You have to specialize and "hit 'em where they ain't," as they say. Whatever Wal-Mart doesn't do well, that's what you have to exceed at. Hardware stores, auto stores, pet stores, arts and crafts stores, are great examples of places that outdo Wal-Mart easily.

If you're running a small town grocery/general store, yes, you are probably screwed UNLESS you can find your niche. Do something creative. Compete, people.

Bottom line, the reason it looks like so many people are folding under the weight of Wal-Mart is because competition is coming to areas that have never seen competition before. These businessowners have never had to butt heads with anyone and it freaks them out. They can't handle it. They truly do not know how to handle common CAPITALISM and they fold instead of trying to be innovative and flexible.

I think Wal-Mart is a good thing. It separates the chaff from the wheat. The people who fold weren't good businesspeople in the first place. The ones who survive are the worthy ones.
 
2005-01-13 06:22:09 PM  
The same complains were flying about 15 years ago, only it was Toys-R-Us that was putting people out of business. Look at them now!

Retailing is a tough business, competition is a daily struggle, just ask anybody that sells/used to sell gasoline. If you can't keep up then you'll fail.

Someone please define "living wage." Is it $10/hr? $20/hr? Why not set it at $100/hr then nobody would be poor, right?
 
2005-01-13 06:22:28 PM  
Walmart spelled backward is tramlaW - Tram Law!!!

The acronym for TRAM is: Target Recognition & Attack Multisensor

We are all going to die!!
 
2005-01-13 06:22:47 PM  
I like to STEAL from walmart ^_^
 
2005-01-13 06:23:39 PM  
Glad to find a thread wherein I can finally agree with Weaver95.
 
2005-01-13 06:24:07 PM  
I once ran into some lady while shopping at Target for baby stuff. She gave me some "advice": the local Toys R Us was closing "because of Wal-Mart" and was having a clearance sale on baby items.

Mind you, she looked like the typical Wal-Mart clientele: three teeth, a mullet, body of a crack whore, and a brood in tow. I laughed and told her that she's the one that put Toys R Us out of business because she's shopping at Target for her baby's stuff, and that their high prices didn't really help them either.

Circular logic indeed.
 
2005-01-13 06:24:13 PM  
By the time 'Merka realizes the long-term effects on a local economy that a Wal-Mart type operation produces it will be too damn late.

We'll all be wearing nametags eventually...
 
2005-01-13 06:24:45 PM  
I like to drugDEAL at walmart *_*
 
2005-01-13 06:25:26 PM  
I like the Sams Club slogan; "We're in business for samll business". WTF!??!?

Wal-Mart epotomizes the downward spiral of the US economy. We all want inexpensive items, but we want to be paid alot. So, Wal-Mart gives us inexpensive, and in turn pays their peeps like shiat because they have to keep costs down. The same employees biatching are the exact same people that would buy cheap stuff even if they did have money.

Typical Americans; wants cake to eat it too.
 
2005-01-13 06:26:10 PM  

I think if we took away the give-away trade deals the Clinton Administration did with China in the 90's, WalMart would be nothing more than a poor cousin of Sears.

/but then, that's only my opinion.

 
2005-01-13 06:26:18 PM  
Wal-Mart is what capitalism is all about. It is the "best" in its field and continues to win because people choose to shop there. In 10, 20, 50, or 100 years another giant will do to Wal-Mart what Wal-Mart did to K-Mart. I think it's a good place to shop because the prices are good. Simple, really. Yes, its too bad that it destroys small businesses, but what, exactly, do you want to do about that? Set up laws so that people cannot freely chose where they want to shop? Free competition keeps prices down. Are all large store chains evil and to be avoided? Does overpaying at small, overpriced boutiques result in sainthood (besides, of course, the rush of being above the common ruck who shop at Wal-Mart?)

If you are a real socialist and hate capitalism, I respect that though I don't agree with it, obviously. I respect your hating Wal-Mart because at least that's consistent with your whole world-view. If you are not a socialist, be consistent and stop knocking free enterprise, willya!?!?!
Farkin' hypocrites. What's little, defenseless Wal-Mart done to you, anyway?
 
2005-01-13 06:26:54 PM  
yo cheddarpants!

as a former employee and graveyard shift worker for Kinko's, I can honestly say that the weirdos that go to wal-mart at 3:30 are the same farkin weirdos that show up in Kinko's at 3:30. And speaking of cults.... when Paul Orfela was running kinko's, it was very cultish... in a good way. Sam could have learned a few things about employee relations from Paul.
 
2005-01-13 06:26:54 PM  
Is there anything as glamorous as the crowd at a small town Wal Mart? I don't think so.


/all hail low prices
 
2005-01-13 06:27:48 PM  
3 copies of Time Cop for 17.99!
 
2005-01-13 06:28:10 PM  
Man, if Walmart could hire illegal aliens to work for them, their prices could be super-low!

I wonder how much I could buy goldfish from them then...
 
2005-01-13 06:28:18 PM  
Actually, in small towns where Walmart has killed all small businesses, people who need money don't really have a choice about not working there.

Sigh. The funny thing is Wall Street hates Costco because they insist on treating their employees right, even though they always make profit and meet projections. Kind of funny, where value systems lie, even in the face of profitable fact?

At any rate, hopefully people who live in cities where there are other options will start hearing the rumors goin' round, look into them, find a moral bearing, and stop shopping there. I've shopped at Walmart exactly once, because I worked at a summer camp, needed a damn working flashlight, and it was the only game in town. After that, I spent an extra thirty minutes to drive to a Meijer's when I needed emergency whatnot.
 
2005-01-13 06:28:43 PM  
Ooooohhh...I'd say this signals the beginning of the end for Wal-Mart. They just pushed the snowball off the peak...
 
2005-01-13 06:29:45 PM  
A Day Older than Yesterday:

The same complains were flying about 15 years ago, only it was Toys-R-Us that was putting people out of business. Look at them now!

Yes, it's true that TRU is the original "category-killer" but the only people that really got hurt were the mom-and-pop toy stores.

Wal-Mart has taken the "category-killer" concept and has applied it to ALL OF RETAILING.

Toys! Groceries! Tires! Clothes! Hardware! Etc. etc.

They just keep on adding to their stock. Soon, there will be NOTHING that Wal-Mart does not sell. Except "immoral" things, like records and books with swear words, and sex toys.

Hmmm...that gives me a business model idea...
 
2005-01-13 06:30:02 PM  
2005-01-13 12:15:13 PM CheddarPants
But when it's company policy to compensate your employees so poorly that they're forced to rely on public assistance, that's just not a good thing for society at large.

so you are mad at the US army too?
 
2005-01-13 06:30:53 PM  
Apologetic, our system works because the government has in the past stepped in to check ubridled capitalism. Pure capitalism is as dangerous as pure socialism.
 
2005-01-13 06:31:18 PM  
2005-01-13 06:26:18 PM Apologetic

Actually, the opposite. I would like to see the will of the people in cities where they don't want WalMart to be enforced.

Anyone remember the California city where Walmart spent 3x as much as the local activist groups to try to buy land for a supercenter? Walmart lost in a vote. Power to the people, but it did take an awful lot of free PR and citizen's own money to alert people that the benefits Walmart said they'd bring to the table almost always fail in other cities.

The next town that dares to take on the giant might not be so lucky.
 
2005-01-13 06:31:51 PM  
I met the love of my life in the McDonalds inside of WalMart. We named our kid McMarty shiatpants. He's been a good kid so far - stealin us our ammo from the big lady in the shoot'em up section. Though I think that my love is bonin' the tire putter-onner cuz she sends me to get her bra and all and she stays there in the tire section with Doug the tire putter onner and they drive somewhere and come back all red in the face. Whatever you do don't tell McMarty shiatpants.
 
2005-01-13 06:31:58 PM  
If people who hated WalMart would stop shopping there... maybe my line would be smaller.
 
2005-01-13 06:32:05 PM  
Yaaaaaaaaay it's the Fark and liberal cliche to rip on Walmart! "OMG Walmart is teh Evil! Walmart is the only company with products made in China OMG"

This is why the libs hate Walmart.


/worked at Sams Club for 3 years...happily
 
2005-01-13 06:32:13 PM  
The_Bob_Talbot:
I think Wal-Mart is a good thing. It separates the chaff from the wheat. The people who fold weren't good businesspeople in the first place. The ones who survive are the worthy ones.


That's what Hitler thought.

/Godwin invoked, but it had to be done
 
2005-01-13 06:32:31 PM  
The only small businesses that get destroyed by Wal-Mart are the ones without the creativity or drive to remain competitive.

You forgot "the immense cash buildup".

/Walmart is the perfect example of why America is farked.
 
2005-01-13 06:32:53 PM  
2005-01-13 06:25:26 PM farpointer

I like the Sams Club slogan; "We're in business for samll business". WTF!??!?


Well the whole theory behind that is "if you can't beat 'em, sell them stuff."

When Wal-Mart arrives in town, it WILL crush the unworthy competition. The folks who know how to run their businesses survive, however, and do very well. So then Wal-Mart slaps a Sam's Club in there and voila, they're making money off the surviving adept businesspeople.

wins both ways.
 
2005-01-13 06:33:21 PM  
A Day Older than Yesterday

"The same complains were flying about 15 years ago, only it was Toys-R-Us that was putting people out of business. Look at them now!"

I was thinking about the same thing. I bet 80 years ago they were saying that "Woolsworth is killing our economy". Woolsworth would move in to a town and take away from local businesses just the same. The difference is that Wal-Mart started putting up shop in small towns as well (something Woolsworth did not do). I really am divided about Wal-Mart. On the one hand I believe in a free market system and Wal-Mart does actually help low income people by selling cheap good on the other hand I know that they drive a lot of local businesses out. Interesting dilema.
 
2005-01-13 06:33:50 PM  
"For a two-hundred-employee Wal-Mart store, the government is spending $108,000 a year for children's health care; $125,000 a year in tax credits and deductions for low-income families; and $42,000 a year in housing assistance. The report estimates that a two-hundred-employee Wal-Mart store costs federal taxpayers $420,000 a year, or about $2,103 per Wal-Mart employee. That translates into a total annual welfare bill of $2.5 billion for Wal-Mart's 1.2 million US employees."

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17647
 
2005-01-13 06:34:04 PM  
By the way, it's not what Walmart has done to me. I don't shop there. F-ck 'em, for all I care. But I see them destroying small, northern Michigan towns that used to be amazingly pleasant. Or, better yet, ditching the place when there's no money to be had, leaving a huge empty stupid box in their wake and a town in shambles. I also, dare I say it, sort of care about American workers losing their jobs, as well as the southeast Asian kids being paid pennies to produce crap.

Don't know why. I really should work on quenching that annoying feeling of obligation to the well being of humanity and the environment. It's getting in the way of me earning money, damnit.
 
2005-01-13 06:34:16 PM  
Sam's Club sucks too. No, I don't want 50 lbs of Cheetos and 4 Sone-Hey!!!/Pana-sonique 20" televisions.
 
2005-01-13 06:34:21 PM  
If you think that Wal-Mart is bad try working at Best Buy. Bastards!

http://www.bestbuysux.org
 
2005-01-13 06:35:18 PM  
I dont think many of you "pro wal-marters" are seeing the point. We are not pissed that they have low prices, or even that they destroy small business. Its more that they use illegal practices to create the low prices and undercut the small businesses. Thats not capitalism, that farked up.
 
2005-01-13 06:35:27 PM  
SacriliciousBeerSwiller and greyspace, well said. I'm out, carry on the good fight.
 
2005-01-13 06:35:48 PM  
Yet the very goods and services that you radicals complain about ennable a Thai mother of 6 to put shoes on her kids feet and food in their bellies. And it ennables those people to have the luxury of developing a Green sensibility you treasure so much.


No one doubts that capitalism does not meaningfully address the human condition. But that's not what it's supposed to do.
 
2005-01-13 06:35:56 PM  
Apologetic:

Yes, its too bad that it destroys small businesses, but what, exactly, do you want to do about that? Set up laws so that people cannot freely chose where they want to shop?

No, I don't want to enact new laws. I want people to make an informed decision. Shopping at Wal-Mart may be cheap in the short-run, but very costly in the long-run.
 
2005-01-13 06:36:07 PM  
Hmm, didn't Wal-Mart start out as a mom-and-pop store?
 
2005-01-13 06:36:26 PM  
jtucker too.
 
2005-01-13 06:36:32 PM  
For weeks I have been seeing the "WalMart is a great place to work" BS on the television, and I have been thinking; Why does any company of their size have to run commercials spinning how great it is to wrok there? Is it because it really IS a great place to work?

/Don't think so
//Not one penny of my $$$ to WalMart - not one penny.
 
2005-01-13 06:38:38 PM  
SacriliciousBeerSwiller

What a cop out...That's what Hitler thought.

Is everything Hitler thought evil (and I'm not trying to stick up for the man)?

That was such a ridiculous argument.
 
2005-01-13 06:38:39 PM  
Ya know, the is one thing I like about Walmart: booze.

I visited a Walmart in Missouri last summer while visiting my grandfather who retired out in the sticks and the place had a goddamm wall of liquor. For cheap, of course. That was a great sight. Kinda left me at a loss for words due to the juxtaposition of "wholesomeness" that Walmart embraces.

I bought a pint just so I could tell my friends back home I bought whiskey at Walmart.

Thank you, Walmart(and the State of Missouri)!
 
2005-01-13 06:38:55 PM  
My real problem with 'em? They leave us no choice. Not only is that not capitalism, that anti-democracy.

Mebbe I'm wrong, technically, but I was led to believe that in a free society, everyone had innumerable choices.

/That and the fat, mullet-wearers. They stink of gingersnaps and motor oil.
 
2005-01-13 06:39:41 PM  
If Wal-Mart is "taking jobs from America" by using overseas labor, so be it. It's called stepping into the new world economy. It is about time America did it.

As for people in Thailand or Cambodia or Pakistan getting paid 8 cents an hour for making Wal-Mart merchandise --- that's 8 cents more than they would be getting without Wal-Mart. That 8 cents also goes quite a bit farther in their economies than it would in ours.
 
2005-01-13 06:40:36 PM  
Can I join in on the Wal-Mart bashing? It's one of my favorite past times! I'm sure this has been brought up, but one of the worst things about that place is the people who shop there. I had to stop going there because I didn't like being around the genetic abortions that I always saw while shopping. I made me really uncomfortable...I mean have you ever heard the term "stunk out loud"? There was this family of sweaty mogoloid, mouth-breathers, who smelled like B.O. so badly, it made my eyes water. I wish I was joking, but it's true...
 
2005-01-13 06:40:38 PM  
Xed Ping

Yeah, but it was "good" then. I swear these people have no idea what principle they are pretending to stand on.
 
2005-01-13 06:40:52 PM  
No one doubts that capitalism does not meaningfully address the human condition. But that's not what it's supposed to do.

Uhhh, wow, that's incredibly depressing. Thanks.

/Proud? American
 
2005-01-13 06:42:18 PM  
Wal-Mart does indeed have low prices. But shopping at that filth ridden place is like jumping into a cesspool. I don't shop Wal-Mart simply because every last one Ive been to in So-cal is largely full of bloated, smelling, slow moving water buffalo's of the human race. Dragging throngs of crying or screaming children around while they insist on opening items like there is some magical farking crackerjack prize inside or if the intended product looks any different only to toss it aside in the wrong place or drop it in the isle adding to the filth of the place.

And then the customer service or lack there of is also abhorrent. I don't smile on some weird ass beleaguered looking old person saying hi to me with fetid breath or reeking of depends when I walk in, or enjoy having some 16 year old who can't put his pants on right bumbling and knowing jack shat about anything in the store.

/Shops Target instead, at least its cleaner
 
2005-01-13 06:42:26 PM  
Frankly, some of the people who work there seem to be so dumb that they would be unemployed welfare leeches if not for Wal-Mart.

Instead, Walmart hires them and gives them memos telling them how to become employed welfare leeches, since they won't give them REAL health benefits...

Someone please define "living wage."

Okay. "A wage sufficient for a worker and family to subsist comfortably". The exact dollar figure will of course vary depending on the local cost of living.
 
2005-01-13 06:42:37 PM  
I've worked at my share of retailers. None of them ranked very high on business practices, morals, or ethics. In all honesty, Target was the worst out of all of them. But because they aren't the #1 retailer, nobody bothers.

//Not one penny of my $$$ to WalMart - not one penny.

You keep thinking that.
 
2005-01-13 06:42:43 PM  
I've been in WalMart once, I didnt buy anything I just walked around for a bit and got the heck outta there.
I kinda felt dirty just being in that shiat hole.
Think about how much they are worth and then think that they employ slave labor over seas and treat their employees here like shiat.
I'm not contributing to that.
F-Wall mart.
 
2005-01-13 06:43:00 PM  
As for people in Thailand or Cambodia or Pakistan getting paid 8 cents an hour for making Wal-Mart merchandise --- that's 8 cents more than they would be getting without Wal-Mart.

Not to get off-subject, but when was the last time you tried surviving on 8 cents an hour? Wait, better yet: Minimum wage?

Did minimum wage 2 years ago meself, got into $16,000 worth of credit card debt.

/Gawd bless Walmart
//above is sarcasm
 
2005-01-13 06:43:08 PM  
A Day Older than Yesterday: Why not set it at $100/hr then nobody would be poor, right?

Without going into a lot of detail about that, let's just say that is an idea that will solve nothing. Raising the wages of everyone solves nothing, but instead merely raises the cost of all other items in relation to the new wage standard.

/Hates Walmart for multiple reasons
 
2005-01-13 06:43:26 PM  
McDork

Where do you live and what choices have been eliminated by Wal-Mart? You better think about your answer because I'm going to look in your Yellow Pages. Its time we broke down each and every one of you Wal-Mart haters' arguments.
 
2005-01-13 06:43:42 PM  
The_Bob_Talbot

Bullshiat. Wal-Mart is the definition of anti-competitive. If they single you out for destruction, you are finished. They'll buy up your suppliers and sell at a loss indefinitely in order to put you down. That's nothing but predatory and ultimately leaves the consumer with less choice.
 
2005-01-13 06:44:46 PM  
Lifted from commondreams.org

If you fight for civil liberties, you're pro-criminal.

If you fight for justice in U.S. foreign policies, you're anti-American.

If you think people should have a right to determine their life partners and give them health benefits, you're pro-queer.

If you question the justice of a war based on false intelligence, you don't support the troops.

If you think the U.S. government should not be spying on its own citizens, you're pro-terrorist.

If you think the United States should not be torturing those it holds captive, you're coddling murderers.

If you think people should not be held indefinitely without trial or lawyers, you support terrorism.

If you think society should help the poor, you're soft on the shiftless.

If you want equal education for all, you're pro-black at the expense of whites.

If you want health care for all, you're a socialist.

If you think everyone has a right to a fair trial, you're soft on crime.

If you hope for a fairer tax system, you're for higher taxes.

If you want a government that helps people, you're for big government.
 
2005-01-13 06:44:51 PM  
Weaver95 was all:

Actually, it's not. It's closer to a caricature of a capitalist success story - it's almost if a bunch of college maoists/commies got together and dreamed up everything wrong about corporate america from their perspective. Then built it and set it loose on the world.

That's what wal-mart is like.


And then I was like:

 
2005-01-13 06:45:49 PM  
Weird, it got snipped or something... (or does Fark have a hidden Walmart fan?)

The CEO's message doesn't even talk about the big news from 2004:

http://www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/2004/walmart%20study.html

"We estimate that Wal-Mart workers in California earn on average 31 percent less than workers employed in large retail as a whole, receiving an average wage of $9.70 per hour compared to the $14.01 average hourly earnings for employees in large retail (firms with 1,000 or more employees). In addition, 23 percent fewer Wal-Mart workers are covered by employer-sponsored health insurance than large retail workers as a whole. The differences are even greater when Wal-Mart workers are compared to unionized grocery workers. In the San Francisco Bay Area, non-managerial Wal-Mart employees earn on average $9.40 an hour, compared to $15.31 for unionized grocery workers39 percent lessand are half as likely to have health benefits.

At these low-wages, many Wal-Mart workers rely on public safety net programs such as food stamps, Medicare, and subsidized housingto make ends meet. The presence of Wal-Mart stores in California thus creates a hidden cost to the states taxpayers."
 
2005-01-13 06:46:13 PM  
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't something like 70 cents of every dollar spent in the US goes into the back pocket of Wal-Mart.

Capitalism and free markets are generally a good thing but when you get a company bloating to the size and sheer power of this one, it becomes a money hoover, draining cash from a local economy into a private bank (often off-shore, so no taxes to pay).

Why are they hated? Because they are too big, they seem to buy most of ther stock from outside of their host country (from what I've seen). Put simply they are a finanical parasite.

Now people love having cheaper goods, but if the long-term cost of those cheaper goods is the elimination of vast sections of jobs then is this worth it?

America is hit harder with the Wal-Mart affect as it has more stores there, and they kill off more local competition, but a lot of Americans seem to love 'em.
 
2005-01-13 06:46:44 PM  
Who cares about Wal*Mart...the Big Box is the real threat to America and the world!
 
2005-01-13 06:47:26 PM  
poot_rootbeer

Can you please define the word "is"? And then tell me wtf the difference is between the living wage times 2000 hrs and the cost of living? Don't put terms that are essentially equivalent to each other in a definition. Its confusing...oh that's what you were going for...I get it. bwahahahaha
 
2005-01-13 06:47:52 PM  
BransBadgers:

Where do you live and what choices have been eliminated by Wal-Mart? You better think about your answer because I'm going to look in your Yellow Pages. Its time we broke down each and every one of you Wal-Mart haters' arguments.

Go for it. Start with mine. I'm ready!
 
2005-01-13 06:49:35 PM  
BransBadgers Where do you live and what choices have been eliminated by Wal-Mart? You better think about your answer because I'm going to look in your Yellow Pages. Its time we broke down each and every one of you Wal-Mart haters' arguments.

Hm. Well, years ago, when I lived just outside the city of LA, I was working in a privately owned bookstore. The owner of 35 years and I were the only employees of said shop. Lo and behold, delightful Sam and his buddies moved in not but 2 miles away. Suddenly, every small business around us began to wither and die off. My hours were cut. Eventually, I was let go (luckily, due to my own moxy, I moved to L.A. and procured a better paying job than Sam or my old boss could ever afford to pay). He was eventually shut down because the small LA 'burb was over-taken by Walmart, and many small, privately owned businesses closed their doors as well.

Last I hear, my old boss had moved to Baltimore and works at a Barnes and Noble (irony?)

How was that story?
 
2005-01-13 06:49:58 PM  
i hate walmart. unfortunately as of right now, there are some things i can't get anywhere else.

i can't wait until they finish building Target here. Much better quality.
 
2005-01-13 06:50:53 PM  
Its time we broke down each and every one of you Wal-Mart haters' arguments.

Can't break mine because they're cold hard facts. It's filthy, the clientel are yokels, and they have a practice of puritanical censorhip in their products.
 
2005-01-13 06:51:10 PM  
Capitalism says don't educate the public....then they'll figure out they are being screwed.

Democracy says educate the public so that government really does work.

Bush says "Capitalism are our friends."
 
2005-01-13 06:52:24 PM  
jtucker

Its more that they use illegal practices to create the low prices and undercut the small businesses.

What are the illegal practices? I know they source as much as possible from Asia and pay competitive wages in those markets for labor (cheep compared to American labor costs). Is that what you are calling illegal? Am I missinng something?
 
2005-01-13 06:52:32 PM  
As a former Wal-Mart employee, I've got a little bit of insider knowledge here...

About 10 years ago, I worked for the Big W for about a year and a half. I had just been pink-slipped from my teaching job, recently married, and was trying to go back into grad school. I did some substitute teaching while working at W-M, just to help make ends meet.

Like all the other shmoes, I started out earning minimum wage, with absolutely no benefits. Getting enough hours a week to make the paycheck worth anything was a hassle -- you sure didn't want to piss off the ass't manager who made the schedules. Between Thanksgiving and Christmas I usually worked nearly 40 hours a week; after Jan 1, I would be lucky to get 8 hours a week 'til March. Otherwise, I would put in anywhere from 20-28 hrs/week.

I worked a year in the Electronics Department having to put up with inbred rednecks coming in the first of every month with their screaming half-dressed kids and their government check, asking, "Do y'all have that movie with that guy from tha TV in it? You know tha one Uh mean -- tha show with tha kids and tha wife?" My favorite was when these dumbasses would ask if we had on VHS a movie that had just debuted in the theaters. If I had a dime for every time I wanted to scream, "Are you that farkin' stupid?!? How do you even dress yourself?!?" I'd have my retirement fund paid for.

After I'd been there a year, I requested and got transferred to the 3rd shift stocking crew. It was the only way I could get a steady 40-hr week and the promise of any benefits. 'Course, I had to be on this schedule for 3 months before I could get any benefits, even though I'd already put in a year.

I worked my ass off for the next few months, unloading semi trailers and carting boxes of crap around the store. It was the best time I ever had working there -- no customers and only other twisted folks like myself working late into the morning. Our night managers were extremely careful not to give us any overtime though, and several times after putting in 12 hours each of my first three days, I'd go in on the fourth and only work 'til 2am. We got our asses chewed if we went even a minute over 40 hours.

After about 5-6 months of this, I got another teaching job and left Wal-Mart behind for good.

Thank God.

Some things I learned:
== Wal-Mart will sell many items at a loss just to get your butt in the store so they can anally rape you with mark-ups on other items.
== Most Wal-Mart employees, while nice, are about as brilliant as a 4 watt nightlight and about as interesting conversationalists as a guernsey.
== They love to employ high school kids who don't know any better or who can't get a better job; I've currently got about 4 of my students working at our local supercenter and more than a dozen former students who have made it their 'career'.
== Wal-Mart fears theft from their employees much more than from their customers. Most of the black 'camera balls' in the ceilings are empty and only there for show; the ones watching the cash registers and service desk, however, are fully operational and on all the time.
== You've not lived 'til you've tried to bring down a 27'' TV set from a 12-foot riser on a rickety ladder with no help.
== They would put "Made in America" signs on racks of clothes that were actually made by overseas child labor and were clearly marked as being made abroad.
== Our store manager would get a bonus of nearly 6 figures if we were the top-selling store in our region. No wonder he was such a dick.

All in all, I think everyone should have to put in a few months in the blue vest, just to see what it's like. Then run away... far away.

Where I live now, I've got to go 15 miles to reach a K-Mart (and a lousy one, at that) and over 30 miles to find a Target or Meijer. In that same 30 mile radius, there are 7 Wal-Mart supercenters. I won't buy any of my clothes at the Wally World, but it's the only place we shop for household items and the like. Hell, it's the only local place we CAN shop for that stuff.

We may not like 'em, but we helped create 'em. Dammit.

/I even appeared in a regional commercial for the bastards.
 
2005-01-13 06:52:58 PM  
2005-01-13 06:43:08 PM Iwearsocksforu

A Day Older than Yesterday: Why not set it at $100/hr then nobody would be poor, right?

Without going into a lot of detail about that, let's just say that is an idea that will solve nothing. Raising the wages of everyone solves nothing, but instead merely raises the cost of all other items in relation to the new wage standard.


Exactaly my point - there will always be jobs that pay below average and workers that earn below average. so the complaints about poor wages at Wally-World are basically from those that haven't thought it all the way through.

You earn the prize for having a basic understanding of economics.
 
2005-01-13 06:53:06 PM  
Hm. Well, years ago, when I lived just outside the city of LA, I was working in a privately owned bookstore.

Was there are Borders or Barnes and Noble around there? I can't see how a store that sells guns and tampons would put a bookstore out of business.

Amazon.com might have also contributed to the closing.

Just sayin'.
 
2005-01-13 06:55:08 PM  
McDork

Are you trying to tell me you can't buy a book in the city of LA anywhere other than at a Wal-Mart? I want to know what choices have been eliminated? I don't care that you can't go to one book store that closed down. I'm sure there are still a "few" left in LA.
 
2005-01-13 06:55:19 PM  
The free market would be briliant if people weren't selfish gits and all the alternatives are facistastic.

The only way to balance this equation is with copious amounts of the devil weed.
 
2005-01-13 06:56:12 PM  
Y'know, capitalism is an ugly beast. Places get driven out of business, people toss their morals out the window for the benefit of their portfolio...you get the idea.

But, as Winston Churchill (I think) said: Capitalism is the worst idea in the world. Until you consider every other idea.

Life sucks, get over it.

That said, I don't think it's too damned much to ask to have some kind of standards. Wal Mart plays dirty, VERY dirty. Yes, they're still within the letter of the law, but they're pissing all over the spirit.

One of the great things about living in a free country is that the people can fight their own fights, and (in theory) when the capitalist beast gets too out of control, they can humble it appropriately.

Problem is, you have people like our friend kingwank here, who have bought into such an abstracted idea of the capitalist ideal that when society tries to do what society does, they fight it. Yes, they're exercising their societal right as well, but that's not the point. The point is that the economy is there to serve society, not the other way around. By holding success higher than simple common decency, you've completely subverted the whole point we developed an economy in the first place.

This isn't some game. The model is brutal, yes, and you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. But if it becomes dysfunctional, it becomes dysfunctional, and you have to do something to fix it. Wal Mart is openly abusing the system, and regularly breaking the law, getting away with in (in part) because the pure capitalists have gotten so much sand in their vaginas that they won't accept any criticism, no matter how obviously important. Reality has to intercede somewhere, guys.
 
2005-01-13 06:56:35 PM  
No options besides Walmart?

Kmart
Target
Kohl's
Shopko
Woodman's
Best Buy
Circuit City
SuperValu
Radio Shack
Sears
Staples
Office Max
Bed Bath & Beyond
Piggly Wiggly

This is a short list off the top of my head ..... plus these are only places from the Midwest. There are countless others I've probably never heard of. So why is there "no choice"?

Walmart's killing the competition? Well, shop somewhere else and help a different business out .... give someone else your money.

Walmart's buying foreign-made products? So are ALL of the other retailers .... it's modern business. Buy from where you can get it ... as cheaply as possible.

It's just easier to pick on the one that's doing well .... if Kmart has a sudden, miraculous recovery ... and started making tons 'o money, surpassing Walmart, then they'd become the target of the griping.

All the issues regarding child labor laws, where products are bought, how they're sold, who can't compete with the competition, ..... all these issues are faced by all the big stores.

Besides, Walmart started out as a small business. Ran by a smart man who knew what people wanted and figured out to buy in bulk in order to sell for less. They pay, on average, more per hour than most stores in their geographical selling area ..... and has profit-sharing and stock options open to EVERY employee .... some places don't allow their employees the chance to be a part of the company.


/Continues to shop at Walmart to spend less
//Also loves Best Buy (oohh, electronics!)
 
2005-01-13 06:57:13 PM  
Mugato

Don't shop there. Its not illegal to shop elsewhere. Sorry, I broke it. Next!!!
 
2005-01-13 07:00:18 PM  
tukatz

Am I feeling a little Badger love? If you know what I mean.
 
2005-01-13 07:01:02 PM  
Hang On Voltaire:

"The same complains were flying about 15 years ago, only it was Toys-R-Us that was putting people out of business. Look at them now!"

I was thinking about the same thing. I bet 80 years ago they were saying that "Woolsworth is killing our economy". Woolsworth would move in to a town and take away from local businesses just the same. The difference is that Wal-Mart started putting up shop in small towns as well (something Woolsworth did not do). I really am divided about Wal-Mart. On the one hand I believe in a free market system and Wal-Mart does actually help low income people by selling cheap good on the other hand I know that they drive a lot of local businesses out. Interesting dilema.



Watch what happens to wal-mart when they are no longer able to produce earnings "growth" by opening new stores everywhere. Wall street won't love them as much any more. The cycle of record growth rates can't continue forever.
 
2005-01-13 07:02:20 PM  
tukatz:

Besides, Walmart started out as a small business. Ran by a smart man who knew what people wanted and figured out to buy in bulk in order to sell for less.

Yes, but Sam Walton was a big believer in American made products. Since he died, this is no longer the case. What percentage of items in Wal-Mart is made overseas, would you guess? 75% More? Getting more all the time?

The ironic thing is that Sam Walton's biography is called, "Made in America."
 
2005-01-13 07:03:06 PM  
http://www.mentallyincontinent.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=120

Tis Beautiful.
 
2005-01-13 07:03:08 PM  
Also, I don't shop at wal-mart because what they sell is mostly garbage. Talk about price all you want, but crap is crap.

/the cheap man pays twice
 
2005-01-13 07:03:54 PM  
Don't shop there. Its not illegal to shop elsewhere. Sorry, I broke it. Next!!!

Gee, that was skillful. Copy and paste that for every argument.
 
2005-01-13 07:04:48 PM  
What percentage of items in Wal-Mart is made overseas, would you guess? 75% More? Getting more all the time?

As opposed to all those American-made products on the shelves at Target...?
 
2005-01-13 07:05:01 PM  
LopezEG

I don't get it. What's going to happen? Will all of Wal-Mart's stores implode? Earnings growth not going on forever? Wall St. has never seen that scenario before from a giant company (sarcastic). WTF are you talking about?
 
2005-01-13 07:07:33 PM  
Are you trying to tell me you can't buy a book in the city of LA anywhere other than at a Wal-Mart? I want to know what choices have been eliminated? I don't care that you can't go to one book store that closed down. I'm sure there are still a "few" left in LA.

ohhhh...wow....have you been to Los angeles?

I'm busy, so I'll give you a larger explaination later. If you really want an emotionally charged unload.
 
2005-01-13 07:07:56 PM  
How can you "exploit" someone that has voluntarily taken the job and can quit at any time? I've never been fond of Walmart or Kmart because they tend to clobber small retail business ownership but exploit doesn't make much sense.
 
2005-01-13 07:08:26 PM  
I worked at a Wal-Mart in college, so I know of what I speak. (For the record, I worked in sporting goods. We got to sell the guns. :D )

1) For retail work, Wal-Mart offers very good wages. (I worked at other retail stores, and Wal-Mart offered $2 more an hour.) And remember... it IS retail work, which is the lowest paying sector of the economy anyway. I wouldn't want to try to live, much less raise a family, on a single Wal-Mart associate's paycheck. But if you are, that isn't Wal-Mart's problem. (BTW, for retail stores, Wal-Mart health benefits are still about as good as it gets in the sector.)

2) You want to be a Wal-Mart Manager and get the big money? Easy. Just start as an associate, show up on time, work for 1.5 - 2 years, and wait for the 60-70% yearly attrition among associates to work its magic. Before long, you will be one of the most senior employees at the store, and first in line for a management job. (Wal-Mart is fanatical about promoting from the inside. Every single manager at the store I worked at, from our district manager right down to the shift managers, started at Wal-Mart as an associate.)

But, if Wal-Mart has an Achilles heel, it's these two things.

1) They have squeezed every last dime they can out of their suppliers to get cheap goods, even to the point of demanding such low prices that some companies have gone bankrupt. Sooner or later, they're going to either figure that out and quit trying to get blood out of a turnip, or no one is going to sell products to them.

2) The quality of their merchandise is really suffering. You pay for what you get, but when I worked there I could see that much of what we sold was crap. I shop at Target now, the prices are a little higher, but the quality is much better. (When a Wal-Mart-made combination lock literally fell apart in my hands, I knew something was up.)

The market will take care of both of these in due time. Adapt or die, and all that jazz...

/still remembers how to use the Wal-Mart phone network to make free long-distance calls
//doesn't
///no way in hell I'm telling you how.
 
2005-01-13 07:10:06 PM  
Has anybody mentioned Wal-Mart's complete and utter contempt for private property rights? If you own your own home and Wal-Mart comes to town and decides that they want to build a new store on top of your home, it really doesn't matter if you want to sell to them or not. Because if you don't, they'll just go to your local government, show them a viewgraph of all of the projected sales tax revenue, give them a wink and a handshake, and get them to use power of eminent domain to condemn your property. Wal-Mart and its developers are certainly not the only ones guilty of engaging in this practice, but they are by far the worst offender. These people actually believe that your right to own your own home and private property is trumped by their right to erect a "megastore" and sell cheap Chinese goods.

The irony is that while Wal-Mart claims to be the epitome of the American Way and the American Dream, at the heart of it all they are anything but. The entire corporation is built upon a foundation of unshakeable hatred for the very people that pump cash into it, and they're laughing all the way to the bank. I guess I can't blame them; if I were in their position, I would probably be laughing, too. As far as I'm concerned, shop where you want. I choose not to shop at Wal-Mart, not because I consider myself "too good" to shop there, but because I believe in America and support the principles that this nation was founded upon.

You'd better believe that the good folks at Wal-Mart do not, despite all of the red-white-and-blue commercials peppered with uplifting music and smiling American faces.
 
2005-01-13 07:10:12 PM  
Since no one in my family is Blue Collar trash I don't care. Exploit them it's not like it's hard to find morons to work at WalMart. Slave them till my prices drop.
 
2005-01-13 07:11:34 PM  
Mugato

How about thinking for a moment who is shopping there and where they would shop (at higher prices) without Wal-Mart? You guys with a few extra bucks in your pockets who want to shop elsewhere should do just that. There are people who were never able to buy everything they needed and can now thanks to Wal-Mart. Maybe it is filthy, but it provides for poor families, and its not "filthy" in the sense that it does not provide the community with porn or vile language in music and videos. Sam Walton wanted a family oriented store and he's certainly free to "clean up" his products. He's not burning books or forcefully taking away media you would like to have, which is actually censorship. Is that better? Next!!!
 
2005-01-13 07:13:17 PM  
Major Thomb
Think third world countries.
 
2005-01-13 07:14:05 PM  
McDork

Spare me the emotion. Give me the facts. I'm not looking for a pissing match. It was a simple question...by the way, I have been to LA, and know that I can in fact buy books at stores other than Wal-Mart. I only wanted you to name a choice that was eliminated by Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 07:14:37 PM  
I was curious.

Los Angeles bookstores:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4824/na-la.htm
 
2005-01-13 07:15:29 PM  

There are people who were never able to buy everything they needed and can now thanks to Wal-Mart.


and thanks to Wal-Mart we have many many more americans wo are too poor to buy everything.


how magical. It provides for poor families, while simultaneously being the largest creator of poor families.
 
2005-01-13 07:15:39 PM  
vishuslee, I second your Kinko's comment. Sadly these days it's under the huge FedEx umbrella and there is very little "Kinko's culture" left.

I did my time on the second shift dealing with kicking scary homeless people out who'd been sleeping in Computer Rental for an hour and a half so we could close the damn branch. One guy smeared his own shiat all over our bathroom one afternoon.
 
2005-01-13 07:16:07 PM  
One of the reasons I don't shop at Walmart because of the creepy old greeter guys at the front of each store. I feel sorry for them for some reason. Also the fact that I wouldn't be able to buy Jon Stewart's book or uncensored music there bugs me.

However I think the main reason I don't shop at Walmart is because of the people you encounter there. Long lines, picked through ragged merchandise, inept staff, howling snotty nosed kids, etc. Dealing with that headache isn't worth saving $1.29 on a space heater or $.19 on a greeting card. I'll go to the mall instead and select my items from a specialty store.
 
2005-01-13 07:16:55 PM  
BransBadgers:

I don't get it. What's going to happen? Will all of Wal-Mart's stores implode? Earnings growth not going on forever? Wall St. has never seen that scenario before from a giant company (sarcastic). WTF are you talking about?

meh. this already happened in the '90s and they managed to quintuple their stock price since then. I guess we're all just farked.
I suppose their venture into foreign markets could be their downfall. Look at the ROI on the stores in Mexico and Brazil, for example.
 
2005-01-13 07:18:08 PM  
decker12

it's not bad if you shop in the middle of the day or late at night.
 
2005-01-13 07:20:03 PM  
dbaggins

Have you any idea the difference in scale between the number of people working at Wal-Mart and the number of people shopping there? The number of people who benefit from Wal-Mart's low prices far outweighs the number of people it provides with low wage jobs. Net effect = resounding good.
 
2005-01-13 07:20:29 PM  
 
2005-01-13 07:22:15 PM  
LopexEG:

I suppose their venture into foreign markets could be their downfall. Look at the ROI on the stores in Mexico and Brazil, for example.

They could also get farked by a major interruption of goods from China or a spike in costs from Asia. What if the Chinese start demanding a higher standard of living? Even worse, what happens when avian flu jumps to people again or SARS wipes out a region?
 
2005-01-13 07:22:47 PM  
LopezEG

ROI on Wal-Mart stores outside of the US...I'm sorry I don't have those numbers in front of me. Do you? Also, I know that Wal-Mart has had less freely competitive climates in other countries which would explain to me their lower ROI, if that is in fact the case.
 
2005-01-13 07:24:53 PM  
sid007

You win, buddy. Checkmate. Game over. Insert another quarter. That is farking awesome.

Now beware of the onslaught. Farkers will make you pay for being sacriligious.
 
2005-01-13 07:26:41 PM  
John BigBootay sez: Also, I don't shop at wal-mart because what they sell is mostly garbage. Talk about price all you want, but crap is crap.

Amen to that. If Wal-Mart is all you can afford, or if it's the only game in town, then there's nothing for it, I suppose. But if you can afford to shop somewhere with better quality merchandise, do it.

Buy something that will last.

/has to laugh at people who think "cheap price" means "thrifty"
 
2005-01-13 07:27:58 PM  
Wal-Mart gave $2 million to tsunami relief. That is really great until you consider they gave $10 million to buy the naming rights to the business school at the University of Arkansas.

Someday a genius stock analyst is going to figure out that the Wal-Mart profit on things it sells is roughly 3% and in no way justifies the stock price. The only thing keeping Wal-Mart growing is putting new stores up. Here there is a Wal-Mart every 5 miles.

It's interesting that Wal-Mart brags about the number of employees but doesn't mention the pay they receive. I have checked every Wal-Mart website, annual reports, and everywhere else I could possibly look. I cannot find 1 mention of how much Wal-Mart spends on employee compensation. In their own reports, compensation is lumped in with other expenses and hidden.
 
2005-01-13 07:27:59 PM  
WalMart recently bought Seiyu. I guess I won't shop at Seiyu anymore either, particularly if they start selling the same cheap shiat they sell at WalMarts in the US.

Not sure what else they own overseas though.
 
2005-01-13 07:29:00 PM  
So I was really doing a public service by stealing all that stuff from walmart back in high school?

Anyway, I think walmart provides a valuable public service...two, actually. It shows people that unchecked capitalism is not a good thing, and it keeps the rednecks away from those of us who are willing to pay more to buy from good retailers.
 
2005-01-13 07:30:31 PM  
404
 
2005-01-13 07:30:40 PM  
I hate Walmart. When I want a huge impersonal store, I go to Costco. Besides, Costco doesn't treat their employees like slave labor. And if that weren't enough, the head of Costco is no friend of Dubya and his cronies.
 
2005-01-13 07:31:19 PM  
jkmartin

Would you mind proving to me that you are for real and actually researched this stuff. Find for me in any of Target's publications what they pay their employees. Especially in a balance sheet or a 10-Q.
 
2005-01-13 07:32:20 PM  
Weaver95 [TotalFark]:

you know, rather than funding a PR blitz, wouldn't it have been better to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us?

Who's "us," and what rules are we playing by?
 
2005-01-13 07:32:34 PM  
I for one welcome our blue vested overlords!!!

No one forces people to work there.
No one forces vendors to supply them.
No one forces the low price loving public to spend 230+ Billion there.

Long live wal-mart Long live corporate greed.

Sam would be proud
 
2005-01-13 07:32:47 PM  
Weaver95:

you know, rather than funding a PR blitz, wouldn't it have been better to have just cleaned up all their labor violations and start playing by the rules like the rest of us?

It's statements like that, along with the fact that you're a gamer, that makes me actually have respect for you despite our typically divergent opinions.
 
2005-01-13 07:34:26 PM  
By the way, profit margin has nothing to do with stock valuation. Revenue growth and profit growth are much bigger factors in stock price.

/does not wonder why this man is not a stock analyst
 
2005-01-13 07:35:58 PM  
I hate Walmart, because I'm a stupid jingoist who doesn't care how many Chinese peasants it gives jobs too, I just like to biatch and moan about how it destroys "mom 'n pop" businesses which sell overpriced merchandise.
 
2005-01-13 07:36:30 PM  
The problems with Wal-Mart are:
-Ugly boxes and parking lots
-Total disdain for employees
-Coercion of suppliers
-Removal of ~3% of a given local economy's cash flow annually (profits sent away)
-Use of foreign sweatshop labor.
 
2005-01-13 07:36:51 PM  
For years now Business Week and the like have been pointing out the problem of the retail glut we have in the US. Bottom line is, there is just too much shiat out there for sale, even if everyone buys as much as they want, there is just too much out there.

So some company is gonna left holding the bag, so to speak, of all the unsold crap. No company wants it to be them, so it means we have a giant market share war.

How you win a market share war under the current rules is, you fight on price. To fight on price, you ramp up production to lower the cost per widget construction, and you make bigger and bigger stores, to lower your distribution costs.

Surely you see the problem here - while this plays well in the short term (i.e., it looks great to the suits on Wall Street) it only worsens the underlying problem in the long term, because even MORE crap is being made and put on even MORE shelves.

Then, in an attempt to put your competitors out of business, you build a store directly across from every store they have. Wall Street doesn't just want profits, it wants GROWTH in profits, so you open up stores in places you never would go before - that's why Wal Mart is trying to open stores in urban areas lately.

One of each type of chain will win the market share war. When that happens, all the extra stores will dry up and blow away - only they'll leave their weedy cinder block hulks behind, of course. WalMart and its ilk are okay with running not-so-profitable stores, or even losing money on individual stores, as a cost in winning the market share war. Once they win, that's it, no reason to waste all that money.

At which point, maybe the Mom and Pops will get back in the biz. But in the meantime, how much resources have we converted into cheap disposable shiat that no one buys and essentially gets trucked directly into the landfill?

It's not just WalMart, it's the entire system. WalMart leads because they are so big that they dictate to their suppliers, and accelerate the process.

But hey, can't be criticizing that capitalistic system, no. Pure ideology must trump all.

/powerful engines sometimes need powerful containers
 
2005-01-13 07:38:40 PM  
I don't see that they've caused significant harm to local neighborhoods, despite what projections show or people claim. I went to the local one once to buy household supplies (I'd just moved and was too lazy to find a real store). It was one of the most disturbing shopping experiences of my life. Employees wandering around muttering, the aisles were 2 feet across and NO one shopping there seemed less than 3 feet wide, merchandise was all over like the decor theme was "Early Looting".

Cheap as hell. YES! Do they close small businesses. Maybe initially, but anymore, the people that would keep those shops open anyway are going to keep them open.

I avoid any large corporate chain, walmart, target, applebee's, dominos.... any of them are designed to eliminate competition, NOT by a better product but simply by a cheaper product. Cheap is not better, cheap is cheap.

It's not going to change the world, I don't get warm fuzzy feelings inside. BUT... I do eat decent food when i go out, have an idea of where my food comes from, and know that the products I buy will last.
 
2005-01-13 07:39:49 PM  
2005-01-13 07:34:26 PM BransBadgers

By the way, profit margin has nothing to do with stock valuation. Revenue growth and profit growth are much bigger factors in stock price.


You are absolutely right. Did you happen to work at Enron or are you currently employed at Krispy Kreme?
 
2005-01-13 07:39:49 PM  
BransBadgers Spare me the emotion. Give me the facts. I'm not looking for a pissing match. It was a simple question...by the way, I have been to LA, and know that I can in fact buy books at stores other than Wal-Mart. I only wanted you to name a choice that was eliminated by Wal-Mart.

Not looking to piss against you. That sounds weird...

Anaheim is the location of the aforementioned Walmart. Yes, you can buy books in many locations in Los Angeles. My point is: People came to this bookshop because of the personal service, the ready availability to find what they want, the warm atmosphere...the heart. It sounds as though you don't give much of a flying fark about this, so my argument is lost. But with it, so is the American dream, friend. No longer can a simple, average Joe open a privately owned shop in an American city without the fear that they'll be swept away by a grinding machine, including, but not exclusive to, Walmart.

And no matter what your arguments are, that is sad.
 
2005-01-13 07:41:14 PM  
And while we're speaking of wages overseas - it's true that you cannot assume that "made overseas" = sweatshop.

Because we have different economies (right now, they're merging) there is legitimate wage arbitration out there. Living wage in another country is often less than living wage in the US.

That said, however, there are plenty of companies who are so cheap and tight-assed that they refuse to pay even the piddly amount that is a living wage in those low-wage countries, lock the employees in, and all manner of other reprehensible practices. They could make plenty of money at 87 cents and hour, but no, they wanna pay only 7.

Why? 'Cuz some other company is paying 7, and remember, there's a market share war on. Gotta undercut them.

/and round and round it goes
 
2005-01-13 07:41:31 PM  
You cannot call the Wal-Martin phenomenon a result of Capitalism. In fact, it is just the opposite. Wal-Mart became the player it is by being the first to get into bed with the Chicoms. The Chicoms subsidize much of the cheap worthless crap pumped out of their factories. This is good for Wal-Mart in the short term, but bad in the longterm.

Someday their customers are going to realize that Wal-Mart has been selling them a shoddy product. They might also realize that they funded the full-fledged industrialization and modern militarization of the last remaining Communist Superpower.
 
2005-01-13 07:41:44 PM  
wait.... when did Anaheim become part of Los Angeles?!
(that's more frightening than Walmart)
 
2005-01-13 07:42:29 PM  
Do expect us to go,
"Oooooh, you sure showed us liberal pansies who care about people earning a living wage and the homogenization of every aspect of American life. Stop it with your hard light of truth. You're too scary for us Mr. Anti-Political Correctness."

Pffft.


As a liberal pansy, I resemble that remark
 
2005-01-13 07:43:19 PM  
tukatz
Piggly Wiggly

Are you farking kidding me? There's a store called 'piggly wiggly'?
 
2005-01-13 07:43:22 PM  
If you think the "Chicoms" are communist, you must have been sleeping since about 1980.

China is currently one of the most unequal societies (economically) in the world.
 
2005-01-13 07:43:39 PM  
wait.... when did Anaheim become part of Los Angeles?!

Maybe you've never heard of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim?

/joke
//only said it so that those unfamiliar with L.A. could follow the bouncing ball
 
2005-01-13 07:45:22 PM  
Do expect us to go,
"Oooooh, you sure showed us liberal pansies who care about people earning a living wage and the homogenization of every aspect of American life. Stop it with your hard light of truth. You're too scary for us Mr. Anti-Political Correctness."Pffft.

-sockmonkey: Will you give me permission to use this in threads? I promise to give you credit.
 
2005-01-13 07:45:23 PM  
days like today make me wish i had totalfark status still
 
2005-01-13 07:47:54 PM  
i get a kick out of all of these arguments against walmart yes they do use non politically correct sources for a lot of their products but I mean come on they have done what any smart business person would do and they have been succesful, i think some people just dislike when things don't go how they want it to yes they may use sweat shops and child labor from china but hey so do more then half of all other stores in the U.S. if you want to change child labor problems in the world don't attack walmart attakc the source don't be idiots. I in no way believe that what walmart does is correct but i don't put them down for using practical profitable business solutions. We are capitalists no matter how much you think differently live with it this is how it works.
 
2005-01-13 07:53:58 PM  
all this and not one South park reference?
 
2005-01-13 07:56:25 PM  
They should have a website where you can use like a SideKick/cellphone to enter in the manufacturer of what you are purchasing and it spits back a brief ethics rating and bio

Also I'm surprised if Walmart is as bad as I hear that they havent had other companies starting campaigns against them.
 
2005-01-13 07:56:25 PM  
BransBadgers



Have you any idea the difference in scale between the number of people working at Wal-Mart and the number of people shopping there? The number of people who benefit from Wal-Mart's low prices far outweighs the number of people it provides with low wage jobs. Net effect = resounding good.



oh, so the fact that Wal-Mart is the nation's number one employer means what ? nothing ? we are not talking about a small number of people at extremely low wages.

or how about the number of people working at suppliers of Wal-Mart that have had to renogiate their employees wages in order to meet Wal-Mart demands (this happens a LOT) or go bankrupt ?

or how about all the folks that used to work in America producing goods for the domestic market that had their companies go belly-up, or his job shipped off, because they couldn't compete with foreign imports....I'll let you guess what company is the largest importer of foreign manufactured finished goods...by a significat margin over all others combined I would add.
 
2005-01-13 07:57:06 PM  
Anaheim is the location of the aforementioned Walmart.

I worked at that store (#2242) for 3 years. Given the clientele in the area, I doubt that the latest Anne Rice novel was high on their shopping list.

No longer can a simple, average Joe open a privately owned shop in an American city without the fear that they'll be swept away by a grinding machine...

A new hardware store opened in Long Beach, right around the corner from a Target and about a mile from Home Depot. They seem to be doing well. I mean, when you need one bag of 10d nails, do you really want to stand in line at Home Depot?
 
2005-01-13 07:59:27 PM  

We are capitalists no matter how much you think differently live with it this is how it works.


no, we are capitalists to whatever degree we CHOOSE to be as a society. capitalism is not a basic law of nature. It is an economic model. we are free to tinker with it however we wish for the greatest good to the greatest number.
 
2005-01-13 08:01:12 PM  
The lowest priced item is rarely the best value. I mean that from a social perspective as well as a product perspective.

Walmart encourages job loss and devaluation in the US.

Wake up people. Buy local.
 
2005-01-13 08:01:54 PM  
Walmart imported $18 billion dollars worth of goods from China in 2004. 70% of the goods in Walmart are made in China. The savings shoppers see in Walmart are at the cost of manufacturing jobs in the US.
 
2005-01-13 08:05:23 PM  
people who work for wal-mart shop at wal-mart
 
2005-01-13 08:09:35 PM  
All this blowhard talk about capitalism and free markets would actually mean something if every product and service were allowed to be sold/legally purchased in this country. But the fact that drugs, gambling and prostitution (among other things) are illegal discredit the notion of a capitalist utopia that so many of the pro-Walmart crowd rattles on about.

To clarify, I mean among adults, for adults, and by adults.
 
2005-01-13 08:10:13 PM  
plus WalMart's "saturation" technique.

open three or four stores all within easy driving distance of a town and overlwoad the market until all the competition is dead and closed down, then abandon the extra WalMart stores, leaving the community gutted and shopping at the remaining WalMart store.
 
2005-01-13 08:15:06 PM  
briann55555

Wal Mart is China's 7th or 8th largest trading partner. INCLUDING other countries, not just other corporations.
 
2005-01-13 08:19:17 PM  
wal-mart is the enemy.

(i believe this and i'm a republican)
 
2005-01-13 08:22:08 PM  
A new hardware store opened in Long Beach, right around the corner from a Target and about a mile from Home Depot. They seem to be doing well.

Okay. I'm wrong. Walmart has no affect on small businesses.

/wild imagination I guess
//when you lose everything due to a corporate conglomerate, give me a ring. I'll buy you a Starbucks.
 
2005-01-13 08:22:31 PM  
Instead of complaining, those wal-mart employees should quit and work elsewhere.


Oh whoops...nowhere else to work in west bumblefark...guess we screwed ourselves by welcoming wal-mart into our community!

But they don't see it that way...which is why they are 40+ and working at a Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 08:24:14 PM  
Weaver95
My objections to WalMart have to do with their flagrant labor violations. I don't like it when any business thumbs it's nose at labor laws - they're there for a good reason.

Uhh ... because namby-pamby bed-wetting liberals (i.e. the labor movement) fought for them? Just maybe? Whaddya think?

/Just sayin'
 
2005-01-13 08:24:47 PM  
>2005-01-13 06:26:54 PM vishuslee
>
>yo cheddarpants!
>
>as a former employee and graveyard shift worker for Kinko's, I can honestly say
>that the weirdos that go to wal-mart at 3:30 are the same farkin weirdos that show up
>in Kinko's at 3:30. And speaking of cults.... when Paul Orfela was running kinko's,
>it was very cultish... in a good way. Sam could have learned a few things about
>employee relations from Paul.

current kink-ite...don't recall ever selling keyboards and the like there. go to CVS or Meijer at 3 AM.

//surprised this is only the 2nd Meijer reference...
 
2005-01-13 08:25:14 PM  
Walmart is part of a self-feeding cycle:

1)Americans lose good paying jobs
2)Americans take low paying jobs
3)Americans go shop at Walmart to hopefully save money
4)Walmart gets bigger
5)Walmart forces manufactures to lower prices to the point where they take jobs overseas or just close
6)Repeat
 
2005-01-13 08:26:36 PM  
why is it that the result of capitalism, is communist-like corporations?

still cant get over Weaver95's rationality in this thread.
 
2005-01-13 08:26:48 PM  
Jeesh, whats with all the surprise for Weaver, he is conservative, not a f*cking rabid chimp. Conservatives and libs have lots in common, I mean, ponder that one wants less government spending, and the other wants less of a government personal morals regulator, why not get along?

My beef with Wal-Mart is that they are China's third largest trading partner. While a great deal of emphasis goes on the the direct local impact of Wal-Mart (Ma and Pop stores closing), I think a greater amount of economic impact comes from how they get their cheap prices through bulk buying and massive pressure on companies in a country that refuses to float its currency. The portability of labor to produce products wasn't at all what Ricardo had in mind when he advocated free-trade, especially not w/ regard to slave labor continents away in a country that doesn't even practice free trade with the currency underlying the cost of labor. I mean, he died in 1823, economies like ours were almost completely unimaginable at the time, and the idea of supercargo ships bringing over literally millions of tons of goods a day weren't at all what he had in mind.

As for me, now that I live in NYC, I'm happy to shop anywhere but wal-mart (havent been to one in years), but I must admit, that when I lived in Stillwater, OK and had no car, there was nothing and nowhere else to go, it's self sufficiency was completely gone, and adults were struggling and having difficulty finding jobs, even if they were willing to work for minimum wage.

Much Love,
Firefly
 
2005-01-13 08:27:13 PM  
Beautiful post Pole_Of_Justice.

*golf clap*
 
2005-01-13 08:27:41 PM  
Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot.

I don't shop there. exactly...

I return stuff there.

/works for me
 
2005-01-13 08:28:43 PM  
OK, so you tell me where I can get a computer keyboard, mouse, and DVD-ROM at 3:30 am then, smart guy.

get that stuff at work, silly man. you have a keycard for off-hours access, dontcha??

/obvious
 
2005-01-13 08:28:46 PM  
i know what i said was grossly simplified, but i mean, if WalMart was a country, would it be like china or sweden?
 
2005-01-13 08:32:08 PM  
A Day Older than Yesterday: Exactaly my point - there will always be jobs that pay below average and workers that earn below average. so the complaints about poor wages at Wally-World are basically from those that haven't thought it all the way through. You earn the prize for having a basic understanding of economics.

Woohoo! I knew that course last semester in Principles of Economics would pay off somewhere/somehow! Regardless though, it's not the wages that bother me, it's the unfair dealings with suppliers and "fair" treatment of workers that get me. I solve this the only way I know how though, I just refuse to shop at Walmart. It's the best action the average person can take if they want to make a difference, or what they perceive to be one.
 
2005-01-13 08:32:21 PM  
itazurakko:

If you think the "Chicoms" are communist, you must have been sleeping since about 1980.

China is currently one of the most unequal societies (economically) in the world.



And we're not looking for Democracy in Iraq. Communism is the philosophical core of the Chinese experiment. Maoism is but a twist on the Leninist (shut the fark up Donny) philosophy. But a philosophy is just that, an idea. The Chicoms allow great freedom in the practical exploitation of the Capitalist idea, but allow no leeway on the philosophical front.

From (u)Skousen, The Naked Communist, 1958,(/u) It is a terrible and awesome thing when a man sets out to create all other men in his own image.
 
2005-01-13 08:34:21 PM  
kcds,

You do understand that without labor unions, the vast majority of americans would be working 6 days/week, 10+ hours/day in crappy conditions and for little pay? Not to mention that whole child labor market nor workers comp/termination rights.

You may not think unions are that important now, but to dismiss them out of hand is as lame as dismissing sewer systems or police departments.
 
2005-01-13 08:34:24 PM  

2005-01-13 08:19:17 PM nerfball

wal-mart is the enemy.

(i believe this and i'm a republican)


Then you are not a Republican, buddy-o.

kcds
How can you equate "namby-pamby liberals" with fighting in any shape, form, or fashion? If you want to learn about fighting (and, in many cases, losing ones life) for labor rights a study of the movement for workers rights in the 20's and 30's would be in order.

/I'm guessing you work a 40 hour week
 
2005-01-13 08:35:38 PM  
dreadnaught:

why is it that the result of capitalism, is communist-like corporations?

wal-mart isn't about capitalism. they are a partner with a totalitarian state that ensures its citizens are paid slave wages to produce goods that wal-mart sells here at prices other companies can't match.

wal-mart benefits from labor practices that are illegal. they are illegal here, so wal-mart finds a compliant state that will permit the despicable labor practices in that country. either way, wal-mart profits are earned from despicable labor practices.

when i think of the chinese guy standing in front of the tank in tienenmen square, i realize it was the communist party that draped a wal-mart banner on that tank and crushed the dreams of the poor individual as well as way too many american workers.

wal-mart is the enemy. people who shop at wal-mart should be disgusted.
 
2005-01-13 08:36:15 PM  
The bigger issue here is globalization and how it is slowly but surely bringing us all down to a Third World, hellish level. The quality level of Walmart products is just horrendous--I bought silverware there before I really understood what Walmart was and represented--and all of it rusted in the dishwasher within a week. Yeah it was cheap! But I had to go to Target to get a real bargain--namely silverware I wouldn't get lockjaw from! The vacuum I bought SUCKED too. Ever bought "fresh" produce from Walmart? It will go bad within 24 hrs--almost as if the people transporting it never bothered refridgerating it.

Have you also noticed how, everywhere you see a Walmart, half the people are foriegn and don't speak English? This is globalization folks! We are shipping in the cheap labor as fast as we can so a small number of business people can make 7 figure incomes while the rest of us foot the bill in taxes for bilingual education, public healthcare and everything else. There's a reason why Bush is talking Amnesty for illegals while making legal immigrants (in other words educated) go through increasingly difficult entry requirements. This is a fact--you should see what my company has to go through to get programmers here from overseas, it's like the frikkin mafia! Meanwhile the non-educated are streaming in by the millions and Bush wants to legitimize them for breaking our laws! Only an idiot wouldn't see what's happening here.

We will continue to see our standard of living fall, and Walmart will continue leading the way straight to hell. I will only shop at Target these days.
 
2005-01-13 08:36:48 PM  
labor unions are the reason americans are not making $0.15 an hour, Just like the non-unionize communists in China right now.
 
2005-01-13 08:37:12 PM  
dreadnaught: why is it that the result of capitalism, is communist-like corporations?

It's not so much they become communist as they become a monopoly. Monopolies are successful for a time being, but they can not possibly sustain a controlling interest in a particular business. At some point, the downfall of the monopoly will come to pass. However, when this point will be for such a company as Walmart is as of yet unseen. In regards to what if Walmart were a country? I heard something along the lines of: If Walmart was it's own country, they would be the 5th largest country in terms of gross GDP for the world.
 
2005-01-13 08:38:43 PM  
BobC

that's why i only get things from wal-mart that i know are at other stores (name brand stuff)
 
2005-01-13 08:40:36 PM  
dbaggins:

labor unions are the reason americans are not making $0.15 an hour

labor unions are the reason steel is no longer manufactured in the united states, the reason that the american auto industry has been in steady decline for decades, the reason airlines are going bankrupt (need i go on?)

unions kill productivity and have cost americans millions of jobs.
 
2005-01-13 08:41:58 PM  
I don't particularly like Walmart, but my dogs like the Old Roy dog food. Maybe the secret ingredient is ground labor organizer.

But seriously folks, Walmart is reluctant to open full service supermarkets in New Jersey because they don't want to deal with the unionized cashiers and butchers that are employed in every other supermarket in NJ.
 
2005-01-13 08:42:07 PM  
Have you also noticed how, everywhere you see a Walmart, half the people are foriegn and don't speak English?

Hick still qualifies as English.

Target isn't much better, you know.
 
2005-01-13 08:43:40 PM  
nerfball unions kill productivity and have cost americans millions of jobs.

Agreed, for the most part. My grandfather was a union organiser in the 50's for International Harvester and is more than likely spinning in his grave over today's situation.

Unions are big business. Guess what that means guys?
 
2005-01-13 08:45:25 PM  
As a consumer, republican and Wal-Mart shareholder, I've gotta say that YOU'VE GOTTA GET TO WHITE CASTLE BEFORE THE WEIRDOS SHOW UP!!!
 
2005-01-13 08:45:56 PM  
Xed Ping

Hello? Hellllloooooo?

Hmph. Must be off to the Walmart.
 
2005-01-13 08:46:10 PM  
2005-01-13 08:35:38 PM nerfball

wal-mart isn't about capitalism. they are a partner with a totalitarian state that ensures its citizens are paid slave wages to produce goods that wal-mart sells here at prices other companies can't match.


Totalitarian in cahoots with Republican, who'd have thunk it.

wal-mart benefits from labor practices that are illegal. they are illegal here, so wal-mart finds a compliant state that will permit the despicable labor practices in that country. either way, wal-mart profits are earned from despicable labor practices.

Actually, Walmart is very careful to ensure that all of its overseas factories are in 100% compliance with very specific rules about worker conditions, safety and wages, within each host country. But when they can make/buy it cheaper there, they do.

wal-mart is the enemy. people who shop at wal-mart should be disgusted.

Again, you are not a Republican, as much as you might like to tell your Dad you are.
 
2005-01-13 08:46:22 PM  
nerfball,

The flood of cheap steel from International sources is the reason why the steel industry colapsed in the US. Even with protectionist tarrifs, the US was unable to remain competitive.

I know, you would rather have a destitute, but employed workforce. As far as I can tell, most of the jobs from the industrial shutdowns you are railing about have been changed into service and information industry jobs.
 
2005-01-13 08:48:13 PM  
All of those companies use subcontractors. Sure, they can tell you that they don't do illegal business practice, but it's just a fancy game of "don't ask, don't tell."
 
2005-01-13 08:48:26 PM  
McDork:

My grandfather was a union organiser in the 50's for International Harvester and is more than likely spinning in his grave over today's situation.


from a greenlit post just this morning...

Then there was the accountant who paid his mother-in-law $650 a week for part-time work as a bookkeeper while charging the local's pension and welfare funds $182,000 a year for her services, an independent hearing officer concluded.

And the business partner of another former official who was hired as the office manager of a satellite office at the Jersey Shore and paid $123,500 to supervise two people.

The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries."

Trustees for the Washington, D.C.-based union -- who are seeking damages from current and former officials, and want to remove the leadership of the local -- also alleged that some officials of the local who controlled millions in funds had ties to organized crime.

http://nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-19/1105600169183670.xml
 
2005-01-13 08:49:12 PM  
nerfball

My dad still makes steel in the US.

American cars don't sell because of bad design.

Airlines, I don't know about.
 
2005-01-13 08:49:45 PM  
Unions are big business. Guess what that means guys?

No they aren't. Some could be considered too large for their purposes (AFL/CIO) and therefore bureacratic nightmares, but for the most part unions are relatively small organizations that allow collective strength in an otherwise lopsided relationship of employer/employee.
 
2005-01-13 08:50:11 PM  
Typical Americans; wants cake to eat it too.

isn't that _really_ "typical humans" ?

I mean, I don't see how this is uniquely american. or uniquely western. but given the same set of circumstances, everyone would act the same way.
 
2005-01-13 08:50:52 PM  
URL HIX:

Again, you are not a Republican, as much as you might like to tell your Dad you are.

speechwriter for the bush '98 gubernatorial campaign and the 2000 presidential campaign. most people would say that i qualify as at least a closet republican.

/still despise all that wal-mart stands for.
 
2005-01-13 08:51:34 PM  
It's not so much that they drive small, local companies out of business, it's that they force their suppliers to lower THEIR price. The supplier, in turn, is forced to comply, since Wal-Mart's business is to valuable to lose. The supplier must then close their US plants and buy their goods from overseas, putting more Americans out of work.
 
2005-01-13 08:52:44 PM  
Sad part is, Adam Smith himself is probably spinning in his grave over the economic system we have today.

Vertically integrated behemoth companies don't have a heck of a lot to do with "free trade," and we no longer live in the world Smith lived in, where transit obstacles ensured that economies remained a manageable size with reasonable entry barriers.
 
2005-01-13 08:56:58 PM  
nerfball

speechwriter for the bush '98 gubernatorial campaign and the 2000 presidential campaign. most people would say that i qualify as at least a closet republican.


Oh, I see, you are really just another self-hating Republican voting against your own best interests.

Coffee's on.
Care to smell it?

/They didn't want you in 2004?
/just kidding, man.
 
2005-01-13 08:57:32 PM  
for the most part unions are relatively small organizations that allow collective strength in an otherwise lopsided relationship of employer/employee.

How about SAG and AFTRA? They nearly went on strike because actors and voice over talent wanted more than "sliding scale" for commercials aired on cable television.

People who work one day for 5 grand need not be too picky. And this from a "libbie grandson of a union organiser", a man who worked in coal mines in the 1920's for 2 bucks a week. It's not what he stood for, methinks, in this example.
 
2005-01-13 08:58:06 PM  
URL HIX:

My dad still makes steel in the US.
American cars don't sell because of bad design.
Airlines, I don't know about.


how many american steel manufacturers have been driven into bankruptcy?

cars sell on price and the pension/ health benefits of retired union workers have added thousands to the cost of american cars. the unions never cared about the long term costs of their contract demands because unions don't care about the american worker, they only care about their own self interests.

the airlines are screwed due in large part to union contracts negotiated during good times that can't be afforded when economic forces change.

if you need another reason to hate unions, look what they have done to the u.s. education system.

wal-mart would benefit from unionized workers. union wages would offset their deals with communist china.
 
2005-01-13 08:58:34 PM  
I don't know why people have such issues with WalMart. First of all, at least in Canada, WalMart is awsome - it has no people with mullets working there, and its prices are unbeatable. As for putting americans out of work - so does every advancement in technology. You're making the same argument as factory workers would make when they're replaced by machinery. I'm a firm believer that the free market will balance itself out, and that walmart's cheap prices are good for the consumer. No one is forcing anyone to work at walmart, so if they were gouging their employess that badly, no one would work for them.

disclaimer: I only have experience with Canadian WalMart, which seems to be better both in its ambience and the wages it pays its employees. I know multiple people who worked there without any complaints.
 
2005-01-13 09:00:09 PM  
nerfball

Interesting article. Eventually ALL worms make the system work for them.

'Tis the American way!
 
2005-01-13 09:00:17 PM  
URL HIX:

/They didn't want you in 2004?
/just kidding, man.


donated enough of my time and gave up enough income to do my part. (political campaigns don't pay) each of us should contribute, but i did my part.
 
2005-01-13 09:02:52 PM  
nerfball

dbaggins:

labor unions are the reason americans are not making $0.15 an hour

labor unions are the reason steel is no longer manufactured in the united states, the reason that the american auto industry has been in steady decline for decades, the reason airlines are going bankrupt (need i go on?)

unions kill productivity and have cost americans millions of jobs.

//

Without being pro or anti union here... steel problems are alot more than union issues, and this statement really shows just how little you understand about the concept of dumping, especially with regards to east asia and the dumping of steel into the US at below both market and actual manufacturing costs.

As to minimum wages... it is a price floor, it works like all other price floors, I'm sure you can go read about it on about.com or borrow a high schoolers basic economics book. In an oversimplified nutshell Higher Minimum Wage= Better Jobs, Lower Minimum Wage=More Jobs. The other side of this 'market rate' side is that because we have decided on basic minimum standards of living, the difference between what many wal-mart and other minimum wage employees earn, and that MSL is filled in in many places by government services... so to those of you who worry about paying 175 at the wal-mart for groceries, or 200 at a union store ... dont be so sure you're saving too much, a wad of your cash may be going right back to that wal-mart employee in the form of state-subsidized healthcare, increased hospital charges to cover non-payment by the indigent, food stamps, WIC (or other nutritional assistance), and a variety of other programs for the working poor.

As to the couple of wally world employees who say they are the best in retail, erm... no. I'm happy you had a good experience there, and I don't really want to badmouth anyone. Stastically, wal-mart spends 78% per year per hourly employee as Target does, and 64% per year per hourly employee as Home Depot (Widely regarded as the best place to work in retail) does. So while it may have been enough for you, it is still below industry average within retail.

As to the politics of all this... basically up to about 12 an hour, if you make less than that, you can get enough services from the government to actually get about the same goods and quality of goods as someone who does... I support most of those programs because I think people who work should have basic things like food, shelter, and health insurance. That said, I personally prefer to shop at union stores because I would prefer you get the 12 directly from the company, which almost undoubtedly has a more efficient delivery system than the govt. While you may end up with about 12 either way, it would be substantially cheaper to just have companies give you the 12 and cut budgets for some of the programs than have the high overhead of government services attatched to the same standard of living. I think most conservatives would agree that cutting overhead and making delivery more efficient is a good thing, not to mention the ancillary benefit of less government. I also think that most liberals would be happy to see so many people have abundant opportunities to succeed on their own, because in the end, equal opportunity to succeed is what it's all about.

Much Love,
Firefly
 
2005-01-13 09:03:17 PM  
Barraketh That's because Canada already has a national health care system. In a country like ours, where having health coverage depends on being able to get full time employment, companies like WalMart work to help keep making our states go bankrupt providing indigent emergency services.
 
2005-01-13 09:03:48 PM  
By the way, where I live (South Florida) Wal-Mart has a huge display where they sell...bananas. Bananas! Who the hell goes to a Wal-Mart for bananas?!

/seriously
 
2005-01-13 09:03:48 PM  
/outta this thread. have a great night, friends.
 
2005-01-13 09:03:51 PM  
McDork,

SAG and AFTRA could be considered another issue altogether. All I have to say about that is that when you only get one day's work for a few weeks (or more) you need to ensure you get paid enough to support your lifestyle (*cough* coke habit *cough*).

Dismissing unions because some of them are corrupt and some of them are rediculous is a little hasty is all I'm sayin.
 
2005-01-13 09:03:56 PM  
Big Tuna

Nice article, everyone should read it and pay close attention to this part:


In the end, of course, it is we as shoppers who have the power, and who have given that power to Wal-Mart. Part of Wal-Mart's dominance, part of its insight, and part of its arrogance, is that it presumes to speak for American shoppers.
 
2005-01-13 09:03:57 PM  
I have issues not only with WalMart but with the market share war being waged by the various big boxes generally.

It's wasteful. We are wasting all kinds of resources and putting people through pain for the sake of ideological purity, and that's just silly.
 
2005-01-13 09:04:11 PM  
I was on a road trip a few years ago and went into a walmart in Chattanooga,TN. The greeter person at the front of the store had one good arm and the other arm was....lets say "missing". He had this big yellow button that said "ASK ME WHERE IS'S AT" I turned around and never set foot into a Walmart again.

/true story
 
2005-01-13 09:05:40 PM  
The_Bob_Talbot

"The only small businesses that get destroyed by Wal-Mart are the ones without the creativity or drive to remain competitive. As a small businessowner you have the opportunity to provide levels of very personalized customer service that Wal-Mart can never achieve, as hard as they try. Sam Walton freely admitted this. In fact, the man himself outlined very specific and effective ways of competing with Wal-Mart in his biography."

Not particularly where retail is concerned. Every consumer these days with the exception of the 'senior citizens' is purely price driven where good are concerned. I, who am in the computer service business, wouldn't particularly be out of business if Wal-Mart offered computer repair services. I know my clients, and go out of my way to wave or call them by name if I see them around town (which is no small feat). The only way that Wal-Mart would come even close to touching me would be if it offered on-site service, but I know my clients networks, how their software is set up, all their particular 'gotchas'. Wal_Mart can't do that. Admittedly, I'm out to put the computer shops in town out of the service business. If someone is price resistant I let them take their machine to a shop, invariably they come back to me.
 
2005-01-13 09:07:05 PM  
2005-01-13 08:58:06 PM nerfball

how many american steel manufacturers have been driven into bankruptcy?


Not the company my Dad is working for. There are plenty of steel mills in Alabama. One of them slowly killed my grandmother, who lived down the street, with the emission 24 hours a day.

cars sell on price

Cars sell on sexy and the design work of American car makers is not very sexy.

unions don't care about the american worker, they only care about their own self interests.

Actually, their self interest is the American worker (mostly).

the airlines are screwed due in large part to union contracts negotiated during good times that can't be afforded when economic forces change.

Don't know about the airlines, as I said. But who caused, or at least accelerated the changes in the economy?
 
2005-01-13 09:07:11 PM  
itazurakko

Sad part is, Adam Smith himself is probably spinning in his grave over the economic system we have today.

//

He and Ricardo are hiding in the corner while Keynes screams "look what you've done you little biatches!"
 
2005-01-13 09:07:17 PM  
Spacemarinekilla

Yeah, or just likes to get his three-month-old video games really cheap.


Get them from EB used... I got three games for $45 just after xmas. Your cheapness is no reason to tarnish your soul.
 
2005-01-13 09:08:36 PM  
my uncle worked at walmart (or tried to). he was receiving unemployment compensation from his previous factory job he had to quit because he hurt his back and couldn't lift stuff anymore. well, he gets hired at walmart and they contest his unemployment wages FOR NO REASON and it didn't impact walmart in any way possible. when it was taken to court, the walmart dudes with their 300-page thick binders full of company policy stroll in with a few attorneys, ready to contest my self-represented 34-year-old uncle. my uncle didn't have to say much. the DA kicked the walmart guys out of the courtroom and told them that their corporate policy isn't wisconsin state law.

now, i've read and heard enough things about walmart being this big evil corporation...

but WHERE ELSE can you buy BAGGED PINE CONES for $5.95 on XMAS EVE?

...
 
2005-01-13 09:08:56 PM  
2005-01-13 09:00:17 PM nerfball

URL HIX:

/They didn't want you in 2004?
/just kidding, man.

donated enough of my time and gave up enough income to do my part


As did Walmart, as did Walmart...
 
2005-01-13 09:09:57 PM  
SAG and AFTRA could be considered another issue altogether. All I have to say about that is that when you only get one day's work for a few weeks (or more) you need to ensure you get paid enough to support your lifestyle (*cough* coke habit *cough*).

haha. You made me raugh out roud.

Dismissing unions because some of them are corrupt and some of them are rediculous is a little hasty is all I'm sayin

I'm not dismissing ALL unions - sorry if it came across that way - it's just that those killed in the Haymarket Riot didn't necessarily have these douchebags in mind, not to mention the shadier aspect of unions (ask about the waste disposal fellas...well, not too loudly).

I'm thinking the working class needs some sort of protection and that it needs some serious revamping. I don't know what the solution is myself, after all, I work in reality television which is not supported by any union, so I'm screwed too. If I biatch and moan enough, the most I'll get is FIRED.

Welcome to the new America.
 
2005-01-13 09:11:15 PM  
I make way way way more than .15 cents an hour, and I didn't have to place my lips on the Union's phallus.
 
2005-01-13 09:12:53 PM  
EnormousJuan

I make way way way more than .15 cents an hour, and I didn't have to place my lips on the Union's phallus.

//
So did Rockafeller, I presume you're going somewhere with this though, so I will wait patiently.

Firefly
 
2005-01-13 09:13:22 PM  
well, they're republicans.
problem? lie. believe the lie. problem solved.
 
2005-01-13 09:15:14 PM  
McDork,

march of the cokelords!
welcome to NEW America. Just like old America but now with more fiber.

In other words: Totes, mate.
 
2005-01-13 09:16:57 PM  
<b>PSA:</b>

For those of you wondering how to make your quotes in <b>bold</b> ... surround your quote with <b> on one side of the word and </b> on the other. Be sure to preview-before-post to be sure you did it correctly. To <i>italicize</i> use an "I" instead of a "B".

/Nevermind....looks like it's not posting correctly. All of those things where the amperstands appear are, in reality, those to upper-case characters immediately to the left of the 'M' on your keyboard.

//tried to help....
 
2005-01-13 09:17:55 PM  
Well, I have worked at wally world for 2 years now and I make $18.55 an hour as an overnight supervisor so I cannot complain about the wages.
 
2005-01-13 09:17:59 PM  
jordan_lund,

Interesting, i didn't consider that. Is it common for all employers in the US to give medical insurance, or is it just that WalMart is more obvious than others in not doing so because they employ so many people?
 
2005-01-13 09:19:26 PM  
Heh! It worked!
 
2005-01-13 09:20:15 PM  
Thank you, do-gooder Melgoesontour.

/Should go on a tour of the HTML factory.

/You do know that no good deed goes unpunished, right?
 
2005-01-13 09:21:50 PM  
Forgive me, URL HIX ... But it took me AGES to figure this stuff out and, well, I'm drunk.
 
2005-01-13 09:22:36 PM  
So I hope this isn't too late to be a part of this shining example of public debate (Sic Semper Trollynus), but; my two cents:

I, like most who are reading and posting in this thread, have mixed feelings about WalMart. I am very aware of some of the economic effects it has, both in local settings where workers and small businesses are affected, and in the national setting, where this behemoth (which would rank as #19 in GDP compared to all nations) arm-twists suppliers and contributes to an ever increasing trade deficit situation. On the other hand, it is a great place to go if I have to pick up something odd that I would have to search other stores to find, and at a great price to boot. But here is what I have realized:

It's not my problem.

It's not most of your problems. I'm sorry to sound so presumptive, but it seems the typical Farker (at least those who are involved enough to post in threads) are part of a different demographic than Wal-Mart's most profitable customers.
I was reading an article on Wal Mart's new "Ilo" televisions, and whether this would have an effect on stores such as Best Buy. The article guessed that it wouldn't, because of the different demographics, pointing out that Wal Mart's customer SALES base breaks down like the following:

Household income: % of Wal Mart Sales
Under $50,000 approx. 60% (I don't know exact number)
$50,000-$100,000 25-30%
$100,000 and up the remaining %

This seems to make sense, doesn't it? As soon as I strike it rich, I'll probably stop buying much other than deoderant from this store. An upper middle class college student, I occasionally buy stuff from the store, but I don't venture into the apparel or food sections (though sadly, I have bought some of the brightly colored plastic cups). And hopefully, someday I'll graduate, get a good job, and not feel very threatened by the Giant.

But every time I go to a Wal Mart, both in the North and the South (at school), I can't help but to look at most of the other shoppers. Many have posted harsher generalizations of the chunky, camo-clad, NASCAR fans buying 96 packs of frozen hotdogs and 15 packs of Levi's. I'm sure that descriptions of diners in the WalCafe are much worse. But all this is to say, it seems from observation, and from the statistics above, that the working class and poorer families are those who shop at WM the most. And why not? If I can save $3.00 on one stick of deoderant, making all of my purchases there can certainly stretch a small paycheck.

Wal Mart is their problem. Theirs are the manufacturing jobs that are disappearing as the WM beast drops suppliers who can't lower their prices any more, which then lose huge sales percentages. These manufacturers are forced to make cutbacks, as foreign suppliers (over 80% of WalMart's goods are made in the PR of China) gladly pick up the slack. The displaced American workers then find salvation and jobs in the very thing that put them there. Where are some of the lowest per capita incomes? Rural/heartland areas. Where are the most Wal Marts located? Just those areas. Where are the highest incomes? City/urban areas (think NY/NJ, SoCal, South Florida). These areas also have much fewer Wal Marts per capita.

In conclusion, it's just not my problem. I will continue to feel pangs of liberal guilt as I buy my toiletries and develop film amongst the downtrodden shoppers of society, but I will not stop going there. Those who say "I will never again shop at Wally Worl" have good intentions, but no good will be done. Sympathetic Americans must somehow convince the Working Class that their jobs won't stop disappearing until they start shelling out twice the amount of money on goods, or perhaps halve their consumption. Either way, the poor will get screwed, and that, my friends, seems to be the truly sad part of Capitalism.

So thanks for reading, and sorry for my long rant, but I doubt I need to apologize, since few have probably stuck with me along the way. If you want to know where I got my info, besides the mystery article that I can't prodcue, many of the figures come from http://www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/why_walmart.html or
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

Happy shopping.
 
2005-01-13 09:24:59 PM  
Barraketh: Roughly since the end of WW2 we've had a system in the United States where most people get insurance provided by their employers. This first started as a way to get people to accept wage cuts or smaller wage gains when times were tight - they put on "benefits" instead.

But lately, increases in the cost of medical care, HMOs and the like have got more and more employers either not providing coverage (just saying they don't, or else not offering the full time jobs that they offer the coverage on) or charging higher and higher premiums for the company plan, such that many people can't afford to pay their part even if offered. This is largely what the California supermarket strike was about.

The problem with this is, we're running up against globalization and the merging of economies that happens when the internets and transit and phones and all that make it easier for companies and capital to span the globe. Why? Because the merging of economies at such different scales is going to mean short term pain, layoffs, and ideally a more fluid labor market being required, so, people being willing to go out and retrain and job hop often.

But with health care provided by the JOB, no one really wants to job hop all that often because it's risky. No one wants to lose insurance, particularly if they have any health problems at all, because if you're jobless for too long, the next company will not have to offer you coverage, instead denying you due to existing health problems.

Big issue in the US right now.
 
2005-01-13 09:25:23 PM  
i can complain about wages...

i work for another giant corporation...clearchannel radio.

$6.25 per, random 18-hour shifts...
 
2005-01-13 09:25:25 PM  
No forgiveness needed, Mel, I'm drunk too. I should have used the tag.
 
2005-01-13 09:30:11 PM  
As a rational consumer, I go to Wal-Mart only if it is economic and expedient to do so.

I dont shop there for quality durable goods. I buy produce and groceries that I will use within a few days, or can safely freeze or store; and generic dry goods like soap, shampoo etc. (never have given a flying for brand names).

Where I live (metro-Phoenix) simple observation in the local stores tells me a lot of poorer Hispanic families use Wal-Mart because they have access to kids clothes, furniture, toys etc., that they can't afford elsewhere - that is a societal benefit produced by Wal-Mart that is often overlooked.

Wal-Marts eventual downfall will be caused by collapsing under its own weight as it becomes too large (unentrepreneurial and bureaucratized) to adapt quickly enough to survive changes to the marketplace, if China feels strong enough to uncouple its currency peg from the US$ and Wal-Mart prices loose their competitive edge, or if there is an effective trade embargo on Chinese goods.

However, my nightmare still, ...is to have to work at Wal-Mart because its the only job I can find.
 
2005-01-13 09:30:19 PM  
jmalc

While I understand your "It's not my problem, it's theirs" point, allow me to say...

History dictates that this will escalate. Then, it will be "your problem" (as well as mine - I share the same sentiment).

We, as a country, are digging our own grave....slowly and cheaply (thanks to the gardening section at Walmart!!).

It might not, it hopefully won't, happen in our lifetimes, but it's-a-comin'. It could actually be 100 years in the making, but the distance 'tween the have nots and the haves is growing exponentianally, and evenutally the phrase "it's not my problem, it's theirs" will belong to the few elite.

I know I've grown more cynical in my growing years, but I take comfort in knowing this will all self-destruct in the coming decades. I guess it makes me sad iz all.
 
2005-01-13 09:32:35 PM  
jmalc
But here is what I have realized:

It's not my problem.


Your long post would indicate to me that you actually are not so heartless as to think that it is not your problem. These are problems that are going to be (and have been) happening whether or not you have a "good job" or are making a lot of money. If you don't care about the least among us then you are selfish. Just because someone doesn't have the education, skills, or closed-mouth breathing technique that you use doesn't make lower standards more acceptable.
 
2005-01-13 09:40:38 PM  
So what a lot of you are telling me is that you will not buy from Wal-mart even if they have the lower price. You are either lying or very dumb.
 
2005-01-13 09:41:36 PM  
I honestly think you people are missing the one argument that turns away most Wal-Mart supporters (who are all about saving a penny.)

WAL-MART COSTS YOU MONEY EVERY YEAR WHEN YOU PAY YOUR TAXES.

see one of the dozens of links above, or google it for proof.
 
2005-01-13 09:41:48 PM  
BeerNut:

So what a lot of you are telling me is that you will not buy from Wal-mart even if they have the lower price. You are either lying or very dumb.

I am neither, and I don't shop at Wal-Mart for just that reason.

Care to match wits?
 
2005-01-13 09:42:21 PM  
BeerNut: Price is not measured in the dollar cost of the item alone.

I am not kidding when I say I do not shop at WalMart. Given that it's way on the edge of town in the midst of strip mall hell, it's a pain in the ass to get there to boot, which just adds to its lack of appeal.

I can afford to get a better value, and so I do. That's all.
 
2005-01-13 09:46:08 PM  
itazurakko,

So is regular health insurance prohibitively expensive, forcing the people to depend on their employers? It seems that it would be a far better division of responsibilities if employers payed people decent money, and then the people went out and got their own health insurance plans.
 
2005-01-13 09:46:51 PM  
BeerNut,

I believe the word you are looking for is 'principled'
 
2005-01-13 09:47:48 PM  
You know whats the worst?
Being a kid in a small town and not being able to find anywhere more interesting that WalMart to hang out after you get stoned?
/Sigh.
 
2005-01-13 09:47:58 PM  
Barraketh

Obviously you don't know any self-employed. Health insurance is UNGODLY expensive. Big companies get deals worked out.
 
2005-01-13 09:48:18 PM  
I, apparently, am quite heartless. I am well aware that this is a problem, nonetheless, but the point of my post is that it seems that those most affected are those that are most dependent on the Cost savings of WalMart shopping. This isn't a "Let them eat cake" statement. This is a "We must do our part to spread the truth of the situation" statement.

Unfortunately, URL HIX, I am not educated, skilled, or snobby enough to be above this issue. But don't you stop to wonder why those that have more education in economics than the rest of us are comfortable in their currency trading firms, never having to shop at WalMart with their 6 or 7 figure incomes. It IS us, and yes McDork, this will gradually catch up with many who consider their proper niche in the service industries, who are left to fend for ourselves against Walmart, but WE have created this problem.

Solutions? Solutions are hard to come by, but if we are ever to pry ourselves away from the poisoned Teet of Wal Mart, we must get those who need the savings the most, the poor and working class, into a position where they have enough social and financial capital to choose where they buy. This means social welfare services. And this PAINS me, because I am a registered Republican, awed and how farked up we seeem to be with current Social Security/Medical/Tax incentive policies. Yes, I am a very confused American, but I'm certainly willing to do something about all this.
 
2005-01-13 09:48:30 PM  
BeerNut

No, I shop there. They are the closest store of any kind within 30 minutes of where I live that has the quality of goods (as meager as that is) that I need, all in one place. If Kmart or Target wasn't another 30 minutes I would gladly shop there. My "local grocery" (20 minutes in the other direction) is half as good and twice as expensive so it is a no-brainer. Most of the people in my poor, rural county are in the same boat. Fortunately, I'm moving to a place where I'll be able to spend more responsibly. But again, that doesn't make their (Walmart) business practices right.
 
2005-01-13 09:48:31 PM  
So what a lot of you are telling me is that you will not buy from Wal-mart even if they have the lower price. You are either lying or very dumb

An interesting couple of options.

Strangely, I belong in neither category.
 
2005-01-13 09:48:48 PM  
Is this before or after their roll-back on wages?
 
2005-01-13 09:50:06 PM  
So what a lot of you are telling me is that you will not buy from Wal-mart even if they have the lower price. You are either lying or very dumb

So, if the Klan had a bake sale,
and they had the lowest priced birthday cake,
you would buy from them?

Wow. You suck.
 
2005-01-13 09:50:40 PM  
nevesis

I'm from Canada - our healthcare is covered by the government, and by the ungodly taxes we pay =)
 
2005-01-13 09:51:09 PM  
DarwinEffect

A. Wal-Mart has a certain dvd player for 59.95

B. Mom & Pop has same dvd player for 74.95

Who do you buy the dvd player from? If you chose B you are coming to a battle of wits unarmed.
 
2005-01-13 09:51:31 PM  
BeerNut

"Lower prices" do not automatically dictate where one will shop and it's not an indicator of shopping-saviness. I can buy birdseed (as a real life example) at Wal-Mart for pennies on the dollar but, instead, I buy it at my local Mom-n-Pop pet supply store at a higher cost. Why? Because I trust the mom-n-pop place for having fresh stuff of very good quality (*very good* being the operative words). Additionally, as an aside....Wal-Mart takes specific advantage of lower economic based communities. I mean, how many Wal-Marts are in Beverly Hills compared to, say, Central Florida towns? You know what I'm saying by now.
 
2005-01-13 09:51:57 PM  
Barraketh: The thing is, individuals can't get the good value cheap rates. You pay quite a bit less through your employer than you would on your own.

It used to be that most insurance was regional, which was good not only for the lack of employment necessity reasons but also because it led to a better mix of members (some sick, some healthy, so that the money got spread around). With risk stratification these days, it can be very hard for some people to get insured at all. And of course, we end up paying for those people in the end, because they cost a lot of money showing up to the emergency room at death's door.

But the bottom line is that yeah, right now, getting it through work is really the one affordable option. And so, getting jobs with benefits is a very highly prized thing, and you have many people who (1) won't job hop, or (2) won't take half-time or part-time work even if they want to (say, they want more kid time or whatever) because it means they'd lose the benefit. If we need people freer to move, it's not a good plan to be on.

There are some moves to move back toward having voluntary cooperatives for insurance, but a lot of the insurance companies don't want any of it. Those companies tend to give big political contributions (to both parties - they know how to game the system) and so not much happens.

And then, of course - dare I say it - there are moves toward single payer. But the people making the $$$ off the current system REALLY don't like that one.
 
2005-01-13 09:54:17 PM  
jmalc: Right on. The first step is definitely spreading the word.

And yep, WalMart is definitely creating its own customer base that lacks choices.
 
2005-01-13 09:54:19 PM  
Weaver95:

"...it's almost if a bunch of college maoists/commies got together and dreamed up everything wrong about corporate america from their perspective. Then built it and set it loose on the world."

Hehehehe, I knew you'd find some way to blame liberals for Wal-Mart!
 
2005-01-13 09:55:28 PM  
MelGoesOnTour

There are items such as the example you gave where I can understand people not shopping at Wal-Mart. I am talking about two identical items where Wal-Mart has the lower price. All things being equal most people will go with the lower price, including me.
 
2005-01-13 09:56:27 PM  
itazurakko

Thanks for the explanation. Now where does WalMart fit in this? Do they pay benefits? If so then why are people saying that WalMart's employees are costing the taxpayers health costs? And if they're not, wouldn't that encourage people not to work for WalMart - between the low wages and the lack of benefits it seems that WalMart wouldn't have much hiring power...
 
2005-01-13 09:57:55 PM  
2005-01-13 09:48:18 PM jmalc

I, apparently, am quite heartless.


I'm sure you have a heart, as I said in my post. You don't seem like the standard GOP-er.

This is a "We must do our part to spread the truth of the situation" statement.

Again, you don't seem like a standard Republican. Are you sure you are one?

Unfortunately, URL HIX, I am not educated, skilled, or snobby enough to be above this issue.

See previous statement. How about voting for your own interests for a change?

But don't you stop to wonder why those that have more education in economics than the rest of us are comfortable in their currency trading firms, never having to shop at WalMart with their 6 or 7 figure incomes.

They don't go to buy their own groceries, it is up to the nanny or maid or some other person who is paid to shop and they had better bring in the goods cheap, or they are fired. You can bet they go to Walmart.

Solutions? Solutions are hard to come by, but if we are ever to pry ourselves away from the poisoned Teet of Wal Mart, we must get those who need the savings the most, the poor and working class, into a position where they have enough social and financial capital to choose where they buy. This means social welfare services. And this PAINS me, because I am a registered Republican, awed and how farked up we seeem to be with current Social Security/Medical/Tax incentive policies.

SS/MC have nothing to do with it. The tax breaks for corporations are certainly out of line.
 
2005-01-13 09:58:03 PM  
between the low wages and the lack of benefits it seems that WalMart wouldn't have much hiring power...

Ever read The Jungle?
 
2005-01-13 09:58:03 PM  
I shop at WalMart on occasion even though I know they are monopolistic, Asian slave employing assholes with no respect for American employees. Why? Because I like myself more than America. If I can save money, then fark the workers, let them take care of themselves. I'd rather be a slave worker Asian than an out of work Asian anyways. If WalMart sucks, then the people who have to deal with the problems can fix it.

Yeah, I'm an asshole. I don't care.
 
2005-01-13 09:58:32 PM  
I'm a poor student. I don't know economics and I can't predict economic trends. As such, I shop at Wal-Mart out of necessity. Honestly, sometimes it's just the cheapest place for "stuff". I don't buy food or pharmacy products there, but if I need a shelving unit or Rubbermaid tote, I'm either going to Wal-Mart or Home Depot because they are the cheapest. I'm poorer than I'd like to be, and simply I cannot afford to be an activist. That's not Wal-Mart's fault, it's nobody's fault. However I'm forced to. I don't like their practices but I'm not exactly in a position to do anything about it right now.

/everyone who says they hate Wal-Mart but love Coca-Cola are just hypocrites.
//have a look at Coca-Cola's history, especially the "bottling plant" incident in Guatemala (I think).
///not such an activist now, are you?
 
2005-01-13 09:59:58 PM  
BeerNut,

Frankly, I wouldn't have even known about/cared about the price at Walmart. Call that stupid, but I won't shop there.

Just because most people do something doesn't make it a good thing.
 
2005-01-13 10:00:57 PM  
Nobody ever really does respond to complete thoughts any more. I was looking forward to debate about my post and how wal-mart doesn't really save money, but I guess I'll settle.

Firstly, I would like to thank jmalc for actually taking the time to make his arguement, not just whip out an overblown one-liner.

I guess the best way to reply is point by point:

Your arguement that it doesn't affect your job because it's direct effects are confined to manufacturing and retail competition is bunk. As those people lose their jobs, the US as a whole loses purchasing power, especially given the weakness of the dollar, in addition to having an increased labor pool size, indirectly affects all of us, as downward pressure is applied to labor prices thus exacerbating the failing dollar and compounding the effective rate of inflation by both increasing actual inflation and decreasing purchasing power. When all those retailers and manufacturers can't buy whatever product you take part in the production of, or cant buy what your clients advertise... you'll be in the same pot as them.

//On the other hand, it is a great place to go if I have to pick up something odd that I would have to search other stores to find, and at a great price to boot.//

(The basket is goods that comprise the CPI, in this case it is only measuring those goods in the basket that wal mart carries) Sorry if this doesn't paste well
Umm no, it's actually not such a great price:

Wal-Mart Price Comparison on the Basket
Days since open: Price adjusted average percentage, compared with regional market:
1-90 72.23%
91-180 84.19%
181-270 86.20%
271-360 97.43%
361-450 104.21%
451-540 108.38%

YOY
Y0-Y1 150.08%
Y1-Y2 108.6%
Y2-Y3 108.2%

Thats kind of a yucky way of showing it, but I do policy analysis for a living, so I don't know the fun way of just saying things. I'll give it a whirl, in case the charts dont format well... Wally comes in with a great price, competes until there is no competition, raises prices to well above the previous market prices, and continues to raise prices at a rate higher than the inflation rate. Your great deal for the first 9 months costs you substantially in the long run. I dont know how much you think deodorant costs, but I get mine for 2.59 (its the big old spice high endurance one) at a union store... so if you are saving three bucks on deodorant, more power to ya, but I think it's more likely the illusion of savings has just permeated your mind so much that maybe you aren't saving quite as big as you might think you are. The numbers are based on averages though, so heck, maybe you're an exception, and youre still saving 4-5 percent after a year or two, but it's not likely, as the basics of their pricing structure are central to their business model.

Much Love,
Firefly
 
2005-01-13 10:01:01 PM  
BeerNut:

Who do you buy the dvd player from? If you chose B you are coming to a battle of wits unarmed.


I would never buy a DVD player that cheap. It's obviously a piece of shiat that won't interface correctly with my equipment.

Nice try though.

Next.
 
2005-01-13 10:01:07 PM  
BeerNut

All things being equal most people will go with the lower price, including me.


I understand what you're saying. But, in fact, "lower price" is not the sole indicator for why people buy things where they do. All things are Not "equal"...people who do not shop at Wal-Mart often consider other things which are intangible. Know what I'm saying?
 
2005-01-13 10:04:23 PM  

Here's what Wal-Mart has done to West By God Virginia:



Wal-Mart Culture

 
2005-01-13 10:04:44 PM  
Barraketh: Many Wal Mart jobs do not pay benefits, and are below living wage (living wage being defined, roughly, as an amount that will allow a wage earner to have a family without qualifying for massive amounts of public assistance). The other thing they do is, they define "full time" as meaning they will provide you with 22 or more hours of work a week, which means that the skimpy wages a lot of those employees get add up to even less than they thought signing on (as most people would take a full time week to be 40 hours, or at least 35).

So you end up with families with working members who don't have insurance for their kids, or often are still qualifying for public assistance in the form of food stamps and what have you. Some stores have been known to explain to their new hires how to apply for public assistance when they join up. Well, we all (US taxpayers) pay for that.

When a business pays its employees less than they can live on, or has a situation where it knows many of them are going to be getting public aid, they are socializing their costs while keeping the profits private.

This just bears being made public. It's not only WalMart that does it, either, by any means, but they are certainly symptomatic of the problem, and by dint of their size as the 900-lb gorilla, they drive other stores to the same practices.

Wal Mart usually says that they don't need to provide health benefits because most of their employees are married women getting insurance via their husbands' employers' family plans, supposedly they look for that sort of situation.
 
2005-01-13 10:04:55 PM  
Isn't this the store that dresses old men in plastic bags? Fark has pics to prove it! 01-07-2005
http://mooktrail.com/pictures/walmart.jpg
 
2005-01-13 10:06:20 PM  
Well said, firefly212.
 
2005-01-13 10:06:58 PM  
I don't drink coke just 'cuz it's gross.

/yes, I realize I'm probably in the minority here...
 
2005-01-13 10:09:46 PM  
Fark Coca-Cola too.
 
2005-01-13 10:09:49 PM  
as MelGoesOnTour stated, basic purchasing strategy follows a course whereby the consumer gathers knowledge in products of interest (and / or sellers), compares the knowledge of the available products (and / or sellers), once they've got that knowledge, they feel they have the confidence to make a choice, then they buy the product that they believe most matches their need!

price is a major factor (for differing degrees for different people in different situations), but then you've got other marketing tenets of product, placement, promotion and people
 
2005-01-13 10:11:58 PM  
21-7-b

Unfortunately, this knowledge strategy begins after they have enter the store much of the time. Hence the monopoly.
 
2005-01-13 10:12:40 PM  
http://www.walmartfacts.com/newsdesk/article.aspx?id=747

Text of said ad:

WAL-MART IS WORKING
FOR EVERYONE

Some of our critics are working only for themselves.
--Lee Scott, President and CEO, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

January 13,2005

As one of the world s most visible companies,Wal-Mart expects attention and criticism. When the criticism is warranted,we use it as a tool to improve the way we operate.
But when special-interest groups and critics spread misinformation about Wal-Mart, the public deserves to hear the tr uth. In other words,everyone is entitled to their own opinions about our company, but they are not entitled to make up their own facts.
The truth is Wal-Mart provides great value for customers, opportunities for our workforce,economic suppor t for communities and a helping hand for charities across America. We work hard to make life better for ever yone. Can our critics truly say the same?
Wal-Mart is committed to those who shop with us every day many of whom depend on us to provide value for the products they want at the lowest prices possible. Last year,more than 90 percent of Americans 270 million people chose to shop at Wal-Mart.
Wal-Mart is also working for our associates. It's time to set the record straight with the real facts about Wal-Mart as a place to work, presented by the people who know not by people who presume to know.



Wal-Mart provides good jobs with excellent advancement
opportunities to our 1.2 million U.S.associates.


*This year,we plan to create more than 100,000 new jobs in the United States.It takes a lot of talent to fuel that growth, which in turn offers advancement opport unity for associates who want to run some of our 58 in-store departments or move into management.

*We promote from within. Seventy-six percent of our store
management team started at Wal-Mart in hourly positions.

*Our average wage for full-time hourly store associates such as cashiers,stockers and sales associates is almost twice the federal minimum wage.


*Wal-Mart benefits available to full -and part-time associates include healthcare insurance with no lifetime maximum. Associate premiums begin at less than $40 per month for an individual and less than $155 per month for a family,no matter how large.


*Other benefits include a profit-sharing/401(k)plan, merchandise discounts,company-paid life insurance,vacation pay and pay differential for those in active military ser vice. More than half of our associates own company stock through our associate purchase plan.

*Seventy-four percent of Wal-Marts hourly associates in the
United States work full-t ime.T hats well above the 2040 percent typically found in the retail industry.

*Our workforce is unique in its size and diversityfrom
full-time career professionals to students working their way through college, from senior citizens seeking a break from retirement to people with disabilities.

Given these facts, it is no surprise that more than half of the associates we surveyed said the benefits package, including healthcare,was a very important factor in their decision to accept a position at Wal-Mart .

Thank you for being open to the facts about Wal-Mart .You can learn more at a Web site we are launching todaywww.wal martfacts.com.

Sincerely,
Lee Scott
President and CEO
Wal -Mart Stores,I nc.
 
2005-01-13 10:12:50 PM  
entered
 
2005-01-13 10:13:22 PM  
BransBadgers: Am I feeling a little Badger love? If you know what I mean.


If I wasn't from Wisconsin, I could've taken that the wrong way .... :)

(Was it the Woodman's comment?)
 
2005-01-13 10:15:32 PM  
URL HIX

definitely
 
2005-01-13 10:15:42 PM  
Who the hell goes to a Wal-Mart for bananas?!

binge buyers, I guess. I bet there's a lot of 'while I'm here, ...' mentality.

me, I like to get in, get what I need, and get the hell out! the places all make me anxious. too much space, too much lighting, too many zomboids! I want in and out quickly to get it over with. so, no banana buying for me. but I bet a lot of 'shoppers' enjoy thinking they're getting a good price, so why not get some extras before I leave the store..
 
2005-01-13 10:16:12 PM  
WalMart=common consumer interests at a common location in a common way. It is me....god forgive me. I hate Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 10:16:23 PM  
Fakk:

Yes, but Sam Walton was a big believer in American made products. Since he died, this is no longer the case. What percentage of items in Wal-Mart is made overseas, would you guess? 75% More? Getting more all the time?


But, all the other stores are buying from overseas too. Why not rip on them? how 'bout making it a "Buy American" campaign instead of "Don't shop Walmart"? All that would do is put another store on top and they'd be the new "bad" store.
 
2005-01-13 10:16:29 PM  
oops, Weeners should be bold (not mine)
 
2005-01-13 10:16:59 PM  
People keep saying Wal-Mart has lower prices. Like firefly212, I don't believe it. Everywhere I've seen a Wal-Mart in close proximity to a Target, the Wal-Mart parking lot is half-full while the Target lot is hoppin'. The only Wal-Marts I've seen that have been really successful have been ones far from Target's reach. Just like Wal-Mart killed K-Mart, Target will eventually kill Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-13 10:17:21 PM  
the string 'Weeners' seems to be translated to 'weeners'.

amazing how this new binary system works..
 
2005-01-13 10:18:22 PM  
I'm more of a "don't buy big box if there's an alternative, and certainly not for groceries" guy.
 
2005-01-13 10:18:27 PM  
BeerNut

DarwinEffect

A. Wal-Mart has a certain dvd player for 59.95

B. Mom & Pop has same dvd player for 74.95

Who do you buy the dvd player from? If you chose B you are coming to a battle of wits unarmed.

//Reposting from one of my earlier posts, because I think it challenges your assumption of costs, as the way you presented it includes immediate cost, but excludes the long-term costs. If wits is about thinking here and now about how much money you will have paid for that DVD player in one year, and you chose A, you just volunteered to be ripped off. In all fairness, if you chose B, because of proportionality, you've partially subsidized the idiots who keep choosing A.

Much Love, Firefly

//Now comes the repost

As to minimum wages... it is a price floor, it works like all other price floors, I'm sure you can go read about it on about.com or borrow a high schoolers basic economics book. In an oversimplified nutshell Higher Minimum Wage= Better Jobs, Lower Minimum Wage=More Jobs. The other side of this 'market rate' side is that because we have decided on basic minimum standards of living, the difference between what many wal-mart and other minimum wage employees earn, and that MSL is filled in in many places by government services... so to those of you who worry about paying 175 at the wal-mart for groceries, or 200 at a union store ... dont be so sure you're saving too much, a wad of your cash may be going right back to that wal-mart employee in the form of state-subsidized healthcare, increased hospital charges to cover non-payment by the indigent, food stamps, WIC (or other nutritional assistance), and a variety of other programs for the working poor.

As to the politics of all this... basically up to about 12 an hour, if you make less than that, you can get enough services from the government to actually get about the same goods and quality of goods as someone who does... I support most of those programs because I think people who work should have basic things like food, shelter, and health insurance. That said, I personally prefer to shop at union stores because I would prefer you get the 12 directly from the company, which almost undoubtedly has a more efficient delivery system than the govt. While you may end up with about 12 either way, it would be substantially cheaper to just have companies give you the 12 and cut budgets for some of the programs than have the high overhead of government services attatched to the same standard of living. I think most conservatives would agree that cutting overhead and making delivery more efficient is a good thing, not to mention the ancillary benefit of less government. I also think that most liberals would be happy to see so many people have abundant opportunities to succeed on their own, because in the end, equal opportunity to succeed is what it's all about.
 
2005-01-13 10:18:45 PM  
tsumetai: Are you farking kidding me? There's a store called 'piggly wiggly'?



Unfortunately, yes. It's a chain that's been around for a long time. After a while, you just get used to the silly names (Their slogan is currently "Shop the Pig".)
 
2005-01-13 10:19:13 PM  
Of course, most of the stuff I eat isn't SOLD at WalMart to begin with...
 
2005-01-13 10:19:48 PM  
I guess all these poorly paid workers should rise up and get better jobs then. That would require not blaming Wal-Mart but instead blaming themselves. Bummer!
 
2005-01-13 10:20:30 PM  
*This year,we plan to create more than 100,000 new jobs in the United States.

Doesn't it take 350,000 new jobs per month to keep up with new workers entering the workforce? And WM is how much of the US economy?
 
2005-01-13 10:22:24 PM  
I try not to shop at Wal-Mart unless I don't have any other convenient options - as many others have said, my local Wal-Mart is a nightmare - dirty store, dirty people, ignorant employees, etc.

My main problem with Wal-Mart is that it doesn't give anything back to the community - I'm sure it sponsors some local events & gives some money to charities, but it isn't a "participant". It reminds me of how A&P moved into the Pittsburgh area in the 1960's and put my Grandpa & Grandma's grocery store out of business. Things were a little cheaper, but the difference is that A&P didn't let the underemployed steel workers buy groceries to feed their families on interest-free credit, like my Grandpa did... I'm sure they didn't load up the car and deliver groceries to the sick & elderly customers every week like my Dad did... I'm really sure they didn't give free penny candy & Cokes & tell stories to the kids in the neighborhood, like my Grandpa did... but they were 5%-10% cheaper, so I guess saving six cents on a bottle of ketchup is worth losing those things.

All of you Wal-Mart advocates better think long & hard about what's important - Wal Mart has already expanded into groceries, gas stations, auto repair, banking, etc. In some parts of the country they are starting to sell automobiles. Is it really that far-fetched that they will someday expand into insurance/tech support/web design/brokerage/whatever you do for a living? If there's a profit to be made, they will. Will you be as sympathetic when your clients & customers leave just for the better price?
 
2005-01-13 10:23:24 PM  
"I guess all these poorly paid workers should rise up and get better jobs then. That would require not blaming Wal-Mart but instead blaming themselves. Bummer!"


That does sound like something an anonymous know it all would say.
 
2005-01-13 10:24:13 PM  
Piggly Wiggly was the first of the grocery store to allow you to get your own groceries off of the shelf. Check out the latest Oxford American if you want to know more.
 
2005-01-13 10:24:13 PM  
Shopping at Walmart is a crappy experience and the products
have spiraled down to complete junk. Can't get much brand name anything anymore either - all off-brand Chinese crap.
The people are enough to make me go postal and look like Jerry Springer Rejects.
I cut my spending, only buy durable items I really need and buy them from somewhere I want to do business with.
The other side is the boat-load of ethical issues, bankrupting vendors, labor violations, running local businesses out of town. I voted with my feet and fired Walmart.

BTW: You can get better bargains on better quality at Target, Kohls even Macy's if you know how to shop and compare prices. Our spending volume and dollar amount went
down by NOT shopping at Walmart and shopping elsewhere- go figure!
 
2005-01-13 10:25:15 PM  
ace_of_spades: Interesting you mention A&P - they are widely considered to be the Wal Mart of the 60's. Very similar issues.
 
2005-01-13 10:26:05 PM  
"That does sound like something an anonymous know it all would say."

It is, actually. If workers are so disenchanted with their jobs - maybe they should GET ANOTHER JOB. I'm sure the gas station down the road is hiring.
 
2005-01-13 10:26:49 PM  
tsumetai:
Yep:
I have a bumper sticker from there. It sez: "I'm stickin' with the Pig"
Gets a lot of strange looks outside the South.
/wife won't ride in that car with me
 
2005-01-13 10:26:56 PM  
Fakk:

They just keep on adding to their stock. Soon, there will be NOTHING that Wal-Mart does not sell. Except "immoral" things, like records and books with swear words, and sex toys.



Anyone heard of ALDI ? A grocery store ... sort of ... where you could buy food, a microwave, 10-pc. Ginsu set, a lawnmower, and a 6 ft. inflatable Santa all in one trip. Maybe they're the next Walmart?
 
2005-01-13 10:27:12 PM  
2005-01-13 10:19:13 PM itazurakko

Of course, most of the stuff I eat isn't SOLD at WalMart to begin with...


Where/what do you eat then. I find the local (30 miles away) Walmart to have quality meat, fish, bread and produce at a reasonable price for around here. Like I said, when I move, I'll be able to do better, but not right now.
 
2005-01-13 10:29:06 PM  
Didn't I just see a Wal Mart ad on TV this week promoting the fabulous the health care insurance that company provides for their employees?

No, really. They're actually running that.
 
2005-01-13 10:29:27 PM  
Anonymous,

You do realize that Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the US? Most gas stations I go into only have one or two people working at a time, I think you might have to think a little harder about your solution.
 
2005-01-13 10:29:28 PM  
Wal Mart has already expanded into groceries, gas stations, auto repair, banking, etc. In some parts of the country they are starting to sell automobiles. Is it really that far-fetched that they will someday expand into insurance/tech support/web design/brokerage/whatever you do for a living?

Sounds like communism.
All they need to do is manufacture all the products.
They already distribute, and provide the service of selling.
 
2005-01-13 10:30:37 PM  
People bash Wal-Mart here then follow it up with "I shop at Target insted". How is a store like Target any different from Wal-Mart? Target along with every other retailer uses the same practices as Wal-Mart. What you should say is "I shop at Target because it is less evil than Wal-Mart"
 
2005-01-13 10:31:02 PM  
It is, actually. If workers are so disenchanted with their jobs - maybe they should GET ANOTHER JOB. I'm sure the gas station down the road is hiring.

Somethin' tells me you're just as comfortable as can be tonight, eh?

/enjoy your false sense of security.
//you're next. We're ALL next
 
2005-01-13 10:31:30 PM  
Anyone heard of ALDI?

On the down low....
they are the same company as Trader Joe's.
 
2005-01-13 10:34:05 PM  
"Anonymous,

You do realize that Wal-Mart is the largest employer in the US? Most gas stations I go into only have one or two people working at a time, I think you might have to think a little harder about your solution."

I see lots of entry level IT jobs come up, they pay crappy ($15/hr)....and I've seen people move from retail to these jobs.

Of course, this all requires some effort on their part and some change too. It's easier to blame your life situation on others rather than yourself, especially in the USA.

If you are really interested in improving your situation in life, you will do what is necessary. Alternately, you can just sit there whilst complaining and blaming the other guy.
 
2005-01-13 10:37:42 PM  
Beernut

Target is 30 mins farther from Walmart from where I live. No less ridiculous. It's mostly that the Dollar General, 10 miles away, doesn't have what I want to buy. If I could find some weed in this podunk town I wouldn't want to go to any of these crappy stores and be content to sit home and play some vintage video games.

/wants some Wal-weed
 
2005-01-13 10:38:13 PM  
firefly212- you analyze much more than I can or care to. I understand your arguments to an extent. What it seems to amount to is that the market bears what it bears. What goes around comes around. Almost, what you are saying is: spend what you want to or need to spend, wherever or whatever. It all evens out. Maybe we need to stop thinking about economics and start thinking about family and family emotional needs. What does your grandchild really need to survive...maybe your love and attention. Think about and calculate that.
 
2005-01-13 10:39:04 PM  
I like to go into walmarts wimmens clothing section and fap my seed into the panties on sale there. Could be that I have a couple of mongoloid kids running around born to the wimmen who wear that underwear without washing it first.

I love going into walmart and getting boxes off the shelves and saying... "hmmm, not what I thought it was" and then put it down on the floor in the middle of the aisle.

The only time I go to walmart is usually about 4-5 hours after I eat a bunch of White Castle ratburgers. Plenty of time for the gas to brew.
 
2005-01-13 10:39:35 PM  
Despite your distorted view of reality, there are not an infinite number of good jobs available in this country. Did you know that some people lack the ability to work in IT? What about those that are fulfilling their full potential working as a cashier or stock person? Do they not deserve a decent standard of living?
 
2005-01-13 10:43:01 PM  
Jabba

Wal-farts are the best.
 
2005-01-13 10:44:58 PM  
I miss Bradlee's and Mammoth Mart
 
2005-01-13 10:47:02 PM  
URL_HIX: I eat mostly Japanese food. I can get some basic produce and meat from the "regular" US supermarket (though I don't go to WalMart) but the rest of it I buy at several locally owned "Asian markets" in town, including the corner store half a block from my house.
 
2005-01-13 10:48:48 PM  
BeerNut

some people just like to shop where their mom or friends shop, others might have a had a particularly good or bad experience with a particular store :) shopping isn't rational! i know what you're saying though; but if you factor in all the different reasons why each of us chooses to shop at store a or store b, and the reasons we favor particular products, you'd be looking at millions of variables. like with walmart: to some people walmart's ethical policy or market-share is important, to others the only thing that matter is convenience, to others it could be a mix anything.
 
2005-01-13 10:49:04 PM  
40below:

If you all shopped in the family-owned stores you proclaim you love, it would be Wal-Mart that would be out of business.


As a matter of fact I do. Wally world sucks hind tit. At least at the local stores I get intelligent sales staff that know what they stock and what it cost's, and if they don't have it they can darn sure get it.
 
2005-01-13 10:49:45 PM  
I miss Bradlee's

Ever heard of Zayer's, Ames, or Hills?
 
2005-01-13 10:51:08 PM  
404'd
 
2005-01-13 10:51:30 PM  
I thought everyone had pretty much said everything on this subject but then I realized that no, I DID have something to add!

Help Kill WallyWorld! Shop Costco, the Only Stored Feared by Wal-Mart!

Gotta have respect for the store that has 50% less locations than Sam's and still manages to outsell it.
 
2005-01-13 10:52:32 PM  
How WalMart passes health care costs to YOU

www.ajc.com/business/content/business/0204/27walmart.html

Requires annoying registration, so here is the point:

"Wal-Mart, with 1.4 million U.S. workers, is the biggest private employer in America. When a very wealthy employer passes off to taxpayers what is rightfully a labor force cost, that's a serious public policy problem"

I can tell you the insurance they do offer is teh scuk. It's basically a "catastrophic event" policy, meaning if yo need some serious surgery or something it may help, but it doesn't cover "preventative care" i.e: going to the doctor for a checkup/tests, and the deductables for prescriptions is crap.

No one who has "traditional" HMO/PPO coverage would consider this insurance valuable.
 
2005-01-13 10:52:38 PM  
Shop Wal-Mart, vote republican, stay ignorant, hasten the revolution!

(vote Democrat to slightly prolong the agony)
 
2005-01-13 10:52:51 PM  
itazurakko

Last night, I had a lovely Arame seaweed salad that was purchased at WM. There is only one "Asian" grocery in the closest town to where I live and the food is terribly stale. All I'm saying is that WM is what you make of it if that is all you have. They are the absolute closest acceptable "grocery" to where I live by at least 10 miles.
 
2005-01-13 10:54:41 PM  
Arcangela

I was waiting for someone to bring up Costco. Congrats.
 
2005-01-13 10:57:33 PM  
Ever heard of Zayer's, Ames, or Hills?

Yes I have. Pardon the correction but it's Zayre's. I was hoping someone might remember Mammoth Mart. that store disappeared a long time ago. And don't forget Caldor's.
 
2005-01-13 10:57:47 PM  
The supermarket bidniz generally is an interesting stew of conglomerates. In Southern California there was Lucky and Alpha-Beta, Alpha_Beta then bought Lucky but kept the Lucky name. But, they're Jewel - Jewel is Lucky (Jewel/Osco = Lucky/SavOn, the training videos are the same). They both were bought by Albertson's (no name change), which was American Supermarkets (I think) based in Utah, and now? It's all owned by Royal Ahold, which is based in the Netherlands.

As this goes on, the size of stores increased too, for the same reason that big boxes are getting bigger. Supermarkets won't even consider a store less than 60,000 square feet these days. What does that mean? It means you won't have any shopping downtown, since there's nowhere for it to go. No, you'll have to drive all the way to the cornfields on the edge of town.

Why the drive to combine and get bigger? They all say it's due to WalMart. It's the market share game, again.

All this conglomeration is happening with malls too - one of the biggest chains is Westfield, based in Australia, of all places. They own most of the malls in Chicagoland now, and the last time I visited SoCal they owned all the malls in San Diego too.

Strip malls? You betcha. Now it's not just chains, but groups of allied chains. Old Navy has to be next to a Bed Bath and Beyond, so they can have the sweet "synergy." And so it goes, and all the towns are the same, and all the crap is the same.

/and they were all made out of ticky-tacky, too
 
2005-01-13 10:59:37 PM  
Caldor's.


Yeah, or Lechmer's!
 
2005-01-13 11:00:15 PM  
URL HIX - oh yeah, I'm not saying there's not people for whom WalMart isn't the most rational option. There's plenty of people out there where WalMart is THE game in town. No dissing intended.

It's just MY local (well, on the outskirts of town) WalMart doesn't carry that stuff, while the other stores do, since we have a decent sized Asian population.
 
2005-01-13 11:03:06 PM  
Bought a stereo at Lechmere. They would even haggle on the price. Ah the good old days. Well off to work.
 
2005-01-13 11:03:11 PM  
isn't the most ==> is the most

/my grammar is teh suck
 
2005-01-13 11:09:16 PM  
itazurakko

Hell, it's not even rational, just convenient. I can't wait until I don't have to set foot in a WM again. But I realize that many others are not able to have the same choices of location/lifestyle that I am able to have and they shouldn't have to suffer because of the bad effects of WM being the only store in the area. They do totally suck, but they happen to suck the least where I live, relatively.

/Ain't it a biatch?
 
2005-01-13 11:09:34 PM  
groundhog,

Farwell, fellow remenicer.
 
2005-01-13 11:14:54 PM  
and that's another thing. it's like with clothes (or most things): often the producer doesn't sell the clothes direclty to the consumer, but lets people resell them for them. the reason is that the reseller can better target their customers. they build a market, understand that market, and market to that market. the clothes producer would probably struggle to do that themselves.

in the same way: if you don't support your local small stores, who are marketing directly to you, you will lose them as they go out of business. and then you're stuck with the big stores and whatever mix they decide is most attractive to their customers (normally that is a broad range of products without much specialisation (though this may change (or so it was always predicted) as the internet allows a larger range of products to be held and the big stores will then put even more pressure on the smaller ones with their buying power)
 
2005-01-13 11:15:41 PM  
2005-01-13 08:40:36 PM nerfball

unions kill productivity and have cost americans millions of jobs.


I don't think its quite that simple. You seem to ignore all the millions of lives and families that have had improved lives because of the work of the unions.
However the biggest problem is the unions' hard assed and stupid stance when their employers are faced with major financial problems (like the airline industry). There are quite a few who seem to think that its better to lose jobs than to take a paycut (heck the paycut could be negotiated to be temporary). These are the decisions that give unions their bad rap.

Oh, and don't forget who actually goes to the meetings with the board of the employers to discuss these issues - those workers who have the most seniority. They can't be touched when the layoffs begin, so why would they care? Its the ones who are just starting out and have even much less that are gonna be the first to be axed.
Everyone would be much better off without the kind of unmoving stupidity that is displayed by the auto and airline unions.

/ Just have two cents to spare

 
2005-01-13 11:15:42 PM  
hella.
 
2005-01-13 11:16:32 PM  
My problem with wal-mart is that they are greedy when they have no reason to be. Does anybody seriously think that Wal-Mart would suffer if they started their pay scale at a living wage instead of the below the poverty line minimum wage? Would you even notice the extra 15 cents you would have to pony up each visit to get their employees off of welfare? (less taxes for you).

Personally, I think the rise of wal-mart is a byproduct of our domestic economic policy. Wal-Mart is the poster child for all that is wrong with trickle-down economics Like far to many companies, the employees, customers, and the surrounding community are all valued far less than the stock price. Getting the number higher by any means unnecessary is SOP at a lot of companies. And if a company tries to put its customers and employees before the stock price (Costco) wall street goes into red-haired stepchild mode with them.

Mabey I'm wrong, but from what I see of wal-mart I think their business practices have a net negative effect on our society.
 
2005-01-13 11:20:18 PM  
WalMart is interesting solely for its impressive distribution network. It should be its own country and allowed to expand without limitation by established powers so long as they dedicate a certain percentage of their profits to unrestricted global growth.

I bet WalMart could be one of the greatest mechanisms for furthering the global liberalizing project and the post-liberal project the world has ever seen. But only if we hold a gun to its head.
 
2005-01-13 11:23:16 PM  
itazurakko

Zoned out of the conversation for a while, but what you're describing seems like is more of a problem with minimum wage than with WalMart. I think that minimum wage should be high enough that it over the living wage. And again, I don't see why people work for WalMart if they're that bad. Especially if they don't pay benefits, what is holding people from switching jobs, or working another job part time if they're only working 22 hours a week? They're not risking losing insurance, since they don't have any in the first place...
 
2005-01-13 11:24:19 PM  
I like walmart.
 
2005-01-13 11:28:32 PM  
40below: You people who are too principled to shop there should stop phoning call centres

I don't know what your point is -- we should stop "using" labor of any kind? The trash collectors you speak about make more money than I do working in a brokerage. And I am too principled to shop at Wal-Mart and I worked for years in a farking call center. What the hell does that have to do with anything?

I don't tell people not to shop at Wal-Mart. My mother does, my husband has on the rare occasion. Fine. But I won't shop at Wal-Mart ever again. If that bothers you then you don't have enough in your life to worry about. Get a hobby.
 
2005-01-13 11:34:45 PM  
Nobody ever really does respond to complete thoughts any more. I was looking forward to debate about my post and how wal-mart doesn't really save money, but I guess I'll settle.

Firstly, I would like to thank jmalc for actually taking the time to make his arguement, not just whip out an overblown one-liner.

I guess the best way to reply is point by point:

Your arguement that it doesn't affect your job because it's direct effects are confined to manufacturing and retail competition is bunk. As those people lose their jobs, the US as a whole loses purchasing power, especially given the weakness of the dollar, in addition to having an increased labor pool size, indirectly affects all of us, as downward pressure is applied to labor prices thus exacerbating the failing dollar and compounding the effective rate of inflation by both increasing actual inflation and decreasing purchasing power. When all those retailers and manufacturers can't buy whatever product you take part in the production of, or cant buy what your clients advertise... you'll be in the same pot as them.

//On the other hand, it is a great place to go if I have to pick up something odd that I would have to search other stores to find, and at a great price to boot.//

(The basket is goods that comprise the CPI, in this case it is only measuring those goods in the basket that wal mart carries) Sorry if this doesn't paste well
Umm no, it's actually not such a great price:

Wal-Mart Price Comparison on the Basket
Days since open: Price adjusted average percentage, compared with regional market:
1-90 72.23%
91-180 84.19%
181-270 86.20%
271-360 97.43%
361-450 104.21%
451-540 108.38%

YOY
Y0-Y1 150.08%
Y1-Y2 108.6%
Y2-Y3 108.2%

Thats kind of a yucky way of showing it, but I do policy analysis for a living, so I don't know the fun way of just saying things. I'll give it a whirl, in case the charts dont format well... Wally comes in with a great price, competes until there is no competition, raises prices to well above the previous market prices, and continues to raise prices at a rate higher than the inflation rate. Your great deal for the first 9 months costs you substantially in the long run. I dont know how much you think deodorant costs, but I get mine for 2.59 (its the big old spice high endurance one) at a union store... so if you are saving three bucks on deodorant, more power to ya, but I think it's more likely the illusion of savings has just permeated your mind so much that maybe you aren't saving quite as big as you might think you are. The numbers are based on averages though, so heck, maybe you're an exception, and youre still saving 4-5 percent after a year or two, but it's not likely, as the basics of their pricing structure are central to their business model.

Much Love,
Firefly


WOW, that's nothing like here. Within 1-2 miles of our SuperCenter, there is a target (across the street), schnucks, & dillons. I probably save 30% or more each time I load up on groceries by shopping at WalMart. Comparing exact items to each other: Diapers are $1-2 cheaper per package, 12packs of soda are usually 50-75 cents or more cheaper, bread is cheaper (Sara Lee bread for example $2.00 at WalMart, $2.59 at the other stores..that's a big difference). All the frozen food is much cheaper, usually something that's 4.99 at another store, is 3.50 at WalMart.

The list goes on & on really. If I go & get approx $200 worth of groceries at WalMart..it would have been around $300 at another store. I've got 3 kids who eat a lot, so that's enough for me to keep shopping at WalMart.
 
2005-01-13 11:39:37 PM  
jimmiekaska:

now, i've read and heard enough things about walmart being this big evil corporation...

but WHERE ELSE can you buy BAGGED PINE CONES for $5.95 on XMAS EVE?



HAAHAAAHAAAA !!! Excellent!


/Pine cones? Has Cadott run out of pinecones? :)
 
2005-01-13 11:40:44 PM  
Walmart is near single handedly ruining our economy.

because they are such cheap bastards, over a million people are forced to live off wellfare, medicare, foodstamps, and other domestic aid. How the hell are the jobs walmart provides beneficial at all? That is completely ignoring the fact that it takes SIX people at minimum wage working full weeks to make a single average social security check.

Sure you can get crappy, low end, breaks in a half a year stuff from walmart, but wouldnt a healthy economy and quality merchandise along with better lives for over a million people be better?
 
2005-01-13 11:42:11 PM  
Wal-Mart is a lot like Ashlee Simpson.

They both suck.
 
2005-01-13 11:44:23 PM  
Barraketh - I think it's a problem with the system, not WalMart per se, too. They're just the biggest. Talking about floors (of which the minimum wage is one) is needed.

As for why people work WalMart - sometimes it's the only gig on offer.

The 22 hours isn't always 22 hours. You sign on for full time, you gotta be able to work 40 in case it happens, but it just doesn't always happen, so you end up sitting around. The store won't pay you to sit around - there's some fast food places even that make the employees clock out if the place has some dead time.

Knowing the situation, it might well be better to just sign up for a solid 20 if that's available, yeah. Maybe some people do do that, I don't know.

The people who won't move to prevent losing insurance are more often people higher up (not at WalMart) who do have insurance, like IT people, office people, etc. No one is immune from the job going to India (metaphorically, at least) these days and so the capitalist idea is a place where labor would be more fluid, taking time to retrain periodically, moving from job to job. It's a bit ironic that some of the same people who champion that idea are the same people who say we need to keep this current insurance system, which is at cross purposes with that ideal.

The cost of insurance is hitting companies hard, too, as the premiums keep rising. Plenty of places are understaffed but won't hire more employees (well, full time benefit employees) because they don't want to take on the costs of insurance for them.
 
2005-01-13 11:45:51 PM  
One other thing - people in the suck jobs down on the bottom DO switch jobs often. The turnover rate for those jobs is huge, which is another cost to the company, as they keep having to train new people.
 
2005-01-13 11:46:24 PM  
I buy items at Walmart every now and then and I enjoy their low prices. I have nothing to complain about since they're helping me save my money which I can in turn use for my family or donate to charity. I don't understand why some people are so against that corporation. I think people should get used to businesses getting bigger. I think in ten years, today's Walmart is going to look tiny, by comparison. We're a very new country (globally-speaking). We've only been around for 229 years and have set many benchmarks for other countries around the world. It just follows suit that our own businesses grow just as fast. Capitalism is why our country has been so prosperous. If you don't like it, that's fine... voice your opinion, by all means. But I for one, don't see what all the fuss is about. I think a lot of people have a tendancy to first criticize the leader (whether it be a country, a business, or a person you know in your neighborhood). Perhaps that spite is required for the underdogs to think competitively. I think that same energy wouls be better suited criticizing themselves (or their own business), to be more profitable... otherwise, it's just wasted energy. I mean no disrepect to anyone as everybody's opinions are valid.

/Worries about a lot of farkers who may have high blood pressure just thinking about Walmart.
 
2005-01-13 11:47:15 PM  
I buy from wal's mart! Where else will you get a 5 quarts of Mobil 1 for your sports car for $18 ? I mean, everyone else sells it for $5 a quart!
And how about DVDs or CDs? (ok, mostly pop stuff..)

But the zombies that shop there...well...you will be one...when your old and grey and on a fixed income. Brainwashed by Walton Co and getting a discount on depends.

/Shop Smart. Shop S- Mart.
 
2005-01-13 11:47:19 PM  
CheddarPants

Anybody who shops at Wal-Mart is an idiot.

Or they like low prices. Why should I subsidize an unskilled workers high wages and health care?

When did socialism take over in America?

Not all jobs should be careers.
 
2005-01-13 11:47:47 PM  
"A. Wal-Mart has a certain dvd player for 59.95

B. Mom & Pop has same dvd player for 74.95

Who do you buy the dvd player from? If you chose B you are coming to a battle of wits unarmed."

Will Mom & Pop actually help me if something goes wrong? Will Mom & Pop actually know about the product they're selling? If so, Mom & Pop gets the extra $15.
 
2005-01-13 11:50:38 PM  
I've been a loyal Meijer shopper for over 20 years. The employees are union, and their prices, while slightly higher than WalMart's, are reasonable. Plus, as far as I know they are not predatory like WalMart.
 
2005-01-13 11:52:08 PM  
uclajd: You already subsidize them, through your taxes.

Really the people who use the store ought to pay the costs of the store. Making the public take up the slack is quite the socialization of costs.
 
2005-01-13 11:55:14 PM  
SockMonkeyHolocaust

Great, it's another white male on the internet who thinks its clever to be un-PC.

Yeah, it's much more clever to let someone else doing your thinking for you.

Political correctness, like other totalitarian ideologies, demands absolute purity.
-- James Taranto
 
2005-01-14 12:01:23 AM  
Great, it's another white male on the internet who thinks its clever to be un-PC.

Heh heh... a really un-PC comment ("another white male") intended to curb a supposed un-PC comment. Hmmmm.
 
2005-01-14 12:01:38 AM  
Holy shiat! Did anyone else just see Michael Moore's name flash by in the credits of that pbs video?!



*cough*

what?
 
2005-01-14 12:03:36 AM  
Sam Walton wanted a family oriented store and he's certainly free to "clean up" his products. He's not burning books or forcefully taking away media you would like to have, which is actually censorship

...
No, but WalMart does force major band labels to censor their own work if they want to be on their shelves. For instance, Nirvana's 'Rape Me', which, if I remember correctly, was changed to "Quaif Me"... Not entirely sure what it was changed to...
Anyway, on top of that, I work at a Suncoast, and have had people try to 'return' Sopranos box sets that don't show up in our system, and it's not until we look at the parental warnings that we realize it's been censored. Excuse me, but The Sopranos is a vulgar, dirty show. Censoring it should make the season all of ten minutes at most... Wal Mart forces censored versions onto their shelves. Without labelling them overtly as such, so you'll buy them without realizing they're censored!
 
2005-01-14 12:13:24 AM  
Wal-Mart takes out 100 full-page ads in PR blitz

Chuan-tzu: "A man that does good in earnest is silent. A man that does ill, in effort to prove otherwise, shouts of his virtue from the highest mountaintop."
 
2005-01-14 12:16:30 AM  
Shimori

Am I the only one that noticed how poorly that guy fielded the questions but how well he recited his scripted rebuttals? That's not a guy who can think on his feet, that's a money who's earning his banana tonight. You might want take a step back and pick up on subtle cues such as these and investigate just a tiny bit deeper into what you consider to encompass the meaning of censorship, and also the vehicles by which you recieve your information. My monitor might be Chinese, but I didn't buy it from Wal-Mart.
 
2005-01-14 12:16:48 AM  
silverpig:

Doesn't matter if they took out whole sections of every major paper in the U.S. for 10 years- all their spin doesn't change the fact that they are just plain bad for U.S. business. On the other hand, they are great if you are a SE Asian manufacturer...'buy american' my ass. Fark Wal-Mart.

If you don't agree, you may want to go to watch this:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

It sure was an eye-opener for me.


Jesus. I just finished watching that. I think I'm going to throw up. I had no idea.
 
2005-01-14 12:17:08 AM  
SDRR:

I can tell you the insurance they do offer is teh scuk. It's basically a "catastrophic event" policy, meaning if yo need some serious surgery or something it may help, but it doesn't cover "preventative care" i.e: going to the doctor for a checkup/tests, and the deductables for prescriptions is crap.
No one who has "traditional" HMO/PPO coverage would consider this insurance valuable.



Depends on who you talk to.... there's always a better insurance option somewhere, but Walmart's insurance is much better than many of the places that actually do offer insurance. Where I work now has a much better option, but Walmart's (when I worked there) wasn't bad. In fact, I think it was more beneficial to someone with kids than to someone single like me.

I'm always amazed by those who seem so "choosy" about their insurance. Many in America are just happy to have insurance. Not every place offers it. And some people have to take the job they can get, not necessarily the job they want (education, skills, availability, area/region, etc.)

BTW (just to fuel the fire), Walmart is one of few major companies to offer management positions to people who don't have a Bachelor's or above. They value experience and training over education ....


/argue on ....
 
2005-01-14 12:21:49 AM  
tukatz:

But, all the other stores are buying from overseas too. Why not rip on them? how 'bout making it a "Buy American" campaign instead of "Don't shop Walmart"? All that would do is put another store on top and they'd be the new "bad" store.

How about we do both?

Watch the Frontline special and you might see why Wal-Mart deserves to be targeted.

I'm still in shock.
 
2005-01-14 12:23:37 AM  
McDork: Hello? Hellllloooooo?

Hmph. Must be off to the Walmart.


Actually, I was at Target. My baby needed formula.

And just so you know I don't shop at Wal-Mart [regularly] and it's not because of how they operate or that they are "evil".

My reasons:

- Stores are messy no matter when you go.
- Employees, for the most part, are rude - but that can happen anywhere.
- Sam Walton's merchandising philosophy of "stack 'em high and watch 'em fly" forces the stores to place items in any available space. When's the last time you saw a clutterd aisle or merchandise up to the legal limit (18" from the fire sprinklers in CA) at Target? This philosophy alone makes the stores look unkempt.

For those of you who don't know, those 1'x1' tiles on the floor equal dollar signs. Every store keeps track of how much money they make down to the square foot.

I know Wal-Mart's prices are cheaper, but for the most part it's just cents ($19.99 at Target vs. $19.74 at Wal-Mart). I worked for Target and Wal-Mart and saw more corruption at Target. Best Buy kept us locked in after clocking out, sometimes up to an hour, so the store managers could "walk the store". They are now being sued, and I'm part of the class action suit.

Those that have never worked for Wal-Mart or had their only retail experience there always seem to be the ones to biatch and moan. As I said before, retailers are in it for the money. You are a dollar sign to them. You think they don't have sweatshops in Bangladesh, where some of Target's clothes are made? If they do you can bet nobody will be interested because it isn't Wal-Mart.

Retail's a biatch, dude. Accept it.
 
2005-01-14 12:25:25 AM  
Wal-Mart sucks ass. The last thing I got from one was a computer chair for my dorm. The damn thing didn't come with any screws, so we (my parents and I, this was on moving day) went back to Wal-Fart and got the screws.
 
2005-01-14 12:27:12 AM  
altinos:

2005-01-13 11:47:47 PM altinos

"A. Wal-Mart has a certain dvd player for 59.95

B. Mom & Pop has same dvd player for 74.95

Who do you buy the dvd player from? If you chose B you are coming to a battle of wits unarmed."

Will Mom & Pop actually help me if something goes wrong? Will Mom & Pop actually know about the product they're selling? If so, Mom & Pop gets the extra $15.




In reality, an item like this - regardless of where it's from - would have to be shipped back to the manufacturer for repair. The good point, however, is that Walmart will generally take it back and either give you your $$ back or give you another one .... then they absorb the cost of sending it back for repair. Even in the "Uh, I didn't do that" cases of .... say, a PB & J sandwich getting shoved into the VCR by a 3 year old, Walmart will refund or replace in most cases. (Yep, seen the PB & J incident -- not pretty).
 
2005-01-14 12:27:43 AM  
tukatz:

Anyone heard of ALDI ? A grocery store ... sort of ... where you could buy food, a microwave, 10-pc. Ginsu set, a lawnmower, and a 6 ft. inflatable Santa all in one trip. Maybe they're the next Walmart?

Yeah. And COMPUTERS, too! What the hell is up with that? Just stick to the dang groceries, Aldi. Yeesh.
 
2005-01-14 12:28:46 AM  
I used to wonder why someone would buy a piece of crap product just because it was $3 cheaper than a quality product.

I finally figured it out:

Shopping = Entertainment

Walmart's success isn't about offering poor consumers lower prices, it's about offering a compelling entertainment package.

Bargain hunting is a pastime.

What use is a year supply of pickles? No matter how cheap, they're useless. Why not pay a few bucks more and get a quality product that will last longer? Or how about a few bucks more just for the convenience of having those pickles sliced? It might actually be cheaper since you'll save so much time slicing those stupid pickles.

What's the point in buying a crappy lock that won't last a month? For a little more cash you can buy a well-made lock that'll last years.

Why buy food that is so processed, so lacking in nutrition, that you'll eat much more of it than you would if it were of higher quality? If you buy higher quality food you will enjoy it more, you'll be less likely to gain weight, and you'll be healthier. You might even save money in the long run since you'll buy less for the same amount of nutrition.

People enjoy looking for bargains. People enjoy shopping. Walmart is about entertainment, not value. The arguments about helping poor people are just stupid. Poor people would save money by shopping elsewhere.

I demand a study.
 
2005-01-14 12:30:59 AM  
Firefly, you're exactly right about price undercutting, and in fact it was quite an issue in my area after a regional retailer (and the most notable competition holdout to WM) finally went out of business, and the price of three local WalMarts were shown to have a significant increase in average good prices, but I suppose I can only ask, what CAN we do about this? A major publicity campaign against Wal Mart? I guess it couldn't hurt, but then the revenues go to Target, or Costco? Perhaps K-mart? At what point does organized sales cease to be a burden? When will the Mom and Pops become the evil entity? I suppose I'm only reminded of the ending to South Park's Wal Mart episode.

As a student of Public Policy, I'm very interested in the thoughts of a Policy analyst, because it seems like the only plausible solution that has been floated is getting China to untether their yuan and let free market forces act on it. Since China has little incentive to do this, and since Snow seems intent on using nothing but the "I'm gonna hold my breath until you do" technique, what can the little guys and local municipalities do? Somehow, I doubt WM will accept Oakland's ban, considering there's a buy 2 get 1 free on corporate lawyers at WM.

And URL HIX: I do vote my own interests. It's not unheard of for a GOPer to vote split ticketed, even with Nader under one of the columns. However, just as many moderate Republicans are put off by current leadership and strongarming tactics, there's still a problem with some dems assuming all Republicans are whole heartedly behind these latest antics. Some Republicans feel the way they do after years of pragmatic diplomacy under a democratic majority. If this same situation shapes the Democratic party similarly after a few years, then we'll have a talk.

And to whoever asked about WM's impact on the economy, WM contributes 2% to the National GDP. Now I'll let someone else argue over whether this is truly a contribution.
 
2005-01-14 12:31:32 AM  
nerfball: wal-mart is the enemy.

(i believe this and i'm a republican)


This is a great day for Fark.

After so much political bickering, we have finally found something that (most) Americans can agree with.

/Never, ever thought that I'd see Weaver95 and nerfball agree with something I did...
 
2005-01-14 12:35:10 AM  
I just finished a shift in the walmart corporate tech center - (thankfully, I am only a contractor, not an employee) - the email message for this effort was hilarious - and the website they put up was even funnier...
//waiting for the results of an interview with a real employer
 
2005-01-14 12:38:28 AM  
Ah, the fair maidens of department store checkouts past, the LaSchelles and the Mertyls of my youth, from whom my Mother purhased the choicest of fineries so skillfully woven by Members Only, by Barricuda and by British Knights, those sweet women all wear the blue-and-white of Wal-Mart now. The formica cathedrals of Capitalism in which they were ordained, Zayres, Bradlees, Ames and Woolworths', have been razed by the same unsympathetic hand that once raised them high...
 
2005-01-14 12:46:18 AM  
Fakk:

tukatz:

But, all the other stores are buying from overseas too. Why not rip on them? how 'bout making it a "Buy American" campaign instead of "Don't shop Walmart"? All that would do is put another store on top and they'd be the new "bad" store.

How about we do both?



How 'bout trying to promote "Buy American" and mention ALL the stores/companies that buy from overseas?

I worked at Kmart AND Walmart during my "college years". Both have bad practices .... and good things. Except for the current financial differences between Kmart & Walmart, they're the same type of company. Same philosophies, same types of workers, same goals ..... Kmart just lost the battle with Walmart .... and probably learned something in the process. I've talked with people from other stores too....from salesfloor all the way up to management .... all these stores are the same.

I believe .... If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there. Obviously enough people do like them to put it on top.
 
2005-01-14 12:50:16 AM  
Interesting(?) note:

I worked at a Walmart during the "final crash" of Kmart. Kmart had been slipping for a while, but one significant thing did them in. They started a campaign to compete with the Walmart "Always low prices" campaign. They picked (if I remember the actual number) 12,000 items that the 2 store chains both sold, then lowered the prices of all those items slightly under Walmart's listed price. Bad strategy, IMO, if you're barely hanging on anyways. Walmart found out and simply lowered their prices on those items even lower .... temporarily taking the losses so Kmart couldn't promote their newest idea. Kmart lost a lot of money on that one ... and never recovered.

**** They should've (again IMO) concentrated more on "upping" their customer service, making better commercials, and slowly working their way back up. Kmart had just adopted the "Point of Sale" inventory system that Walmart had ... which, given time, would've helped them out considerably. I think some exec. got nervous when their numbers started dropping and made a hasty decision.
 
2005-01-14 12:52:05 AM  
tukatz:

How 'bout trying to promote "Buy American" and mention ALL the stores/companies that buy from overseas?

I worked at Kmart AND Walmart during my "college years". Both have bad practices .... and good things. Except for the current financial differences between Kmart & Walmart, they're the same type of company. Same philosophies, same types of workers, same goals ..... Kmart just lost the battle with Walmart .... and probably learned something in the process. I've talked with people from other stores too....from salesfloor all the way up to management .... all these stores are the same.

I believe .... If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there. Obviously enough people do like them to put it on top.


Seriously, go watch the Frontline piece. Did Target go to court on the side of Chinese companies to help them win a case against an American manufacturer? Did K-Mart? Toys "R" Us? Best Buy?

I don't think so - but Wal-Mart sure as heck did.

Most people don't "like" them, people like the damn prices.
 
2005-01-14 01:02:40 AM  
Ceteris paribus surrenders
 
2005-01-14 01:10:06 AM  
I used to work the returns desk at Target, and I would always get one of the two following comments:

1. "Wal-Mart doesn't require you to have a receipt! Can't you just gimme my money?"
2. "Man, Target is so much classier than Wal-Mart. I don't feel trashy shopping here, they have designer crap."

I've also visited the ad agency that does the Wal-Mart commercials. You know, the whole, "Our family is SOOOO BUSY! We have like twelve kids and they are all involved in a million different after school activities! That, on top of the fact that my husband and I both have six siblings apiece, who all have another shiatload of kids, makes it SOOOO HAAAARD for us to shop during the holiday season! But Wal-Mart makes it SOOOO EASY!!!" Ugh. I felt like firebombing the place.

Anyway, those silent Target ads (the ones where you don't even realize it's Target until the end, when they show the bullseye) are teh pwnz0r to the nth power.
 
2005-01-14 01:12:30 AM  
I just saw one of their ads. You know a company is pretty farkin racist when they don't even realize how racist their ad is.

It's like, "This community was a farked up mexican community until Walmart came in. Now it's all better. Without Walmart, it was just a farked up mexican community.

Now those wetbac...erm...mexican....um mexican-amer....erm...latinos...are just like REAL Americans, buying plastic crap made by slave laborers in China."
 
2005-01-14 01:16:53 AM  
My wife works overnight at WalMart and she biatches every morning when she gets home about how much she dislikes her job- until payday rolls around that its.

Besides if you work there or are a family member of an associate you get an additional 10% off their EDLP (not counting food items) thanks to their associate discount card. Woo.
 
2005-01-14 01:28:47 AM  
"This community was a farked up mexican community until Walmart came in. Now it's all better. Without Walmart, it was just a farked up mexican community.

White Man's Burden...or Everyday Low Prices?
 
2005-01-14 01:29:31 AM  
Shop locally!
 
2005-01-14 01:42:55 AM  
What I find strange is those folks who cry about no affordable housing or affordable healthcare for the low income families hate the place that provides affordable food, clothing, and other amneties of life for those same people.
 
2005-01-14 01:50:18 AM  
EXACTLY tukatz! most people will pay for those things.

Many of the small businesses that fold when a WalMart or other chain store move in probably deserve to fold.

I have a small hardware store near me. The guy has about anything you would need hardware wise, but he also rapes people on price. He charges $5 for a light switch I can get for .69 at Home Depot. I understand his costs are higher, but I don't believe they are 7 times higher.

I have never worked at WalMart, so I don't know what they pay or offer, but a job is a choice, you can leave at any time.

I did work at Home Depot for a few months last year. I'm guessing HD pays a bit better, but from the sounds of it their management is about the same as WalMart's. Employee turnover at HD is horrendous, at least at the store where I worked. Even w/ starting part time wages of $10/hour they were desperate for employees. If you could pass the drug test, walk, and speak a little English, you were in.

Had to laugh over one incident. Asst Manager making a big speech about how women make most home improvement decisions, and how we needed to keep the store clean, blah, blah ,blah....When I brought up the point that the parking area was a shiat hole, and don't the customers have to walk through the lot before coming in, reply was "We don't worry about that, that's a problem for the shopping center management."

DOH!
 
2005-01-14 01:54:35 AM  
ACCORDianate

"My wife works overnight at WalMart and she biatches every morning when she gets home about how much she dislikes her job- until payday rolls around that its.

Besides if you work there or are a family member of an associate you get an additional 10% off their EDLP (not counting food items) thanks to their associate discount card. Woo."

That's nice, but if this woman was your girlfriend you'd get
jack shiat.

/goddam conservative bastards walmart
//pissed off after receiveing a "censored" 8-Mile DVD from Wal-Mart as a gift.
//that was over two years ago...still bothers me
 
2005-01-14 01:59:42 AM  
Good point Halpass.

Sort of like gov't. I live in the Wash DC suburbs.

Seems all of the local counties are up in arms about affordable housing for lower income families. Then they send out tax assessments and bills. I know people that saw their property taxes go up 60-70%.

I guess it is a matter of "we want low cost housing so we can legally push out the poor by taxing them out of the area"! Guess that is a lot more PC than just saying "we don't want poor people here".

BTW...not that it really matters, but all of the county councils in this area are liberal and democratic controlled, so don't blame it on Bush.

//also not a trickle down effect due to revenue losses from other sources, VA has a billion dollar surplus right now.
 
2005-01-14 02:11:59 AM  
You know the rottening putrid crap at the bottom of a landfill? Walmart is just below there.

Fark Walmart those farking $#@%%@$@!
 
2005-01-14 02:31:59 AM  
[thread sidetrack]

itazurakko:
"The supermarket bidniz generally is an interesting stew of conglomerates ......"

You make some interesting points, but note that Albertson's (NYSE:ABS) is not owned by Ahold (NYSE:AHO).

The Albertson's complex is: Albertsons, Albertsons Express, Albertsons-Osco, Albertsons-Sav-on, Jewel, Jewel-Osco, Acme, Sav-on Drugs, Osco Drug, Max Foods, Super Saver Foods, Shaw's and Star Markets.

The Ahold complex is: Stop & Shop, Giant-Landover, Giant-Carlisle. Tops, BI-LO, Bruno's have been/are being sold.

[resume thread]
 
2005-01-14 02:55:17 AM  
Hur hur hur, I hates Wal-Mart because it's "Cool and Trendy" to do so.
 
2005-01-14 02:55:56 AM  
I'm glad that I live in a community that has some choice. When I lived in Plattsburgh, NY (Small city near the Adirondacks and Canadian border) there was literally no choice but Walmart. They had two Ames stores, but they closed when the company went under. Everyone shopped at Wallyworld. They expanded it around the time I was moving out of town and I couldn't believe it. It took me 15 minutes to walk from one end of the store to the other. I kept thinking "where the hell is the lumber yard?!" It was ridiculous. Now that I don't live in P'burgh, I don't shop at Walmart any more. Simple as that. The only time I will ever go there is if nothing else is open, which doesn't happen where I am now.
 
2005-01-14 03:22:38 AM  
After so much political bickering, we have finally found something that (most) Americans can agree with.

Yeah, wal-mart sucks. Or rather, wal-mart thumbing thier noses at labor laws sucks. If I gotta play by the rules, you can be DAMN sure EVERYONE is gonna play by the rules.

But that just might be the gamer in me talking. I hate rulebreakers, cheaters and rules lawyers.
 
2005-01-14 04:48:13 AM  
Wal-mart pays its workers so awfully that it costs local governments more in welfare and medicare and medicaid than it adds back to the economy.
 
2005-01-14 04:49:33 AM  
im poor,wallmart prices insure that i can feed my kids.
i laugh at america's capitalist runaway mentality.

where's your prophet now biatches?

/loves halo2
 
2005-01-14 04:58:47 AM  
I own a business that competes with wal-mart quite successfully because we offer something wal-mart can't -- service after the sale. We charge a little more but our customers realize coming to us instead of wal-mart is worth a few extra dollars. I really have no problem with them -- at least in my area the store are usually clean, the employees freindly. I do have a few questions for the WM bashers, though:
1. How much should a cashier or stock-boy make
per hour? $15 (that's $600 for a 40 hr week)? I know plumbers and skilled laborers that don't make that much...
2. Wal-Mart sell mostly foreign made products. True, but so does every other retail outlet...
3. Wal-Mart ruins small business -- only if that small business fails to adapt. Success in business does not always mean selling for the lowest price -- you have to offer something extra and convince your shoppers of the difference. The bitterness of poor service remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.


That being said, I don't love Mal-Mart personally, but around here we a limited by a lack of options. There is only one Target (which I prefer) but its 15 miles away but there are wal-marts every five miles or so. The local independent grocery and hardware stores close up around 9 pm (we do most of our wal-mart shopping at night). But there are several things I won't buy at Wal-Mart: electronics, cds/movies, vidya games, and clothes.

peace.
 
2005-01-14 05:32:26 AM  
Dmegs: //pissed off after receiveing a "censored" 8-Mile DVD from Wal-Mart as a gift.



Don't be upset ... whatever was cut out or censored wouldn't have saved that movie anyways.
 
2005-01-14 07:36:29 AM  
Shop Wal-Mart, if you support Chinese communism.
 
2005-01-14 09:33:17 AM  
I love the latest Wal-Mart commercial. It tries to convince you that when Wal-Mart moves into your town, your local businesses boom rather than bust. It took me about five minutes before I could stop laughing after seeing that.
 
2005-01-14 10:11:04 AM  
There are many, many, many small towns in which Wal-Mart is the ONLY option for anything outside of groceries. I live in such a town. The Wal-Mart here is not a supercenter (yet - they are building one right now, though). If Wal-Mart were to disappear from this town, this place would degenerate into a TRUE living hell. There is NO entertainment here. Half of the kids here are on hard drugs as it is, because there is so little else to do. Take away a place to buy DVDs and CDs and other forms of entertaining distraction, and GOD ONLY KNOWS what would happen to this little shiathole. I do not believe the local business owners have either the desire or the inclination to provide these things outside of the "sanitary" conditions that Wal-Mart pretty much ensures. On the main highway (which contains 90% of our businesses), there are 15 fast food restaurants, 8 banks, and 3 furniture stores. People who start businesses here seem to be interested in little else. I have seen many towns all over America which seem to suffer from these same conditions, and I can't, for the life of me, think of how that can be changed.

Just sayin' - there isn't always a choice, and I somehow doubt that the places where there IS a signifigant choice are the ones keeping Wal-Mart's sales booming.
 
2005-01-14 10:34:32 AM  
I'll just throw some thoughts onto the bottom of this thread where they won't be read ANYWAY, but still:

Corporations aren't supposed t obe interested in the welfare of countries, they should be focused on creating a profit for themselves.

Governments are supposed to be the referee's and rulesmakers for the playing field that the corporations play on.

Walmart is not guilty of a great many of the things people accuse them of, they are merely supremely crafty and innovative at abusing the rules as they are currently written.

Clinton's opening of the China trade channel gave rise to this. China's ability to artifically supress teh value of their currency makes it profitable. Bush has been essentially 'bought-off' by the Corporations who have profited so unimaginably from these arrangements, so that his administration will NOT close the trade channel or force China to reset their economy fairly.

Target and others are JUST as guilty as Walmart, Walmart is merely better at the game, and now that it is SO huge, it has gotten even better.

Some compnies are rebelling. Some toy companies, for example, are withholding some flagship products from them, only selling them through other distros. The only thing we common folk can do is vote in new officials (Kerry wasn't hot on this either though, you would have to have voted Lib) and boycott large corporations.

/Trying my best.
//Voted Lib (blue stater)
///Only spend about 10% of household goods budget at Walmart
 
2005-01-14 10:40:34 AM  
misterman

"Just sayin' - there isn't always a choice, and I somehow doubt that the places where there IS a signifigant choice are the ones keeping Wal-Mart's sales booming."

Oh, but you DO have a choice: MOVE!

I realize that the majority of the population doesn't WANT to move, but if the area you live in is so desolate, pick up your things and move to an area where there IS industry, restaraunts, and stuff to do.

Nobody is forcing you to live where you do, but alot of people are just lazy and don't like change, and that's what picking up your family and moving to another town means.

But, I agree with Cheddarpants, if you have a couple of different stores, like Target and Kmart, to shop at, but choose Walmart, you ARE an idiot.

I'm a Target shopper, because Walmart hires "Special Ed" students and old people to work the checkout, they're isles are narrow, filthy, and cluttered with clearance junk and unpacked inventory they don't have room for on the shelves.

AAAAAAND... you can't find stuff because they hired a bi-polar blind guy to design the layout of their departments!

(Who in the hell came up with the bright idea of putting cargo tie-down straps in the "SPORTING GOODS" department, and since when did a 13" Magnavox TV qualify as "underwear"?!)

Walmart is where the hillbillies shop.
 
2005-01-14 11:03:17 AM  
in high school i was caught shop lifting from walmart. I had $245 worth of merch on my person. the security guy tells me im the reason that they have to raise prices. confused i ask him i thought prices were always falling. thats when i was told to "live in the real world smart ass punk."

/i could have got away but decided not to abandon girl who was with me that also got caught
//didnt feel bad then about stealing
///dont feel bad now
////its real easy to steal from stores
/////dont do it anymore
//////whats the limit on allowable slash comments?
///////just wondering
 
2005-01-14 11:08:07 AM  
Mike - yeah.. i don't care about my family, friends, and roots in this town at all. I'm gonna leave it all behind and move to a city just so I can buy Target's $2.00 shampoo instead of Wal-Mart's $1.85 shampoo. Makes since to me. In fact, maybe everyone in small underdeveloped towns should make a mass exodus to the nearest city. How'd that be?

As far as being lazy and not liking change, I should tell you that I've lived in 8 states, and spent considerable time in more than that. Afraid of change, I ain't, my friend. I just belong here for now.

As for the rest of your post, it is simply ignorant judgemental bullshiat that barely deserves comment.
 
2005-01-14 11:10:07 AM  
Oh, and by the way, the people who are part of Walmart's ...
*ahem*....

"exploited"...workforce, CHOOSE TO WORK THERE!

If don't like the wages, the benefits, or the working conditions, they can QUIT!

Nobody is forcing them to work there.

Yes, I think Walmart is for hillbillies, but it is NOT an "evil corporation", they DON'T "exploit" anybody, and anyone who believes this shiat is a lazy stubborn retard who doesn't WANT to do what's necessary to EARN the life they think they're entitled to.
 
2005-01-14 11:11:06 AM  
ignore my spelling errors.. i'm coming down from a pizza binge
 
2005-01-14 11:32:49 AM  
Demographic I am not a hillbilly. I am not some toothless mongoloid with B.O. My wife and I both make a good living.

BTW, What consititues filthy for some of you--A piece of trash on the floor?

As for other options given above:
Kmart-----Prices on clearance as still higher than Walmart. Less Selection too.

Target---closest one is 60 miles away. We will drive there sometimes to look for clothes for the kids to start school and the summer with.

Kohl's--too expensive.

Shopko--don't have one.

Woodman's--don't have one

Best Buy--I'll buy a DVD or piece of electronics from whichever is cheaper.

Circuit City--had one but it closed down. Closest one is 60 miles away.

SuperValu--don't have it.

Radio Shack--would only need batteries from them. cheap electronics that break easily have been my experience.

Sears--only to shop for major appliances.

Staples--don't have one.

Office Max--had one right beside the Circuit City but it left too.

Bed Bath & Beyond---too expensive for soap. It's in the mall so they are more expensive.

Piggly Wiggly--don't have one.

Family Owned IGA stores---produce isn't as fresh as Walmart's, not as much selection in some items, more expensive.
 
2005-01-14 11:34:38 AM  
funme

Like I said, I'm a policy analyst, so I really really hope people don't all of a sudden think they don't need to think about economics. I wasn't trying to say it's a wash both ways, what I was trying to get at is that with higher government overhead on the services received that it may actually cost more.

jmalc

The only way to really stop them is to not shop there from the beginning, continue to patronize your usual stores, and remember how you got by before they built a wal-mart.

As to the policy part. The US isn't really in a position to press China on floating the yuan. Despite being their largest trading partner, their current holdings in US public debt and private investment in the US give them a unique ability to dump so many USD into the market that they could cause a 1 week shift of nearly %18 percent in the dollar, given the likely tailspin effect and encouragement that would offer other nations to dump, it's a big stick they are carrying. Given the likely percentage of the SS bond/t-bill auction, their stick is only going to get bigger in the near future. So basically, they have us by the balls, so we should continue to make nice with them, while at the same time limiting our deficits so we can take some of their leverage away.

Your number is just a little off, its much closer to 3% of US GDP.

P.S. Good luck with the public policy studies, it takes quite a bit of time and doing to get a good job outside the corporate world in economics.

beanpole
1) Depends on where you are, in Oklahoma, a good wage for that job would be around 8-9 an hour. Here in NYC, about 10-12 an hour.
2) Retail is a big industry, given the exodus of US manufacturing jobs because of price competition with low-wage and in some cases slave-labor utilizing nations, I think Wal-Mart has exacerbated the problem. (Personally I think this part is a trade policy issue for the govt. more than some wishful thinking about corporate ethics.)
3) Service isn't all the difference, if you are dirt poor and only making 5.15 an hour, the utility of even one dollar you save is really high.

MisterMan-
How did they get things before?

Svensta

True, but countries are supposed to be interested in their own health, and should be looking to create long-term economic stability, as well as meet their stated social goals.

True.

Guilty, oh, if you mean like the hiring of firms they knew used illegal immigrants to clean their stores at everyday low values... When the DOJ says they have internal memos indicating so, I believe them.

Yup, Clinton was wrong, he thought free trade would open social ties, and bring human rights. It's a nice thought, but this isn't free trade, and China still isn't working on a capitalist model, as evidenced by their banking system.

Again with the guilt. Oy. Wal-Mart spends 78% per year per hourly employee as Target does. Indirect damage resultant of trade policies may only be a scaled difference, but the direct damage of lower wages and purchasing power on a per capita basis is not.

I think at the core of this problem lies the Taft-Hartley act, but seeing as that's fairly dry and non-sensational stuff, I doubt we will fix it any time in the near future.

Much Love,
Firefly
 
2005-01-14 11:37:19 AM  
According to the most recent Fortune 500 list, the top two retailers were WalMart, then Target. If I recall correctly, Target took in just under US$50 billion in revenue. Walmart took in just under US$250 billion. That's a US$200 billion and 400% difference between the top two. Now that's what I call scary.
 
2005-01-14 11:37:30 AM  
worshipper1: My mistake. I knew it went up to Albertson's, mistook from there.

Here (central IL) we've got Schnuck's and County Market as well as Jewel. Then there's Cub... Cub Foods and County Market are both Neimann, I think.

Is Schnuck's originally from St. Louis? I wonder because the stickers on the bathroom windows in our local one telling employees to wash their hands all have St. Louis department of health on 'em.
 
2005-01-14 11:40:53 AM  
I a college student working throught college was working at walmart got fired during december over an argument that a coworker started... that biatnch still works there.
 
2005-01-14 11:41:36 AM  
firefly212
MisterMan-
How did they get things before?


I don't know. I'm 27 years old, and was born here - and I can't remember a time when there wasn't a Wal-Mart here. My guess is that the technology boom in the last few decades has created a demand for things (things that Wal-Mart happens to offer) that people here simply didn't give a rat's ass about before. For other things, people were probably content shopping at the old Woolworth's (which is long gone).
 
2005-01-14 11:48:47 AM  
misterman

"Mike - yeah.. i don't care about my family, friends, and roots in this town at all. I'm gonna leave it all behind and move to a city just so I can buy Target's $2.00 shampoo instead of Wal-Mart's $1.85 shampoo. Makes since to me."

You're comparison is ridiculous and totally misses the point:

If you CHOOSE to REFUSE to leave your hometown, just because you have ..."roots and family"..., then you CHOOSE to allow those EMOTIONAL ties dictate your own success.

Therefore, your CHOICE to stay close to your family and roots just dictated your circumstance, which is NOT Walmart's fault.

They aren't forcing you to be so emotionally attached to the town you grew up in.

YOU chose to stay there.

Walmart is a business in business to make money.

If you're family and town are more important to you than making money, then don't biatch when you DON'T make alot of it.
 
2005-01-14 11:50:31 AM  
Not to mention that I do live about an hour's drive away from Memphis.. so if there's something you absolutely have to have, and Wal-Mart doesn't have it.. it isn't too terribly inconvenient to make the trek to Memphis... but for everyday stuff, who's gonna do that?
 
2005-01-14 11:52:16 AM  
cerealfan

"That's a US$200 billion and 400% difference between the top two. Now that's what I call scary."

Why is it "scary"?

Its called "capitalism", and it works.

Look it up.
 
2005-01-14 11:54:47 AM  
Mike.. what does any of what i said have to do with success and making money? I was just pointing out that there isn't always a reasonable choice. The initial post (which seems to have raised your ire) was not a complaint, but rather it was intended as a possible explanation as to why Wal-Mart is the success story it is. It's a quick way for simple small town hillbillies such as myself, my family, and my friends, to fulfill our mundane household needs without hassle. Yes. I live here because I choose to. What does that have to do with anything?
 
2005-01-14 11:54:56 AM  
misterman

"Not to mention that I do live about an hour's drive away from Memphis.. so if there's something you absolutely have to have, and Wal-Mart doesn't have it.. it isn't too terribly inconvenient to make the trek to Memphis... but for everyday stuff, who's gonna do that?"

Then MOVE closer to Memphis!

You aren't entitled to having everything convenient for you just because you don't want to move.

If you choose to live in an area where there isn't a whole lotta choice, don't biatch when you have to travel a ways to get to a place where there is.
 
2005-01-14 11:55:19 AM  
I dont buy my steak or hamburger at walmart... united supermarkets has way better its not already prepackage they slice and dice it at the store.
 
2005-01-14 11:55:50 AM  
Mike. Please stop using my oxygen. I don't want to share with you anymore.
 
2005-01-14 11:57:59 AM  
With ground beef you are definitely better off buying it ground at your local supermarket. I wouldn't trust buying the stuff they ship pre-packaged from IBP and the like, no way.
 
2005-01-14 12:02:27 PM  
misterman

"Mike.. what does any of what i said have to do with success and making money? I was just pointing out that there isn't always a reasonable choice."

My point is, you can't define what a "reasonable"...choice even is, because noone is guaranteed, nor entitled ANY convenience, just because they think they should be!

You don't like the fact that Walmart is as good as it gets where you live, yet you think its Kmart, Target, or some other stores JOB to build a store in your area, just so you can have more stores to choose from!

That's ASSININE!

They aren't responsible for providing for your needs and wants! YOU are!
 
2005-01-14 12:06:05 PM  
misterman

"Mike. Please stop using my oxygen. I don't want to share with you anymore."

Why?

Are you afraid you might run out, and will have the inconvenience of actually having to drive a ways to get more?
 
2005-01-14 12:08:09 PM  
I like Wal-Mart just fine, Mike, you illiterate freak. They have everything I need most of the time, and I obviously have access to the internet for things that they don't have. The only biatching I see here is from you.. and you obviously haven't bothered to read anything that you're biatching about. Are we done now?
 
2005-01-14 12:31:06 PM  
misterman

"There are many, many, many small towns in which Wal-Mart is the ONLY option for anything outside of groceries. I live in such a town. The Wal-Mart here is not a supercenter (yet - they are building one right now, though). If Wal-Mart were to disappear from this town, this place would degenerate into a TRUE living hell. There is NO entertainment here. Half of the kids here are on hard drugs as it is, because there is so little else to do. Take away a place to buy DVDs and CDs and other forms of entertaining distraction, and GOD ONLY KNOWS what would happen to this little shiathole."

Is this, is this NOT "biatching"?

Or, ...how 'bout THIS:

"Mike - yeah.. i don't care about my family, friends, and roots in this town at all. I'm gonna leave it all behind and move to a city just so I can buy Target's $2.00 shampoo instead of Wal-Mart's $1.85 shampoo. Makes since to me. In fact, maybe everyone in small underdeveloped towns should make a mass exodus to the nearest city. How'd that be? "


Call that "sarcastic biatching".

NOW, you're saying you're not biatching?
 
2005-01-14 12:36:25 PM  
I saw some anti-Wal-Mart "activist" complaining yesterday that Wal-Mart didn't pay enough to support a family of four. Hint: If you don't have the job skills or the education necessary to get a job better than Wal-Mart then you shouldn't HAVE a family of four. It's called responsibility.
 
2005-01-14 12:45:44 PM  
Yes, Mike. I'm saying I'm not biatching. If you had even a 3rd grade level of reading comprehension skill, you would plainly see that my concern was NOT with what Wal-Mart is doing, but it was with what our town would do WITHOUT our Wal-Mart. Jesus Christ, dude. Go back to school or something.

The second quote you have there was me pointing out how ridiculous your suggestion was. You seem to be operating on the assumption that I, and my hillbilly friends are outspokenly oppressed by our neighborhood Wally World, when in reality, I was saying nothing of the sort.

You're really looking like a tool in this little exchange, Mike. I'd quit if I were you, before you give away the full extent of your ignorance.
 
Hiz
2005-01-14 01:10:50 PM  
If I want something unique to the region for my home, I buy locally. If I want shampoo I go to where its cheap.
 
2005-01-14 02:16:30 PM  
Yeah, DBuck, 'cuz noone ever loses their job or gets outsourced or breaks their back AFTER they have kids, no!
 
2005-01-14 03:32:47 PM  

Well FIB, if you "break your back" and your back at work at WAL-MART, seems to me your back is fine. Make the sacrifices you need to make to get a job at the level you were at before.

Hey, I did loose my job after my wife and I had our son. (Best damn thing I ever did, I love that little guy!) Twice, I lost my job. I never went and got a job at Wal-Mart or any other retail job for that mater. Know why, cause they don't pay shiat! The vast majority of retail jobs were meant for college kids and soccer moms as extra income. I on the other hand, was pissed and had had enough of the line of work I was in and took the steps to better myself (more education and training) so I would not have to go through that crap again. A little bit of individualism, something that is lost on you lefties.

The bottom line, any retail that in not managerial is not going to pay enough or provide the type of benefits needed to raise a family.

So STFU lib and lay off these "evil corporations" that provide all the "terrible things" we use, want and need everyday. I know you would rather have us all shopping at "Mother Government" but that doesn't work and has proven a failure throughout history. You don't like Wal-Mart, then don't gnikcuf shop there! Why will I, cause I can make MY hard earned dollar go farther. If I want to shop someplace else, guess what, I'll take MY money and shop there also.

Oh and another thing, vacation in your own gnikcuf state a-hole!

 
2005-01-14 05:56:08 PM  
firefly212

"beanpole
1) Depends on where you are, in Oklahoma, a good wage for that job would be around 8-9 an hour. Here in NYC, about 10-12 an hour.
2) Retail is a big industry, given the exodus of US manufacturing jobs because of price competition with low-wage and in some cases slave-labor utilizing nations, I think Wal-Mart has exacerbated the problem. (Personally I think this part is a trade policy issue for the govt. more than some wishful thinking about corporate ethics.)
3) Service isn't all the difference, if you are dirt poor and only making 5.15 an hour, the utility of even one dollar you save is really high."

------
1) Isn't the average wage for a wal-mart employee around $9/hr. (at least in this part of the county -- the south). Could anyone really call that "slave labor"? After all, if your working at wal-mart it's probably not your "chosen carrer". Your working their because your a student, older, or unskilled.
2) You're right. Let's not blame trade policy instituted by our goverment all on wal-mart. They aren't doing anything that every other large coproration isn't already doing (heck, Levis aren't even made in USA anymore)-- they just do it at a much larger scale. I know that still doesn't make it right but that's the way things are thanks to good 'ol uncle sam. Wal-Mart may be largest contributor to the problem but they aren't the only ones...
3) I've been lucky in that what both wal-mart and I sell are highly specialized products. In other words, if you're "dirt poor" you're probably not shopping with me (or them for that matter) anyway. Where I am able to compete is by offering my stuff "a little higher" than wal-mart but with a much higher level of customer service. Most people I know don't shop at wal-mart because they WANT to but because they HAVE to due to a lack of options. After all, most wal-marts are rurally located.

There will always be people who hate something or someone just because it's the largest (walmart, microsoft, GM, Phillip-Morris (don't get me started on those #@*! "truth" ads on tv about cigarettes -- and I don't even smoke) etc.). These companies are the largest because the people made them that way.
 
2005-01-14 08:12:10 PM  
Look, there are people who will demonize large, successful corporations no matter what.

They've been doing it since the day the first corporation was born.

You don't like Walmart, don't shop there. You don't like their pay scale and benefits? Don't work there. Simple enough.

Everyone roots for a mom & pop operation, all the way up until that mom & pop get successful and become a chain. Then those same people who supported it now try to knock it down.

Lastly, some people just can't be happy unless they're complaining.
 
2005-01-15 06:59:33 AM  
DBuck:

I saw some anti-Wal-Mart "activist" complaining yesterday that Wal-Mart didn't pay enough to support a family of four. Hint: If you don't have the job skills or the education necessary to get a job better than Wal-Mart then you shouldn't HAVE a family of four. It's called responsibility.


Thank you for your comment. I wish more people could believe that.


/Need a permit for a pet
//No permit needed for a child
 
2005-01-15 07:10:38 AM  
As much as people seem to think no Walmart employee really wants to be there .... many do like it.

One example:
Our area is near Great Lakes Naval Base. Many of the military families will live off base (across the border into Wisconsin) because it's not as busy/populated. Our local store has a lot of Navy wives working at it. Why? They're not desperate for the cash and many don't have to work. A lot of them like it because it gives them a "job/career", some extra spending cash, flexible hours, and the biggest factor .... Walmart is very good about transfers. When the family has to pack up and move across the country (or in some cases, other parts of the world), Walmart will assist them with researching stores in the new area, contact the new store and negotiate pay, and transfer all their info. over ASAP. They can usually start working at the new place as soon as they want (the job's waiting for them). When it's another country (yes, even the SCARY China), they will sometimes cover some or all the expense of moving them and their possessions. Walmart jets are available for any employee who transfers overseas (and in many cases regarding family emergencies, transplants/emergency medical procedures, etc.)

They're not evil .... they're just big and popular.
 
2005-01-15 07:11:47 AM  
/I really miss my employee discount card .... sigh
 
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